360 magnum edelbock dual plane diy efi

any contributions are greatly appreciated
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modifying a carb dual plane manifold for the 360 magnum in the Dakota RT. Hughes performance sells a bolt on Edelbrock RPM air gap but the price is steep and almost always backordered. so I made my own for a little over half the price.

[@MGauto916]

Edelbrock actually makes a intake manifold for the small block Chrysler to replace the Kegger intake manifold. But it doesn’t have that adapter plate for the 2 barrel throttle body. So u have to buy the 4 Barr throttle body or try to find the adapter plate for the stock throttle body

[@michaelowen6197]

With the M1 no longer in production and the Hughes on production halt, you could make killing selling these FI covered manifolds. But after the price of the manifold, parts and all the labor you put into it, could be hard to turn a profit. But I'm willing bet, you have had a lot of requests. Dyno run should be interesting, Iv'e never seen one for this manifold verses a kegger.

[@thomasbeyer]

I agree that's the hard part. It takes so much time that by time it's worth doing it's too expensive or barely breaking even. We've got plenty of runs of the kegger we should have a fairly good comparison of what the dual plane has to offer

[@michaelowen6197]

@@thomasbeyer I'm not sure at what RPM the dyno load starts at, but I'm guessing below 3000 RPM the kegger has an advantage, the further you go above that, the spread gets bigger. 25-35 hp at 5500-6000 rpm.

[@santillanclaudio8]

Nice job man! Thanks for documenting your projects

[@thomasbeyer]

Thank you

[@utawesomeperformance2211]

Noce Thomas! I just did the same mod on a kegger that had bad FI ports and you nailed it- no fun welding it!

[@thomasbeyer]

Thanks man. Definitely a pain to weld in between the bungs.

[@judyloper422]

Rob here...the 1577 intake replaces the kegger style intake. However there are no water ports at the rear of the intake to line up with the water jackets on the heads,so the no.7&8 cylinders will get hot due to no water flow. I tried it with my 360 Magnum,cam snout extension and using L.A. series parts but,did not work. Building L.A. 360 to get it right.

[@thomasbeyer]

The kegger doesn't have water ports at the rear either. Its common to drill and tap the pads at the rear and use a thermostat housing spacer to allow water flow from the rear ports with an lines tho. I haven't done that on mine yet but I haven't had any real problems so far.

[@95Sn95]

Nice job, I was thinking of doing this myself so I'm doing a bit a research. I have a 95 mustang gt with a 5.0 and all the aftermarket efi intakes cost a fortune so I was thinking of grabbing a good dual plane adding injector bosses and top it off with a 4150 flange to efi... Plus it would look way trick to have that vs the normal efi intakes for 5.0s. I'm 49 and been modding vehicals for years I'm just a efi newb always been a carb guy, I'm just 30 years late to the efi party lol.

[@thomasbeyer]

That would look good. I also like when IV made or modified something! It feels a little better than just buying and bolting something on.

[@nickolasedmunds]

The difference is the air gap in the manafold the original is very small per cylinder the new intake has bigger intake ports

[@RJGPG]

One tip: The intake has two 1/8 NPT holes for CTS and CT Sender, but the 3/8NPT for heater hose is on opposite side under AC bracket. You will either need to tap one of the 1/8NPT to 3/NPT and add a T to retain all sensors or ditch the AC and drill a hole on the bracket for a new heater hose location.

[@thomasbeyer]

Luckily I don't have ac and the heater core is busted so I just blocked the heater ports off for now lol. I will have to fix it one day cause it sucks in the winter.

[@michaelowen6197]

Nice work.

[@thomasbeyer]

Thank you

[@TheOverisel]

I find it interesting that Mopar Performance used their single plane higher RPM intake as the offered upgrade over the kegger. Since the manifold only moves air -being it's port injected I wonder if the science is different than that of a carburetor. A mild engine such as the stock 318 360 Magnum if carbureted would want a dual plane. But yet with port injection, Mopar Performance utilized it's high RPM single plane M1. Along comes Hughes and they go in the opposite direction of Mopar choosing the dual plane Performer RPM.

[@thomasbeyer]

If you look at more modern engines like the newer hemis or LS the intake runner lengths are significantly longer than single and dual plane intakes. They still maintain very good flow with that runner length though where the Magnum intake does not flow very well but it does have long runners. . I couldn't get my laptop to work at the dyno but I did Dyno it with the new intake just bolted on and it made about five more horsepower at the upper RPMs then my fully ported kegger. I'm going to a single plane now with the twin turbos kind of intentionally to lose some torque also it's easier to find an LA bolt pattern that's already ready for EFI in a single plane.

[@thomasbeyer]

If we could somehow get the runner length back and maintain a high flow rate these things would be closer to keeping up with the more modern engines. I've thought about a tunnel ram setup.. or something like the cross ram. Two throttle bodies and two plenums.

[@TheOverisel]

@@thomasbeyer If hood clearance is not an issue a Weiand tunnel ram is plentiful used. Offenhauser used to make bolt on apparatus's (plural) that bolted to each carb pad of a low profile dual quad intake to create a faux crossram. But I believe it's a visual exercise and not a true performance exercise. Plus - unless you have a small block Chevy the cost would be painful. The tunnel ram would be much less costly and actually provide increased mid and top end power.

[@curtisalan4402]

Wow......Very good sir.

[@thomasbeyer]

Thank you

[@RJGPG]

Just de-converted my factory Magnum EFI to this intake and Holley Sniper/Hyperspark. Million times easier to get to distributor.

[@DarrensTruckzs]

That’s awsome I’m jus doing mine right now too 👍

[@mattyb496]

What made you decide to pull the factory Efi?

[@RJGPG]

@@mattyb496 It had electrical issues that I could never figure out. Once I had it all apart and tore into the harness for the Sniper install I believe I either have a burnt fuel pump or wiring. Also, I planned to do cam and turbo setup which thr factory OBDI computer won't handle in stock form. Room to grow

[@Ratridez]

@@mattyb496 Stock 2 barrel efi and the kegger is a power robber , throw it in the scrap pile .

[@butcherbaker4258]

​@@Ratridezwhy would you throw it in the stockpile? Just take off the intake the heads pull out to can and you are left with the building blocks of a potentially great motor. I've seen guys pull over 400 horsepower out of the factory internals are really not that bad and as soon as you put some good pistons and rods in there and run boost or nitrous. The 5.9 is the poor man's LS.

[@rubbersatin]

Nice video! I had this done on the 1st M1 years ago before they made them pre drilled. Too bad they don't make a single plane...

[@thomasbeyer]

Thanks. Yeah I'd definitely like to do a single plane next to see what it does.

[@ken-ul7kf]

Nice job,can you tell where did you get the aluminum pins from

[@tomb374]

you are most definitely one skilled talented knowledgeable and gutsy kinda guy. With access to a lot of cool tools. NOPE, don't want to pick out curtains..(with you or any other guy)... but I would support your work if there was a way... patreon maybe? Let me know

[@thomasbeyer]

Lol thank you it's all good. IV thought about Patreon I may look into it.

[@tomb374]

@@thomasbeyer I have no idea what's involved in patreon but I support other musicians there. Hope it's something feasible for you. You answer a lot of questions for guys like me. Much appreciated and should get some kind of compensation for it...

[@thomasbeyer]

@@tomb374I did it. I'd been thinking about it but that last nudge pushed me to do it. So thank you. www.patreon.com/user?u=68180841

[@carlospyanreyes]

Excellent job, how did you secure the injector rail and where did you get the bungs?

[@keithcull254]

I just built a 5.9 with comp cam , dual plain , fitech efi , thin head gaskets and it's a whole different animal

[@thomasbeyer]

How are you liking the fitech?

[@keithcull254]

@@thomasbeyer I didnt have a chance yet to install the fitech but very close .

[@jcs480able]

@@keithcull254 how did that fitech work out?

[@keithcull254]

@@jcs480able It didnt , trouble code tells me all 4 injector are faulty but I think the pcm is done ( that's why I got it so cheap ) . I'm running a holley 600 dp and it's running great , I may just leave it like that . It's in my 51 dodge kingsway , 3300 lbs and 3.73 diff , snappy and leaves rubber I'm happy .

[@jcs480able]

@@keithcull254a Happy ending nonetheless..

[@brokentoolgarage8609]

Very nice! I had that idea a few years ago, nice to see it done. What size mill do you have?

[@raymanley2551]

great work you are doing!!!i am not good at welding could this be purchased completed from you? would love to try this but fear my measuring might be off and trash an intake. also any bets as to peak hp gains??? i say 35/40 hp

[@thomasbeyer]

Not from me. IV got too much going on. Hopefully 40hp

[@thegrey8643]

You ought to check out Gearheads and Godly's channel. They did a 1997 ram 1500 5.2L efi to Carter AFB conversion pretty easy and even show how to use the existing fuel system to make it easy to do. The performance gains were substantial.

[@BuickRoyal-hm6dg]

Great channel I always enjoy watching I’m installing an air gap on a 2000 ram and was wondering you modified the two barrel 2 four barrel adapter plate and the divider wall of the Intake. So do you or do you not recommend doing that? I would enjoy your two cents thanks and God bless

[@thomasbeyer]

It's hard to tell without an a to b Dyno and mine being turbocharged but I feel it was a little softer on the bottom and maybe a little gain around 5,000. I would recommend cutting it down a little bit but maybe not as far as I went.

[@thomasbeyer]

Now I did have in mind softening up the low end to attempt to aid traction taking off

[@austin_94gt18]

Love the music. What's the part # for that manifold?

[@thomasbeyer]

Edl-7577. I don't remember on the music. KZbin has a section of free to use music I picked it out from.

[@RJGPG]

What TB are you going to run? A cost effective solution would be a 78MM LS style truck TB and Carn 4150 elbow. LS uses the same IACV plug and TPS has similar scaler, just need to go to round pigtail instead of flat.

[@thomasbeyer]

I'll run the dodge throttle body for testing first. Then probably go with the ls style and go big.

[@johngabriele6532]

I’ve always wondered if that could be done …. Where could I get a milling machine and lath machine from …

[@thomasbeyer]

I got mine from Littlemachineshop.com

[@oscarwalton1188]

It's cool but I'm not convinced a dual plain would be of any benefit also keep in mind the kegger is designed for low end grunt so different approach than a typical performance manifold future mod might be cut out the divider .

[@thomasbeyer]

If you've watched all my videos and the Dyno videos you would know I'm a kegger advocate. They are great up to about 320-330 rwhp with a small cam. I saw a very small gain at 6000 rpm going to the dual plane from my ported kegger but you would need to see the kegger video it's not lightly modded it's paper thin ported. but if you want to get much further with a mild cam and rev to 6500 the dual plane is the way to go. That being said all the hours spent porting yielded the same result as just bolting on the dual plane and the dual plane still made a bit more. Time Vs money it's up to you.

[@DarrensTruckzs]

Right on .. you did a great job an you were able to do it with your own equipment too . Good for you that’s the way to do.. called fabricating an improvising to fabricate lol👍 you musta ground them off flush inside the port after there welded .👍I got those size of bungs on order that you said to get .. coming from jegs .. then I will get to doing mine.. thanks for the how to video .. I bet there be a lot of us out here doing this !! There is next to no videos of anyone showing this on KZbin that I could find.. hopefully this video do well for ya !!👍 what will you do for Tbi to bolt on or will you be switching to carburetor ? Please keep the how to videos coming with this up to completion an your review an HP gains an running wise .. I appreciate this very very much .. stay safe cheers 👍

[@thomasbeyer]

I'll adapt the stock style throttle body for now for testing and then go to a 4 barrel throttle or elbow and ls style throttle body later.

[@DarrensTruckzs]

@@thomasbeyer ya ook that what I was thinking too get an adapter to fit stock Tbi on it then when money is avaible to purchase the 4 barrel throttle body . I’m not sure who where the best place is to get them . As for price an decent quality . Let me On that when your at that point !! 👍again thanks very much on these videos 👍

[@DarrensTruckzs]

Hughes engines sells the adapter to install the original Tbi .. they got in stock I jus ordered one an the gaskets .all linkages an such will still be almost at original height no changes need to be made from what I see .. jus waiting for it to come in the mail now jus in case anyone needs one an wants that style 👍

[@thomasbeyer]

@@DarrensTruckzs I'll check them out

[@mattyb496]

Did you consider the Hughes manifold? It’s already setup for Injection

[@thomasbeyer]

Yes but theirs is 750 and is always backordered it seems. I got mine ready for 450

[@wirefly1000]

Hughes engines has a lot of this stuff

[@thomasbeyer]

At the time they were backordered for somewhere around 7 months. And I still saved about $200.

[@dtruth5769]

Do u think retaining the fuel injection will give u more power than say a Holley Dblp or an avs annual edelbrock?

[@thomasbeyer]

A carb would make more power. Just want to keep the fuel injection to stay more relevant with other RT owners for more testing.

[@02rtjawn]

Do you think the injector bungs could be epoxied in? I cant weld aluminum.

[@thomasbeyer]

As long as it never backfires maybe. But I don't know I've got no experience with that

[@bryancoats5328]

I’ve seen one kegger, I can’t remember where or who did it, but it had a 4 barrel flange milled in place of the factory two barrel one, and allowed for a 4 barrel throttle body to be bolted on. Do you or anyone have the info on this?

[@thomasbeyer]

I don't. But I don't see that running very well either.

[@erikturner5073]

Sweet!! Nice work! Also I was trying to send an email with the information you provided for a throttle body upgrade but was unsuccessful. Did the email address change?

[@thomasbeyer]

Same email. [e-mail]

[@jojomonkey3643]

What throttle body did you put on? Cause I am having trouble deciding which one I want to get

[@thomasbeyer]

I bored my own to 53mm. Dyno testing really didn't show much difference between a ported 50mm to a 53mm at the 300 rwhp range. But porting the factory 50mm is a nice improvement.

[@TheProchargedmopar]

👍💪

[@wc-classics]

How many amps did you have to use for the job? I have a 180 amp ac/dc tig welder. Not sure if its enough to tackle a job like this.

[@thomasbeyer]

I heated it up first with my propane torch then I started welding.

[@austin_94gt18]

What's the music from?

[@ken-ul7kf]

Nice job Where did you get the intake from

[@thomasbeyer]

Summit racing I believe

[@donaldpowers5557]

Man you all are making me feel bad ... I have 2 M1s a huges throttle body, a couple of reworked stock bodies .. a freshened 408 .. would like to get some good aluminum heads. I watched power nation where the made huge power with a 408 forged internals. But they are closed (ing) the track in the Houston area. Mopar guy a heart

[@thomasbeyer]

What car are you running your 408 in?

[@donaldpowers5557]

@@thomasbeyer haven't decided yet i have a couple first gen Dakotas. The guy the freshened it for me that it had drilled passages for using LA Heads. So I have eddy performers or a set of W2s . Feading those cubes shouldn't be too difficult.

[@thomasbeyer]

@@donaldpowers5557 that's awesome. I got lucky and still had a early magnum block In storage when I built the Dakota. The early ones still had the oil holes machined. So I too can use any cylinder head. IV thought about using some speedmaster la aluminum heads and porting those to keep it cheapish.

[@donaldpowers5557]

@@thomasbeyer you just described my life cheapest. I'm 71 !I cut my teeth on mopar . In the summer of 68 my neighbor bought a 69 HEMI Road Runner. Gave me a ride.. ruined me for life. I latter in life in the mid 80s to a 69 RR to a best of 10.69 and 124.7 mph. Stick car. The stick made it interesting. With all the negative automatic guys on my 15 pass or so ever, I won my first money program. That was when it was a reman engine 383 . First pass 13.78. 2nd pass the 3.90 gears gave up. Found some gears 4.56 since I was going drag the car the very next Wednesday. I runnered up not caring if i broke out in the trophy nite at 12.92. 3 days latter the money program. The next 2 plus seconds to some serious effort. Learned alot. Stock suspension parts to 11.38 with a 440 6 pac engine with just a torker tm7 and a comp cam 485 lift to a best of 11.38 with leaf springs stock 18 spline trans. A stock dana 60 with 4.10 stock gears. They tested those A12 cars a whole lot slower. It was 200 lbs lighter battery in the trunk. 10inch slicks. Was tough to launch Thanks for the reply

[@ken-ul7kf]

Hey how did the upper manifold come out

[@thomasbeyer]

It only made 5 more HP at the upper rpm over my ported kegger with the smaller cam. I'm sure with the cam I have now it would make a larger difference.

[@randallmason9687]

What are You using to tune the engine after the mods?

[@thomasbeyer]

Hptuners

[@MGauto916]

Edelbrock 28155 Super Victor EFI Intake Manifold

[@thomasbeyer]

That intake is for the la bolt pattern

[@MGauto916]

@@thomasbeyer oh ok I see now.. how much u want for that custom intake manifold u have? Lol

[@thomasbeyer]

@@MGauto916 lol way too much work to do it again. Hughes sells the same intake that is already set up for EFI but they are almost always backordered.

[@MGauto916]

I thought that Hughes discontinued the intake manifold

[@thomasbeyer]

@@MGauto916 it just says temporarily out of stock on their site and $695

[@4x4ManiacBadTimeGarage]

i need an intake for my 5.9 zj, don't care if it's a m1, air gap or whtaever...do you have anything for sale? thanks

[@thomasbeyer]

I don't currently. All IV got is stock keggers.

[@4x4ManiacBadTimeGarage]

@@thomasbeyer i see, thanks anyway. let me know if something comes up.

[@garybenoit3220]

Just go with the Hughes intake

[@thomasbeyer]

At the time this was made the Hughes was backordered for 6 months. And I still saved a couple hundred bucks.

[@garybenoit3220]

@@thomasbeyer I agree with that, however look forward to seeing it on the motor running

[@thomasbeyer]

@@garybenoit3220 it's been on for about a year and a half now.

[@garybenoit3220]

@@thomasbeyer haven’t seen it, will look, I get so much stuff in my feeds it’s crazy keeping up with everything

[@thomasbeyer]

@@garybenoit3220 I didn't make an install video I dynoed it with the small cam it only picked up about 5hp at the higher RPMs. And then life got too busy there for awhile. It's on when I did the 236/242 cam install and Dyno video.

[@gregstinnett73]

Hey bro where did you get your intake?

[@thomasbeyer]

It's an Edelbrock rpm air gap purchased on Amazon

[@1991tommygun]

Hughes makes an intake with edelbrock for these engines....direct swap

[@thomasbeyer]

And when I built this they were backordered for 7 months and I still saved $200.......

[@ken-ul7kf]

Hey how did it work

[@thomasbeyer]

It worked out fine. Gained a little HP up top with no measurable loss down low. Way easier to work on too.

[@christopher5585]

You have a work area.. Why are you putting that expensive new Intake on the floor ?

[@TheProchargedmopar]

You going to NNN in Sikeston??

[@thomasbeyer]

What's that?

[@TheProchargedmopar]

@@thomasbeyer No Name Nationals, do a quick google or KZbin search? Watch the UTG callout vid.

[@thomasbeyer]

@@TheProchargedmopar it's far enough out I could probably do that

[@TheProchargedmopar]

@@thomasbeyer After watching lots of vids on No Names trying to get to 500 subs it looks like it will be big fun. I'm getting 4 spectator tickets and I can always upgrade later if I make the cut. 😎

[@svr27rr87]

Awesome workmenship .. thats me & my other real friends that are family in the machine's shop ive worked in..i learned a very long time ago how to do more then just push paper..lol..can u please PM me on my facebook the part number of that intake manifold??when u get a chance..

[@thomasbeyer]

Sent it your way

[@thomasbeyer]

Edelbrock 7577

[@bryancarey8166]

I was trying to see if you had an email or if you have something on Facebook but I have a M1 intake that I am trying to get rid of but I am also looking for another one but they call it a Zeus intake with the EGR let me know if you know or want to trade :)

[@thomasbeyer]

IV not seen a Zeus yet. I'm keeping an eye out for a 4brl m1

[@bryancarey8166]

@@thomasbeyer I have that M1 EFI manifold at home just wanting to trade for a M1 with the egr on it so I can among one California

[@dennisleroy4648]

Can I buy one from u

[@thomasbeyer]

I could make another one but by time I charged enough to be worth doing you could buy one from Hughes engines.

[@JK-op7bp]

I hate the kegger intake, bad design that caused plenum leak issues the resulted in oil consumption and fouling plugs/ misfires. And it’s just big and ugly looks like a bees nest.