3DS Max Tutorial - High Poly to Low Poly Texture Baking

In this video I explain how to bake Normal, Height, and Ambient Occlusion Maps from a High Poly Model to a Low Poly Asset using the "Projection" modifier for use in game engines like Unreal Engine 4, Unity, or Cry Engine. The High Poly Model was created in Mudbox. You could also use ZBrush or Blender's Sculpting capability to essentially do the same thing as shown here.
#3DSMax #Tutorial #GameDesign

[@WraithDesignz]

Something I sadly just noticed is that at 4:18, under the render settings, and where it says "Area" under Filter, you may want to change it to be "Catmull-Rom". Both can work, but I find Catmull-Rom yields a bit better results. :D Also, under the "Bump" slot under "Maps" at 5:54 you don't always have to use say, 100 or higher, sometimes it may be too much in the viewport and dropping the number down may make it look better. If it is too high it may give it an overly shadowed look, so play around with it as you see fit.

[@manna6912]

this is exactly what i was looking for last 6 hours.. thankxx alot for the video..

[@WraithDesignz]

I'm glad I could help! I know the feeling as well. :)

[@viktorpavlovych]

Thanks man, really useful!

[@WraithDesignz]

No problem, glad it could help!

[@peruvianpuffpepper904]

What if I already textured the low poly? It messed with my texturss

[@WraithDesignz]

Save the low poly diffuse baked UV first somewhere. It should not have messed with your textures if you did it properly. This is why I use a grey color to do this in the video. Capture the normal map without texturing the model first if you can, but if you already did it, you just need to bake a simple diffuse map UV somewhere you will remember, and once that is done, just coat the model in grey, and then perform the normal map bake here. As long as you have a High Poly and a properly UV Unwrapped Low Poly, you should be fine. You can also use Substance Painter to bake the normal maps if you wish as well and if that is easier. I will make a video soon showing how that is done because sometimes using that program may yield better results, and you do not always have to use a high poly to do the bake. This method here in this video, is just one of many ways it can be done. I would probably make it a habit if you can, to bake a normal map first, then texture the model with a diffuse. Substance Painter is cool because you can bake a low poly without a high poly, it may not look as good right off the bat, but it will give you something. Best method using Substance Painter I just recently found, is that each material layer has both "Normal Map" and "Base Color" slots that if used right, can yield you an AMAZING final Normal Map bake. So you would import a seamless texture diffuse, with a normal map that matches it. This can easily be done using say, Quixel Mixer, which exports each material with its own normal map for that seamless texture, or you can use say, Shader Map 4 (Free to use, but you need pro to bake out Roughness Maps), which will take a diffuse texture or UV, and create a normal map from it. When you use a seamless high detail material within Substance Painter, input into the layers Base color slot, and then compliment that same texture, with the normal map of it within the Normal Map slot, for each part you texture on the model, when you bake out the final bake UVS, the detail from each material in each layer, including the normal maps, will create one high quality Normal Map, Ambient Occlusion map using the normal map details to make it look even better, as well as curvature maps and world space normal maps, all retaining all detail of the models material layers using normal maps of their own. If you take a look at this video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHbYgaSBoq98etE I created this models textures doing just what I explain above. I ended up waiting to paint any other details AFTER including materials and normal maps for each material layer, made sure each was sized properly to my liking, and THEN baked out all the final maps before doing any painting or stuff like that, which gave it the detailed normal map, and AO maps you see later in the video. I then took the Normal Map UV bake, re-imported it into Substance Painter, removed all the normal maps from each material layer in the stack, and re-baked all final bake maps (unchecking Normal Map as I just imported it), and all follow maps baked utilizing this new normal map UV, took on all details of that normal map, into the ambient occlusion, curvature maps, and world space normal maps, that then worked perfectly to add details, decals, painted details etc, and made utilizing mask generators a breeze. In 3DS Max I made the Low Poly first, then simply added details to it to make a high poly, made sure they were the same size best to my ability, and brought them into Substance Painter to then bake the maps. I did it also, by just using the low poly as the high poly to bake, to test things out both ways, and because I did what I just mentioned above with each material layer, giving the base color and normal map slots, a seamless texture to fit those slots, it took all the detail from them and made using a high poly pretty pointless. Hopefully this makes sense, but if not, I will be making a tutorial soon on how to do it using Substance Painter. The video above I made of a Barrel Asset using the normal map bake from all the material layers textures, and their own normal maps to create this final baked out Normal Map UV, can be viewed here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHbYgaSBoq98etE The Normal Map can be viewed at 2:51 of that video. You will see what I mean about how crisp and clean the Normal Bake was.

[@peruvianpuffpepper904]

@@WraithDesignz I'm sorry is there a video explaining this, because I am a bit lost here

[@Shortyplayz]

What is the purpose of doing this? I’m kinda new to 3d modelling

[@FoxyLollyy]

optimization

[@Shortyplayz]

@@FoxyLollyy thank you for the help

[@WraithDesignz]

Like foxylollyjpg said below, optimization, mainly for real time video games, but can also help in CGI renderings. 3DS Max 2021 and 2022 now have an amazing modifier plugin called "Retopology" that can eliminate the need to export into zBrush just to get a low poly without doing by hand retopology, but that modifier is best used in unison with say, subdivision. Arrimus 3D, a youtuber here on KZbin has an amazing tutorial about it in this link, I hope it helps: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXWVeJyXetpskLM Sorry took so long to reply, some of my notifications have not been coming in lately so I did not see this comment.

[@chaindrums]

Is this more efective and less problematic than just baking the high poly to low poly on substance painter?

[@WraithDesignz]

Well it depends on what would be considered problematic, but yes, it is the most efficient way to get a full, proper bake. Substance Painter does not have the same settings most 3D programs have to be able to have as much customization during the bake process. It may take a bit longer, but the results are totally worth it. There won't be any grainy patterns for instance with Normal Maps or AO bakes like what can happen in Substance Painter bakes. If you check Substance Painter channels, look at AO, you will see it looks lower quality, and it has a grainy look because it lacks the ability to have as many or more rays to bake with, or the type of ambient light per pixel, or take more time to get the nooks and crannies. I also found that Substance Painter, to get good Normal Maps, you need to use a cage, were here, you do as well but have way more control on that cage within the program itself. Substance Painter even with a cage, does it quick, while say Maya, or 3DS Max, takes a bit more time to again, make sure all detail in it's entirety and in no way compressed, is applied to the low poly. Again, It all depends on what your trying to do. If you got time, take more time, and use 3DS Max or Maya to bake, if you are short on time, and you can take a hit to quality, then use substance Painter. :)

[@chaindrums]

@@WraithDesignz Thank you so much for the detailed explanation. I am a total noob and have been learning alone with youtube and some udemy courses. I am still trying to figure out a good workflow for me and your explanation makes a lot of sense. Yes, I am well aware of jagged and low res substance painter bakes but had no idea how to fix it, now I know how! Thanks!

[@WraithDesignz]

@@chaindrums No problem! Glad I could help! Sorry took so long to reply, my comment notifications somehow keep getting turned off. :P

[@WraithDesignz]

​@@chaindrums I do want to update my response to you on if it may be better to bake in Substance Painter or not, as I have found it can be depending on what your trying to accomplish. If you use seamless textures to put say, into "Base Color" slots under each material layer, and you also put a matching Normal Map of that same seamless texture under the "Normal Map" slot, then just bake out the final Normal Map UV map and save it somewhere, then reimport that back into Substance Painter, (This before you bake all other maps like curvature, ao, world space, etc) I found that the details for each following texture map utilizing the normal maps under texture layers, will take detail from the normal map uv, and add them to say curvature, ao, and world space, giving far more detail for generators to work with. So really, it is up to your preference. You could also do the same technique in 3DS Max, each material you texture the model with, must have a complimenting normal map aka bump map, in the proper bump slot, and then do a final Normal Map UV bake of the entire model, and it should also capture all details of each texture/material that had its own normal maps, and bake that into itself as if you baked from a sculpted high poly. This works if you use a high poly to bake or just use the low poly to bake unto itself, the only thing you may need to do is combine the high poly sculpts normal map, with the textured nomral map result explained above, using each layers own normal maps for the textures used, if you use them. You may have to flip the normal afterwards for use in a game engine, as the projection will project back a flipped normal due to how rays work when bouncing back onto the low poly, but that can easily be achieved by flipping the green channel in UE4, or whatever other channel depending on what game engine you utilize your model and normal maps in. Hopefully this makes sense, but if not, I will be making a tutorial soon showing how this is done and exactly what I mean. But here, I will list the steps I took so it may clear up any confussion: 1.) Import High Poly Model and Low Poly. 2.) Before you bake any other Maps for use with painting and generators later, simply just bake a Normal Map UV only. This can be done before the next steps, to get just a raw model Normal Map bake, and can be combined with the later Normal Map bake to add even more realistic details. 3.) Now, clear all slots under the "Texture Set Settings" tab, and under "Mesh Maps" (Not the ones under the "Layers" tab, you use to paint, and add details with during the workflow). 4.) Now, you can detail the model say, using a bake ID map, or generate a random one within Substance Painter. You do not need one per say, but it helps to texture the model quicker for the next steps. 5.) Import seamless textures to texture each part of your model and make sure you have created a matching seamless Normal Map for each texture, we will need both these in the next step. 6.) Once the model has been textured, (This can be done quick by putting seamless textures that are imported, into the "Base Color" slot of a Layer or Fill Layer), you need to use the same textures seamless normal Map, to input into the "Normal Map" slot under it. This will give it the Normal Detail we need to create a amazing final Normal Map UV bake, of which we will reimport to then bake all other maps with the same details such as Curvature, Ambient Occlusion, Height, and World Space, under the "Texture Set Settings" tab. 7.) Again, we will only bake out a Normal Map UV for this step like we did before, except this Normal Map UV will capture all the details of each separate texture layers normal maps within itself, creating the final Normal Map UV to use generators with properly, as if we used it from a fully sculpted High Poly, and not just a High Poly via Polygon Count that may be somewhat smooth. Hopefully that made sense. (Now, hopefully the exported Normal Map UVs you named differently, and saved in the same folder, so you can look at each one, but also be able to combine them later, unless you choose to do so within Substance Painter under the "Normal Map" parameters when you bake texture maps out. IT can be done this way, but sometimes you may want to use photoshop or another program to take a closer look at each map first, so you see what they look like and how it may work combined.) 8.) Now, Re-Import the Normal Map UV you just exported, once that is ready on the texture shelf, look under the "Texture Set Settings", and delete the Normal Map that is located there, and put into it the Normal Map UV we just imported, then, click on "Bake Mesh Maps" like we did before. Make sure Rays for each map is maxed out, should go up to 256 rays, and apply to all if you have multiple parts of your mesh. Then Bake. 9.) Watch the bake closely, you will see the details from the latest Normal Map UV bake you just imported, will now be seen within the Ambient Occlusion Maps, World Space Normals Map, Curvature Maps, and Height Maps. Unlike the very first Normal Map UV bake we id at the beginning that just was baking curved edges, this will capture ALL details from each texture layer's diffuse and normal maps, and combine them into one nice looking final Normal Map UV for all generators to fully utilize. This method works best if your simply doing use low poly mesh to bake only, but it can work with a sculpted high poly mesh, you will just have to combine both Normal Map UV bakes properly to capture texture details AND curvature details of both bakes. You can see the result of these steps within this video of a Old Wooden Barrel I made here, both at 1:17 and at 2:51. You will also see the AO bakes details taken from the final Normal Map UV bake, giving it more nooks and crannies to shade, instead of just curved areas or deep recesses of the high poly model without texture details. ​ kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHbYgaSBoq98etE Hopefully these steps cleared up what I was trying to explain. :D Fun how many ways you can accomplish the same goals.

[@chaindrums]

@@WraithDesignz Thanks for the awesome update!!!

[@digimaks]

Is it necessary to switch to scanline?? What if I want AO and Curvature map too?

[@WraithDesignz]

I'm not familiar with doing curvatures in 3DS Max atm using this method, but I guess if the same workflow works with another method other then scanline, I don't see there being an issue. If they can render all the other texture maps like scanline does, you should be fine in theory. I know that I was able to project AO onto a model using scanline much like how I did a Normal Map, only thing that I changed was the light render from "None" to "Light Tracer" and then bumped up quality to "1.0" and then made sure that "Filter" was changed to "Area" instead of "Catmull Rom". I also make sure that I picked "Hammerslay" under "Global Supersampling" instead of "Max 2.5 Star" I did not need a skylight as the projection modifier does that for you during the bake.

[@GalantGoStudio]

Windows Xp ?????????????????? 😶

[@WraithDesignz]

lol no, its Windows 10 just using a skin and program to make it appear as if it looks like Windows XP.

[@GalantGoStudio]

@@WraithDesignz Aha thank you 😊