2016 OB Challenge: Corey Deuel vs Justin Bergman

[@skibbles827]

I like watching Justin play. One of my favorite players of all time. I saw him play for the first time in 2006 at the BCA National Amateur 8 ball Championship. It was the final match and he was on the losers side. It was alternate break and he won the first set and lost the 2nd set by one game. After the game I went and looked at the tournament standings to see where he lost a match and he lost to the same guy that he played in the final match but there was no score. So Justin must have missed the game entirely. I asked him and he said he overslept. I always hoped he would make it to the pros and I'm glad he did. He has such a perfect smooth clean stroke. His movements around the table may feel slow when your watching on tv, but when you see him play in person it's completely different.

[@Dweller777]

I was there, too. I know Justin. It was a mistake that he was playing in the open. Many of the players were upset that he somehow got into the open, so it was suspected that there may have been a side-deal going on when he overslept for his hotseat match. Unlikely, but still.. makes ya think. :) It's also unlikely that a player that deep in a large tournament would just oversleep for a hotseat match.. hmm..

[@skibbles827]

@@Dweller777 That's crazy!! He seems like a pretty good dude. Hope he's doing well!!

[@jeffglaza8318]

Justin Bergman has a great quality in that he doesn't care or think about what anyone else thinks.

[@matternst5310]

I love this matchup for the simple fact that I'm practicing with both of these break styles and I get to see the pluses and minuses with each style over a bunch of quick games. ALSO, both of these guys are awesome for the sport. Great video!

[@jesusislord9116]

For sure I prefer Justin's because of the consistency of the big 90 Vs Corey's break the 90 is less consistent I'm 50 ball player meaning I can easily make it to Pan am if I wanted to

[@godjhaka7376]

​​@@jesusislord9116ummm .... Just keep getting on your knees and praying to Jebus.

[@seaglin]

2:07:10 - The center of the cue ball is clearly behind the line making it perfectly legal. He does push the envelope a few times during this match but not by more than the slightest fraction of an inch. It is the center of the cue ball that matters; not the front edge.

[@YayComity]

Agreed. The base/center of the cue ball has to be behind the head string, not the whole ball. See my reply to dave2783 where I quote all of the actual rules.

[@YayComity]

Also notice that at 2:09:30 the commentator again complains where Corey places the cue ball, but it's actually Justin breaking.

[@skibbles827]

@@YayComity Corey's break was legal, this was not

[@whitelfner4582]

All the winny wimps who don't like Justin's slow play are amazing to me. I wish he was willing to fly to events. I'm amazed that you don't want to see arguably one of the top 5 maybe top 2-3 players in the US playing one pocket, 8B, 9B...

[@suewoo5]

I love JB he's a tactician. But he's too slow w out the clock. He can play fine w the clock so that goes to show its deliberate slow play. Again I love him that's why I'm watching it now haha I just constantly hit fast forward 😂

[@mikehuffman4456]

There are so much respect for each other and such fun game! ❤🎉

[@caseysrodeo14]

Justin Bergman is a Monster!!!!!

[@marie568ok5]

What a beautiful table

[@erickjanes4122]

As are you!

[@ethanpatel9829]

@@erickjanes4122 She's a beautiful table?

[@stevenm6200]

@@erickjanes4122 real smooth🥲

[@Kentucky_Blue]

Justin's going to wear his shoulder out with all these practice swings.

[@bryanbarnes8997]

Corey moved from Philly and lived with dee Adkins and the came into sportsman's billiards cbus ohio and dominated.Corey wasnt old enough to drive when he was busting up the house pros all over.good times

[@clicgear100]

Nothing like a couple pool commentators to tell us how the game never unfolds.

[@dustinp26]

They're just there to smack their fucking lips around. I can't imagine having that little awareness, fucking obnoxious half in the grave mfs

[@SDMF3076]

Justin Bergman looks like one of the vampires from Buffy

[@RajeshJustaguy]

I would have been pissed if I was playing a guy who took this long.

[@daved2783]

As I understand it, the placement of the ball Behind the head string is measured from the base of the ball resting on the cloth. A good portion of the cue would be past the line but the ball placement still be correct because the base (where it contacts the table) was not past the line.

[@dynofx1132]

true for determining if a ball is legal to shoot, the cue ball needs to be entirely behind the line on break according to BCA rules

[@YayComity]

Correct. The commentator doesn't understand the rule about placement of the cue ball behind the head string for the break. The actual rule is that the base of the ball (center) has to be behind the head string. That is common to all rule variations with the possible exception of informal "bar rules" which vary by region and bar. The reason that there may be some confusion (apart from assumptions based on bar rules) is that the wording is ambiguous in the BCA, WPA, CSI and BCAPL rules. They state that: "3.3 Break Shot (a) The cue ball begins in hand behind the head string." and "Break Requirements 1. You begin the break with ball in hand behind the head string." Some people read that to mean the whole ball has to be behind the head string. But all those rules include a definition for the position of a ball: "8.13 Position of Balls The position of a ball is determined by the projection of its center vertically downward onto the playing surface. A ball is said to be placed on a line or spot when its center is placed directly over that line or spot." and "Position of Ball When a ball is resting on the bed of the table, its position is determined by its base. " The APA rules clarify it better: "3. BREAKING A player must break from behind the head string ... The cue ball’s point of contact with the table is used to determine if it is behind the head string." And the UPA rules also make it clear: "3.0 LEGAL BREAK SHOT For the break shot to be legal, the breaker (with the base of the cue ball placed anywhere behind the head string)..." If any of Corey's cue ball placements were too far forward, it was by a tiny amount that is hardly discernible on the video. The main issue is that the commentator doesn't understand the rule, but Corey, Justin, and the referee do.

[@davidparker8475]

Justin is a tough opponent to play. His time between shots is excessive. Still like him for the Mosconi Cup.

[@wizardmack3551]

The audio is too low, or my ears are really bad, lol.

[@phillipwilliams2249]

I was watching game whole time, and not listening to the stupid banter about the clothing..but jay rattles on about the clothing all thru coreys runout, then on into coreys next runout..then when he finaly shuts up about clothes he has the moronic statement "Im not sure thats the right score" saying justin was up more. I dont think i can take commentators much more except ken shuman or jeremy jones because those 2 never screw-up.

[@zgoosekeeper]

I noticed that too. These guys are idiots. Unprofessional.

[@YayComity]

Great comment. I have to agree that Jeremy Jones is a good role model.

[@markpawlowski4863]

Bergman is excruciatingly slow. Deuel is obviously not happy with pace of play.

[@tomshaw661]

is that a bar table?

[@davidblagg2576]

Anyone notice how the balls moved the magic rack on the break after 3 to 3

[@georgemcnulty4691]

8 ball on a bar table against pros like this is a delicate game. One wrong move and your either cooked, or atleast about half way closer to being cooked.

[@黃柏翰-g7q]

can someone explain what is the number below ? what is FargoRate

[@danny_5283]

The number below is their rating for the current match. FargoRate is a overall rating for all of their tournament play (or as much as possible)

[@alvarozapata8972]

How about the T-Shirt and the 1 ball? 50:32

[@Rickbearcat]

I went to that time in the match and I don't see what it is that you are seeing.

[@lastwordindicator]

I really like Bergman's game, but I think this is the last time that I'm going to watch him play, unless it has a 30 second time clock.

[@raymondphillips7107]

He makes Ralph soque look like Earl Strickland

[@hunchemlnarik]

Fucking unwatchable

[@jameshopkins4460]

he's like watching paint dry, it's going to happen eventually, but you might fall asleep first

[@chasingfear666]

1:49:37.. Is it just me or is Corey's cue warped.. settles in when he's racking. Guess it doesn't matter when you can shoot like that!

[@chromezify7182]

The lens curve the image a bit

[@YayComity]

Good observation. Yeah, it rocks back and forth and settles. It might be from the electrical tape on the wrap.

[@memisahinguler5274]

Can someone tell me what the OB CHALLANGE is and for what it stands?

[@RockSpoon123]

OB is a cue brand. They make low deflection shafts. This is just their sponsored event.

[@TodaysTomSawy3r]

We need more pro action on the 7ft Diamond tables

[@Bahamaspete]

Thanks Corey. I saw a friend of mine using the very same cheat ;) When I confronted him he played crazy as if he didn't know what he was doing. Slick! Lol

[@RajeshJustaguy]

what cheat?

[@zgoosekeeper]

What matters is where the cue ball contacts the felt.

[@YayComity]

As many have pointed out, the actual rule is that the base of the ball (center) has to be behind the head string. That is common to all rule variations with the possible exception of informal "bar rules" which vary by region and bar. In an informal setting at a bar where your average Joe has never played in a league or tournament, it's best to keep the cue ball fully behind the head-string to avoid conflict. But a pro playing another pro in an officiated event would expect to be able to follow the actual rule without being defamed by an ignorant commentator. It's ok to question, but a commentator should have some humility and look up the rule. The reason that there may be some confusion (apart from assumptions based on bar rules) is that the wording is ambiguous in the BCA, WPA, CSI and BCAPL rules. They state that: "3.3 Break Shot (a) The cue ball begins in hand behind the head string." and "Break Requirements 1. You begin the break with ball in hand behind the head string." Some people read that to mean the whole ball has to be behind the head string. But all those rules include a definition for the position of a ball: "8.13 Position of Balls The position of a ball is determined by the projection of its center vertically downward onto the playing surface. A ball is said to be placed on a line or spot when its center is placed directly over that line or spot." and "Position of Ball When a ball is resting on the bed of the table, its position is determined by its base. " The APA rules clarify it better: "3. BREAKING A player must break from behind the head string ... The cue ball’s point of contact with the table is used to determine if it is behind the head string." And the UPA rules also make it clear: "3.0 LEGAL BREAK SHOT For the break shot to be legal, the breaker (with the base of the cue ball placed anywhere behind the head string)..."

[@jerryryanto5729]

Why Corey Deuel didnt join USA team at Mosconi cup this year ?

[@eternalhour]

What happened to Ken Shuman?

[@MikeyD22]

Aaron Stanley He was too insightful and interesting to listen to so they replaced him with these two blowhards.

[@lstone234]

Ken is an idiot know it all. Whose mouth sounds annoy everyone. Glad he is not here.

[@phillipwilliams2249]

@@lstone234 evidently jim kane has no self confidence so he runs down people who do, so happens im a player and can appreciate that ken is correct in 99 percent of what he says, as a matter of fact jeremy jones is the only commentator in kens league. of course jim kane wouldnt know that because he cant play pool worth a crap, but he can tell you all how to play with dolls or jump rope, jim make all of us happy and move your dumb ass out of country.......boy.

[@tyarnold4088]

Can't hear the video

[@jlarrytention4442]

Let's get a shot clock on this guy.

[@spartanical]

Ughh... there's nothing worse than commentators competing to demonstrate who has the most knowledge. They're either piggybacking the other's comment like it's suddenly their own or they're flat out talking over the other like they're the only one who knows anything. If this is what they're going to do, I'd rather they didn't say a single word other than to talk about the players background, style, special abilities or stats.

[@leighatkins22]

The Bergman guy mustn't have been able to afford a full haircut so he got that stupid thing instead... He takes forever to plan out his shots and acrually take them - "a good game is a fast game" is all i've ever heard from anyone who has to watch ANY game. Obviously he's an amazingly and truly talented player but his constant stick pumping and general table behaviour reminds me of all the worst things i've seen about my own ADHD... for some strange reason watching JustIn creates anxiety in me while Corey's style is so much more soothing and smooth...

[@foxbat2223]

I agree, Bergman takes too long,....He needs a "clock" put on him.

[@vincent6692]

thanks for sharing these videos. But man these announcers suck. They step on each other and can't keep track of the score.

[@zgoosekeeper]

They were just plain awful.

[@YayComity]

And they don't know a very basic rule, and out of ignorance portray a great player like Corey as if he's a cheater. Not to mention being so absorbed in trying to save a few bucks on a jacket as to get confused about the game count. Alzheimers alert.

[@kevinbeazy]

Oh my God commentate on the shot, not try to predict every fucking shot. Damnit do these commentators not know how everyone loathes pool commentary?

[@dragecardelean]

nice game

[@phillipwilliams2249]

ive been playing in local tournys for years upon years, and the rule has always been ( just prior to break ), "part in all in" in other words if any part of the ball is in the kitty then all is considered in the kitty, ive never heard any differant in these pro rules, untill jay continually cried about corey here. so jay please shut up..unless you can quote a rule here.

[@dynofx1132]

when determining if a ball is legal to shoot depends on the apex of the ball. when breaking the entire cue needs to be behind line. BCA rules

[@YayComity]

The base/center of the cue ball has to be behind the head string, not the whole ball. See my reply to dave2783 where I quote all of the actual rules.

[@kyleknight3001]

What size table is this?

[@kats1190]

Kyle Knight 7 ft

[@adamflores5027]

Bar bizzle

[@OscarBenben]

I'm excellent at it but in France everybody plays blackball unfortunately, nobody really masters US 8 or 9 pool ball unfortunately

[@actionhunter93]

I like Deuel he's a great player and a classy guy, but damn do I hate second ball breaking in 8 ball. It creates too many freaking clusters.

[@eternalhour]

Nearly impossible to control the cue ball also.

[@marshalcraft]

Yet Deuel does pretty well with it, not a single scratch the entire match accept for bergmen on 2nd to last game. Also, think only 1 dry break the whole match.

[@marshalcraft]

Deuel kind of gave up or fell appart, or got mentally exhausted right at about the 30th match.

[@fendermender65]

Yes and has a tendency to leave the cue ball stuck on the bottom rail a lot without an easy shot.

[@MikeyD22]

If any match was in dire need of a shot clock, this one would be the one.

[@samphilipp4997]

You saying that would make me think that it would take you 5 seconds to make the wrong shot. Don't think you are better than anyone at 8 ball on a 7', let alone a Diamond at the pro level.

[@MikeyD22]

Well I had four matches against Master level players last night and broke and ran the two that I broke in and ran out another on an opponent's dry break, so I'm okay. Hundreds of comments throughout the years have complained about Bergman's incredibly boring slow play. Sorry to hear that your life is so insignificant that you have time to sit and watch this shit without better things to do. It's just 8ball not brain surgery. Careful making judgment on someone else's playing ability - especially someone who could embarrass you on either size table.

[@georgepotter353]

I think jump cues should be banned. Player throws a great safe on you, or you put yourself in a bad spot... Just grab the ol' short cue, jump over a ball and out you go. That's bullshit. Keep the cueball on the table and kick at it if you're in a tight spot.

[@shannonaskew7728]

Totally agree

[@jeremyohlheiser4820]

Sounds like somebody needs to work on their jump shot. Nobody cares about your opinion on the rules. I guarantee it.

[@georgepotter353]

@@jeremyohlheiser4820 I'm pretty good at kicking and don't need the crutch, but thank you for your useless comment.

[@darrellmccall6100]

Bergman takes a lot of time.....but he has incredible game.

[@pope9349]

Bergman is a walking snoozefest compared to Deuel.

[@bondarmsman]

What an offensive and cerebral game 8 ball is. It's only about 1% defensive and 99% offensive. Only great professionals can excel in this game.

[@marshalcraft]

I don't know about that. Bergemen def plays some defenesive positions. Duel doesn't. You can tell Bergemen comes from 9 ball world, while Corey (I have no idea really) prob from 8 ball and strait pool. Corey is an impeccable shot with more go with flow type of set up, which I think comes from 8. While Bergemen is put the ball anywhere he wants from 9 ball, play defense over perfectly makable shots. Both sides have something to be desired. If you could mix the two players to make one it would probably be insane.

[@jeffreypenkoff6178]

Corey Deuel made his name playing 7 ball actually. 7-Ball put him on the map, but he excels at a number of games.

[@TimMcMullen-s4l]

Is anybody else having problems hearing the commentators? I've watched lots of World Billiard TV videos and the commentary always seems hushed.

[@billyjack3580]

The volume is very, very low. I’m seeing this on many of the CSI videos. Fortunately the ads will crash in every once in a while and blow out an eardrum.

[@jamiestewart2051]

I might get flack for saying this but when pros play on a barbox,it comes down to luck or making a ball on the break so i wonder if chinese pockets on these small tables for tourneys would change the game and make more of a challenge.

[@RangeWilson]

IDK it was clear that Justin was better when they played the match. Corey simply muffed several runouts. That said, I would personally like to see tighter pockets than the ones they used. They ARE top-notch pros, and I've played in local bars that had tougher tables than this one.

[@marshalcraft]

wtf are chinese pockets?

[@josephnewcomb5670]

They should play Take What You Make that would make it alot better

[@cjr3559]

No flack from me, I agree

[@aaronkemp6847]

@@marshalcraft All of the pockets on a Chinese 8 ball table are rounded like a snooker table and they are tighter. I watched Shane van Boening get his ass handed to him by a Chinese opponent. Shane was missing everything. There were a lot of side pocket shots.

[@theWiggster1]

nothing like the Bruce Buffer of pool announcers

[@joeyluvgirls]

Im glad they have time matches. Because this dude is ridiculous. Hit the damn ball

[@trumanhw]

Justin's ghost-strokes are utterly CONFUSING; strooking from locations the cue ball has NO CHANCE of getting to. Seems more like a way to burn off some anxiety than actual analysis.

[@skibbles827]

He's lining up different paths the cue ball could take off the ball he's hitting and where the cue ball might go off rails. He's also lining up his next shot on different balls to create the best pattern for running out.

[@RockSpoon123]

He's planning a runout. I do this sometimes

[@britiprofi7578]

Still like him for the Mosconi Cup.

[@bobbyjojo]

28:55 The shot is the one ball

[@jh4rt]

Its 8 ball LOLLLLL

[@markabrice]

With Bergman playing, a shot clock would have been a good idea.

[@sp1200M3D]

36:22 the magic rack ruined the natural flow of the breakout balls

[@long6051]

Yeah, that was a complete magic rack fail!

[@sp1200M3D]

@ we know a couple millimeters can completely change the game!

[@lisahaler2324]

NICE

[@rogerzorzan9577]

Bergman's top looks like a Moto-Cross Racer jersey

[@suewoo5]

the bit he said about the brain is not true. we are always using all of our brain.

[@seanshay6573]

bergman rocks period

what is up with all these bar table posts lately......

[@trumanhw]

CD got bad rolls off the breaks for the last 4-6 games...

[@fendermender65]

The 2'nd ball break he is using leaves the c.b. on the bottom rail too often with an awkward limited choice of opening shots.

[@lstone234]

If I had to play Justin I would concede the game.I would not want to play this guy. He is so fucking slow. Give me a break. Pointing and stroking. What a pain in the ass.

[@RhinoTheTerrible]

Gawd, I hope they threw away that paper triangle.

[@shanescott7724]

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, don't ever let George commentate at another tournament! He has NO CLUE what he's talking about.

[@charlesfair1582]

s- Scott. I have been saying that for years !!! I have clocked him. More than 50% of every statement he makes are WRONG. !!!

[@frazierg0325]

Duel pattern racking

[@blueak3339]

3:00:00

[@garyborden1005]

Over the line, smokey! 😅😂

[@RussKline-x8p]

3 & 1/2 hour match. Half that time was racking balls😂

[@phillipwilliams2249]

In these comments, so many cry about a shot clock.. Personaly I dont care so much about shot delay ( my home is not on fire) as I do about an Intelligent and or skillful runout....guess I just like pool more than these impatient babies, wouldnt have cared who wins except for the fact Ive spoken with corey, because of that I was pulling for him.

[@donsmith3857]

rack 3 he takes forever on a VERY simple layout--i cant watch this--too painful, rather be at dentist getting molars drilled--nothing worse than a slow player

[@josephnewcomb5670]

don smith i agree with you....i cant stand a slow player.....i think if u gotta take 5 mins a shot u need to get off the take and go practice more till u get better and faster too plz

[@chato1082]

Joseph Newcomb not everyone has to play fast paced pool. Bergman and Deuel are some of the best players in the world and I don't think you have any room to tell them they need to practice and get better.

[@josephnewcomb5670]

Tj Nichols they could speed up tho haha And wasnt doubting there skill level its just painful watching pros play very slow when we all know they can play well at a faster pace....we all seen them do it many times......when i said slow players need to practice i wasnt exactly referring to them 100 percent....you wanna challenge me in money game ill slow u pro level pool at a good pace

[@TruthBySearching]

Seems like Justin Bergman has been taking lessons from Dennis Orculo on how to play slow. It's so fun watching Corey Deuel play, I simply hope Justin doesn't make a ball on the break.

[@josephnewcomb5670]

MindCrafter i agree

[@henrychinaski1797]

i love watching pool, but this match is boring I agree with the other comment about pool needing a shot clock.

[@phillipwilliams2249]

thats it...if i hear jay take part in 1 more commentary.. im getting into heroin. mean while anybody have any pepto bismall.

[@lstone234]

Corey is totally disinterested in watching Justin. I can't blame him.

[@josephnewcomb5670]

rack 12 is the pace ur supposed to play at :)

[@anon2414]

This is ridiculous. Who the hell is gonna sit through 3 1/2 hours...that's longer then a baseball game...smh

[@dylanrapalo5795]

Right now 96k people 😅

[@danny_5283]

This is why you can reverse/advance the video with the left/right or J / L keys on a keyboard or double-tap the left/ right sides of the screen on a phone to skip :D

[@robertz4186]

painful to watch such slow player

[@NothingSuitsMeLikeASuit]

you can say that again, this is a fucking joke... no wonder the games dying.

[@josephnewcomb5670]

Oma Miesta i hate slow players....get off the table and go practice till ur better and faster too...i can run the table before they can get half way there at this pace

[@NothingSuitsMeLikeASuit]

Bend Metal Fitness lmao why the fuck would we wanna be on a pool tour... making less than a highschool janitor a year. Think ill stick to my day job thanks. btw if you think these guys are amusing to watch....you must be fun at parties.

[@NothingSuitsMeLikeASuit]

Bend Metal Fitness lol fair enough, dont bother watching the first half, its really cringe.... and tbh 100k is still pretty embarassing for the top standard of a sport. Pool seems to be slowly dying while snooker is growing, think its time to shift over lols. Snooker players make that kind of money from a single tournament. Top players make close to a million a season and even thats pretty low imo...

[@josephnewcomb5670]

Oma Miesta i agree i believe that they should have bigger payouts but pool been going downhill slowly for years.....not like it use to be

[@charlesfair1582]

Good heavens! I just watched the first 5 racks and the most obvious observation is the commentators should be removed.!!!

[@Frankje01]

How do you play that much pool in your life and play as slow as Bergman does. Does he also realize there is an audience that has to watch it. FOr a tough shot, fine, take your time. But to study the table after every simple shot is just pathetic. You do this every day and you apparently still don't have the mental capacity to focus and run a rack?

[@josephnewcomb5670]

Yeah he plays way too slow

[@ianwarshaw790]

I have a question.... who won?

[@allmight6645]

Different strokes for different folks. He’s a pro and you’re not. I’m not either. Simple shot or not. One mistake will cost you the match. Great things take time you know?

[@charlesfair1582]

Well, George out, Jay in. I would usually say that is better. But right away Jay says that Cory’s cue ball is over the line on breaking @ 9/6. I went back and looked, it was not over the line. Not even a close call. Come on Jay, you are better than this. You’re talking like George. So you are both out! And I don’t care for Fred either so It’s mute for me.Bummer. !!! Good match though so I will watch the rest. Thanks for sharing with us, please get some decent commentators.

[@peterscott6103]

It’s painful to watch this, Justin is so slow it’s annoying

[@Mickster114]

“Is that my daugher?” Uhh what??

[@hugosolis9363]

Nicknames are stupid in pool.

[@richardbates8423]

I have been told. Justin Bergman is homosexual. True or false? Who can say for sure?

[@CharlesRivers-kq8dr]

God birgman is slow.. I can't stand slow players

[@cliffstine3412]

fn joke

[@kristinmajkozak4274]

The pushy ornament fittingly clip because station conventionally coil pace a picayune owner. aggressive, spiritual dolphin

[@suewoo5]

I haven't seen these comments in a while. Nice loo

[@ynkybomber]

shot clock is sorely missed.