2D Characters "Breaking" Tekken

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[@PeterLawrenceYT]

My personal biggest issue that wasn't touched upon in this video is the way Tekken's cast don't have anti air moves. This makes Akuma's demon flip feel so broken and extremely difficult to challenge.

[@MassiveZug]

That's a really great point that I totally should have covered! I completely agree; that's why I'm of the opinion they should just remove their moon jumps and re-work demon flip so it's not this bizarre "crush everything except a perfect jab" scenario.

[@InigoTK]

@@MassiveZug "crush everything but a jab, only if the character's jab has an high enough hitbox, is pressed at the right timing and akuma doesn't go for the option that beats jabs and m4s"

[@jestyo0o]

Most jabs whiff after a demon flip cancel and akuma doesn't get anything. Pakistani players like to get behind the demon flip and punish it

[@Nutt_lemmings]

I think they still fit in, I just see them as an air aop, not every move can hit aop but if I go to the lab and find a noce like m4 that can consistently hit them and get a combo, I'm okay with it.

[@mr.almezeini647]

@@Nutt_lemmings the difference is aop does not apply the same pressure as the jump+ almost every character has a move that can deal with aop unlike the jump which most characters can't deal with.

[@muby102]

It's strange because inserting a street fighter directly into tekken didn't take much for them to change about the character themselves. However, kazuya in smash (3d to 2d) was much harder to get right and they needed to give kazuya a lot of extra abilities just to make him work better

[@ehsun7822]

Actually.. they say it's harder to bring a 2d Character in 3d environment .. 3d Characters can be translated easily .. ie sf x tekken

[@Nutt_lemmings]

@@ehsun7822 but half the casts didn't feel like themselves in sfxt

[@ehsun7822]

@@Nutt_lemmings i don't know tbh.. i didn't even play sfxtekken Am just saying that i heard developers say that it's easier from 3d to 2d .. maybe coz they can just keep the 2d stuff and the things that have to do with 3d they remove them , or change their function

[@idoshanintendo]

The 2D characters the reason I even got Tekken 7 in the first place, I am glad they are here because they made me fall in love with the series.

[@Goteiii]

Eliza is kinda ok though. Geese and Akuma are problematic because of their MASSIVE damage. The problem is that the special cancels don't float the opponent so the damage scaling isn't there like normal juggles. Doing 50+damage before the actual launch happens is what really breaks these characters.

[@bung_chow]

i think it's simple; it's too easy to be offensive and too hard to be defensive in Tekken 7. this exasperates the 2d characters strengths, in my opinion.

[@khurram0199]

Welcome back man. I was waiting for your videos !!

[@Some1Something]

SF6 should get a tekken character that has an unseeable overhead that can potentially take %99 of the opponent's health bar.

[@thecpu3949]

nah just 20 second-long combos with wall to wall carry and good oki, also doable from a jab if you got meter

[@Some1Something]

@@thecpu3949 why not both?

[@espelhogamer]

I just think they should be able to sidestep into the background/towards the screen whenever they want with the 2D character having no homing move or other way to hit them lol

[@genzo454]

Paul: *Now this looks like a job for me*

[@Some1Something]

@@espelhogamer Perfect! Collective suffering is awesome!

[@mikeg4490]

I think since Tekken established hype for the 2d characters they should continue crossovers with fighting games in general. Fighting games are niche and they should continue to support each other for a bright future. I always said Alex from Street Fighter should be in Tekken. A hard nose grappler hybrid with a charge mechanic still opens up the creative juices for the Tekken developers. 2d or "meter characters" shouldn't be limited to just shotos or ground wave users. Ryu Hayabusa from Ninja Gaiden and the DOA series offers some crazy visual appeal with his izuna drop and other gimmicks. A virtua fighter character is needed in Tekken. Tekken characters are cooler visually no doubt but VF characters are far more fleshed out as individual characters based on gameplay. Akira or Goh would be amazing to see. I think it's time Tekken pays respect to the grandfather of 3d fighters. Harada even said Goh was his favorite character in VF and would be more of a complete character if he developed him.

[@Scorpio7500]

Fox and Falco when tho

[@RinInABin]

he'll yeah let's go new zug video

[@JarlSwagDog]

This was a good watch. I do think 2Ds were probably one of the most badass things tekken has ever done. I do wish for tekken 8 to keep eliza while adding more 2D mechanics to her tool kit making her THE 2D Tekken character

[@paradiseb5950]

Why would you want a 2d character in a 3d game? Why not make her 3d like all the rest. There are plenty of 2d games out ther. It’s like saying lets have one 3d character in sf5 who can sidestep

[@Crazybark]

@@paradiseb5950 because she's unique, there's a tone of 2d games but not a tone of 3d games with 2d mechanics. If she were to play completely 3d she'd just be vampire kunimitsu. Also a street fighter character with a spotdodge/roll/Korean back dash to simulate 3d mobility would be sick dude

[@Kid_Makina]

@@paradiseb5950 and there are plenty of 3D characters in Tekken lol... its not a big deal to have 1 out of the whole cast that plays their own game. Makes her unique.

[@aoiminase]

Although, I don’t see one of any elements on Eliza as SFV female character where she couldn’t do tricks similar to cammy besides dive kick, she can’t even do cannon spike nor spiral arrow Eliza is a bit likely morrigan aensland from darkstalkers because some of her moves were similar, Halloween theme character which that caught my attention

[@superbro6413]

Dumb question from someone who does not play Akuma If he plays _like_ the source games he comes from, does he also have the _low life,_ like in those games too? If not, then they might be missing a core feature of how he was balanced historically. I feel like for the "2d" characters, you could scale faster normals, or jump starters too; their combo damage, meter gain, etc. Excellent video as always Zug, hope this year has been treating ya well.

[@nmiereemery5896]

That is what I think is missing

[@jebuscrust9875]

the worst part of marduk rock paper scissors is that the opponent cannot win and marduk cannot lose. like if you won rps but it only counted as a draw, while if you drawed the opponent it still counted as a loss for you.

[@easygoingdude9990]

Heyo Zug 🙂. The jumping didn't annoy me nearly as much as not having a reliable way to anti air them or float the jump and convert into combo

[@SuperAkouma]

Why do I always have to be the bad guy ? 😩😩😩 Fr tho nice video

[@ManavSandhu]

Just backdash out of those circumstances.

[@ehsun7822]

"i have never faced a good enough akuma to eat those damaging combos" Well yeah that's true .. online akumas suck and online warriors shouldn't really complain about 2ds tbh But me who plays in a pakistani arcade : *sad 3d noises* People here put so much time into akuma that they infact are good enough to do those combos.. and because they can do those combos they can punish the smallest mistakes with the most busted combos .. Akuma's difficulty is one sided .. as seen with poongko.. he was pretty much a scrub at tekken but because he could do combos he won multiple tournaments against Actual tekken players 2d Characters should be banned in competitive play in t7 .. and for t8 they should be toned down .. Eliza is the only one i think should be allowed because she isn't downright bullshit

[@mr.almezeini647]

"Online people bad". "Me good me pakistani me play top level". Shut the f*#k up dude. Everyone knows Akuma is broken with his jumping, oki, and 12 frame launchers.

[@nocandoslurms433]

Nice to hear from you again, Zug.

[@switchflipjones]

New Zug?!? PLEASE do more, make it for fun so its no pressure to monetize, do it for the people!

[@Doozalicious777]

Hey zug, cute dog at the end!

[@flyingfrogofdeath9616]

Babe, wake up. Zug posted a new video

[@Shlompskii]

Massive dub for this Massive Zug

[@alies-]

Your channel is criminaly underrated, great content! In my opinion, 2d can be really annoying sometimes, but it doesnt deserve that much hate, because devs did great work when implyed it into tekken. I mean look how weird was Tekken x Street fighter, where Tekken characters didnt feel Tekkenish at all. While Akuma in T7 straight up brings Street Fighter with him, same as Geese with KOF, devs definetly deserve some praise for that

[@Mokujinko]

I understand where you're coming from but personally I like Tekken because I don't have to deal with zoning and meter mechanics. I don't like those things. If I did, I'd play one of the many, many other games that give that option. I don't even play Claudio because managing Starburst feels like too much of a hassle. I'd rather they just leave all that stuff out of Tekken. A Hail Mary on low health is just fine because you know it's coming in one very specific circumstance per round. You're not sweating, holding your breath about cashing it in in the same way you would be building a meter over several rounds. I don't think I'm alone in this attitude either. People who want that sort of thing can find it in abundance elsewhere, along with their invincible dragon punches and other shenanigans. Your 'not Tekken' example being Marduk is a little disingenuous because plenty of people would say he doesn't 'play Tekken' either. Whataboutism doesn't pardon the 2Ds' problems just because other characters who also forego the 'Tekkeniest' aspects exist. And no one except Marduk players likes Marduk. Same for bears (and I say that as someone who loves bears).

[@deejaythedj313]

As much as I HATE 2D fighters in Tekken, I appreciate how much effort was put forward, because they really feel like a 2D fighter in a 3d world. Can’t really say the same for the other way around.

[@frankunodostres473]

what 2d game is eliza from?

[@ssick3402]

Cute doggo!!

[@BearP0lar]

I don’t like that Akoomer can mid crush by jumping :(

[@Fuckdooodle26]

long time no see

[@kircheisqwaza3939]

All's fine til they start jumping. Would be different if Tekken had the tools to deal with "2D" jumping

[@Crazybark]

They do, side stepping

[@darlingimscared]

If they're 2d character's remove their ability to kbd

[@Crazybark]

Yes actually. Worse movement in general

[@emildegas4213]

"Why do I love this characters"...? 🤨 We are off to a rough start there fella

[@S1neWav_]

people only hate 2d char because of balance. if akuma was bad they wouldn't hate him

[@aauukk1]

Yes an honest opinion, thanks. Soul calibur has done a similar thing when they added Hehachi and DJ in one of their games, I hope we see more of these ideas in the futur.

[@sebastienhahn_tk5171]

If every character had some sort of Anti Air mechanism to counter that broken Demon Flip,I wouldnt have a beef with 2Ds.They are fun and part of the evolution of Tekken.Bring em to tekken 8 with more counter stuffs for the legacies.

[@Ottrond]

Co-signed

[@paradiseb5950]

@@Ottrond it's not evolution of tekken, it's the mechanics from another game that sneaked their way into tekken gameplay we all loved for over 20 years, and now we have to deal with it.

[@nmiereemery5896]

@@paradiseb5950 I can’t tell if you’re trying to say you enjoy TEKKEN because it’s been the same for 20+ years or complaining about going in depth of something new. 2D bs aside, some people in this community don’t know what they’re talking about and just shake their heads with what the “greatest TEKKEN player alive” says.

[@naremynebola9479]

Just get rid of them death combos a Good idea is a good idea as long as it keeps the game fair After that it's a unfair game whit a good idea in it And we can't handle it

[@davidparry5310]

I more or less totally disagree, although my position has, I suppose, softened a little bit relative to what it used to be. I basically now see the 2D characters in T7 in much the same way that I think a lot of people view T4 and some of the ideas implemented therein. By that, I mean that I can appreciate the innovativeness of splicing together mechanics from multiple different fighting system in this way while still believing that, fundamentally, it's a horrible idea that (for me) doesn't work either aesthetically or in terms of gameplay. I hope that T7 is the last that we see of 2D characters in Tekken. That having been said, 2D characters are not what I dislike the most about T7. What I dislike the most about T7 (and the reason why I don't bother with T7 anymore) is its castrated movement, and the bent towards CQC and pitbull aggression. This, more than anything, is what I want to see changed in T8.

[@Demon_Aura]

's Akuma's demon flip with Hwoarang's df3 > 4 or f based on the situation, cuz that move switch the side and escape from his bullsh*t

[@jasonkennedy6844]

Thing is I am not a SF or KOF player so I couldn't care less that they represent well their games. There is not a consistent way to hit them when they jump (they can jump over jabs lol). Compare them to characters like Eddy or even Ling where they do break the game in some way but there is way to hit their stances or deal with their stuff for every character. That's the big difference. And on top of that the unreactable low or dick jab into combo speak for itself.

[@IAmEnormous]

Was ready to disagree, but after watching I 100% agree. I was never originally on the 2D character hate train, but dealing with 2D jumps is just so annoying even if the match is otherwise even, it just completely changes the feel of the game. It's why Eliza annoys me most even though she's the 'worst' of the 2Ds, her jump back is like Feng's back kenpo on steroids. Only thing I'd add: no invincible reversals. No, not even if they start later than frame 1, just don't do it.

[@paradiseb5950]

exactly, it changes the feel of the game and that sucks the most and should not be in tekken, people defending the 2d are people who just enjoy those kind of characers and mechanics and love winning like that in tekken, but we who play real tekken are left with a bad taste in mouth

[@devasangeethan7680]

I actually love the idea of 2d but the implementation sucks

[@NR-fx8tk]

2D characters were a bolt and welcome move to include in T7 but I don't want them to return. Tekken should be Tekken. If you want to play a 2D Fighter, play another game. There is already too much to adapt to in Tekken and 2D character's gameplay is not working with Tekken's rules