21 Pilot

In 1982 Jack Barry & Dan Enright decided to try to bring back the infamous 21 game show. It wouldn't make it back on the air for another 18 years.

[@jesselockhart1230]

Jim Lang is without his glasses!! Haven't seen that since his early Dating Game days.

[@terracottapie]

I swore I thought I remembered him without glasses on Name That Tune. But I googled it and there he was with glasses.

[@snotloutisagod2956]

The opening theme was the final portion of Alan Parsons Project's "Don't Let It Show", "Hyper-Gamma Spaces" for the contestant intros, and "Nucleus" for the part where the contestants enter the soundproof booths.

[@MDCSWildcats86]

Was the "think" music at 5:19 from APP as well?

[@brothergaryii]

That was hosted by Wink's old friend - Jim Lange, who previously hosted "Bullseye," who was also "under contract" with Barry & Enright, with his old friend.

[@TheMisterJ]

This is amazing! I've only been able to find poor-quality clips of this episode until now! Gotta love the music by APP.

[@khenry320737]

Steve Nadeth... from "Scrabble" fame, having won over $76,000, including the only ToC in that show's history.

[@BenJabituya]

Thanks for sharing this, Wink. After watching "Quiz Show", I loved the concept of this game show.

[@LeoVargas94Oficial]

The randomizer from the bonus round was later used in the 1985-86 version of Break the Bank.

[@user-yh6us2jk8t]

This guy is like the key to unreleased pilots of forgotten or well known game shows!

[@illustriousrocket4476]

I wouldn't have minded seeing this make it to series. It would have made for a nice followup to Bullseye.

[@JosephPratt1986]

Interesting game show! It was also taped inside of Studio 33 at CBS Television City!

[@rwboa22]

Which was also where the later seasons of "Bullseye" were taped. The pilot, with the $1,000,000 top prize, and the first seasons, were taped at the old NBC Burbank Studios where according to a story, Johnny Carson gave a thumbs up to the set.

[@LeoVargas94Oficial]

The theme is the final portion of "Don't Let It Show" by the Alan Parsons Project.

[@brianschwartz1372]

This was taped exactly two months before I was born.

[@theodorehsu5023]

When it did, it happened around the time of the heyday of the US "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?" David Legler won $1,765,000 in 2000, making him the biggest winner of the Maury Povich NBC run. It would also make him the 8th highest winner among US game show winners.

[@robertlehman1337]

That had to been taped at CBS Television City Studio 33 same studio of Price Is Right Match Game 1973-82 Card Sharks 1986-89 Wheel of Fortune 1989-95 Family Feud 1988-95

[@bobthetvfan]

I agree that the questions were like those on "Tic Tac Dough," but I want to know where the 10 and 11 point questions were. Those were the ones that created the ties on the original show (never mind that the contestants had the answers in the '50s). Someone mentioned that the show couldn't have worked because of CBS's $25,000 limit at the time. The show just happened to be taped at CBS Television City; it was intended for syndication and could have been turned down by the CBS-owned stations. And yes, it was supposed to replace "Bullseye." And yes. too. Jim Lange was better than Maury Povich also not as dramatic as Jack Barry. This was my first look at this version and I'm sorry it didn't get on the air.

[@ericandy88]

I am going to guess it still had somewhat of a taint even 2 decades or so after the scandals. Even if it got picked up, it may not have lasted long.

[@someguy23475]

The theory I heard was they reused old Play the Percentages questions, which were worth 10 to 90 points based on what percentage answered incorrectly. A bad idea.

[@MDCSWildcats86]

There were no "10/11 pointers" on this version, only 1-9's. Jim Lange explicitly mentions this.

[@steve760]

Interesting. In the wake of the quiz show scandals, Jack Barry ended up selling the rights to four of his games to NBC. NBC owns Tic Tac Dough, Dough-Re-Mi, Concentration and 21, and has for at least 50 years now. But in 1978, he ended up producing a reboot of Tic Tac Dough, and then he produced this pilot for 21. I'm wondering how he pulled that off.

[@marcpower4167]

May have "leased" the rights from them. Mark Goodson did that to produce Concentration (the Jack Narz hosted era) and Classic Concentration.

[@BlaqC]

As promised elsewhere, here's my 21 story. I was a contestant on the Québec version (Vingt et Un), which followed these rules: 1-11 point questions, three questions maximum, one strike for a wrong answer (3 strikes and you're out), one "ask a backstage friend" lifeline per game (a wrong answer gets you 2 strikes), players secretly asked whether they want to stop the game after 2 rounds. My focus on strategy earned me the dubious honour of causing producers to panic and stop tape! On this version, the challenger played last. After the second round, when my soundproof booth was activated and host Guy Mongrain asked whether I wanted to stop the game with 13 points, I couldn't hold my excitement back and, with a gigantic smile, exclaimed "I'll stop the game!" A few moments later, there was confusion on the set, then they stopped tape. I was stuck in my booth for several minutes until someone came to ask me why I'd reacted as if I knew what had happened during isolation. My next memory is of being outside the booth, on the set, recounting my rationale to an exasperated producer. There had been no technical issue. I had been as isolated as I was supposed to be. Can you guess what made me so happy? Answer below.

[@BlaqC]

My episode wasn't the first to be taped that day. I spent several games in the audience, watching a frighteningly-knowledgeable champion win game after game, in two rounds each time. 10 points, 11 points, boom-end the game and win with 21. 11 points, 10 points, boom-end the game and win with 21. Each time, the same strategy: aim for 21 in two rounds. Being less knowledgeable than the champion, I knew my only chance at winning was to ask for two midrange questions (to maximize my chance at answering correctly), earn just over 11 points, and cross my fingers. The champion never deviated from his two-question strategy. This gave me what was meant to be impossible: one single bit of knowledge about the game being played outside my soundproof booth. After two rounds, he would either stop the game with 21 (and the host would inform me the game was over and I'd lost) - or, if the host instead asked me whether I wanted to stop, it meant the champion missed one or both questions and had a maximum of 11 points. Again: ➡️ the only scenario where I would be asked whether I wanted to end the game after two rounds was if the champion had 11 points or less. ⬅️ Just the fact of being asked "do you want to stop the game", in itself, would reveal crucial information I wasn't supposed to know. I answered my two questions correctly. I even called upon my lifeline to be sure I didn't flub a question out of misguided pride! And if I recall correctly, this was the first game in which he missed a question. So after two rounds, he wanted to continue the game, my booth came on, and Guy Mongrain said the words I'd been praying to hear: "Voulez-vous continuer la partie?" "Yes, I do!", I gleefully exclaimed. Which freaked the producers out! How could I be so certain about ending the game? Did the headphones malfunction? Did I perceive some sign from the darkened audience? These booths had a bulletproof design-contestants could neither see nor hear anything from the studio when isolated. That's why the producer was so aggravated when she asked me what happened and I proudly recounted this entire strategy. I had done nothing wrong, but boy, did I make the show appear to be rigged! (Francophone Québec audiences wouldn't know about the Twenty One scandal, but the producers sure did!) Once reassured that I didn't cheat and there was nothing wrong with the isolation booth, I was sent back in and we resumed taping. I wound up winning three games (but, embarrassingly, flubbing the bonus game every single time on stupidly-easy questions) before meeting my match. I'll never forget the experience of my fine strategy and cheerful demeanour causing a game-show taping to come to a screeching halt.

[@DBR00]

Are the contestants able to see the audience? Perhaps they can see audience clapping to know that their opponent answered the question correctly?

[@DXKramer]

@@DBR00 The audience was probably darkened so the contestants couldn't see their reactions.

[@marcpower4167]

@@DXKramer on the Maury Povich era they said the contestants can't see the audience because of the way the lights hit the glass but they can see the host.

[@MMB18abel]

The Win Music would later be used in THE JOKER'S WILD bonus round. Hal Hidey did the composition.

[@bluebear1985]

Interesting that Barry & Enright wanted to give this show another go, considering that the original version caused so controversy in so many ways. Maybe it was just too soon.

[@rwboa22]

Also that NBC still owns the rights. If Sony would gain the rights from Comcast, I could see this coming back as a mid-summer run.

[@steve760]

@@rwboa22 Sony would be a logical choice, since they own the Barry/Enright game shows not owned by NBC, but I don't see it happening.

[@MDCSWildcats86]

B&E actually did a show called PLAY THE PERCENTAGES, whose final format was essentially 21 without the isolation booths.

[@Singingboy1978]

Oh wow, I found an OOPS at time index 12:13 when Mr. Lange referred to the continent of Africa as a "country!" LOL

[@ericandy88]

Paging Drew Carey.

[@gilwood7530]

I'll have to look for that...I caught one about a month ago on an old game show ...Biggest countries ...ANTARTICA ????????? Really ?

[@mrceleb2006]

No earphones in the the iso-booths!

[@CartoonsAndGameShows]

Should've been sold, I like it.

[@witherblaze]

CartoonsAndGameShows 30 years later, it did.

[@LeoVargas94Oficial]

@@witherblaze 18 years, that is.

[@CrestwoodRocks]

1982. That probably was Jim Lange's show after when he hosted Bull's Eye.

[@robertlehman1337]

You can tell that it was taped at Studio 33 at CBS television city same studio where Price is Right Match Game 1973-82 Card Shards 1986-89 Body Language 1984-86 was taped

[@DBR00]

I always liked Jim Lange.

[@TheNinjaTurtleDude]

This pilot was fine. But I like the Maury version better.

[@danmonticello4164]

me to Maury is better

[@AaronBruceLadner]

Maury was the Original Host of A CURRENT AFFAIR

[@pacdude5000]

I agree. Maury’s version was multiple Choice, which is better

[@someguy23475]

Maury’s was the worst. Too dumbed down, and a gimmicky second chance. The 50s version, game wise was the best. Wish it wasn’t rigged.

[@DocIdaho]

The 50's version was best, but rigged. Multiple choice is for morons.

[@roysanders7245]

I recognized him from “Bullseye” as a contestant from 1980.

[@roysanders7245]

Jim looks different without his glasses in this 1982 game show pilot. I am more used to seeing him with glasses.

[@georgemaster9952]

Jim without glasses...interesting!

[@drquuxum]

At 0:52, you can hear The Alan Parsons Project's "Hyper-Gamma-Spaces". A little surreal.

[@VahanNisanian]

drquuxum I thought it was "Don't Let it Show".

[@Scrabblerouser]

See my reply to Greg Palmer's question below. :-)

[@LogoMan7777]

***** That's the opening theme. "Hyper-Gamma-Spaces" is the contestant introduction cue.

[@OnScreenThatStudios]

I was thinking that Barry & Enright decided to secure a spot to air on CBS or NBC after Tic Tac Dough was cancelled by CBS Daytime in 1978.

[@angrybirdsfan2003]

Or maybe ABC.

[@zacheryalderton7797]

I love Jim Lange

[@DrummingWriterTrekfan84]

With (R.I.P.)The Ledgendary Charlie O'Donnel(pardon my spelling) Announcing the show! The same Charlie that was famous for announcing Wheel Of Fortune!

[@davidduquette1970]

And I believe the 100,000 Pyramid

[@steve760]

@@davidduquette1970 Did anyone NOT announce Pyramid? :)

[@kurttoy5035]

Johnny Jacobs for one. I bring him up because when I first saw the original Pyramid some time àfter its 1973 debut I thought Jacobs was the announcer, this was before I found out it was based in NYC.

[@Scrabblerouser]

That number generator they used for the bonus round looks familiar. Was it the 1985 "Break the Bank" they used that for, determining how many bank cards a team would get?

[@andrewschroy6368]

Yup! :D

[@Tubewings]

I never understood why Jim Lange choose to not wear glasses for this pilot when he had been wearing them on-camera for over a decade by this point (the earliest I've seen him wearing specs was in a 1970 episode of "The Dating Game").

[@pgtcf7806]

Maybe he had broken his glasses and hadn't received his replacement pair yet...plausible I guess.

[@whirliebird74]

My theory would be that if Jim Lange wore glasses, it might reflect the scores off his glasses, making the contestants able to see their opponent's score, thus affecting the integrity of the game.

[@pgtcf7806]

You know, I never thought of that, but you're right Woodie.

[@rodney1279TheFlip]

Woodie B. Good point Woodie B. He looked great None the less.

[@wschmrdr]

Perhaps he needs them off to read the questions.

[@thymemasters8902]

Anyone else notice how the bonus round is literally impossible to lose? You can give yourself the first number and then every of the next numbers to the computer to force it to bust and you automatically win.

[@BlaqC]

You can't give the computer infinite numbers; like a blackjack dealer, it freezes on 17 or above.

[@Almafeta]

The cash-stealing and point-losing rules were rough. Marie went two perfect 21s and got a lousy $8000, while the champion (who went 20 (in the previous game), 21, 17) lost 1/3rd of his winnings. And the endgame had all the strategy of Acey Deucy. The set was gorgeous in its simplicity though. The physical question carousel was a neat touch too.

[@MDCSWildcats86]

The cash-stealing/point losing rules are from the original 21 of the 1950s.

[@SigmaRho2922]

The rules were discarded for a 3 strikes rule for the show’s 2000 revival.

[@OGNoNameNobody]

Ooof. -1 for the lack of a 'Spoiler' tag.

[@TheCharlesJLee1000]

Wasn't Steven Nadith was on Scrabble in 1985 in the Tournament of Champions?

[@andrewschroy6368]

He was-- defeating Annie McCormick to win a $49,500 jackpot.

[@cg0825]

Jim Lang would've been a better host than Maury Povich was in the 2000 version.

[@johnissoevil]

Jim was better than Maury Povich

[@DBR00]

The lie detector determined that you are telling the truth!

[@nextbarker2702]

Image if Jack Barry hosted this pilot?

[@pgtcf7806]

This should have sold as a replacement for "Bullseye" and had a 3-5 year run. It had my undivided attention.

[@LogoMan7777]

+James Greek It was syndication. Had to be.

[@JEMQueen]

when you saw the ending 21, it looked like a station ID more then the title of the show, kinda weird isn't it?

[@lakebay972]

yes, it almost looks like the one KTXA in Fort Worth used back in the '80s

[@JEMQueen]

no wonder this never became a series until NBC picked it up in 2002 with Maury Povich

[@andrewschroy6368]

lakebay972 And what KAME in Reno used back then, too...

[@johnnyballenatl]

JEM Queen 2000, actually.

[@briansmith2990]

I was surprised that this wasn't picked up. There have been far worse programs that have been picked up.

[@mattcrowley8993]

21:55 If she gave the computer a 9, it would not end well for her.

[@dan1701a]

The end game was a little kludgey. Basically like blackjack.

[@BlaqC]

Although the format is legendary, this pilot was weighed down by endless exposition. Much of the audience doesn't care for math (remember how they dumbed down the Shatner version of Show Me The Money) and Lange's endless discussions of each question's point outcomes gets old real quick.

[@hockeybagged]

I like this pilot though the bonus round is a little weak.

[@terracottapie]

These questions are WAY too easy. A 5 point question out of 10 is "name the Coliseum"? Romulus and Remus? Come on.

[@nextbarker2702]

Was this the only game show where champions could LOSE money?

[@AaronBruceLadner]

Stephen Nadeth later Appeared on SCRABBLE.

[@rongamble8930]

12:11 - is Africa a country or a continent? Make up your mind, Jim!

[@archibaldcabebe6062]

And this was before a similar debacle in Whose Line for Drew Carey

[@Ian16545]

Not bad here, Jim. But you'd be better off just hosting "Bullseye".

[@MikeHL78]

If I had been hosting this pilot, I would have likely said something about Bo Derek @ 15:56... ...and then @ 16:15, I would have wanted to crawl into a hole for sabotaging the game. lol.

[@taofanarchy96-renzomaracas14]

Nice pilot, it just need a major overhaul in the format and the influence of a British imported show to make this show on the air- OH WAIT, IT DID HAPPENED

[@bmhedgehog2]

Guess like no one liked the bonus game. I think that why that pilot didn't take off. I would like to see the other 21 (in this case Blackjack) pilot.

[@RolandTaylorJr]

I kind of did like the bonus game, but nothing else on this pilot episode. Also, that board that the numbers spun around on in the bonus game looks like the one from the 1985 version of Break The Bank

[@LogoMan7777]

RolandTheBigBootMan Yeah, aside from the APP music and the bonus game, nothing really stood out.

[@MilkLikeSubstance]

A rating from 1-9? Must've recycled Tic Tac Dough questions...

[@rwboa22]

The 9-point questions do borrow from Tic Tac Dough's center box questions, which are two-parters, but two answers from the same question.

[@QHMCQ]

Terrible bonus game. I always wondered about Twenty-One, including this incarnation, can the contestants see the host from inside the booth? If so, and I'm in the booth, I could probably read the host's body language. Also, if the other contestant's taking a longer time with the question than I did, I'd probably think it was the 2-part question. The one time in here, Jim walked back to the podium and then resumed asking the question, which would seem to me another hint. I dunno. I can see why this didn't get picked up.

[@mshroye2]

Eric McHugh The booths were designed so that the lighting blocked the contestants view of not only the audience but I believe the host. Also they played music in the booth and since they didn’t know each other’s scores if I were inside I’d be thinking either they’re doing a hard question or just racking their brain on an easier question.

[@marcpower4167]

Maury mentioned before on his version, the contestants can see him but not each other or into the audience and they added audience noises to the music to keep the contestants in the dark. I've noticed contestants can get a hint from where on the card Jim's reading during their opponent's round. They fixed it though on the quebec version (vingt et un) by giving the host a tablet to read the questions from.

[@BlaqC]

@@marcpower4167 Do you mean that Jim would place his thumb under the question being read? Such a "tell" is disappointing. I was on Vingt et Un! Fun anecdote in another thread.

[@BlaqC]

@@mshroye2 Yes, if the host spends a lot of time on your opponent, it can indicate that they picked a two-part question.

[@JoeyLamontagne]

The bonus game was really unnecessary

[@johnissoevil]

A B&E game of the 80s without a bonus round would have looked awkward, necessary or not.

[@timglende8869]

The bonus game board looks a little like the Fame Game board on Sale of the Century (which premiered 7 1/2 after this was recorded.

[@danbarker4857]

s 21 the only TV game show, where returning champions can lose money if they get defeated?

[@andrewschroy6368]

Winner Take All did that, too.

[@bobthetvfan]

The 1950s version of "Tic Tac Dough" deducted money from the loser's total, if any. Both it and "Twenty-One" were, as I'm sure you all know, Barry and Enright productions.

[@marcpower4167]

Joker's wild had it early on too, where if you won 4 games (later 3) in a row, you won the joker's jackpot. But if you gambled and lost, your cash winnings were lost and added to the jackpot.

[@BenJabituya]

Earlier seasons of "The Joker's Wild" did that practice, too. If the champion's cash is at risk.

[@jhillst]

What would they do on this game if they had two new contestants, and the loser had no money to forfeit to the winner?

[@andrewschroy6368]

+jhillst My guess-- winner gets the money from the house depending on how ahead they were of the losing opponent. Losing opponent would get parting gifts.

[@scootover7]

This is okay but not as good as Maury Povich version.

[@Ultimate23Dragon]

I'm curious as to how there could be a reigning champion with $20,000 if this was the pilot, which usually mean first/test episode... unless they somehow brought back the very last 21 champion from years before...

[@marcpower4167]

Not uncommon for a "pretend" champion on pilots.

[@DBR00]

@@marcpower4167 Also, some of the contestants are sometimes actors on these pilots.

[@sillyolryan]

If this was a pilot, then I'm assuming the contestant introduced as a "returning champion" was made up?

[@ordinaryk]

Yep. The "contestants" go into the pilot knowing that they won't actually win anything, but they must have been compensated in some way, as there were several pilot contestant regulars in the 70s and 80s, such as Jack Campion.

[@bencalebrod]

+Kenton Cernea You can tell it was staged too, by the fact that the production slate said 'tie' pilot.

[@wschmrdr]

Obviously wanted to test situations, but could have contributed to why it didn't sell (aside from the game having some serious flaws that led to the rigging).

[@LogoMan7777]

All right, here's a two part question. This pilot was scored by a British progressive rock group who had five Top 40 hits in the United States. First, name the band; and second, name one of the songs used in this pilot. (TTD thinking time)

[@Scrabblerouser]

"Don't Let It Show" is at the beginning, in the opening theme. They add some horns to it to make it their own, but the very beginning is the song itself. "Hyper Gamma Spaces" is used for the contestant introductions. "Nucleus" appears to be used when the contestants go to the isolation booths. Apparently, the producers were fans of the Alan Parsons Project, and the "I Robot" album in particular.

[@LogoMan7777]

"Hyper Gamma Spaces" came from Pyramid. I don't think I've ever heard "Nucleus", though.

[@Scrabblerouser]

You're right about Hyper Gamma Spaces. The other two are on I Robot, though.

[@terryleemangrumii8566]

I didn't want to say this, but the 1990s version of Tic Tac Dough should have had Charlie O'Donnell announcing, music from Alan Parsons Project (mainly from this pilot) instead of Henry Mancini, and should have been hosted by either Jim Lange, Jim Peck, or TTD '85 host Jim Caldwell!

[@cutemimi25]

Marie: 10 Jim Lange: We don't have 10 Me: You will when NBC picks it up in 2000 when Maury Povich hosts it

[@JimmySand9]

Jim: What’s a Maury Povich?

[@steve760]

@@JimmySand9 I'll take Talk Show Hosts for $2000, Alex.

[@thewkovacs316]

first question was wrong judaism is an eastern religion....the mid-east is not the west

[@williambone7724]

Maury Povich did this show much better.