2020 Toro Super Recycler Model 21385 Review

[@PaulSikkema]

Feel free to leave a comment below. (I do moderate the comments so it may not show up right away) Thanks for watching and please Subscribe!

[@HomeOrchard]

@@PaulSikkema I run SAE HD 30 in my Toro due to high summer temperatures in the mid 90s and above.

[@WalterDavidRiffmon]

Thanks for this detailed and thorough review. After 18 years of not needing a mower, I find myself in need of one to cut the lawn as a single home owner. I've been spoiled but in a way, I look forward to cutting a lawn again. This model looks like a winner especially for the build quality you tok the time to show and explain. I could not have have gotten that from a dealer!

[@scottwoodtraining]

I've watched a plethora of reviews on this bad boy so far, even though I bought one a few weeks ago I keep watching them haha. Yours is BY FAR the most comprehensive. Thank you! I replaced my 1 year old hrx217 with this due to the hrx always leaving stragglers on my fescue at 4", this thing is a BEAST even at the highest height!

[@tedschmitt178]

Just bought one of these with the Briggs engine. Your review is spot on with everything. My dad bought a Toro wayyy back in 1960 and used it until the cast aluminum deck cracked in about 1974. It was a well-worn machine.

[@DanSheldon48]

So bought this mower 3 weeks ago after I have had the exact same mower for 14 years. But last night while mowing it want to turn to the right. After looking closer only 1 wheel is driving. Good thing I still have the 14 year old mower to finish. Thanks for the review. Located in SE Wisconsin.

[@skeeley64]

Probably the most comprehensive review of the Super Recycler anywhere! You even mentioned the 2 alternative motors! Thanks

[@semiprofessional8470]

Just got mine with the Briggs and Stratton. Your review is what convinced me to buy. Thanks!

[@onecrazywheel]

At 5:09 what are the Star Blue Dials for? I just purchased this mower and used it today but have no idea what they would do. Thanks! This video made me get this mower today at my local Toro Super Recycler mower shop in Central Florida yesterday. Great mower. I got the very same model. Very powerful and a nice cut. I'd have to struggle to see the clippings they're so fine.

[@PaulSikkema]

On a regular Toro recycler those blue knobs attach the handle to the deck. On the SuperRecycler those knobs attach the handle assembly to the deck. The SuperRecycler's handles are different and have those cushions to reduce the engine vibrations to the handle.

[@onecrazywheel]

@@PaulSikkema Thanks. Simple answer. Thanks for answering my question. Good mower. I'm looking forward to mowing my lawn with this mower. I'll be selling our 2007 Craftsman DLT 3000 tractor 🚜 with bagger soon. It has been a great mower but I need more exercise and the smaller mower is so much more maneuverable around our fenced in yard.

[@Techprone1]

Awesome 😎 review, clear cut and to the point on every feature, love the details and angles of every view with commentary - excellent review!

[@jaykaydee5772]

Very thorough review Paul. Love all the comments you reply to and give your best opinion on them.!!

[@georgeperry1707]

Awesome review of this mower. Best and most thorough review I have seen on anything in a long time. I ordered this mower last week and it will be here tomorrow so I cant wait to try it out. I ended up getting the one with the Honda engine as that is what I am used to over the years. You provided so much good insightful info so Thanks for that ! Cheers~

[@luvs2race370]

Really good in depth review. Only correction I'd like to make so ppl aren't miss-led is that this particular model you have is not the Smart Stow. The Smart Stow model is the one with the Briggs engine. I know this because I purchased a model 21386 for the Smart Stow feature as I have a small shed that I keep all my outdoor tools in and it is a definite huge advantage. Briggs designed this engine specially to be stored up-right and not flood, or leak fluids. The Smart Stow model also has two rollers on the back side that it rests on when in the up-right position so it is easy to slide in a corner when sitting up-right. Please don't think I am trying to knock your review. Everything you mentioned about this mower but this is spot on. The mower is definitely a winner in my book even after 2 years of ownership for me. I just don't want ppl who want the Smart Stow feature accidentally ordering this one and not getting what they want.

[@PaulSikkema]

Yes, Briggs owns the Smart Stow trademark. That said, this engine is also designed so the mower can be tipped up on end. The handles don't lock like the Smart Stow but will fold flat so you can store it upright.

[@craigcarroll6161]

Nice review. I came home with one yesterday with the B&S engine. No one in the area seems to carry the Toro engine. It unboxed easily (came from Home Depot since none of the dealers had one. One had an electric start but I really didn't want that and a two week wait at another local dealer. I imagine the covid restrictions have slowed production down and many have gotten behind. Once I made it through the sort of strange set up pages that came with it - strange to me for a large old company like Toro - we pulled the cord on the engine. Almost started fresh out of the box on the first pull and did on the second. I really can't imagine how the gas got to the engine so quickly. Then I pushed on the handle and had no self propulsion. After crawling around on the ground I discovered that someone failed to hook up the cable to the drive unit. After loosening the cable from the bracket on the handle, it was fastened and ready to mow. I notice that it does not back up as freely as I believe it should and so I may have to adjust the cable again, giving it less tension. This mower does cut nicer than any mower I've had, as it should with the changes they've made over the years. It may take me some time to get it to go at a snails pace. That is what I liked about the old 1998 Snapper I have. First notch on the belt tensioner and it moves nice and slow and a pull on a lever and it disengages. I'm hoping it won't take me too long to grow accustomed to this "personal pace" design. All in all, I'm glad I went this Super Recycleer.

[@PaulSikkema]

Thanks, yes, everyone is having supply issues this year and one of the worst is getting small engines for walk-behind mowers. If the paperwork you got doesn't show how to adjust the cable here is the owner's manual. You can print it or read it on your computer.

[@dxp2210]

Paul, great review. Thank you. Can you power the drive wheels without engaging mower blade on this model? I borrowed a friends 'personal pace' mower and could not figure out a way to engage drive without also engaging blade.

[@PaulSikkema]

No. The blade and self-propel are tied directly to the engine shaft on this one and most mowers. You need a mower that independently disengages the blade. The 21” (53 cm) Personal Pace® Spin-Stop™ Super Recycler® Mower (21383) and 30" (76cm) Personal Pace® TimeMaster® Mower (21199) walk-behinds allow you to disengage the blade and the motor still stays running. That will allow you to use the personal pace to move the mower under it's own power.

[@lukesmith2725]

Impressive review. Well thought out, complete and honest. Thank you. “My knees are bothering me”. 😂 brother, I hear ya. 👍

[@martyolszowy9943]

Time for a Rider !

[@alans.4658]

Nice review Paul. On my lawn I have one part that is steep. I added the blue traction assist handle that comes on the all wheel drive & Timemaster mowers and I love it. I found it very easy to add a fuel shut off valve also.

[@HomeOrchard]

I have Model 21386 with the Briggs 163 cc engine. Mine has Zerk fittings on both rear wheels. I pump grease into them twice a year. Your Toro engine is a spitting image of a Honda clone. Twice now, the belt gets jammed or comes off of a spindle. I am perplexed as to what is causing it. I avoid running over sticks and pine cones. After the last belt reinstall, I got the traction cable adjusted really well. Any suggestions? Btw, I don’t buy into the hype of no oil changes. That’s foolishness! I change the oil about twice a season living in the Deep South. Thanks for a great video.

[@PaulSikkema]

I had the trans belt on the timemaster too tight! Dirt or small rocks wedged in the pulleys are sometimes hard to see. If you have full synthetic oil, Like Mobil ONE it's good for at least 160 hours in a car. Since air cooled engines run hotter the same oil will last 100 hours or more in your mower. The reasoning behind "never change oil" is most owners will never use their walk-behind 100 hours before they have get something new.

[@lakemarine484]

Nice video and very well done. I like the camera angles. Here is my experience with the previous year Toro model (it appears identical other than the color). My first super recycler had a Briggs-Stratton engine and I never had an issue. It was 10 rs old and I gave it to my son when he bought his first house. I bought a new Recycler with the Toro Engine (21381) and it is just over 1 year old. If I stop the mower for 5 minutes, on a slight sidehill with carburetor on low side of slope, it leaks gas through the carburetor/filter and floods and is extremely difficult to start. It also smokes horribly when mowing on a sidehill and sputters. Also - the drive belt slipped off of the pulley a few weeks ago. When removing the shroud to re-install the belt, the shroud access bolt head wrung off and I had to drill and tap the housing to reattach it. The screws that hold the transmission pulley guard in place are extremely hard to access, cheap self tapping, and they are SQUARE drive. It took me over an hour to reinstall the belt. The drive cable snapped last month and it took 2 weeks to receive the replacement. If I turn the mower off to move something it usually takes 3 or 4 pulls to get it to restart. I am a 30 year journeyman machinist and own a gravely walk behind, 3 motorcycles, a pickup, a jetski and a boat and I service all of them myself. I am very mechanically inclined. Toro is skimping on quality starting with their Toro brand engine and cheap hardware and poor, non-user friendly designs. My “dealer” highly recommended this mower and they are over an hour away. The 21381 is just over one year old and it is a discontinued piece….

[@PaulSikkema]

Yes, the 21381 was discontinued last year. This year this model - the 21385 was introduced and we've not had ANY of the issues you described.

[@andybub45]

I will be buying a Super Recycler with a Honda engine soon. My 21" Honda mower was great for the first year or two but then it started to have issues. I wish Toro would put the Honda GCV 190 on there instead of the 160. But otherwise, its a great mower.

[@andybub45]

I bought it, it is awesome. Worlds better than any Honda I have used!

[@alans.4658]

I had a honda hrx217k with the 190cc. The Toro engine is better and more powerful. It restarts easily when warm. Something the honda struggled with

[@billking772]

Hi Paul, thank you for such a great detailed review! I am wondering how well this model free wheels while backing it up? I have a neighbor that put up a fence across from my chain link and I don't have enough room to turn a mower around so I end up dragging my older Lawn-boy Insight that's a better part of 90lbs backwards about 80ft for a couple times to get it done. I would like something easier to pull back due to former rotator cuff surgery on both shoulders. I looked at the Toro power reverse but it does not feel very nimble for trimming around things, it seems awkward. I've been considering a Honda HRN216VKA but am concerned about too many plastic components. It does free wheel back very nicely. I'm sure I would prefer the Personal Pace over the Honda thumb paddles as my Lawn-boy is basically same as the Toro. Thank you for your advice!

[@PaulSikkema]

Like most mowers if you have this mower set to mow low (1-2 inches) the safety toe flap will cause a lot of friction when pulling it backwards but - when the mowing height is set to 3-4 inches the flap does not offer much resistance. When you have to pull this mower backwards a long distance I suggest grabbing the bar under the Personal Pace handle. It does pull easy that way.

[@billking772]

@@PaulSikkema thank you for your reply, I'll have to call around to the local dealers to find one. The Super Recycler definitely appears to be a more robust machine than most mowers. Hopefully it will fit the bill for me.

[@johngalle2840]

Thanks for this thorough review. I was thinking about a Cub Cadet SC900 versus Toro super recycler but your review helped me to pic the Toro

[@stashu72]

Just picked a 21385 up this AM after reading your review. Added oil&gas started on 1st pull. I got scared because when I tried to go forward it did not go, just simple cable adjustment and it's fine. Thanks for the review and answering my questions. Will cut grass later or Sunday and report. Thanks Again Stan

[@stashu72]

Just cut the lawn for 10 minutes to test it out, it ran perfectly! no spits, sputters, hiccups, etc. like the 2-- 21287's I bought at Home Depot had. Happy camper.!! FYI--Bought the 21285 from a Toro Dealer.

[@chetbellphoto]

Stash I got the 21387 that you mention above and it sputtered like others have experienced. Took it back and I’ll be getting this model instead.

[@timconrad9826]

Great review Paul. I have a 20037 Super Recycler that I put into service in 2001. Still running like a top, but I want to be proactive on a new machine. I am having trouble deciding between the Honda engine (21382) and this Toro engine model. As you can see I take extremely good care of my current unit which has the old Briggs engine. Synthetic oil and multiple changes a season, new plug every season and multiple air cleaner changes plus always a sharp blade. My next Toro will be left to one of my sons if it lasts as long as the 20037. Any pluses and minuses between the Honda engine or the Toro engine models?

[@jask5081]

I have the Toro 21383 model with the Toro 159cc engine which is made by Loncin Industries (China) and is likely the model LC1P65FE. I’m posting this reply on 09/10/23 after having this mower since 05/2020. My only complaint is the belt cavities on this mower retains grass clippings that will sit inside the guard housing and compromise the various cable ends and springs. Purchase spares to keep your machine out of the repair shop.

[@BG-xr5bi]

Honda engine only 5 years warranty

[@lou196t]

Hi Paul, Thanks for a great video. You asked if any of us have other mowers we like. I've had a Troy-bilt/Briggs&Stratton/5HP for 25 years. It had a working electric start but that battery died and a replacement cost is about a hundred bucks about 10 years ago. Over the years the self propelled front wheel drive has been repaired and the last repair guy told me that it was probably the last time it could be fixed. Of course I will take it elsewhere for another opinion but so far this year it is working...not in the beginning but it is now. Must have needed warmer weather, lol. I've been looking for a new mower but didn't know what to even look at that would compare to my Troy. Have you ever owned a Troy-Bilt? If so would you still recommend this Toro. It's hard for me to decide since this one is well built. Thanks again.

[@andybub45]

Troy Bilt isnt good. Toro is way better.

[@jeremychristensen2856]

Thanks for the great review, Paul! Partly because of this video, I’m seriously considering this mower. Does it leave a line of clippings/clumps behind one side? I’ve see a few people say that which concerns me because I have thick grass. Thanks!

[@PaulSikkema]

If you are using it properly it does not leave clumps or strips. Remember, to mulch properly you should not be cutting more than 1/3 of the growth. If you try to mulch right after a rain on in the morning dew all mowers will clump. I cut at 4 inches and can cut 4 inches of growth and this mower will not leave clumps or strips.

[@markschommer7407]

@@PaulSikkema So far mine mulches just fine. Havent had any lines or anything like that. I'm actually very surprised how well it does mulch.

[@brodygoalie]

It happens to me. Grass has to be very dry not to get grass come out on the left side.

[@pkvillager]

I really want this mower but my regular recycler with personal pace just wont die... I got excited when it wouldn't start the other day when it had just started on one pull the mow before that. But it turned out to be a bad spark plug that I had just swapped in, it died after 3 mows. I got it for $30 over 5 years ago when a buddy was told it needed a new carb again(shady shop) so he bought a new mower. I took it home and it started fine and it has had zero issues all this time.

[@stashu72]

Debating the Toro motor or one with the Briggs. I feel Briggs has gone downhill with the plastic carb, etc. I would like to get the Super R. with a Honda motor 21382 but cannot find one. Do you feel the 21385 with the Toro motor is better than the ones with the Briggs?. I did buy 2 of the 21387's w/Briggs at Home Depot and returned both of them because they sputtered and almost died a few times when cutting the grass. I used non-ethanol gas. I did check the spark plug wire to be sure it was clicked in, as others have expressed this issue. Also noticed Home Depot does not sell the 21385 but Tractor Supply in "CNY" and Dealers do. Thanks for any comments,

[@PaulSikkema]

I have no preference between the Briggs and Toro engines. They both have the 5 year guaranteed to start promise. The Briggs have the SmartStow and from what I can tell the Toro engine can also be stored tipped up. These engines are all designed to run on 87 octane - 10% (E10) fuels. You don't need to use the high octane, non-ethanol fuels in them. Yes, certain models are available at the Home Depot, others at TSC and all are at your local Toro dealer. I have links in the description for the Home Depot and TSC models.

[@stashu72]

@@PaulSikkema Thanks Paul for the info.

[@Hanlin-ll6ru]

I had the exact same issues you describe with two of the 21387s -- I bought and returned two of them at Home Depot as well. Because I love all the other features of this mower I will give it one last shot and buy the Toro engine model at TSC on Monday in the hopes that it works properly.

[@jimamerica7419]

The Toro engine is made in China. I have not heard anything bad yet. I do like the 21387 and prefer the Briggs and Stratton engine. I plan on getting one to replace my aging, 20 year old super recycler. Word to the wise. I heard that Toro outsources manufacturing on some models sold exclusively to big box stores. I buy my equipment from an independent and never had issues.

[@PaulSikkema]

I don't know if Toro is outsourcing but they do have an assembly plant in Mexico. A lot of Toro's smaller products like gas mowers, single stage snow blowers, trimmers, electric mowers, etc., are made there. On the outside of the box is a label with the model number and it also states the country of origin. The 21385 I have was made in Mexico. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet and everything you hear from a sales person at "some" dealers - especially when they tell you their 21387 mower is better than the one sold at The Home Depot.

[@BG-xr5bi]

Nice Review !! Honest& straight forward advice!

[@mrcrowley2737]

Great review, nice and thorough. I’ll be buying my first Toro. Thank you.

[@tonynittoli4792]

I’ve used toro mowers for over 25 years. That being said they are a beast. The recycling mower is new to me so checking to see if it’s a gimmick or the real deal. Your buying quality and not some POS mower so if you treat her good I’m sure you’ll get more years than you thought out of it.

[@PaulSikkema]

Toro has been making mulching mowers for over 20 years now and they have been constantly improving them. This Super Recycler is arguably the best on the market.

[@mellowjammer]

I really wanted to buy this based on your review but then read your note above. What would happen if you did store it vertically like most people will inevitably try to do in order to save space? This is frustrating as I would prefer this Loncin (Honda Clone) engine to the Briggs EXi with the cheap plastic cam gear and many complaints. That's the engine you seem to be stuck with if you want the true Smartstow feature. (just check and add oil...what a joke! Just my $0.02)

[@gianflores4881]

Hi Paul, I have a super recycler about three years old and I noticed on your video, the mower starts after one pull. Does your mower cold start at one pull all the time?

[@PaulSikkema]

Yes it does. Your Super Recycler is quarantined to start on the first of second pull for five years

[@thomko2715]

Had to make a new account lost the last one , GREAT VIDEO AS ALWAYS! Hope to see more time cutter videos

[@scottdavies9336]

I just can't get used to the black color and it might be a deal breaker. The red on the other mowers looks sharp.

[@836dmar]

Just bought a 2005 Super Recycler. It’s surprising how little they have changed.

[@PaulSikkema]

Don't mess with success

[@rossmarkwell9228]

Hi Paul. Do you happen to know if this model has been discontinued? On some dealer websites it says discontinued and on others it says out of stock. It was on the Tractor Supply website several months ago but now it isn't even listed. Thanks for any information you may have.

[@PaulSikkema]

The current 2021 models are on the Toro website: www.toro.com/en/homeowner/walk-behind-mowers. The 21385 will be available this year. If you are looking anywhere other than Toro.com those websites, especially the big box stores list out-of-stock items if they don't have any but have more ordered. Other sites will list them as discontinued but they mean they are not going to get any more that season. These retails don't have their 2021 sock in the warehouse yet so it will continue to show discontinued until the products are in the warehouse and ready to go into the stores. Finally, It may be discontinued and stores may just be getting the same mower - but with a different engine.

[@rossmarkwell9228]

Thanks Paul. Awesome review.

[@DanSheldon48]

The handle is adjustable there are 3 setting. Looks like you should lower it to the middle setting

[@PaulSikkema]

I'm not sure I understand your comment. The model I have here has only one handle height hole and a rubber cushion under the hole. The cushion helps to reduce the vibration when mowing.

[@DanSheldon48]

@@PaulSikkema You will see if you remove the blue knobs that there are 3 settings for your handle height. I wasn't sure either until I took the knob completely off and then you can see the different settings. I does talk about it in the manual but it is not very clear.

[@DanSheldon48]

@@PaulSikkema photos.app.goo.gl/We18zHBVhWWVVc5M7

[@brodygoalie]

Do you recommend using a specific product that you can spray or apply on the bottom so wet grass will not stick? Thanks

[@PaulSikkema]

No, just use the deck wash or turn it on it's side and wash it with a hose when you are done.

[@brodygoalie]

Ok thank you Paul. I asked you again just saw your answer here.

[@jarvisreyes8229]

I bought the super recycler 21386 with the Briggs motor. I have a 22” recycler that has the knob to switch from bag to recycle. The super recycler doesn’t have that. My question is do I need a mulching plug for the super recycler? If so does it come in the box with the mower (mine didn’t) Or Is it connected to the mower and can’t be pulled off? Please and thank you

[@PaulSikkema]

Yes, the mulch plug comes preinstalled in the mower. Lift up the rear door and there is a latch that holds the plug tightly in place. Once you move the latch it comes out easily.

[@jarvisreyes8229]

Paul, thank you for the response. I have been looking at every review possible, searching the manual, searching toro site (would call toro but bought it yesterday and the call center is closed), and couldn’t find anything about a mulch plug. Thanks again for the quick response. Subscribing now.

[@PaulSikkema]

Just so you know in the operators manual under "Recycling the Clippings" it explains the "rear discharge plug" Here is the link to the manual: manuals.toro.com/174080/index.html?rnd=0.4291658739648342

[@brodygoalie]

Paul. Is there just one kind of replacement blade or choices? Thanks. Model number of the replacement blade?

[@PaulSikkema]

When you go to Toro.com, search for your model and parts lists will come up. They only show one blade 133-8183-03

[@zamora6090]

Wait i thought only model number 21386 21387 had the smart stow really like the smart stow feature but I didnt see that option on the all black models the smart stow ones have the red plastic motor cover

[@PaulSikkema]

SmartStow is a trademark and from my understanding, the name can only be used on the SuperRecycler when it is equipped with the Briggs & Stratton "no-oil-change" engine. But, 1. The engine on the 21385 is designed so that when you tip up the mower on it's back feet no oil or gas will spill out. (To verify that I tipped this one up and left it in the position for 10 days. It started first pull) 2. The SmartStow has a hole in the bottom handle bracket to lock the handle in the down position. The 21385 does not have that hole (but I am going to use a drill to make one) 3. The SuperRecycler mowers have a roller on the back of the bottom handle bracket so you can roll the mower around when it's in the upright position. (The 21385 has feet like the brackets on the red recycler mowers) So technically it is not a SmartStow but it has all the features that will allow you to tip it up vertically.

[@AppleFanX2]

@@PaulSikkema This is great news! Thanks for the information. 👍🏻

[@ibrahimabdulle8121]

thanks for the video. i shall be picking this up tomorrow

[@williamfoster0722]

Will the new Toro 60V Super Recycler function just like the gas model you have reviewed?

[@PaulSikkema]

We'll try it out this spring!

[@ronscopes]

I clean my mower every week and I hate the side discharge and the crap that builds up there, useless. I could also do without the washout port that doesn’t clean as good as tipping it up every cut. How do you like the plastic handle ? Good luck with your knees Paul I have one blown out myself.

[@PaulSikkema]

Yes, they include the side-discharge so you can mow taller grass if you need to but in reality - if you are buying this mower you NEVER side-discharge. So it's just a pain to clean. I like the Personal Pace and the handle myself.

[@briancaine9130]

@@PaulSikkema how is using side discharge a pain to clean? Are you saying the side discharge doesn’t work that well with this design? Great review -it’s hard to find any in mowers these days. Thank you.

[@PaulSikkema]

This mower is a mulcher first, a bagger second and a side discharge mower last. If you have the side discharge piece in and you want to use the washout port the water doesn't circulate under the deck that well. You end up tipping the mower on it's side to wash it out with the hose to get it really clean. With the cover closed it cleans the underside of the deck a lot better.

[@briancaine9130]

@@PaulSikkema understand now. Thanks.

[@gymrat974]

Question: Should I buy this one or the Honda HRN 216 VKA from Lowe's?

[@PaulSikkema]

They both mulch as good as you can get. I prefer the Personal Pace and the aluminum deck on the Toro. The Toro is also guaranteed to start for five years!

[@gymrat974]

@@PaulSikkema ok thank you

[@jeremychristensen2856]

I have the same exact question. Thanks!

[@jaymetheaccountant]

So how did you get Toro to send the mower? I live 4 miles from their HQ and I still don’t have one. Any guidance is appreciated 🙂

[@PaulSikkema]

Well I spent 15 years building todaysmower.com and movingsnow.com helping people find the right mowers and snowblowers for them. and 10 years doing the same thing on KZbin and going to GIE-EXPO for the last 30 years and owning a lawn/landscape company in Northern Illinois for 10 years and I didn't ask - they found me.

[@thatonegirlazu9847]

I have a Honda engine one. Absolutely love it 😊

[@VaporheadATC]

I've had Honda's for a long time now, but I am getting tired of the constant rear wheels locking up when trying to pull backwards. It doesn't matter what you do to try and fix it, it keeps coming back. Does Toro have the same problems like this?

[@PaulSikkema]

No. When you want to pull it backwards there is a separate steel bar under the Personal Pace handle. Just drop your hand down to that handle and the mower freewheels in reverse and forward.

[@JerrySelbher]

does the plastic wheel at least have steel cogs? I have an oldish RWD with steel drive cogs powering plastic wheel cogs. Wheels last less than 1 season.

[@PaulSikkema]

I haven't had that experience with the supper recycler models

[@jimamerica7419]

Paul, Bingo! You stated that most people (myself included) purchase super recyclers mainly for mulching. My opinion is that buying those models for bagging is a waste of money.

[@michaeldavis6550]

Ok my question is who actually makes that Toro branded engine cause it's not Toro. They don't make the engines, Their made by someone else & i would love to know who. I'm not a Briggs fan espically today with the junk plastic carburetors but I like the engine on your mower & really wanna find out more detailed information on it. Thank you for any help.

[@PaulSikkema]

Toro engines are made by Loncin to Toro's specs. Loncin is one of the world's largest small engine manufactures. If you watch any video that shows any small cars, motorcycles or 3-wheelers in the Far East the engine in them is probably made by Loncin. Loncin is based in China. Toro snow and lawn engines have proven very reliable and parts are readily available through toro.com.

[@michaeldavis6550]

@PaulSikkema To bad its from China, Maybe good but we should boycot anything from China today & going foreword, Thank you & I've never heard of loncin before.

[@PaulSikkema]

Yes, some of the other brands that were having engines made in china have moved production to other countries. LCT for example, has gotten out of China and now makes the engines in Vietnam.

[@stevehoch9528]

Good review Paul. I've always been a Toro super recycler fan. Hey, do you still have your Impala SS?

[@PaulSikkema]

Thanks, I'm not that guy - I always had Dodge and Plymouth's

[@onecrazywheel]

We have a local lawn shop where this is $499.00. Is this still a good price for this mower? Thanks!

[@PaulSikkema]

The retail price is $549. The dealer is giving you a good deal.

[@onecrazywheel]

@@PaulSikkema Great. Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it. Do take care. God bless.

[@onecrazywheel]

I did purchase this mower yesterday thanks to your wonderful review. Thanks. I even watched your video again after seeing this one a week ago. Great video.

[@paulanderson8640]

Is the personal pace system hard to operate it seems clunky to me and I am going to purchase a top end mower this week please advise

[@PaulSikkema]

You have to try one with the mower running. All you have to do is grab the top handle, start walking, and the mower stays right in front of you. You don't have to push the handle, move a speed control, press a button - or anything. You can go fast, slow, speed up, slow down and the mower just automatically stays right in front of you. Spend 15 minutes with one and you will never want anything else...

[@paulanderson8640]

Paul Sikkema thank you so much for responding I will absolutely try it your video was awesome and down to earth and I really appreciate that since I am a country boy that now lives in the big city of Omaha, Nebraska thank you again!!!!!

[@JeffJohnson-1982]

@@PaulSikkema I just bought a OEM toro part called a a traction assist bar which bolts to the handle bar. It's much easier to control the speed of the machine. It's more consistant. It really helps.

[@PaulSikkema]

Yes, I keep forgetting about that part. I wish they made it for the SnowMaster - it would help that snow blower a lot. (You can get it here: imp.i284638.net/xWekx )

[@JeffJohnson-1982]

@@PaulSikkema Hi Paul, I really enjoy watching and listening to you in your videos. Weather you are mowing lawns or blowing snow it's very interesting to listen to you. That's the same part I ordered for my super recycler mower. Sure makes a difference I think. Have you tried a mower with this option?

[@CuttaSquad]

I love how it’s looks

[@kendemers8821]

Great, detailed review. Thanks

[@davecrissman9460]

Toro engines are not smartstow. Only Briggs & Stratton have that feature. Models 21386 & 21387.

[@PaulSikkema]

Is SmartStow a Briggs Trademark? I'm not arguing with you but the when you tip this model up on the feet in the back the valve train, fuel opening and carb are all up, out of the way. In other words the engine won't be harmed by storing it in that position. Or is there something I'm missing?

[@davecrissman9460]

Paul Sikkema When I purchased my 21387, my dealer told me the only smartstow option were the two models I mentioned and there are not any other engine makers that can store upright currently. They are designed to not leak fuel and oil. That was a feature I need for my space right now. If you do not have problems with it, you may be ok.

[@JonBecker81]

I really want a Honda HRX 217 with the 200cc engine, roto stop and hydro trans but it doesn’t have side discharge. Yeah I know you can get a chute for the back but from what I’ve heard those clog up real easy. This might be the way to go. Also I think I might like the aluminum deck on this better than the Honda plastic one. If you’re bagging and have a lot of grass in the back the weight distribution would probably be better on this because of more weight in the front from the heavier deck.

[@exnihilo2601]

Interesting. I passed on the Honda for the same reason and my 21387 has been a pain in the ass.

[@shmurk951dabz]

hello what type of air filter does this take?

[@PaulSikkema]

Two ways to quickly find this 1. Look in your manual that you got with the mower. You can also look at the manual by scanning the QR code by the model number with your phone. 2. Copy the model number and serial number (I take a picture) Go to Toro.com, find the model parts list and look the air filter up on the parts page.

[@tonynittoli4792]

I’m curious how this will do mulching leaves?

[@PaulSikkema]

I cut my bluegrass/fescue lawn at four inches. It chews the leaves up so fine they basically disappear.

[@tedschmitt178]

Great review!

[@trulysick86]

Heads up the briggs model has a shitty carb connection and will bog down on bumps. Because it bounces around because theres really nothing that holds it to the engine. Take a look, simple fix, but Toro says its cuz the plug wire isnt fully seated

[@PaulSikkema]

I asked my trusted Toro dealer and this is what he said, "I will say this I think the Briggs Engines are poor. Both engines I push Spark Plug wire onto plug about 90% are not on all the way. Once I sell out of Briggs recoil units I don’t plan to re-order. The Elec. Start (21387) engine is being a pain. But carb is mounted I don’t know what they are talking about. Simply I tell most customers if they have to have Smart Stow the Briggs Engine is what it is but if that doesn’t matter get the Toro Engine. I pray Toro offers a Toro Engine Elec. Start next year.

[@trulysick86]

@@PaulSikkema Maybe it is a plug for some. Maybe ill make a video, but my carb wiggles around. Theres a tab on the carb that is suppose to hold it in the bracket. But the hole for the tab is too high for it to fit in. So it just wobbles around. Then the connection to the engine is a loose fitting hard plastic hose and a couple plastic rings.

[@tonyr1950]

No oil change? Sounds like a bad idea

[@PaulSikkema]

Today's synthetic oils are nothing like the oil you've used in the past. You can easily run any full synthetic in your auto for over 10,000 miles and never have to worry about it going bad. (That's 166 hours) Mobil One has proven their oil can run over 3,000,000 miles in s semi and still lubricate the engine as well as it did the first mile it was put in the truck. Personally, I have two vehicles with 195,000 and 342,000 and both don't use any oil between the 10,000 mile oil changes. The conventional oil you are used to would start to break down after 3000-6000 miles (50-100 hours) In other words, 166 hours of run time is a LOT of walking and the oil in Toro's engine will easily go that long or much longer without breaking down.

[@mikecampbell4307]

Strange that the literature and website do not show this as being a smart stow (tip up) machine. You showed that it is however. That was the final point I needed to make my purchase decision. Thanks! Can you verify that it is smart stow though?

[@PaulSikkema]

SmartStow is a trademark and from my understanding, the name can only be used on the SuperRecycler when it is equipped with the Briggs & Stratton "no-oil-change" engine. But, 1. The engine on the 21385 is designed so that when you tip up the mower on it's back feet no oil or gas will spill out. (To verify that I tipped this one up and left it in the position for 10 days. It started first pull) 2. The SmartStow has a hole in the bottom handle bracket to lock the handle in the down position. The 21385 does not have that hole (but I am going to use a drill to make one) 3. The SuperRecycler mowers have a roller on the back of the bottom handle bracket so you can roll the mower around when it's in the upright position. (The 21385 has feet like the brackets on the red recycler mowers) So technically it is not a SmartStow but it has all the features that will allow you to tip it up vertically.

[@mikecampbell4307]

Paul Sikkema do you think the same is true about the 21383 with spin stop and do you have any experience with the spin stop? Any thoughts you could share on that feature?

[@PaulSikkema]

It's the same Toro engine in the same orientation so it will act just like this one. In my experience over the years blade clutches (spin-stop) are just something extra to wear out. These engines are guaranteed to start on first pull for 5 years and they are easy to pull-start so the Spin-Stop is something I wouldn't be interested in on a SuperRecycler.

[@mikecampbell4307]

Paul Sikkema I came to the same conclusion and bought the same model as you the 21385. I talked to Toro and they said it is a quick stow as opposed to the smart stow and it's supposed to be drained of fluids prior to tip up. I believe you said you left it upright with gas and it still started 10 days later? Sound like I don't have to worry about draining, am I right?

[@PaulSikkema]

Yes, I had it tipped up with the oil in it and about 3/4 tank of fuel. I left it that way for 10 days and no fluids leaked out. I set it down on all four wheels, raised the handles and pulled the cord. It started on first pull. It did not blow black or white smoke when it started. (an indication that oil was in the wrong place)

[@wayne1362]

Can you put a gator blade on a super recycler

[@PaulSikkema]

You'd have to check with Oregon to see if they made one for it. But. The Super Recycler is such a good mower with the stock blades I doubt if you would see any improvement - in fact, they may not do as well as the Toro blades.

[@nicolascaballero5890]

Good for heavy use? For like 6 yards a week?

[@PaulSikkema]

The mower and engine are built as well as any commercial mower but- the wheels are not ball bearing. I will guess that you will have to replace the wheels once a year or so if you are mowing that much every week.

[@nicolascaballero5890]

Paul Sikkema ohhh okay , just wondering because I’ve seen yard companies use the toro time master on KZbin and the time master broke down on them because it’s supposedly not meant for commercial use

[@PaulSikkema]

Toro/Exmark does make "true" commercial walk-behinds but they start at 30 inches.

[@alans.4658]

Toro #22289 21" commercial mower Plus they have several other 21" models available too

[@frankcloskey7789]

Excellent Recycler .1/22/2022

[@dcastro5551]

Hey thanks for the review. Just picked this one up from a local individual, new in box. Replacing a 15 yr old Recycler and hope it delivers. Was really hoping to get the upright stow but I saved enough money to live without it.

[@elijames3041]

I like the mower

[@thechardestyiv]

I've had my super recycler for just half a season and it wont start anymore. It ran fine the first couple of months. Then it would start and stutter then just wouldn't start anymore. Suggestions on fixing it? Anyone else dealing with these issues?

[@PaulSikkema]

Yes, the fix is easy. Take it to your local dealer. Most of the engines they put on it are guaranteed to start. If you don't want to use the dealer suggestion - remove the gas cap and tip it over on it's side so the gas runs out. Leave it that way for at least an hour. Then mix a tablespoon of SeaFoam with one cup gas. Pour that in if you are lucky it will start.

[@b286guy]

Which engine does it have? Sounds like a plugged carburetor. I’ve gotten into the habit of using ethanol treatment/stabilizer in mine during the season and running it completely out of fuel before putting it away for the winter. My 6-year old SR with a Honda engine started on the first pull this Spring. Still very happy with the unit although the new black ones certainly look cooler 😎

[@justanotherokie3149]

Sorry, but I broke one about 25-30 years ago. Big Crack in the side. I hit one of those screw into the ground dog run holders. Not to be deterred, I had a guy bend it back into shape and weld it together. It had a real nasty battle scar but worked as good as new. That model had a real clutch and a Tecumseh engine.

[@PaulSikkema]

The Toro 21383 still has the blade brake (spin stop) clutch. The company that came out of Tecumseh (LCT) is not making vertical shaft engines at this point in time.

[@DanColeman-zt6ej]

Why are they using the cheap engines?

[@PaulSikkema]

Just like Kohler Toro is using a major overseas manufacture to make these engines. They are high quality engines from one of the largest engine manufacturers in the world (Loncine) Briggs at this time is also making their engines overseas and the quality was no better.

[@WWStudio360]

How much does this machine cost?

[@PaulSikkema]

This model with the Toro engine is currently unavailable but the models with a honda or briggs are. Check them out here: homedepot.sjv.io/QOjDNx

[@lukewignall9947]

Glad I bought a Honda

[@matthewbono3273]

I thought you couldn't tip up the Toro engine for smart stow, or it wasn't marketed as such. Not to downplay the handle moving but the full on smartstow is a great feature. Great reviews.

[@PaulSikkema]

The engine can handle being tipped up. The term Smartstow is a Briggs trademark so no else can use on a different brand engine....

[@matthewbono3273]

Thanks for the reply, I wasn't sure you'd still see it. Are you planning a second review after months of use? Also, no oil leakage or anything with the Toro engine after vertical storage. Thanks again.

[@PaulSikkema]

I wasn't planning on a second review this year. I'm only using it on one city lot so it's not getting a lot of hours. There are no issues with storing it vertical. All the areas that could leak oil are up near the cylinder and OHV area. With that tipped up it won't leak oil.

[@HYPER4MANCE]

@@PaulSikkema Thank you Paul for the clarification. I will be getting one to replace my existing Troy Bilt mower.

[@tcrwild8422]

Finally got my first toro mower last week used one, 22 personal pace recycler, electric start, Briggs engine, it’s mint condition abt 2 yrs old wheels still look new, got it for $100 guy thought the choke was bad he claimed, turned out to be a $5 primer ball 👍. Been a huge toro fan since the day I used one, have got 3 toro 2 stage blowers love them built well and reliable, simple designs that work good, good engineering, good materials, I love the personal pace handle ergonomics best handle I have ever used, and also the speed of these personal pace mowers is incredible 😁

[@MrGiantstpss]

"Never change the oil." More like run it until it blows up. It is sad how far down Briggs has gone.

[@PaulSikkema]

Let's look at this in a different way. I use Mobil One in all my gas engines. I change the oil in my car every 15,000 miles. That roughly equals 250 hours of run time. How many people will put 250 hours on a walk-behind mower? (Synthetic Oils don't break down over time like petroleum based oils. Case-in-point: Mobil One has run the same oil in a diesel semi for over 2 million miles! The oil shows no sign of breaking down. Yes, they did take the oil out and filter the dirt out of it every 15,000 miles but the oil is still good!)

[@pinomarino8917]

Their lawn mower engines are garbage. They have a plastic carburetor which is prone to problems and never works right. The particular mower in this video uses the Toro engine (made by Loncin). It is far superior and easier to work on than the Briggs or Honda.

[@legostar55]

@@pinomarino8917 I completely disagree with the briggs not being reliable statement. 99% of the issues with those carburetors comes from people using cheap regular grade gas in their mower and leaving that gas in the carburetor for extended periods of time. If you put cheap gas in your mower you are a fool. ALWAYS put good quality gas in your small engine (you at most buy 5 gallons at a time and it lasts a while so the cost us quite small) if you can, put non-ethanol gas in it. If you can't find non-ethanol gas then use Ethanol Shield to treat the ethanol and stabilize the gas.

[@PaulSikkema]

I use 2 tablespoon per gallon of SeaFoam or K100 and have have great results.

[@ricklavoie3703]

Great job bud

[@minoutv7347]

My only wish is Toro would come out with a battery Super Recycler. 😁

[@PaulSikkema]

There's still a need for gas powered for heavy, thick lawns. We have the electric motor tech to compete but I'm not sure people are willing to spend the money on 10 AH high current batteries yet. With todays batteries they would be over $500 each!

[@minoutv7347]

Paul Sikkema If low $500’s I would buy one. I have tall fescue cut at 4”. I need to cut it twice a week, if I miss a week of mowing it’s 8” high. The Recycler can cut it no problem, plenty of power, but it does not chop of the grass blades to bits like the Super Recycler. So I wind up with either some long grass blades on the ground, or have to mow a second time, and even then it doesn’t chop them up as finely as a Super Recycler.

[@alans.4658]

I'm betting we will see one in 2021

[@PaulSikkema]

We'll know by the end of the month...

[@minoutv7347]

Paul Sikkema 😻😻😻😻😻

[@zack9912000]

only way I would buy that is with a Honda motor

[@bextar6365]

TORO Sent you a nice free mower ……...

[@PaulSikkema]

You'd be surprised at some of the "free" stuff other brands try to send...

[@CharlesAnsman]

Your orthopedic Dr. is going to tell you to lose weight, and your cardiologist probably will too. That’s what they told me :-)

[@PaulSikkema]

Yes, that is the obvious answer but the actual answer was something I never knew. A physical therapist taught me how to walk correctly - knee problems solved!

[@chrmartube]

WARNING, VERY IMPORTANT!!! It is imperative that you grease the rear wheels on a regular basis on any Toro model with this type of self propelled. If you do not add grease on a regular basis the friction caused will wear out the gears and grooves which will cause the wheels to bind up when pulling backwards and can also lock up one wheel preventing you from turn one direction.

[@PaulSikkema]

I asked a trusted Toro dealer and this is what he said, "The Rear Wheel is a different one. They have used that drive and set up for ever on Super Recycles even before Personal Pace. We would recommend about 2-3 shots of grease once a year if just residential use. Have I seen people with worn axles yes, but usually extreme use and poor maintenance. We have also seen the ratcheting gear or key stick, due to corrosion or lack of lube. Also the wheels may stick if cable adjusted too tight or if people don’t give the drive a chance to release and drive say into building or tree. No different than any Rear Wheel Drive unit."

[@Computerfly]

My 2002 Model 20037 has never been lubed in 18 years because I've never purchased a grease gun. Also never changed the plug, and still starts on first or second pull every time.

[@briancaine9130]

@@PaulSikkema are there grease fittings? Otherwise, how does one lube? Thank you.

[@PaulSikkema]

Toro considers these "self-lubricating" and doesn't use grease inside the wheel. If you want to follow KZbinr's suggestion you have to remove the wheel and smear grease around the inside of the wheel.

[@skydancerforever]

What a ugly mower. Can't they make a good performer and looking mower these days? Just seen this model with the Briggs engine and it looks better but still not great looking.

[@PaulSikkema]

I agree. They need a red pin strip on the wheels and it would be perfect!