I am a disabled american and ❤ wood working would love a track saw but not enough money would love that saw I know you help other woodworkers love your channel pl tr ease keep up those videos
@jeffcreighton2 жыл бұрын
I'm sure you get alot of messages from people saying how you inspire them. This is mostly the same. I am or was a Police Officer for Memphis. I was injured and then retired. Your videos provide me with the needed motivation. I had built furniture from time to time with wood. Anyway I really enjoy your videos a d the items you build. I have had to learn how to do everything again. That includes walking, talking, pretty much everything. I've just been wanting to tell ya how your videos provide me with motivation to keep driving. THANK YOU.
@731Woodworks2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing Jeff! I am glad the videos helped!
@officialtree5245 Жыл бұрын
I do woodworking sometimes, and since i started recently im just using my dad's skil saw for things a table saw cant do, and it works just as well as a track saw, with no fraying. I think that a track saw is better than a circular saw to buy, but if u have a circular saw, just use it with a wooden track.
@doncripemc3certifiedsr.med3263 жыл бұрын
Agree. I would like to see more content for woodworking hobbiests. That wouldn't make us feel so inadequate.
@danielboguse4249 Жыл бұрын
I've made battery holders for all my extra batteries. I have one in the garage, one in the basement and one next to the charger for batteries waiting to get charged. I also made one with a handle to carry the extra batteries when I get mobile. Once I got all the dimensions of the brackets I made extras and a spacer so I can make more when needed or for friends who can use one.
@riannedrevanderwalt54842 жыл бұрын
Hi Matt, I just want to say that I love how you spread the Gospel simply by wearing a cool shirt! No pressure, no condemnation, simply being the light! Thanks for being an inspiration!
@731Woodworks2 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@dougbowman96512 жыл бұрын
I have several woodpecker measuring devices which have many small holes in them for doing layouts. I have not yet found a marking pencil that fits in the holes for marking . Does the Pica pencil work
@RichardBronosky Жыл бұрын
I want the Kregg tracksaw, but they elected to use a proprietary track. I'm considering the Wen, but I really like that the Kregg travels the opposite direction of all the other brands.
@pteddie69653 жыл бұрын
I'm with you on the turn off switch for the dust collection. I only have one on the Dust Deputy for my table saw, but I absolutely love it. In today's video, I especially liked the Woodpecker's ruler and the sanding pad. Thanks for sharing them with us.
@kyleolson89773 жыл бұрын
I replaced the Kreg Track Saw some time back and I'm pretty happy that I did. I donated it to a family member. It's better than nothing, but it's not nearly as good as some others I have or have used, like the Makita or Festool. As soon as I touched a better Track Saw I realized that the Kreg was not good enough. I can't remember all the little things I didn't like, but one example would be the depth setting system which doesn't make it easy to make gradual changes in the cut depth. When you consider the accessory compatibility, with track squares being very important, it's much better in the long run to get any of the saws that can run on the Festool/Makita tracks.
@jimmeeks26323 жыл бұрын
Track saw works great for edge jointing boards for table tops. Been a game changer for me
@stephanieSimmons2143 жыл бұрын
Absolutely love this series!!! I’ll definitely be picking up a few of these items! Thanks, Matt. And yay! No more missing any meals - especially with Ms Amy’s amazing cooking! 😊🌸
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@paulmood3083 жыл бұрын
Perhaps we need an Amy dinner channel now. 🤔
@MrJKellerLewis2 жыл бұрын
That sanding pad seems like a game changer! Also I love that you put the link to the video about God.
@cccvwbug46463 жыл бұрын
Oh nice. More stuff to keep my tools organized. Thanks and hope to see a review on the Kreg system.
@GrantButler3 жыл бұрын
These definitely made it onto my Wish List now
@bartfoster13113 жыл бұрын
I have the 36v Makita tracksaw and it a real game changer. Once you have a track saw it is hard to go back to ripping with a regular circ saw.
@paulhopkins19053 жыл бұрын
Rip with a table saw, cross cut with the track saw
@davidbodry12562 жыл бұрын
@@paulhopkins1905 yeah u could do it that way but sometimes you don't have a complete shop with table saw and catch table, I do commercial millwork installs and that Makita has saved me on rips as long as 9 feet on African mahogany panels. No wobble, variable speed on miter cut to keep from fraying. I have used them all, Makita for the price is just as good as a top rail panel saw. Would be nice to see a comparison tho
@robertkerby25812 жыл бұрын
Great presentation! Well done! Thank you.
@ThekiBoran3 жыл бұрын
I used my track saw to edge joint some boards for glue up/countertop.
@maddog86473 жыл бұрын
Love the videos. I just found that I have a knack for woodworking and quite enjoy it. I've been accumulating tools over the years, but never knew about a tracksaw until today. That'd definitely make plywood cuts easier. It'll have to wait, but definitely on the list. Thank you for the great videos.
@jessegaylord8060 Жыл бұрын
Your little pocket ruler is marked down to 1/16 not 32nds
@nickheryla2 жыл бұрын
I'm starting a work shop in my garage, a complete beginner outside of woodshop in high school and some construction, mostly a laborer. I bought the kreg acs as my first purchase, was it a good idea as my first cutting tool?
@alexanderadler64903 жыл бұрын
Been saving up for a kreg track saw! Glad you enjoyed it and confirmed my saving ahah! Thanks for the help as always, Matt!
@gtjman13 жыл бұрын
Matt, it sounds like some people have trouble understanding how KZbin works. Of course some don’t ‘need’ all these tools. But you are doing a great job expanding peoples’ minds to other shop tools that they may or may not need. Keep up the great work and [I figure you do already but] ignore the haters.
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@1252PFC3 жыл бұрын
Yes, would be great to win and use that Kreg saw.
@watersd30952 жыл бұрын
Hi Matt, thank you so much for all the info. Love that tool timer auto vacuum switch. I wish I knew about that many moons ago. Got to get it. Keep up the good work, Stay Blessed.
@gioazzarello13333 жыл бұрын
Yes let’s get a review of the track saw!
@brentfowler23173 жыл бұрын
I'd love to see the Kreg tracksaw. I've had my eye in that saw for a while. And would love to see an outlaw review. Lol thanks Matt
@johnmclain65353 жыл бұрын
Great ideas. Just bought those sanding pads!
@MrMlozano793 жыл бұрын
Awesome vid Matt👍 Im definitely getting a track saw, leaning more on makita track saw.
@TheFool6163 жыл бұрын
Love the suggestions brother. You have become my go to for hand gadgets around the shop. Also, greatly appreciate showing love for your fellow makers and recommending their products! Keep at it brother seeing your success and knowledge grow give me confidence in myself.
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
I appreciate that!
@johnvodopija3 жыл бұрын
A good collection of tools and gadgets today. Nice job. Cheers 👍😎🇦🇺
@kboothrealty3 жыл бұрын
Yes kreg track saw review!
@Velly_drums3 жыл бұрын
Just making my I “need” that list longer! Appreciate it 🙂
@aaudain13 жыл бұрын
Great idea 💡 👍 👏 👌
@shinobitree57113 жыл бұрын
I have that kreg saw, and didn't know about the override! I've gotta start reading instructions. 😂
@ronswoodshack38553 жыл бұрын
Track saw would be an extremely helpful tool! Thank you for the content Mighty Matt!!
@vicpic663 жыл бұрын
great video, thanks
@justintaylor1743 жыл бұрын
I’m getting this track saw for Christmas. Would love an in-depth review of the Kreg Track saw.
@Damon_Barber3 жыл бұрын
That power switch for the shop vac is pretty cool. I would recommend setting the delay a little longer just because when both motors start almost simultaneously, you’re putting their Full Load Current on the breaker at the same time. While you may not trip the breaker, this has potential to add extra wear on the breaker.
@Luke-qc1rm3 жыл бұрын
Only wear is possibly on the motors, if they’re unable to get the full starting amperage. Breaker doesn’t care
@johnjss2 жыл бұрын
I am sold...
@JimmyLee07573 жыл бұрын
Those are some COOL tools and I need every one of them but I'd love to get a track saw one day.
@Professor_Porter3 жыл бұрын
I really enjoy your videos! but... $54 for the Paolini Pocket Ruler is a long way off. I have various rulers, squares, and speed squares. All of which, collectively cost less than $54. I like the idea but it won't revolutionize my shop or take the place of all others.
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, oo each his own. I really like it. I like the Woodpeckers products.
@sinsofvorador3 жыл бұрын
Klingspore makes the Sanding disks. They work really good. They have them in like 3 difference thickness
@kylescott62253 жыл бұрын
Love it... hope the holidays are good
@sappersrus80033 жыл бұрын
You don’t need the top of the range to produce good work. Look back on your history as this proves lt…, and why I started watching. Be proud of what you have achieved, and don’t let those with green envy tell you otherwise. Merry Christmas to you and your family
@enricohernandez83563 жыл бұрын
Yes please do a review on the track saw
@sgibby88173 жыл бұрын
Review on the track saw would be pretty cool. Your videos are great. Look forward to the uploads
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
Thank you 🙏🏻
@thattimguy73 жыл бұрын
Kreg also has a guide you attach to your circular saw that is great for the long cuts because it slides along the edge, making it great for mdf sheets.
@unclepewter41612 жыл бұрын
I’m bummed because I went to shop nations Etsy to get a some battery hangers for my truck but he doesn’t have any for Kobalt 😢
@dentonjordan69923 жыл бұрын
Getting it done 👊🏻
@TheDeathblowX3 жыл бұрын
What did you use before a track saw? I can't afford the track saw but I'd like to use my circular saw to rip down sheet goods square - maybe a level?
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
I used a straight edge and also a Kreg rip cut
@TheDeathblowX3 жыл бұрын
@@731Woodworks did the straight edge give you the accuracy you needed? Is the track saw just a quality of life improvement?
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
@@TheDeathblowX No. It gets it close, but not precise. Check out my recent table build with bread board ends. I tried it with a straight edge but it was slightly off.
@TheDeathblowX3 жыл бұрын
@@731Woodworks Thank you for the information. I've been subscribed since you made your first set of end tables. You've grown tremendously since then.
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
Awesome. Thank you for the continued support
@meditationhero11472 жыл бұрын
Hey Matt I just come across your channel I think it's awesome. I'm married to Robin Janice daughter I met you at Williams a few years ago on Christmas. Anyways I come across your channel and I said wait I know that guy. I hope you and your family are doing well I love your videos so keep them coming and maybe I'll see you again a future Christmas take care
@craigvalliere60883 жыл бұрын
Definitely was wondering how good that Craig track saw was so a full review would be awesome thank you and have a great holiday season
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@GyWO103 жыл бұрын
I’d love to see a full review on the track saw
@mbrymckinney13 жыл бұрын
I'm definitely interested in a review/giveaway of that track saw. I plan on buying one this spring and I currently have my eye on a Festool model that is considerably more expensive.
@larrystone57493 жыл бұрын
Good video thx for sharing and the info
@HomesteadingGeek3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Matt,now I have more tools added to my list,next year is going to be awesome finally getting my projects started now that I'll have my workshop set up.
@brookemaples84113 жыл бұрын
Loved the video! Great as always!
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
Thanks again!
@tylersmith2933 жыл бұрын
That track saw. Dang.
@garvielloken39292 жыл бұрын
Nooice! 😎
@A6Legit3 жыл бұрын
Kreg rip cut is on my Christmas list. I like the track saw/accu-cut since im not buying another saw, but Im not sure how I feel about the no clamp "grip". I hate having a loose saw guide, I can't imagine trying to do it with basically a friction grip only.
@sandiegodan3 жыл бұрын
It’s a valid concern and I usually clamp both ends of my track. However, there is a bunch of surface area on the friction strips to help them stay put. I plan to make sure I brush off the piece being cut and the friction strips and start to learn to trust them. On a side note, I’ve also used the track as a circle cutter with a router base attached to it. In that situation I had to use painters tape over the friction strips to allow them to slide.
@A6Legit3 жыл бұрын
@@sandiegodan Thanks for the feedback. I think I would clamp them as well but it kind of defeats the purpose of how quick it is not needing clamps. Is it meant to accept a router base? I made a circle jig for my router but thats an interesting use.
@sandiegodan3 жыл бұрын
@@A6Legit I have the Dewalt track saw and they sell a router attachment that works with their track. It’s a little sketchy to hold everything in place but it has a great range and adjustability. I needed to make a 40” Dia and 30” circle for a tool carousel and the track seemed like my best option.
@woodworksbygrampies12842 жыл бұрын
Hola! 🖐 I really like these videos, your recommendations have a lot of value. Cool that you mentioned Travis over @shop nation, I've been watching him for a while also. I really like the tool timer switch. Keep these style videos coming. Take care and have a good one! :D 👊
@dougadams67633 жыл бұрын
Good video, man. You do good work.
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
I appreciate that!
@nmurphy72813 жыл бұрын
Would definitely like to see a track saw video!
@asoggyburger4793 жыл бұрын
Your content and production is getting better all the time. Love the channel and keep up the good work! Can’t wait to add that track saw to my arsenal some day lol
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@profcah3 жыл бұрын
Love your content. Great stuff!!
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
I appreciate that!
@LuisTL443 жыл бұрын
That’s awesome love your channel great content and you make me feel that you’re taking to me not at me and I really appreciate that
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
I appreciate that
@mkelly65913 жыл бұрын
Yes, please do a giveaway for the track saw!
@cyrusandrewperry3 жыл бұрын
Matt, love the t-shirts and the series. I am currently in the market for a track saw so would definitely welcome a comparison. I have been very close to grabbing the kreg while in Lowe’s so I have to be careful where I walk in that store.
@nialstewart82633 жыл бұрын
One good feature of the keg is that the blade is in the left, so if you're right handed you can see what's going on. Most of the rest are the other way round which is bonkers (IMHO)
@MichaelBrown-kk6ck2 жыл бұрын
Understand that feeling. That’s how I ended up with six cats from Petsmart. Just can’t walk out of there without a cat, so now I get cat food from Amazon so I don’t have to go to Petsmart.
@jonathanadams43743 жыл бұрын
Let’s go 731!
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
👊
@scottswannie25003 жыл бұрын
Hey Matt. Great suggestions and always a cool shirt. Love your passion for Christ, and woodworking. I love the looks of and functionality of those Woodpecker tools, but man are they expensive. And, Amazon only sells those Pocket rules in a set of three. I just want the small one. Does anyone sell just the small 7” one? Oh, and that Kreg saw is the bomb. Clean cutting. Oh how technology has progressed.
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
Yes you can buy them directly from them here www.woodpeck.com/ppr-2019.html
@scottswannie25003 жыл бұрын
@@731Woodworks Thanks. I found the single purchase. Got the 8” one.
@scottswannie25003 жыл бұрын
I like Woodpecker tools, but they’re expensive and say they ship in 4 to six weeks. Ouch. Likely won’t buy from them again. I ordered one Rule and they confirmed it’ll take 4 to 6 weeks. That’s pretty ridiculous if it’s being made in USA. Oh well.
@pecosR0B3 жыл бұрын
lmao the wife waiting and leaving on the shop vac lolololol
@blademanu73 жыл бұрын
Cool 😎 man
@lenovo9913 жыл бұрын
I would love to see the review and a give-away would defiantly make the wife happier then me buying it haha!
@jimcastino3 жыл бұрын
I would like to see a review, comparing the Kreg version with other brands? Kreg is okay in most cases, but some of their tools and jigs use too much plastic, and not enough use of metal parts.
@russmartin41893 жыл бұрын
My middle name is KREG. I own the entire Kreg Adaptive Cutting System. I also own two extra tracks that I keep joined together for breaking down plywood. AND I own both sets of stops that I can preset to a certain width, so I can make certain width cuts without having to measure.. NOTE: Cut your plywood about a quarter inch wider than necessary, then cut to size on the table saw. All in all, the Kreg Plunge Saw and Track is a great tool, that is a bargain compared to others. Kreg, if you are listening, I would like you to make an arm that attaches to the track so I can line it up square on the edge of plywood every time.
@d123avek13 жыл бұрын
I believe you are asking for what they call a parallel jig, which is currently available from several manufacturers
@russmartin41893 жыл бұрын
@@d123avek1 I have Kreg's parallel guides, but they can slip. I would like to turn the track and plunge saw into a giant Rip Cut with a bar that locks onto the track at a 90 degree angle.
@d123avek13 жыл бұрын
@@russmartin4189 Nice idea Russ 👍
@ugaladh3 жыл бұрын
Subscribed. good info, well presented and Not Pretentious. there are certain youtube famous woodworkers that I just cannot watch because they rub me the wrong way.
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
thanks
@HoneyHollowHomestead3 жыл бұрын
Was I looking in the wrong place?! I was interested in that little pocket rule. You said it wasn't that expensive. I clicked on your link. It was $60!!!!! Sorry, in my books, that is NOT inexpensive! That is VERY pricy!
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
I said "As far as Woodpecker's tools go...." it was inexpensive. Compared to their other tools, it is inexpensive.
@mattmayes5993 жыл бұрын
Sometimes the price you find on Amazon will be more than buying the item from another site or directly from the manufacturer.
@anarablehill56913 жыл бұрын
I want that track saw now. One of the main reasons I don't start a lot of projects is I have wrestle a 4x8 onto my job site table saw. I say forget it I'll design something smaller...
@jackflash79053 жыл бұрын
If you buy from a big box store, they’ll be happy to loosely break down the large sheet material to fit into your vehicle. Enough to make much easier on your jobsite saw.
@mrsicness13 жыл бұрын
I am supremely impressed with this series, and your presentation as a whole (i havent had time to check many of your other vids out yet). Ive been a woodworker under others for about 2 decades, and i already know a lot, but i only personally own some hand tools, and an eclectic collection of power tools (all battery powered). Ive been wanting to invest in shop tools, but storage space is an issue (no personal workshop....yet) You videos have given me some insight into what exactly i need to invest in. Thank you for making content, and i hope to see more from you going forward.
@geraldrandall97753 жыл бұрын
I would love a full review on the Craig Tracksaw
@steelsunpi3 жыл бұрын
Been thinking of getting an actual track saw to replace my homemade track that my circular saw rides on. It works OK, but does have some issues (mostly that the clamps getting in the way of the saw housing.)
@avionicbug Жыл бұрын
like the shirts need more info.
@FenierH3 жыл бұрын
I quite like the Kreg Track Saw, when combined with the rest of the Adaptive Cutting System (or similar) it does a fantastic job for ensuring repeatable cuts. Def a good option if you can't afford the Festool Saw and Multi-Function Table. Would love to hear your thoughts on the saw. I ended up with one after I was trying to square up a oversized table top that wouldn't fit safely on my jobsite saw.
@SteveinJersey12342 жыл бұрын
I'll add my Plus 1 to this. I have been using the Kreg track saw and ACS table for several years now and it is without doubt my best investment. Fantastic versatility and accuracy. In my experience the built in measuring rules and stop blocks in the ACS make the Kreg system WAY easier and more straightforward to use than a Festool or any other 20mm MFT alternative. When I got into woodworking several years ago I made a very deliberate decision to invest in a track saw / MFT system over a table saw, both for space and for safety reasons. Several years later, I couldn't be happier with this decision as the ACS (along with a small router table) have completely obviated my need for a table saw for the applications I have. And frankly I believe it's more accurate.
@johnfrederickson30823 жыл бұрын
Please do a review on the Kreg track saw/
@GregsWorkshopOregon3 жыл бұрын
I picked up the Kreg Track Saw last month, it’s been great. I go the second track with the connector pieces but I haven’t used it yet. I’m going to do a review on mine soon but I’d love to hear your thoughts and experience too.
@RichardBronosky Жыл бұрын
I want the Kregg, but they elected to use a proprietary track. I'm considering the Wen, but I really like that the Kregg travels the opposite direction of all the other brands.
@LowVlogDrives3 жыл бұрын
I got a question, do u think we should wear a respirator while cutting or sanding? I've noticed when I clean myself up after working, uhhhhhh, it's stuff n my nose lol 😆
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
yes, I use RZ masks
@LowVlogDrives3 жыл бұрын
@@731Woodworks thank you
@redrider31412 жыл бұрын
How has the vacuum switch been holding up?
@aarontheamateur3 жыл бұрын
I’m looking for the sanding pad you had in the video. It had a hole in the middle, but the link doesn’t seem to be that same one. Can you tell me what the one you used in the video was?
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
I just added it to the description. Thanks
@willboybrad3 жыл бұрын
Just curious,where did you get your wedding band from? Thanks love your videos
I'm interested in the pros and cons and an over all different between the track and circular saw. Would love to see a review in it
@MaxG6283 жыл бұрын
My take: if you cut sheet goods larger than 2’x4’ more than once a month, get a track saw. If you only deal with large sheets a few times a year, get a cordless circular saw and the Kreg Accu-Cut.
@BillCoale3 жыл бұрын
Me too! The track systems for circ saws are so much cheaper (especially if you already have a quality circ). I saw a brief overview comparison a while back that boiled it down to the 2 biggest differences: track saws have the plunge cut features and they can hook in to dust extractors. But I'd love to see a more detailed comparison.
@goali39033 жыл бұрын
Nice video Matt. I’d love to see a budget tracksaw comparison. Kreg/Wen/I’m sure I’m missing some of the other cheaper ones. Maybe even including circular saw and straight edge.
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
I thought about that. I have a Festool cordless one on order. Would be cool to pair the Wen vs Kreg vs Festool
@goali39033 жыл бұрын
@@731Woodworks definitely! Didn’t include it because I figured it would double the cost of making the video.
@sidranshu3 жыл бұрын
Running for a little longer after stopping the tool let's the motor clear what's left in the hose, also helps keeps the motor life up as short runs and stopping before full spinup can be bad for em.
@badtolz2122 Жыл бұрын
"As far as Lamborghini's go, this one is pretty cheap"
@brettpeckinpaugh3 жыл бұрын
I like the Kreg but when I get another track saw it needs to be cordless so I can take it to the store with me for when the panel saw is broken. Which is often.
@tomparisi8043 жыл бұрын
Hey Matt just joined the channel and I am loving it! Your delivery is awesome so even a newbie can start doing woodworking the right and smart way! Quick question I am looking to purchase a jointer :) - was wondering how you are liking your Wahuda unit - I am looking at the 8 inch model - there is lots of criticism about eh plastic handles/knobs on the fence - was looking to get your opinion - Have a Merry Christmas and to Miss 731 as well! Keep the videos and love the Power Tips!! TYVM!
@ronin29633 жыл бұрын
Great demo. I hope each one of those companies gives you a sponsorship. Because none of those tool are cheap. They are drool worthy. I have a few question Mr 731. First, do you have proper hearing protection for your shop. If so what do you recommend? Second, What does 731 represent?
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
I use Iso Tunes and 3M WorkTunes in the shop sometimes. I mainly wear Apple Aipods or PowerBeats Pro. 731 is my wife and I's anniversary. July 31.
@jonreeves39933 жыл бұрын
how does the track stay in place?
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
It has grippy base. It is likely best to clamp it down with track clamps but it stays in place really well.
@daxkayzar48773 жыл бұрын
Didn’t realize this was one big infomercial.
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
🙄 this guy
@99trampis3 жыл бұрын
Dude! I love your vids but you're making me spend money haha! Just subscribed, keep up the great work~
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the sub!
@milleradam983 жыл бұрын
Great video keep up the awesome content. So question, I'm in the middle of building a workbench, I bought some CA glue through your link (starter kit thin, med, thick w/activator), I'm not going to stain in just rub some linseed oil when I'm finished. That being said I have a few holes I'm going to use the CA for then sand it down, since I'm not going to stain it what's your opinion on mixing some sawdust with it to fill crevices? Which viscosity and what ratio? Thanks I appreciate your suggestions
@731Woodworks3 жыл бұрын
I'd probably test it on some scrap to see what worked best. I'd try medium first. If that doesn't work well, try the thin