2025 Genesis GV80 3.5T AWD is Luxury That Should Be On Your Radar

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Driven Car Reviews With Tom Voelk

Driven Car Reviews With Tom Voelk

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 125
@OneHungLee
@OneHungLee 5 ай бұрын
Hey Tom, the reason why you don’t see more of these on the road is lack of dealerships nationwide. What I’ve read, Hyundai/Genesis has not enough dedicated Genesis dealerships; making a good product but not following through as a far as brand promotion. I just moved to Whidbey Island but spent 30 years in the San Francisco Bay Area (Napa Valley) and was always amazed about the absolute lack of dedicated Genesis dealerships. What I’ve seen is that a large amount these GV 80 luxury vehicles are sold at Hyundai stores. That’s like selling Cadillac at a Chevy dealership or Porsche at a VW store. I wish Hyundai would treat Genesis like Toyota treats their Lexus brand. It’s really Hyundai’s fault that you don’t see more of these cars on the road.
@dgdave2673
@dgdave2673 5 ай бұрын
Second that, the shoddy and unprofessional treatment I got at a lousy Hyundai dealership selling this GV80 made me runaway ! Happy owner of a X5 PHEV which is phenomenal!
@DrivenCarReviews
@DrivenCarReviews 5 ай бұрын
Yup. And they know it. The pace is picking up, the pandemic put a big dent in the effort. The next few years will fix that. It's working toward only dedicated showrooms.
@SirT80
@SirT80 5 ай бұрын
Can understand the frustration. My brother was interested in a Hyundai Ioniq 5 last year and it felt very odd seeing a bunch of Genesis vehicles hanging around the lot. My brother isn’t that familiar with Hyundai or Genesis and was confused by seeing them sharing a dealership. The good news is Genesis recently announced an additional 26 dealerships to be built, bringing the total to 35 (three in the Chicago area).
@lvjb
@lvjb 5 ай бұрын
I can report that the service department at the dedicated dealership in Santa Monica is just as horrendously incompetent as the one at the Hyundai dealership I was going to previously.
@williamlambert5610
@williamlambert5610 5 ай бұрын
Most people don't know this, but the actual blame lies with the American dealer network, not the parent Hyundai group. Hyundai had already tried to force the Hyundai dealerships to build out separate Genesis showrooms years ago, but a bunch of dealership owners SUED Hyundai to prevent that. The automotive dealership association is actually one of the most powerful lobbyists in the country, so Hyundai group has no choice now but to tread carefully while dealing with and appeasing these idiot dealership owners. If Hyundai group had full control of the logistics in the US, there would already be Genesis dealerships everywhere years ago.
@zainansari7303
@zainansari7303 5 ай бұрын
Absolutely adore my Electrified G80 which I bought after seeing your review, Genesis remains my favourite automotive company. I've put over 50,000kms in a bit over a year. I look for excuses go drive it, being green is a massive plus as well!
@genesisg7022
@genesisg7022 5 ай бұрын
The dealership that I take my Genesis G70 3.3T, has a dedicated Genesis Concierge. Their stand alone Genesis dealership should be opening soon.
@mauricetremblay1324
@mauricetremblay1324 5 ай бұрын
I loved my G70 and our GV70 is even better. Fuel economy is good as well but we have the 2.5L not the V6. One of our neighbours bought a GV80. What a great looking vehicle. If they come out with a hybrid, that will be the next one!!! Cheers
@Brayant25
@Brayant25 5 ай бұрын
Waiting to get this with Hybrid engine. Genesis will be building Hybrid/ plug in hybrid engines next year.
@normanbataille8865
@normanbataille8865 5 ай бұрын
The Coupe is your guy then.
@jeromecha1
@jeromecha1 5 ай бұрын
Tom, You’re definitely a class act. I’ve watched several reviews on the new 2025 GV80 & not one of the reviewers mentioned that Genesis paid for them to be there! Maybe it’s a given but I truly appreciate you mentioning this fact. Loved the review and looking forward to buying one of these this year. Subscribed!
@DrivenCarReviews
@DrivenCarReviews 5 ай бұрын
I think it's important and try to mention it. And I'm kind of a homebody so if I don't get invited, fine.
@simplyeric12
@simplyeric12 5 ай бұрын
Your way of narrating these videos is beyond another level! Thank you.
@AnyAssumptionBanter
@AnyAssumptionBanter 5 ай бұрын
I'm so very glad for the honest pro and con's opinion. Often times you only hear something silly like the color their test car came with is not appealing. Wonderful shots. I could just imagine a pickup at the soccer field after a wet game with that white interior... ha
@DrivenCarReviews
@DrivenCarReviews 5 ай бұрын
Well, FWIW, I didn't care for this color. 😉 The Norr Green Matte looks lovely. Would be a chore to take care of though.
@greyareaRK1
@greyareaRK1 5 ай бұрын
Gorgeous, but a real shame about the lack of EV or hybrid options.
@RunEmDownTony
@RunEmDownTony 5 ай бұрын
It will definitely benefit Genesis to start incorporating hybrid power trains to their vehicles especially their SUVs. They have been significantly lacking behind the competition when it comes to fuel efficiency. And although this means price will rise even more, it still will be beneficial. Nevertheless, this is a beautiful machine and I'd buy one ASAP. What turned me on to Genesis and my father owns one, is the new G90. He had an Equus back then and he loved it, and now I'm in love with his G90. I love Genesis uniqueness. Right now hands down this is absolutely my favorite brand! Now when and if they come out with the magma models, oh I'm on it!
@dgdave2673
@dgdave2673 5 ай бұрын
the shoddy and unprofessional treatment I got at a lousy Hyundai dealership selling this GV80 made me runaway ! Happy owner of a X5 PHEV which is phenomenal!
@RunEmDownTony
@RunEmDownTony 5 ай бұрын
​@@dgdave2673 Yeah I guess I can understand that, but you shouldn't let the Hyundai dealer experience turn you away from the experience of a Genesis product. I can't speak on that type of experience because when my pops bought his G90 it was from a Genesis dealer, which is still rare these days. I will tell you that the service where you schedule an appointment for regular car maintenance and they give you a courtesy call and let you know they're on their to pick up your car and drop the loaner off is pretty sweet!!
@toyotaprius79
@toyotaprius79 5 ай бұрын
Over a decade late
@jonathang6522
@jonathang6522 5 ай бұрын
In Metro Atlanta, I see more GV80s on the road than Lexus RX. We also got two new stand-alone Genesis dealerships, both built within the past year.
@Tmrfe0962
@Tmrfe0962 5 ай бұрын
Tom, you’re correct…this is a great vehicle. I am going to their build site to see what’s available. I love the look nd their reliability is a plus.
@rajsiva
@rajsiva 5 ай бұрын
Love our GV70. However, the dealership we bought it from closed. Since I live too far away from the next nearest one, I do not get the concierge service that was promised. Now i have to drive an hour one way to get any service, if I can get an appointment on time. Until they develop their dealer network, I would advise anyone to think twice before buying into this.
@dgdave2673
@dgdave2673 5 ай бұрын
Sorry you kind of got conned there. That’s expected of these Korean dealers and makers. Bait and switch is their tactic.
@JTMC-f9w
@JTMC-f9w 5 ай бұрын
I couldn't be happier with my GV80. I do not like the new (2025) infotainment screen that replaces part of the built in dash cluster. The new screen looks cheap...again, so glad I bought the '24 model. Great vehicle... and btw, my Genesis dealer in TX City, TX is absolutely wonderful. Yes, currently operating thru their Hyundai shop but Genesis is building a state of the art, all glass showroom/dealership not far from current facility.
@thomaswattle9828
@thomaswattle9828 5 ай бұрын
yes, that screen does look cheap and distracting
@jamesdavid6451
@jamesdavid6451 5 ай бұрын
Great job Thomas!
@shrichaudhary
@shrichaudhary 5 ай бұрын
Great review. I completely agree with your take. I would even like to see a full EV powertrain in the GV 80.
@KBWarrioR2018
@KBWarrioR2018 5 күн бұрын
No genesis servicing in western Australia?
@kiranchaudhari
@kiranchaudhari 5 ай бұрын
I love love of Genesis. I am waiting for hybrid to get one.
@Vanguard1987
@Vanguard1987 4 ай бұрын
Really nice review. Thank you
@JarmelSingsKaraoke
@JarmelSingsKaraoke 5 ай бұрын
Super Nice interior
@avothfis
@avothfis 5 ай бұрын
Love the 2 line design. Elegant and sets it apart from other premium brands
@Alex-se3uy
@Alex-se3uy 5 ай бұрын
Personally, I would consider the Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Reserve for the more rugged option while still maintaining luxury features. I agree with your other competition mentions though too.
@marciag2526
@marciag2526 4 ай бұрын
Well, I will be purchasing this vehicle. In October 2024, I want to change the rims I do not like them. I'm interested in the 2025 Prestige for the seat stitching mainly.
@michaelgarvin8621
@michaelgarvin8621 5 ай бұрын
Beautiful SUV! Great interior! Great review and information👍👍 Now only if I can afford one lol..
@marioseoul
@marioseoul 5 ай бұрын
Greetings from Korea! Certainly I've seen plenty of these here. All Genesis models are abundant. Also seen more Maybachs than probably exist in the whole USA. Still never had the chance to ride in a Genesis though. Nice review ~
@DrivenCarReviews
@DrivenCarReviews 5 ай бұрын
I need to get there someday.
@soyelmismo17
@soyelmismo17 5 ай бұрын
Is capri blue similar to Adriatic blue? They look the same
@yass123
@yass123 5 ай бұрын
@2:57 everyone and their mother has complained about this and they still haven't addressed it. Mercedes' column shifter is the best solution in the auto industry.
@thomaswattle9828
@thomaswattle9828 5 ай бұрын
no problems on my end
@europec2082
@europec2082 5 ай бұрын
I would have liked for the screen to be mini led
@amigatommy7
@amigatommy7 4 ай бұрын
Waiting for a fix to the 2 nobs close together. Samer on the GV70.
@kevinjones2798
@kevinjones2798 5 ай бұрын
Nice Review. A non plug in Hybrid would have been Great. Optional illuminated door sills would have been nice as well. Lastly Aluminum pedals would have been an awesome option, if not standard.
@Doodelz02
@Doodelz02 5 ай бұрын
I'm good with the confusing nob-thing'ies. I'm old, but thinking a few days in and I'll have it sorted!
@Doodelz02
@Doodelz02 5 ай бұрын
Cwap... didn't mean to be rude. Really good review.
@thomaswattle9828
@thomaswattle9828 5 ай бұрын
easy to get used too
@BixbysDad
@BixbysDad 4 ай бұрын
Hi Tom, firstly I want to say I loved your review. Very well done. Unfortunately I'm rethinking buying the 2025 GV80 for two reasons First im not a fan of the way the 27" screen looks like it's just glued there. Not very high end at all. IMHO it should be built into the dash, have a slight lip of the dash over the top to block sunlight and give it some style. Also, I don't like dial shifters and never will. Range Rover Sport has a small shifter and looks great. Or, put it on the steering column ala Mercedes. But! The Hyundai Sonata has it!! And the dash of the Sonata, looks too similar to the GV80! I'm also not walking into a Hyundai dealership and buying an $80,000 vehicle. Genesis needs to step it up.
@DrivenCarReviews
@DrivenCarReviews 4 ай бұрын
First, it's a noticeably better screen than Sonata. Second, it doesn't need a shroud since it's a very good screen. Style? That's subjective. If you don't like dial shifters you never will. So maybe the RR or Mercedes are better choices. And yeah, the dealerships (or lack of dedicated ones) is a sore spot. The vehicle itself is quite appealing.
@jimbv2168
@jimbv2168 5 ай бұрын
Thanks!
@DrivenCarReviews
@DrivenCarReviews 5 ай бұрын
Thanks jimbv7168! Very much appreciated.
@Supernaut2000
@Supernaut2000 5 ай бұрын
Ouch, $82K USD is well over $100K CAD. Not worth it for a car to get from A to B. Instead I bought a lightly used Lexus NX200t type 3 F sport for $26K (no tax, full maintenance history, extra set of winter tires on rims, etc.) and it has tons of tech, etc and all I really need (probably too much) for going A to B. Happy Motoring!
@zoner__
@zoner__ 5 ай бұрын
22hwy is a deal killer
@AyoBrownKid
@AyoBrownKid 2 ай бұрын
Can you review the new Mercedes Benz CLE 450 please
@asamcclellan290
@asamcclellan290 4 ай бұрын
Genesis is expanding - big time. Hyundai's luxury brand announced Tuesday it's opening 26 new stand-alone dealer facilities across the U.S., bringing the total to 35 facilities.May 15, 2024
@DrivenCarReviews
@DrivenCarReviews 4 ай бұрын
Yes, Genesis was making a big deal out of that. Keep in mind Lexus has 245 dealerships in the US alone.
@amigatommy7
@amigatommy7 4 ай бұрын
I think all Genesis gave the best milage in "My Mode" or "Smart".
@amigatommy7
@amigatommy7 4 ай бұрын
Pushing on the G90s turf.
@TinLeadHammer
@TinLeadHammer 5 ай бұрын
Not another humongous lifted wagon. Square screen? I see a rectangle. The combination of expensive-looking leather seats and the utilitarian screen is jarring. At least they seem to use the screen the way a dot-matrix screen should be used, that is, for a huge map. Someone tell Hyundai that chicken wire, even a double-wire, does not look expensive. The review is top-notch as usual.
@springertube
@springertube 5 ай бұрын
I agree regarding the tacked-on digital screen, with its isolated, sparse "setting" especially. While it may be the trend, amazingly - even among the higher end market, this execution sends it downmarket if anything...as suggested, particularly jarring juxtaposed against the otherwise luxe interior. I keep looking to see if there is an option for at least a minimal hood, even if not "needed" for glare! But...if you have to do the panel thing, others - including even some of its lesser Korean family, and especially Cadillac (etc, Esplanade) - do the digital screen much better, at least with some curve-form, with a more substantive, elegant appearance... like at least some design thought was given to it. It's been said many times about such applications but bears repeating - it looks like an afterthought - "hey, we forgot the driver's info and infotainment!" We all know it's done to cut costs (not passed on to the buyer, btw) with the added bonus to satisfy the fanboys of in-your-face tech (at all "costs"), but still... The shifter is also a continuing miss, but particularly glaring spaced as it is relative to the other similarly-shaped controller (or vice versa), nearby.
@TLW896
@TLW896 5 ай бұрын
Regarding the shifter: it isn't YOU Tom. Most people STILL like to SHIFT a car into gear, not feel as though they are turning on their clothes dryer at home.
@christelcoffee9397
@christelcoffee9397 3 ай бұрын
Like the brand, but it's the interior colors that I don't care for. If it came in a beige with blue or blue with beige across other trims as well. The colors of the storr green and the Capri blue you really can't use the ambient color because the colors will clash with the interiors. Beige is neutral and all black works too with the ambient lighting. Thought I'd mention that. And for the amount of money it should come with a spare tire😒
@DrivenCarReviews
@DrivenCarReviews 3 ай бұрын
There are plenty of colors that work in all the cabin colorways. Maybe make friends with a graphic designer.
@beri232
@beri232 5 ай бұрын
They are absolutely beautiful and luxurious cars…. but I’ll never buy another one!
@larryTX415
@larryTX415 5 ай бұрын
Why?
@beri232
@beri232 5 ай бұрын
@@larryTX415 ours was not very dependable when the temps got below -25 celsius and the dealership experience was the worst we have ever had. They don’t have a very good dealer network here either.
@denault3985
@denault3985 5 ай бұрын
I think the exterior is starting to look dated but everything else is just fine. The V6 is the best of the Genesis, Hyundai & Kia powertrains.
@dgdave2673
@dgdave2673 5 ай бұрын
To get what? 16 mpg in City and 21 hwy? 😂
@damilolaakanni
@damilolaakanni 5 ай бұрын
​@dgdave2673 with those fuel economy numbers, you'd wonder why they didn't fit a V8 in this from the start.
@ejohnson3131
@ejohnson3131 5 ай бұрын
That’s what I’ve always said about Hyundais and Kias. They introduce a new design language every 2 years trying to copy their competitors, so their cars look dated after 2 years.
@femiogunsola5436
@femiogunsola5436 5 ай бұрын
Dated?. You have no clue what you are talking about
@dgdave2673
@dgdave2673 5 ай бұрын
Whatever they may aspire to be, 81K ain’t getting them any customers, the X5 and GLE has this market taken completely, slightly below them RX is the king. MDX has improved a lot too.
@TinLeadHammer
@TinLeadHammer 5 ай бұрын
Thirty five years ago they said the same about Lexus, Acura and Infiniti.
@JTMC-f9w
@JTMC-f9w 5 ай бұрын
They got me as a customer at $83k. If BMtroubleU, Mercedes and Acura are such great cars, why don't they back it up with a warranty like Hyundai/Genesis? I didn't know much about Genesis when I went shopping (I had owned 3 Hyundais and loved em), so I looked at several brands... BMW, Audi and Mercedes. After driving the GV80, I bought it that day.
@beri232
@beri232 5 ай бұрын
Agreed!
@thomaswattle9828
@thomaswattle9828 5 ай бұрын
Oh geez, this is gonna piss of the Beemer and Benz boy's
@ScottMorgan-im7vv
@ScottMorgan-im7vv 5 ай бұрын
Decided twice against buying one because the Hyundai dealer (only option for me) experiences were so awful
@ejohnson3131
@ejohnson3131 5 ай бұрын
6:49 huh? 🤔 We are the ONLY… in fact one of the ONLY…
@makimbell_
@makimbell_ 5 ай бұрын
I think he means "luxury ANYTHING" the second time. The only Korean luxury automotive, and one of the only Korean luxury brands of anything. If that's what he meant, then why even say the second part, lol. We're talking about cars, I don't care what else Korea makes.
@normanbataille8865
@normanbataille8865 5 ай бұрын
Waiting for my Storr green glossy GV80 with Earth brown color/smoky green interior. I can't wait for this baby to come to me. The Coupe looks good but the regular GV80 is a classic I won't let go. Gas consumption here in Dubai is not a biggie, something I can bear for the other things I get with this beauty.
@Doodelz02
@Doodelz02 5 ай бұрын
Brilliant choice. Hope you love it!
@amigatommy7
@amigatommy7 4 ай бұрын
I heard that "mouse fur" :}
@HY_Clara
@HY_Clara 5 ай бұрын
X5 is the best!!
@beri232
@beri232 5 ай бұрын
Being a Lexus guy…. I have to agree with you. BMW has really picked up their socks on the X5 and that B58 reliability matched with European performance. X5 is a slam-dunk!
@thomaswattle9828
@thomaswattle9828 5 ай бұрын
traded my M4 in for a Genesis after I went through a second gasket repair
@dw00ds
@dw00ds 5 ай бұрын
Aside from the whole issue with not enough Genesis dealers/centers to deal with their supposed "luxury" badge and pricing - they'll never be on the level of a Lexus because they are horrendous on gas consumption. I know it's a heavy SUV, but they really sacrificed too much when it comes to that...city driving is abysmal with a V6 and in the long run, not really worth it considering how high gas prices are and will likely remain.
@DrivenCarReviews
@DrivenCarReviews 5 ай бұрын
I'll argue that fuel economy is not the top consideration for luxury brand buyers.
@thomaswattle9828
@thomaswattle9828 5 ай бұрын
if you can afford the car, you can afford the fuel.
@robertwheaton4115
@robertwheaton4115 5 ай бұрын
Did you say Mouse Fur in the glove box ????????????
@JTMC-f9w
@JTMC-f9w 5 ай бұрын
yes, the rest of the mouse corpse is smartly installed in the center console.
@robertwheaton4115
@robertwheaton4115 5 ай бұрын
@@JTMC-f9w So, why are you getting nasty? Let's agree to disagree that is Does Not look like a lifted Station Wagon. P.S. if it wasn't Mouse fur, then, what was said? I'm just asking
@DrivenCarReviews
@DrivenCarReviews 5 ай бұрын
Not REAL mouse fur. The soft (synthetic) lining is often called that.
@KoreanAmericanLawyer.NewPortBe
@KoreanAmericanLawyer.NewPortBe 5 ай бұрын
Hyundai Kia are light years ahead of BMW BENZ and AUDI
@otreal
@otreal 5 ай бұрын
I just wish the Genesis service departments weren’t such trash. The dealer experience, great. Anything related to servicing - absolute worst
@thomaswattle9828
@thomaswattle9828 5 ай бұрын
my sales through service has been A+ in Tulsa
@emmagyamfi8686
@emmagyamfi8686 Ай бұрын
The reason is not popular like lexus because is not hybrid consumers are tired of high consumption cars or suv's.
@JustMe99999
@JustMe99999 4 ай бұрын
The "two line" thing ruins what is otherwise a nice exterior.
@malsfram8089
@malsfram8089 5 ай бұрын
Echoing other sentiments. Great vehicle, disgusting dealership experience. Coming from a BMW X5 to a Genesis GV80.
@beri232
@beri232 5 ай бұрын
Sold my GV80 largely in part to poor dealer network but more-so the service. It was atrocious! Dependability was poor in the winter as well.
@kylek2794
@kylek2794 5 ай бұрын
Had no idea Rick Steves was doing car reviews
@Funfare454
@Funfare454 Ай бұрын
"This interior is progressive" no thank you I'm a trump voter
@DrivenCarReviews
@DrivenCarReviews Ай бұрын
Annnnd... rimshot
@dgdave2673
@dgdave2673 5 ай бұрын
The shoddy and unprofessional treatment I got at a lousy Hyundai dealership selling this GV80 back in 2022 made me runaway ! Happy owner of a X5 PHEV which is phenomenal! GV80 3.5T gets a super lousy 16 mpg in City, who in 2024 wants such a dinosaur 🦕? Unless they put Hybrid or PHEV, I will never be a potential customer.
@TinLeadHammer
@TinLeadHammer 5 ай бұрын
I don't think they care. They want actual customers, not potential ones.
@LetMeCook86
@LetMeCook86 4 ай бұрын
Those wheels are not it.
@richardg8712
@richardg8712 2 ай бұрын
MASSAGE SEATS ONLY ON DRIVERS. SEAT IS A HUGE FAIL
@DBLG65
@DBLG65 5 ай бұрын
Looks over styled. Too many dual this and that. Screen IMO would look better built into the dashboard. I don't like all the Chrome accents.
@Doodelz02
@Doodelz02 5 ай бұрын
There's a "Black chrome" option, although I’ve only seen it on the preliminary GV-80 coupe so far.
@arshadrizvi007
@arshadrizvi007 5 ай бұрын
Never buying a Hyundai. No matter what vehicle they come out with
@toyotaprius79
@toyotaprius79 5 ай бұрын
Just plain dull and nasty. If this is what automakers are relying on as a business model, then no surprise when we also see the market as a symptom an anemic and deeply unequal economy ripe for collapse, Again Why haven't Stellantis imported the Citroën C5X to you yanks yet as a rebadged Chrysler? Seems stupid not to.
@JTMC-f9w
@JTMC-f9w 5 ай бұрын
I understand you live in a horrible 3rd world country where your most formal clothes consists of t-shirts from the 1995 NBA championship game; however, that's no reason to be disdainful of the quality of a resplendent vehicle that you will never own... no matter how many drugs you might mule across the Atlantic.
@soyelmismo17
@soyelmismo17 5 ай бұрын
I will never be part of your “we” call me your unequal … were good😂
@reserva120
@reserva120 5 ай бұрын
It’s loss it’s “ perceived price point advantage “ even if the guy said 23 sales increase, yet as you say you don’t see them ( the suicidal massive price increases affecting the car market- is sickening ( who’s it suicidal to builder or buyer remains to be seen , but one ).,
@reserva120
@reserva120 5 ай бұрын
But if sales increase from 10 to 12.3 cars , you’re still not going to that many ..
@johnsingleton1924
@johnsingleton1924 5 ай бұрын
I always felt The Genesis Brand is a luxury car knockoff pretty much like Lexus. I rented a 2022 G90 off Turo & I saw nothing original or unique. Most of what I noticed infact was a host of goodies from Audi & MB bin. Infact the shape is a bogus version of the A7. The power train is weak if you have driven true premium vehicles. And with it's lowest and worst customer satisfaction rate according to JD Power US Sales Satisfaction Index...... I'm not shocked that I don't see more of these.
@Bae-w6u
@Bae-w6u 5 ай бұрын
Audi is 2nd lowest, with BMW no 5 at segment average. ( 2023). JD Power place Alfa Romeo no 3. !!! Do you take this rating seriously ?
@thomaswattle9828
@thomaswattle9828 5 ай бұрын
roflmao.. wow .... just wow !
@Tmrfe0962
@Tmrfe0962 5 ай бұрын
Tom, you’re correct…this is a great vehicle. I am going to their build site to see what’s available. I love the look nd their reliability is a plus.
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