.357 Magnum Penetration- Xtreme Penetrator VS Hard Cast

[@mikg7029]

I emailed Underwood and asked them their testing barrel lengths. Here they are: 7” - 45 long colt 5” - 45 acp 4” - 9mm 6” - 357 mag 3” - 38 special 3” - 380 acp 5” - 10 mm 7” - 44 mag 4” - 40 s&w

[@IntoTheWildernessBushcraft]

Great video & Thank you! My 6” 686 chrono’d a 5 shot average of 1378fps with the 180 hard cast which is pretty close to the advertised #. I trust the heavier 180 grains once bone comes into play. Keep up the great content!

[@iouund3rtak3r13]

Awesome video sam for us .357 ccw folks..long live revolvers..the sexiest pistols ever..amen 🙏

[@GunSam]

Thank you.

[@IntoTheWildernessBushcraft]

Agreed

[@rickmanley767]

Yes!

[@georgiaboy4410]

Good test. Hard to beat a heavy, hard cast bullet for penetration👍🏻

[@GunSam]

Thank you. And the large flat tip also helps it keep moving straight.

[@robertnation3077]

Great test! Looks like a couple of good backcountry loads.

[@Jesuslovesyou929]

Will this work for grizzlies at close range...or Bigfoot type creatures...

[@allanbrown747]

I load a hardcast semi wadcutter for my blackhawk hunter 44 mag , in and out on deer with little meat damage and their cheap enough to stock pile for SHTF if needed! Great video👍

[@MrHrKaidoOjamaaVKJV]

@@GunSam Spot on, true! Flat Nose bullets are generally the most effective Handgun bullet for use in taking down dangerous apex predatorial beats. This is why I choose the Round Flat Nose bullet style, for my Kaido Ojamaa-VKV Universal Bullet series.

[@j.r.777]

I own a ton of firearms and use Underwood Xtreme Defender ammo as my self defense carry ammo. However, I recently bought my first revolver. A Ruger SP101 WC-Talo edition chambered in .357 Magnum/.38 Special. The one I bought has a 3 1/2” barrel. With the revolver, I bought a box of Underwood Xtreme Penetrator ammo that is 140 grain. I haven’t had the opportunity to test anything yet but hope to be able to do so pretty soon. The box of ammo that I bought was the only ammo the shop had in .357 Magnum but hopefully, I will be able to acquire more pretty soon.

[@captainobvious1721]

Exactly the comparison I was looking for. Got the info I needed. Thank you.

[@jonbumcrot2934]

Makes me want to build a box to test my 454 and 500 cast loads. Good stuff.

[@wemcal]

Great video... .357 magnums will always deliver!!!

[@GunSam]

Thank you. Most .357's yes, except not the American Gunner .357 load lol.

[@davidsomerset8411]

Alaskan ballistics chronographed and got 1600+ fps out of a 6 inch GP100 for the xtreme penetrators in 357 and about the same velocities as you got for the hard cast. Underwood seems to be very incompetent in loading their 357 magnum rounds. Might have to go with Buffalo Bore for 357 magnum those I never seen fail to deliver outstanding preformance.

[@wemcal]

David Somerset I wouldn’t call any .357 incompetent when it comes to incapacitating something.. the ballistics in gel or c’graphs may be off but defense protection is on par

[@bruceleroy8063]

Ah, the old 11 inch test barrel lol. Thanks.

[@ralphdials2354]

When you Absolutly, positively have to face a tank with a revolver.

[@mr.happyfunguy3772]

YES LMAO

[@dukeofbanfe]

Or if you’re me a 200 lbs black bear, or a 300 lbs grizz, or a 120 lbs wolf and 3 of his 90 lbs friends.

[@williamgrissom1995]

I'm amazed that the lighter copper round went head to head with hard cast lead and did so well. 😲 Great video as always. Thank you. 😁👍

[@GunSam]

Thank you. It's an interesting thing with such a large copper surface it should have had too much drag to penetrate so well, but obviously that tip made the difference.

[@ghostdog2041]

This is exactly what I was looking for! I bought a Marlin 1894 lever action .357 this week, and was looking for a good bullet that could shoot through an engine block. Ya know, if push came to shove.

[@PatRMG]

Good test. I've done a somewhat similar test with 500 magnum but the solid copper faired better.

[@GunSam]

Thank you. That 500 is a beast, fired the 8" .460 mag but not that 500 yet.

[@PatRMG]

@@GunSam If you get the chance, the 10.5" Performance Center is the one you want. I've fired all but the snubby.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

The .460 and .500 are practically rifles with a pistol grip. Nearly impractical. I still feel the .454 is about as hot as any handgun cartridge could be, given its size and versatility. The other stuff is just S&W flexing its market biceps, like a 'roids body builder.

[@ghostdog2041]

I bought a box of Xtreme Penetrators after watching this. Thank you!

[@TheGunfighter45acp]

Well done! I agree: the velocity numbers were bit off from advertised. I'm wondering if the manufacturers specs were obtained w/an 8" barrel or a carbine, given hunting applications?

[@johnnyvasquez4605]

Ive actually spoken to them about it before. They use a 6 inch for the 357 mag and a 4 inch for the 38 special. Ambient temperatures can effect velocity as well as rate of twist in a particular gun at least that's been my experience.

[@GunSam]

@@johnnyvasquez4605 I have gotten slower velocity readings with cold ammunition, but most of my tests with the same ammo with different ambient air temps seem to yield similar results as long as the ammo is warm. But that's just my results as my shooting area in Michigan is only 600 ft above sea level.

[@cshead]

I’ve been to their facility. They use a 6 inch Ruger GP100 for the 180 grain. I’ve also seen several tests, where the 4 inch 686 has poor velocity with several rounds.

[@robertstrickland2121]

TheGunfighter45acp I’m getting avg of 1325 with the hard cast in S&W M19 with 4” barrel, not much deviation either.

[@thedirtbag7]

Buffalo bore advertises 1400fps with their 180gr and many people have seen about 1430 with it from a 4inch. I'm curious to see what the extra 200fps will do. Just bought be some to find out

[@bryanthebryan2638]

You make the content I want, answering the questions I have. Thank you very much.

[@GunSam]

Thanks for watching!

[@thezieg]

Should the ballistic box test have put the pine board before the meat to represent a skull or shoulder blade?

[@THutch556]

I have seen personally from my years of reloading some pretty substantial velocity swings when testing ammo in the cold vs hot weather, so that may account for some loss of the rated velocity. Of course this is not all ammo, some powders are much more temp stable than others. They also probably used a 8” barrel for testing. Either way that’s a large swing in rated advertised velocity. One thing I will say about Buffalo bore who offers similar loadings to underwood is their rated velocities are usually spot on and give the velocities on their website for a lot of the loads out the actual firearm used instead of some vented pressure test barrel of unknown length. Good vid, regardless it looks like both performed well.

[@GunSam]

Thanks. I have never seen a difference between warm weather and cold weather with any ammo I have ever tested, but it's probably because I live in a high barometer and low elevation area. I have noticed the Buffalo Bore is very spot on. They listed the LSWCHP 158 gr at 1,000 FPS in a 1.875" J-frame, and in my 1.875" J-frame I averaged 1,002 FPS.

[@jacobackley502]

I have also found significant velocity swings with temperature. I loaded a max book load of lil gun in a 357 mag under a 180gr bullet. In 20 degree Pennsylvania winter I clocked low 1200s, in the hot northern California summer it was in the 1300s.

[@ernestwwal7111]

I carry the buffalo bore 180 grain in my 6in ruger gp100 when im in the woods or next to water when im night fishing. Here in kentucky we dont have grizzly but there has been sightings of bigfoot and i heard strang howling and tree knocking myself. I aint saying there real but theres things in the woods that we dont know about.

[@richavic4520]

Thanks for reminding me why I like the .357.

[@ShadowCatGambit]

It looks like the XP round is the way to go if you need to kill something large. It's the type of bullet that pushes a tidal wave through you and unzips you like a tent on the way out.

[@conanhercules5705]

😭😭😂😂

[@hydroplaneconvoy8130]

Hahaha

[@Dav-S5658]

I have seen many tests showing that Underwood listed velocities are way over rated. That's why I use Buffalo Bore and Grizzly hard cast

[@Me2Lancer]

Thanks Sam. I'm with you on the hard cast. It looked to me like it did more damage on the bologna. I would definitely prefer the hard cast for defense against dangerous game.

[@GunSam]

Thanks for watching. If you might have noticed my most current video I used this round again. I waited about a year to test again against the hard cast 10mm version.

[@gregorysivits3605]

I just want a rifle.....I'm a simple man

[@richd5025]

Thinking of trading in my 2 1/4" sp101 for a 6" GP100.

[@gregorysivits3605]

Ask the lady's, anything past 5 inches always does the job

[@ratagris21]

Great test and the performance of the xtreme penetrator is excellent even out of a .32acp. Underwood doesn't disappoint.

[@mkshffr4936]

I tend to favor simple well proven approaches but that XP seemed to do very well. If we ever are forced to give up Pb that might be the way to go.

[@livincincy4498]

"What If " the predator "Was wearing a Winter Coat" and carring a picnic basket with a bone in ham ? < wink >

[@GunSam]

bounce off....probably!

[@richardziemies8247]

HEY YOGI BEA. LOL.

[@mcburcke]

IIRC, Underwood Ammo uses a 6" test barrel for the .357 mag...would account for the velocity variance from printed data.

[@robertdaone]

Makes you wonder if the manufactures are rating these velocities out of a 5" or 6" barrel. Being a solid copper bullet for the extreme penetrators do you think it will cause more barrel wear? Whish I could find some extreme penetrators in 357 but his is very hard to find any 357 or 44 magnum ammo now.

[@J.R.F.23]

Great video, as always. I bought a box of the Underwood Hard Cast with the new "black" cherry coating; just for S.H.T.F. moments. Which I will shoot it out of a 686+ 5" Talo 357 Edition (non fluted cylinder). Which is by far the nicest shooting revolver I have ever shot. Even the trigger, right out of the box, exceeded my expectations. The single action on my 686+, far exceeds ANY Colt Python that I have ever fired. Personally I think that anyone that loves revolvers, should own a S&W 686!

[@GunSam]

I tested the black version in a 'dangerous animal' ballistic test a month ago (as far as how YT lists timing). I recall it did pretty well, a bit better than the .44 Mag version.

[@davidlee8551]

Great demonstration !

Dude u have such awesome presentation u definitely should have way more views and subscribers.

[@GunSam]

Thanks. Yeah I see a lot of channels zip right up and beyond mine in popularity, mine grows very slowly for some reason. I really don't know why this is.

[@Graydog-sx6le]

I always enjoy your videos. I carry a 38/357 most of the time and your video recently about good 38 ammo for self defense was awesome too. This one today made me think about what load to carry in the woods for 357. I have a question. What are your thoughts on lever actions chambered in 38/357. A good option as an all around gun to compliment a revolver?

[@GunSam]

Thank you. I have always wanted a .357 Levergun and I think it would be a decent rifle. From what I understand you can push what's normally a 600 ft lb energy load in a handgun up close to 1,000 ft lbs. It would be a pretty good home defense, hunting option for those who would rather not be an AR type of guy, oldschool but effective.

[@indianajets]

I load my Lehigh Defense 140g EP for my marlin 1894. Getting close to 2100fps. That's over 1300ftlbs

[@benjohnson3352]

Baloney pack is for sure pretty technical. thumbs up!

[@876mpr]

Something so heartwarming about heavy for caliber cast bullets. It doesn’t look like the velocity falling short of advertised mattered much. Besides, John Linebaugh considers 1200-1300 fps to be optimum velocity. After that, it’s time for a bigger hammer.

[@mikg7029]

Great video! My results with UnderWood 180g Hardcast where: 1270 fps with RUGER SP101 (4.2”) 1355 fps with S&W 586 (6”)

[@bobjames2312]

Hard cast is a more dense FMJ, if you put the 2 up against eachother, you may find the Hard Cast will outperform the FMJ in normal and animal ballistic packs. the XTP surprised me, as copper is a lighter material than what's used in FMJ or Hard Cast rounds. Great test my dude, keep up the great work

[@GunSam]

Hard cast is harder, but not more dense.

[@bobjames2312]

@Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ good point. Merry Christmas my dude. Thank you for taking the time out of your Christmas for the reply :)

[@jpg_sig10]

Thanks for your video. Underwood tests their revolver loads with a 6" barrel, unless otherwise stated. You're using only a 4" barrel, so you're losing 150~200 FPS right out the gate. It was also cold and wet outside - more dense atmospheric conditions will cause ammo to lose velocity. I'm out of excuses for Underwood Ammo. Personally, I prefer the Underwood FN HCL loads over their Xtreme Penetrators, and not just because of cost either. In 10mm Auto, I've found their 200 Gr FN HCL round is more accurate and offers better penetration than their 140 Gr Xtreme Penetrator. I have also found the 200 Gr FN HCL load to be more accurate than the 220 Gr FN HCL load, out of my S&W M&P 10mm M2.0 4.6" pistol. Good things! 👍

[@albertforletta1498]

Thank you! Awesome video.

[@GunSam]

Thank you and thanks for watching!

[@libbylewis6]

You have some of the best videos God bless you and your family

[@akmguyman762X39]

I seem to have better luck with Double Tap when it comes to rated velocities. I shot the Underwood 125 grain full metal jacket out of my 6" 586 and was averaging 1520 which is well below the advertised 1700. I shot some Double Tap 200 grain hard cast and averaged 1260 compared to 1315. Bottom line is I ordered two more boxes of Double Tap and not Underwood.

[@GunSam]

So far my closest to velocity has been Buffalo Bore, but of course they list all sorts of barrels so it's no surprise.

[@stonegiant4]

I carry the hardcast in a 2". It's a beast but controllable enough at the short ranges one would expect to use a snubby.

[@GunSam]

I had thought about testing it in my 2" Taurus 605, I wouldn't be too concerned about recoil but i'm sure i'd be close to a 90 degree muzzle rise if I don't hold it tight lol. I usually let the muzzles jump when chronographing butwhen target shooting I do not.

[@adonikam1]

Ok, out of my own tests and watching many others this was the first time I have seen Underwood have that much of a velocity loss, they usually are higher about 24fps average. Temperatures make a difference but not that much. Cold won't hurt ammo as much as heat. Bad lot maybe? Chronograph? That's disconcerting to me. Good video thanks....

[@whiteymcwhiterton7199]

So no 2 inch barrel test? Jk. Thanks for another great video sir.

[@GunSam]

Thank you. It might have "kicked" a little lol

[@828enigma6]

@@GunSam Guaranteed pain. I've a 649 that is most discomforting to fire with standard 357 ammo. I can only imagine how it would be with the hot loads.

[@freedomfirst5420]

Lol.😬

[@badgerrrlattin35]

I'd sure like to see Lee start making bullet molds using this X bullet kind of profile. Cast them babies hard and I'll bet those things would preform well.

[@GunSam]

From my understanding a copper bullet is around 30 brinell and a hard cast around 15 to 20 and regular cast lead about 7. It might work, but even if not we might see an inverted hollow point effect where rather than expanding from a hollow cavity, the fins expand down and out.

[@Youngonce01]

I also have wondered how a lead cast bullet with the "X" profile would preform. It would be fun to experiment with different hardnesses.

[@organicmaterialsciencecorp6115]

Very good video sir. Good work!

[@GunSam]

Thank you kindly!

[@rcjames5286]

These are great. 👍👍 penetration tests

[@mgsharnhorst]

Good test. Great penetration from both rounds. It appears the extreme penetrator did more damage though

[@johncaban4310]

I shot these out of my S&W 640 2.125" gun. Do you feel it. HELL YES!!!! But when I am hiking in the woods of NH this is my gun of choice.

[@aludtke86]

I own the same gun and was wondering how The Recoil would be in the 640 with these rounds

[@johncaban4310]

@@aludtke86 It has some kick but you will not be shooting 100's of rounds with it. I practice with 38 and shot 1 box with the heavy loads and keep the heavy loads in when I hike. Love the gun. Even got a trigger job for it and it is down to around 9 lbs from over 14 lbs. Big difference.

[@aludtke86]

Thank you for the info. I mostly be using them out of my 2 and 1/2 inch 686 Plus but it's nice to know how it will handle in my 640 as well

[@Shorn_]

I wish someone would test the .357 Xtreme Hunter projectile offered by Underwood/Lehigh. It's the same idea as the Xtreme defender where the flutes are cut wider for more disruption and energy dump without the worry of overpenetration and collateral damage; they also don't have the weight reduction that the Xtreme defender bullets do meaning the load could be stretched for minor barrier penetration before making contact with tissue and dumping energy. The only test of the Xtreme Hunter is Kentucky Ballistics video featuring a 10mm autoloader.

[@Mh187pj]

Hey good info, my Taurus 357 shoots just about the advertised velocity from these loads out of a 6” barrel. Every inch counts in revolvers. Maybe the cylinder / barrel gap is larger on that particular pistol? Great work 👍🏻

[@GunSam]

mine is .003" to .004" or so. Thanks for watching.

[@troyb.4101]

Bar S boloney should support you!

[@GunSam]

Or sue me for defamation lol

[@timsmith5837]

Great test, thank you

[@TheRealSpinz]

I shot the 180 grain out of the Taurus 605 recoil was nasty

[@keithfreeman5204]

I have and shoot a Traditions G2, single shot, break action, 22in. Barrel. with a Bushnell 3x9x40 on top. Thanks for the info I have just got to give these rounds a try, if I can find them. I am an active 357 magnum reloader. Bullets are the hard cast semi wad cutter and the XTP. 125 & 158gn. 14 & 15 gr Lil Gun and a Small Rifle Primer. 50 yards, from the bench, 3 shot groups, all hole touching.

[@chrisgabbert658]

Hi Sam I would use the hard cast.

[@pippupaladin]

I'd love to see a test of the .327 Federal Xtreme Defender

[@Jesuslovesyou929]

Would this work for grizzlies or Bigfoot....honestly asking..I live in the Appalachian foothills...and need to know

[@GunSam]

It would probably be enough with the right shot placement.

[@Lateralus1007]

One of my favorite episode lol Luv the .44 Mono Metal too 💪

[@AlaskanBallistics]

.357mag is usually tested in 6" barrels. Also your cylinder gap might be big. Ruger is looking at my gp100 for the same reasons 180-200fps slower, but mmine is a 6"

[@GunSam]

I actually get a lot of question about my 686 based on this video, but considering almost every other test with the main brand ammo I get right in with rated velocity and often higher, and with Buffal Bore where they have the 4" S&W mountain gun listed, my 686 is always above that rating. I think its the ammo and or specific lot number. Underwood makes great auto cartridges but I have chronographed a ton of their .38 and 357 rounds and they have all been significantly lower than rated velocity.

[@jasonvoorhees2701]

What do you think a 5 inch GP100 could squeeze out of the 140 grain I understand its subjective to many variables just trying to atleast get a ball park ..thanks for all you do

[@johnrobb3275]

Two more inches of barrel could definitely add 300fps with the right powder! Thanks for the show! :D

[@GunSam]

Two more inches most certainly would NOT add 300 FPS. I suspect maybe 30 FPS more the way this round is loaded. Now if you took the Buffalo Bore version of this round which is the same 180 gr bullet (not coated) with the same 1,400 FPS rating, then maybe. The Buffalo Bore version is listed at 1,400 FPS and shows 1,375 FPS in a 4" S&W revolver. I got 1,387 FPS average in my 4" S&W revolver with the Buffalo Bore version. Just goes to 100% prove that Underwood's version is extraordinarily weak.

[@biggunshandguns3687]

I agree with same you might get 50fps more in 2 inches of more barrel but 300fps. Show me a video and I'll be on your side

[@leonardrodgers5746]

@@GunSam Ballistics by the inch www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html showed an average of 475 fps gain going from 2" to 4" test barrel length, but only 185 fps going from 4" to 6" in the 8 ammo samples used. However, the real guns tested were much less correlated velocity to barrel length. Your gun can compare the two ammo types, but not all 4" revolvers of the same model will produce the results you get. Also Underwood may use a test barrel without a cylinder gap to get their numbers. www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/gaptests.html and real gun test should be interesting to compare your results against their S&W 586 4" on ammo you have tested.

[@Jesuslovesyou929]

I wish the Xtreme penetrator actually didn't move as fast as they say it did I bet it would be hyper destructive

[@carldewitz5239]

Thanks Good info I'm getting a 573 not sure S&W 686 or a Ruger GP 100 or Redhawk I'm thinking 4 inch or 6 inch barrel Thanks

[@jameshood9694]

I want to try these especially the hardcast and compare them to the 180 hardcast that I got from Grizzly Cartridge Inc. The Grizzly version has more noticeable recoil than most the 357 rounds I have fired.

[@blobblob8205]

Underwood tests their 357 loads with a 6" barrel. .44 magnum with a 7.5" barrel.

[@carscigarsscotchnwatches5158]

Nice comparison. Seems like a lot of the advertised velocities seem higher than reality. I wonder how the buffalo bore 180's stack up to these.

[@GunSam]

Thank you. It's funny how ammo companies are optimistic with their numbers, however in all my tests there's one brand that almost always is above rated velocity, and that is Federal. Almost every test shows this. Even their 158 gr .357 Mag which is rated at 1,240 FPS along with literally every other company rating a 158 gr at 1,240 FPS, the Federal ammo usually gives 1,300 FPS in a 4" barrel.

[@robertkubrick3738]

Should have used a Keith style 173 grain. Probably comparable damage along with the penetration. Costs less too after you buy a mould.

[@derek45auto23]

Keith 358429 with a old school max load of 2400 powder

[@waynemccuen8213]

Wouldn't the Underwood wound cavity be better than just a little more length of penetration you see with the hardcast?

[@ryancollins543]

357 my favorite round do 357 v 10 mm test

[@pennfishing9246]

10mm does better than 357 mag

[@thorman944]

@@pennfishing9246 in your dreams. Compare same manufacturer, same type ammo. 357 mag beats 10mm all day long. Go crazy & compare buffalo bore 10mm to buffalo bore 357 mag, both from same barrel length. You will find that the energy of the 357 beats 10mm nicely.

[@keithgregory7937]

Good video thanks for sharing!

[@GunSam]

Thank you. I have many more coming!

[@Billfish57]

That's amazing penetrating there, I would have guessed about 4 jugs.

[@scottmorgan1016]

neat test. surprised me on no expansion on the penetrator load. it looks like a phillips head screw driver. and I wonder what barrel length was used by manufacturer for their velocities

[@michigunsanta8680]

Scott hillbilly Morgan/Kentucky they’re not suppose to expand. They have this cork screw effect to expand the wound channel.

[@devinpowers4368]

It's not that bad either out of a 2-in barrel. I have the colts King Cobra 357. It doesn't have a 10mm recoil. Now my 10 is a hand cannon for sure

[@loaf8637]

That 180gr hard cast out of a Henry would rip.

[@tires2burn]

Every time I get your videos up I get hungry. I'll bet you hear that a lot. Ha Good stuff bud

[@GunSam]

Sometimes, but it's rarely something I think about because I think bologna is gross.

[@rockjohnson2879]

I like your videos. Have you ever gave thought of using bone from pigs or cow instead of fiber board and pine board

[@GunSam]

Thanks, but I just don't really have a way to get pig bones, plus I like to keep an exact consistency and I get that with the fiber board.

[@johnvillafranca6188]

Great video. You have a new subscriber.

[@GunSam]

Thanks!

[@Fudmottin]

Third jug sent up a fountain of water, taking out the top view camera. How difficult would it be for you to make the blanket backstop removable for those odd occasions where a bullet ends up in it? Or perhaps the hard cast went clean through the blankets and into the hillside.

[@GunSam]

I'm actually making a new jug-or-not and debating all options. I even have a good piece of plexiglass that I may or may not make some sort of removable camera shield with, and I definitely need to fix my bologna and blanket holders lol.

[@Fudmottin]

@@GunSam A camera shield shouldn't be too difficult. A simple 8x8 or 12x12 piece of clear acrylic you can get at the local hardware store will do the job. You just mount it right below the camera so that it is close enough the camera isn't seeing its own reflection (I think that turns it into stone). The blanket pack can have a removable subsection or something that basically slides into place on the back of the box. You should have no trouble with that. The current bologna pack arrangement lets the pack move and push against the water jugs. That's a good thing. The human body is not a solid lump. So I'm not sure what you can do there other than having some tie downs similar to what you use now for the duct tape.

[@JamesMichael333]

IF you were forced to use a .357 round against a grizzly, what would it be? Would the hard cast be among the highest penetrating rounds?

[@GunSam]

I would use hard cast if it were me as I feel they are more predictable performance. I just tested the Buffalo Bore version of this 180 gr hard cast bullet and it did a lot better, about 1,400 FPS. I tested against 10mm and .44 Mag Buffalo Bore hard cast and it rivaled them. Just as good pretty much as the .44 Mag which surprised me.

[@JamesMichael333]

Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ Awesome. Thank you for the reply

[@xCaPz]

Would it be safe to shoot these at an indoor range?

[@kentwilliams4152]

“Hydraulic” performance is a very accurate. Most folks use the term “hydrostatic.” I suspect that the chronograph is not reading correctly. Underwood is famous for accurate velocity listing of their products.

[@60viking]

Is the ammo cold? I also seem to think that 4" barrel is industry standard for Velocity test. But i don't know that for sure and do think i read it on the internet, :-)

[@BUZZKILLJRJR]

I thought the factory tests are all done with 8" barrel? But all i find is 4" and 5" standard And Does 4 to 8 is way bigger difference than 4 to 6 or 4 to 5

[@andywilson8698]

I was thinking about gritting into reloading, but i got mixed psi pressure loadings for 38 special +p . I dont wanna blow up anything . So which is it 18500 psi or 20000 psi for 38 special +p?

[@andywilson8698]

@Ballistic Bob Taurus model 85 Plus p

[@GunSam]

I have always saw 17,000 PSI for standard pressure .38 Special, 20,000 PSI for .38 Special +P and 21,700 for the CIP standard of just ".38 Special". What's interesting is when reloading manuals list something as a +P but then show the pressure of that load as 15,000 PSI, and you're like, what is this deal? From what I understand, reloading manuals usually back off the top end of the loads to keep the public safe. Rule of thumb is to start with the starting charge, test them, go up to the next 1/10th of a grain increment and test them looking for pressure signs, and so on. You're not likely to see pressure signs in a .38 Special though (look up pressure signs) because it uses the same brass thickness and all of that as the .357 Magnum. But either way, just know your revolver. If it's a modern one in .38 Special, you're probably going to be fine no matter what you do as well as with a .357 revolver loading .38 Special's. If it's an older or weaker revolver just stay low and very slowly test each increment and look at the revolver for anything weird.

[@andywilson8698]

@@GunSam thanks

[@daves5765]

Good review.

[@fishing4happiness610]

Great test, although you may want to change your title from "Extreme Defender " to "Extreme Penetrator" as there is a notable penetration difference between the two. I wish my Sig P365 and my Shield would shoot them as accurately as the Underwood Hard Cast which have proven the most accurate round in all my 9mms and 40 cals. I carry Hard Cast for woods carry, but carry Defenders and Penetrators for barrier work. You should do a video where you shoot hardened 4" door hinges with Penetrators vs Hard Cast... nothing beats Penetrators and Defenders for truly hard barriers...I know, I lost a high dollar bet thinking that my 40 cal. Hard Cast could penetrate the hinge as easily as a 9mm Extreme Defender...3 rounds later and no dice. It took 1 shot from the 9mm that went through it like butter. We tested on 3 hinges... same result.

[@GunSam]

Thank you, I had thought I did name it Xtreme Penetrator, but obviously I misnamed it. I probably wouldn't shoot hinges, but possible some car door simulation.

[@BanjoZZZ]

Chronographs don't always agree with eachother, and factors like elevation, humidity, and ambient temperature can affect chronograph results.

[@GunSam]

Maybe, however I get a lot of comments on this particular ammo with the chronograph being an issue, but 95% of all other ammo I test is at or above rated velocity, so I can clearly say that this ammo is the culprit for low velocity.

[@jwarren6733]

I was interested to learn altitude, temperature, barometric, ect ect. pressure will affect ammo performance significantly.

[@BobMarley-pm1xb]

Fine vid Sam! I wonder if a head shot on a brown bear might be better with the Underwood just based on where and how it dumped it’s energy. I have a tiny cabin up in the mountains @ about 7300’ and you just do not go out without something. In 35 years I have been too close about 7 times. A .357 mag is as much Gun as I can handle (just barely) at my age. I value your opinion. Have you got a thought or two on that?

[@GunSam]

I just did a video with the Buffalo Bore version of this hard cast round, and I can definitely say that the .357 Magnum did exactly the same thing that the .44 Mag and 10mm hard cast did. It's every bit as good as .44 mag. Now the Underwood version is less powerful than the Buffalo Bore version but it does the dame damage and has less recoil. No doubt it would stop a bear.

[@BobMarley-pm1xb]

Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ Thanks a million Sam. Recoil is a major problem for me in my 70’s. Not as big a problem as getting eaten by a bear or one of my “pet” cougars (oh yeah......it’s like going to the apex predator section of the zoo right after an earthquake tore down all the bars 😑) ! Underwood in .357 it is. Now, where in heck will I find that? 😭😢😩...LoL 😂 Thanks for your help Sir!

[@biggunshandguns3687]

@@BobMarley-pm1xb perhaps if you know someone that reloads you could have them match a reload to the buffalo bore or Underwood. Either way I'm impressed and happy that at 70 years young you can still get out and enjoy what the Lord gave us

[@coldsteel.and.courage]

Rated velocity is usually measured out of a 8" barrel. Food for thought, anything shorter will have less velocity.

[@GunSam]

That's not fact. Different companies use different lengths often based on caliber. Example, Hornady uses 8" for .357 mag and 4" for .38 Special. Remington uses 4" for both .38 Special and .357 mag. Underwood uses 6" for .357 mag.

[@coldsteel.and.courage]

@@GunSam said usually, not always

[@bjs301]

I'm not sure how significant this is, but anytime I see velocity tests being done, the chronometer is set up at least five yards away. And velocities rarely live up to the manufacturers' claims. But I'm pretty sure listed muzzle velocities are actually obtained right at the muzzle. Decades ago I was taught that loss of velocity is greatest right after the bullet leaves the muzzle, and decreases over distance. I just looked at some Hornady ballistics charts, and confirmed that the reduction of velocity of rifle bullets decreases over each succeeding 100 yard distance. I realize this would not explain all of the difference between advertised and real velocities, or even most of it, but it would be interesting to see if it explains a significant portion. Maybe test as close to the muzzle as will give you a reading, versus test at 5 or 7 yards. Have you ever tried this? I've never seen anybody do it.

[@GunSam]

Its difficult to get true muzzle readings with a traditional light sensor chronograph. Its possible but would require the right ammo that's clean and flash suppressed. Most likely 9mm would be the best cartridge to try as it burns up its little powder fast. Even cheap FMJ would tell us something if I shoot 10 rounds from muzzle then 10 ft increments up to 50 feet away.

[@ted.angell7609]

It would be nice if these manufacturers would list barrel lengths along with velocity, although ultimately it’s about how much damage the round will actually do. It’s like flashlight manufacturers, trying to one-up each other with claims of how many lumens their product puts out. So for $11 you get 300 lumens out of a AA battery... yeah, right 🙄

[@garysarratt1]

ted.angell instagram I wrote Underwood about their 10mm. They use a 5” barrel.

[@pointerdogman2814]

Well planned video.

[@ted.angell7609]

It seems like the extreme penetrator delivers on what the ARX promises, without breaking up.

[@Tommy-ni1yw]

Hell man you may be able to protect yourself against a grizzly with those 2

[@brian-in-ak]

A fishing guide here in Alaska dropped a charging Grizzly with a 9mm using Buffalo Bore hard cast +P rounds. Six rounds, center mass, and it wadded up at his feet.

[@Tommy-ni1yw]

@@brian-in-ak holy crap that's scary. Yeah I heard story's of a 9mm saving a couple peoples hides. Idk if Id personally trust it but that's awesome.👍

[@joeyphillips1181]

I'm disappointed that federal doesn't load a 357 mag HST or Winchester with there old fashioned black talons anymore.. seems like a Golde saber 357 should hold its own too my favorite 10mm is loaded with 165 grain golden sabers lol the Sig V crown is a little disappointing in 357 in some tests

[@MrMakto]

advertised is at the muzzle, vs 7 yards or so in front of you.

[@robertburgard8588]

Maybe I am wrong but it looks like underwood ammo copies its bullet velocities from buffalo bore. I have seen numerous tests with underwood that did not achieve the listed velocity regardless of barrel length.

[@GunSam]

3rd reply attept. YT keeps deleting replies

[@mitubogoogle]

Another good video. Since both are penetrating more than 30" of ballistic gel equivalent, neither should be consider "self defense ammo"? What would be the application of these (other than hunting/killing large animals)?

[@GunSam]

Thank you. I think the penetrator can be utilized for self defense, but the hard cast probably is not a good idea.

[@mitubogoogle]

@@GunSam i would use ammo that stops at 15" or 3rd of your jugs. I stop the threat why overkill? If the deadly threat survives i'd be in a lot less legal trouble not mentioning emotional distress