40K Lore - The Primaris Mistake - The Missing Link of Astartes Evolution

I might have spoken a bit too fast in some sections, sorry for that, still getting used to a flow of speaking where I can be understood but don't appear like I am slowed down artifically.
In any case, hope you enjoyed my version of the "Lore" and the correction of it's problems.
Warhammer 40K Heresyposting: / heresyposting
Florkofcows Official Page: / florkofcowsofficial
ALSO I NOTICED THERE IS THE WRONG ENDING SLIDE AND I DIDN'T NOTICE.
IN THE SPECIAL THANKS THERE IS ALSO:
Chris Baginski Giulio Ragusa
Artist of the high quality flork versions Additional Voices and Narration
Danny Fortuna
Writing, Editing, Producing
Sources:
18th Book of the Horus Heresy - Deliverance Lost

[@ThePontiusGlaw69]

And I just realized I used the wrong picture for the ending slide. Yeah that's on me. Additional credits added to the description.

[@skeletor4062]

Another absolute banger. I nominate Pontius as the official loremaster of Warhammer. He is the only one who gets to state what is and is not canon from now on. To hell with what GW has to say.

[@FrigidDeadline]

I was actually thinking we should branch off the lore from what GW says and have our own canon as a community. But we need somebody, or a few people who cooperate, to be the arbiters of it or else it will just be each individual's head canon.

[@karsten_m]

Way better than GW's "lore".

[@Nandorgrand2]

I should be studying for an exam, but just like Pio, I have no choice in this matter. Let the lore commence.

[@dauphinkivol5555]

Everytime I see primaris I think about that Flashgitz video "What about we make Space Marines... Space Marines?"

[@thewaterguy17]

Gotta Love GW's approach to things. "We need to force everyone to scrap their old armies and rebuy everything but were not even going to try implementing the Primaris using established lore" knowing them, they probably forgot that the Ravenguard and the Raptor project was even a thing when they came up with the Primaris...

[@jamesdeek7039]

I love how people now blame tzeench for all of the ridiculous retcons

[@tokoyonokuni4656]

Roboute Guilliman should have just increased the numbers of the Chapters so that the Imperium wouldn't be constantly outnumbered and on the defensive all the time, with Chapters having to dispatch squads, if not a single SQUAD, or even just a single marine (the famous Kill Marine of the Deathwatch...) because they have to be everywhere at the same time, in order to answer to urgent SOS calls. It's like the meme, you know... Guilliman has an office meeting with his advisors, he asks what to do to reinforce the Astartes Chapters. Cawl says "pulling out Space Marines-Space Marines from my arse", Sicarius says "force all of the Chapters to stick to the Codex Astartes more closely", and Trajan Valoris says : "let's put back the average nominal number of Astartes to Ten Thousand as the Emperor originally intended", and Guilliman furiously throws Valoris out of Terra and into the gameplay.

[@tau-5794]

Minor point but the original number of marines per legion hovered closer to 100k than 10k. Though tacking on an extra zero to the allowed number of marines in the galaxy would solve a lot of problems and probably not have the same risk of rebellion as in the Horus Heresy.

[@BM-wf9uf]

​@@tau-5794At the height of the Great Crusade and prior to the betrayal of Lorgar at Calth. Guilliman actually has 250,000 Space Marines under his command. I think at one point prior to the Rangdan Xenocide, Lion El'Jonson also commanded roughly 200, 000 Space Marines as well. There was no limit on how many Space Marines a Legion could have during the Great Crusade.

[@tokoyonokuni4656]

@@tau-5794 Yes and no. I meant that the Emperor didn't start with 100k per Legion, these are the high numbers of the end of the Great Crusade when they were recruiting non-stop. At the begining, when all were organised based on Principio Bellicosa, they were 10k or so.

[@katathoombz]

"A video on the Primaris? I'm not sure I care enough to listen. Wait, it's from _The Pontius_ ? Gimme dat!" - me, a minute ago.

[@ThePontiusGlaw69]

don't worry, you will see what we did with it.

[@katathoombz]

@@ThePontiusGlaw69 good shyte, better than the GW lore.

[@pedropierre9594]

" there has always been female Orkz "

[@petersharplin4118]

Pontius Fortuna I am very grateful for your gatekeeping efforts and standing as a shining beacon that wards away the soy!

[@miroslavmalivukovic1534]

God bless all the Italians who speak English with such a thick accent! Itsa magnificente!

[@ThePontiusGlaw69]

BIPPIDY BOOPIDY!

[@coreyhoster6558]

This is like the Lore equivalent of a good pizza.

[@Nyxcha]

Honestly I'd accept this lore. It builds on existing instead of asspulling. It's great

[@picklefathernurgle2719]

If GW won't respect the lore, then I'm happy to consider this canon: that was a great story.

[@thechadcruzaider7864]

Retarded that GW came up with *Primarch Organs* to explain their shiny new toys existence

[@tfan2222]

…even the Horus Heresy novels depict Primarchs have having organs that both completely baffle Apothecaries as to what they are and do.

[@ayethe4603]

Danny once again fleshes out what i had hoped gw would do danny is one of the greatest lore men

[@ghostcrusader620]

5:38 I am very amused by the implication that Lorgar´s inteligence is so low even the Emperor can´t teach him with literal psychic enlightenment

[@yaboimagnus5845]

Lmao yes, but it's also true

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

One way I thought of to explain away the Primaris getting such massively improved war gear, rather than Cawl just pulling it out of his metallic a**, was to have Guilliman meet with the Fabricator General on Mars and tell him in no uncertain terms that he was not there to play politics. The Mechanicus would open its vaults and grant him unrestricted access to the technology they had been hoarding for the past ten thousand years to help him deal with the existential threat that had just kicked open the Cadian Gate or he would open the vaults himself after stepping over their corpses.

[@ThePontiusGlaw69]

I justified that with the combat Data and the attitude and knowledge of cawl, all new technology is based on the battle data of the original Raptors that simply couldn't be as effective with inferior gear.

[@georgepanayotov5288]

Pio is the G.O.A.T.

[@argonaus4149]

Anyone working on a big universe should be hiring this level of dedication/autism to make sure his universe don't get fucked up

[@balkenkreuz2063]

Ah, the fact that random KZbinrs make better lore than the actual company is an irony not loss to me.

[@CallanElliott]

I love the way this Italian Loretuber depicts the Alpha Legion with a French voice.

[@ThePontiusGlaw69]

The Italian VS French rivarly never ended.

[@CallanElliott]

@@ThePontiusGlaw69 No, I just love idea that the deceitful Space Marine Legion are French.

[@ZarfuRS]

You are incredible my man! From heresyposting to here, your comedy style makes my side hurts daily! Thank you ❤

[@Ultra_Hlebus]

That’s what I needed from KZbin. Listening to an angry Italian man while I paint my minis

[@SilcronKaytor]

Discovered you not so long ago and these have been bangers. Even as one that knows a lot about 40k, they make very entertainment watch as I paint.

[@OrangeAmped]

I've read Deliverance Lost, this explanation makes perfect sense. This is a good rationalization of Primaris marines. It's not really the Primaris per se, it's how it was done that makes people so mad and reflexively hate them. The new vehicles, weapons, and armor are probably more implausible than the marines themselves, although the Imperium did make MKVIII and IX later on. It's not improbable that new STC tech to make grav tanks etc could have been discovered in 10,000 years of the AdMech greedily scouring the universe for it. In general, the Post-Cadia Indomitus era is a new period in the lore that has a different vibe, similar to different eras of Battletech... with similar issues of cringy new lore mixed with interesting but badly executed concepts.

[@jesusisherelookbusy]

Absolutely fantastic work Danny! You’ve single handily made the lore 10 time better. Thanks brother 🫡

[@ThePhantomFeather]

**inhales** WHY ISNT THIS THE ACTUAL CANON?! granted I am not as versed in the HH era lore than I am with other bits of Warhammer lore. but this... all made sense. and it made logical sense.

[@lorenzdistruzzi6928]

never seen an italian warhammer youtuber that dosnt show his face and dosnt talk about stats... nice to have met you

[@ThePontiusGlaw69]

You will just see me correct lore for the most part.

[@jaegerbomb269]

May the Raven Guard have their vengeance!

[@atheos5748]

These are getting better and better, keep at it Danny!

[@laplace3945]

In the end, I'm happy with how primaris turned out, but in truth, I hate that so many threads remain unsolved, such as the raptor marine storyline

[@Steelstriker]

this is 10,000 times better than what GW actually made. This is now canon in my eyes

[@christophersalumro3076]

YES! IT'S HERE

[@Scott90314]

Great video man! Good to have a upload from one of us❤

[@kennetheisenbraun5217]

10/10 wouldn't despise primaris if this was the lore.

[@yaboimagnus5845]

Right around the end of the video. WAS THAT KEVIN? 😂

[@fabioeliasreisritter8827]

Timing couldn't be better. I've finished reading Deliverance Lost a couple weeks back and it doesn't make sense that they just dropped the whole "Oh, we can make better space marines AND faster!" and didn't follow up with it. And the book is a nothing burger, it ends the same way as it started after that saga of getting into the big E's lab to retrieve the tech. Great video mr. Tuna

[@Nafanya74]

Dude, you are awesome!!! Please make more content

[@aaronsouthard8366]

See? This works! This works so fucking good.

[@lucamicieli6968]

Another great video. Nailed it.

[@Amphibian67]

LETS GOOOOOO! NEW VIDEO!

[@Darklight689]

Should make an alternate history fan site

[@mikkbarsparkblast4829]

Excellent

[@TheMercian13]

Primaris video: meh. Primaris video by Pontius: I’ll allow it.

[@ThePontiusGlaw69]

well it is literally titled "The Primaris Mistake" lol

[@WarpedMindFilm]

Mary Sue Cawl had 10s of thousands of Primarius Marines with equipment sitting on ice for 10,000 years and never thought "Hey, the Tyranids are munching on the Imperium maybe I should commit these troops to the defense". ---Wolfe

[@enealeverone]

Grande Danny, ottimo video come al solito. Se un giorno mai verrai in toscana ti offro da bere, magari per un Lucca Comics? 🍻

[@ThePontiusGlaw69]

trovami un'accompagnatrice che viene in sisters of battle armor e vengo di corsa lol

[@Chonkulease]

The primaris Mk 10 armor is largely based on the deathwatch and grey knight "MK 9" Errant pattern armor, they could have had Guiliman strong arming the inquisition into releasing some of their advanced gear, perhaps at the cost of Guiliman agreeing to stay out of the inquisition's business. A similar deal could have been done with the vehicles and the Adech leading to a 3 way internal power struggle within the Imperium properly representing how Divisive the introduction of these new marines would be to the Imperium.

[@ThePontiusGlaw69]

the last patten before mk 10 was the mk 8 mate.

[@Chonkulease]

@@ThePontiusGlaw69 Hence the air quotes, Deathwatch and grey knight armor differs from the Mk8 and has a lot in common with the mk 10, Specifically the waist and abdominal armor

[@judgecohen1373]

Well done. Will spread.

[@theeternalchronicler3072]

Well done indeed

[@staven512]

Its sad GW has some good book writers, but terrible world builders... Aka executives

[@michaelriddick7116]

"Worth it." 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@dziku2222]

A way better handled than official crap.

[@Ratkill]

It has to be the increased influence of investors that is killing the lore. They likely do not give authors time to incorporate new product lines into the narrative continuum. Some boardroom fuccass probably decides its time for a new uh ... Titan or something, and it has to be ready in 3 months to make a good impact on the quarterly profit evaluations. Ideally the author farm would probably need a solid year to begin to weave the newest cashgrab into the lore.

[@kpsmorera]

The Italian accent makes this shit 10 times better xD

[@jadedlotuz5095]

Your story is better then GWs. But another and easier fix to the Primaris mistake could have been what folks wished it to be. To just have the Primaris thing being the combination of: the latest new Mark 9 armor (instead of Mark X) and new variant of Artificer or Terminator armor (Gravis as mark X), and "True Scale Marines", instead of changing everything and making the old (first born) just pancies. And all new weapons and vehicles just being NEW MODELS! (like how old beakies became the modern one, and the old rhino and landraider and land speeder became the NEW models etc). CAWL could still be fundimental for the new Marks and Equipments. Call it "Cawl-pattern". But what do I know? ;) Cheers.

[@jadedlotuz5095]

My favorite Space Marines is still the Mk 6 Beakie. ;)

[@mostcomplicatedman8115]

THIS IS CANON NOW

[@Oblivius33]

Here's another fun fact for the Primaris Marines. They are more popular with the parent's that buy the miniatures for their children, according to what friends are told from shop owners. Not sure how that changes between regions, towns and nations, but yes Primaris are apparently child friendly. Probably because of the removal the angry scowl respirator on their helmets. I'm willing to be that's by design.

[@Ankhtowe]

Yes, but not just that. They also smoothed the edges down, made the design more round and less sharp, dialed down the skulls and whatnot, etc. They're specifically designed to look more generic sci-fi and somewhat more cartoonish. That's intentional.

[@alastor8091]

​@@AnkhtoweI hate the sensibilities of normals.

[@Nundevwizer]

How they start the vid: THEYRE PLAYING A CHILDRENS CARD GAME 😂😂😂

[@vladmods]

Praise the Emperor, a Pontius transmission!

[@markustaut5227]

The intro alone was worth the click! 🤣

[@Auriorium]

Better then the original.

[@LuciaFinstra]

Good man, you need to be an official consultant for GW! If I had influence there, you'd be hired!

[@judgecohen1373]

This canon is now my canon.

[@vezqu840]

This is now canon

[@FishyNiden]

Anybody know the music played in the marine music edit at the end of the video?

[@blackwidowrsa]

Anyone have a link for that Horus video?

[@chokolad_höllenstern]

Another italian classic.

[@VergiliosSpatulas]

Delicious acccent

[@trialnerror3643]

It certainly does make more sense. Though I would add just one thing to alter the primaris a in perfect way. Make their gene seed unrecoverable. The process to make the primaris fine tunes the gene seed so heavily to the specific marine that extracting it only results in a tangled mess of an organ that will not accept another's body and DNA. This means that first born will not die out and my army isn't getting shelved. It also means that primaris is costly and adds tons of narrative options for the lore and space marines. Think of the devastation of Baal. Instead of the murder of the chapter to be replaced by primaris. What if the chapters had the option to cross the rubricon. Meaning every chapter that should would be committing the majority of their chapter and loosing so much gene seed in general that they could either be crippled or destroyed even if they win. Or what about chapters that want to utilize primaris as much as they can but are halted by the 1000 marine limit. So one bad battle or gamble could mean they have lost a big chunk of fighting brothers because they have to wait for more first born marines. Then there are penitent crusades and even the deathwatch to consider. There is so much to explore with this idea.

[@ThePontiusGlaw69]

Or just make part of the codex astartes that having a full chapter of primaris exceeds the limit by itself of 1000 marines, so like maximum 200 marines at any point in a chapter can be primaris and such.

[@tau-5794]

This explanation makes things work a lot better, and it also fits with parts of the range like redemptor dreads burning out their pilots; lowered longevity, so the primaris who shine brighter also burn out quicker than firstborns. It fits with the mechanicus' lower emphasis on human life and making things fit for purpose only to discard them later.

[@trialnerror3643]

@@ThePontiusGlaw69 yes that is an option. But it is something to explore and gives a platform for each space marines chapter to stand on and distinguish themselves. Which is something that space marines chapters desperately need nowadays as primaris have made them all way too similar.

[@odkjqedlkd]

Do you guys play on table top sim? Im looking for a group to play that

[@yopoxikeweapescai9066]

1:06 horus saw this

[@davidcolter]

Daemonculaba video when?

[@Raigan_Avalon]

I absolutely hate the Primaris Marines, but if this version of their creation was the one GW used, I wouldn't have any issues with it. It would also make the Arch-Heretech Cawl... tolerable.

[@columbatiberius2176]

Erebus ended Erda.

[@DieMaskeDerVielenGesichter]

How do we make Danny a writer at GW?

[@Marinealver]

If anything this just makes Primarius more ridiculous as Cawl just easily bested Corax. I don't like the idea of "stupid primarchs" as well. I think the lore of Angron and Logar could be changed into a more tragic one which would be more proper. When you make stupid primarchs then you make the Emperor a bumbling fool. The Emperor story of the Horus Heresy should be of one that does everything right, but can still lose.

[@ThePontiusGlaw69]

By my lore he didn't best anything, he had the complete research of Corax and all of his studies, and was told "Use this, and remake what he made", Corax took weeks, Belissarius took millenia, and still delivered an inferior product.

[@FrigidDeadline]

I suggest adding manual subtitles because the auto subtitles don't do a good job with 40k names and terms. It could be helpful to clarify exactly what you're talking about for those who don't have enough background knowledge to guess, and avoid any issues with accent or different pronunciations.

[@ThePontiusGlaw69]

Accent you will have to get used to, we are adding subtitles but it is a slow process, most of the people can understand me either way, it's a matter of getting used to it. Also, the videos are on specific lore subjects, rest you can look up on the wikis, this is certainly not a video for beginners of the lore.

[@FrigidDeadline]

@@ThePontiusGlaw69 The accent adds flavor to the channel, I would miss it. It's just a suggestion. I ride the subway so I can't hear clearly sometimes. That's another reason.

[@ThePontiusGlaw69]

@@FrigidDeadline I would suggest headphones, even 5 dollars ones, at least you can isolate yourself a little while traveling.

[@alastor8091]

Fem Stodes arent canon.

[@vladmods]

Brother Pontius, who are these Unfleshed you speak of? As for the video, it's a better story than the one made up by Games Wokeshop.

[@ThePontiusGlaw69]

look up on lexicanum.

[@vladmods]

@@ThePontiusGlaw69 Will do!

[@nightwebmc]

Mama Mia

[@TheBrimfire]

Daemonculaba??^^ gimme a video will be fun! OH BTW: PRIMARIS and their fanboys SUCCK I build a firstborn Intercessors squad people gave me shyte-.- like: WHEEEL AKSCHUALLY you cant do that....... and that from the F..fck that made primaris BLOODCLAWS!!!

[@juanmolinafernandez3983]

Great work on making a better Lore than Games Workshop.Really. But sorry, I still don't like primaris. Are kinda of trying to make the 40k Mary sues. And there are things that doesn't make sense: why it's difficult to make a land raider or an Exterminador armour that this tipe of equipment are relics, but suddenly the empire can make gravitic tanks for every chapter, that is technically and objectively more difficult to develope and build? No sense at all. And also I don't like their aesthetics. Too clean. Too tau, if you understand me. Maybe is just I'm an angry millenial Who started with third edition, but...

[@Ankhtowe]

What? The Tau have had hover tanks the whole time.

[@mr.raider7865]

He was referring to their aesthetic as the tau have a pretty clean and fairly indistinct model to them.​@@Ankhtowe

[@Ankhtowe]

@@mr.raider7865 No, he clearly said "empire" so he was definitely referring to the Tau, as this is not Warhammer Fantasy.

[@mr.raider7865]

@@Ankhtowe are you confused? Empire as in the Imperium I would have to assume. Which has nothing to do with his tau comment about aesthetic

[@Ankhtowe]

@@mr.raider7865 Well, which is it? Empire or Imperium? Words mean things, and those are not the same thing.

[@Baldus-the_bald_guy]

this guy thinks he's horus

[@ThePontiusGlaw69]

It is meant to be a joke in fact mate.

[@Baldus-the_bald_guy]

@@ThePontiusGlaw69 i know

[@Rurik_Luci]

Erebus Did *NOTHING* Wrong

[@christophersalumro3076]

HE DID NOTHING, WRONG!

[@danielschroder5733]

You spelled "FUCK EREBUS!" wrong.

[@Rurik_Luci]

​@danielschroder5733 Erebus is just misunderstood. He's the only "good guy" really.

[@squirreltele]

firstttt

[@jasperdecastro5215]

good

[@Abefroman-lq3md]

Bloody brilliant!! Salutation’s from Belfast Northern Ireland 🇬🇧