Was it Jesus in the Burning Bush? - Easy Apologetics with Sean and Emily Jones

[@acb9318]

I think it’s worth noting that in Exodus 3.6 it says, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” Then in Acts 3.13 Peter differentiates God and Jesus saying, “The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his Servant Jesus, whom you handed over and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had decided to release him.”

[@Bolaway]

You guys should decide if Yeshua is God, Son or an Angel. Christianity are so confused that every single time distort the scriptures to create a new doctrine. The term in hebrew is messenger, not God. וַיֵּרָא מַלְאַךְ יְהֹוָה אֵלָיו בְּלַבַּת־אֵשׁ מִתּוֹךְ הַסְּנֶה וַיַּרְא וְהִנֵּה הַסְּנֶה בֹּעֵר בָּאֵשׁ וְהַסְּנֶה אֵינֶנּוּ אֻכָּל׃ And saw and messenger (angel) of Adonai inside a flame of fire bush, and He saw and behold, the bush was in fire [burning] and was not consumed. Shemot 3:2

[@revealer4439]

Thanks ​@@Bolaway

[@neweyz3396]

So thankful for this video , I love the TRUTH ! Blessings Sean & Emily ❤😊

[@shanederry2691]

Great work, folks. Amen.

[@GregKirkwood-zf3uh]

❤ Amen Love the Truth

[@juniormonteiro6323]

Thank you!

[@RickRowe-k1g]

Where did you go to learn what you are teaching?

[@21stOneGod]

We attend Higher Ground Church in Nashville, TN but for these videos, we have weekly bible studies with J. Dan Gill. He has been teaching and guiding us all along the way!

[@LoveTheFatherAndTheSon]

4 “Hear, Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one! 5 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. Deuteronomy 6:4-5 NASB

[@SmalltimR]

_'Hear, Israel, YHWH is our GOD. YHWH is one. You shall love YHWH your GOD with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your might'_

[@easttexan2933]

Please explain Isaiah 9:6; 43:11; 44:6, 24; 45:21-23 in relation to Phlp2:9-11; 49:26; 63:16

[@21stOneGod]

Those are definitely on our list of scriptures to study! Thanks for mentioning them!

[@easttexan2933]

@@21stOneGod Another is Jude 25

[@vm1552]

Good question. I've thought about it before. That is a possibility. He himself said that before Abraham existed he was already in existence but in heavens.

[@Bolaway]

Instead of Christians lose time with more important things, like Yeshua's parables, they lose time forcing a doctrine. Shemot (Exodus) 3:2 וַיֵּרָא מַלְאַךְ יְהֹוָה אֵלָיו בְּלַבַּת־אֵשׁ מִתּוֹךְ הַסְּנֶה וַיַּרְא וְהִנֵּה הַסְּנֶה בֹּעֵר בָּאֵשׁ וְהַסְּנֶה אֵינֶנּוּ אֻכָּל׃ And saw and messenger (angel) of Adonai inside a flame of fire bush, and He saw and behold, the bush was in fire [burning] and was not consumed.

[@fcastellanos57]

I enjoy your presentations, thank you. I hope many will watch it so that they get informed and read the truth and not continue with the indoctrination that has existed since the fourth century.

[@xrisxros747]

Christians look to Christ, they trust in Christ, they believe on Christ, they call upon the name of Christ, Christ dwells in them, they belong to Christ ... It is Christ that loves them and Christ that calls them and Christ that claims them and Christ that cleanses them and Christ that makes them a new creation in Himself. In many and multitudinous ways, Christ declares himself to be the all-sufficient and all-saving one. He himself possesses the church, and he himself makes a covenant with them. If Jesus does all the things that God can do, doesn't he therefore qualify as Deity? If Jesus performs all the roles & functions for the people of God that God does .... Doesn't that qualify Jesus as the God of his people?

[@randmanooooo]

You said at time mark 18:08 “”it's very clear, you know, the angel of the Lord that appeared to Moses wasn't Jesus. the scripture doesn't say it's Jesus. And I'm not going to believe that it was unless the scripture tells me to believe that. “” Me- Let us read scripture then and let’s figure this out. Read Numbers 14:14- “and they will tell the inhabitants of this land. They have heard that thou, O Lord, art in the midst of this people; for thou, O Lord, art seen face to face, and thy cloud stands over them and thou goest before them, in a pillar of cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night.” Numbers 14:14 RSV. Who does Moses say in this verse was in the midst with them? YHWH right? Next Let’s read Exodus 13:21-22 “And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night; the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night did not depart from before the people.” ‭‭Exodus‬ ‭13‬:‭21‬-‭22‬ ‭RSV‬‬ According to the witness of Moses who wrote Exodus, who was dwelling in their presence and guiding them? YHWH right? Let us continue with scripture by reading Exodus 14:19-20 “Then the angel of God who went before the host of Israel moved and went behind them; and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them, coming between the host of Egypt and the host of Israel. And there was the cloud and the darkness; and the night passed without one coming near the other all night.” ‭‭Exodus‬ ‭14‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭RSV‬‬ Enlightening us more through the witness of Moses who does he say guided the people? The Angel of the Lord right? Let’s once again through scripture read 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 “I want you to know, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same supernatural food and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ.” ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭10‬:‭1‬-‭4‬ ‭RSV So now that I have proven through scripture that Jesus Christ was The Angel of the Lord who guided them and who was called YHWH according to the testimony of Moses and through the consensus among historians and theologians that Paul is the author of the First Epistle to the Corinthians also believe that Jesus was this same Angel of the Lord. Remember what you said at time mark 6:19 you said “if that angel had been Jesus then I feel that Stephen or Paul would have said this was the angel “” What did Paul just say about that spiritual Rock who followed the people in the wilderness? ““That Rock was Christ “will you now believe? Again according to what you said-“ I'm not going to believe that it was (Jesus who is identified as the Angel of the Lord)unless the scripture tells me to believe that” (end quote )

[@Psalm-pu2jq]

Sorry dear friend. Your "Jesus as an angel" is what Jehovah's witnesses have been saying for the last century. It just doesn't fly.

[@SmalltimR]

@@Psalm-pu2jq Jesus as an angel doesn't fly because the Jehovah's witnesses have been saying that for the last century? - I'm thinking you'll have have to come-up with better arguments than that , if you're intending to be taken seriously ...

[@randmanooooo]

@@Psalm-pu2jq He is The Messenger of the Lord, The messenger of the covenant, “Behold, I send my messenger, (Angel who is John the Baptist)and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger (Angel) of the covenant, whom ye desire, behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts.” ‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬ ‭this is a messianic prophecy about Jesus. Because God’s Name is in him Exodus 23:21. Which means he has God’s power, God’s authority, God’s nature. He is what God is. There is no other messenger in the Bible who has this unique distinction. His name is wonderful meaning beyond comprehension “And the angel of Jehovah said unto him, Wherefore askest thou after my name, seeing it is wonderful?” ‭‭Judges‬ ‭13‬:‭18. Jehovah witnesses believe the arch angel Michael is Jesus but as I demonstrated above this messenger has a name beyond comprehension. People feared him when they saw him because they believed they would die. They called him God. They believed he was God. Moses calls him God. Jacob prays to this Angel of the Lord to bless his son Joseph saying “And he blessed Joseph, and said, The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God who hath fed me all my life long unto this day, THE ANGEL who hath redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.” ‭‭Genesis‬ ‭48‬:‭15‬-‭16‬ I will believe Moses testimony over you. The word Angel just means messenger. People are messengers. The heavenly hosts are messengers. Was Jesus sent to make his Father known? That’s what a messenger does. By your response you must be thinking that angels are only winged creatures that we commonly see in artwork. What did God say about this specific messenger in exodus 23:22 LISTEN TO HIM. Does that sound familiar to you. Read Mark 9:7 “Then a cloud enveloped them; and a voice came out of the cloud, “This is my Son, whom I love. LISTEN TO HIM “” ‭‭

[@Psalm-pu2jq]

@@randmanoooooAgain, your idea of turning Jesus into an angel is pretty awful. You need to seriously rethink all of that. Are you not a closet Jehovah's Witness? You need to be fighting against this Jesus as an angel business - not spreading it yourself.

[@randmanooooo]

@@Psalm-pu2jq As I stated in my response above. The Hebrew word translated as “angel” is malak, which just means “messenger. That’s it. The context surrounding this messenger tells us what kind of being we are looking at. People are messengers, heavenly hosts are messengers. You are a messenger if you truly are sharing God’s word. John the Baptist was a messenger a Malak. Again, Context will tell us if it’s human messengers or heavenly hosts. Thankfully we have Moses as a witness since he wrote the first five books of the Old Testament telling us who this one particular messenger is. Moses says he is God. But not the Father. He is the Messenger (Angel) of the covenant as I also stated above in several verses. Again I will listen to the witness of Moses over you.

[@Karen-0914]

Did the Son of Man (Jesus) come down from heaven as Jesus said in John 3:13?

[@xrisxros747]

As a believer in the loving, saving, indwelling Christ... I'm listening to intently to your video. If I may comment; One of the arguments that you make that is particularly weak is that "if a thing was so, would it not have been said?" This is not a very helpful line of reasoning. In fact it's a logical error.

[@perry186]

Hi, Christians do not believe in 3 separate Gods. They believe there is only 1 God who exists as 3 distinct persons. Here is another definition. “Within the one Being that is God, there exists eternally three coequal and coeternal persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” “Being is what makes something what it is. Person is what makes someone who he or she is.” “God’s being is eternal not limited by both time and omnipresent (not limited by space)” A rock has being but a rock is not personal. “What is personality? The ability to have emotion, will, to express oneself.” God has these abilities, so God is a personal being. All 3 persons share the 1, undivided, identical divine nature from all of eternity. The Bible teaches The Angel of the Lord is God. The word “angel” in both Hebrew and Greek, just means “messenger.” It does not mean an angelic being from heaven. The messenger could be human, angelic, or Divine, depending on the context. The definite article in the Old Testament shows the Angel of the Lord is a specific Angel and separate from all other angels. Which means because of the definite article, whenever the Angel of the Lord is mentioned in the Old Testament, it is always the same person. “In the New Testament, In Greek to indicate definiteness you'd have to have the article but it's never articular it's always an Angel. The only time you have an expression that's articular, meaning it has the phrase the Angel, it's what's known as anaphoric, is in Matthew 1. This is the only occasion, in Matthew 1 it says an angel appeared, and then later in the same context it says the Angel. The only reason it's definite there is because it's referring back to that angel. So again, you never have an appearance in the New Testament of the Angel of the Lord spoken of in the Old Testament.” The Angel of the Lord has the Divine name. Exodus 23:20-21 NASB1995 “Behold, I am going to send an angel before you to guard you along the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. Be on your guard before him and obey his voice; do not be rebellious toward him, for he will not pardon your transgression, since My name is in him. The Angel of the Lord is identified as Yahweh who split the sea. Exodus 13:21 LSB And Yahweh was going before them in a pillar of cloud by day to guide them on the way, and in a pillar of fire by night to give them light, that they might go by day and by night. Exodus 14:19 LSB Then the angel of God, who had been going before the camp of Israel, moved and went behind them; and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them. Exodus 14:21 LSB Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and Yahweh swept the sea back by a strong east wind all night and made the sea into dry ground, so the waters were split. The Angel of the Lord is worshipped. Exodus 33:10 ESV And when all the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the entrance of the tent, all the people would rise up and worship, each at his tent door. Jacob prays to the Angel of the Lord and calls him God. The 3 descriptions Jacob gives refers to the same person, may he bless these boys. Genesis 48:15-16 BSB Then he blessed Joseph and said: “May the God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked, the God who has been my shepherd all my life to this day, the angel who has redeemed me from all harm- may He bless these boys. And may they be called by my name and the names of my fathers Abraham and Isaac, and may they grow into a multitude upon the earth.” The Angel of the Lord is clearly not a mere agent acting on behalf of God. Worshipping someone as if they were God, is idolatry. Moses, the author of Genesis calls him Yahweh Genesis 16:11 ESV And the angel of the LORD said to her, “Behold, you are pregnant and shall bear a son. You shall call his name Ishmael, because the LORD has listened to your affliction. Genesis 16:13 LSB Then she called the name of Yahweh who spoke to her, “You are a God who sees”; for she said, “Have I even remained alive here after seeing Him?” The Angel of the Lord calls himself God. Genesis 31:11-13 NASB1995 Then the angel of God said to me in the dream, ‘Jacob,’ and I said, ‘Here I am.’ He said, ‘Lift up now your eyes and see that all the male goats which are mating are striped, speckled, and mottled; for I have seen all that Laban has been doing to you. I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a pillar, where you made a vow to Me; now arise, leave this land, and return to the land of your birth.’ ” He often took on the form of a man which is how he was able to wrestle with Jacob. Genesis 32:24-28 BSB So Jacob was left all alone, and there a man wrestled with him until daybreak. When the man saw that he could not overpower Jacob, he struck the socket of Jacob’s hip and dislocated it as they wrestled. Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.” But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.” “What is your name?” the man asked. “Jacob,” he replied. Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men, and you have prevailed.” Hosea 12:3-5 LSB In the womb he took his brother by the heel, And in his maturity he wrestled with God. Indeed, he wrestled with the angel and prevailed; He wept and sought His favor. He found Him at Bethel, And there He spoke with us, Even Yahweh, the God of hosts, Yahweh is His name of remembrance. He also appeared to Abraham in the form of a man. Genesis 18:1-2 LSB Then Yahweh appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. And he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing nearby; he saw, and he ran from the tent door to meet them, and he bowed himself to the earth Genesis 18:16-17 LSB Then the men rose up from there and looked down toward Sodom; and Abraham was walking with them to send them off. Now Yahweh said, “Shall I conceal from Abraham what I am about to do Genesis 19:24 LSB And Yahweh rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh out of heaven, The Angel of the Lord rained down fire and brimstone from the Father, 2 Divine persons working together. The Angel of the Lord is The Messiah, both are identified as the Arm of the Lord. Isaiah 51:9-10 BSB Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD. Wake up as in days past, as in generations of old. Was it not You who cut Rahab to pieces, who pierced through the dragon? Was it not You who dried up the sea, the waters of the great deep, who made a road in the depths of the sea for the redeemed to cross over? Isaiah 53:1-2 BSB Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no stately form or majesty to attract us, no beauty that we should desire Him. Jesus is clearly identified as the Angel of the Lord who was in the Pillar of Cloud. Exodus 40:38 NASB1995 For throughout all their journeys, the cloud of the LORD was on the tabernacle by day, and there was fire in it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel. 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 NASB1995 For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and all ate the same spiritual food; and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. Water baptism does not save us. We are saved by grace through faith and not by works. “The Greek word for “baptism” refers to immersion into water. But the meaning of baptism in this passage is different. In 1 Cor. 10:1-4 we are told that the Israelites were “under a cloud” and “passed through the sea.” This is symbolic language. When a Christian is baptized, the person is put “under” the water and is “passed” through it. The Apostle Paul uses this wording to refer to the time that the Israelites passed through the Red Sea with the cloud of God above them. They were under the cloud.” The people of Israel were immersed into the leadership of Moses by God’s direction. The Holy Spirit is called God. He is a Divine Person. 2 Samuel 23:2-4 BSB The Spirit of the LORD spoke through me; His word was on my tongue. The God of Israel spoke; the Rock of Israel said to me, ‘He who rules the people with justice, who rules in the fear of God, is like the light of the morning at sunrise of a cloudless dawn, the glistening after the rain on the sprouting grass of the earth.’ Acts 13:2 LSB And while they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Ephesians 4:30 ESV And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Job 33:4 ESV The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life. The Holy Spirit Creates, only God creates. Proverbs 22:2 LSB The rich and the poor meet together in this- Yahweh is the Maker of them all. The Holy Spirit shares the 1 being of God with The Father and The Son. They share the same name and all 3 played a part in creation. Genesis 1:26 NASB1995 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” There is only 1 God who exists as 3 distinct persons.

[@douglasswarren2724]

The debate who was that angel that follow the children of Israel. 1 COR. 10:4) they drink of the Spiritual Rock that followed them and that rock was Christ. Christ was the angel that followed Israel. It was Christ that said I am the God of your fathers. A regular.angel cannot proclaim to be God almighty, but Christ as God can. Rev. 22 8-9) John fell on his knees to worship an angel. The angel said see thou do it not worship God. Rev. 5:8 the elders, the beast, fell down before The Lamb, with prayers of the saints. The Lamb of God Christ did not say do no do this for the Lamb is also God. HEB. 1:6 GOD said let all the angels worship him. Verse 8. But unto the son GOD said, thy Throne O GOD is forever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is thy kingdom. 9 v. Therefore God your God, hath anointed thee with gladness. 10v thou laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens is the work of thou hands. 12 thou shall change all. Rev. 20:11 the earth and the heavens are change by he that set on the throne. Who sets on the throne to judge the world? Jesus. John 5:22) the father judges no man but all the judgment is to the son.

[@Dmoody75]

It says in verse 2 THE angel of the Lord appeared. There is an absolute difference between an angel of the Lord and THE angel of the Lord. No run of the mill messenger angel is going to make reference to himself being God saying I AM he'll say just like the angel told john not to worship him only worship God. Absolutely was Jesus..... I guess bible versions matter. Want your doctrine messed up then pick a version that tickles your fancy and you'll find out why the body of Christ is so messed up.

[@7thStoneMedia]

Too much deliberate ignorance. Who IS Jesus? Was He an angel, He doesn’t talk like Gabriel or Michael. How did He say “Before Abraham was, I Am”?

[@theguyver4934]

Trinitarians are not real christians

[@Acts24.5]

Pardon? Jesus never said he was an angel. His disciples never said he was an angel. Acts chapter 7 explicitly states Jesus was not an angel. And just think about this logically - if Jesus was the pre-existing angel of the Lord who could take on human form and eight with Abraham, wrestled with Jacob and spent 40 years in the wilderness with Israelite people wild earth would he have to become incarnate to take on human flesh? Such a notion is utterly ridiculous. you could just return to earth and his angelic / human form.

[@7thStoneMedia]

@@Acts24.5 Part good! But then Who or What was He? Explain how He was older than Abraham in a sense.

[@Acts24.5]

@@7thStoneMedia if you read the discussion Jesus has with the religious leaders and John chapter 8 you will see that Jesus never said that he saw Abraham but rather Abraham saw his day. We have to acknowledge that the Pharisees misinterpreted what Jesus said, as do Trinitarian teaches today. So the question should be in what sense did Abraham see Jesus’s day? Well we know that God almighty spoke to Abraham and said to him that all nations would be blessed through his seed. Jesus is the ultimate element of that promise. In the book of Hebrews chapter 9 or 10, we know that Abraham was looking forward to a city that was promised to him, however we have no mention of this heavenly city in the old Testament. so what? The old Testament doesn’t tell us about every engagement or everything that God Almighty said or showed to Abraham. In faith I believe God Almighty revealed to Abraham in the spirit who Jesus was and what Jesus would achieve et cetera. I believe this is the most faithful and biblically honest interpretation of this passage. Clearly, there is the Broadpoint that based on the Greek of John 8:58 and exodus 3:15 it is grammatically and linguistically impossible to argue anyone listening to Jesus thought he was identifying himself as YHVH.

[@7thStoneMedia]

@@Acts24.5 you’re claiming What He wasn’t. And everyone is failing to say in a word who/what He is. Give me truth and understanding, Who/What is He?

[@alanhales6369]

The Bible teaches the preexisting of Jesus who along with God the Father and God the Holy Ghost make up the ONE God manifested in THREE persons.

[@easttexan2933]

not exactly true statement.

[@alanhales6369]

@@easttexan2933 who are you replying to? It does help to know. So what's not a true statement?.

[@easttexan2933]

@@alanhales6369 I was replying to you since I was the first to reply to you. That should be obvious however, your comment is also a pet peeve of mine too but only when the reply is like the second or greater. No way of knowing who that person is talking to. As for the trinity being a true statement, I'm not real sure that's the truth of the matter. If God is a spirit, then why do we assume there is another spirit separate from God? Can they not be the same. Jesus said He and the Father are one. Isa9:6 says " For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace". The everlasting Father? Really. I guess Jesus and the Father are one. I don't know your spiritual background or your education in bible study, so I will assume you understand that in the OT, the title LORD in all caps is the tetragrammaton and stands for YHVH, the sacred name of God the Father. It is used over 6800 times in the OT referencing the name of God. Many translations are out there as Yahweh, Yehovah, Jehovah, Yahuah, Yahuwah, Yahuvah. Having said that, Philp 2:9-11 becomes very interesting read because Paul is quoting Isa45:21-23 and it is speaking of God (YHVH) and God is saying that every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess (swear) to HIM. Philip2:9-11 says, "Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father". Now that title "Lord" is not in all caps but it should have been because it is quoting Isa45:21-23 and in those verses it is clear that it is the LORD (YHVH)that is talking. This means that the scripture should read this way, ".....and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is LORD (Yahuvah).....Romans 10:9 should read the same way too because in 10:13 Paul quotes Joel and it is talking about calling upon the name of the LORD (YHVH) and thou shalt be saved. Check out Isa 43:10-11; 44:6, 24; 47:4; 48:17; 54:5; 63:16. Read carefully 44:24, " Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself". Compare that verse to John 1:1-3, " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made". Compare that to Col 1:15-17, "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist". In the OT, Yahuvah God says he made all things. In the NT, John and Paul say that Yashua (Jesus) made all things. It appears to me from all the scripture references I've given that Father God and Jesus are one and the same spirit, not 3 separate persons of a godhead as the trinity teaches. Deut 6:4, Hear O' Israel, the LORD thy God is one LORD. Luke 2:11, unto you a child is born, Christ the Lord (should be translated LORD - YHVH. These are just my thoughts and what I am thinking is true because I've been a trinitarian all my christian life (1978) but never gave it much thought.

[@alanhales6369]

@@easttexan2933 so you are showing your ignorance of the Bible, you must be embarrassed beyond measure at your ignorance of the Bible.

[@easttexan2933]

@@alanhales6369 For you to respond in such a sophomoric way leads me to believe you are very unstudied in the word of God and base your beliefs on what you've been told. I spent 30 minutes explaining my view and you come back with an insult. Typical of babes in Christ.

[@flamingswordapologetics]

In Isaiah God is the Alpha and Omega, in Revelation, Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, I can't for the life of me when you study every scripture that clearly shows Jesus is Deity, how you can't just embrace the mystery that Jesus is not the Father, yet He is equal and part of the Godhead that is one God. I am the type of Christian that admires anyone who wants to study these things out for themselves, come to different conclusions on many issues, but when you get into the Jesus is not Divinity belief, you are dealing with salvific issues. John 8:24- "I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins." I'm pretty sure the "he" is added I think from the Greek. Jesus is saying that He is the I AM from the burning bush. No Jesus is not an angel, we agree on that, no Jesus is not the Father, but He is God, He is Divine, just embrace the mystery, trust scripture on this. The gospel of John if you take it as it is, do not try to reframe it to fit your belief system, overwhelmingly shows us Jesus is Divine, remember only God is worthy of worship, yet we worship Jesus, He is worshiped in the New T, even prayed to. All of these things are for Yahweh only, yet Jesus receives them. Jesus didn't turn down worship, think of Thomas. Again a mystery, but this isn't like other doctrines where we can agree to disagree, because only Divinity could pay for our sins, God became man, that is the glorious power behind the gospel, that God did what we couldn't. If Jesus was just a man, what an anti climatic belief, but if Jesus was the God who became man, who lowered Himself like it says in Philippians, the creator of all things like it says in Colossians, Romans, Eph, and Rev, that is glorious.

[@acb9318]

@@flamingswordapologetics My guess is that you don’t actually listen to the videos, you just cut and paste the same reply. If not you should be engaging with the claims of the video. If you truly want answers to your “proof texts” from a biblical Unitarian perspective, I recommend videos from Bill Schlegel, Sean Finnegan, Dustin Smith and more. If you want recommendations on a specific topic you mentioned in your comment, I can do that.

[@flamingswordapologetics]

Nope, I didn't cut and paste the same reply, I studied the Unitarian position a few years ago and found it wanting and dangerous due to the reason I mentioned in my comment. I do get the questions, I am not sure the Trinitarian view is exactly how it works, but I cannot deny the clear Divinity of Jesus, even if its not what we think it is, as its clearly a mystery. The debate with White/Brown vrs Anthony and the other guy pretty much sealed the deal for me.

[@acb9318]

@@flamingswordapologetics It’s weird that you’re saying it’s “dangerous”. A monotheistic scribe and Jesus has a conversation in Mark 12 in which the scribe repeated back to Jesus the Shema saying that HE (God) is one and there is no other besides HIM. The response that Jesus gave to the scribe wasn’t that his beliefs were dangerous, rather that he answered wisely.

[@flamingswordapologetics]

@@acb9318 Yes, God is one, no one on either side disagrees with that. You do understand the Trinitarian position that its one God I assume, but not sure based on this response. Here's a very good debate with two Trinitarians and two Unitarians. If you're open and not glued to a view no matter what the evidence you should consider watching it. This is part one, you can do a search as I have found leaving a link doesn't usually work in You-Tube anymore. Trinitarians vs. Unitarians debate (1/2)

[@acb9318]

@@flamingswordapologetics The point is a Jewish scribe who doesn’t believe God is a trinity is using singular pronouns to describe God. The trinitarian belief is that Jesus is God. So God was standing in front of the scribe. The scribe didn’t say he is three, you are three, they are three. The scribe referring to God and not Jesus said HE is one, there is no other besides HIM. There is no escaping that the scribe did not believe God was a trinity. If Jesus is God and know that this is what the scribe believed he would have told him his belief was dangerous. I have seen many debates and I used to be a trinitarian. Debates don’t really mean anything, at the end of the day, you are responsible for what you believe. If your belief is based on who wins a debate, anyone who watched the O’Conner/D’Souza debate would be an atheist.

[@Mister_Downstairs]

Nope

[@theguyver4934]

Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )

[@247Vessel]

Keep the fruits of the spirit in mind when God says be fruitful.

[@247Vessel]

You shall know them by the fruits of their spirit.