217. Israel - Palestine Debate w/ Yaron Brook

Robert Breedlove hosts and moderates a contentious and detailed debate between Saifedean and Yaron Brook on the roots of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
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Saifedean’s first book, The Bitcoin Standard:
saifedean.com/thebitcoinstandard
Saifedean’s second book, The Fiat Standard:
saifedean.com/thefiatstandard
Saifedean’s third book, Principles of Economics:
saifedean.com/poe
Enjoyed this episode? Join Saifedean's online learning platform to take part in weekly podcast seminars, access Saifedean’s four online economics courses, and read his writing, including his new book, Principles of Economics! Find out more on Saifedean.com!

[@dameanvil]

04:54 🇵🇸 Robert Breedlove, the moderator, shares his initial views on the Israel-Palestine conflict, stating that he was previously unaware and had a limited perspective, but now views Israel as having a significant advantage over Palestine and engaging in what he perceives as a campaign to seize land. 10:58 🇮🇱 Yaron Brook presents Israel as a country that protects individual rights, contrasting it with authoritarian regimes in the Arab world. He argues that Israel, while not perfect, is a place where individuals can flourish, citing examples of Arab citizens' rights and technological achievements. 19:59 📜 Yaron Brook discusses the history of the conflict, asserting that Palestinian leaders have historically opposed Jewish presence in Palestine and engaged in violence, contrasting Jewish efforts to build industry and improve Arab lives with Arab attacks and massacres. 27:06 🏠 Palestinians leaving their homes in 1948: Most Palestinians left their homes voluntarily, encouraged by Arab leaders with the expectation of a swift Arab victory over Israel, not because they were forcibly expelled by Israelis. 32:24 🛑 Debunking land ownership claims: Contrary to claims, by 1945, Zionist migrants to Palestine owned only 5.67% of the land, not bought as suggested, but through government confiscation, leading to a significant shift in land ownership. 39:03 💼 British role in land acquisition: The British played a significant role in establishing a Jewish homeland in Palestine, ignoring the property rights of the predominantly non-Jewish population. 45:32 ⚖ Palestinians' right to return: Since 1948, Palestinians have been denied their right to return to their homes, facing land confiscation, internal displacement, and restrictions on land ownership based on ethnicity. 49:23 🏛 Israeli government's expansionist policy: Israel's refusal to define its borders and continued expansion into Palestinian territories highlight its ethnically-based socialist government with monopolistic land policies. 51:26 📜 Fabricated history: Yaron Brook dismisses Saifedean's arguments as fabricated history and criticizes historians like Ilan Papé for bias. 52:45 🧾 Refuted claims: Yaron Brook argues that claims made in documentaries and books, such as the expulsion of Palestinians, have been refuted and lack evidence. 54:19 🔒 Property rights: Yaron Brook defends Israel's ownership of land but condemns government ownership, advocating for privatization, and rejects discrimination in land ownership. 58:53 🛑 Disputed narratives: Saifedean challenges Yaron Brook's narrative, dismissing claims of Palestinian expulsion and arguing against collective guilt. 59:51 🔍 Lack of Palestinian representation: Saifedean highlights the absence of Palestinian government representation during the conflict's origins, emphasizing dispossession by the British. 01:14:15 🏛 Zionism, as perceived by Yaron Brook, is fundamentally a project of self-defense, rooted in the idea of establishing a state where all citizens, regardless of religion, are treated equally. 01:22:22 🌍 Understanding the origins of Zionism and its imposition on Palestine reveals it as an alien concept, born from 19th-century Eastern European ideologies, conflicting with the historically diverse coexistence in the region. 01:30:11 🏠 Saifedean argues that Israeli policies, especially regarding property rights, have resulted in the constant displacement and suffering of Palestinians, exacerbating conflict rather than promoting peace. 01:37:06 🛑 Saifedean asserts that the romanticized narrative of Zionist settlement in Palestine overlooks the violent expropriation of land, deliberate displacement of Palestinians, and the failure of the Zionist vision to achieve peaceful coexistence. 01:37:21 💰 The Palestinian-Israeli conflict involves government intervention and central banking, which have fueled catastrophic consequences. 01:37:57 🧠 Yaron Brook refutes Saifedean's assertion that Plan D involved expulsion of Arabs, labeling it as fabricated history. 01:38:41 🇮🇱 Anti-Semitism is acknowledged by Yaron Brook as a reality, attributing its rise partly to historical persecution faced by Jews. 01:39:37 💼 Yaron Brook argues that Jews were expelled from Arab countries, attributing Palestinian exodus to their own choices rather than forceful expulsion. 01:40:59 ⚔ Saifedean highlights the role of government intervention in the conflict, citing European nationalism's influence and Central Banking's impact on funding war efforts. 01:55:09 🏛 Saifedean attributes the perpetuation of the conflict to Central Banking, which funds Zionist expansionism, facilitated by European and US support. 01:56:33 💸 Saifedean argues that without Central Banking subsidizing conflict, Zionist expansionism wouldn't be sustainable, emphasizing the role of monetary policy in arming Israel. 01:58:07 🌍 Saifedean advocates for privatizing land in Israel/Palestine to facilitate peace, criticizing the current government ownership that restricts individual property rights. 01:59:14 🏡 Israel-Palestine conflict roots extend to violence, land disputes, and killings since the 1920s. 02:00:10 💰 Central banking criticized, but not unique to Israel; U.S. arms embargo on Israel until 1967. 02:01:32 🌐 U.S. support for Israel wasn't immediate; skepticism existed pre-1948. 02:02:41 🛂 Israel's borders are defined, except for the West Bank; Gaza left in 2005. 02:04:33 💼 Israel's courts often rule in favor of Arabs on property disputes; denies systematic discrimination. 02:05:03 🚧 Central banking's impact acknowledged, but not seen as primary cause of conflict. 02:06:53 🤔 Achieving peace involves recognizing Palestinians and Israelis as people; property rights key to stability. 02:10:13 ✊ Property rights emphasized as essential for peace; Palestinians' return to land advocated. 02:11:07 💔 Palestinian dispossession by Israel cited as ongoing injustice; calls for recognizing lived experiences. 02:17:03 🛑 Peace requires Palestinians to renounce violence; calls for cultural shift towards freedom and property rights. 02:45:22 💔 Palestinian refugee crisis extended due to Arab world's failure to resettle; contrasts with typical refugee crisis resolutions. 02:46:21 🌍 Peace elusive due to Palestinian rejection of opportunities, dedication to violence, and destruction of Israel. 02:47:15 🏠 Israel's respect for property rights evident in thriving Jewish villages in Golan Heights, contradicting accusations of systematic violations. 02:50:57 🔄 Collective guilt assigned to Palestinians criticized as morally unjust, highlighting complexities in group identification and culpability. 02:52:21 🕊 Advocacy for individualism and property rights as pathways to peace; emphasizes education on freedom and self-interest. 03:06:14 🔥 Conflict rooted in violation of Palestinian property rights during Israel's establishment; ongoing issues in settlements exacerbate tensions. 03:07:45 ⚖ Critique of Israel's foundation on confiscated land highlights ethical dilemma; condemns Western support despite Palestinian suffering.

[@fredabennett3784]

I would pay to hear Norman Finkelstein debate delusional Yaron Brook.

[@YogaladyToronto]

My compliments to the host/moderator! It’s appreciated that he kept time well snd prevented the guests from talking over each other.

[@BatmanBoss]

Thanks

[@TheGreenleaf247]

Lol this guy had no idea who was in the cage with him.

[@emoshunless]

Good moderator. Yaron rocked it. Thanks for sharing.

[@bigbonanza6385]

Absolutely excellent content. Learned a great deal.

[@akoben]

"I condemn government ownership of land, settlements, nationalism and initiation of force...but" Yaron Brook

[@ashdraked]

Him and Walter block are like that unfortunately

[@TheBrianna4555]

@@ashdraked Difference is Block claims to be an ancap. Yaron is adamant that he is not and despises anarchy.

[@MrOreoman11]

Yes, there is something relevant that comes after that but. I don’t know what you think you prove by showing that Yaron believes there are exceptions to things. The sky is blue, but around sunset it’s orange. Toxic chemicals are bad for you, but for people with cancer they are life saving. Likewise, private property and individual rights are a great institution that should be guaranteed to people who are not violent. Murderers shouldn’t have property rights; we put them in jail. You do not grant rights to a group of people who are violent towards you.

[@akoben]

@@MrOreoman11 making exceptions for his murderers

[@yanivreif7379]

Looool And who will enforce property rights if not the state!? You people are fucking clowns

[@pgupta2341]

There is no collective "property rights" of the Palestinians, property rights apply to individuals which they each earn - there can be no "Palestinian property rights" for a regime that oppresses it's own people let alone doesn't recognize rights of its individual citizens. To say Israel & the West in general should respect property rights of Palestinians is absurd. Just how did the Palestinians earn or obtain the so-called "their property" for which they have been demanding "property rights" for 100 years? "Property rights" come from a system devised by a civilized society once established via respect for life, law & reason (enlightenment) - property & property rights cannot be demanded by barbaric means & expected via dole from or threat to those who respect & maintain it - it doesn't come about by praying to Allah. It's an hard-earned achievement costing sweat and blood once you've given up mysticism, tribalism & using brute force to obtain things and developed enough to use your mind and energy not to hate but to build, be productive, raise the standard of living for you and the society you live in. With so many examples of a more civilized society around them the Palestinians should want to join them, follow their example and not want to destroy, rape & pillage them.

[@Carla39894]

In Israel, one of the Supreme Court is an arab. Is this apartheid?

[@dennisne]

They literally have roads in the West Bank that only jews can drive on :P. I also see the time-lapse maps of Palestine being eroded away by that Zionist virus. You think that's a natural peaceful free-market phenomenon? Palestinians just willingly giving up more and more and more land? ;) Clown.

[@jessiejb4684]

And millions live under military law, have separate roads where they are not allowed, checkpoints, lack freedom of movement, and live under threat of their homes being demolished and property taken. It is at least a form of apartheid. You can say that’s the West Bank under the PA, but after decades of occupation and settlements, at some point we have to recognize the reality in the ground.

[@HeilIsrael]

@@jessiejb4684bro that’s because those people refused to become Israeli citizens… and then attacks came from Gaza which meant that they had to check for bombs and guns. I mean it’s like locking down the Mexican border..

[@JoceLaGosse]

Reminds me Russian invasion. Nobody really know the conflict reasons... To me it's always : who benefits from wars?

[@newintellectual.]

As an Ex-Muslim atheist, I totally agree with Yaron Brook. He correctly conveyed the mentality of the Qur'an regarding the unbelievers. Good job Yaron.

[@BehindTheCurtain_Truth]

Ignoramous.

[@MrOreoman11]

I’ve struggled on deciding my stance about this issue, but after listening to Yaron, it’s clear to me that Israel is the moral side. I don’t think any honest person could hear this debate and still not see it.

[@Weg-tx7jb]

Look up the combos: Hamas motorcycle suspected drag 2015 npr

[@alexandrosparaschou246]

The moral side? Are you for real? The Israeli IDF literally executed a 6 year-old girl in the car she was traveling, after executing her entire family and then the medics that tried to save her. This is just one horror story out of many reported by main-stream media. You must either be a bot or insane if you are arguing for the moral side of israel.

[@romanahowe67]

So the idea of stealing land and property from its rightful owners seems attractive to you. Hopefully it will not happen to you or to your land...

[@lucabertagnolio9166]

@@romanahowe67 if you *really* think that the conflict between the arabs in Palestine and the state of Israel is all about property rights, I am afraid you are completely blind to the fact that most arabs are just interested in killing the jews, and be done with them. That of property right is just a red herring, while the real issue of this conflict goes a lot deeper than just that, and it's quite clear what it is by simply listening to videos of arabs in Palestine chanting against the jews, and in favour of their elimination. Property rights means little to nothing in Palestine to begin with, as there are NO real rights since it's an islamic theocracy which requires full obedience by all the subjects. Arabs in Israel have rights, in spite of what Saif says, and can and DO live next door to Israeli jews. Jews in Palestine cannot even set foot without being slaughtered. This is the real issue, not property rights.

[@yanivreif7379]

@@romanahowe67 Oh for god sake the ignorance of some of you is mind boggling! You had 2 million people in Korea that was forced to move in the same decade, you had 14.5 million people who moved between India and Pakistan in 1947, you had 2 million Germans that moved from (what was called back then) Czechoslovakia and the list goes on and on… All of this examples happened at the same period of history. The only thing that is unique about the Palestinians is the have been refusing any type of deal or solution for that last 80 years… The only solution the agree to is “Free Palestine from the river to the sea” or war. There are consequences for starting a war and than losing it. In other words: they’ve been playing a zero sum game for decades now and they don’t understand why they lost so much.

[@mikeplaced3111]

BTC is property? QED, BTC is subject to property rights & self determination, agree? If agree, isn't this the beauty of the new financial system managed via immutable blockchain vs property rights controlled by a centralized entity?

[@authenticallysuperficial9874]

Incoherent

[@mikeplaced3111]

@@authenticallysuperficial9874 said talk all about property and rights.. but yeah whatever

[@Carla39894]

Why do you ask about the lies of Pappe and then block my answer? So you know it is true that he lies all the time but you don't want anyone in the chat to read where he lies

[@Carla39894]

Palestinians agree that arab countries encouraged them to leave

[@dennisne]

Source. And leaving != GIVING AWAY ALL YOUR STUFF TO DIRTY RACISTS.

[@guzinkarides3871]

Yaron disingenuously phases over Plan Daket involving the Haganah's military offensive against Palestinians in the 1948 war.

[@tamerkhayat2862]

❤

[@BatmanBoss]

Great debate. Sounds like both groups of people have been victimized and also have been aggressors. I pray peace will prevail.

[@Weg-tx7jb]

But there is a difference in suicide bombing civilians VS going after those that would try to carry out those acts of terror.

[@ctsirkass]

Jews must accept the only constant in this world: most of the world is out to get them. I believe this is why they are so strong and so clever. They wouldn't survive otherwise.

[@romanahowe67]

not true, now people are against them only because they have been committing genocide for the last 76 years on the Palestinians, the rightful inhabitants of Palestine!

[@Weg-tx7jb]

"70 AD. There were no Jews in israel....." how the hell would anyone know that?

[@raphael3666]

also there were many Jews living post 70 AD in Jerusalem and especially the Galilee region. That is where the Mishna and Talmud Yerushalmi was written

[@sashaxalavic4272]

Personally for me, Yaron was much more convincing

[@alexandrosparaschou246]

Convinced through denial, delusion and insanity.

[@louiselamontagne2322]

Yes, Yaron was honest.

[@toddwarner1892]

islam is the issue

[@micchaelsanders6286]

Yaron is absolutely right

[@romanahowe67]

more convincing because you approve of stealing other people´s land and homes, right, and then driving them out or killing them if they refuse to leave, very humane of you...not. Shame on you!

[@Weg-tx7jb]

What about the Jewish "nakkba" from Arab lands?

[@romanahowe67]

Mossad Hagannah and other terrorist zionist groups orchestrated that on themselves so that they would attract more Jews to improve the demography of Israel....

[@samg9400]

Yaron categorises the criminal Israeli activity as a few bad eggs and condemns it. He doesn't see his own hypocrisy when recommending collective punishment for the same thing on the opposite side. Is this the best you could find to defend the zionist project?

[@romanahowe67]

there is nothing better, they come in different variations but they simple not have proper arguments, no evidence to prop up their lies with soo these zionists are always the same!

[@jespersandberg6646]

Does Saif even understand anything Yaron is saying? Time and time again he tells Yaron to address something he has already addressed, and misunderstands every argument.

[@Anonymus-qp2mb]

This will educate you all this history perhaps not fully nut at least the start of it. Also show who these Israelis really are ?

[@anchorweight957]

17 minutes in. South African apartheid hospitals had white doctors treating black patients, not sure about the other way around though. But I'd say that invalidates his point.

[@naoualyousfi2642]

Reading the comments before listening to Mr. Ammous’s argument, I really thought that his argument was weak! But I see that he refuted every one of Aron’s bit of misinformation, and provided solid proofs and arguments, which made Aron look either ignorant and confused, or straightforward lying.

[@Carla39894]

Jewish settleme ts in the West Bank are 5% of the West Bank. And all the settlements are not in private palestinian land, they are in land that Israel took from Jordan, goverment land

[@jessiejb4684]

Settlements make up near 5% of the West Bank total area, but Israel controls over half of the West Bank marked for settlements and further expansion, and classifies 10% as sovereign Israeli territory. After decades of occupation, we should acknowledge the reality on the ground.

[@guzinkarides3871]

It's occupied land. It's not "government" land.

[@HeilIsrael]

@@guzinkarides3871no it was land of Jordan that was taken from Jordan during conquest. Much more of Jordan was the original Palestine the same exact way till the same time, and the West Bank is only a tiny piece taken by Israel. The congruent parts of Palestine were part of Jordan and never had any changes. So that means that West Bank was presumably part of Jordan as a state and Israel took it. For occupation, the West Bank would have needed proof of independent statehood from jordan.

[@carlitaticconi6655]

All details aside, I don't think it is possible to make an ethically acceptable case for the establishment of any ethnostate.

[@jacobkarlin6147]

I can. “Our people have been put in pograms in almost every major country in the world and persecuted. We endured an actual genocide attempt. Let’s make a state that is free to all except those that wish to murder us. Also, it must have a constitution to be the place of last refuge for our people.”

[@romanahowe67]

exactlty!

[@user-uq5xu8dj3e]

مش غلط لو تعمللنا قناه باللغه العربيه ومش مطلوب منك منتاج وإخراج سنمائي بس تكلم ومش راح تخسر😅

[@jamiehoran3901]

Mr Ammous, Much less attributable to bureaucratic minutiae, than to UTI Possidetis Juris, Judea and Samaria, every single square inch of it, is by law and then by heritage, sovereign Israeli territory. To say otherwise is simply ignorant of the law by which national boundaries are historically determined by international bodies. Israeli's are not settlers in this land. They actually own it. After the massacre of 10/7, the Israeli appetite for trading yet more land for a never realized peace, is effectively gone. Another way must be found. My guess, based on decades of reactionary violence, perpetrated by Israelis onto their attackers, is that Israel will have to recind all agreements and offer a one-time peace for Arabs who own property and wish to remain. Something like this: By remaining, you agree to abide by Israeli law. You agree to this one offer of Israeli citizenship. You swear allegiance to Israel, against all enemies, foreign and domestic. You agree that, like all Israelis, you have no right to decide who lives near you and who does not. For this, you get to keep your property and raise your children as Israelis. Domestic acts of terror, committed by any Israeli, are punishable to the full extent of Israeli law. No doubt, the actual details will be different, but these basic choices are coming. What would you choose, Mr. Ammous?

[@HeavyOnTheLeroy]

This Saif would rather climb a tree to tell a lie than stay on the ground and tell the truth. I think the kindest thing you could say about him is there’s no way he actually believes what he’s saying; if he does, that reflects very poorly on his intellect and morality.

[@romanahowe67]

Saif is right, the truth is with him, you deny historical facts

[@rakolman]

He does and has a very poor intellect. The fact that he wrote a book on Bitcoin doesn't make him smart in other areas.

[@sionnach.1374]

Re-establish the Crusader States Deus Vult

[@hyperreal]

😅😂

[@micchaelsanders6286]

Yaron’s thoughts are gold.

[@louiselamontagne2322]

Well done, Yaron. You did great refuting all the crap served up by your opponent.

[@romanahowe67]

Yaron just kept lying and lying, never gave any valid evidence. You are deluded and prejudiced and biased!

[@yanivreif7379]

@@romanahowe67 Just go fact check him or even better open a history book…

[@verticalmatt]

If disgust was a person

[@verticalmatt]

@@jaunt3603 the one whose face looks like he's permanently experiencing Disgust

[@romanahowe67]

it would be a zionist

[@LawOfNonContradiction]

You got owned by Yaron brook

[@Carla39894]

In 1948 the majority in Jerusalem was jewish. Almost 100,000 jews were all kicked out of Jerusalem by the jordanians. There were no private palestinian land , it was owned by the British Mandate. In the Neguev, the beduins were the people who lived there and they remained in Israel. Only arab palwstinians who fought against Israel were forced to leave, the others were concinced by the arab leaders and that's a fact

[@jessiejb4684]

Of course Palestinians owned private land. Many still have the documents from the British. Palestinians villages were attacked in 47’-48’ and they were brutally killed, the word got around and many fled to avoid that fate, others fled the war as all people do in time of war, returning when the violence has subsided. The difference is that when these people tried to return to their homes and villages they were executed by Israel and their villages were completely destroyed. These 800,000 are not people who fought Israel, just villagers. Had they fought, Israel would’ve surely lost against such numbers.

[@DovElonX]

Using all the antisemitic tropes that you can in your debate exposes you for what you really are.

[@ashdraked]

Yaron Brook and Walter block are two people that believe in freedom but conveniently not for Palestinians

[@shawnradke]

not their land homie

[@mrmuffin5046]

The day Palestinians take responsibility and fight against their terrorist leaders and recognize them as such they will never have peace

[@Raelspark]

Hamas is the organization which gives Palestinians / Gazans no freedom.

[@user-uq7dn6rx7w]

Sadly you can add peter schiff. He justifies the 3thnic cl3ansing because palestinians have wrong values

[@TheMasculinistPOV]

@@shawnradke you're an idiot, Homie...

[@gaeldesmontagnesnoires1711]

Thanks to Bitcoin and bitcoin, I don't care at all about other peoples lives.. Is it bad not to give a crap?.. I go about my days never giving a thought about the horrors everyone is doing to each other, anywhere. Earth is heaven, hell and purgatory all at once; it behooves all, to choose which one to live in.

[@lol-ld3jh]

Good perspective. You can't burden yourself with issues outside of your control.

[@TheMasculinistPOV]

I wonder if you’d have the same perspective should you be in a situation like that.

[@authenticallysuperficial9874]

Yes, it is evil.

[@authenticallysuperficial9874]

Since you asked.

[@gaeldesmontagnesnoires1711]

@@authenticallysuperficial9874 I dont feel evil tho

[@user-rb3gj8mq1j]

I think Safe will never get a strate answer on his strate question: "how to get back his ancestors land", from anybody he is debating with, except: " It's your fault -you where born non Jewish. So you better forget about. "

[@alex8491]

You lose, you lost your land and expelled. That was throughout the human history. Why arabs should be exception. only because the world hates Jews?

[@romanahowe67]

yeah sadly, hence the Palestinian Resistance is necessary!

[@yanivreif7379]

He won’t, life isn’t fair. You play with the cards you have, move forward and make the best out of them.

[@dennisne]

@@yanivreif7379 Will you say this too if US stops funding Israel, and Arabs conquer back their land once and for all?

[@GaryKatz]

Abject nonsense.

[@akn967]

when yaron says "rights / justice to everybody " he means between the jews only ,because they already had fued (between orthodox ,westren europe and african jews , that beef still exist to this day by the way)

[@JP-vm8sl]

Haha what are all these bots supporting Yaron? 😂 Amazing job Saif!

[@micchaelsanders6286]

Saif is wrong.

[@Carla39894]

Safeidin, stop lying. I am a history teacher and you are lying. Just look at the palestinian last names, they are originally from Egypt, Syria, Irak and other arab countries. Let me ask you a question, why did the arab countries attacked Israel in 1948??? The ethnic cleansing was an arab movement. Regarding Pappe, he is not an historian, he misquoted Ben Gurion, he even intentionally makes mistakes in his translations. Pappe is a liar too, that's why you mention him

[@dennisne]

Pappe is a liar, eh ;). What did he lie about?

[@bigbonanza6385]

The American Indians. Nuf said.

[@hyperreal]

@@jaunt3603 they were constantly warring with each other. They had no concept of private property or individual rights.

[@dennisne]

@@hyperreal Yea, they also ALL voluntarily ABANDONED ALL their homes and land ;) ;)

[@NithusezniSezni]

I'm only 14 min in, and if Israel respects individual rights, why doesn't it just respect the rights of the Palestinians?

[@lol-ld3jh]

You know Yaron is Israeli? There you go answered that for you

[@sionnach.1374]

They don't see them as being equal to Israelis I'd imagine

[@equaltoreality8028]

Because they lost their rights when Palestinians started this whole affair by initiating force against Israel. Heck, 15 years ago, Israel completely withdrew from Gaza and let them be; instead of creating a prosperous nation, they Voted for Hamas and started almost daily rocket attacks, which led to Oct 7th. Regardless of any claims they have to that land, Palestine made them null and void after Oct 7 due to the sheer acts of evil they committed. And it was not just Hamas. It was ordinary Gazaians who took part in that as well.

[@NithusezniSezni]

@@equaltoreality8028 how many Palestinians babies initiated violence against Israelis? You're applying collective guilt which is why you got this wrong.

[@equaltoreality8028]

@@NithusezniSezni@NithusezniSezni The Babies are innocent, but their parents are not. Part of the responsibility of the parents is to keep their children safe as guardians of their rights.This would include no supporting or committing atrocities against peaceful people, i.e. Israel, which would necessitate a violent response to prevent further harm. Most Palestinians actively support Hamas and thus are liable for their actions as Hamas is their chosen government. A people are their government. So, every single innocent to die in this, from either side, is in the hands of Palestinians. As Palestinians are acting as one, and there doesn't seem to be any sort of serious resistance movement (unlike in Iran) to destroy all Jews and Israel, Collective guilt is appropriate as their culture is based on the destruction of Israel.

[@Carla39894]

Before the Brktish Mandate, most of the land did bot belong to the arabs, it belonged to turkish rich people who lived in Turkey and those turks sold the land to jews. Another lie: there were always jews in the land of Israel, most of them in Jerusalem and Tzfat.

[@frankovercrest2317]

I'm bracing for the Yaron cringe.

[@micchaelsanders6286]

Yaron is right

[@AVE891]

Saifedeen, at this moment a majority of my city are populated by people from Northern African countries and others. It looks like I’am walking through a Middle East City. They all are starting to claim that the city is theirs. They building their mosques and spreading over the country. They are trying to influence my children’s to choose for Islam. We even have Philistines living in my village, living in houses which where owned by native citizens. We in our country are getting more and islamofoob. So, I hear your accent sounds British. So, you bought property in Britain as well. Are you a colonizer as well. Return back and start fighting against Islamic fundamentalisme like Hamas en Islamic jihad to make your people capable of living independently without any support from the UN. My Grandfathers land is owned by Muslims as well? Do I have the right to buy back his property.

[@romanahowe67]

you seem to forget that first the Western colonizers destroyed and exploited the muslim countries, keep them surpressed and now are surprised that those destroyed people come to pay a visit to the white man who settled and exploited those muslim lands ....it does not work looking at only one side of the coin, you need to have both to be able to pay for your truth...

[@alexandrosparaschou246]

Yaron: "You should visit Israel sometime, and see how we respect human rights..." Saifedean: "I can't!" Yaron: "..I wish you could." Completely oblivious to the irony of his comments, the proceeds to wax-lyrical about Israeli human rights.

[@ahappyimago]

Yes ignoring the fact that Palestinians have used every opening they ever had to murder and terrorize Jews…

[@pooponyou69]

Because he's a Lebanon citizen. Not because he's so-called "Palestinian". He'd be allowed to Israel if he moved to any Western country and renounce his Lebanese citizenship.

[@alexandrosparaschou246]

@@pooponyou69 Yes, Israel respects human rights. Except for Palestinians, Lebanese. Nor anyone else whom do not renounce their Arab citizenship and become “westernised”. 🙄 Yes, the very definition of human rights.

[@pooponyou69]

@@alexandrosparaschou246 Has nothing to do with "human rights" in whatever sense you mean. Has everything to do with an active war. Just yesterday Lebanon shot over 30 rockets on Tsfad, and just an hour ago sent drone strikes on Yaron's home city. He as an individual will be allowed into Israel if he denounces his affiliation with a hostile country that is currently engaging in attacks on major civilian locations. The same has always been true to any warring countries.

[@alexandrosparaschou246]

@@pooponyou69 can’t you read? The guy literally says come and see our human rights to a guy who can’t visit his homeland because of his nationality. Has everything to do with human rights because that is what is being discussed. If you want to go off on a segue about Israel’s conflicts with its neighbours then do so in your comment.

[@guzinkarides3871]

Yaron disingenuously compares the government owned land in US (national parks only) with government owned land in Israel (leased to Jews only to live). Huge difference.

[@sidrem8617]

Yawon Bwook is mowally bwoke

[@Raelspark]

That's how Finkelstein talks.

[@hyperreal]

Nice ad hominem

[@chelseawilliams8588]

I don’t think that’s helpful. Making fun of the way he speaks can certainly be linked to a form of prejudice and may derail the conversation entirely. If humor is your outlet, make fun of the argument, not the person.

[@romanahowe67]

true, exactly, I am aghast at the moral gymnastics these zionists are willing to make to defend land theft, murders, ethnic cleansing, genocide!

[@markpalmer8083]

Oh.... Not again. I thought this channel was supposed to be about Bitcoin.

[@manekedark]

The father of Nayib Bukele always talk about this problem, they scape from Palestine during the British occupation, that's why they end In El Salvador, the British were ruthless if you don't gave the Land they kill you.

[@bradvincent2586]

Oh no! Something didn’t go according to plan! Quick unsubscribe!!

[@resmarted]

Yaron's argument relies on a belief of collective ownership and guilt. The Palestinians attacked Israel therefore all their rights are forfeit.

[@Ilovemyboj]

Actually, this is a very good representation of how Palestinians have a voice. A "debate" that consists of a zionists telling you lies and no guest to counter. Bravo on pushing nore propaganda

[@lucabertagnolio9166]

Yaron Brook a zionist? 😂🤣

[@TheMasculinistPOV]

This guy knows as much of the history of this region as he can pronounce the letter “R”

[@Raelspark]

What is he wrong about? Give an example.

[@bradvincent2586]

Senseless to make fun of a speech impediment. Bad human do better

[@ravenhawk3758]

Yaron grew up speaking Hebrew, a language that pronounces letter r differently. Some roll their r's and others pronounce it in a different place in the mouth. He knows the history extremely well. He lived it.

[@ontariobitcoin2697]

@@ravenhawk3758and you pretend Saifedean doesn’t and that he and his family didn’t? PS world opinion is squarely on the side of greater sympathy for the Palestinians; this is to be expected since they are the vastly less militarily powerful tribe getting carpet-bombed and massacred by the other ALREADY powerful tribe that is ALSO backed by the US. I personally find it reprehensible how little the pro-Zionists ignore and justify mass murder TODAY due to the endless nuances of who did what to who when etc etc in decades and centuries past. Small desperate attacks vs. ruthless indomitable military … who did you think the world would have more sympathy for

[@TheMasculinistPOV]

lol I knew immediately as soon as Saif mentioned Ilan Pappe that Yaron would quote that quotation of Pappe but then he sites an outlandish pro Israel book “Palestine betrayed” by Efraim Karsh who literally believes and quotes in this book the need for ethnoreligous purity in Israel. So I guess because Yaron quotes him he doesn’t have a bias. It’s so ridiculous!

[@ahappyimago]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pGLClZZorNqnm8ksi=2pOCbGrOBRVIHo0s Here is a very well researched rebuttal about Ilan which shows news papers to directly disprove his claims and shows his citations are often misleading

[@yanivreif7379]

@@ahappyimago Yup, Pepe is a clown. A fringe “historian”

[@TheMasculinistPOV]

I really do believe that Saifedeen’s angle that he comes at this discussion is the most powerful and revealing way to go about it. It’s really irrefutable and requires the opposition to make out landing justifications that goes completely against the fundamental principles they stand for.

[@TheMasculinistPOV]

I’m actually speechless listening to this Yaron guy… it’s so obnoxious and disgusting, how can you debate a person like this that has no frame of reference his argument is basically Arabs bad, Israelis good and forfeits all his principles in the process. I mean look behind him there’s a book with the title “Free Markets revolution” but at the same time his defending an ethnonational/ethnoreligious socialist state that consist of a government that owns over 90 of its land. The irony would hilarious if it wasn’t so disgusting.

[@lucabertagnolio9166]

I don’t really know where Yaron did what you say he did. You must have watched a different debate and confused the speaker. 🤷🏻‍♂️ You should read “Free Market Revolution”. When Yaron met Javier Milei in Buenos Aires a couple of weeks ago, he gave him a copy of that book, which Yaron co-authored together with Don Watkins. I am convinced that reading that book will be a good thing for you, like it will be for Milei, when he reads it.

[@alex8491]

All states are basically ethnostates. Multi-ethnic states can't exists, if one side arabs clearly states their intention to annihilate Jews.

[@romanahowe67]

yes, I agree. Look, I am an atheist, from the Czech republic, so I have no interest to side with anyobody in particular. But when I listen to zionists trying to justify the expulsion of Palestinians I just think I am listening to Martians or something. It is just Orwell world par excelence. They turn everything around and then go and accuse you of turning their words around. Mind-boggling!