274 - Performance-enhancing drugs and hormones-risks, rewards, & broader implications for the public

[@PeterAttiaMD]

In this episode, we discuss: 0:00:47-Derek’s experimentation with anabolic steroids at a young age 0:10:28-Acquiring steroids from underground labs & the potential long-term fertility concerns early in his bodybuilding career 0:15:56-Backstory on More Plates, More Dates & Derek’s unique ability to blend scientific knowledge with personal observation 0:21:23-Growth hormone-from extreme use-cases to the more typical-& the misconception that it’s the “elixir of life” 0:29:34-Growth hormone 101: definition, where it comes from, & the challenges of measuring it 0:41:43-Does exogenous growth hormone compromise one’s ability to make endogenous growth hormone? 0:43:51-Use of growth hormone in restoration of tissue during periods of healing 0:51:45-Growth hormone-releasing peptides to increase endogenous GH: various peptides, risks, benefits & comparison to exogenous growth hormone 1:07:12-Role of growth hormone in building muscle & burning fat, as well as its effects on sleep & daytime lethargy 1:15:00-Evolution of drug use in the sport of bodybuilding 1:27:01-What explains the protruding abdomens on some bodybuilders & athletes? 1:33:20-Death of bodybuilders 1:42:15-Complex interplay of hormones, & the conversion of testosterone into metabolites like DHT & estrogen 1:52:23-Post-finasteride syndrome & how Derek successfully treated his hair loss 2:07:55-Testosterone replacement therapy: compelling use-cases, side effects, & optimal dosing schedules 2:28:56-Aromatase inhibitors to suppress estrogen, & the misconceptions around estrogen in men 2:34:38-Other hormones beyond testosterone for male sex hormone replacement 2:38:45-History of anabolic compounds, & the differing effects of various anabolic testosterone derivatives & related drugs 2:44:24-Use of SARMs by bodybuilders 2:51:53-Anabolic steroid & testosterone regimens of professional bodybuilders & the downstream consequences 3:01:20-Challenge of accurate hormone testing in the presence of anabolic steroids & supplements 3:04:10-Use of Clomid, hCG, & enclomiphene 3:18:37-Concerns about fertility: comparing the use of testosterone & hCG 3:31:33-Use of BPC-157 peptide for healing injuries

[@jbartmontage6737]

Thank you both 🏆

[@Munga1976]

Peter, I’ve just been on Enclomiphene 25mg ED for the past 12 months. I’m more than happy To have a chat with you about my experiences with it if you’d like . Kind Regards Craig

[@JOHNWAYNE1920]

UGL is not some guy. The steroids you buy online are from India and china. They're manufactured just like normal prescriptions. Its just not regulated over there like it is here.

[@aaronortega1083]

EXCELLENT PODCAST !!!!!! 11/10. Would it be possible to edit in charts, graphs, images of some of the things talked about for future episodes ? Such as chemical pathways, MOA images etc. Thank you for the knowledge, god bless !

[@BritishMoralHQ]

I follow below 1) enclomiphene 2) Luteolin 3) PORTULACA OLERACEA -seeds which has shown to successfully restore hpta .... 4) AC262 for crouch muscle growth 5) MK4,MK7 6) will chew black seed 7) schissandra , i3c, cordyceps, foti, maca,cocoa 8) sumac for antioxidant bomb ...with brocolli salmon soup 9) bromocriptine, bromontane

[@MorePlatesMoreDates]

3.5 hours felt like it flew by! Had a blast, and what an honor to be featured on The Drive. I've been a member for years myself, and can't say enough positive things about Peter and his work. I really hope you guys enjoy the episode. I hosted Peter on my podcast as well and will be posting that next Monday.

[@jamesoneill4571]

@MorePlatesMoreDates There is a real interest from the general audience for more specific discussions with experts like this, I hope you keep this up!

[@michealmclaughlin429]

Two goats

[@wellplayed3995]

Man Derek its crazy to see how far you've come over the years! Congrats man you've always stayed true to yourself!

[@paddy3622]

that was awesome. every young person or even older weight lifters should watch this. appreciate your honesty.

[@lh5520]

Amazing!

[@MrRawnerves]

How a guy with no medical degree can carry a conversation like this with a fully certified Doctor. Way to go Derek!!!

[@mugshotmarley]

He's over doing it a little, like he's trying to impress. Wish he took it down a notch tbh

[@theonlymoez1]

@@mugshotmarley Thats just how he explains it everywhere I've seen him. You need to have a baseline level of knowledge about hormone signaling to really appreciate his responses.

[@Hugh.G.Rection.]

@@mugshotmarleythat’s pretty much how he is all the time, it’s not him overdoing it, just his personality of enjoying explaining and expanding on points.

[@karlmeaden6868]

​@mugshotmarley what a strange comment, if he was over playing it the certified doctor he's speaking to would surely pull him up. This is literally how he talks about these topics all the time. Justbsay you can't comprehend it, it's ok non of us do at this level.

[@gympho1]

Hope you know “Derek” got ALL his information from Victor Black…WHICH HE NEVER TELL ANYONE OR HE WOULD BE BROKE STILL!!! Victor Black is the REAL PED EDUCATOR

[@nothere941]

Supraphysiological levels of knowledge efficaciously blasted into my existence bro. 2 of my favorite health specialists finally getting together, I love it. Looking forward to part 2

[@Bokuverruckt]

Hahahah love it

[@oracle6621]

😂😂😂

[@meghan42]

How many hours per week do you spend looking after your body? And how much money?

[@6StormShadow]

Nice bro

[@Mike-xq7ib]

​@meghan42 He's not a specialist dude. You can't fake a medical degree or just wing it... doesn't matter how smart you sound or how many scientific papers you read.

[@WhiteNorthStar1]

I really admire how Peter didn't pretend to know everything in this area. Instead, he sincerely, courageously, and politely expanded his own and his audiences knowledge with Derek's expertise. This is a tremendous podcast session 🙏

[@ClintByrne]

It's also really great to see a Dr like Peter willing to set aside title and rank and listen to someone who is obviously dedicated and well read but hasn't studied as a Dr. Also really shows how smart Derek is

[@WhiteNorthStar1]

Exactly@@ClintByrne

[@rxyz123]

Yes... Plus I also think Peter is very smart..... Knows what he thinks the answers to be.... But regards Derek as a deep expert on this subject so Peter is silently measuring his answers while taking Derek s as data that either confirms Peter's belief or signals Peter needs to rethink.

[@Brando-_-440]

Absolutely, Peter expertly sets the stage and carefully probes the knowledge from the lens of the likes that rarely step to the spotlight and talk open and honest, and as technical as Derek. I respect Derek in his knowledge and his willingness to be honest with his experience in these areas that are not certifiable in society.

[@misteratoz]

I'm a board certified internist (IM physician) . I'm 100% sure that Derek knows more about hormones than I do 😅

[@Joseph1NJ]

We're assuming you're not an endocrinologist right?

[@Drjohncurry]

@@misteratoz100% on point. I’ve defended Derek and his doc (Hotchkis sp?) at Marek multiple times for this.. we don’t learn (nor would we need to learn for our populations) this kind of esoteric information in our training. This is the kind of knowledge only passion and experience get you. Even endo doesn’t deal with optimizing a healthy population. They’re well trained in treating pathology like DM and the like, however I’ve seen TRT done terribly by classically trained endos.. even Peter, trained in surgery, likely understands the nuances of TRT much better than the bulk of endos. Again, at no fault to them.. it just isn’t in our training.

[@terminator2348]

That's because he's never been asked about basic physiology. He just regurgitates shit. He doesn't understand most of what he says 😂

[@MeesterJ]

​@@DrjohncurryI thought his doc was Kyle Gillett?

[@kungfoochicken08]

@@Joseph1NJAll three of the people I know who are on TRT are having their treatments mismanaged by their endocrinologists or urologists. All of these “experts” seem to think it’s appropriate to give 75mg-125mg of test-c every two weeks. A lot of doctors are just trying to check the boxes so they can get through their patients for the day.

[@VigorousSteve]

In before Supraphysiological amounts of views!

[@mortenpaskins6073]

Vigorous Views

[@CalebTheHumbled]

Not gonna lie, Steve for some reason I thought you were dead fr.

[@masonflanrey9095]

The front double bicep legend himself!

[@wesj1064]

You're quite capable of doing a round table with these two gentlemen and perhaps Huberman as well. Bump this for Steve to get on one of these podcasts sometime!

[@SpencerHHO]

Derek is one of the most responsible commentators on these topics. He doesn't glorify or scaremonger, he gives facts where they exist and speculates in an intelligent and responsible manner.

[@EmperorSeneca]

Derek teaching Peter new things about biology is WILD. Love this interview.

[@ManjiMachine]

Considering Derek is essentially an enthusiast in the field lol

[@TheOneMastodon]

That's literally how good Derek is, the OGs know

[@AQGOAT24]

@@DeusExMachina50 Medical education does not cover hormones and the such in the depth that you know about PEDS. So docs not in endocrinology likely know less than Derrick about this stuff unless they teach themselves which is essentially what Derrick has done

[@oliround]

Self education always outweighs classical education

[@logangraham4474]

@@ManjiMachinep

[@Cloudnine2024]

Probably my favorite Derek podcast! Peter is always a beast on the mic, but in this one, Derek also really seemed to enjoy it.

[@scottgilmour749]

He has a knack of getting the best from his host. His interview of Lance Armstrong was the best I've watched

[@connormatthews522]

It's nice to see Derek talking to someone who can actually keep up haha

[@briancohen-doherty4392]

No shit huh!?

[@emilybarry9410]

This conversation is yet another reminder to me of how grateful I am that HIGHLY educated and prolific people come together to share their knowledge, passion, views on confusing topics with clarity and grace. Thank you Peter and Derek!!🙏💜 🤗

[@jimmy4993]

Incorrect, educated people to be exact.

[@coryg121]

info I would consider superior to any kind of formal education all jam-packed into 3.5hrs and all for free. Pretty remarkable!

[@tydupont8084]

The amount of knowledge Derek has from experience and his own research is crazy. Always learn something new from him

[@enid681]

Dr. Attia, Please! do a part two of your interview. I follow both you and Derek and this interview was out of this world. Nice to see how people have things in common and can provide the public information that enhances and educates their lives.

[@LasheXX]

Wow, not expected Derek and Peter 🙂

[@kateaye3506]

Right?! First time in ages I am actually going to listen to the entire episode. More of these sorts of collabs.

[@aquilesmasdmd]

I’m so impressed with the depth of knowledge Derek has. He spews the stuff out like gospel. He should be a resource for Peter they would make a great team.

[@Real28]

That's what you get when a smart person becomes obsessed with a topic and spends their life just learning everything they can about it, all the time.

[@jacksonr260]

I love that Peter judges Derek as a legitimate source on this stuff because of the content of what he says, not based simply on whether or not he is a doctor or has a degree in it. Those indicators of knowledge are often important, but not the be all-end all of people who can contribute meaninfully to this discussion.

[@joserobertoguerreroroldan8406]

Certanly this is one of the best interviews with Derek. Mr Peter Attia is so respectful of what Derek is going to say, having the humbleness to lissen and learn something else outside of the medical field is very pleasing to watch. Unfortunally, almost every doctor is so narrow minded and most of them get offended if You give your opinion on some topic related to medicine. First thing they say ¿Are You a doctor? That bothers me a lot.

[@joerobberechts4547]

Probably one of the best 2 content creators in this space, amazing to see you two together. The bro science- evidence based combo makes for some funny moments lol

[@Reformsqua]

As incredibly impressive that Derek's expertise is, he would admittedly defer to his friend Laith Rex (RIP) on many topics. This podcast and the comment section really makes me understand how incredible Laith was

[@scarylarry4625]

His real name was actually Laith Algaz. "Rex" was just part of his stage name "Leo Rex". I couldn't agree more though. His knowledge and dedication were truly one of a kind

[@simplyhuman2213]

Laith loved Peter’s podcast too. He would be proud

[@aberwood]

This is a great advert for self education. Derek holding an in depth discussion with a guy whos at the top of the medical field despite zero formal education. Great talk!

[@Terrorist_Hunter]

As one of Australia's original sports supplement and body building nutritionist (Former Australian INBA President and EAS Body 4 Life nutritionist)I love EVERYTHING that both Peter and Derek do individually so having them discuss the advancements of supplements & anabolics is AWESOME!

[@fitafanatomy3359]

I never competed before and I’m bigger than both of you

[@2K9s]

Bill Phillips, EAS… Legend.

[@LT3D]

I'm glad Derek set the record straight about 70s bodybuilders. The drug abuse was rampant, but no growth or insulin. They also came off completely from time to time.

[@justvibing2497]

Yeah 70's juiced hard

[@peternagy-im4be]

​@justvibing2497 who doesn't?

[@paddy3622]

derek's honesty is so refreshing. younger kids should watch this and learn.

[@petermartff]

I love the fact that Dr attia, with his traditional medical background, will delve into these topics that most doctors are clueless about.This is fantastic. The fact that derrick is even in the same room with Peter, goes to show that derrick is the real deal. Highest level of Respect to both of them !

[@mortenpaskins6073]

This was so good, please have Derek back on soon. Looking forward to part two

[@treblecharged]

Always blown away by how much Derek knows

[@thefunctionaloncologist7811]

I am very glad that this discussion happened. I think it probably raised Dr. Attia’s awareness about the alternative health care options that are broadly used in the community as he has a very niche patient population. I am glad that he is interested in learning about strategies used for aesthetics, body building, and by many active gym goers/ fitness influencers. Derek is well aware of this world of peptides and other compounds used to improve aesthetics often under the guise of or supporting health. I respect both of their perspectives as they definitely serve different demographics with quite a bit of cross over in some areas. Thanks, guys! I am an avid fan of both of you!

[@Bnbleverage]

The craziest thing about this video is that its a doctor asking questions to a KZbinr. Shows how much Derek really knows his stuff.

[@BigDees19]

Peter knew everything already just didnt want to make derek sound dumb

[@peternagy-im4be]

​@yourDoom8 very funny

[@rufisdodd4318]

Strange to me that he comes all the way to Austin and when they film they don't have any wide shots with both of them. It's nice sometime to see reactions.

[@dylandimo]

2 gems here. The best of both worlds. Great interview

[@RamRod333]

Derek is one of my favorite people on KZbin. He is unbelievably knowledgeable. Just him talking motivates me to go the gym😂 Been watching his channel for years.

[@bogrunberger]

Taking DHEA changed my life. I'm 46 and for years I've been feeling exhausted all the time, moody, anxious and irritable. Since I began taking DHEA (50 mg) daily - except weekends - it's like I got the old me back. My mood is fine, I'm calm and my energy levels are high. I don't think it's changed anything regarding my physiology, but quality of life has skyrocketed.

[@leelunk8235]

I TAKE 100 MGS OF DHEA BEFORE BEDTIME BEEN DOING IT FOR MANY YEARS..IM STEROID FREE ALL MY LIFE..CANT DAY DHEA IS DOING ANYTHING

[@bigzachful]

Have you noticed any negatives at all?

[@leelunk8235]

@@bigzachful NOTHING NEGETIVE, I WOULD LIKE TO DO BLOOD WORK TO SEE IF MY DHEA IS HIGHER OR WHAT NOT

[@BillHesse]

I really enjoyed this. I’m a physical therapist and on TRT. Some of the topics covered here have been thought provoking about the role an excellent PT could contribute to someone who has an injury or orthopedic pain and will jump to a drug they maybe could go without in this very specific population. Really good talk and it’s been a joy to listen to this all.

[@ReyahtRob]

3 1/2 hours of a doctor asking how the body works is the most surreal thing I've ever seen

[@aquilesmasdmd]

I feel I’ve been to a three hour top tier pharmacology, biology, and endocrinology lecture with two absolute experts. Totally mind blowing on many levels. First that some people do so many and so much drugs. And the ability to control so many hormones at different parts of the development pathways or exogenously is just fascinating.

[@marknolan2799]

I'm approaching my senior years so I have little interest in PED's but it was still a very interesting conversation. This is without a doubt my favorite podcast. Dr. Attia's skills as a communicator and interviewer are among the very best. Not to mention his knowledge base and intellect. When you consider the other demands on his time, I don't know how he does it.

[@danielwhyte9172]

I personally think the senior years are when intelligent use of PED's might be most useful and needed.

[@marknolan2799]

@@danielwhyte9172 I don't know enough to say either way. I feel pretty good so if it's not broken.... That said I'm sure it would put some pep in my step. But alas, these are first world concerns.

[@liamcregan5187]

I was one of Derek first subs on youtube when he created his channel when he was a GLL member. He really is a great guy.

[@creez1]

Great pod! You guys rocked it! I probably only understood half of it. Derek, you're a beast when it comes to homrone function, production and impact. Awesome!!!

[@shawnbouvier1]

Love how the Doc is asking Derik all the med questions...it shows the medical community doesn't know much about this topic when it comes to real life use. Intresting video lots of knowledge from both parties.

[@giosasso]

Fascinating discussion. I think I almost understood 7 minutes of it but intetesting on every level. I have to admit, I 'm surprised with all the talk about treatments for balding that neither of you mentioned Low Level Laser treatment. It's FDA approved and no side effects and as effective as the drugs. I bought an LLLT device in 2003, before FDA approval and it was one of the best purchases i ever made. It definitely works. I still use it and I still have hair. All the men on my dads side are bald. I am not. Anybody looking for a safe treatment for alopecia, i highly recommend it. And the earlier you start, the more hair you'll regain and keep. Great show!

[@miaash3870]

Would you please share the name of your LLLT device?

[@giosasso]

​@@miaash3870I have a Hairmax device. They have more advanced models now compared to 20 years ago when I bought one. I need to upgrade😅

[@jpezman1]

As a Medic I have witnessed on two occasions pt's with pain in their necks and TBI like symptoms. These pt's both were in their 40's and later diagnosed to have carotid dissection. Both passed away in the operating room unfortunately and I have been told the mortality rate is very high.

[@kagefisk]

This man made me go into medschool and I thank him

[@nequestns]

No issues with finasteride after 10 years of use. Minoxidil is almost useless in my experience. Zero issues as noted and I believe this will add protection for BPH. Finasteride does not eradicate DHT, just reduces it to a degree it. Derek is correct. DHT is mainly needed during puberty and less so afterward.

[@MichaelHerrera-p9s]

So interesting. I also follow Derek who gave the initial education to absorb this detailed conversation. Part 2 sounds even better because it's the actionable info I can use to get leaner - not for bodybuilding - but for general fitness. Thanks guys...

[@maritimetees2315]

Every single fitness person should watch this. It's youtube University at its best. Thank you for this. 😊

[@courtneycartwright4975]

This is the collaboration I need!!!! I am reading outlive and I’ve been a long time mpmd subscriber!!!

[@espinosalexis]

You missed an obvious conversation about the TRIIM trial for Thymus and longevity, which is based on GH and DHEA use! Please talk about this in near future podcasts!

[@peterneil4786]

This is great! Thanks Peter and Derek for putting this together.

[@Joseph_Christopher]

I’m pretty sure Derek has a photographic memory. Not only to read and understand the scientific studies, but to retain and recall, the knowledge at will is simply amazing.

[@HeliosEffect]

Wow, cool to see Derek here!

[@AshyLarryTM]

Harvard did a 10 year study on Growth Hormones. Their conclusion was that every single person should be on growth hormones at some point in their life. Because of that study, I went on GAA for a year. I only took 5 iu’s daily. My take on GAA? Everyone needs to be on it at some point. I never felt better in my adult life. I had to stop it because it was over 7K for the year. Sad that people have to fight for what’s good for them.

[@Davidh741]

Harvard steady also say Adults with bona fide GH deficiencies benefit from GH injections. They enjoy protection from fractures, increased muscle mass, improved exercise capacity and energy, and a reduced risk of future heart disease. But there is a price to pay. Up to 30% of patients experience side effects that include fluid retention, joint and muscle pain, carpal tunnel syndrome (pressure on the nerve in the wrist causing hand pain and numbness), and high blood sugar levels. but even smaller doses can lead to complications such as heart disease and diabetes. 30% risk no thanks

[@Davidh741]

It also contradicts your statement GH does not appear to be either safe or effective for young athletes or healthy older men. But that doesn't mean you have to sit back and let Father Time peck away at you. Instead, use the time-tested combination of diet and exercise. Aim for a moderate protein intake of about .36 grams per pound of body weight; even big men don't need more than 65 grams (about 2 ounces) a day, though athletes and men recovering from illnesses or surgery might do well with about 20% more. Plan a balanced exercise regimen; aim for at least 30 minutes of moderate exercise, such as walking, a day, and be sure to add strength training two to three times a week to build muscle mass and strength. You'll reduce your risk of many chronic illnesses, enhance your vigor and enjoyment of life, and - it's true - slow the tick of the clock.

[@AshyLarryTM]

@@Davidh741 That’s a bunch of BS. If you only take what your body naturally produces as a 15 year old which is exactly what I did there’s nothing but benefits from GH. Even as adults we still produce GH. It’s natural to the human body and we as humans have cannabinoid receptors specifically made to intake GH. Like anything else, abuse it and you will have diabetic issues. Hell, you’ll grow an extra breast or testicle or have many complications from an excessive amount in your body. Tell me this. If those are facts that you’re trying to pass as truth are correct then why don’t kids suffer from those things? I’ll tell you why. Because their GH levels are at exactly where they need to be. I studied GH for almost two years before I took it. Nothing I read in any of the studies I came across mentioned a single side effect other than positive progress when taken on a monitored regimen. AND! I can tell you this. After being on it for a year, I had not a single problem being on it. Not so much as a sniffle. What I did experience was sharper eye sight, better skin, pains I carried on a daily basis went away, I was stronger, had much more energy, was more focused, my sense of smell went through the roof. I could go on and on. And all I did was give myself 5 IU’s every morning which is what an average 15 year old produce’s. So before you go parroting things from other people who don’t know what they are talking about either I suggest you get your info from a reputable source. Harvard University being one of them. Peace ✌️

[@AshyLarryTM]

@@Davidh741 contradicts what I said? I didn’t say young athletes should be on it. What I said was everybody at some point in their life needs to be on it. And I got that from Harvard. I didn’t come out and say that myself. Are you trying to tell me you’re smarter than a Harvard scientist that did the tenure study? That’s pretty hubristic of you. Get your facts straight. As for diet, obviously diet helps but diet isn’t gonna stop you from getting joint erosion which is another benefit of growth hormone. GH promotes the rebuilding of joint and Cartlidge. Diet isn’t going to stop you from low T which is one of the biggest problems in older men. Diet isn’t gonna stop you from getting osteoporosis which is something that growth hormone prevents. I can go on and on about this, but I’m not going to because you don’t know shit and it’s like arguing with a child. You’re just trying to sound like you know what your talking about. I’ll bet you trust in the Covid vaccine and Big Pharma too 😆 Look into what your fucking talking about before you open your mouth.

[@jeremytrapp4394]

Derek's most refined, top of his game in this one. Wonder what nootropic stack he was on too.

[@realgains1538]

I'm 61 and my total T is the same as it was at age 27 when I first got my total T checked.(550ng/dl). Both times I went to the lab at 8am to try to catch the highest T (likely that is earlier in the day than that). I always train with weights hard and have for many years. Now ....when I stop squatting in my training my T drops to about 450 no matter how hard I train without squats. In fact last year I really went hard on deep high bar Olympic squats for high reps of 15-20 (Tom Platz style and they are deathly hard)and dead-lifts for a 3 month cycle and my T went to 750ng/dl ! DEFINITELY high intensity weight lifting , especially heavy compound leg and back work, increases T production in men.

[@iblisthemage]

My two favourite sources of health and biohacking knowledge. I am going to watch and rewatch, so happy that this collab happened. Also, this is intense! Peter is really diving in with the questions, obvious that Derek is not used to that level of scientific curiosity, I think both are in heaven. These minds meet and exchange ideas, coming from such different worlds. Bravo to both for the bravery.

[@jeffreysummers6843]

They didn’t touch on using cooling of the testicles and working out to increase Luteinizing hormone naturally. I have 1060 total T from cold showers and exercise. Better to bump up your hormones with environmental stimulus. Probably why the Scottish wore kilts.

[@iblisthemage]

@@jeffreysummers6843 You have 1060 from your genes. Excercise and other similar interventions have minor impact, much greater is (bad) food, and (bad) sleep. 1060 means nothing. My natty T was 1150 before going on TRT (M54), and I felt like shit. Bumping it to 1400 was the "ahhhh" sensation of feeling great again. I do excercise, cold, diet, sleep, yada yada. You (and I) just have high natural levels of T. At a certain point in time, that level will drop below your feel-good threshhold, at that point in time you will probably need a higher dose of Test than normal people. When that day comes, hopefully when you are very old: Please please start with 250 IU of HCG (daily pinning), and then add T Enanthate, daily pinning, on top of that. If your doc says T only, or T Cypionate, find a new doc. You will probably need 175mg/week +/- something, which is highish, but that is because your natty baseline is borderline supraphysical. Copy/paste this into your phone, and review it when the day comes. I would have sworn it would never be me. But age is a thing, and you loose 1-2% pr year, it accellerates after 50.

[@musclemedicine_M.D]

Aortic dissections more common in CT disorders like EDS’s, Marfans syndrome, or 2ndary to HTN; remember GH/IGF1 improves collagen synthesis (%of each type I’d have to double check but certain AAS like Nandrolones specifically really improves prepro-coll.3 levels by ~277%) & should reduce dissections. But keep in mind, Acromegalics may have other endocrine abnormalities (Test/E2/E1,T4/T3, increased binding proteins etc) which could offset the findings.

[@StaRStuNinHD]

Some of the smartest guys in the fitness industry. Very interesting podcast to watch!

[@jundurahman1]

Wow! This is packed to the brim with knowledge. Two of my favorite online health professionals.

[@farsa022]

Wow this is the craziest crossover 🤯 like iron man and captain America teaming up. Excited for this one!

[@stuartbowenjr8393]

Super high-level! Utterly fascinating! Thank you for never dumbing down your content. Keep up the excellent work!

[@DoomDarkness]

Downloaded, can’t wait to listen. Next vigorous Steve please 🙏

[@Timewaits4no1]

"drinking is part of a culture". I think this is true, and why AA helps a lot of people. You become part of a pack that understand where you're coming from, and don't judge you for it. It's not for everyone, but it has helped me once I found the right group(Agnostic) I couldn't do the god thing. In a society that glorifies, and pushes alcohol all the time, it can be tough to feel like your paddling up stream. Particularly if you're doing it solo. After I got sober, I had so much more time to fill, and it was important for me to stay busy. I now hit the gym 4-6x's a week, and have gotten myself into the best shape of my life. I hike all the time as it helps my head, and body, play disc golf, go to concerts, and sporting events, and have now even gotten into competitive shooting. I'm a very different person than I was a few years ago, and it has been the best thing I've ever done for myself. Is it hard, yeah..but is it worth it? Oh hell yeah! Good vid, I subscribed

[@rockroll7649]

Derek's IQ must be off the charts. He could be a guest lecturer at any medical school.

[@BigDees19]

😂😂 to talk about steroids and tren ?

[@rockroll7649]

@@BigDees19I'm sure that you are capable of, with no formal education, discussing androgenic alopecia, C reactive proteins, the side effects of androgens and estrogenic metabolites, aromatase inhibitors, the details of the relevant genetic factors, and the details of CBC testing with one of the world's most recognizable doctors in a public forum while still retaining your credibility.

[@BigDees19]

@@rockroll7649 😆so you learned all that from him ? 😂 When there's actual medical professional channels out there and plenty of books, that talk and are the real deal like Peter is. Or ya know maybe school too? But I also learned everything myself as well. I know the basic information he does. That's all basic biology bro 😂. But hey if knowing simple cbc complete blood is so omg to you then cool rockroll. This is literally a steroid gym douche. That' tries way to hard to sound smart and got lucky thats all since there wasn't many channels like him for gym douches so his blew up that's it it could of been anyone else.

[@theandrewaragon]

Derek is mentally and physically a beast. To have nuanced convo with a cerebral beast like Peter is awesome. Thank u both.

[@AAAAAA-fj3dh]

One of the best episodes. Looking forward to part 2, 3, 4.....

[@electricviking]

Dave Palumbo, who was known for his distended stomach, gives a far better explanation of why this occurs and what causes it: 1:27:01-What explains the protruding abdomens on some bodybuilders & athletes?

[@bradleyhiphop]

Some of the best content on the internet. Love the advanced/next level content between you two cognitive heavyweights!!

[@SamGeorgeRowe]

Loved listening to this conversation. It’s refreshing to hear an MD with a fascination in bodybuilding and it’s relevance to pharma and healthcare. Will tune in for Part 2

[@Jharry510]

More Plate More Dates! Go Derek man big now.

[@WyattWesterftw]

MAN I WAS IN A MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT AND BROKE MY ELBOW REQUIRING SURGERY ! 4 months after surgery I was still suffering severely from these symptoms! Finally my surgeon gave me a cortisone shot and I found this after… they all thought tennis elbow but after trying just 1 set of all your excersizes I dent all the affected areas feel looser and less pain!! I think it really is the radial nerve!

[@johnmacdonald713]

Dude is holding his own with one of the smartest dudes around. Derrick is legit

[@dradeel]

This was a really good episode. Comprehensive, yet detailed, and wonderfully concise, yet broad spectrum. Loved it. Would even love a follow up with even more detailed on treatments, protocols, side effects, and discussions on the experimental stuff and the potential future treatments on the horizon.

[@proddreamatnight]

Damn dude Derek is super knowledgable

[@user-lh2xn5iy2p]

This is like a compilation of all the good videos of mpmd before reactions videos. Love it and will keep watching it back to back

[@MrTech153]

yea

[@lgingermcdonaldfrederiksen7437]

What a thoughtful and detailed discussion of hormonal axis in men and women..way to go

[@Vscustomprinting]

Trying to keep control whole talking about biology is so weird..

[@ew8311]

I’m on TRT and HGH so my blood is checked regularly. I had the Moderna vaccine and now have abnormalities in my blood. Every day is nerve wracking.

[@leelunk8235]

LOL..U GOT THE SHOT CAUSE SLEEPY JOE TOLD U IT WAS GOOD FOR U..GET OFF THE ROIDS YO..

[@ew8311]

@@leelunk8235 I’m not a Democrat dude. Quite the opposite (I’ve had a strong dislike for them and have for 20 years). I was offered the vaccine early because I work in remote communities that were at high risk. I’m in health care and there had been multiple youth suicides and felt I needed to be there as a professional and to provide for my family. I regret it every day. My wife and kids didn’t get it (thankfully) because of the damage it did to me. It meant they were effectively kept out of public life for two years (I live in Canada). I suffered severe neurological damage from the vax and as a result spoke out against the it, but was gaslit by the health system and couldn’t get treatment. Eventually, I found a doctor who had some success treating vaccine injuries. The HGH healed my neurological symptoms and the TRT brought the rest of my health back to normal. The doctor who prescribed them probably saved my life. Also, TRT isn’t roids. They are used to restore normal levels of testosterone if used correctly. I’m left wondering why you’re so sensitive on the issue of “roids” when you seem to know nothing about TRT. You made assumptions about me and only revealed yourself to be an ass. Regardless, I hope you are well and recover from the high cost of this current administration. It’s staggering the damage they’ve inflicted on your country. Peace.

[@jeffreyramirez8183]

2 of my favorites in 1 podcast. Can’t wait for part 2

[@RobertNaik]

Same

[@stephm4047]

Well that was impressive ! 3 1/2 hours with dense knowledge from both sides and a conversation which is always enjoyable to listen to.

[@maxrises]

2:07:59 "when are you starting" killed me^^

[@LewyBlackmore]

As an active professional bodybuilder, coach and educator this was a great conversation and message to put out there for sure

[@ianstaniskov7198]

This is the best podcast episode ever 👌 two greatest minds in optimisation

[@doop445]

I loved this, two men differently informed on a shared interest and calmly respecting the flow of the conversation

[@ankurd2889]

Derek just blew me away... this guy goes deep...\m/

[@NicksHEAT1995]

Derek is smarter than most doctors out there 4 sure.

[@gunsandpoker7432]

Bro science hit big time.

[@jamesshaffer4694]

Dr Attia Limb lengthening via distraction osteogenesis is a long standing technique in Orthopaedics. It has been used for deformity correction and after severe trauma for decades. It is very controversial to use to increase height as the risks are serious. If you have an interest, consider having a pediatric orthopedist or trauma orthopedist on the show to discuss. But even among these groups it’s a niche procedure that isn’t performed by everyone. James Shaffer, MD

[@juicybacon12]

Took me two weeks but finally made it thru the whole vid😂

[@BeatsAndMeats]

I had a friend who’s growth plates were closing at 12yrs old, he was very VERY small. His projected height was gonna be 5’. His parents put him on “growth hormones” and he ended up 6’2”! Seems cool to me!

[@bigzachful]

I wish I was able to take growth when I was a teen.

[@BeatsAndMeats]

@@bigzachful You and me both buddy!

[@abuwadie3]

Derek held his own with the big dogs!

[@los31388]

This is a great crossover for science and sports medicine and a magnificent tactic to expand your audience Dr. Attia

[@andrewgallegos7448]

Such a good podcast PACKED with information

[@natecastronovo]

So much respect for both. It's a bit hard to watch/listen as I feel like , while Derek is well aware of the consequences, talking through them there's a glimmer of it really registering even now during the conversation. Men (and women) are so desperate to feel able to compete, whether it's for a mate or social relevance. It's really sad to know that they get results that make them feel so good in the moment only to be crushed by dire consequences over time - ESPECIALLY when so many people aren't truly aware of the real risk and consequence. I have had the disheartening experience of unknowingly being the first to tell a pair of young guys about some of the serious risks, only to learn that they were both flooding themselves with anabolics from some site with zero idea that there were any risks at all. These videos are really helpful. Everyone should do what they want with their own body, but it's so valuable to have information that is often left unknown to people who may be otherwise blindsided.

[@hummelperformance]

My doctor acts like he knows everything about testosterone it's so frustrating. I've learned way more from Leo Longevity and Vigorous Steve ( Derek did Bio bros w them) than any doctor ever could have taught me. Derek is very educated on it too. This is great content

[@adamcoates6127]

I’m a 2nd year Biochemistry student and I don’t know this much! Very impressive

[@westfield90]

Twice now Peter has raised the Finesteride syndrome but he has not clearly explained what the concern is? He has been nebulous about some irreversible damage but I can’t seem to find where he explains it. Is it the masking of the PSA value, is it the retrograde ejaculation? Both which do have workarounds?

[@lh5520]

Anecdotal accounts of patients experiencing irreversible side effects seemed to be his biggest concern, the risk ratio for a cosmetic issue which he personally doesn't seem to be as interested in. Blocking off really key enzymatic processes in the body leads to disrupted neurosteroid production maybe something else he is concerned about. He did seem ominous about it without really mentioning why, just personal opinion?

[@adamrowley5389]

@@lh5520the problem is, the anecdotal reports are just that… there’s absolutely no evidence that finasteride causes permanent side effects. Absolutely no evidence that the drug effects neurosteroids. Many of the anti-finasteride crowed are complete conspiracy theorists.

[@westfield90]

@@lh5520thank you

[@Yiahi65]

Because it’s a growing issue in the medical industry. And many major doctors are going against it because of how many guys it makes permanently impotent. Gave me perm ED. And treatments don’t work for many guys like tadalafil and viagra completely ineffective

[@russolifts]

Literally the worst possible event in your life if you get that, but its a minority so no one truly cares rather this is the best hairloss compound

[@Peter-wo7tv]

As someone hanging around this subject and dabbling for a number of years it was so refreshing to get a long form, intelligent discussion rather than bro science or even what comes for some doctors. I wish they would have touched on testosterone undecanoate as a choice for TRT. But just a fascinating discussion. Loved it.

[@Vscustomprinting]

Ego is so irrational, huh

[@mmmaaattteeeiii]

This is gold!

[@musclemedicine_M.D]

Mk677 is orally active bc it’s not a peptide like all the others listed which are extremely delicate. It’s interesting bc it shows higher levels of IR not equivalent to say the same IGF1 response from X dose of injectable GH. It’s fluid retention is also disproportionate. This all needs to be taken into account when managing your client. Also unlike GH which nearly always improves sleep, w/ Mk677 about 50% experience some level of sleep disturbance, like nightmares/vivid dreams etc. making it less desirable for a key demographic (children)..🤔its solo response in older pts (55-65yo) was surprisingly good w/ IGF1 increases 55-88%.

[@monztermovies]

Awesome! Way to go Derek!

[@Future_looksbright]

Derek changed my life and spoke to this stuff before it was cool. Now it’s mainstream.