Canada's Electric School Bus Revolution

[@oh8wingman]

Before you get all excited remember, the City of Edmonton has 60 electric buses in the transit fleet. They have proven to be virtually useless, particularly in the winter months. The problem lies in range. While school buses do not need long range capabilities because their routes are relatively short and they can recharge between the two times per day that they are needed, transit buses must run continually for at least 8 continual hours per day. They also must travel considerably more kilometers. In the summer months they can accomplish their task but come winter, well, that's a different story. The City has also had problems keeping the batteries from freezing which ruins them and they require replacement. They did retrofit thermo blankets on some buses but that did not cure the problem. In addition, unlike diesel buses that can be refueled and dispatched in less than an hour, electric buses require a 10 to 15 hour full recharge time to be ready for one shift. Since the City runs buses up to 20 hours a day, you will need to have a lot more buses on hand to keep service at it's present levels. Electric vehicles are still in their infancy. Until they can get their range way up and recharge times way down, they will not be ready to take over anytime soon. For transit purposes hybrids would make a lot more sense.

[@greenenergyfutures]

@@oh8wingman the City did their homework and made a bad bet. These buses address most of the flaws of the Proterra buses the City bought. This company has gone slow. First bus in 2017, then their second in 2023. They use readily available parts (big problem with the Proterra buses) and they’re built for the Canadian winter performing better than the diesel buses.

[@juliogonzo2718]

​@@greenenergyfuturesmaybe for a school bus, but there is no electric city transit bus that is not a major compromise. Freind of mine was involved in Toronto Transit Commision trials of proterra, BYD, and I think New Flyer. All three had problems. To top it off they were all diesel powered (and from transformer losses likely less efficiently) as the charging station was powered by a 40' Cat shipping container genset. the infrastructure didn't support charging using the power grid. EVs have a long way to go before they will be better than ICE. No doubt one day they could be, but that day isn't today.

[@oh8wingman]

@@greenenergyfutures They still don't have the range required and charge times and the power requirements to any one bus barn are too great without massive changes to the electrical grid. There are some who are working on controlled discharge capacitors to eliminate batteries altogether but they are a long ways off right now. Capacitors can be recharged in minutes instead of hours.

[@3089280288]

​@@oh8wingman and be drained in minutes as well

[@robertmoulton2656]

Let's endanger our children even more.

[@UTUBESUXS2024]

Check out Edison moters. They built a hybrid logging truck. They recently hooked up with a oilfield outfit to build them hybrid trucks.

[@Jon-fs2zj]

Better make sure no salt water gets near those batteries You'll have a bunch of barbecued kids

[@chriskimber7179]

Let me show u alberta on a map...

[@Neojhun]

Stop with the wacky absurd nonsense. "barbecued kids" is just deranged fear mongering. I love how propagandist claimed EVs would be destroyed by salt water in the North Carolina APPALACHIA floods.

[@Neojhun]

@@chriskimber7179 Jon should buy some Ocean Front Property in Arizona.

[@larryspiller15]

😂😂😂😂​@@chriskimber7179

[@busog97641]

Thank you for posting this video.

[@itsJayden461]

2:55 If you put a generator in the front finding a way to charge it won't be an issue

[@hitekredneck109]

Lmfao

[@chriskimber7179]

We've got a couple in the fleet here in kootenays Apparently they've been great! Much easier to start at -20c

[@mikeklein4949]

I believe Oakland, California uses only electric school buses in its mild climate and they are all vehicle to grid within the city, offering power when the other sources of power cannot meet demand for whatever reason.

[@ryuuguu01]

Depending on how long the manufacturing of the busses is the bottleneck, it may be possible to retrofit older busses with E-axles. Edison Motors ( in BC ) will be training garages in 2025 to install retrofit fit kits for trucks ranging from F-450s to multi-trailer logging semis. So that could be another source starting in 2026.

[@kazgoz2529]

Edison motors is developing a half ton electric pickup with Boss Garage.

[@ryuuguu01]

@@kazgoz2529 They are developing a retrofit kit with DeBoss Garage for F-450 and I believe they have already finished the test conversion a pickup. The retrofit kit could be installed in a half-ton but they are targeting larger vocational trucks, not smaller vehicles.They are building 4 or 5 Semi sized work vehicles. eg. Semis and a snowplow. They have not said what the other 2 or 3 large vehicles they building will be. They also have the ability to retrofit semis and talking about powered trailers with e-axels.

[@chrystineleibel608]

How much carbon was produced manufacturing the battery for this monstrosity.

[@Neojhun]

A small fraction compared the powering a 100% Diesel fueled bus. What the frack do think Diesel is made out of, it's a Hyrdo CARBON. These buses have cost cutting measure SMALL Battery for their purpose. Just 2x Tesla car batteries. So very far from a monstrosity.

[@chriskimber7179]

do you ask the same question when you fill up your gas tank? you should gasoline does not, in fact, come from unicorn tears...

[@MarkWickenheiser-yg7ny]

@@Neojhun I see you have had way too much green cool aid! Before you spout off, you really should do some research on EV's in general.

[@KJSvitko]

The future is electric. No noise, no emissions, low fuel costs and low maintenance costs. No stinky and unhealthy diesel fumes. No noise means more peace and quiet.

[@Neojhun]

Nah the best benefit is PERFORMANCE. Electric commercial vehicle just have a superior drive train that is more powerful and quicker response than big diesel engines. Most cost restrained City buses have diesel drive train which feel like they are choking climbing up a steep hill. Meanwhile BEV Bus are like mountain goats, some are even used on Ski Resorts for that purpose. This is SAFETY benefit when the vehicle can predictably and effectively accelerate on command.

[@annneumeyer3615]

Have you ever been in a school bus? There is no peace or quiet. Motor aside.

[@MarkWickenheiser-yg7ny]

@@Neojhun Cool aid drinker! You try to sound so intelligent, but your as dumb as a stump........

[@michaelsmith9590]

KJSvitko's comment: "The future is electric" could have been taken from a 1910 newspaper article to describe BCER - British Columbia Electric Railways' then new passenger train service to the Fraser River Valley communities.

[@bobmatt1966]

How much fossil fuels get burnt generating the electricity to charge this electric bus?

[@WANDERER0070]

Quebec uses 100% hydro dams 😂

[@Neojhun]

Massively less than 100% Diesel. Albert's Grid is 17% Coal and 64% Gas. Combined cycle power plant is massively more efficient than a vehicle engine. Vehicle Engines are about 60% the efficiency of Combined cycle power plant.

[@hitekredneck109]

And who can tell me the (in)efficiency numbers of charging batteries? I'll wait

[@MarkWickenheiser-yg7ny]

@@hitekredneck109 Hey Hitch, I see none of these cooled drinking clowns have gotten back to you.

[@victorseal9047]

Plenty of garbage in the comments from people who have never had an electric vehicle. 😮. My town and the drivers here in Québec province are over the moon with their Lion E buses. 😅

[@greenenergyfutures]

This is why we chose this story. Jeremy has had 7 years experience with these electric buses and put simply they are working better than their diesel buses due to a bunch of smart design features in these Canadian buses.

[@leonardwhittemore5805]

To bad lion is going out of business.

[@greenenergyfutures]

@ Sad. And yet demand is strong.

[@scottbrown9521]

I think it's great you doing some thing different . Pretty cool and interesting . Also helping with Canada jobs. Also people forget of fuel Shortages that happened in past . But with new technology people need be smart and safer in case of emergency. Great that thinking of future.

[@liberatetheforks]

We use some electric busses for school here in PEI, allegedly half the fleet is out for service at any time. They're not reliable. A byproduct of gas/diesel engines is heat. These things take electricity to make their own heat. Good luck using these in Nunavut

[@UnyonRing]

well we can see who didn't make it past half way through the video and had to post a hate comment...

[@greenenergyfutures]

@@liberatetheforks not the experience here.

[@Neojhun]

Yet BEV cars are popular in the ARCTIC CIRCLE.

[@greenenergyfutures]

All buses or cars are not created equally. These electric buses perform well in cold Canadian winters, even better than diesel buses. Jeremy from our story has had 7 years experience and has weathered -40 and many other circumstances and his view is the bus is a better bus. www.greenenergyfutures.ca/episode/390-electric-bus-virtual-power-plants-its-happening

[@justasimplelife3857]

How do you charge these buses? Through the power grid which is run by coal at the power plant.

[@chriskimber7179]

Still cleaner than diesel And we don't sit the kids on top of the powerplant Maybe the windiest sunniest province in the country could produce power some other way...

[@justasimplelife3857]

@@chriskimber7179 Electric vehicles are a scam, a passing fad, dangerous, bad for the environment.

[@Neojhun]

"grid which is run by coal at the power plant" Alberta's Grid mix is only 17% COAL. Still massively cleaner than 100% Diesel.

[@greenenergyfutures]

@@justasimplelife3857 coal has been phased out in Alberta.

[@justasimplelife3857]

@@Neojhun Did you understand my comment?

[@bige8549]

They should add solar to the roofs, if not for charging the battery then to work the climate at least. Sono Motors in Germany offers kits for this, for example.

[@michaelsmith9590]

The manager (owner) of the school bus company "...drove the bus (shown) from Quebec..." to Alberta ? How many re-charge stops and how long for each did it take during his trip? Further, if Alberta communities are subject to high water floods, do those waters reach the battery level inside the bus??

[@kellssheehan8578]

Hope the batteries don’t catch on fire.

[@Neojhun]

No to need hope, statistical facts prove it is extremely unlikely. A BMW 6cylinder Diesel is way more fire prone to the point it was RECALLED.

[@kellssheehan8578]

@ But try to put out the fire.

[@larryspiller15]

​@@kellssheehan8578hur dur dur

[@justasimplelife3857]

Electric vehicles are not zero emissions, that's a lie. You're putting kids lives at stake riding electric buses. People, wake up. Electric vehicles are far more dangerous than internal combustion engines. Electric vehicles are more expensive to produce than internal combustion engines.

[@chriskimber7179]

Everything u said here is false While I'm correcting you, the earth is round, chemtrails are real and 1x1 is still 1

[@Neojhun]

"far more dangerous than internal combustion engines" That is just deranged wacky lies. Statistically far less likely to ever start a fire and most BEVs perform far superior in a crash. Due to PHYSICS they are a safer vehicle. But you don't care about scientific facts, you just want dramatic fear mongering.

[@larryspiller15]

-They emit less co2 over the lifetime of the vehicle. -They catch fire 1/10th as often as the gasoline/diesel equivalent. -They cost less to run and maintain. Irrefutable facts that have been avaliable for close to a decade. The meme you read on Facebook isn't reality.

[@justasimplelife3857]

@@larryspiller15 What meme are you talking? Sorry you're wrong.

[@justasimplelife3857]

@@larryspiller15 You do know that plants rely on co2 to live.

[@larrymacdonald4241]

Cold climate should not matter, they sell heating pads for RV batteries..... 12v various sizes.... but you would of course have to increase capacity to power the pads, insulate battery boxes in winter... the new LTO cells are not affected by cold as much as other chemistries, li-po, li-ion, lifepo4... and you can bolt them together, no special spot welder needed, no spot welder consumables, tips... no grinding tips...

[@greenenergyfutures]

These buses have battery warmers and thanks to the compromise of using a diesel powered heating system these buses are actually warm in the winter in contrast to diesel buses. This company has used their electric bus as a warming station while trying to boost diesel buses in cold weather.

[@rodkeh]

Why would any responsible parent allow their children to even get on a bus that is an incendiary time bomb waiting to explode or burst into flame and burn their children to a cinder? What is wrong with these people? The parents will be just as much to blame as the authors of the travesty, when their children are murdered by this technology! Shame on all of you! You don't deserve to have children!

[@charlesb4267]

That was the first thing that came to mind, when will one get into an accident or just that the battery decides its time to go into thermal runaway. But as to the parents, they like everyone will be conned into believing its perfectly safe. I wonder how insanely expensive these school buses will be and how short the battery life will be and the insane replacement cost of batteries.

[@rodkeh]

@@charlesb4267 Like all lithium batteries, its' life expectancy will be about 5 years to replacement but they won't replace them because they will still be working fine and at $200,000.00 or more, they will not want to fix it if it works. The problem is that it is just a matter of time before the batteries degrade and it is a matter of "when" not "if" or someone pushes the limit on its' use and "Bimbo!", we have runaway. The replacement cost on the children however is a much greater price to pay. It should only take a few parents to withdraw consent for their children to ride before more parents start to understand the threat...

[@Neojhun]

What a bunch of insane deranged fear mongering. You do realize DIESEL City buses have a horrifically bad track record. They have a higher fire occurrence than gas guzzling cars. BEVs are multiple times less likely to ever even start a fire. The real travesty is fear mongering propagandist resorting to dramatic and emotional lies. Ignoring statistical facts.

[@Neojhun]

@@charlesb4267 "accident or just that the battery decides its time to go into thermal runaway" Yet there are soo many BEVs in the junk yard who have been horrific crashes that Insurance writes them off. Not only does the battery not go into thermal runaway. The EV Conversion and DIY Energy Storage sector scavenges those power trains to be repurposed for other builds. That is how companies like EV West, Electric Classic Cars, Zero EV source parts. But you don't care about physical facts.

[@Neojhun]

@@charlesb4267 "how short the battery life will be" Yeah that part is not good, about 15 to 17 years lifespan only. FYI Rav4 EV from Y2K era with Nickel Metal Hydride battery only survived on average 17 years. Lithium Ion heated and cooled batteries are not any better. That 20 years lifespan barrier is the last problem with EVs.

[@mitchelberube7618]

How are those eletric busses working out for Lion now

[@grahamweeks7764]

150 to 170 km per charge, and 6 hours to charge. Seems ok, but that is warm driving figures. No facts about the winter months and using the heater on high. I took a Rural bus for two years, and if our driver wasn't a awesome driver, we could have been stranded on side roads for an hour or two. I would also like to ask how zero emission works with the production of the batteries, and the rest of the bus parts? It don't count until it is done I guess?

[@greenenergyfutures]

Check out our blog for a little more information. He talks about the battery warmers and very little loss of range in the winter thanks to the diesel cabin heaters that don't draw from the drive battery. A reasonable compromise on going electric. www.greenenergyfutures.ca/episode/389-electric-school-bus-in-the-cold-canadian-north

[@b0rd3n]

Go David, Go QC e-buses production! Maybe tour the factory?? i can help with translation but i doubt it would be necessary!

[@DoubleG7793]

It's gonna be another Bombardier never ever ever operate in the green and constantly get bailed out Quebec is terrible at managing companies

[@b0rd3n]

@DoubleG7793 yah, the government much more than the people in my opinion but you are right...

[@geedubb-q1u]

Edmonton Alberta’s try with electric busses has been a horrendous failure. So now why don’t we put children at risk in freezing cold temps. Asinine comes to mind.

[@greenenergyfutures]

Insane would be going back to horse and buggies. These buses are much warmer than traditional diesel buses which are actually pretty chilly inside on cold days. Ask any bus driver. They are cheaper to operate, maintain and they work when its really cold thanks to battery warmers and the diesel heating systems which helps the buses preserve their range in cold weather.

[@gusbarber00]

In the video the guy mentions that they have to spread the busses around as the grid can't support all of them charging at once in the smart spot. If they had some sort of battery system that gets trickled charged from the grid change this scenario?

[@grahammonk8013]

@gusbarber00 I think yes, but suitably sized system is going to cost lots. It could make sense right now, if they could arrange things to make some money by trading electricity back to and fro with the grid. This sort of thing is going to improve as the grid operators and other parties gear up.

[@gusbarber00]

@grahammonk8013 Hmm this makes sense. I didn't say it in my post but I was thinking into the future. It sounds like it makes more financial sense to spread the busses out to avoid the grid issues but when his electric fleet gets bigger it would obviously become harder to spread them out.

[@superspeeder]

@@gusbarber00they are already charging at a fairly slow rate; 6 hours to fully charge from empty, which still requires 80A (@ 240V I assume). For context, most homes only have a 100A service, so grid infrastructure for a whole bus fleet would not be too different than that for a small subdivision… which requires some serious planning (and cost).

[@nickaston1965]

Great Video. I wonder how much diesel has been saved.

[@hoboonwheels9289]

The other reason not to keep them together is not to lose the whole fleet when one spontaneously combusts.

[@MjMurphy777]

This is exciting news! The electric revolution is underway. So happy and surprised to see this transition in Alberta.🎉

[@lawrencehalpin6611]

So you still need diesel. Now you have to go fill it up and plug it in. They could use diesel heaters on regular buses and have warm buses in the morning. They have a ways to go yet.

[@chriskimber7179]

U gotta plug in diesel too Otherwise they don't start in the cold

[@greenenergyfutures]

@@lawrencehalpin6611 it’s a great first step for the Canadian winter. They use their electric buses as warming stations when they are boosting their diesel buses. Their entire drive power is electric. It’s a smart compromise.

[@lawrencehalpin6611]

@@greenenergyfutures But you still need diesel for heating. and they only have 175 kilometer range and not enough power to charge them. So a long ways to go. It will take years to get that all figured out.

[@lawrencehalpin6611]

@@chriskimber7179 True. You could just run the same heater as the electric and they would start.

[@Neojhun]

@@lawrencehalpin6611 "175 kilometer range and not enough" Umm that covers a whole driving stint for In City bus routes. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

[@ianweniger6620]

So... The buses move with electric motors but STILL need diesel to function on cold days. When did we stop using block heaters?

[@Neojhun]

"STILL need diesel to function on cold days" WRONG not to function, just to make it comfortable for the Occupants. Basically every modern BEV has a similar system to Block Heaters, they can heat them selves electrically from Charger Power. On consumer EV cars you can either set a timer or trigger it remotely from an App. The amount of diesel used for heating is a tiny fraction compared the massive amount of energy required to actually move a large vehicle. The difference in diesel usages is a tiny fraction less.

[@pipe2devnull]

Just for heating.

[@chriskimber7179]

Diesel bus won't even start on cold days without being plugged in

[@phillipbertrand8514]

Talk to Edison motors. I believe they have the solution.

[@no1be4me2]

How much energy does it take to make the mortar and batteries and then when you recycle it how much energy does it take but you can't recycle everything what happens when wind blows up and there's lawsuits flying around because of kids that lost their life

[@Neojhun]

What a bunch of absurd nonsense. How do you RECYCLE BURNT Diesel fuel? You don't care about that.

[@greenenergyfutures]

Electric vehicles are safter statistically, and although the embodied carbon is higher making the battery systems, the over all emissions are far lower for electric buses. Batteries are already being recycled by LiCycle a company based in Ontario.

[@terryz512]

Are you going to put your kids lives at risk of being burned to death in a crash?

[@greenenergyfutures]

ICE vehicles are far more likely to catch fire and they have a large load of flammable liquid on board. www.greencarstocks.com/statistics-show-ice-vehicle-fires-20-time-more-likely-than-ev-fires/#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20electric%20vehicle%20fires,catch%20fire%20compared%20to%20EVs.

[@MarkWickenheiser-yg7ny]

Hey Cool aid drinker, why don't you make a video after a long cold winter in Alberta. Have you not talked to the city of Edmonton re: 60 electric buses that no longer work and are basically scrap metal. What a waste of money, I would not let my kid get on these fire death traps!

[@greenenergyfutures]

We deal with winter in the story. And yes its unfortunate that Edmonton had a bad experience with a California bus manufacturer that has gone bankrupt leaving behind substandard products without readilly available parts. In the car world there are Ladas (from days of old) and modern EVs which are working great for the most part. We deal with most of these issues in our blog www.greenenergyfutures.ca/episode/390-electric-bus-virtual-power-plants-its-happening

[@enterprisencc1701z]

Edison motors has a much better idea.And we don't need to change our infrastructure to do it

[@hitekredneck109]

Ok. For all the smooth brained ev npc's out there....there is NO such thing as ZERO EMISSION!! Just look up the definition of emission. The wiring,components,motors etc emit heat!! Just like every other form of energy.

[@ericmckenzie4045]

Wait till the batteries explode and your child is stuck on that bus. No thanks

[@Neojhun]

You specifically stated "batteries EXPLODE" which is nearly IMPOSSIBLE. Yes slow flaming fire is extremely unlikely possible. But concussive explosions is Implausible.

[@greenenergyfutures]

Electric vehicles are far less likely to catch fire than an internal combustion engine vehicle and the the latter also has a large tank of fuel available when they catch fire.

[@bombardier3qtrlbpsi]

😂😂😂ok

[@fourfortyroadrunner6701]

You people are so full of nonsense it is unbelievable. First item is "green." REALLY? WHERE DO THE EVs get the energy for recharging? FROM THE GRID. The grid is not green and never will be. Next, battery fires. Extrapolate the battery fires we have heard in the news, snap your fingers and imagine a world where ALL vehicles are EV. People are going to die. IT IS NOT cheaper to convert energy 2 or 3 or 4 times to different forms, AKA take some current grid sourced energy, whether coal, oil, NG, or even solar or wind, and charge up a battery. last is energy density, and the "refuel" time.

[@Neojhun]

LOL You copy and pasted a wacko insane fear mongering scripts. Then also accidentally used Justification in your word processor. Those are very noob troll farm moves. I bet you can't even respond comments, just copy and paste spamming.

[@no1be4me2]

was child slave labor used to get the material to make the batteries

[@Neojhun]

LiFePO4 uses ZERO Cobalt. The biggest supplier of Lithium to EV industry by a big lead is AUSTRALIA. No child slave labor required. Meanwhile the catalytic converter in you vehicle and catalyst to refine crude oil into light fuels. Requires far more exotic metals than these battery chemistries. You don't care about the child slave labor required for your Gas Guzzler do you?

[@wageslaveuranus9596]

lol . how much carbon dioxide does it take to charge this monstrosity ? .smh . fp .

[@chrystineleibel608]

Or manufacture it

[@chriskimber7179]

Less than diesel Way less Cheaper to run Cheaper to maintain Better to drive Cleaner air for kids That's what winning looks like

[@WANDERER0070]

100% hydrodam in Quebec 😂😂

[@Neojhun]

Considering Albtera's Grid is 17% Coal and 64% Gas. FYI VW Diesel Gate was NOT about CO2 GHG. It was healt damaging toxic emissions. 64% Gas is massively cleaner than 100% Diesel. Vehicle engines are also about 60% the Efficiency of a Combined Cycle Gas Power Plant.

[@greenenergyfutures]

@@Neojhun Alberta has no coal-fired electricity as of last year.

[@DoubleG7793]

Buy Edison Motors not some bullshit from Quebec