2023’s Best Mid Drive eBike Kit - Better than Bafang BBSHD?

[@chaleowin7732]

Super happy with the BBSHD I've had on my Stumpjumper hardtails the last 2 years.

[@thejaebeing]

Bafang is still king. Ali express sells Bafang bbshd at $500. You cannot beat it even after all these years.

[@hakershock1]

I have BBS02 for 6 years it's still works 💪

[@hixyhicks]

Ive had a Bafang hd motor for over 2 years and done easily 20,000 miles and not had a single problem with the motor,i highly recommend them .

[@judgemally5034]

Wow that's impressive I'm putting one on on a 26er Giant Talon. Super excited about it

[@manoz6194]

Are they more reliable than the BBS02? My first one lasted 2000 miles, the inside was full of salt water corrision and rust. My second one lasted 25,000 miles, bearings became knackered. My third one lasted 5000 miles, PAS sensor failed. I'm still using that one with a throttle to help me pedal

[@Krazycat321]

My first Bafang mid drive lasted 50 miles then I CHASED A ELECTRICAL ISSUE around for 2 years, still not fixed and no good answer from Bafang… not happy.. Bought a second one last week, now the throttle doesn’t work… replaced the throttle, still nothing… now trying the controller… the quality of these things are like a box of Kracker Jacks, you never know what your going to get!

[@geoleo2597]

@@Krazycat321I think you mean a box of chocolates. Haha 😂 Sorry silly me. I couldn’t resist.

[@dragnar12]

@@Krazycat321 i had mine for 6 years no issue. I do replace the greace everyt year tough

[@jeff35372]

Why are you making a comparison with the 1000 watt bafang and not the 750 watt version?

[@VRMinde]

Because the 1kw and 160NM one is even cheaper than this motor?

[@Tonyplat98]

because you can purchase 2 750w bafang motors for the price of this one. duh....

[@umamichefd]

I'll keep my bbshd with a bac855 controller and 72v pack for now. Pushing nearly 4000w the thing is a beast

[@LarryRichelli]

I totally agree with you. The bbshd is a monster and to me way better than the others. It funny how this guy really prefers the cyc motors and I don't get it when you can add the bac855 to the bbshd nothing comes close to it.

[@jamesbenot4475]

I agree and the BBSHD is so powerful and quiet it's crazy. Way better and tougher.

[@eXTreemator]

That's not the only controller that you can add to it. Bac is good but it's closed source and expensive while max power and voltage are not very high

[@umamichefd]

@@eXTreemator the bac855 will push that motor well past its limits if you let it. I have mine limited to 3,750w 60amp continuous. Only other options ive seen are the grin phase/frankenrunner(bac855 based). The Luna ludicrous v2(they won't sell the damn thing to anyone) or the flipsky vesc controllers(not a lot on info on these only know people have made it work). I know a few people have put Kelly controllers on the bbshd but again not much info. If you try to run much more than 4000w through the bbshd for any extended period of time you'll fry the motor. So I don't really see the point in wanting an even higher powered controller then the bac855. What controller are you running on your bbshd build? What's your voltage/ amperage/ wattage?

[@eXTreemator]

@@umamichefd run 5.7kW right now at 90v-10, 120A phase max, threw out that chinese shit bms after i couldn't plug it back it it wouldn't start. I actually sell that vesc kit. There are more controllers with more power but with higher cost. It's possible to add more voltage and amperage but that 10kg battery will be heavy and freehub should be disabled. And i have a modded stator with temp sensor. FW is very heat producing so if it can be replaced by voltage it's better. But battery will be gone very quickly so

[@SnowAngelfish]

Finally! a company making kits with torque senors! Looks like im gonna be checking these guys stuff out for my build! Bafang kits dont have torque sensors and that is a huge deal.

[@Bengy22]

I think the price is just too high to justify the stats. At $950 ($850 was stated as a presale price) you're getting a 750w rated motor with 110nm of torque. This is very close to the stats of the bbs02 at 750w rated 120nm. The bbs02 can be had for under $400 when shopping around, so basically 2.4x the price for less torque but its most notable upgrades are the torque sensor, weight and app. I'm not sure how big the market is for such a motor, as in my opinion at least most of the people who chose a bbs02 are doing so for the lower cost, not because they wanted something lighter than the bbshd. The reason the photon is on paper a lower power motor is because it is or at least rated as one. The "unlocked" 2000w setting will in theory give it more power than a stock bbshd but your taking a 750w rated motor and running over 2.5x the power its rated for. This will cause the motor to heat up very fast and the controller will throttle the power down. This was already seen with a press video a few months back that cyc had taken down a few days after it was posted. In the offroad ride video even at 30a (2000w is at 40a) after 1.2 miles the motor was overheating and throttling power. Compare this to a stock bbshd that's almost impossible to overheat in stock 30a settings and its clear these motors will not really compete, not at least for someone wanting lots of power.

[@lukewalker1051]

Completely agree. BBSHD owner and love the low price point, high reliability and low replacement part costs.

[@andy-the-gardener]

the photon will do well as it fills a gap in the market for a quality, REASONABLY powerful, subtle looking and quiet motor (uk has draconian 250w limit so you want to stay under the radar) that has, essentially, a torque sensor. many people reject the bbshd in spite of its power because it lacks this totally essential feature, and possibly because its too big, heavy, powerful and obviously illigal.

[@whatsit2ya247]

@@andy-the-gardener First of all, Europeans need to revolt that BS right there! And if you're watching USA, don't even think about it!

[@johnnylong2049]

Also the photon fits many other bike frame including some carbon fiber frame.

[@uvwuvw-ol3fg]

​​​@@andy-the-gardenerught the CYC Photon for these reasons but was forced to cancel it due to longer delivery times than stated and uncertainty about thermal throttling issues + repairability issues. Since I don't know all of the future long distance commuting conditions then I was forced to choose something more utilitarian such as now considered to be technologically outdated BBSHD. TSDZ2 as an entry level motor served well so far for testing purposes.

[@robincurwood]

To me the torque sensor is more important,as it would give you a more natural feel.

[@traviseller3770]

That’s my point exactly after riding the other cadence only censored bikes they just feel jerky and as a bike mechanic, they just don’t feel right. I am putting one of the third generation stealth kits on one of my bikes to try it out and I’m really hoping for good things. but if someone is going for throttle, only wanting to ride the thing at 30 miles an hour or faster yeah, some of the other stuff great I guess but it’s not my thing.

[@warlockboyburns]

Any imperfection in torque sensing would be weird.

[@mister-besten]

Have you done it yet and how is it ​@@traviseller3770

[@arthurarsekey6634]

Been running a BBHSD on a commuter and it is flawless - 52V battery puts it at 1500 watt and the readout also goes up to 1500. 27 -30 mile range on a 21AH battery, 30-35 on the flat with pedal assist, have dropped the derailleur for an Alfine 8 speed which works brilliantly with the Bafang gear change cut off. Haven't used it offroad, would buy a proper E mountain bike for that TBH but I still prefer the human powered versions off road. Bike only adds 15 minutes to my 18 mile daily commute on clear roads! And its so much more fun. CYC need to get cracking to beat that.

[@brianbassett4379]

I've used my BaFang mid-drives for over 8 years and have put 48+K miles on a single bike. I prefer a speed sensor to a torque sensor; I don't want someone programming trying to interrupt what I want. I also like being able to use the absolute minimum amount of assistance necessary for whatever conditions I'm in. Pairing a BBSHD with a Rohloff Speed hub is fantastic! It raises the bike to a whole new level. I don't need brake cut-outs and can rapidly switch gears in all conditions. My yearly drive train maintenance has been less than $75. Using 58.8V 35Ah 2058Wh batteries means a _real_ 100-mile range on less than 85% of the pack capacity while riding a loaded bike. No cooking (fully depleting) the battery, even on long rides. I do ride mine "off-road" a significant amount of my riding time. I don't think there is a better mid-drive on the market. - photos.app.goo.gl/ADgC6oyPM2gyrCq27

[@ericthedesigner]

I like the high pitch noise.

[@BroosDager]

If you get an X1 pro, get it with the 72V controller and battery!! Mine has failed twice but CYC took care of the issues relatively well and quickly once I yelled at em.

[@lokz9632]

Since CYC has torque sensor - he is a winner from the start. But there is a new player on the market Toseven DM01 (To7) mid motor. First review was published today. BafangHD price level but with torque sensor.

[@tommyleon201]

Wow !!! Excellent video review that compared 2 popular motors. What ease to understand with your words because I can’t see like many others what is what in the new wave of e-bike kits. I hope this video can be watch for all people that want buy and convert regular bikes in E-bikes. I want say Thank You for your time and for everything you did and for put this video here in KZbin

[@johnnylong2049]

You should address weight and performance comparisons.

[@HomeMcCrae]

i think the photon, also betters bafang, by having ideal chain line, ISIS crank compatibility, built in bluetooth customizable controller in motor and looks like a very large sprag clutch. but i never seen or tried any yet in person, the smaller overall size will also help it to look legal, which could be the differences to be able to actually use it

[@rbaisey8628]

HOW MUCH TORQUE DOES IT HAVE WHEN YOU USE THE 2000 WATTS ?

[@ferguson8143]

Depends on your gearing ⚙️

[@joelresto.juuntitledgtuu4i435]

I'll be experiencing the use of a cyc x1 pro on the ristretto 303fs ebike. I know it's noisy but I kinda like that. Gives the bike more character. Hopefully it will be a positive experience with the cyc motor.

[@andy-the-gardener]

@@samuelptoneythe lack of torque sensor makes the bafang motors non starters for many people.

[@Ubaid163]

No one able to solve my problem. Brother I have an e bike named as Raymon hardray 4.0. It has a yamaha mid drive motor and a yamaha display. I tried to increase the speed of the bike by putting magnet to pedals and removing sensor from its original place.. it worked perfectly but suddenly it stopped working completely. It gives very little peddle assist. Before I could go max 16miles but now the motor doesn’t support 5 miles. The change in the display that appears after this problem is that the range shown on the display is blinking. It never blinked before. Please help me. I haven’t found any video to solve this problem. No one in my area is able to identify the problem

[@SnowAngelfish]

When you unlock it for the 2000w wont that bring it up to the power capability of the Bafang 1000w model ? and plus you get a torque sensor,, seems like a no brainer here...

[@wilsgrant]

What about the Q factor - is this any better than the BBSHD? Every time I ride my acoustic bikes it makes me appreciate their proper Q factor vs my BBSHD.

[@umamichefd]

Lekkie buzz bars helped me a lot with Q factor

[@wilsgrant]

@@umamichefd I have buzz bars on my BBSHD as well. They help with centering the cranks but sadly they do not help with the duck-legged Q factor, in fact they make it even wider.

[@kamaka71]

As far as price goes, for the bbshd, you need to buy a gear sensor, brake sensors, a display and most likely a lekkie bling ring. This pushes the price over $900 so $850 is not so bad. It's HALF the weight of the bbshd and has torque sensing. Also supposed to be very quiet. Much better if you are trying to build an EMTB. Don't get me wrong, i have two bbshd builds but the photon has me very intrigued. #ebikesrule

[@Full_Throttle_no_Brakes]

I got you but you dont need gear sensor and brake sensor, it is optional. No need to lekkie chainring either, there are copies way cheaper on Aliexpress.

[@Tomzuki.]

@@Full_Throttle_no_Brakes Once you actually use the BBS02/HD for a while though, you start to realise that these "optional" accesories should be considered necessary. Yes, the system works without them, but it's a pain to ride without those sensors

[@damianczepiel2912]

@@Full_Throttle_no_Brakes but still you won't get torque sensor which in my opinion is most important feature of ebikes, bafang without gear sensor will kill your cassette and chain, cyc is simply better but you have to pay bit more

[@SnowAngelfish]

I thought those came in the Bafang kit? Hmmm...im Really going to seriously consider this Photon for my build.

[@victorvannatter312]

Spec wide it’s closer to the vacant bbs02. The banfang is still more powerful though at almost 1500w with a 52v battery. And it’s over $200 cheaper than the hd

[@SnowAngelfish]

But no torque sensor.

[@victorvannatter312]

True. But not required. The cadence sensor is excellent on it. And with the programmability, I feel it's not a downside. Don't get too obsessed over torque sensors

[@messor01]

Interesting video, but the point is that the TSDZ2B does the same thing at 500w/48v as it does at 750W, only it's a little more difficult. and much cheaper! Approx. $300!

[@Stupidityindex]

Most of my use is low power. I cut my 350 watt motor to 250 watt level with the controller. I wonder if getting a smaller watt motor is worth getting for running closer to full load efficiency. I like this motor for the 34T chainring. I run a 30T chainring on my 350 watt system.

[@markjmaxwell9819]

Looks good on paper a much better bottom bracket and mount. With two inputs for the controller. Only testing will tell.

[@I2AT]

Does the extra chain raise the risks of getting a shoe lace tangled up in the gear?

[@warlockboyburns]

Have any companies ever made an assist level switcher that changes with the gears?

[@joehiatt1992]

Just recently put a Bbshd on my talon & love it,so I ordered another Bbshd along with a Bbs02 ,looked at the Cyc & even with their recent sale is still too high

[@LanceMcGrew]

Why isn't Tongshen with torque sensor not in the mix? Because it is less powerful?

[@bjrnclausen978]

1:36 My Cheap 750 W BBS02 has a torque of 120 Nm. At half the price. I miss a torque sensor - but you can program the motor pretty easy.

[@wrosslandwr8032]

There must be a good reason nobody can do a good review on this motor showing hill climbing power and the the things that really matter.Also it is said to be silent,but not any good videos on sound either

[@hiphopsuperman]

Golden motor has a great video showing the sound.

[@kamaka71]

It was just released last Friday. 🙃

[@wrosslandwr8032]

@@hiphopsuperman It is not a great video on sound and it does not sound silent

[@hiphopsuperman]

@@wrosslandwr8032 how about the sound comparison done in the video by electrify bike? Not good enough?

[@EBikeBuilder_]

as per usual with CYC, they said its quiet, and it's not quiet, is it actually quite loud.

[@richardjensen3655]

Is the photon motor 100% fixed by metal to the chainring area? The reason I ask is because the Bafang equivalent has next to zero room between them and that means it can't be installed properly on most modern bikes especially carbon. Can this be installed behind an s-shaped downtube or thick carbon tube?

[@Aceyvw]

The photon has a torque sensor. Huge upgrade vs the bbshd. The photon does come with a base display, and on the fly tuning via (at this time, buggy) app. I do question a possible heat issue under higher loads as it does come with a 40A controller. I suspect that is why it is rated at 750W when it is capable of over 2000W out of the box. It also comes complete where the bbshd needs a separate display and programming cable if you want the "tune" ability. Apparently bafang has a torque sensor version of the bbshd. But, if it is canbus based and locked down, they will have shot themselves in the foot.

[@Fenris1on1]

What happened to the seattube motors,,? Would love a 750-1000w one 😁

[@logan.7]

Hey! I was wondering if you could do a video comparing the new Ride1UP Revv 1 to the super73’s and X Classes of the world. It looks like a good balance between the looks of the super73 and the power and voltage of the X Class. I think it would be a good video idea and it would be a good comparison.

[@walkingshimano]

Tongsheng says what!

[@paulschmidtke425]

Wouldn't mind hearing the opinions of tongsheng owners of their motors , particularly those that have higher mileage 10k+

[@Charlemagne1367]

@@paulschmidtke425 Sadly mine lasted about 150km before it started making a very high pitch whining sound.

[@paulschmidtke425]

@@Charlemagne1367 cheers for the heads-up , will steer clear

[@theneondino]

Should've compared it with the BBS02 from Bafang which is also 750w.

[@miningking70]

Excellent video info my e bike brother! I agree with you. CYC Photon is better quality and superior than BBSHD. Plus full I.S.i.S Cranks for $75 more. CYC Photon All Day Long! The New 750 watt mid drive King! Remember CYC must make the 750 watt legalize in the states! But we know 2000 watts peak for the serious e bike riders! Nice, 👍

[@dahensta1]

You mentioned side by side testing but did not follow through with it. Specifically, real time noise recording going uphill 6% grade and flat at 20 mph would be most helpful.

[@MrNosajwhitey]

Do like the look of this version of mid drive better than the bfang

[@andyjame9687]

Highly Recommended!!!

[@buffalomind6838]

If they had come in at 500, or Top $600 they could’ve potentially put a major hurt on Bafang.

[@lucastonoli3256]

Per watt, the Bafang is 8% more powerful. Not a lot, but it is something to consider. The only way to properly measure the impact this has in performance would be some controlled real test to evaluate how each behaves, while in real life conditions, in terms of battery consumption and performance.

[@Stupidityindex]

I think motor rated power is the same. There are some variations in the gear ratios, but the rate of heat dissipation must be pretty close.

[@silvere36]

Is it just me or is the CYC much more compact than the Bafang? Better ground clearance?

[@MoistSnek]

What about using hub drive for just casual riding and mid drive on chain geared for top speed ? Maybe with additional gear? Im gonna try building something like this.

[@ferguson8143]

Mid drive motor you can choose to just cruise or if you want monsters torque you go to you lower gear but take away from top end or you want all top end least amount of torque higher gear or the best of both worlds middle gear pretty much no noise unlike your hub motors

[@ferguson8143]

And use your PAS levels for more power if need it

[@buffalomind6838]

I’m waiting for the next upgraded version. I want it to be lighter, and be able to take a 90V battery. That would make it ideal for much lighter bicycles. It’ll stay out of the way truly stealth, and not contribute that much to when up the bike needs to lifter upstairs etc

[@lukewalker1051]

@@_kardus Yes, power if the photon isn't for me as an owner of two BBSHD's. The larger Proton maybe the ticket but CYC is going to have to suck it up and rein in selling price to compete in this space. Yes, torque sensing is a good feature on the new CYC offerings.

[@joehiatt1992]

Lookin at putting one of these on one of my mtn bikes a talon 2 ,leaning more towards the Bafang 1000 watt,looks like aliexpress has the best price

[@privateinformation5329]

I was expecting side-by-side testing.

[@coreybrathwaite6485]

Can i put the cyc on my fat bike ?

[@T-willy-e7c]

In my opinion the bafang is best for price ,power, and many accessories, is cyc paying you?

[@plokmko0]

750 W is the top output in most US states as in NJ for f-bikes vs motor vehicles that need reg/ins = $$$

[@v1ncen715]

I hope they ll start offering more chairing sizes - 38T is a bit too small and 50T is a bit too big for me... 44T or 46T would be great!

[@ferguson8143]

They say 1500 watts then small print peaks at 1200watts for usa but unlock for 2000watts

[@drill_fiend1097]

Honestly very intered in this product. A cheaper 350W or 500W would be nice though! Not trying to build a blasting moped with my bikes; just something to stroll without sweating.

[@geoleo2597]

Both seem good. But Bafang has been around much longer so their products have been real world tested and improved over time. CYC is very new and seem to have some issues that have not been worked out yet. Not considering fit which the CYC has over the more bulky Bafang, I’d go with Bafang. They’re already OE motors and batteries on some bikes. And Bafang is cheaper

[@yogeshnaik9276]

Very good information

[@christianbureau6732]

what will be the torque with more watts?

[@CD31337]

Torque is dependant on amps

[@Combatcm]

@@CD31337 how about 30 amps?

[@CD31337]

@@Combatcm Need to have manufacturer specs to know any specifics like torque at a given amperage at what wheel size with what gearing.

[@christianbureau6732]

@@CD31337 Sorry for my newbie question, so more watts = speed?

[@CD31337]

@@christianbureau6732 Sort of, it's not that simple. Speed depends on many things like motor winding, gearing, rpm per volt, wheel size, weight.

[@jasondundom1390]

I have the 750 fang mid drive 13k miles and top speed "while peddling my ass off" is 40 mph.. which is great sometimes but gets pretty warm and its still winter here.. the CYC looks like it will be much cooler with all the built in heat sink.. but being so damn expensive with less power, does not justify the swop

[@TechnicalUnderground]

I wouldn't like to ride on silent bike , i love my rear hub 1000w motor noise, a bit like F1 😊 Most important is torque power,top speed!!! And for me distance

[@charlesblithfield6182]

For most apps 1000w is WAY too much. For a commuter bike moderate hills expecting to pedal 350 W is plenty, even 250 W with 70-90 Nm or torque. You have a lighter system, less wear and tear, more range and WAY more battery life at 250-350 w motors. Plus it’s cheaper by half. If you want a sub 18-20kg bike smaller is way to go. I think the public is being oversold on power and torque.

[@ashpunting]

I've got both the bafang motors and they both have built-in torque sensors if you get the eggridder display you can fine-tune or program the motors how you want through the Bluetooth app and the price is better and I've had no problems with either of them 😉

[@cwitham69]

Rory Powell: I also have both the BBSHD & an BBS02. Neither have any built-in torque sensors. What are you talking about? They do however have built-in cadence sensors. The Bafang, Ultra Mid-Drive Motor is Bafang's new-generation motor and does have torque sensing. It is the only motor equipped with a torque sensor, in addition to cadence and speed sensors.

[@krix0043]

@@cwitham69 I had the Ultra for 3years, now sold it, cause I can and will keep only one ebike and that will be the fat folding 20" with BBSHD i got lately. I still miss the torque sensing I used to love on the Ultra. It took me several weeks to at least aproximately fine tune the BBSHD, so it is smoother and not so jumpy, however it will never match the Ultra.... so Yes, I am interested in the Photon as an option for my old hardtail as a future project. :>

[@cwitham69]

@@krix0043 I too went with a 20" step-thru folder for my daily rider/grocery-getter. I built it w/a BBS02-750 but it was way too jumpy popping wheelies every time! I found the excellent tutorial linked below that explains the Bafang programming tool and what to change to tame the beast ;~) kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4PbdnaZas6kmck Here's another one by the same dude: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eaqVg3mmjLGYkJY Enjoy & share these links!

[@bobcatt2294]

No electric motor can top the Bafang for noise and accessibility to parts - full stop.

[@kamaka71]

No electric motor can top the Bafang....so far...

[@Ry-lx2kl]

​@@kamaka71unfortunately mid-drive ebike kits are a niche market that doesn't seem like there is much momentum for newer/better kits. My guess is it will become even more of a niche market as complete ebikes with decent power and reasonable prices are quickly becoming the norm. I hope you're right that competition will come and displace the current crop of mid-bike motor kits and spur competition. However I won't be surprised if 5 years from now not much has changed.

[@Syllaren]

Cyc chose 750 on purpose. That makes it a legal class 3 in most markets. While bafang you could technically get a ticket for driving it without registration.

[@Princesslilly12]

In UTAH- Electric assisted bicycle - A moped with an electric motor with a power output of not more than 1,000 watts and is not capable of propelling the device at a speed of more than 20 MPH on level ground, or increasing the speed of the device when human power is used. My 500w hub does that. I do 30 mph on my bafang 1000w.

[@Syllaren]

@dixonkuntz6909 again "most markets" although it's cool Utah allowed 1000

[@mikesten5443]

what about remember 750 watt is legal limit for USA street

[@CD31337]

Not at that price point it can't beat Bafang

[@glennpaul9140]

Interesting but my bhsd never fails I might to fix the odd throttle or kinked wire but there's no chain or noise . Good review though not the best midrive

[@choppergirl]

For the price of two of those, I bought a whole cherry mint 2007 Honda Shadow Spirit 750cc

[@Ram-re5em]

I’m rear drive all the way baby

[@cwitham69]

All hub motors under 3k watts suck on any serious hills - which I have many of in my neck of the woods.

[@malcolmbooth5656]

Nothing can beat bafang in price and performance even to this day bafang haven't even upgraded yet apart from the bafang ultra which is a different bike build anyway

[@richardjensen3655]

That's true for older thin-framed bikes. Try shoving an HD onto a modern carbon or S-downtubed frame. And see the motor point down.

[@raymondtribunal9539]

If the nomimal voltage of the cyc is 750 you would be better off comparing it to the BBS02. The HD is far better and upgradable.

[@Zach-s5g]

Bbshd only has cadence while photon has torque. I think that’s where cyc distinguishes it from bafang. As for value it depends of you only want the raw power without the pedal feel then sure bbshd wins hands down. But if you want to pedal then thats a different story.

[@jeff35372]

Try the Lekkie bling ring, it's a bit costly yet it solved 2 ebike chain ring issues for me. There are cheaper unbranded lookalikes though not sure of there quality.

[@Zach-s5g]

​@@jeff35372 bling ring is just for the chainring offset. Though, if its pedal is more useful for tongsheng set.

[@MrAdrenaline00]

If you are an aggressive real mountain biker than the splined bottom bracket from the photon alone is worth the extra money. A square taper bottom bracket is something you will only find on Walmart bikes or Super low end mountain and electric bikes. I'm shocked they still even make a square tapered bb, they are a dangerous and frankly the poorest designed product in the history of MTBs. If you are a sit down pavement trail rider than you may have no issues but if you are anywhere near 200 pounds and or like to jump or drop off things then it is a major liability. I know this from experience my buddy wanted to get into riding and bought a cheap bike. On a little 4 stair drop he blew out his crank arm and lost his front top teeth broke his bottoms in half on the stem bar area. I've never heard a man scream like that before. Both his crank arms we're facing down it completely rounded out the non-drive side crank arm. Anyhow I wanted a mid drive for years but I am a big downhill, free ride and park rider therefore I never even considered any of these mid drives until Cyc. Just looking at a square taper bottom bracket in a picture makes my knees weak haha. First company to make a bulletproof bottom bracket and crankset will win as it opens the door to the next level of riders. There's guys that spend $850 on cranks without a motor and when they see that square taper they run. Hopefully this is the answer to the 7k to $15,000 real electric mountain bikes like Yamaha Santa Cruz specialized because I know that's what so many of us are waiting on. We want to build our own bikes into this machine instead of spending 10k on a turbo levo that doesn't even have a throttle option. CYC is in a category of their own just because of that splined feature.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

true , the bafang bbs kits arent really made for eMTB. Bafang has a separate category for eMTB like the bafang Ultra and M620 etc etc with the torque sensing and i believe splined bb. But Bafang's eMTB options are not conversion kits, you would have to buy a bike or a purpose made frame.

[@Lee-ic2yn]

If you're an aggressive mtb rider You'd just be better off buying a proper emtb

[@MrAdrenaline00]

@@Lee-ic2yn that is probably true just the price tag gets pretty ridiculous. I will say I've beat the snot out of the photon for the last month shows I have 270 miles on it so far. The only issues I've had is the motor/bottom bracket coming loose causing the motor to fall down away from the frame. I would say that it is more my fault from a few not so graceful impacts. I do not like the overall design of this motor opposed to the dedicated E bike motor/frame combo but I would run it against any of them any day as far as power. It will absolutely smoke any of them in any scenario. I went with the 34th tooth option mated to an 11-51 rear on a Kona wo fat bike that I primarily used as a dirt jumper. It stands right up in first second and third gear from a dead stop at using only 1100 watts of the 2000 available. Honestly I baby the motor itself because I want it to llast so I am more so putting its structural integrity to the test. Set at only 750 watts which is all you really need for pedal assist first gear climbing and it is mind blowing. It walks right up the steepest obstacles that gravity will allow. I've found that more power is not your friend in steep climbing situations because the torque sensing is so responsive that it can flip you right over no matter how far you can get your weight over the bars. I've also done short spurts of throttle and only to preserve the motor and it has the power to climb literally anything without pedaling. Probably not recommended for long periods but it for sure do it even with a 205lb rider.

[@MrAdrenaline00]

@@Lee-ic2yn I originally intended to put it on my GT sanction Enduro rig and keep the battery in a backpack but these mid drive conversion kits will not work on any gt mtb due to their floating bottom bracket system. The motor floats away from the frame when suspension is compressed. Cool thing about this system is to adapt it to different size bottom brackets all you have to do is order the appropriate axle and bearing cup. All the spacers you may need for all size bb's come standard with the kit. Sorry to go on but there's not much real world information out there on these so I figure I should share. One thing I also found is that fat bikes are about the smoothest riding trail rigs out there especially when you find the appropriate tire pressure. You can absolutely shred these things up or down and they are a blast on dirt jumps.

[@geraldhenrickson7472]

Lets agree to disagree. There was a time when the square cranks you describe was all we had. I still have several high-end bikes with that feature. They work fine and are not the only old school features that did not need improving. We didn’t need tapered headset or thru axles either. Never confuse marketing features for that which you really need. Ride what you have and don’t be a spec junkie.

[@danwoods8195]

yea thats a hard sell, i can get a 750w bafang hub motor for like 300$ and install it into my bikes in 1 day, idk if id buy those unless i lived on a mountainous hill. Nice vid tho.

[@kamaka71]

Yeah but hub motors kinda suck compared to midrive. I guess it's more about riding style..

[@EBikeBuilder_]

@@kamaka71 if you are on high voltage hubs can be better on the streets, the shift sensor slows down the bbs. But soon as u get off the road bbs is better

[@sjv6598]

Tongshen? They come with torque sensor…

[@mappel3]

if only the Photon had more torque it would be a no brainer. Olso Because of the much nicer torque sensor it has vs the old tech speed sensor on the BBSHD

[@whatsit2ya247]

If you're watching BAFANG, let's make with the torque sensor already!

[@do-ineedtosay723]

BAFANG: And while you're adding a torque sensor, how about reducing the form factor of the battery so it can fit on smaller frames! *

[@Tonyplat98]

Bottom line Bafang does it best. That's why they're #1

[@russellzauner]

*laughs in TSDZ2*

[@ericfleetwood6744]

Because the CYC is a torque sensing eBike kit, perhaps you should be comparing it to the Bosch, rather than the Bafang.

[@markwedderburn3147]

Tongsheng anyone?

[@johndopamine7614]

If you read into their warranty info they basically claim to precheck every unit and refuse to accept returns. Also using components from anyone else voids the warranty, so you either have to overpay for their $900+ battery or build without a warranty. Even if you do get to accept a warranty return there's a 30% restocking fee and 10% handling fee on top of 2 way shipping cost. The higher models seem to have decent stats, but good luck if there's shipping damage or a weak connection comes loose, because they checked and it was working before it was shipped. It's sad to choose between a modded that was designed for much lower amps or something supposedly designed for high power with a company that doesn't seem to want to back up their products.

[@damianczepiel2912]

hard to compare mid with and without torque sensor, almost impossible. Cyc with torque sensor will give better biking experience and that is a lot for 100-150$ more, don't really need 160Nm or more, even 80-100Nm will be enough, if you want go 60mph get motorbike :-)

[@ShardCollector]

The motor is looking awesome, but the price is very steep. Combine this with quality battery and you are in properly integrated ebike territory, while still looking like a diy project, which it of course is. Paying premium for 750W motor isn't very appealing when you are legally only allowed to use 250W * But the torque sensor is a must for the motor to feel natural at all, so there really aren't many choices. I doubt anyone will come and check what you have, unless you are driving with throttle, which is also illegal. But 750W is still way too much for the drivetrain longevity...

[@crustytoenail1110]

I've heard cyc will be releasing another product called the PROTON. Maybe it'll be what Bafang's bbshd is to their bbs02

[@georgekrpan3181]

The BBSHD has a problem, it's gear reduction is inadequate. The size of the reduction gear is limited by it's housing, any bigger and it hits the chainstay. The whole point of a mid drive is to utilize the bike's transmission. Yet the BBSHD falls flat on it's face in high gears, the revs are too low and the motor bogs. You have to ride it in a low gear to get the most out of it. It's supposed to be pedal assist yet at speed there is no pedal resistance and pedaling is useless. Might as well be using a stinking hub motor.

[@Sheisintomalakasdino]

BBsHD is 1300 CAD with battery right now 2-7 days delivery, proton is 993 USD for the motor and 793 USD for the battery with Handling time of 3-5 weeks after confirmed order and 1-2 weeks for delivery. Tax not included. Hell no to the proton.

[@geoffreyjones5910]

Yea, the photon is 2000 watts unlock-able, BBSHD is 1600 watts unlock-able. Now compare them.

[@__aceofspades]

They raised the price to $950

[@JerryTitus]

Tongsheng TSDZ2B

[@mattwhitney167]

That chain drive would suck

[@TheBarrettrussell]

apples to oranges.

[@colincampbell4261]

Tongsheng tsdz2.

[@alexisentonfire]

do your research before making a video, 2 min google search, you compare it against the bbshd and not the bbs02 bafangs popular 750w smaller variant

[@bs8716]

Derp

[@edwarding4355]

750watts? Should be illegal in the city centers

[@williamcmills]

I'm in Los Angeles and I'm not sure that the city centers you are referring to exist. It is all car sewers and I need all 750 of those watts to be able to safely take a lane. While I agree that a high powered ebike in the wrong hands can be bad, I have a little trouble applying the we must limit ebike power logic when cars are a much bigger threat and good car behavior is completely left to the discretion of the teenager whose parents just got them a muscle car. I'd like to keep my power and continue to have my consideration and ability to ride for conditions dictate my speed.

[@Exo_carbon.24]

Bafang not loud at all comparated to cyc

[@SD_Alias]

Let people drive 20000-30000 km first and report on the reliability. It's still too new and too expensive for me. I also distrust the stability when the engine is so small and light. This high pitch sound is something i do not like.

[@Lee-ic2yn]

I know it's superficial but these conversion bikes look terrible compared to the purpose build ebikes

[@jltub]

Lol how about baying a fully functioning ebike

[@cwitham69]

$$$$ + low (legal) 750w power.

[@colinriches1519]

All three kits are massively overpriced. You can buy a ready made, decent ebike and still get change for that money. OK it'll be hub drive, but there's no way they're ever getting money like that out of me for a weak motor. I built a scooter that does 60mph with 72v 20ah battery and a 3 kw my1020 motor for under a grand. These motors you're showing us are an absolute rippoff! Will never waste money on anything like those, not even worth £200.

[@moa-wg3bo]

you are getting a lot more than just a motor...

[@cwitham69]

Interesting. Can you please link to some pics of your build? How does it perform on real hills?