5 ways FORM work can RUIN your game (Trust me I know...)

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[@happyboyeeeee]

1) There aren’t many good coaches, if any. Most are just awful, and people are wasting a lot of money and time on them, then I get to see their comments about how terrible their coaching experience has been. There’s entire threads about people’s coaching experiences in disc golf - it’s depressing. 2) Agree, but a coach wouldn’t know every reaction and what is the cause of it either. Looking for movements can be the cause of many other movements. Without knowing what the athlete is doing, all you or a coach can do is guess, and this is what makes coaching this sport so difficult. 3) Yeah, I agree for the most part. 4) You can’t just have fun and learn. Well you can, but only gifted athletes can do that. Most people have to train hard to improve. Otherwise, have fun, but without learning how to properly throw. There are plenty of people out there satisfied with 250 feet of distance, and that’s fine, but they’ll never achieve big distance because they’ve already given up on it. 5) Mostly point 4, but your last point of it I disagree with. Pros aren’t, pros don’t worry much, hmm, actually thinking of pros such as Paul McBeth recently, your whole point is just mute. Look, pros worry about their form, and they’re constantly trying to work on it. You can be as good as Paul McBeth, but you’ll still be criticizing and working on your own form. Paul has said it, and his form has evolved over the years to look different from previous years. So even for elite-level disc golfers, they’re still chasing every foot, every inch of extra distance they can get. The old golf adage applies here I think - for those serious into golf, you’ll never have a perfect form until the day you die.

[@dgspindoctor]

Oh you negative Nellie 😘.

[@happyboyeeeee]

@@dgspindoctor I don’t think I’m negative. I think I’m being realistic. I do think you’re the best of online coach “material.” The funny thing is, the other day I was watching a thread, and the number of people replying and in general agreement that Josh at Overthrow was completely full of shit was amusing. I think he’s okay, but I don’t think that much of him. Prove me wrong. Anyways continue pulling, or bending, or pushing, or whatever makes you feel good. The real question is, can you throw a fairway further than a driver nose down? My guess is most can’t even do that nose up, and most of the rest can’t even do that nose down. For the others, do you bend or do you pull? I’d bet, as with many of the rest of us, you don’t even know. You can call me what you want, but I represent a large number of, hmm, those of us who are trying to be better, but after years of hardship, we have nothing to offer. Pull, bend, whatever, you can’t throw over 400. It doesn’t matter, the secret remains with the pros and those with money or the inside information as those tips go nowhere. It’s literally a joke at this point - not my own - I wish - but, others have beat me to it in a recent reddit thread - pulling/bending it doesn’t matter - it’s all a waste of time and a joke. It won’t give you 500 feet. 500 feet. God, that’s now so 10 years ago. What am I even saying now? It’s the 2020s. Discs have improved so much that if you know how to throw, it should be, say 550-600 feet? The struggle should now be 600 feet with disc tech today versus a decade ago. 600 feet is not even asking for a lot, but for a standard distance, I think it’s a fair number as an easy distance for anyone who knows what they’re doing, and maybe 700-750 for elite distance, but Eagle beat that, flat, without trying not long ago, so maybe closer to 750 feet for those who know what they’re doing. I’ve been in search of real, pure, true (?) form for over a decade now, but I don’t think it exists. I got over 400 feet several times, but not with good form. Effortless, but shite form. I’ve been coached. Waste of time. Got coached on material that I didn’t even do. In fact, I’ve trolled coaches to prove they don’t have any idea of what they’re doing. I’ve demonstrated they don’t know. They’re scam artists, just trying to get money - prove me wrong. Tell me what I’m doing wrong. Please, tell me what I’m actually doing in the film you’re reviewing. Tell me again that I’m doing such and such, when I’m not doing any of that. I’m very aware of what I’m doing. I should be, as I’ve been doing this for well over a decade now. I don’t have any hope to improve. I only have my frustrations, shared by many others, clearly demonstrated online. I wish to throw 500 feet, but I think that day has now passed, and most likely never could have been possible, and definitely not with any talking heads full of promises.

[@dgspindoctor]

Oh, you definitely are very negative. I'm sad to hear about your struggles, but you know... you compare yourself to Eagle and others, exceptionally talented young men built optimally to throw frisbees. But that's okay, I've been there too, and it gets better over time when you let go of the resentment and start enjoying what you have. I am not kidding or trolling, I mean this. Play with what you have, improve YOURSELF with your tools, and the results will follow. I know it sounds bad, but it's not. One thing I hope you let go of is the grudge for other people. Like us coaches you seem to blame for your bad luck in life. Like, are you really saying I'm not a good coach, because I can't throw 600 feet? I actually have done it, several times to be honest, but to be fair, only using the 360 run-up. And 500 is nothing special to me even at this age. What a weird thing to assume I can't throw a disc, hah. That being said, what does my capibility of performing a highly athletic, explosive motion that requires suitable body and limbs have to do with knowing how to teach one to do that? I'm an old achy dude, born with a back problem, and you want me to outperform 99 percent of the field before I can teach?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

@@happyboyeeeee It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. Teddy Roosevelt

[@happyboyeeeee]

@@OverthrowDiscGolf I’ve been in the so-called arena here for a great many years, only to fail again and again and again, with nothing to show for it. Having been around all things disc golf for so many years, I think I can be a critic.

[@Lerppasd7]

Thank you Jaani, I really needed to hear this. I'm currently doing field work sessions three times per week with a goal to learn how to comfortably and consistently throw 120m (400ft) drives. My current consistent drive range is around 100m (330ft). An unfortunate side effect of this is that my course game has gotten significantly worse. When something clicks in the field, it's really hard to bring that to the course where you can't get the reps in. At the course I feel like my body is conflicting between two forms, the old comfortable one and the new "field" form. I've started to understand that this is the price to pay when trying to teach your body new things, but with enough practice I'm confident it will all be worth it in the end. Sometimes it's hard to keep a positive mindset at the course because of this, but your points were really encouraging, so thanks.

[@dgspindoctor]

One step back to get two steps forward. That is the small price. But do avoid the big price tag, which is the never ending grind, greed and dissatisfaction you might have once you get that 400. Trust the process, nothing good comes out of forcing it. You got this!

[@gerrylepage4573]

AMEN TO POINT #3!! Guilty as charged!!

[@entropie]

Hey DG Spin Doctor, you are the Bruce Lee of Disc Golf coaches 👊

[@dgspindoctor]

Oh shit, gotta work on that six pack then.

[@entropie]

@@dgspindoctor it was more in reference to his philosophy and teachings. 🧐 Luckily you don't have to lose much to get that six pack, i have faith.

[@dgspindoctor]

Haha, I have tried my best but as someone roasted me before, I stay a 40 year old skinnyfat.

[@andrewjung6987]

Does that make slingshot the Steven Seagal?

[@entropie]

@@andrewjung6987 possibly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@nivavicmarecsal3522]

Disc golf was a lot more fun for me before all the nice courses (around me anyway) were designed for 400 foot arms. After coming back to disc golf after a 7ish year hiatus, i played local courses and realized 325-350 just does not play anymore. So many holes where im better off going putter-putter-putter because i cant reach the 400 foot baskets anyway and am taking a 3 no matter what. I miss thinking "if i throw a good shot I'll have a chance at birdie." I never stressed too much about form until i realized if i want to ever make a birdie again i need to be able to throw 375-400 foot disc golf lines, which im struggling to reach. Working on it as much as i can though 👍

[@tonyatemple4657]

This might be the best advice out there! I never practiced golf and played for years. Then I tore my knee and completely lost faith in my throw. Started a form rebuild to protect my knee and it led to the most frustration bc while my knee feels safer, I got way worse. Got too focused on trying new form tips that never fully resonate, and lost my love. I was grinding so much and was so discouraged that it wasn't clicking still. Now I'm still practicing but always trying to have fun while doing so, and learning to let go of the outcome of a shot. Playing my best golf so far this year and it's great having fun again

[@sandonhoneyman]

On #4, I agree. I get sucked into the next coaching videos and think "oh ya, that might just fix my form and improve my distance", but only a few things have. Many have just made me worse and discouraged me. I keep trying to do too many changes at once as well which exacerbates the problem. If I just try to remember to just throw the way I do, I play way better and have more fun. The only problem is I don't know if I'm gaining any distance just playing my usual way, but I need to remember I can always improve one thing at a time in the future. As others have said, work on accuracy, distance will come later.

[@sarinhighwind]

Killer advice!

[@UtahDarkHorse]

You're my favorite coach. Thank you.

[@dgspindoctor]

Wow, thank you!

[@CodeSlinger]

Ha ha, I love the way you ended that video, "throw the damn disc".

[@dgspindoctor]

You know, I always talk about myself and to myself... ☺️

[@johnroberts1009]

Best advice for amateur players I have ever heard. You covered topics and points that are so important and relevant for all of us no matter our skill level. I think you just described a lot of us, myself included. Your last comment of throw the disc and put it in the basket. That really is the fun part and that’s what I’m going to think about next time I play. Thanks for reminding us of the most important part in having fun playing the game.

[@dgspindoctor]

I've done a lot of self-reflecting lately. I'm talking to myself here. Because nobody had made the video for me to watch, I had to do it.

[@saqeltube]

Best advice evers!

[@dgspindoctor]

Thanks!

[@JPWitt]

What I would give to have a 30 minute field work/practice session with you. So thankful my buddy introduced me to your channel. I share it with people any chance I get!

[@dgspindoctor]

Thanks! Probably you would have to come to Europe (if you are not already) because working in the States is not possible for me (or at least it's made very hard) even if I wanted to.

[@JPWitt]

@dgspindoctor getting out there is on my bucket list! I'm just a huge fan from Dallas Tx that appreciates all the help you have provided :).

[@dgspindoctor]

I appreciate your support!

[@matgbx]

Did Presnel dirty haha. I agree that his form doesn't quite pass the eye test, but he gets results and the form works for him so that's what matters. Good video as always!

[@KhufuhK]

I don't think he did Presnel dirty at all. Presnel's form is sub optimal but he practiced enough to become consistent and had a good mental game. Jaani said exactly that and complimented it.

[@dgspindoctor]

He gets the job done! Better than most of us, or the pros.

[@matgbx]

@@KhufuhK Yea... I know I watched the video too. Thought it was funny cause of the timing of the Presnel clip and what he was saying. Clearly you didn't read past my first statement

[@matgbx]

@@dgspindoctor Without a doubt

[@KhufuhK]

@@matgbx I read it and your second sentence didn't disqualify your first so why act like it did?

[@micdavey]

I mean, the big point here is don't forget to have fun, which I completely agree with. But there's also a pretty low ceiling to improvement if you're not willing to struggle through getting better. Should anyone go through that struggle is something totally up to them! I definitely agree on the looking at pros point and thinking some position means x when it actually means y or z or all of m, n, and o and maybe other things too. I think more often than not some specific body position is not the result of telling your body to get in that position, but it's either the indirect result of something else or it happens by trying to get into some other position.

[@dgspindoctor]

Hear hear!

[@thefleetfarmer1815]

Happy to hear other disc golf content creators name drop DG Spin Dr and say he is one of the best out there You take the abstract theoretical form tips and somehow translate it all into a way that clicks

[@dgspindoctor]

Who's doing that?

[@TwoOneSe7en]

I felt this. I’ve created my own worst enemy. I almost refuse to post my form online because it doesn’t measure up to my own expectations of *looking* “pro”. It’s a trap.

[@dgspindoctor]

It is. Take a step back and start enjoying the game like you're a beginner again.

[@lucascarmonadesign]

First your work is the best, honest, candid and fun. Do you have any videos around playing golf, the strategy of playing in a tournament as a New player. disc selection, mentality.. Form and throwing are necessary I get that but sticking to a game plan, hitting lines, woods, open, wind elevation? are really key factors.. Any advice on those

[@dgspindoctor]

I try to help myself first. I'll get back to you when I break my fear of life.

[@craigbeavers8764]

💪

[@D3w4yne]

Jaani, if we need that outside coaching perspective on our form, do you offer such a service? I'm literally my own worst enemy with form and every modification I make changes my game and makes my own local courses torture. I've fallen into the trap.

[@dgspindoctor]

At some point I'm going to give video lessons, I'm sure.

[@ContentsMayDiffer]

The first concrete form tip I ever got was "the arm should not be used". It took me almost two years to for my body to adapt and for me to understand it.

[@dgspindoctor]

The arm should be used.

[@ContentsMayDiffer]

@@dgspindoctor I know that now, but back then I was strongarming it, not letting it go at the right time. Your videos were my key to understanding it.

[@dgspindoctor]

Yeah, the arm can move without giving it much tension. That is THE number one problem my students have.

[@kruksog]

The arm is absolutely used. I screamed seeing your comment. The arm is not the only mover, and a lot of people screw that up, hence why you think what you think. But the arm moves for sure.

[@discbole]

Been there done thet

[@haukikannel]

I have some different opinions. I did/do have sport backround. I did use a lot of power with really bad form and I did break my hand… Looking some basic form advices could have preventing it… But consentrating too much to form… yeah… that is not good for mind and even not for the form. Now I try to teach very basics tech to new players, seing that they do not hurt themselves and after that leave them having fun!

[@dgspindoctor]

Well I think you have the exact same opinion as I do!

[@ClimbTimeRC]

I stopped playing pdga tournaments for a while. My rating has dropped 20 points from the high 980s to low 960s from focusing on form work. Just not smart to try and do form and play well. Need to just focus on one or the other imo. I am however playing leagues and i find its a great place to work on new stuff while still having some competition and playing with other people.

[@dgspindoctor]

Hey, join the club. My rating dropped from 980 to 880, then got to 930 and now I can't play anymore. So that's it for me, but at least I can teach.

[@mightypensword]

My 2 cents: don't be afraid to change your throw and temporarily ruin your accuracy. The main goal for a serious player should always be to add power to your throw. Accuracy can be attained after. If you are stuck at 350 ft, you will never birdie the 400 ft holes. If you ruin your accuracy for two years straight in order to get to 450, you will be much happier about it in the long run. IMO, the worst thing you can do is be satisfied with your ultra-accurate weak drives, and just tell yourself that it's just because you're "built that way". Lastly, stop telling yourself that playing rounds with your friends is helping you get better; the majority of your time should be spent on field work. Unless you're just there to hang out. In that case, none of this matters.

[@dgspindoctor]

Golden.

[@frederiklundov3923]

I am an adult playing with my body - yes :D

[@dgspindoctor]

We all are, right :)

[@datrucksdavea2080]

Kinda like fixing a car 1 part at a time

[@dgspindoctor]

Username checks out.

[@datrucksdavea2080]

@@dgspindoctor ?

[@dgspindoctor]

Your username implies that you are an expert in cars, so no wonder you made that analogy.

[@datrucksdavea2080]

No expert at car care, but know how to make friends with mechanics. And in developing a better backhand trying new things one at a time works best for me. Your series does a good job at that approach. Ty