45. New York Boy is Dead (to us)

This week, Deepti and Natalie unpack Natalie’s recent break up with “New York Boy”. They explore infidelity, insecurity, and if you really are the company you keep.
P.S. F you, NY Boy.

[@rosierayyy]

A (hopefully) comforting story: I was in a 5 year long distance relationship, relocated to him, and then was cheated on. Found out on Valentine’s Day ironically. He married her two months later. I was such a broken person I can’t even describe the devastation, so I had walls too. fast forward to this Valentine’s Day: im getting married next month. He would NEVER and those walls are really non existent with him. I thank the universe every day I didn’t end up with the first guy. You’ll end up with a story like this too one day ❤

[@ningyding]

Deepti is saying all the right things to Natalie. Great friend!

[@macymiller3417]

This new set up is fire. Love seeing y’all together

[@ashleyw.6702]

Yeah, looks more cozy. And less COVID-esque. Lol. ❤

[@cristinavaldez1980]

“The truth will set you free, but it’ll piss you off first.” Sending lots of love your way Natalie ❤

[@margiegaldamez2311]

Not me reading the title of this and stopping everything I’m doing to listen to this as if Natalie is my best friend and she just text me. I’m so sorry Natalie, that guy is a piece of trash.

[@Jess_cool25]

This tea is pipping hot! Thanks for sharing this Natalie. I’m sorry this happened to you.

[@ashleyw.6702]

Yes ☕️

[@callumnton]

the in-person setup is AWESOME

[@emiemms]

"let's just use his real name" *bleeps it out*😂

[@operator_zx5265]

😜Probably she saw .. a lawsuit coming her way ...🤣🤣🤣🤣😜😜...

[@user-mj5zq1xz4i]

Not me scouring the comments trying to find his name! Fill me in internet!!!

[@nofreakingwayy]

This feels like that session you have with a friend after a breakup where they tell you everything about the guy they wouldn’t say while they were together. So sorry this happened but happy you can move forward with clarity

[@ew207503]

Add gaslighting to the list of horrible qualities NY boy has - He called you crazy when you confronted him about the condom?!?! I would have been out the door on those words alone.

[@onechick7200]

My thoughts exactly!

[@sherrylldominique4990]

The fact she believed him and stayed and continued to likely have sex with him is crazy. I would have just left and enjoyed NY by myself

[@brittanywhite334]

The way I AUDIBLY GASPED in the middle of singing a little song when I read the title!! Wtf! Should have known when he wasn’t down to even consider relocation. Otherwise, so glad y’all are in person again. I like it.

[@ningyding]

Oh girrrl you can’t make it work with a dismissive avoidant. It’s not a good life. This was a blessing. Wish I could hug you!

[@tinalina6471]

Just yesterday I watched the LIB Sweden recap in which Natalie talks about the work crush being okay or something like that, and NY boy was there in the room with her and he looked at her like wuttt o.O, so they had a giggle about it. And NOW SEEING HE STRAIGHT UP CHEATED HAS ME REELING. The audacity meter is broken at this point

[@CookieDou_gh]

Omg I thought the same thing! In retrospect, it seemed like he was triggered or something

[@fermoy29]

People cheat for a number of reasons, and most of the time it has much more to do with the flaws they themselves are unwilling to fix than with the person they are in a relationship with. In case the simile works, I tried to explain it to a friend who has gone through the same thing in the following way: you are a T-shirt and as a T-shirt you are perfect, cute, and you fulfill your function, but one day in August at 40ºC degrees he insisted that he wanted a sweater? It doesn't make sense, but it has nothing to do with the T-shirt, but with the wrong needs he felt he had at that moment. He will regret it at some point, because he will realize that you were the best possible garment for that moment, and he lost you because he was a fool.

[@ashenal]

Thanks for being so vulnerable and great to see Deepti being so supportive. Great episode

[@3xtabby]

Im sorry you went through this . I can completely relate 😢. This episode was the right one for you both to be together and as a listener / watcher the relationship between the two of you on screen felt so sincere . It was a very engaging episode. I hope brighter days are coming soon ❤

[@lalasimone5932]

...really sorry about what happened Natalie. I could tell New York boy was NOT IT. I could tell just from the details you previously gave that he was not serious, was too distant and that you seemed to be doing the heavy lifting. You deserve SO much better.

[@kasicasillas]

The new set up is great! And also loving the authenticity and sharing wisdom learned from your relationships current or past

[@aggienatl]

Sending you hugs, Natalie!!!🤗 Listening to both of your meet cute stories, it actually sounded like the men were testing/grooming you. I think all men do it to find out what your boundaries are and how far you will let them go. In the case of your last relationship Natalie, I think the fact that he was telling you about his cheating friend was a warning, like the Telltale Heart. And I definitely think that he wanted you to find the wrapper. He wanted to break up with you. But just like the actress, he wanted one last visit. It wasn’t you, this is just how he ends things. The game is no longer fun once the woman begins to see the real person. Deepti: that guy with the gf and the dog was a sociopath and he was definitely testing you. Highly emphatic people like you really need to be careful not to become targets to narcs and sociopaths. There really are people out there that get an enormous amount of entertainment from these games. Good luck🍀, Ladies!!!

[@blackberryvanilla0822]

I’m so sorry that happened to you Natalie, you deserve so much better and NY boy should be embarrassed. Can’t believe he couldnt admit up until the very end. On another note, I wish you guys had episodes coming out everyday because I’d watch all of them 😅

[@macymiller3417]

Right?! We need more podcast episodes but Ik they have real lives. Just so entertaining.

[@sarahk7918]

Natalie, when you spoke about the things that made you incompatible and then the things you had in common - as someone who was just broken up with by an avoidant person who also was not inquisitive and didn't ask me questions, be grateful that he showed you who he was because you're absolutely right - he's a bad person, and you're a great person. Don't spend too much time asking yourself how people are the way they are (not saying you're doing this but if anyone is reading this and is doing this), because one thing I've learned since being broken up with out of nowhere a month ago by my partner of 2 years, is that the reason we spend so much time wondering why people have the ability to do horrible things to us, and why our brains cannot process their actions, is because WE would NEVER do that to someone. We are incapable of being that cruel, mean, unfaithful, whatever it is that they've done to us. It's so nice to walk away from a situation even if it wasn't our decision to end things, knowing that we are incapable of being THAT type of person. My partner didn't cheat but could not handle ANY negative emotions in any aspect of his life, and in his overwhelmed state and with no reasoning left me. It's been about 5 weeks and I already am realizing how much I need a deep connection and how I was never going to have that with him. For anyone suffering through their breakup and wondering why things happened, if they'll find someone better, will they be happy again - I promise you WILL find someone better, that person who hurt you will regret it whether they tell you or not, and you will be 100% more happy with the right person I promise. Stay strong!!

[@LaFaunLazorrBeam]

Natalie, you got my crying. I went thru a breakup that made me feeel soooo sooo similar. I was paranoid of the world for a while, and it happened after a great weekend and I didn't really get answers fr. I'm about 6 months past that and feeling much better and more open to the world. Sending you ALL my love, girl. I love yall!

[@abdc145]

Natalie I am so sorry this happened to you. But you are handling this in such a mature matter. You will be absolutely okay after this ❤️

[@EmilyLynn0529]

Girls!!! Been waiting for days for your Season 6 recap !! ❤

[@roshinmathew7206]

Love seeing you both in the same frame. I'm sorry this happened to you, Natalie. The road ahead might seem dark now but trust this is for the better ...only onward and upward from here.

[@halitst1]

I’m so sorry you went through that, Natalie! I am from New York and spent my late teens and twenties there. I went through THE WRINGER with men there. When you started the story, I already knew he was going to try to break up with you and pin it on you. It’s happened to me before. In general, men in New York lack relationship skills and interpersonal integrity. It’s very sad! I’ve even dated a famous producer who was not as bad as men there. There is something in the air with men there. Wishing you all the best and lots of love! You are not crazy! He doesn’t deserve you. Like they, ‘behind rejection is God’s protection.’ Imagine if you married him, that would’ve been WAAAAAAY WORSE!

[@deanie3]

YAASS THE GIRLS ARE BACK TOGETHERRRE💅🏽✨💕

[@jennifermellors8212]

Oh Natalie this hurts. Betrayal trauma is very traumatizing, I hope you are able to process this and move on. It sounds like you found someone who really manipulates people, you really dodged a bullet there. Anyone who talks about hating liars and cheaters is probably one in my experience.

[@saskiazoboki2112]

Love this setting though!

[@ojaswijoshi4337]

Hello Natalie and Deepti! Your storytelling is truly captivating and inspiring! It feels like having two older sisters to look up to for wisdom and guidance. Wishing you and your family abundant health, prosperity, and the strength to embrace positive comments. As a subscriber and supporter from Nepal, thank you for being beacons of strength, wisdom, and resilience. May God manifest the best in love, career, family, and spirituality for you.

[@wmnpwr98]

Omg this happened to me!!!! I was the girlfriend of 3 years, he ghosted me for an evening, and I came back the next day suspicious and found a wrapper in his trash can. He bold faced lied to me about it and as naive as I was, I let it go…. But looking back at it all, I know I was lied to. Glad we didn’t work out, and I left him in the dust….

[@kaylailoa]

I’ve been waiting for you guys to record It in person 🤣 yayy

[@ningyding]

Aw Natalie I’m so sorry about the walls. You so didn’t deserve this. You will get better at learning who to trust and who not to. I think you will realize more and more red flags that you overlooked and you will learn from this.

[@milianmam]

This felt so real and I loved it. I’m so sorry Natalie and Deepti you’re such a great friend!

[@Brendafl0]

I love this set up so so so much!

[@stephaniek6705]

Natalie you looks so beautiful here. Honestly, he was dimming your shine. You're not even being petty. There's someone out there who will match you on your level.

[@ashneyalexander2581]

I feel like if someone lies about cheating and I find out I don’t even care to know why they cheated because they may be just lying to me again

[@lunas2551]

First, you all are my comfort podcast. You both have such soothing voices and maturity of thought. You are goals as to developing as women 💗 Second, I appreciate you sharing your cheating experience, Deepti. I had a similar long-term relationship and went back, and I still struggle with shame from going back (feeling like a weak woman). Lastly, Natalie, while your guard may be back up, the healing you did is still there. Just go slow with the next guy. True colors show over time, whether they want them to or not. And sometimes people hurting us is about the journey they are on (the lesson he will learn from this)

[@macymiller3417]

OH TEA!! I am intrigued going to watch this now. Natalie just want to start by saying I’m so sorry. ❤️

[@shadowpuppet0312]

Not swearing on his mom's life! Does his mom know her life is in danger because of her own son?! 😅

[@leeregalado8326]

We all love & support you both ! You both deserve the best !!

[@xojeanetteg3741]

Thanks for sharing Natalie

[@j-380]

Girl.. it wasn't incompatibility preventing him from asking follow up questions...he didn't want you to ask him any follow up questions 😂

[@Musicsinger299]

I'm sorry this happened to you Natalie.. so glad you have close friends like Deepti to be there for you. ❤ Also.. your hair looks majestic!

[@rketek]

My experiences: A guy went on a business trip and he came back with some sun color on his face. I asked him about it and he said he'd gone to a park. I can't remember exactly how it came out but he went on a hike with somebody! So I said, You mean you went on a DATE?? and at first he denied it but then I could see his face change that it dawned on him that was the truth. I really think he thought or convinced himself it wasn't a date bc nothing physical happened. But when he realized emotional cheating is still cheating. He was *extremely* apologetic and remorseful. That is how you should be if you messed up. I was with this other guy who went on a business trip (watch out for business trips lol) who didn't call me when he was supposed to be back. 🚩 He answered my call from in bed and I could hear SOMEONE WAS IN BED WITH HIM!!! When we talked later, his response was, But you won't marry me. Yeah, my fault you're a cheating a*hole. Compare and contrast, ladies! 😂

[@user-yv9eu4so9p]

A guy hanging out with a woman is not cheating, jesus fucking christ.

[@bdazzld]

Not his moms life -.- sorry Natalie ❤

[@karenwong3170]

So sorry for your pain Natalie - both of you rock and will find your Princes who are deserving of your love. Ad inserts are better and love the two of interacting face to face.

[@LovedByYou]

I think Deepti has the ability to project a lot when she gives “advice” and “comfort”.

[@ValentinaWithFeathers]

Natalie, I am really sorry and I can sympathize so much. My partner cheated on me in December and then broke up with me after a 6 year relationship. We live together, were each other's love of our lives up until now. He claims he doesn't love me anymore and I feel so devastatingly lost in life now. I'll be moving out of our home in 2 days and this is one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. Stupidly, I still hope he'll realize he does still love me down the road after he lost me. Life is just so hard at times

[@wholesomevibez]

I’m so sorry to hear that you’re going through this. I can’t even imagine how difficult of a situation you’re in, but I hope you know that you deserve the best, and only the best. He didn’t deserve you. Wishing the best for you. You’re strong 🩷

[@ValentinaWithFeathers]

@@wholesomevibez Thank you 💜

[@pussycat_we_love_you_rescue]

Hi I listened to so many amazing online coaches after being in a cycle of negative relationships. One coach said. When it feels the relationship suddenly ended it never really has. There is probably many months and many years your partner wanted out. If you look back you could probably remember times and situations of red flags. People dont make these decisions overnight. Its a gradual build up. Be honest was your relatiionship really perfect what were the areas you werent compatible?. I had a great relationship with my ex but honestly our love life had died. Apart from that it was amazing. We live in so much denial. Im not saying this to hurt you but to understand it better. Me and my friend did fem energy and we really got to understand men. Im not promoting anyone. Just stumbled across thos podcast. ❤

[@groovyzoom1]

💯 a narcissist. They can’t admit anything they do bc it actually comes from deeply rooted shame they are too cowardly to face.

[@Smartbe1]

yall should do the episode recaps sooner at least for this season... then can go back to Wed

[@bak3456]

😢 so sorry Natalie , some people are selfish and frankly heartless! Good riddance hope the guilt never leaves him

[@swayhooray]

This episode was very therapeutic

[@milosantamaria1513]

Natalie I'm so sorry! I just went through something so similar, I was in a 2 year long distance relationship. I visited him in September and he started putting in less and less effort afterwards so I had a conversation with him and asked for reassurance and he couldn't even tell me why he wanted to be with me so I ended it and the next day I found out he had been telling a mutual friend he wanted to break up with me just days before I visited him, and they were talking behind my back about our relationship the whole time!

[@VeggiesbyEos]

Y'all deserve nothing but the best 😭😭

[@nerisalynrasing346]

This is the bestie/girlfriend talk goals when one needs another (and we’re here too). Natalie, you didn’t deserve this at all… you deserve the world and a strong, independent woman. Following you and Deepti through this podcast makes me feel like we’re girlfriends thru podcast. Though I’m married, being a flat out girlfriend to listen and be there for my girls is a moment like this. Good for you Natalie and Deepti you’re such a good friend too!

[@dannimcgregor1790]

Listening to this hurts, been there girl. You’re amazing and he would have done this to anyone he dates I bet. Never settle for a jackass, you deserve a gentleman xx

[@SaucyAkiko]

Judge a person by their character. If they were shitty to another, they could be shitty to you. Don’t believe in the “I won’t do this to you.” Also, it doesn’t matter why someone lies or cheated on you. It doesn’t matter what their intentions were or if they didn’t mean it… etc. No reason justifies this action. Judge them for their actions, not their intentions. I hope you’ll heal from this with time, Natalie. Give yourself grace. ❤

[@dorisadventure4205]

The new Set is so Beautiful 😘♥️ I miss a cool Drink, Cocktail, Tee or coffee 🌷😘♥️

[@kanamizuoka9065]

You deserve so much more Natalie! You are such a baddie - articulate, caring, and beautiful🔥 SO proud that you called him out. Bigger things are waiting for you, for sure!!! 🎉

[@Freee479]

So sorry this happened to you Natalie by I can’t lie it made me cackle whenever you went straight from being at the verge of tears to rolling out an ad. It was so hilarious 😂😂😂

[@Stormy575]

Yeah, that was more than a little weird.

[@zoeziebee]

Natalie, what he did is much more about him than it is about you. You did the work to trust and open your heart, you have that capability now, you just need to find someone who actually deserves it 🤗

[@clf2985]

I am so sorry this happened to you Natalie😕 I love the couch where is it from?

[@Stormy575]

How can a long-distance relationship be suffocating? I'm someone who needs a lot of space but that is ridiculous 😂

[@yumnab2501]

The best way to get to know someone is by knowing their friends!!!! 1000%%% your friends influence you subconsciously. You are what you’re company is.

[@julieh2737]

I used to visit a friend frequently who lived in NYC for a long time. This is pretty weird, but Ive never seen / known so many people that cheat. EVERYONE there ok, not everyone, but almost everyone cheated on their spouses. It was like a known thing?! You are welcome to chime in if you think I'm wrong LOL. That aside, my heart hurts for you Natalie, but thank you for sharing! I'm sure just talking about it does help some. Sending loving and positive thoughts your way!

[@pamelavargas01]

Natalie so sorry this happened but yes onto the next. You have sooo much to live! ❤

[@shreyasubramaniam4942]

Oh my God, Natalie. I do not kid when I tell you I went through the exact same situation a few months ago. He too said the same things New York guy said. And the gaslighting and deflection and inability to claim responsibility or accountability and making you feel bad "not knowing better" (as NY guy did about his older ex). He too cheated and then told me it didn't count, and that if I thought he cheated and thought of him as an evil person, that was my prerogative, and that he could live with that. I highly doubt such men will ever change unless maybe someone gives them a taste of their own medicine.

[@erinbelmont3374]

I am so sorry Natalie that you are going through this. As Deepti said, this is not on you. You are so sweet and full of love and you deserve to be met with that same kind of love. He lost a gem, but sounds like you deserved better from the start of dinners were quiet and he wouldn’t pursue your passions. Love you girl! We are all here for you 💕

[@anubhagupta6368]

Natalie just summarized the story of many girls! Like so on point.

[@inukimekoinukimeko]

There are evil people in the world who don’t feel guilt. As much as it hurts, good thing you found out now Natalie. The universe saved you.

[@magnolia1776]

Haven’t even gotten into this episode I just started it Can’t wait to listen Also I hope y’all will comment on LIB Season 6

[@TrueSamuraiHero]

Dating in your 30’s or even 28 and up will always be difficult.

[@ciaraomalley8725]

The truth seriously does set you free (be it telling the truth or finding it out!) this will endup being the best thing that could’ve happened to you. Imagine finding out who he is years down the road after a wedding, kids etc!

[@raeraemillstone]

Oh Natalie!! I am so sorry I was tearing up right along with you😢😢

[@rketek]

Natalie, I'm so sorry that happened to you. Knowing your faith, remember that branch is God and God is always sturdy. :) There isn't justice in the world but God is love, patience, kindness... does not delight in evil. Hugs to you. If you can't have a good conversation, then it's no good. If you value conversation and he can't or won't then you're not gonna make it. When the spark simmers or when you're older and the hormone levels decline 😊, what are you left with?

[@robertbishop5440]

I am so very sorry you had to experience this Natalie. I've been cheated on to and I know how much it can mess with you and make you mistrust future partners. All I can say from my own personal experience is that him cheating was not about you. He just didn't know how to break up the right way, and obviously is immature, so he chose the cowards way out. He probably isn't an evil person, but he made an evil decision. Don't let this ruin your good memories of the relationship, because I'm sure some of those were real and it's good to hold on to the positive things we've experienced with significant others. The moments we have as a couple, the good and the bad, make us who we are, so it's important that you don't let this destroy your faith in people. It took me a long time to trust again, but eventually I found the love of my life and now I'm happily married. That will be you one day, if you want it. Just keep living your life and being the amazing person you are and I know one day you will find the perfect person for you. I love your podcast, and I think you have a LOT to offer. Stay strong and don't let anyone bring you down.

[@Alyson542]

I'm glad Natalie called him out. You can't just cheat on someone and blame it on the distance. And then be upset that you're being called out. Where do people get the audacity? Also Natalie's right, she gets to live her life soundly knowing she doesn't treat people like that, while he won't know that peace. Sucks to suck

[@kj1227icecap]

I'm sorry you experienced that yet again. It breaks my heart. It's so fucking hard to find good loyal loving men. If he felt smothered especially in long distance, he did not belong in a relationship. He's a POS and needs to grow TF up!

[@marip0za21]

This is why I try not to put myself in situations where I can be compromised. I’ve learned my lesson. And yea I’m a natural flirt because I’m too friendly too 🤷🏻‍♀️ Hugs to you Natalie. I know it’s not easy but it’ll get better and this is only preparing you for the one. 💛 I’ve been through a bad relationship, thankfully I’m not there anymore. Trust the healing process 😘

[@shireenkhan4747]

Watching this at 11k views and posted 1 day ago. The angels are with you, Natalie 🙏✨

[@emilycmc662]

I love the new set up & the couch looks sooooo comfortable. Big big hugs Natalie ❤ that guy is a POS . He’s a loser.. always going on x ? LOL first of all .. FOR why . Anyways , good on you for articulating your feelings & not just holding it in . You two are so beautiful : inside & out . continue to enjoy your life and focus on you . The right person will show up at the right time ❤!

[@thestanleyfamily9371]

After the story how he calculated the breakups with his ex, this man sounds like very calculated with his breakups. I don’t think the condom’s wrapper was an accident… He wanted the breakup didn’t want the courage to directly doing it… It all seems too obvious..

[@LaFaunLazorrBeam]

He did the same shit of talking about how he hated cheaters and shit and hyped me to believe he was this trustworthy person.

[@biancaneves3346]

I think she said Zack. Internet detectives: UNITE!

[@sammysunshine4884]

Quite honestly, it’s a good thing on your end you never mentioned his name or anything through out the whole podcast. Cuz you don’t have to be embarrassed about who you involved yourself in and also have the public know. He was “New York boy” for a reason. Also, your hair looks good!

[@Mishy732]

I miss the other setting because I felt like we were all in the conversation lol. I am sorry Natalie, forgive and forget. Life will take care of him.

[@annettesworld]

You ladies such good vibes ☺️

[@melissasesma3218]

Avoidant attachment and anxious attachment look it up! (Maybe you know about this already) learning about this changed my life! Edit: just heard you talked about this. 😅

[@melissaalves2203]

I felt when Natalie said she wish she would have ended it prior to finding the wrapper. I had a very similar situation. I kept wanting to end things but didn't. And sadly it took a major lie to make it happen. Probably the same thing with Natalie. Gotta listen to intuition and stick to it. Xoxo.

[@user-bk6ky1eo7m]

I think that the fact that he still hangs out with his friend who cheats is honestly a red flag. I could be wrong but better safe than sorry 😅

[@veronicaperalta3639]

I’m so sorry Natalie cheating is the worst, I got cheated twice with my 4 year long boyfriend last year, 3 weeks after I found out my grandfather passed away and he decided to make things official with the girl that same day💔

[@AM-fp2ji]

Cheating always has more to do with the person who cheated than the person who gets cheated on. It has nothing to do with you. Keep that in mind! Still sucks though so I’m sorry you’re going through this

[@Kay-zl3qx]

This quote always resonates with me "Someone who loves you wouldn't put themselves in a position to lose you." You got this Natalie your heart is pure, you will find your person just keep trusting that! 🤎

[@Borednstufff]

I love deepti, but she’s interrupting the story flow this episode lol

[@BlehBlehblahBlah1234]

In all realness tho, Natalie I’m so sorry this happened to you. You deserve the world - you’re a lovely human. Take care and remind yourself that this has nothing to do with you and EVERYTHING to do with them.

[@eliseadayme7306]

You girls’ relationship is ❤ feel better Natalie. It sounds like you dodged a bullet, even if tight now it might not feel like it.

[@tinybrit3225]

I’m sorry this happened to you and I really hope you can heal quickly from this experience. As painful as it is to have someone you trust and love cheat on you, it usually has nothing to do with you. Guys are stupid af and we shouldn’t take their poor decisions personally. If you can manage to remove the feelings of personal responsibility from their actions, it will help. You didn’t do anything wrong and you are good enough. I’ve met a few guys that looking on the outside, you would never expect or imagine that they would be the type to cheat, even nerdy shy guys, but they cheated on their long term gfs. I asked them why they did it and each one had a similar answer. They didn’t view sex in a romantic or loving way, one compared it to eating a sandwich or playing tennis. It’s sad that they could view sex in this way since you can literally create life or stis. I hope you find someone trustworthy who values intimacy the same way you do and has strong morals, and doesn’t treat sex like it’s trying a flavor in the ice cream shop.

[@saraha319]

The description 😂😂

[@WorldOfFrenchie]

Wow. Natalie & I had the same week? 😢💔 …was cleaning my boyfriend’s apartment while he was out of town and a condom wrapper was in his trash can. He admitted to it, but he swore we had decided that was the type of relationship we were going to have…even though he also admits that we never reached a conclusion in that conversation about being open. Just heartbreaking 💔