343 Devs Open Up About Controller vs. MKB - UNFAIR Advantage - Halo Infinite Guide

THE FASTEST WAY TO RANK UP, NOW AT 50% OFF:
► www.gameleap.c... - THE FAST WAY TO RANK UP
^ SIGN UP FOR ADVANCED COURSES ^
GameLeap Community DISCORD ► / discord
#gameleap #halo
/ formal
/ frosty
halo,halo infinite,halo infinite gameplay,halo infinite campaign,halo infinite guide,halo new leaks,halo infinite new,halo gameleap,halo ranked guide,halo infinite devs,halo dev news,halo dev,halo infinite dev update,halo infinite changes,343 dev halo infinite,343 devs in halo infinite,halo infinite controller settings,halo infinite controller guide,halo infinite mkb,halo infinite mkb vs controller,halo infinite controller vs mkb,343 devs

[@GameLeapHaloInfiniteGuides]

THE FASTEST WAY TO RANK UP, NOW AT 50% OFF: ► www.gameleap.com/GITGUD?c=cmpgn_w-xRa_pcp - THE FAST WAY TO RANK UP ^ SIGN UP FOR ADVANCED COURSES ^

[@pvtghost24]

First

[@CannonFire]

Me and my buddy were chasing onyx 1900. I’m controller he’s PC. Needless to say he stopped playing entirely because of the disparity between inputs and he went back to CSGO where he has logged 10,000 hours. He won’t be back until they fix it. I wish they would do something soon to bring back the PC crowd and make MNK viable.

[@muyoso]

@DeusVult1683 what are you even talking about? A pc player will put maneuver a controller player always. Pc players can flick aim and can do anything and everything a controller player can do.

[@adambarirde7559]

@DeusVult1683 you also still get AA the minute you plug in a controller my guy

[@muyoso]

@DeusVult1683 ooooook. Tell that to a controller player whose enemy just jumped over their head. They can read your entire comment by the time it takes them to turn around. For close quarters the PC is like god mode vs controller. Everything else controller has an inmate advantage. To claim that controller offers better movement is insane.

[@coreythebludragon1986]

Just tell him to plug in a controller? He's got a pc that's an option.

[@TruebornArmin]

They should just increse the bullet magnetism for MKB player till the accuracy stats are almost identical in my opinion. ahhh and the red redicle thing!!!

[@Vofyn]

EXACTLY.

[@WLF0X]

Bullet magentism and red reticle are the same thing on Infinite (supposedly)

[@TheTeodorsoldierabvb]

Buy a PC and play normally :D don't ask for advantages just cause you got a shitty controller

[@iitzMarcus]

I'm gonna be honest as a long time MKB player in most games I feel like there are competitive advantages when using a MKB, but whenever I play halo I can 100% feel how unbalanced it is as I climb ranks in competitive. As a person who is fairly skilled with MKB I find competitive in halo to be harder then other games even though I've been playing halo for as long as I can remember. 343 for the love of god fix your game.

[@neilhightower2270]

I just went and got a cheap wired controler lol

[@iitzMarcus]

@@neilhightower2270 see I would do that but I prefer to play games on MKB

[@nimahanna1709]

Lowkey this is an argument to keep it the same. If every game on the market has a pc advantage finally theres one thats not

[@iitzMarcus]

@@nimahanna1709 but their only hurting themselves from this. Since the release of halo infinite; player counts have gone down significantly. I'm all for a game being fair and there are multiple games where using a controller is better but when is comes to such a huge title like halo their only gonna destroy the last bit of loyal players they have

[@nimahanna1709]

@@iitzMarcus I think most loyal halo fans stem from controllers, the PC FPS market is far more competitive. This "unfairness" between platforms is an extremely small factor in the games decline in playerbase, you know theres sooooooooooo much wrong. I see no indication they wanna keep any players anyway so if theres anything you want changed about the game (besides nerfing melees), don't keep your hopes up.

[@scottydogg278]

"This is the first time they've admitted..." and four months later - the solo/duo mnk queue is completely dead and no further updates. You don't need to balance mnk if nobody is playing mnk *taps head

[@Accuaro]

Can you PLEASE do an update video on this. Halo: Infinite went from 6.2k avg players in your video, down to 3.6 avg players in the last 30 days. The game is haemorrhaging players, and NOTHING useful was ever done for MnK. It’s clear that people would rather not play, than to switch inputs. When will 343i do something? When there’s less than 1k avg players on Steam? It’s so bad man, 343i doesn’t give af. Please make a video update on acknowledging this. There’s even people making posts on it on the Halo sub, but it goes largely ignored as most of the community is controller based. They lack any empathy for different input.

[@ratoz8127]

It’s still the exact same, mnk is garbage and not viable, and Controller is getting all the love in the world from 343.

[@christopherrapczynski204]

They still havent done anything and I truly hope the absolute worst for everyone that works at 343. "Halo studios", give me a break, little rats trying to weasel out of their unbelievably negative reputation, while clearly being the same unfathomably inept studio.

[@nicholastamas1204]

red reticle is not just a mkb problem, its a pc as a whole platform. i play the entire mcc with mkb but infinite feels easier to control and play with a controller, not to mention the aim assist you get. red reticle would be a big difference just in learning what the optimum distance is for many weapons, especially the new ones that i dont have experience with.

[@nicholastamas1204]

and honestly switching between the two, i dont notice a big difference with aim assist, but i do notice it with bullet magnatism. i will completely miss shots with things like the shock rifle and they all land on the head. with mkb if im strafing at all and even if the reticle is on the head, half the shots will miss, so the only way to use it for a perfect would to be perfectly lined up with the head and moving in straight line towards the target. guns like sniper and skewer are a lot easier to use on mkb though

[@CrimsonCorona10]

I hate the aim assist on console. It makes me miss a lot of my pistol and shock rifle shots.

[@fanboiahoy260]

So they’re just trash

[@justinTime077]

@@CrimsonCorona10I turned aim assist off on pc cuz it kept fucking up what I was trying to do.. now it seems it was removed ? I dunno

[@Masami_Salami]

There is a ton of bullet gravity on controller, but it is non-existent on MKB.

[@tryharderpls]

Holy shit i know why the game sucks now 6:09 explains it all

[@Guoy]

Tiny adjustments and analyse the data, like you suggested. That's what 343 should do. Give M&K 1% extra bullet magnetism for 2 weeks. Analyse the data. Still too low? Make it 2%. Analyse the data. Still too low? Make it 3%. Et cetera. Gaming companies tend to do nothing at all, or too much. Wish they would just take tiny steps and analyse those steps. Also M&K should get red reticle. That's a no brainer. I'm a controller player btw.

[@JimmyJoeMcGurl]

Totally true on devs doing nothing or wayyy too much. Respawn does this with Apex. "Hmm the cool down on that ability seems a bit low.. let's increase it 133%"

[@ethanholshouser5648]

Red reticle has nothing to do with input method, PC controller players don't get it either.

[@Guoy]

@@ethanholshouser5648 oh, I didn't know that. Thanks!

[@m1erze]

Would just love to see all 3 of my bursts hit more consistently when I'm on target, that may just be enough to balance it. I played the new season open queue D5-Onyx lobby yesterday, shot 49% accuracy and lost nearly 90% of my engagements with solid strafing. It's so discouraging, spent so much time on the game and it feels like such a handicap.

[@vampahh1171]

I'll be honest with you, I don't think I've ever seen an FPS game where KBM isn't better than Controller, besides Halo. So let us just have this one okay. I've played COD competitively since it was only on console and using a keyboard was deemed as cheating. I play on PC with a PS4 controller btw, flame me.

[@bombastikon]

Bullshit!!! Crossplay is a complete mess! As long were not even able to play on similar framerates , this never should have been an option.

[@thegameison94]

It's got to the point where I'm using Halo Infinite as an Aim Trainer lol. The imbalance has actually made my mechanical skill so much better. Thank you 343 for making such an immersive Aim Trainer for MKB (:

[@PandemonicHypercube]

I do agree that good aim assist is absolutely vital for an FPS that's played on controller, but I don't feel that it's balanced right now. At least not for the Battle Rifle. I'm a pretty average player, but as someone with two decades of experience with both control methods, I can definitely feel a big advantage on controller in this game, vs mouse and keyboard. If I boot up training mode with the BR and try to get as many Perfect medals in a row, it's so much easier on controller it's not even funny. With weapons like the sniper rifle, there's definitely an advantage to mouse and keyboard for being able to make quick snapshots, but for BR it's a hell of a lot more difficult on mouse and keyboard right now. Obvious disclaimer, this is just my own personal experience, not claiming to be completely objective. Though for what it's worth I was extremely skeptical of the claims that mouse and keyboard is less effective than controller, until I tested it myself. I could live with the fact that controllers get quite aggressive aim attraction (reticle being pulled towards target), if we got just a touch more bullet magnetism for mouse and keyboard. I'm not sure if the current value for MKB is zero or just very weak, but right now it feels like even if you do your best to aim for the head on MKB, it's very inconsistent compared to controller

[@e_ighth]

@@PandemonicHypercube from my experience the sniper rifle is straight up easier/more consistent on controller, this 'quick snapshot' advantage is basically null as there is basically no point gambling for a quick snapshot on MKB.

[@e_ighth]

why is it a gamble? movement kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHetl357rslob7s

[@JimmyJoeMcGurl]

@@PandemonicHypercube interesting. How does the Commando fair would you say for M&K vs Controller? It feels pretty bad on controller imo vs the Battle Rifle, but I kind of wonder if it is the opposite for M&K. If so, it could be interesting if you could start with either BR or commando in ranked as they seem to be filling similar roles.

[@PandemonicHypercube]

@@e_ighth I've not put extensive time into playing the sniper rifle on controller in Infinite, as I moved back to PC for this generation, so I can't really say one way or the other. For what it's worth though, I can hit quick sniper shots on mouse and keyboard that there's absolutely no way I'd be able to hit in Halo 5 on controller.

[@HaloDaycare]

Just to try and keep up with aim assist I adopted a one hour a day aim training/kovaaks. I realized that one hour a day on mouse and keyboard training wasn't enough to keep up so I bumped it up to two. I quickly burned myself out and got frustrated, realizing that ill never be able to compete against controller players. Once I accepted this, I stopped playing. I don't want to go back to controller. I know a lot of people who normally use mouse and keyboard but use controller in Infinite for that aim assist but I wont do it. I'll just play something else until I somehow forget to remember that there is absolutely nothing I can do to even try and keep up with my controller counterparts🥲

[@matthewcalderon5797]

I just completed my PC build in January. With the console prices, I wanted something that I could do more with at that $ amount. I successfully transitioned to m&k with great improvement to personal gameplay in apex, cod, battlefield, but NOT halo. I still try to practice with m&k on halo, but the game makes me feel like I'll never be as good as I am with a controller.

[@JDMvids1105]

Halo is not a traditional shooter. It's a garbage shooter.

[@longshot5866]

Great post. I also recently built a PC. I've put countless hours into aim trainers to learn m&k. Switched to using my mouse left handed and got an azeron and learned that. It was difficult and expensive. Now I'm punished for me efforts.

[@vesselbros_]

In halo mnk is so much harder because halo is all about tracking, one of the hardest mnk skills that is just given to controller players with aim assist. I do think mnk players going pro is possible, just going to take time for mnk players to figure it out. Halo does belong on pc, and I have faith in my mnk brethren

[@aethylwulfeiii6502]

Halo is not just about aim, it’s also about combos. Grenade jump melee weapon switch. Equipment. Used in conjunction.

[@waverides]

343 killed their game catering to casuals. RIp HALO

[@adambarirde7559]

Listen, this exact issues is in every FPS but reverse. Every FPS that is crossplay gives MKB advantage. This is the one game controller had an advantage on and now its gonna go the other way.

[@adambarirde7559]

@@darkshadow6556 it actually is and isn't even really a debate

[@cuzzzzo8856]

HERES THE THING ABOUT THIS In other popular live service shooters (Apex, Warzone, Fornite,) The MnK vs Controller debate is exactly that. A debate. In Halo Infinite, and MCC, its not even close. Controller wins hands down. Anyone saying anything different have not played a Halo game on MnK.

[@ajackass5950]

You gotta be joking bro I can shred controller players, they can't turn around quick enough. I just point and shoot while they're trying to line up their cross hair, controller has a crazy disadvantage. Even if you feel differently I hope we can all agree that there needs to be an option to turn off cross play outside of ranked.

[@bakks8082]

@@ajackass5950 serious question; at what rank are you shredding controller players?

[@j1883311]

@@ajackass5950 sounds like you're playing against Recruit that stands still/don't move much we're talking about Spartan strafe machines here dude, that's where the problem is, try tracking manually a twitch jiggle strafer and you'll see why

[@cuzzzzo8856]

@@ajackass5950 On controller, in mid to close range strafe fights, software is making adjustments for you faster than human reaction times. SnipeDown has even come out and said it's not fair several times. He was even quoted saying "controller players are fucking delusional.",

[@CR0WYT]

There will never be a balance on a competitive level. If one peripheral is even 1% better, pros are going to flock to it since they'll need any fair advantage they can get.

[@Sonickart]

started gaylo infinite on kbm, where i've played with that input for about 3 years now. got hardstuck D6, switched to controller, that was my lifelong input on xbox years prior, the mere controller muscle memory and game sense was enough to put me in onyx. halo competitive is unplayable with KBM. Solution in MY opinion for mouse to be viable is is add a single shot DMR weapon to counter the BR (like the stalker rifle, but not as strong and as a default loadout), make the BR burst faster like it used to be in previous games, (most weapons in kbm are classified as flicking or tracking, the BR in this case is literally both because of its specific burst speed, flick to enemy and micro track throughout the burst, where controller aim assist helps get the full burst more often than a kbm player will micro adjust and predict the enemy movement in the right direction during the slow ass burst and often miss a shot or 2 of the burst), or add a small amount of bullet magnetism to kbm to mitigate some of those incomplete full bursts on kbm due to ridiculously impossibly low inaccuracy and punishment for not predicting the enemies movement the following nanosecond of the next burst shot that aim assist would otherwise compensate for. I'm exaggerating just to get my point across but point remains the same. Haven't played in months due to this AND the ranked and desync issues. game is in shambles. I want to love it, so bad, it has so much potential, but wtf are they doing

[@C0ld5h0t]

Takes balls to talk about Real issues. I want you to know i greatly appretiate this video. People think steam numbers dropped only because of lack of content and i think that many mnk players left because they dont want to take a game seriously if the game itself doesnt take them seriously. Many of my mnk friends whom i tried to get them to like halo have quit because of this. Its sad being in the receiving end of the imbalance. Controller needs a nerf or mnk needs a buff. I want both parties to be on equal footing. The biggest issue is that br is way too consistent on controller.

[@thelonewolf3515]

I am currently Platin 5 (before the patch platin 6) and I am doing pretty well on mnk. BUT I am dying so often because of this issues that it is really frustrating. It feels like (especially BR but also on the MA40) my bullets doesnt even hit the target at all sometimes... But I've got two friends (one PC mnk, one xbox) who playing with me and it's nice to play together. I hope they'll do something against the issues. Another thing are the bad servers. On ine game ping at 20ms on the next 130ms... But thats a different story

[@343RuinedHalo]

Aim Assist & Bullet magnetism has NO Place in competitive gaming. If you think otherwise you are WRONG and Delusional.

[@TheMsr47gaming]

Always said this, how could a game be competitive; when Aim bot is needed to HELP you play the game. No help in a comp games

[@Skweanky]

I appreciate you for bring this topic again, its a real struggle for us M&K players. I consider myself above average, done pretty well in every other FPS game but in Halo Infinite, the M&K input is straight up garbage compared to Controller. Makes me not want to play this game competitively, if ever.

[@johndavidson5792]

I get first place in team slayer every game on mouse and keyboard I think thus video is very wrong I've played halo since the beginning and I slaughter my own skill in halo mouse and keyboard and I was like top 300ish players jn halo 3

[@fimelsin5308]

@@johndavidson5792 a exception is not the rule get over yourself.... and I will just call lies out right b/c plz the match making it self would make sure that never happens so I can smell the bull from here on facts alone your story don't add up then you have zero links to even back such a statement...

[@GIacius]

@@johndavidson5792 >no videos on channel. sure.

[@LOTW1]

I've been saying that since the beginning. I've been posting on 343's and Halo Infinite Twitter and Instagram about this telling them that they need to give the players the ability to turn off crossplay only to be met with ridicule from the Halo community. Now turning off crossplay is useless because the PC community just quit. It will only cause longet matchmaking wait times. I'm happy to see that I was not crazy and I did well by stop playing Halo Infinite.

[@NotSamSage]

As a controller/console player for over 20 years I've noticed this ridiculous elitism from the PC side of things. Denying the mechanical advantage of M&K and instead telling controller players to "git gud". The first time M&K players haven't been able to dominate controller players and now they are all crying about it. So, my advice is "git gud"

[@kayshell66]

Any kbm player that denies the mechanical advantage of kbm is delusional. FPS games were kbm games from the very beginning. Of COURSE kbm is going to be better to aim with and have a much higher skill ceiling since we're not limited to 2 plastic sticks and our thumbs. The best controller player in the world using only raw skill (meaning no aim assist) would have a TERRIBLE time against a dime-a-dozen average kbm player. Take that controller "pro" and put them against a kbm pro and they probably wouldn't get 2 kills lol. The problem is that the genre of FPS has become a massive money grab. Consoles became powerful enough to sort of run fps games decently and businesses like money so they released them and even MADE some fps games (like Halo) FOR console to appeal to a wider audience and get more sales by not ignoring a massive market. Cross play was basically the same idea. Now people who may have never bought the game because they wouldn't have anyone to play with can hop on with friends on other platforms and play together, but the devs had to do SOMETHING to make up for the inadequacies of controller and they just went too far in this game. Controller players are used to "hand holding" since aim assist is an industry standard at this point even at the "pro" level, so they can't take it away. KBM is literally all about raw skill and being the best player in the world, (not the best *aim assist* user in the world) so they can't add aim assist or bullet mag to kbm without massive backlash. The devs are literally stuck right now. Halo isn't the first game where KBM isn't dominant (though it should ALWAYS be dominant because it's better than controller). This aim assist debate has been raging for over a decade. This is just the first time where devs actively and intentionally gimped kbm while also doing everything besides straight up giving controller players aim bot so the controller players feel like they're good at the game (even though we all know no controller player is ACTUALLY good of course because their input is so bad it REQUIRES a soft aim bot). For anyone who is still reading this, this comment is bait. I'm a kbm player but my duo is controller and I love you guys. Can't wait for the hate replies I get 😂 kbm players in general need to stop crying and just get better. My overall accuracy is 54% btw, so if you're on kbm and you shoot worse than that, just know it's possible to be better. Yes, you'll have to work harder to shoot that percentage than a controller player, but either put in the work or stop playing the game until they nerf aa. Stay up brothers.

[@OmegaF77]

Try getting off of Reddit and Twitter. The PC "elitists" only seem to exist there.

[@colbyboucher6391]

I can't fucking comprehend how this is the conclusion you came to. If there were ever elitism in the PC community, it'd be "M/KB is just better" which is just true. I've literally never seen someone claim that people using controllers should "just get better" in the ten years I've been stomping around on PC (or the five-ish years crossplay has been common for).

[@NotSamSage]

@@colbyboucher6391 I have. Imagine that, different people have different experiences. Insane idea

[@colbyboucher6391]

@@NotSamSage Have fun with your mostly dead game

[@jakflak3767]

Why not give mnk aim assist? Just enough to even it out and make top tier mnk players and top tier controller have equal accuracy

[@Evilbob1555]

How to improve the balance between inputs (not rank ordered): 1. Remove the negative aim assist that happens when the sniper is not scoped in, which is exclusive to KBM. 2. Give back red reticle to PC, super important as it tells players when their shots will land and have full bullet magnetism. Deal with cheaters in a more sophisticated way that doesn't punish regular players. 3. Be more transparent on the values of aim assist and bullet magnetism for each input. Most KBM players don't believe the bullet magnetism values are the same. Want to really gain their trust? Show them the real values. If bullet magnetism is lower on KBM, make it match controller.

[@TheAnalgetikum]

The game is so frustrating to play on MKB. AA for controller is so strong . if the guy is half decent on Controller u still have no chance.

[@TomMorello725]

The key is reducing (balance) rotational AA. It is a competitive game, the rewards must go to the skilled teams/players (skill as a whole concept, not a gun skill only). To me, reducing the exigence to mnk with more bullet magnetism does not make sense, that is not the problem. Every competitive FPS has a skill gap. There is a lot of skill gap for us (mnk players) on Halo Infinite, it is not an "easy" shooter, the ttk is amazing and all the mechanics. It is "hard" at some point and that's good, *the problem is not the difficulty for us to face the skill gap*, the problem is that there are players that avoid it *partially* with a plug-and-play concept. That cannot be on a competitive game where 343 wants a healthy mnk community. So: 1. Reduce gradually Rotational AA (weekly or monthly), then analyze data to find the "equilibrium". We do not want to "kill" or affect the controller community. 2. Reduce granade magnetism. The "throw and kill" is much. I like the idea of it is existence because, I think, it prevents campers but there are situations where it is much. IDK. 3. The AA stickiness is not a problem, I think it is balanced but maybe it is gonna be required adjustments (maybe a slight buff?) with the rotational AA nerf. 4. Eliminate bloom. Do not fear to exigence more to controller players, it is a competitive shooter. Do you want to compete and rank? You must show you are good and better than the others. Did you lose? Get better. That's how it has been working for us our entire life on FPS. It is normal. If they create more skill on controller players it is a big benefit too. In my ideal: Crossplay = balance

[@meeks2375]

lol idk what everyone is talking about i use controller and the aim assist feels like shit in my opinion i can go to halo mcc and play just fine. when i get to this abominable halo game i cant even snap my crossairs to the enemy and keep them there i always end up moving to far to the left or right it feels like its working against me most of the time. am i the only one who feels this way?

[@tristenwilliams558]

If you play on keyboard and mouse and your onyx your a pro but if your controller your meh

[@butterzzz13]

If you truly think controller deserves to be the dominate input then the game should have never come to PC. M&KB doesn't have an "unfair" advantage, it's just a better imput. What's unfair is handicapping M&KB to drag us down to being worse than a controllers simply because of Halo's "roots". I grew up playing H2, H3, HR, on console, but made the switch to PC later in life. I have literaly thousands of hours in Halo on console, but PC is just better, it's not our faults. It's truly fucked up to actively ruin M&KB players experience just to keep some "tradition". If that's the case it should have never came to PC, and I'm gald the game is dying. It's a shit quarter baked alpha of a game we were supposed to get, but never will.

[@chancewindham1718]

Someone is butthurt. I play both mnk and controller and I don’t feel such a huge difference. I got to diamond with both modes of input.

[@chancewindham1718]

@@darkshadow6556 I don’t know if you realize it but you are literally arguing my point for me. If MnK is so much harder on Halo and I managed to match my stats on it to the stats I have on controller than by your own logic that would mean I am good with MnK. I guarantee I’m better than you with both modes of input. MnK has inherent advantages over controller and that’s not an opinion it’s just fact. As someone who uses both I can say it is possible to be competitive in halo using MnK and if you aren’t good enough with it than stop bitching and use a controller or just don’t play the game. It’s like the one game where MnK doesn’t completely dominate and all the PC elitists want to cry about it. If I can get close to Onyx with it, that hardly means I’m not good with it. Make it make sense dude.

[@irvangb94]

To fix this they just need to give us a option to play against only same platform

[@MatafiedGaming]

Controller gang! But I’m down for a more balanced approach for sure. We all deserve to be demons.

[@joseycarlson3564]

As a console player that loves to co-op campaign with my wife on the couch split screen style (we even play ranked together now and love it) but it feels like 343 is going out of their way to make this a PC game and we don't play much anymore cuz we still can't split screen campaign. Why 343? PC players aren't even gonna use this so don't worry about this feature for them

[@bakks8082]

My two points I’d like to see changed (as a PC player using a controller) - take away anti aim assist while no scoping with the sniper - ever so slightly increase bullet magnetism on KBM (2-5%) and see how accuracy fares across inputs IMO, this would even the field quite a bit. You could have a KBM player be a god with sniper and the increase in magnetism would even out BR duels a tad.

[@iBishopEsquire]

I thik a lot of console players wouldn't mind haveing the autoaim lower a little bit as a controller player myself.

[@apolloxrc3863]

I like this comment 🔥 pretty much the best way to go about it I agree.

[@JL4RG]

well put! this is all that needs to be done.

[@deviousxen]

ANTI aim assist?

[@ryuseioh3507]

the sniper is such a minute part of infinite it has 8 rounds total as well as random bloom when no scoping. it's also only in live fire a single map in the ranked scene.

[@ASSASSIN_MW3_420]

I play with the controller in my left hand and a mouse in my right

[@iNeedHugsNow]

I know how to balance it. Keep everything the same for controller users but remove all RNG from every gun for PC users. Just look at how Splitgate's shooting works, it's fun and fair for both controller users and mkb users.

[@nolaz010]

Removing bullet spread would be a match made in heaven for the controller magnetism debate.

[@AustinSamuelF]

Controller turn speed is slow af. I literally get killed multiple times a game because I couldn’t turn around fast enough on controller. This needs to be addressed first to bring controller and m&k closer together.

[@TheEliteHeat]

I feel this POV is pandering more to your own previous investment of your time and skill development rather then adjusting your other skills when it comes to the game. You've advanced your MnK skills to a high level for other games, but whats stopping you from doing that with a controller if it's stronger in this game?

[@jarde1989]

As someone that plays both controller and M&K… Being able to do a 180 fast af and click a mouse button fast af is a massive advantage over controller… it’s ain’t even close chief Not to mention hacking in basically 100% a PC issue

[@oyunboldboldbaatar5519]

What does this have to do with this video?

[@Snipurdoodle]

The aim assist on an unscoped sniper is insane, as a mkb player its absurd that people think this is balanced.

[@Snipurdoodle]

People liking my comment in agreement when an unscoped sniper doesnt have aim assist in infinite. Got emmmmmm.

[@Snipurdoodle]

@DeusVult1683 Theres nothing vague about me stating that an unscoped sniper has aim assist. What ever is unclear to you about that i can't help you im sorry.

[@Snipurdoodle]

@DeusVult1683 I lack the credentials to help you any further.

[@mightynein]

@DeusVult1683 hes sayin the aim assist is insane is pretty obvious he means its op and im pretty sure anti aim assist isnt even confirmed

[@aje4272]

I average 50 to 55% on MKB. Right now I’m only a few games away from Onyx. I can’t keep to get over the hurdle because players are averaging +60% accuracy.

[@scoobynicker]

I would love if they added a little aim assist or bullet magnetism for mnk. I grew up playing with a controller just like all the other halo players did, but I haven't used a controller for like 5 years and I'm awful with them now and they just feel wrong to me.

[@scoobynicker]

When playing games like Splitgate, I compete against controller players in ranked just fine. I'm not sure what, but 343 messed something up on the balancing here.

[@colbyboucher6391]

@@scoobynicker The difference with Splitgate is that everyone dies so quickly, all you need to do is snap to heads and click. You don't really need to worry about tracking 90% of the time and even when you do, strafing isn't nearly as crazy as it is in Infinite.

[@scoobynicker]

@@colbyboucher6391 I don't know, splitgate doesn't feel that different to me but maybe I'm wrong

[@805akc]

Keeping up with content like this is more satiating than actually playing at the moment...

[@jlb4685]

I don’t care about aim assist. I just want M&k to feel GOOD! I have 120+ FPS and the game still feels choppy and weird.

[@lordxboss5700]

So it sounds like MnK needs to feel better at Mid-Short range then Controller can be tweaked for easier longer range 🤷‍♂️

[@DarthChicanery]

I would STILL come back if they fixed this problem but it sounds like they would literally rather have a dead game than let mouse and keyboard users enjoy it.

[@shinjitsu6180]

I mean, look at apex, you can be a really good controller player, but not as good as m&k, a lot of people complain about aim assist there, but the reality is that m&k players can move more efficiently, loot faster and beam people across the map with a flatline...giving m&k the same benefits of controller on halo, would be too much, but ye, a good idea would be to introduce aim assist, but not as strong as the controller aim assit and see how things go and then try to further tweek it

[@shockwave.9749]

Kb+m all day 😎

[@ajackass5950]

Rip performance

[@shockwave.9749]

@@ajackass5950 not really. I'm generally in the 35-45% accuracy range. And if you have to take advantage of aim assist to play the game, sorry, but your not performing either.

[@williaamlarsson]

I still play once or twice per week and I'm on M/KB. But yes I often feel disadvantaged, especially when facing players that know how to strafe and move properly

[@sandrapraimraj910]

Fr im a mnk player and I feel like I never win fights against controller players that know how to strafe properly

[@cocopuffz604]

Any updates on this? It's been a few months and the Winter update is coming. Anything in the update for us MnK players?

[@aethylwulfeiii6502]

I play with both, and I go for more up and close combos with the controller. But on mouse and keyboard I try to stay back and out aim.

[@chrissoitiz]

I'm d5 was recently in d6 on crossplay with mkb and even though I do hit 30/40 kills they're always when I have good games with the power weapons I literally run constantly from br fights because its just impossible to 1v1 someone with a controller plus I'm always prefiring I always have 500+ shots fired more than anyone else and a lot lower accuracy also I find that beatdowns are just non existent sometimes you hear the noise but it does nothing it's like the controller has faster beatdown and I literally have to be standing on their fcking toes all In all I love playing halo on mkb but like you said its just not a viable option when you start coming up against any decent controller players which is a real shame to be honest

[@chazzz98]

Just wanna put out there that controller on pc also does not have a red reticule on enemies either. And there are still us controller players on pc that love halo but don’t want to buy a xbox so we are thankful it’s on pc.

[@Numskul_YT]

im one of these but tbh iv got used to no red reticule and prefer it now lol we still have it on tracking weapons like plasma pistol or needler and theyre the only ones you really need it on in my opinion, i find it distracting to have it on my br now especially that if you change the colour of the enemies the reticule turns whatever colour you changed the enemies to.

[@chazzz98]

Didn’t realize it changed the reticule color with the color of the enemy. That is weird but I do think the color is nice to have when quick scoping with the sniper otherwise I don’t find it much of a change.

[@chazzz98]

There has always been some glitches with AA if you touch your mouse of keyboard during a game. This is still the case. But if you don’t touch either during a game you should have AA. To be cautious about it I try to only use my controller in the menus outside of the game as well

[@Numskul_YT]

@@chazzz98 yh it would be good to have red reticule on the sniper actually and maybe the stalker but other then that I don't mind to much, yh up is odd how u it changes the reticule with enemy

[@ToxicTerrance]

I'm a little jaded because my first experience with this argument is in Apex Legends. MKB is basically broken in Apex, they can move so much more fluid and smooth than controller players can, even the top controller players don't bother to learn or memorize advanced movement because of how hard some of it is to consistently pull off. And they still complain that we have aim assist, so I just don't wanna hear it anymore. People don't want balance, they want the advantage. To put it plainly, if you complain about other inputs, you're just being a sore loser.. lol

[@fardrives]

7:14 this idea is actually genius? Let's face it, MK & Controller will never be perfectly balanced in any FPS, but creating an even amount of roles where each different type is specifically better at would be the only true way to balance this infamous dilemma. Apex has this same issue where controller aim assist is very close to cheating and Overwatch controller aim assist is the opposite where there is zero and in turn MK has a very clear advantage. I'm not sure how you would create a gun that could implement this though, i'd love to hear someone else's idea! For context so i'm not assumed a casual/non competitive player(there's nothing wrong with being one), i'm no pro though; I'm about to hit Onyx on MK after playing this game for less than a few times, i'm a high masters player in OW/Apex for a handful of years.

[@d4nny912]

i always just pick up a heatwave/shotgun they are pretty easy to aim imo on mkb but ofc this isnt gonna get me very far but its helpful

[@Haiburidu]

I will die on my hill while using MnK. I grew up on Controller. And it rocks, but I have adopted and adapted MnK for so long I cannot see myself moving back.

[@danrothman6129]

I just dropped this joke of a game when my matches started consisting with the majority of the players milking out as much rotational aim assist as they can. So these players now were just tap dancing left, right, back and forth as they getting god tracking from it while I have to play extra hard just to keep up. The devs having such a biased mechanic for controllers took away the enjoyment for the MnK player base. The soul value of gaming is the fun factor, imagine having that ruined by turning it into a sweaty, aim assist abusing, competitive controller platform. I cant play fps on controller especially with aim assist, it gives me nausea when I'm not in full control of my movements.

[@ryuseioh3507]

anything past mid diamond and you're gonna struggle no matter how good you are at keyboard and mouse lol. in halo 3 mcc I could work around aim assist and could at least keep up in the ranked scene. in infinite not one bit lol.

[@AyyyyUhhhh]

The aim assist pulling to the head is crazy, in counter strike I can pretty easily take a fight against two people and have a good chance at winning where on halo I have to have perfect positioning and movement and aim in order to have a chance against two casual controller players. The amount of work and effort that goes into beating casual controller players is rough. I think they should dial back the assist and let people miss shots. It’s ok to be silver lol. Mind you I started my gaming on Xbox with halo and call of duty doing trick shots so I’m aware of what it takes to become good on controller. But I switched to pc and love MnK. It’s hard to be fluid on mnk just as it is controller. It’s not easy to instantly pick up mnk and have fluid movement and nice flicks it takes thousands of hours on both to do so. But it shouldn’t be this punishing to kill someone who most of the fight doesn’t have the crosshair even on the target

[@CreateNowSleepLater]

Don't think you get their priority. They expanded the base to sell more shaders, not to add to competition.

[@user_Z-]

I don’t see the huge issue. I know mouse and keyboard players that are still good af. If they boost m&k it’ll ruin the game for the majority of people

[@chrissalvadori6423]

My opinion is that you have to split the p.c and console users up…p.c controller smacks console controller and mnk.console players are getting the shit end of this on every level.if you make it opt in on cross play then I think it’s going to go a long way with console fans of the franchise.

[@JL4RG]

MKB Players should get red reticle! Aimbots and wall hacks are happening regardless. Seems unfair that pc does not get what is an accessibility feature, cause Timmy knows how auto clickers work. Well seems like 343 needs an anti cheat not to shit on PC players if your going for "Universal appeal" Also bullet magnetism should be bumped to bring MKB up to controllers, not looking for controller level just make them even. I can't hip fire across the map and pray the bullets find they way as controller with br's can.

[@metalking21]

I think its refreshing for controller players to have a game that they can dominate, mnk is favorable on every other fps.

[@GAB-vq7re]

Uuuuuuuhhhhgreed......100%

[@TheErlend87]

They only dominante because of aim assist, so it does not count at all

[@justinkidder6872]

Only twitchy shooters like COD or CSGO. One of the hardest skills to master is tracking, so long ttk games are dramatically harder on MnK then controller

[@milojong]

Playing fps on controller is a meme

[@notchocheese-ce7ue]

FACTS

[@acllhes]

Imagine how the people on xbone feel. It’s unplayable. It honestly shouldn’t even be available for Xbone. They definitely chose making money over making a good product there. Which probably says a lot so.

[@acoustic_sh33p49]

M&K in halo infinite is just miserable. When I take time to get good at aim in CS, R6, and Val and I go into Halo just to be destroyed by 3 year olds feels terrible. I've already given up on this game. The only thing thats going to get me back will be campaign coop and forge. In other words... wait another year for the game to *actually* come out.

[@BadBad3n]

I am now a M&K player as I made the switch from Xbox back in 2017 and after getting to the top 2% in ranked on Infinite I felt I could no longer out aim most people and was struggling to see how. My reticule at times seemed to be perfectly placed and I’d just lose the fight. To be fair I think desync was most likely also an issue too though

[@christopherrapczynski204]

The fact this still hasnt been addressed shows that this company is completely doomed

[@zacharynapoleon4428]

As a primarily K&M player I'm really frustrated with the current state of aim-assist. Also, my wrists get sore when using a controller so that's not really an option for me.

[@coreythebludragon1986]

They shouldn't change anything, this should be the game where m&k isn't viable, this is the one game I can play crossplay and not be instantly cross mapped by three dudes with a sniper and go to then shotgun them and have them pull an instant 180 and headshot me. Pc audiences should be excluded, controller players are excluded everywhere else

[@averypodgorenko]

343 have completely misshandled halo. I agree with what you've said but I don't think mouse/key matters anymore. I really doubt many PC players will come back to this broken mess of a game

[@ChiefSon1c]

It’s frustrating that halo fans and content creators have to hold 343’s hand to fix the game. When this game feels like I’m actively trying to change every aspect of it, to make the game like an actual halo game, ..it feels like work. Why was it launched in this state? They obviously knew this was unacceptable. I’m almost done honestly. I haven’t played infinite in weeks lol

[@feijoatree]

I'm a console KBM player, can't use controller for shooters anymore and this video rings so true in crossplay. Can't win duels against a strafe spam and aim assist controller. Would play solo/duo KBM more but it's like nobody plays that mode, tried queueing in and I'd be lucky to get 1 match out of 10 attempts. The last match I teamed with french players and had crazy ping (Australia btw). KBM solo/duo needs some priority I think or get rid of it if no one's playing so I can just focus on crossplay.

[@ChizAndStuff]

Moving Halo to pc was to help increase the player base and bring in a new audience (MnK players) yes.. but it was also due to bring competitive Halo back into the mainstream. Being on PC allows for better performance and flexibility which EVERY esport nowadays takes advantage of. That’s why you don’t see LANs using consoles like back in the day, there’s no doubt that PCs can out perform consoles any day with the right hardware. That being said Halo is not like Warzone, Apex, Fortnite etc. Halo is an arena shooter in a day and age of BRs that have broken gun builds, abused mechanics (mainly ONLY able to be used to MnK players), and crazy building etc etc. and has been around longer than most esport players today have been alive lmao. IMO MnK players have had a big advantage in recent years during the rise of PC gaming / cross-play and in the large majority of competitive games. I don’t see a way MnK players get a buff without it some how being abused and/or broken. I play both MnK and Controller depending on the game.. just let the controller have this one even if there is no debate on which input is superior. MnK reigns supreme in nearly every other game with the exception of a VERY small percentage of controller players. If it really bothers you so much learn to play on controller, play ranked MnK, or unranked where it doesn’t matter.

[@Ronald-vz6pl]

Think on warzone lot of top pros use controller. Some stomp in both and prefer controller for tourneys.

[@ChizAndStuff]

@@Ronald-vz6pl I don’t doubt it but up until the last 5 or 6 years most pros today in CoD grew up playing on console (similar to halo) that I’m aware of so controller was already their preferred choice. You rarely ever hear about someone starting on MnK/PC

[@cwise610]

Why should teams handicap themselves to appeal to KBM players? This isn't race or gender we're talking about. It's an easily accessible input device lol

[@yorkshire_tea_innit8097]

I find it very frustrating to play against mouse and keyboard players because a lot of outskill strategies just don't work, but I can understand how they feel in those midrange br fights. That being said, mouse and keyboard players should have their creature comforts that they are used to in other games. I would like to have icons so you know which input people are using too. Never try to ninja a m&k player for example.

[@e_ighth]

OH and also balancing such a fantastic casual experience around pro play is not good, if your aim is to get more pro players who play MKB then that will come naturally as you fix discrepancies. since NATURALLY when the playing field is levelled out a bit more you're giving more players the opportunity to rise to the occation. In my opinion, as of right now I don't see a way in which you could directly "buff" MKB input method so when limited to just the input methods something about controllers would have to change. When we strart talking about weapon balance then stuff like bloom comes into play since MKB doesn't have bullet magnetism. but hey i'd rather people just check this video out on aim assist and its discusses the differences --> kzbin.info/www/bejne/paGtko2dpbatqLc

[@delgonsire]

This is just personal opinion. I think it’s about utilizing the advantages of whatever you choose to use. I switched to controller after a while on keyboard just cause years of lifting makes it hard to leave my wrists on keyboard for a long time. So I have experience in both. I think the accuracy of controller is really strong, and could maybe be turned down a bit. But on the flip side, the aim and movement on keyboard is also really strong. I play consistently with 2 friends, both of which play mouse and keyboard, when we play tactical slayer, they will frequently perform better, despite me being a better player and having aim assist. Also just when we mess around with weapon drills, they both blow me away when it comes to sniper drills. My friend after like 3 rounds scored 30,000 on the shock rifle drill and I was struggling to hit 25,000 I also find myself dying constantly because my movement is so slow compared to mouse and keyboard. Like when a guy drops down from a above or I get shot in the back and turn around to fight. I always think “man if I was on mouse and keyboard, I could have turned much faster and killed those guys. I’m also curious about the statistics for accuracy. It’s my understanding that the console players vastly outnumber the keyboard and mouse players. So is it possible that this could caused the statistics to not entirely accurate in some way? For the record I play with controller on pc, so I don’t know how that works. Do I still get aim assist ? Or do I not? I just assume I did. I also don’t ever recall having the red reticle.

[@terryb6921]

these people on controller have been playing halo for 20 years and mnk is just now really coming to the scene its gonna take them a little to catch up i feel like i mean you really cant expect the average mnk player to comeout of the gate and be dominate in a game that has been played on controller for 20 years im sure in there will be mnk players make it to the top before long

[@justinTime077]

I play on pc, was happy to stop buying Xbox just to play halo, but I still use a controller because I played halo since day 1 with a controller. I try using mouse and keyboard because I’m competent with it, but this game has a lot of unique capabilities and movement oriented possibilities that are way more fluid with controller. You can’t do the same things with a keyboard no matter what imo.

[@T6V3R1C]

Honestly I don't believe there is much that can be done about this issue. The game was designed from the ground up to benefit controller players. The player movement is too fast, therefore there needs to be an aggressive aim assist and bullet magnetism for controllers otherwise the game would be too frustrating to play. Bloom also being introduced with the sniper rifle, as well yaw values being different vs the MCC and mouse sensitivity values allowing only one decimal place of adjustment. It's hard not believe that there wasn't a conscious decision to cripple MNK in order to encourage controller play. With that said, it makes sense. How bad would it look to have an Xbox game being dominated by MNK players? I get it.

[@oOignignoktOo1]

not like they can't enable kb/m on the xbox they have done it with other games. Microsoft just wants to shill overpriced controllers so you can be on an even level playing field with other players.

[@WoodstarForges]

95% of pc playets still use controller anyway. They put it on pc for a wider audience not necessarily for mouse and keyboard. Even other games 90% of pc players use controller.

[@WoodstarForges]

@@darkshadow6556 it's not wrong

[@TheMythologick]

The benefit is I don’t have to buy a shitty Xbox console to play halo now, which I have missed since halo reach on 360 after my 3rd Xbox broke and I told Microsoft to pound sand when I canceled my Xbox live and told them I’d never buy another console. All I had to do was buy a 40 dollar power A controller. Kbm feels awful to play halo on, but I can see some areas where it excels over controller.

[@azzythechristianfurry]

Recently got controller specifically to use for MCC and Infinite. It feels like an aimbot. Especially with close-mid range weapons. Pistol, shock rifle, and snipers are the only “issue weapons” compared to PC, and that’s because they don’t “stick” the same way.

[@aethylwulfeiii6502]

I have played both and can’t get even get the shock rifle to work on controller but is one of my best on mouse and keyboard. Go figure.

[@azzythechristianfurry]

@@aethylwulfeiii6502 Imo- General purpose, use controller High power precision weapons (snipers, shock rifles, Skewers, and that Banished sniper), KBM

[@airwavesxx]

lowering the aim assist would create a wider skill gap within the controller players. the pros would not care thwy hit shots anyway ao it at least qould give mnk a little chance to compete. not a fan of the idea to change it so it is easier for mnk to play a certain role because then you stuck there and not participate in the way the game should be (like close/mid range BR fights - which you have to avoid without a controller) I dont think mnk want to be equal knowing where halo comes from but at least do not alianate a whole player base.

[@karstenh3381]

Just to be clear, the part of the video where you say “controller players might think this is a good thing but it’s not” is subjective. You are looking at it from the point of view of someone who ever did want Halo to come to PC, the people saying they are happy about the imbalance are the people who only ever wanted Halo and it’s competitive scene to be on Xbox and Controller. The argument if “well you are hurt by this too because they did include PC” isn’t true to everyone. There are a large number of console players who I guarantee you hope the state of things stays so awful for PC players that the game essentially is Console only until the end of time. I personally don’t care much and think slight reworks could be useful but if they fuck up and give PC too much it could be what puts the final nail in the coffin of this game. Look at the current player base as you say, it’s all console players. What happens when they “balance” this game so that PC has the clear advantage like they do in almost every other cross platform shooter and Console players start leaving in droves because they don’t feel like their effort is being properly rewarded. All the sudden the player base is non existent if they aren’t super careful about it. Just some food for thought.

[@brandongrotha7508]

Since the BR is the starting weapon in ranked, just buff its bullet magnetism on MnK or give us red reticle and let controller players just have their sidekick accuracy.

[@nastytechniquez9685]

Ohhh how the tables having turned

[@dylanholland3687]

I’m mnk on console. I’ve played halo on controller for years. I’ve only played mouse and keyboard for 2-3 compared to controller like 18 that being said aim assist needs to be balanced. You can get a perfect on mouse and it say you didn’t get a perfect I think it’s just that you can get puuuuurfects left and right on controller mouse it’s rare especially with a really fast strafe aim assist is going to just be a handicap

[@wolfazassin803]

There's like what? 3 eSports that are FPS that use controllers. Everything else is all MNK. Yeah no I don't really want MNK on the competitive stage. I know it's an unpopular opinion but that's how I feel.

[@WanderDMC]

Controller is supported and just as good or better in Apex, CoD, Fortnite, and Halo. That's 4 games. The only games I can think of that favor mnk are CS, Valorant, Quake, Siege, and Overwatch which I'm not 100% certain is dominated by mnk. I'm probably missing a couple of games for both, but the point being that there's really not that many games that don't support controller. Especially when you consider that 3 of those games aren't even on console or even have proper controller support. So being petty over people just wanting to enjoy the game on an even playing field makes no sense for that reasoning alone

[@JimmyJoeMcGurl]

Have we seen a pro team try three controllers, one MnK?? Maybe it would be effective right now as is... Also, how does MnK do at Big Team Battle? I imagine the results might be better for them with the longer sightlines of BTB

[@Ronald-vz6pl]

Yeah longer sight lines do help. But have to be scoped. Sort of long, when reticle is around enemy, sometimes nothing registers, no magentism it seems. Like when the reticle is too big, if that makes sense.

[@JimmyJoeMcGurl]

@@Ronald-vz6pl yeah that makes sense. So would you say, if the target is far away and you are not scoped in but the target is centered in the reticle, more shots will hit if playing on controller?

[@Ronald-vz6pl]

@@JimmyJoeMcGurl 100%, ive tested myself, just plugged in my old xbox controller. Thats why close combat is so hard. Controller has two bursts, with reticle somewhat on target and both bursts hit full, melee and done. If I miss ever so slightly, 1 out of the 6 bullets from the 2 bursts miss, melee and he still lives. Not complaining, just seems a bit too skewed

[@JimmyJoeMcGurl]

@@Ronald-vz6pl yeah that doesn't seem fair. I've always been a controller player, and I want to be able to be competitive in other FPS, and I think that m&k should be able to compete in Halo.

[@numenthehuman]

PC, but I still use a controller. I get where this is coming from I really do, but to say that it shouldn't be on pc because MKB isn't treated properly ignores the fact that pc gaming makes up a significant market share.

[@j1883311]

MkB PC IS the main fps player base, controller PC are the minority here Just give MkB a 5% or so buff to bullet magnetism then we'll be in a better place

[@feijoatree]

It's hard to find balance when this is a controller based game. I watch PC streamers with Controllers that are incredibly OP but I still feel nerfing the controller isn't the answer. I'm a KBM player btw. Perhaps dropping the precision meta and making the BR less hitscan. That way mid to long range engagements with the BR would be less accurate. It'll still favour controller but they'll kill less and KBM still has the better movement to get closer.

[@iroekyjHD]

6:06 .. those aren't devs those are white women with colored hair

[@teambattleground9076]

I moved back to actual PC shooters and my gaming time has been less frustrating. No desync or aim assist crutching anymore.

[@NotKelloggsCornflakes]

Controller aiming feels off and has since this game released. 343 need to go back to the drawing board for both inputs. On controller it straight up feels like aim assist is aiming my reticle AROUND an enemy, that is only when aim assist decides to work at all. Conversely the bullet magnetism is insanely over generous.

[@MrCougar1825]

after a year 343 has made it even worse by taken out BR now M&K is almost 100 percent dead now even if ur hitting shots it wont even hit them you can hear ur gun go off and on there head when there 1 shot then right after you die lmao ur able to shot and aim faster then the game seems to be letting you