286‒Journal club with Andrew Huberman: light exposure on mental health & an immunotherapy for cancer

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Andrew Huberman returns for another special journal club episode. He introduces an observational study investigating the influence of light exposure on circadian clock regulation & its link to mental health, while Peter covers a phase III clinical trial employing immune checkpoint inhibitors for the treatment of metastatic cancer. They delve into the essential findings of their respective papers, elucidate the reasons for their enthusiasm, & tackle potential limitations & unanswered questions. Additionally, they provide valuable insights into their approaches for comprehending research studies, aiding listeners in independently navigating this process.
We discuss:
0:00:00
0:00:11-Relationship between light exposure, circadian rhythms, & mental health
0:09:13-Importance of low solar angle sunlight
0:15:25-Lightbulb technology that simulates low solar angle sunlight
0:17:51-Significance of darkness & the need for direct light exposure to the eyes
0:20:22-Tips regarding optimizing light exposure & effects on circadian rhythm
0:23:57-Andrew presents a paper which suggests avoiding light at night & seeking light during the day is associated with better mental health
0:33:31-Negative impact of increasing nighttime light exposure & the positive effects of daytime light exposure
0:46:18-Statistical analysis: the importance of focusing not only on statistical significance but also clinical relevance, power analysis, error bar range, & more
0:50:45-Takeaways from the study of daytime & nighttime light exposure
0:56:53-The practicalities of minimizing light exposure & screen time at night, sleep trackers, & challenge of modern, indoor lifestyles
1:08:30-Potential limitations of the light exposure study, reverse causality, & the complex interplay of variables in epidemiological studies
1:16:29-A tangent on diet soda & sugar substitutes as an example of reverse causality
1:21:23-Opinions on the causality vs. correlation of light exposure to mental health, the damage of circadian disruption, & the interpretation of observational data
1:29:59-Primer on the immune system
1:41:46-Background on cancer: causes, how it evades the immune system, & the logic behind immune checkpoint inhibitor therapy
1:57:45-Peter presents a paper on immune checkpoint inhibitor therapy in cancer patients
2:08:14-Unpacking the results of the checkpoint inhibitor trial
2:25:51-Noteworthy observations, including the differing results between males & females
2:30:35-Adverse effects from treatment with an immune checkpoint inhibitor targeting CTLA-4
2:36:48-Why melanoma is especially responsive to immunotherapy, & the remarkable success story of immunotherapy for pancreatic cancer
2:48:18-Why immunotherapy may be the most important hope we have for treating cancer
2:52:00-Avoiding melanoma: sunscreen, sunburn risk factor
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The Peter Attia Drive is a deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing longevity, & all that goes into that from physical to cognitive to emotional health. With over 70 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including exercise, nutritional biochemistry, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, & much more.
Peter Attia is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan & simultaneously improving their healthspan.
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[@PeterAttiaMD]

In this episode, we discuss: 0:00:11-Relationship between light exposure, circadian rhythms, & mental health 0:09:13-Importance of low solar angle sunlight 0:15:25-Lightbulb technology that simulates low solar angle sunlight 0:17:51-Significance of darkness & the need for direct light exposure to the eyes 0:20:22-Tips regarding optimizing light exposure & effects on circadian rhythm 0:23:57-Andrew presents a paper which suggests avoiding light at night & seeking light during the day is associated with better mental health 0:33:31-Negative impact of increasing nighttime light exposure & the positive effects of daytime light exposure 0:46:18-Statistical analysis: the importance of focusing not only on statistical significance but also clinical relevance, power analysis, error bar range, & more 0:50:45-Takeaways from the study of daytime & nighttime light exposure 0:56:53-The practicalities of minimizing light exposure & screen time at night, sleep trackers, & challenge of modern, indoor lifestyles 1:08:30-Potential limitations of the light exposure study, reverse causality, & the complex interplay of variables in epidemiological studies 1:16:29-A tangent on diet soda & sugar substitutes as an example of reverse causality 1:21:23-Opinions on the causality vs. correlation of light exposure to mental health, the damage of circadian disruption, & the interpretation of observational data 1:29:59-Primer on the immune system 1:41:46-Background on cancer: causes, how it evades the immune system, & the logic behind immune checkpoint inhibitor therapy 1:57:45-Peter presents a paper on immune checkpoint inhibitor therapy in cancer patients 2:08:14-Unpacking the results of the checkpoint inhibitor trial 2:25:51-Noteworthy observations, including the differing results between males & females 2:30:35-Adverse effects from treatment with an immune checkpoint inhibitor targeting CTLA-4 2:36:48-Why melanoma is especially responsive to immunotherapy, & the remarkable success story of immunotherapy for pancreatic cancer 2:48:18-Why immunotherapy may be the most important hope we have for treating cancer 2:52:00-Avoiding melanoma: sunscreen, sunburn risk factor

[@nehasinha]

This is great! Could I also request you to provide us with chapter markers on the video? That would make it much easier to navigate this video ♥️

[@3TNT3]

Thank you

[@fuze59]

Peter is an absolute powerhouse of being able to read and interpret studies. I learned a tonne from his breakdown on stats.

[@bushwickbill3643]

You two have greatly impacted my life, thank you!

[@hermes537]

Since I listened to this rather technical video my relationship with the sun has decidedly improved. As I got older I felt the need to avoid too much sun, almost to distrust it. Now I can feel how much exposure is good for me and it means that I seek sunlight rather than shade.

[@shaunshelly3314]

I really enjoy this journal club format. The different and overlapping areas of expertise and shared curiosity makes for compelling listening.

[@OutperformCancer]

I understand why you say that the overall survival of solid tumor cancers is zero, but I've met someone who has been healed from stage 4 uterine cancer after being told she had six months to live and that there was "zero" chance of survival. She currently has no evidence of disease and it has been 12 years since her diagnosis. She is a well-regarded doctor of psychiatry (MD) who practiced at a university medical center. She was skeptical of her healing, so she had her tumor sample sent to MD Anderson for a second analysis to ensure she wasn't misdiagnosed. The pathology confirmed her original diagnosis. While certainly the vast majority of people do not recover from stage 4 solid tumors, I think we should keep the conversation open to include these anomalies because we need to understand why they are successful. When doctors say "zero chance" it shuts down that conversation. While I only personally know one person with this experience, I've read many similar stories. I don't think we know enough to say "zero".

[@alikom9584]

Hello! My daughter had a solid tumor cancer, stage 4. She is alive. 5 years pasted, she has some side effects after chemotherapy. Most people thought that she didn't have any chance, but we managed to heal. And we are not an exception. You are right! There are a lot of such stories.

[@Funymoney010]

I’m assuming that the data they use the survival odds are probably less than 0.5% so they round down to 0%.

[@HkFinn83]

Mistake in diagnosis is more likely. As much as we want to believe in miracles…yeh

[@OutperformCancer]

Actually the woman is an MD, PhD and she had the diagnosis confirmed at MD Anderson who reanalyzed the tumor sample. I t was not a mistake. @@HkFinn83

[@3TNT3]

​@alikom9584 Praise GOD, Hallelujah!!! Sooo happy to hear about your daughter's miracle recovery. May she be disease free for the rest of her Life!

[@zarathustra007]

The podcast we need.

[@joanfreyre]

Super interesting episode.

[@microbiomemd2934]

Strong work guys. Another great episode and keep up the good work!

[@maxamerimaka]

The study on melanoma was much appreciated, thank you!

[@Annhienmoingay3333]

Sending healing thoughts and positive energy your way.

[@RiverPaisley]

I grew up with Dana Small ❤️ we met in 6th-7th grade. She’s such a great human being.

[@emilyboud]

My father had melanoma that metastasized to all his major internal.organs, including his brian in 2015, and was a part of a clinical trial at Moffitt Cancer Center inTampa with ipinuvolimad with Bristol Mysrers Squib and Praise God he is still with us today with no trace of cancer.

[@3TNT3]

Praise GOD, Hallelujah!!!

[@user-ei3jq4yg1d]

Thanks for all you guys do for us! To clarify, Andrew, are you saying that bright light exposure at night DOES squash our melatonin levels, but it does NOT affect our circadian rhythm?

[@brookeanderson2631]

The part about hospital light being terrible and lacking windows…I said out loud try working in that for 20 years and my NICU doesn’t have windows 😩 😅 just grateful I’m not at work 7 days a week. I always make a point to at least go outside for my lunch break during my 12 hour shift.

[@veryhappyone1]

Thank you for your eye opening information ❤

[@dianewelty7107]

2:50. Thank you for updating info:RE malignant melanoma. Starting with RIBI immunochem out of school in Montana ( GSK now) 1985. Sister in law died at 29....CNS metastatic. Immunology is key. Now at NIAID in Montana. There's hope.

[@releasethekraken5299]

To me Lux value (light quantity) is important but CRI (Color Rendering Index (light quality)) is usually overlooked. I remember when I gradually switched from incandescent bulbs to CFL (CRI 80), particularly in rooms were I spent most of my time, I felt something was wrong but couldn't pointed out the reason at first. I went back to incandescent (CRI 100) and first time I switched OFF to change bulbs and switched back ON I was wowed...MORE colors, MORE "life" and it was an immediate sort of relief. Like most of people I'm now using LED lights but nothing below CRI 97 and I'm particularly picky about color spectrum with as less as blue light during night, 2700° to 3200° K at night, 5200°K in the morning. Red light therapy with low level wavelengths of red light might be a subject for you.

[@JP-vx2sr]

Early morning light increases my anxiety a lot. But, by evening I'm more relaxed than i would be without the earlier exposure

[@mysticmeadow9116]

Is it truly anxiety or excitement about starting the new day? Try looking at it from a different perspective. Welcome the rush to feel alive, to start each day anew. Take deep breaths to fill your lungs with oxygen and freshen your brain to the positive side. Anxiety and excitement come from the same place in the brain. It's an interesting rabbit hole worth digging into.

[@3TNT3]

Eeeeeven between May and September, and juuuust before the sun has peaked over the horizon, or aszzz it is doing so?????

[@lewmano7367]

Great episode, as someone covered in moles I have always been petrified of melanoma. Great to hear the somewhat hopeful future of immunology therapy for the disease, but still equally scary to see the dire situation and stats of those affected with late stages of that disease. That coupled with the debated relationship between Vitamin D levels and all cancer (melanoma included) and avoidance of the sun to limit melanoma...

[@Crepitom]

At 45:20, as someone who has been both severely depressed and also anxious (in different time periods ), tells me it is correlation. It doesn’t seem to effect anxiety (makes sense; you still go outdoors and do stuff, so there’s light but it doesn’t help), when depressed it does correlate (when depressed; you stay at home because you don’t want to do anything).

[@samatoid]

very helpful!

[@NaturalHealing68]

good information

[@JP-vx2sr]

It's weird seeing people talk about this very seriously, because I've always been very particular about the spectrum of light I'm getting because i noticed 20 yrs ago it had a strong impact on my mood and anxiety. Also i hate lights mounted to the ceiling. Soft light is great, bounced off the ceiling.

[@takyrica]

I also hate lights mounted on the ceiling. I never understood why lol

[@N22883]

In regards to the sun exposure and risk of melanoma, I have a few questions: - we can compare two cases. Person A spends more total time with exposed skin in the sun. Maybe they get a solid tan that fades in the winter. But they rarely get burnt. Person B spends less time with exposed skin, but when they do, it more often results in sun burns. No tan Is person A less likely to get melanoma? I’d imagine not to any significant degree, but is a tan protective in any way? - what’s the safety profile of mineral vs chemical sunscreens? I did hear that even mineral sunscreens act chemically, is that true? - what does Andrew mean when he says endocrine disrupters? What is being disrupted, to what degree, what kinds of experiments show this, and is that significant? Thanks for the podcast!! Really look forward to listening in full later

[@Cathy-xi8cb]

Just wear sun protective garments and go forth!

[@3TNT3]

Seems to me that color vision verrrrry wellll could have evolved as a way to ***survive***, to be muuuch more able to spot predators before they ate you, and to much more easily spot fruits and vegetables growing on a tree, or on the ground, in a thicket, etc, to eat before you starved to death.

[@anitahernandez1207]

I've been a school bus driver, city bus driver, food delivery driver and have done weekly neighborhood community service (outdoors) all my life. I have experienced a lot of sun exposure even before sun screened car windows became the norm. I knew someone who was diagnosed with SAD during winter but was out in the sun daily. The ozone was already dramatically damaged at one point in history. Not quite convinced if the reversal of that damage was like a liver growing itself back again after a surgery. The theory of sun expose makes sense but still not convinced that it makes sense at this point in history. Those theories made more sense hundreds of years ago before so much technology and chemical factories.

[@knwoledgeispower]

Peter you should invite Prof. Gil Carvalho for one of these journal clubs

[@ccpetro]

The light that is discussed at ~17:30. What is the spelling of the name of the company? I can't find it. Would "Golden Hour" photo lights work the same?

[@TheProactivePatients]

Keytruda is now being used in those with stage 4 triple negative breast cancer (along with chemo).

[@quynhpham2924]

Like Dr Lustig’s view on the government and food industry being in on the payout, the medical profession and health industry have an invested monetary interest to continue to see cancer as a genetic disease vs a metabolic disease.

[@edwardnino9896]

Glow tape for dark rooms For maximizing bedroom darkness while safely getting to bathroom... I use glow in the dark tape to mark furniture corners, door frames, ceiling fan pulls, etc, it works great with no other lighting needed. The brightest brand I've found is Techno Glow Products, bright and long lasting. Huberman AND Attia.........the dream team!!

[@dawnfalch4772]

Any help with light exposure for totally blind people (zero light perception)?

[@MiPo3333]

Please define nighttime. Sleep? Evening activities too?

[@3TNT3]

23:23 - Verrrrrrrrry confusing point he makes, here. He says even a flash of bright light, 'in the 'middle of the night,' willlllllllll quash your melatonin levels, but it won't shift your circadian clock 'in the middle of the night.' 1. Whaaaaat's the difference????? 2. Isn't quashing your melatonin levels going to affect the quality, duration, etc of your sleep??? Ifff nottt, then whyyyyy do we even carrre about melatonin levels in the firrrrrrst place????? 3. Whaaaat is the ***specific*** definition of ',in the middle of the night???' Is that 10 PM - 2 AM, or Midnight to 4 AM, or 8 PM 'til 6 AM, or whaaaaat???

[@hombrealagua]

The Speedmaster poster

[@billlahr2452]

Wouldn't candle light or camp fire light be orange in spectrum?

[@janetalder9237]

too bad that the graphs showing the 2nd, 3rd, 4th quartiles night/day time light aren't labeled according to disorder

[@zalmylavi8351]

Hi! Big fan here! Do you wanna come out to Baltimore for a beautiful charity ride in July? It's a century on July 21st

[@KwipAI]

Yet another insightful episode! 🌟 Here's a sneak peek at 5 of our 12 key takeaways: 1. Prioritize Sunlight Exposure: Make an effort to get sunlight exposure during the day, especially in the morning and late afternoon, to potentially reduce symptoms of mental health disorders such as major depression, generalized anxiety, and PTSD. This is based on the study's findings that increased daytime light exposure is associated with lower risk for psychiatric disorders. 2. Embrace Darkness at Night: Ensure you have as much darkness exposure at night as possible. The study suggests that darkness at night has an independent and positive effect on mental health, which can be beneficial even if you're not getting enough sunlight during the day. 3. Consider Light Exposure Patterns: Be mindful of your patterns of light exposure. The study indicates that spreading your light exposure throughout the day and minimizing light at night can have significant mental health benefits. 4. Understand the Role of Light in Circadian Rhythms: Recognize that low solar angle sunlight in the morning and evening is crucial for setting your circadian clock, which can impact your sleep-wake cycle and overall mood. 5. Manage Technology Use at Night: Limit the use of bright screens at night, as excessive light exposure can disrupt your circadian rhythm and negatively affect mental health. If necessary, use devices with features that reduce blue light exposure. 👉 Uncover all 12 takeaways and get the full power summary at app.kwip.ai/episodes/TG8VM5-CTfw.

[@michaeljohnston9232]

Thanks I’m at work and couldn’t put my headphones on!

[@KwipAI]

@@michaeljohnston9232 can't miss out on this great content! Glad Kwip could help.

[@rosepetal9748]

❤❤❤

[@JelenaVM]

Call it anecdata but the whey protein I use thanks to Dr. Attia, makes me violently hungry later on, and I suspect it's the succralose in it. I know it's the protein powder because this doesn't happen if I don't take it. I'll try one without artificial sweetener and see what happens 🤫

[@JohnSmith-vy4lh]

Light is a frequency , and sound is a frequency, both have been known to cure illnesses. The earth resonates at a certain frequency and so does everything else including us. There is a lot to be learned about resonation which can be used for good or harm.

[@21972012145525]

Isn't this a reupload

[@user-cf5cy8rb5y]

Can u analzye all studies on supplements then summarize and rank them each based on evidence

[@GrowlingBearMedia]

Still so disappointed in Andrew for slap in the face that was the Zuckerberg episode,... I'mma skip this one if ya don't mind. :(

[@jimmybaker4821]

Pls dont associate with this guy attia.