2015 Subaru Outback takes on the TFL Cliffhanger: Ultimate Off-Road Review

( www.TFLcar.com ) The 2015 Subaru Outback is one of the most off-road worthy crossovers that you can buy today. But how how does it do in real world testing? Introducing the TFL Cliffhanger. The Ultimate test of a car's traction, ground clearance, tires and off-road ability.
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[@jhoward103]

Yeah, according to Subaru, you should turn off the traction control for applications like this, as it limits throttle. The torque vectoring function of traction control (breaking individual tires when they slip to send power to wheels with traction) remains active, but the throttle reduction is deactivated. This is ideal for applications like hill climbing where you need a ton of throttle. Guess it's important to read the operator's manual before you post a detailed video review. Sorry TFL.

[@elopez412]

Traction control hinders hill climbing on dirt roads. I take our 13 OB dirt-roading in Pennsylvania often and always disable traction control. This past Winter I had lots of trouble climbing in deep snow with traction control 'on'. I set it to 'off' and car climbs with no/little effort. Keep in mind traction control doesn't completely disable in order to prevent/control torque steer when flooring the pedal. Let's not forget, this is an AWD not 4x4. No locking diffs and no Hi/Lo. It's a very capable car but I wouldn't take it rock crawling. However, the stock tires all-but-kills this vehicles performance. We live in the East Coast and invested in good All-Weather (not All-Season - yes, there's a difference) tires and the performance all around improved dramatically. Think about it folks, you wouldn't go hiking in dancing shoes...LOL!

[@GoodFriar77]

Having owned a 2010 Outback (2.5 CVT) and now a 2014 Forester XT and both these vehicles spending lots of time on landfills (as a work vehicle and where a dozer isn't far off if you get stuck), let me tell you this. First off - Subaru's CVT are the best in the business, period. CVTs aren't designed to handle the levels of torque that standard transmission and manuals can (mind you, you'll burn up clutches). Subaru's CVT protect themselves from burning up, or actually snapping as the CVT is pulley/chain, by limiting torque. Max torque occurs while moving from standstill to rolling, and in this case, the added incline increases that level of torque. What you were seeing was the CVT managing engine throttle to limit torque when the Outback was stuck at a stand still (the AWD/Xmode could have put more power to the rears as they weren't spinning - but there just wasn't anymore power available). I have experienced this many times. The trick is just a bit of momentum (even 5 km/hr) as this drastically reduces torque and xmode can do its thing. Subaru's AWD is top notch, add 8.7" of clearance and you've got a more than capable off-road vehicle for the majority of people and the majority of situations. But, yes - the CVT has a limitation, and that's it ability to manage torque.

[@kanes5105]

Lets not forget the CVT in the 3.6 is a heavy duty unit compared to the one in the 2.5. I've driven both the 2.5 and 3.6 as I was really reluctant at purchasing a vehicle with a CVT. After coming away from both test drives all I can say is WOW. For a daily driver on normal roads this transmission is more then up to the task of doing what it's made for. Remember that Subaru is no stranger to CVT's, besides this is the direction that many auto makers are going due to emission restrictions, weight, reliability and in the case of this vehicle comfort. Bottom line, how many people would really attempt anything like that hill in the first place? and how many would take their shinny new pick-up trucks ups such a hill? I'll tell you most likely not many. Now if I was to drive my old 98 Outback up there, it would most likely make it!

[@wanlu1325]

Kane S CVT sucks

[@HansenWHS]

Kane S So Kane， could you tell more about the difference of CVT with 2.5 &3.6 mode. Cuz I am planing go with 2.5. However not knowing this engine would be enough for this size of car.

[@GoodFriar77]

Kane S I think the 3.6 has the heavy duty CVT but can't confirm. I have the heavy duty CVT in my 14 XT Forester. It easily handles the ~250 HP/260 ft/lbs and will run 0-60 mph in close to 6.0 sec. Bottom line folks, a CVT doesn't manage torque the way a standard transmission does. It has to limit torque or else the chain will snap (there is no pressure plate). Its the only downside - otherwise, way smoother, faster shifting when in manual mode and better fuel. And when you want power, you easily modulate the throttle. Raise you hand when you're driving an standard trans and you need a bit of passing power and the stupid box throughs you down into second (6,000 rpm) and its way more than you wanted to call up. Not with a CVT, it lays in the power smoothly. And with 250 HP, there is no need to wind up like CVTs mated to under-powered engines. Note the 2.5 in the Outback is not underpowered for the car - more than enough power.

[@kanes5105]

I've taken my 1998 Outback up more difficult trails than that. It's interesting how so may comments bitch about the CVT....thats not the issue here. First, note the gigantic tree root in front of the rear left tire?? Sure the Ford would get over that with the much larger tires. All he needed to do was more over to the right about a foot! At the end of the day I'll take the Outback over any pickup truck, comfort, handling, milage, reliability.....

[@BBTthetank]

***** Sorry don't believe ya one second. No pics? No Vids? Didn't happen. Why are you looking at Subaru's if you think they're gay.

[@kanes5105]

BBTthetank Hey BBThtetank, I said my little rant to the immature turd that he is, I'm not going to waste anymore time on Tobiasson. I can't believe that I wasted time already...lol. Get a load of the grammar it's actually to the point of being comical. But I'm sure Tobiasson will continue living is someone's basement and being a TROLL.

[@BBTthetank]

Kane S Yep, same here. That's why I kept it short and sweet and to the point! Just to give the little booger a slap in the face lol.

[@kanes5105]

BBTthetank haha slap slap little Luke the puke.....hahaha

[@kanes5105]

***** haha slap slap little Luke the puke.....hahaha

[@brainanator]

Leave on X-mode, turn off traction control. Maybe that's how you had it running, maybe not. Also put it into manual mode and keep in "gear 1". Wish you would have said what settings you had the car in...

[@sic22l]

You can turn ESP off, you can't turn traction control off (Subaru uses electronically controlled AWD, it needs electronics to work). Manusal mode wouldn't change anything, CVT limits the torque at the start.

[@brainanator]

Sorry, I would say traction controls, Subaru calls it the "VDC off switch". Basically functions as the traction control switch. But X-Mode might even negate this anyway. This is mentioned in page 7-36 of the manual. There is no mention a generic ESP (because subaru calls it VDC). Seems like no-body is exactly sure what kind of gimmick X-Mode. And yes, I own a 2011 Outback. There isn't a specific reference in the manual that I can find for the 2015 to lock the CVT in "gear 1", but feel free to roam the forums, and you'll find that everyone who has ever taken their outback offroad would recommend the same.

[@davidklaffenbach902]

sic22l What makes you think CVT limits the torque?

[@legioner304]

David Klaffenbach guess that many don't understand what it (the torque) is and how it is related to the power )

[@simr2105]

***** is correct about turning off VDC. Leaving the VDC fully active was what was causing the engine torque to be limited. Turning off VDC allows fully engine power but still leaves the traction control active to brake individual spinning wheels as needed.

[@Xaluber]

Did these guys even bother to read the manual? You HAVE to turn off the traction control when driving on low traction surfaces or it'll completely kill any power from the engine to prevent wheel spin.

[@melissateter6168]

My 2015 Outback has X-MODE among other off-road features. It also sits higher off the ground (9.7 inches) than any 4 wheel SUV in it's class. It is now a true crossover. It is not a wagon, that is old thinking based on old designs. This re-fabrication is absolutely the best car I have ever owned! The 360 degree steering radius is amazing! It feels like a helicopter! I test drove Mercedes before purchasing an Outback! It beat cars with $60-$70k price tags. Go drive one! It's an underpriced vehicle with low depreciation! Absolutely, heaven to drive, snow, rain, you name it! This vehicle does not disappoint. This is my first 'Subie' and I am sold on the brand! I can see why Subaru has a cult status and high driver loyalty, 75% of owners repurchase...that says a ton about the brand and the car itself!

[@medicalrecordsinc]

***** no Subaru has 9.7 inches of ground clearance

[@glenthecarguy]

+medical records 8.7

[@medicalrecordsinc]

Subaru Guy G LO Thanks, im aware, my comment just said that there is no subaru in production that comes standard with 9.7 inch of ground clearance

[@akotr3mor]

how do you compare the standard all-season tires on the Outback with the Offroad tires of the Raptor?

[@JoeMalovich]

+Alvin Lee The tires weren't spinning, I don't think traction is a factor.

[@Toastmaster_5000]

+Joseph Malovich seeing as the traction control light was apparently blinking the whole time, that would suggest traction was the only factor. Traction control is notorious for crippling uphill climbs in every car.

[@ryanrock1948]

szolanek its a big slope it's not shown on camera iv taken my grand Cherokee on it

[@TheOringinalBRadRaps]

he seemed to let off on the first attempt when he was almost there.

[@solarfry]

@@TheOringinalBRadRaps Turn off Traction control, turn off VDC, turn off xmode. Try it again..

[@JFizoust]

Would have been a much better experiment had you used the same driver doing the same path for each vehicle. For instance, in my early 20's I got my 4x4 Jimmy stuck one night, so I called my dad to come pull me out with his truck. While waiting for him I thought I'd be nice and get the strap hooked up for him, so I tromp around in the mud hooking up so he doesn't have to. He can pull up, put it in 4 Low and pull me out and go back home. What does he do? He pulls up, parks 20 feet away and gets out to look. I tell him "is that close enough to hook up to?" He jumps in the Jimmy gets crazy left and right on the wheel while going back and forth, and drives the Jimmy about 5 feet behind his truck. He gets out and says "Is that close enough to hook up to?" The moral is, it's not the vehicle but rather the driver and how hard he's willing to be on the vehicle. Having 2 drivers isn't quit the same. Didn't the truck stay farther to the right on the 2nd run?

[@308_Negra_Arroyo_Lane]

Subaru's don't bog down like that. Did you not turn off traction control?

[@OmniscientEmina]

He did mention the traction control flashing, which means it was on.

[@bollhane]

Emina Hamulic The best thing to do when driving offroad or in deep snow is to turn off the traction control..

[@Stuka87]

X-Mode requires the traction control in order to work. You cannot defeat the traction control entirely on them. The reason it bogged down was because it doesnt have low range, which is really required for hills that steep.

[@FCFordLord]

+Stuka87 It bogged down due to traction control. It has plenty of power to spin tires, even my EJ222 with 250k miles will spin all 4 on steep hills.

[@jordanns93]

I might also add that the tires on the Ford looked pretty beefy, while stock bridgstones pretty much suck for anything like this.

[@RealWorldCarReviews]

As with other comments, turning off the traction control would have easily got the Subaru up there. It allows full revs and still keeps the system working, whereas with it on it limits the power under your foot. Even in the manual it tells you to do this in certain conditions.

[@505Fishing]

People keep forgetting the outback is not an suv but a wagon. Its still very capable as an offroad vehicle yet its not ment for climbing over logs and rock cawling, get a jeep wrangler for that. Comparing this to the raptor is comparing apples to oranges. The outback is still a great vehicle and gets better gas mileage than most suvs. While ground clearance and ride comfort are a plus, its not a truck and its not an extreme off roader.

[@Buc_Stops_Here]

The standard tires on Subaru's stink. We own a 2013 Subaru Legacy and after just 20,000 miles the tires cannot handle the snow at all. We replaced them with Michelin Premier A/S and - surprise - no problem in deep snow at all. They have to know tires make a huge difference and I am glad that they mentioned it. Subaru vehicles for their size are the best offroad cars anyone can buy.

[@Dahawk427]

But the wheels weren't spinning when it stopped so traction had nothing to do with the problem. The CVT and lack of torque prevented Outback from climbing a tree root. Pitiful.

[@Buc_Stops_Here]

@@Dahawk427 I was not commenting on this - it was my personal experience and I have the older five speed automatic, so your comment does not apply to my car - only to the newer ones.

[@curtis1951]

That was brutal to watch. Why did he bother to turn off the a/c but not the traction control? Then sits there shaking his head wondering why he's got his foot to the floor and it's not going anywhere.

[@ttommytom]

Yup. And if you own an OB, you know the stock tires need to be changed on the way home from the dealer.

[@robertwilkinson2303]

If you guys would have disabled the VDC the ECU wouldn't have killed the engine RPMs. Traction control stays active even when VDC is disabled, it allows for more wheel speed. Know how a car works before testing it. 😉

[@cBodhi]

exactly.

[@LMO169]

Exactly what I've learned the hard way in my XV

[@Scramblerkidd]

Take the Raptor and install the same tires as the Outback. Then use it as a benchmark. I would love to see the results.

[@redpilledpatriot8484]

Yeah, but when the tires arnt even spinning because of shitty CVT it doesn’t matter what tires you have.

[@cainhager9814]

Its set as a benchmark to show what a good offroad setup does on that hill, then everything after that is compared to see how good of an offroad setup it is, the bfg's are standard on the raptor, so this tests the tires other manufacturers put on their vehicles. Wouldn't be much of a benchmark if you put street tires on the raptor

[@zulkanainbaharuddin2185]

Or put the same type of tires on the outback and see.

[@Bra55Monkey]

I wonder if this has anything to do with the CVT. I'd like to see a manual have a go at it. I've seen videos of subarus w/ CVTs unable to climb simple 4" curbs from a stop.

[@jockosboy17]

ghd bfb CVT's are great for MPG but garbage in a off roader.This needs a 6 or 8 speed trans. Or just a simple manual trans.

[@memnuts]

There is no manual transmission available for the '15+Outback. Last year was the last year for the maunaul and the 4 gen outback

[@danielmiodini4109]

memnuts You can pick up a Subaru outback with a manual transmission up in Canada .

[@kanes5105]

Dan Mio It's strange that Subaru would only sale the standard in Canada considering we're only 10% of the population of the USA. Now if they would only give us the diesel.

[@yahatinda]

Kane S Could be the cost is less to give poor CANUCKS a fighting chance to afford one and pay all the taxes too.

[@HAHA.GoodMeme]

8 years later and these comments are a salt mine. God Bless TFL for not removing this video

[@alvilla701]

Can you guys bring more 4WD and AWD like the jeep cherokee and renegade, mazda cx5, Honda crv, Toyota rav4, Ford escape, I wander how good they are and compare with the raptor is good but i think is better vs. a grand cherokee cause is more like a regular car (SUV)

[@janko282]

Ive got a 2013. These "traction control systems" are designed to keep you from sliding off a snowy road. Not climb up a rocky hill. Turn the electronics off and let the awd figure it out. Ive gone up steeper and more rutted terrain in mine

[@pipatatl1]

I'm actually sold. The tires that come on the Outback are terrible even on dry roads, but that's the same with just about any small crossover. So, you have this little 4 banger boxer with 175 hp with traction control on for some reason (not sure why, but you can clearly see it in the video), and the Outback has a CVT at that and is a PZEV (in short, this vehicle gets better emissions ratings than a Toyota Prius by California's standards and tests)... plenty of 2 and 3 wheel action while still climbing, all that and so much more in a crossover that weighs about the same as a Ford Fusion. Can you imagine what this vehicle would do with the same tires as the Raptor? Yeah, a 2.5i Outback Limited starts around $32,000 and the Raptor starts at over $50,000. I've owned a Legacy, 3 Outbacks, and a WRX but tried something different and bought an Escape. I was going to try the Edge next and later something else by them, but for the price, I'm going to go back to Subaru. I'm actually going to get the Forester XT at the end of the month, and videos like this are the reason. There's no reason a little 175 hp Subaru with all season passenger tires should be able to do all it does while still getting 33 mpg, being a PZEV, having a quiet CVT with paddle shifters, electronic tail gate, etc... for about $20,000 cheaper than the offroading truck that struggled just as much. I will happily drive my "soccer mom" vehicle anyday before going anywhere near the trucks that scream "big truck compensates for my small ..." Thanks for the video! Cannot wait to trade this Escape in for another Subaru!

[@janko282]

Ive got a 2013 with grabber at2's which are very similar to bfg's. Ive gone up a lot worse than that

[@abbeykroeter]

+Brandon Sims Best comment yet. Thanks of the clearer thinking.

[@slugger12572]

I have a forester it will do the same thing till you turn the vdc off. But you can not turn it completely off. It will still modulate the brakes but it allows for much more wheel spin.

[@KJV0812]

terrible example of how to drive the outback, I have owned Subaru's in the past and I can say that turning the engine traction management off would of allow you to continue climbing the hill. The computer was minimizing the engine power output thus causing the hang up. Whenever you are off-roading especially with a Subaru you turn the traction system off so the computer can focus only on the VDC(brake locking action); the computer cannot successfully manage both especially with the hill climb. Why don't you guys next time learn about the electronics before you make a decision for the final verdict. All in all thanks for the entertaining car and truck reviews!

[@kanes5105]

Should let them use my old 98 Outback.... :)

[@KJV0812]

Yeah I hear you, throttle management system is a waste I think

[@ballisonfargo]

I am given to understand that you need to disable traction control in certain situations in order to allow some wheel spin.

[@janandee5087]

Take your traction control off and gun it. U guys ever 4 wheel before. Dam city slickers

[@NIGHTMAREuki]

+Tom D traction control does not kick in if tires are not spining, like in this case on top car was flooored but no wheelspin, just not enough power tranfered to the weeks to even break them lose

[@NIGHTMAREuki]

yes TC will make you stuck but in this case it was not activating, because tires have to spin for traction control to activate, there is no slip AT ALL not due to traction control

[@janandee5087]

+Tickle Fingers no point in trying to explain to these guys.they 4by4 in there high rise parkade.

[@cBodhi]

dude, you can tell it was activating because he was flooring it and you didnt even hear the engine...that engine should have been screaming...but it cuts off at 3500 i believe... VDC doesn't ONLY detect slippage, it does a lot of stuff; all of which are counterproductive in a test like this "VDC is Vehicle Dynamics Control, Subaru's electronic stability control system with traction control. VDC is also the name of an Outback Limited model from 2001-2004. The components of the VDC system are: Direction: uses brakes to slow down wheels to reduce spin and help control vehicle direction. Skidding: yaw and steering wheel sensors use brakes to slow down spinning wheels and re-direct power to the wheel(s) with the best traction to re-gain control. Engine power: controls engine output to slow spinning by reducing spark to cylinders to cut back power and help re-gain control."

[@NIGHTMAREuki]

+C Bodhi you must not know how traction, dtc or stability control work. they rely in abs sensors to compare wheel speed, if no tires are spinning it doesn't get activated. there is zero fucking slip on any if the tires in this case so no electronics were involved

[@sarahhunter5165]

Had the same ending with my 2013 Outback off roading at Arches. The rocks pushed the front passenger wheel back. She did make it back down and now has a new tire, struts, etc.

[@nicks2908]

what rubbish, he drove straight into the root which was half way up the wheel - its a physical impossibility to roll a wheel up a step which is 50% or greater than the wheel size. If He had inched to the right just a little it would have been straight up. offroad driving technique apparently consists only of putting your foot to the floor, not looking where you are going . . .

[@KrystalNCMA]

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you suppose to deflate the tires before crawling like that? No idea why you would leave traction control on though.

[@ArbitraryLifestyle]

I've been on this exact part of that trail a few times in my Tacoma. It's pretty gnarly and is indeed very steep.

[@shelbyvontrapp1950]

1st, turn off traction control, those traction control warning lights are telling you it's freaking out and braking all the wheel. 2nd go into manual mode and keep in it "first". You could hear the CVT straining from that not being enabled.

[@kpf8186]

This was a fun video to watch. The Raptor looks like a great truck, but costs quite of bit of money. The Outback came up a bit short compared to a dedicated ORV, but what else would you expect? Got my 2015 Outback with eyesight about 1000 miles ago. Didn't like the green color online, but in person it is very nice. Anyways......if you want to drive over tree stumps, get a Raptor, Jeep, a tank, or a LR. The Outback wasn't built for that. For me it is a snow and ice vehicle, for someone else it's for 2 track and logging trails, for someone else it is for steep and hilly climbs, and someone else lives on a bumpy dirt road. The Outback can do it all and do it with comfort. I love the CVT and I have lots of power with the 3.6. I can afford the LR, but I prefer the Subaru for value, safety, and reliablity. This is a comfy and quiet ride, lots of room front and back, plenty of techy gadgets and who cant appreciate all the seat warmers? Combined gas mileage average over the first 1000 miles for me was 25.6 mpg. What's not to like?

[@housepianist]

Even though the Subi isn't designed for that kind of terrain (the right side of the Cliffhanger), it was still pretty impressive. I'd like to see two classes of vehicles for this course - the purpose-built trucks and SUV's that should be more than capable of running up the Cliffhanger (4Runners, Land Rovers, etc) and your standard (non off-road specific) cars and SUV's with a 4-wheel/all-wheel drive set-up (any Audi Q series, Porsche Cayennes, Escapes, etc.). There are certainly a lot more of the latter vehicles to choose from but this is a really good addition to the channel. Keep it up!

[@haute39234]

I was surprised at how easily the subaru went up the "normal" side, with its little tires and -2-.-5L engine- [edit: it's a 3.6R] . I wonder if the 3.6L would have gone further up the cliffhanger, & what impact better tires would have? I really wish subaru re-engineered their engines. 170HP or w/e isn't enough for a car that large and a 2.5L engine, and the 3.6 is just so thirsty, but the numbers are better. 

[@sic22l]

Bigger engine wouldn't change anything, CVT transmission was the problem.

[@haute39234]

sic22l I don't see how you (and others) can say that so confidently. There isn't a video of them attempting the same climb with the 2.5L manual (at least I couldn't find one). Also I've seen other videos with non-CVT 2.5's struggling up normal inclines, hence why I thought an increase in torque, in the 3.6L would help. (and I just thought, being 2 miles up, wouldn't that lead to a further drop in torque numbers, hindering the outback more?). I've been reading on the torque limitations of CVTs so I get that they'll slip, so they're not great for high torque applications, but what is "high torque", certainly not 174 lb-ft. And what about the paddle shifters? Don't they help you manually select a gear ratio? (But I assume X-mode selects for higher torque ratios anyways.) I haven't seen any real world proof either, specifically taking the same cars, only with differing transmissions, and demonstrating the limitations, or lack thereof, of CVTs to geared transmissions. (Which is a perfect opportunity to match up the 2014 and 2015 subarus :D The Fast Lane Car) Perhaps I put too much confidence in subaru's engineers, but I assume they've tested their CVTs to deliver similar results to their manual transmissions, even under unconventional stresses. I mean you don't just throw a CVT into a car without making sure it can handle the power right?...

[@crabjoe]

sic22l The transmission wasn't the problem, it's the lack of a LSD or locker. X-Mode is faux LSD. It tries to send power right/left, but unlike a LSD or locker, it can't send power to both sides at once. Another problem might be how Subaru has the power ration f/r setup. Since it's climbing a hill, more power in the rear is better... From my understanding , Subaru has the OB setup at 60/40 f/r, but it can send more to the rear. I'm not sure it was sending enough power to the rear...

[@Pfshens]

crabjoe would it help to turn off traction control?

[@toddl2482]

Peter Shen Yes. Turn off VDC

[@beauknowz]

Older Subaru's with a manual transmission used a reactive system for the x-drive. There were no electronics (active) systems to interfere with thy driveline so more of the power was added to the wheels that were slipping. And more of the power was divided equally to the wheels. Pure viscous couplings at all 3 differentials is the best all wheel drive system. These electronics are cheaper & are easier on the driveline.

[@23v0lv32]

BFG on that suby and it would make it. factory tires are a joke. This is a great factory test. thanks for the video!!

[@MrKeyboardCommando]

The Outback tyres weren't suitable for the terrain. They didn't have the tread depth to bite through the dust.

[@dchawk81]

It bit the dust just fine!

[@MrKeyboardCommando]

dchawk81 That's a terrible pun !!! :-)))

[@dchawk81]

MrKeyboardCommando [e-mail]

[@dchawk81]

In all seriousness, I thought the Subie did a respectable job, all things considered. It's not like it was designed to be a rock crawler.

[@MrKeyboardCommando]

dchawk81 It did an excellent job, I was very impressed.

[@datohetfielda1]

who leaves traction control on when offroading? what you need to do on a hill climb is to maintain some speed and keep your wheels spinning.I'm not an expert but I know traction control is no good for that

[@grimakastatik]

add a 2 inch lift with ko2 all terrain tires on the outback and it wouod be good. its an advebture vehicle and is rugged.

[@kevinhill3693]

these guys make a Subaru look bad in any situation

[@ryanhaines7682]

Because it is bad 😂😂😂 the new Subaru wont even climb gold mine hill ..they had to literally go around the hole. ..when a Mitsubishi...did it... people say it's the cvt..and that's a load of shkt..cause again .Mitsubishi..has a cvt and it did it just fine

[@ryanhaines7682]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZvQep6bZZZ-p6c

[@ryanhaines7682]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXm7l3evZd2Gpa8

[@brianzupancic6039]

@@ryanhaines7682 weak

[@rsmnh7892]

They are idiots

[@rockthesix1679]

Xmode works best without traction control. Also, when in Xmode, maintain throttle position when you think you are stuck. Give the software time to figure out how to best distribute power. Love your channel, but, this example was really not thought out.

[@digitalemotionfilms]

I will climb that hill for you in my 2011 Manual Outback - The driver obviously has little or no experience in that vehicle because I have climbed terrain similar to that and had no issues with it. Was Traction control on or off ? Thats the trick. Your Ford also has a very unfair advantage with the tyres it has on

[@ianh7133]

My wife’s Outback was on solid ice and i turned off traction control and I drove up a steep hill from a standing start. I could only make it in my lifted YJ with new BFG Duratrac 33x12,5x15 with a good solid run at it and I spun nearing the top.

[@tristansvaghi7675]

Hey, i have an idea... the Subaru outback is a great car for the weekend warrior. mountain Biking, Surfing a remote spot..And you can drive it the office on Monday and not look like you are in Toorak Tractor. Could you try the Cliff Hanger again and put some decent tires on it... I would love to see if it makes a difference... :) As i will be buying one of these when i get back to Australia from China in September. Cheers, and great channel guys... love your work. Tristan.

[@navideol2644]

Go buy its a grt8 trk

[@opaextreme9282]

off roading 101, sure you need momentum, but you don't just gun it and hope to bounce over everything.. larger items blocking your way, need slower crawl over or you'll damage the car.. cvt being able to handle less torque or not, put in lower gear, turn off TC and go slow with bit momentum.... tires make difference as does air pressure if going over tough spot..momentum is more for uphill that are slippery, gravely, etc.. but big obstacles you climb over... I joined an off road group with my santa fe using awd lock went over what this video showed no problem .. i did air down to 23psi for some areas

[@wtrdogg20]

Subaru wont canibalize their own product line... The model that is suposed to be able to deal with a road like that is the Forester.... The outback is capable of some off road, but at certain point... At the end of the day, the Outback is a family state wagon vehicle. The Forester includes X-Mode, which is a system specifically designed for Off Road situations.

[@chickenceiling]

outback has x-mode too

[@wtrdogg20]

Well, then they did not use it... As you can see, they did not even mention it. That explains many things...

[@TFLcar]

wtrdogg20 Thanks for the comment. We used x-mode and we mentioned it in the video. It didn't help. The traction control system cuts power to the wheels and the car lost forward momentum and got as far as you can see in the video.

[@wtrdogg20]

Hmm, Thats really interesting... That makes me think the X-Mode in the Outback is not as effective as in the Forester...

[@brentb4227]

I climb stuff like this in a WRX lifted on forestor struts. Basically a forestor XT. Does well, but can bog down in a manual, have to launch at 4k sometimes

[@vicwiseman6038]

Okay, two things here, 1) you should have turned off traction control and 2) Stop steering all the way to the left. Yanking the wheel like that while having traction control on will pretty much kill all the torque going to the wheels.

[@KentuckyRanger]

Your approach angles were all wrong with the Outback. Plus, you didn't turn traction control off...

[@andrewsimpson1951]

Why didn't you engage the low range on the outback like you did on the Ford pickup?

[@cowanr775]

Subaru has some explaining to do. They have claimed for a long time that their front and rear and center diffs are limited slip fully locking meaning we should see all 4 wheels spinning shortly after the point of no traction. Didn't see that at all. This is a nice looking vehicle but its off road prowess is seriously questionable and seemingly overstated on the part of Subaru.

[@joeallfrontsquiet8797]

Just got me one of these '18 used Subaru Outbacks. Gonna put on a lift kit with offroad tires. Can't wait to see the trail results.

[@UnapologeticGeek]

the Outback could really use a low range transfer case because the CVT by itself is worthless. when i test drove the 4 cylinder a week ago it would barely move off the line on flat pavement with foot all the way to the floor - that CVT is just that bad. i really wanted to get this car until i test drove it but it was just beyond hopeless - that CVT doesn't allow the engine to put power down until you hit about 30 mph.

[@jtafoya88]

Get the 6 cylinder

[@UnapologeticGeek]

juan tafoya i called 4 different dealerships to test drive the 6 cylinder but none of them had one available. they all said that the 6 cylinder is not popular. also the Outback in this video is the 6 cylinder ( you can see the 3.6R logo on the right side of the back in some shots ) and it still couldn't power over that branch. i just accepted that if i want performance i will need to look elsewhere.

[@jtafoya88]

It would've climbed up there with some BfGoodrich all terrain tires, those it used are street tires

[@MrJt3451]

I agree! So pissed all these companies using the cvt, They SUCKKKKKK

[@UnapologeticGeek]

CVT is the cheapest type of automatic transmission that can get good MPG - that's why most affordable cars now use them. the same companies put real transmission in their premium brand vehicles ( example: honda vs acura ).

[@fredmoller1675]

But you have to admit, the Suby is the "BEST" awd car out there, I'm hooked!!!

[@haroldbeauchamp3770]

Lmao. No. Just stop. You’re embarrassing yourself

[@oddities-whatnot]

@@haroldbeauchamp3770 it IS the best car out there because its the best all rounder for the money. Carry on with whatever inferior car you probably have :)

[@landon818]

You'd get a more accurate benchmark if it were the same driver. Hate it when videos like this use different drivers and then say they have the best results...

[@ntvinternationalnews4591]

Agreed 👍

[@Dahawk427]

God himself could not have driven the Subaru up that hill. The open diffs, CVT, and weak motor = fail

[@glsracer]

Just goes to show how important A/T or A/T-S tires are for driving up steep grades on dirt or other loose surfaces. Now I kind of want to go out there and test my XC60. I put Geolandar A/T-S tires on my last XC70 which is not really possible with the 20s on the new XC60s... Geolandars take the capabilities to a new level, just make sure to keep DSTC in Sport or off.

[@strategicbushcraft6391]

Test the BF Goodrich AT's on the Subaru please. You will get a lot of views with it!

[@tinker1148]

I know you guys refuse to turn the traction control off but it really makes all the difference. When wheelspin is detected traction control takes away engine power to stop wheelspin but it also takes away momentum. I have a 2010 subaru forester and have tested TC both on and off and know this for a fact. I think it would make it if you turn TC off thereby having all engine power available. :-)

[@Donmarcopotvin]

Why don't you put more agressive tires when you do offroad?? i would

[@Donmarcopotvin]

Jake McCoy is right but I am going to add this Thanx for the clarification.

[@jaykae3952]

They dont have enough money to put off road tires on every car they review

[@froshmasta]

As a Subaru guy (I'm on my 5th one now) this was pretty interesting. I think that was a fairly good showing for what is essentially an all-weather road car. I'd like to see a new Forester try that with the shorter wheelbase and x-drive system... or even some meaty winter tires. :) Thanks as always for the consistently good content, guys.

[@ItsJosh]

Best in class AWD? I seen a video where a legacy couldn't back over a curb because of its useless CVT. A 96' Civic climbed the curb no problem.

[@crabjoe]

That issue wasn't caused by the CVT. It was caused by the the nanny that doesn't allow full engine power and a rear gear ratio. Subaru correct this in later models with a lower reverse rear. BTW, this problem hasn't only happened to Subaru. I've seen full sized Ram HD trucks have the same issue.

[@ItsJosh]

Thats because its a ram.

[@UnapologeticGeek]

crabjoe whatever it is - it's crap. i can't believe crap like this Subaru is even sold out side of India or China. i couldn't believe how bad it was when i test drove it. if you're even thinking about this car - test drive it - you will not be thinking about it any more.

[@Drewrob99]

Link plz

[@kinglol20]

Unapologetic Geek subaru doesn't even sell in india... Crap like this? Crap like this made it across the outback no worries. Sure the cvt isn't ideal but its a subie, it gets shit done.

[@The_Osprey]

I like the original testing protocols you guys have come up with. The Ike Gauntlet and now the Cliffhanger will be stars.

[@jameswisrik1714]

Nathan and Roman... I like watching you guys most of the time! But this review is so stupid. As any off-road person knows...if you can't get over a tree trunk...cut it into pieces or drive around it. You also fail to realize after using all the gas in the Raptor to climb this hill...you would then have to walk home. Possibly due to the Raptor running out of gas, frame bent, issues w/ transmission and suspension. I'll take the Subaru Outback, XV, Forrester, WRX, STI, drive around the trunk and have plenty of gas to get me home and headache free.

[@saabaru420]

My buddys forester would've done and we have it's cvt as well we just had to turn off traction control and it went over all kinds of articulated grades

[@gregarioussolitudinist5695]

Great music track. Turn it up LOUDER so that it drowns your car review out completely. Better yet? Lose the music.

[@billyd1773dz]

Have you turn off the powercut VDC/TCS via VDC button? Its look like the vdc sense slip, then try to cut the power...

[@joshgrami]

To everyone saying turn the traction control off: the TC isn't the problem -- the CVT is bogging down. If you would have done this in the previous generation (back when CVT wasn't the only option...) with the 6-speed to the automatic in the 3.6R, it would have made it up just fine. Subaru's with CVT's suck. Period.

[@KJV0812]

What you have said makes no sense, cvt in of itself actually is a much more simple design than a automatic transmission. Second of all the computer was cutting the power output tothe engine to reduce wheel spin. Btw, jatco makes cvts for just about every manufacturer: Mitsubishi, Chrysler, Nissan, Subaru etc. Nissan owns the brand, so it would be nissans problem. Study the facts first; I've owned many brands with cvts, autos and manuals. Cvts are more fuel efficient and you are stuck with five or six fixed gear ratios.

[@davidklaffenbach902]

Nick Duffy It's not a Jatco transmission. The Lineartronic CVT is made by Subaru in Japan (in the same factory that makes the engines) and uses a chain from Luk (Schaeffler) in Germany.

[@joshgrami]

Nick Duffy Simple, maybe. But it's definitely not designed for ANYTHING beyond driving on a flat road. It's absolutely useless anywhere else. Real hardware > Software trying to imitate hardware. And no, the computer wasn't cutting power to stop wheel spin. There are other videos on KZbin of other CVT-equipped Subarus that have problems backing over a 4" curb. These are the reasons why you will never see anything designed for more than commuting equipped with a CVT. They just can't handle abuse or strain. Old Subarus would have blasted up that hill with no problem. I've owned 96' Legacies, a '93 Impreza, an '08 Outback, a '10 Outback, 3.6R (only model that came with an automatic), and a '14 Crosstrek 6 speed. Any of them would have made it up this hill with no problem. CVT's are great for fuel economy, but nothing else.

[@mmiller1188]

Exactly. The CVT also doesn't allow you to back over curbs (look for this on youtube). Also - the CVT in Subarus is a Subaru design manufactured by JATCO

[@MrJt3451]

i agree ja subaru ruined themselves with the cvt

[@truthTransport]

In the end, cvt transmissions are not made for more extreme off road trails like the one on the right as shown but they can however handle simple gravel flatter roads, but we all know that they are not built for any kind of off road use anyway...

[@Noah_E]

There sure is a lot of hate for the CVT on here. Have any of you actually driven a Subaru with one or are you just spouting off out of ignorance and resistance to change? I own one and it does just fine with the traction control OFF. Traction control is the problem, not the the CVT. CVTs are the future. Get over it.

[@kanes5105]

Totally agree! I've ordered a 2015 Outback limited 3.6 with Eyesight...now waiting. Before I decided I was sceptical about the CVT due to all the negative remarks that I hear around the net and so on. I was looking for a replacement for my old 98 Outback, but I need a car based vehicle. I don't plan on doing anything crazy, nothing beyond logging roads here on Vancouver Island. I spend many years in the military and have done my share of off-roading with equipment much larger then a "pick-up truck" ...lol. So now I would prefer something comfortable, quiet, reliable, and safe (no more vehicles with large calibre guns) Subaru fits that perfect, and besides I'm a return customer.

[@kpf8186]

Got my 2015 Outback 3.6 about 1000 miles ago. Beautiful. LOVE the CVT. Won't have another car without it. If you want to drive over treestumps, get a Jeep. Outback isn't built for that. Outback is the best all around, do it all vehicle out there that the masses can afford. I can afford a Land Rover, but the value is in the Subaru. What an awesome vehicle. BTW, I didn't like the green color so much looking online, but in person.....I get compliments everyday.

[@kanes5105]

Kevin Fogarty nice to hear something positive about the CVT, when I drove both the 2.5 and 3.6 I was pretty much sold. I also considered the green (fav colour) but it only comes in the light interior which is nice but won't work for the dogs unfortunately. Easier to clean drool off of a dark colour then light colour.

[@geochafg]

I think that cvts self preservation kicks in! if it had a manual transmission it would have definitely spin a couple of wheels. Here there is no wheel spin which means that vdc is "offline"

[@Jesco2841]

I have same car, and would have same problems with TCS on. Turn that off, and it actually sends power to where its supposed to go.

[@SolarWinds63]

How can a vehicle with street tires get over a deep root. Seems like they purposely got it stuck... KZbin has videos of Subarus going over worse conditions with less HP... Nobody would have went that way directly over the deepest part of the root... That was the wrong approach...

[@kanes5105]

Yes I totally agree, no car would get past the root stuck in front of the back wheel. This whole thing is wrong. Then again we're comparing an off-road vehicle with a car, I've never got my Outback stuck in the 16 yrs of driving it. But have seen a number of SUV's and pickups shinny side down in the ditches when the weather turns nasty.

[@zacharybrown1387]

Fun video. Why did you not try it without the X-Drive turn on, turn the traction control off and just let her rip? I am an automotive technician, and would have liked to have seem how it compared. thanks! 1. with X-Drive 2. with out X-Drive 3. without traction control. this would give you a lot of data about what kind of terrain Subaru programed the PCM to deal with, and the kind of wheeling they expacted that system to helpout. Thanks again zac b

[@cwehbe]

Hey guys, did you have the traction control off? It's supposed to be off.

[@roman21000]

would it of gone further if the traction control was off?

[@palangicdino]

Raptor beat Outback?! I ll alert the media!

[@wecanallski]

Indeed guys. You need to turn the traction control off when off road in X-mode. The traction control will not help in this situation. would have been also nice if you did all of that twice, next time with semi off road tyres on the outback:)

[@get2steve]

This review is hugely flawed! All that was tested in this was how big the tires were. The rut that stopped the Subaru didn't stop the Ford, because the profile of the tire was a lot bigger on the Ford. The rut was probably 15% of the Ford, but 40-50% of the Outback.

[@superman7890]

obvious question, but did you turn off traction control in the outback?

[@insomniacryan9916]

Ultimate test with traction control. How? How can you say, repeatedly, "traction control light is flickering at me" and not make the connection that it needs to be turned off? Ya know, with the button. The traction control button. The one that has come standard in almost every car for the last twenty years.

[@Thirsty_Fox]

Seems like there was a lot of weight on the rear right tire but it wasn't getting much power (no loss of traction). I really think a locking center diff would have done wonders in this since the rear wheels really needed the power but weren't getting it.

[@msiley]

Turn the traction control off. Traction control will reduce power when you start slipping.

[@CyGuy]

SUBARU IS AMAZING I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO THE NEW MODEL OUTBACK 2015!

[@notasolution]

4Runner could do that pretty easily as well

[@erice5215]

Ya cause the 4runner is a beast

[@notasolution]

Eric E Amen

[@notasolution]

Dominic Garcia X3

[@notasolution]

***** damn right

[@blairwilliams136]

Kenny M hells yes, I'd love to run my 96 runner' up that!

[@eterlizzi]

I heard it works better w traction control off in x mode

[@jman5002007]

They need to turn off traction control when off roading.... These guys are suppose to be experts?!?

[@BigpoppaKC]

Yah I know

[@glenthecarguy]

xmode does that for them

[@vominator]

Justin King tried it both ways. did you watch the full video?

[@scottcieslik269]

I have driven this trail with my 2006 Outback XT 5sp Manual with Yoko Geolander AT-S tires (a mild All-Terrain tire) it had less trouble and it does not have "X-Mode". The CVT has weakened the Outback's off-road ability for sure.

[@liamsnor]

should have turned traction control off

[@optimusprime2223]

I am amazed how we are talking about tires and CVT's and how these are elements working against the Suby. It's not the tires, if it were the tires they would be spinning helplessly scrambling for grip but they are not, the wheels simply can't turn despite full throttle application which means they have the grip. The CVT apart from being super annoying and sounds like an egg beater is not the problem either. (Although CVT's are expensive and not very efficient compared to 8-9-10 speeds and dual clutches and can't handle high torque engines which is why you see them only is small cars with week engines). The problem here is that there simply isn't enough torque delivered to the wheels by the AWD. We would see a Jeep Patriot with 4 cylinder engine and CVT with the freedom drive II 4x4 make it up the right side of the trail where the AWD Suby couldn't. And the Patriot uses a CVT and the 2.4 makes something like 185 hp, much less than the 3.6 H6. The new Renegade would also make it up but I am using the Partiot as an example because it is the one using a CVT. So not a traction problem, not a transmission problem, there simply isn't enough torque being sent to the wheels typical of all awd systems. This is where you need a 4x4 system. There was a day I liked Subies a lot, but today almost everyone else has much better AWD systems such as disconnecting front and center and read prop shafts and seamless engagement of torque split and nicer interiors and quiet cabins and luxury soft touch materials and more substantial interiors and better fuel economy or better towing ... and Subies still use such old technology and are super expensive and still have their share of problems. You would think that after 40 years of making that flat 2.5l engine, that they would have solved this expensive head gasket failure that plagues these engines. Anyway Suby has their fans and they will continue buying these products, but not me, they don't represent the best value for me anymore.

[@joshgrossman7444]

The Outback didn't make it up here b/c they had ESC on. If you had that on in your Patriot you would have had the same result. So all of that typing and you didn't even touch on what the real problem is. And the Patriot is a junk car, poorly built, and not cheapened out to be rugged but cheapened out to save them money when they sell you a crap vehicle. Initial quality is so horrendous I'm surprised that anyone would actually sign a purchase agreement on those things. The only reason it's still around is because they sell it in mass fleet droves to Enterprise, Hertz, and Avis. It's a cheapened out small SUV based on a Caliber platform and the rental car companies make money hand over fist charging a medium SUV rental rate.

[@FrankMcEnnis]

LEarn to drive offroad before doing offroad test!

[@claytosrepublic7858]

Not bad considering they were running 'street civies' for tyres. I put J-Trax All Terrains on my Forester; and it handled tracks like that no trouble at all.

[@apalsenberg]

Very impressive nevertheless. Would be interesting to see how far the Forester gets.

[@Dahawk427]

Impressive? It lacked enough torque to climb over a tree root.

[@emmalab02]

Pretty sure a 2012 3.6R would have gotten up; it had a viscous coupling center diff with a 45F/55R power distribution that could go up to 90/10 in either direction if necessary and a limited-slip rear diff. I'm looking for a station wagon again and am kicking myself for getting rid of mine back in 2014.

[@rekercher]

Get.... off... the... gas....

[@agpawpaw5912]

I’m wondering if Prius awd can drive uphill on left side. Probably in real that hill much steeper than we can see on video

[@BeachJedi101]

There's just no substitution for ground clearance, locked diff, and knobby tires.

[@kindpanda1075]

Why didn't you turn the traction control systems off? Is there no way to do that?

[@janko282]

You can. I have a 13. For whatever reason these fools didnt turn it off. The owners manual specifically tells you in rugged offroad terrain to turn it off

[@abbeykroeter]

+Frank Janko Could be they wanted the Raptor to look good anyway. Wouldn't be beyond people to do that. The guy driving the Ford actually said "You can probably do this in a Jeep, etc..." which I found hilarious. Before the Raptor, or excluding custom/modified Ford pickups, you wouldn't see them outperforming a Subaru on many traction tests. My '83 Subaru (albeit much lighter, and with duel range 4WD...) left many a pickup looking bad on climbs, even with snow.

[@oscarwildeghost]

Ultimate offroad? My driveway is worse than that "hill". And seven minutes of the usual goofiness from these two clowns blabbering on with the Ford before you do this death defying test? I'd like to know how they keep their jobs.

[@VishnuRajam4x4]

Could not agree more. Lol. What a joke.

[@brandon1157]

+oscarwildeghost do you know what 2 miles above sea level does to a car. less oxygen = less power

[@TJNam]

lol check the left rear tire on both cars... f150 didnt go to deep in the root side. just went easy way...

[@Soul-Plasma]

This is a worthless review as they did not turn off traction control.

[@freedomjesse]

Uh, why didn't you turn the traction control OFF, so the tires would spin?

[@MrSimon911]

What a crap of test. It's like walking on snow with dancing shoes. Subaru goes wherever you want, it just needs a driver who is capable of off-road driving and not just "dude, pedal is on the floor".

[@997speedy]

did you try with the traction control off? still it did pretty well, and im sure it would have made it without a cvt