591: The Social Gospel Strikes Back & Plodding Through Life with Drew Dyck

[@emilytaylor2623]

If as Zahnd says that the purpose of prayer is not that we get God to do what we think God ought to do, but that we be properly formed, then prayer as a part of our political work is immensely important. If it's just a justification so we can do what we want with "God's blessing," then its best left out.

[@battlejitney2197]

This interview with Drew Dyck was such a breath of fresh air. The whole discussion reinforced my suspicion that “do more, try harder” Christianity is NOT how God wants us to relate with him. Thanks for saying it’s more than ok to be faithful servant in the mundane, smaller roles in life.

[@ELM-ee8bt]

Just found this podcast. Omg I did not think the creator of veggie tales was so cool! This is a breath of fresh air for me. I'm a socialist and I've recently found my faith again. It's depressing seeing Christianity tied to the far right in this country.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

One other factor of “Christian Nashvillism” is that the Nashville product is often upper-middle-class WASP culture, and there’s a Protestant in there but that’s only one of many aspects of that culture. “Taking the name in vain” is a commandment I’d love to hear more scholarship about. An old colleague who washed out of ministry and ended up being an inspector of fisheries rather than a fisher of men once explained it as not using the name of God to curse people frivolously because of the expectation that God would follow through and your faith would bring unjustified misery. Not sure if his theology (and cultural context of the period) was accurate, he held some pretty weird views on a couple of other subjects, but the thought of what that commandment means has stayed with me. It’s definitely not about using Carlin’s seven.

[@2serve4Christ]

26:35 James 5:4 Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

“Cries of the reapers” is a bit ominous.

[@2serve4Christ]

@@Justanotherconsumer For ref: NKJV

[@harlanbarnhart4656]

I laughed when Skye said no one pays attention to the Thessalonians verse on leading a quiet life and working with your hands. I heard this verse many times growing up in church, but maybe that's because I am a Mennonite... Maybe it's "our" verse.

[@lisacrews3060]

Quakers came to my mind when he said it

[@kishprime7719]

"I'd rather have one mission than a thousand opportunities" is such an era-appropriate quote.

[@FancyPantsBionicle]

Dang, your interview with Drew couldn't have come at a better time! I really needed to hear it today and it was a real blessing to me. Thank you guys!

[@lagsaur]

I was really excited when I heard Kaitlyn would be hosting The Disrupters and I haven't been disappointed!

[@VinceOConnor]

Just followed the Disruptors podcast. Looking forward to listening to it!

[@auadisian]

When the episode shows up on KZbin, it is morning in America but afternoon and night in other places....

[@Anabee3]

🙂 yeah. I'm in Wa State, so it's only 4:30a. (Tues) for me. Im SO tempted to get 2more hrs sleep before I MUST start getting ready for work,, but I know if I do, it'll make it even worse (funny how that works, right?) So I'll just drink coffee & GET MY TOAST!

[@auadisian]

@@Anabee3 If it's breakfast, then it will be on Thursday for me

[@robertsandberg2246]

​@@Anabee3I'm in Washington state too.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@robertsandberg2246the better Washington. Last time I was flying from DCA to SEA we were trapped on the plane for like 6 hours because of a storm.

[@peterward6625]

I live in Australia so we are already in Tomorrow Land....according to the International Date Line. So if anyone tells you in the USA or thereabouts that the world is going to end tomorrow give us a ring first...and get excited (or worried) if no one answers ;-).

[@complexmindsimpleman6642]

Thank you, Skye, for bringing some of the dialog back to Earth and anchoring it in lived reality

[@BobbyGreyEagle]

38:20 brother Skye gets surprised by our sister's pop culture knowledge. Well done Kaitlyn!

[@chadpaynedmin]

This was such a great interview. Thank you!

[@bethprather9241]

Hurry up with the robot story. ..thank God in Poland and I heard your comments in the end when I love Phil and Veggie Tales.. His calm telling if this crazy news.. I could do without !! 😂The best comment on the entire story is Skye ," I'm still confused & trying to find out where Poland gets their sugar at."..love it!!

[@holyfreak8]

Now following Kaitlyn's new podcast😎

[@kevinwillems8720]

Also I think Sky isn't quite seeing what's happening. This isn't a chicken or egg situation. It's both religion and ideology informing eachother.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

That’s not what I’ve observed. It’s usually ideology first, then religion used as a marketing tool. Not sure what the equivalent is, but with marketing there’s something called “greenwashing” - selling a product by pandering to the conservation values of the consumer. “Earth friendly” products where they’ll plant a tree or something when you buy some clearly environmentally damaging thing. Divine Sanction is an ancient propaganda tool (marketing and propaganda use the same techniques) and this is often just slapping a “Jesus friendly” label on the orphan crushing machine. There is no informing, the ideology is just using the trappings of religion. Inwardly ravening wolves - not like Jesus didn’t see it coming.

[@bethprather9241]

I live in Ky and yes I know Nashville and Country Music are tied to Christian music. They also had the Broadway press and in my life the more you go South the more you are in the Bible Belt. That doesn't mean that God doesn't use them. The entire Evangelical white whatever is still not all. I want to learn but I also pray people are seeing truth. It has been VERY hard on me that left Southern Baptist a few years ago. It doesn't mean that my roots aren't grounded and I can pray ans sew truth. I have had Beth Moore studies that are life changing. I read her book and reviewed it recently and it hurt bad. But all of us that know truth need to pray harder and move on... We have a job. I can learn all this but I have now again heard more on Christian Nationalism?? I really looked it up a long time ago and knew it was a mess. I thought it was more about that right/ right group in congress... Amy Bolgert or whoever? Sadly she told gun jokes at a family Christian Congress that hit the web and it was about If Jesus had guns. The truth we all know is how sad and horrible her joke in even using that means she doesn't know Jesus at all. So pray and learn and oh my I don't want a headache...

[@bkucenski]

When it comes to politics, I vote for those who don't oppress people in the public square. The rest, needs to be directed at the churches. It doesn't matter what the law is, the church needs to take care of the poor. And politics is about getting the government out of the way. California now set aside a ton of red tape in California so churches and schools can build affordable housing on their unused land. Capitalists like Dave Ramsey were told by their "pastor" that they could hoard wealth. Dave Ramsey proudly broadcast that. He should review the story of the Young Prophet and the Old Prophet. The lion didn't bother the old prophet. If the rich don't want to pay people, then taxes are necessary. And then the politics is getting that money to the people who need it.

[@robbower5489]

You are truly insane. I would love to see your tax return vs Dave Ramsey. I’m going to go out on a limb and say he gives waaay more in percentage of income than you if you give at all.

[@averageuser4367]

​@@robbower5489that's like saying someone hoarding food donates more to a food pantry than people that are barely getting by. If they didn't hoard, there wouldn't be so many people starving in the first place. You really need to spend more time actually reading what Scripture has to say about wealth and less time insulting people you disagree with.

[@robbower5489]

I think accusing Dave Ramsey of hoarding is insulting unless you have some inside knowledge of his finances. I’m also going to go out on a limb and suggest you likely live in a 1st world country and no matter how poor you are, you are within the richest 5% to ever walk the earth. But I’m sure you won’t consider yourself a hoarder?

[@averageuser4367]

@@robbower5489 is he a millionaire?

[@robbower5489]

Apparently he is. Your point?

[@adamrshields]

It is a year old or so, but I would enjoy Kaitlyn interviewing Mark Noll about his most recent book on this history of the use of the Bible in the US (America's Book). I think that Kaitlyn is right that there is a history to the use of the Bible for social and ethical implications across the political spectrum but also looking at that history can help us understand the better and less good uses today. Also I would love to see someone write a history of the use of civil religious discourse over the 20th century. From my perspective it was mostly mainline to liberal or progressives that thought that Christian civil region was a good thing (oppose communism, improve morals, define what it meant to be part of the cultural majority) while conservatives to fundamentalists were more skeptical about civil religion because of a greater emphasis on personal faith. But similar to the ways that there was a realignment of the political parties between the Democrats and the GOP in many of the positions from the 1930s to the early 21st century, I think there was a realignment in the believe and use of civil religion. Today those that are most positive about civil religion are conservatives and those most skeptical are the mainline and progressives. The reasons have changed but there is an interesting shift in opinions about civil religion that I think would make for an interesting history book.

[@kevinwillems8720]

I really think you should read The War on Everyone by Robert Evans, it covers the history of fascism in America and often covers how Christianity is woven into it.

[@Anabee3]

I'm going to see if my local library has that book. Thanks 😊. I'm still alittle confused in that area. What if there are politicians (& other ppl) who are not racist & DO welcome refugees/immigrants & DO know that God wouldn't give us us a commandment without making a way (financially & otherwise), but, at the same time, they know that NO ONE separates their ethics from their politics & that God does judge nations? What if it's not that they want blessings, but just don't want his wrath? Arent our nation's laws supposed to align with God's laws as much as we wretched humans can possibly do? Shouldn't our nation be Christ-centered, just as our homes? A cpl months ago, Caitlin pointed out that Jesus knows the best way we should live as individuals & community. That stuck w/me. So...What if it's about that & not about race? Any thoughts?.

[@kevinwillems8720]

@Anabee3 you don't actually need to, it's completely free to read online. There's also two versions of the audiobook, a straightforward kind, and one that he reads live with Cody Johnston and Katy Stoll.

[@kevinwillems8720]

@Anabee3 a warning on the live reading, depending on your comedic sensibilies, you might not like that version.

[@kevinwillems8720]

@Anabee3 I'd drop a link but youtube doesn't like it when I do that

[@kevinwillems8720]

​@Anabee3 ope, turns out the audiobook is on KZbin in its direct form kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYjVi6iifsd8fKMsi=k4aa9wnBQ4TyOjbx

[@bethprather9241]

Amen Kaitlyn on your response that starts around 31... There is always truth... There is.a middle ground and Christ is first always.. God's soventry is huge. I do pray all true Christians do pray to lead them if political. We are one nation under the real God. But sep of Church and state is a yes too. We are called to share Jesus. Our Presidents still swear on the true Bible. But not what we have just gone thru that honestly God is in control. And a MESS is true. Skye is well read and yes I'm educated with a MA in Ele Ed. Those that hit the capital on Jan 6 or Trumpers that sadly I have saw too many, aren't on the level or thinking all of your knowledge Skye I'm learning...### I'm so with Kaitlyn .. Neo - Nazi 's we know arent praying to the same God. Now I need to watch The Arc of the Covenent.. What Skye says about the how and why.. of life eternal.. IDk?

[@bethprather9241]

Skye saying the teaching sign up because of social injustice... Not thar but I'm 53 and I live in Ky we are starting to have more black people in Christian churches... But Skye saying the eternity is Jesus is coming back and Doctrine of heaven is still being taught and I doubt most know it came from a sign up against the Civil Rights

[@bethprather9241]

I agree and get Skye at 47.. praying and using is absolutely 2 different things .. DICERNMENT.. SMEN

[@aosidh]

Yay UAW! Solidarity forever! As an outsider, I've always wondered how Christians are so enthusiastic for capitalism/against socialism. Am I reading JC wrong when he says things like "you can't serve both god and money"?

[@Justanotherconsumer]

“Christian” in American culture often means something other than Christ.

[@robbower5489]

Socialists don’t use money?

[@mikelynn8977]

What do you mean you are an outsider? The entire scriptures advocate for a free market economy. Private ownership of property with willing buyers and sellers. Charity and helping the poor is the responsibility of the individual not the role of government. Socialism, communism, fascism and all other ism's advocates using force to help the poor. If you have a better system please share it because the ones mentioned above as alternatives to a free market are complete failures. Don't be fooled into thinking America has a free market economy, it doesn't.

[@aosidh]

@@mikelynn8977 Thanks for the response! I'm not a christian, but someone who is nonetheless concerned for the "least of these" above all else. I see where you are coming from, even though I'm not sure the case for a libertarian bible is quite that strong. I see a common misconception, and I'm here to share the good news: socialism does not require some sort of an oppressive atheist police state! That's leftover propaganda from the cold war. Heck, in a christian socialist country, the most efficient way to support the needy would still be to happily "render unto caesar" the necessary taxes.

[@kimemia_maina]

You can get sugar from sugar beets. I imagine there is lots of sugar beet in Poland

[@maryburke9851]

Sugar beets also make sugar besides sugar cane. It's a crop that goes very well in Europe

[@SandySalmansohn]

I was thinking that too.

[@kevinwillems8720]

Also guys will literally create a sexy robot ceo before letting their companies be owned by the workers lol

[@enigma1865]

Over 60 and still need guidance!!

[@curtismartin2866]

How did i not know about the Disruptors? I'm still not comfortable with the Christian situation. I may just need to switch.

[@kamalastromwall9275]

When Rev.Rafael Warnock ran for office my Pastor made a statement on FB that Georgia should 'vote for family values.' I thought, 'You mean vote against the anti-family values Senior Pastor of MLK's former church'. 🤔 Yeah, that makes sense.

[@enigma1865]

Yep, it is Wednesday when I am listening

[@bethprather9241]

Move on with the Rum because I need a drink of wine now . Lol

[@SandySalmansohn]

We still say “landlords” and “landladies.”

[@lisacawyer6896]

How much is the robot CEO paid, and who actually gets the money?

[@Anabee3]

1:09:10> SKYE & WIFE: ENJOY your empty nest. The grands will come soon enough 😊. (And yes, it's even better than all the wonderfulness the T-shirts & bumper stickers convey).

[@bethprather9241]

Wow Scott at 1:12 I was already thinking that Moses isnt a great example if we are telling people how God may not use you as this HUGE. Influence since Moses is a HUge called person from God. LOL Then when you state about we love in America in freedom. In wealth we dont have a clue, so blessed yes and I do believe that One Nation Under God is a blessing that doesn't mean what I have read as Christian Nationalism..

[@thetruest7497]

I think we see people from DuPage moving out further while people from Cook and Will county moving into DuPage. And not rural Will, urban and suburban... Joliet & Bolingbrook.

[@bethprather9241]

Your first statement about the left or social people knowing Jesus or the true God... Well... I did see this in the entire Trump and FOx time when I watched the others... I mean the Today show, Jimmy Fallen, and Stephen Colbert whose truth of knowing the true God,blasted thru loud and clear

[@mikelynn8977]

I'm confused by what you are saying. Are you saying Kimmel and Colbert are believers?

[@bixles]

​@@mikelynn8977I don't know about Fallon, but Colbert is a Catholic and has spoken openly about his faith.

[@kevinwillems8720]

Also, most people call Christian Nationalism Christian Fascism, and it's not at all new.

[@eviewesner6231]

@HolyPost will Drew Dyck's book be on audible soon?

[@anthonybeers]

if more people seek God to guide their political work I hope they would be convicted to love their enemies and pray for those who persecute them which is what is missing in our churches for some reason. (I really hope it is not really missing but it feels like it.)

[@2serve4Christ]

The latest #death toll stands at 11,423 #Palestinians and at least 1,200 people killed in #Israel since October 7. (2023.11.15) 🛐4✝

[@2serve4Christ]

38:45 "They are mistaken who think the Kingdom of God means #heaven. It is rather the #spiritual life, which is begun by #faith in this #world and daily increases according to the continual progress of #faith." (in reference to John 3: 3, 5) The Gospel According to St. John by John Calvin

[@luisbartolomey3988]

Lol can we say Terminator!!!

[@bethprather9241]

At 56 I remember the purity claim..tpo late for me but still knew that was a stra ge movement ..IDK? But I would say as a young girl in S Baptist 70's sex and drinking was the worse and saved by grace and always if real... Yes I knew but thinking how it wasnt about a calling to me, a virgjn for marriage and bibical yes, but more if you mess up you will be disciplined severly.. Bad things will happem if u chose this.. true except using God as a gentle discipline vs knock u down and everything will be bad.. Plus I learned later that the 10 commandments were written because He lovea us .. Not a callong thing. I have noticed those that brag outloud about their virgininty. I knew that was not a good thing either.

[@simonspeechley2859]

Don't worry Skye - you'll still get plenty of opportunities to be called upon to bail out your children, both emotionally and in other ways.

[@ZipplyZane]

I disagree a bit with the part at the end of the regular podcast (with the three of you). Yes, it's important for me as a Christian to make sure that my political motivation comes from my following Christ. But I'm not so sure it's absolutely necessary for me to ascertain that in others. If what they say doesn't actually align with Scripture, then I need to oppose it even if they think they were following Christ. And if what they say does align with Scripture, then that's what I need to do, regardless of their motivation. I would only have to worry about their motivation if I were going to follow them. But, this situation is about following God, not following Man. If someone supports helping the poor for secular reasons, should I not vote for them because I support it for Christian reasons? If they happen to then quote Scripture as proof that Jesus also supported the poor, should that mean I shouldn't vote for them?

[@maryhamric]

So MLK Jr. shouldn't have asked God to help him in his political work? Should the abolitionists of the 19th century not asked God to help them in their political endeavors? Is that what you are saying Skye? Just because this can be abused, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Means to an end is something different. Asking God to help you is a pretty fundamental thing. God knows which prayers to answer in the affirmative.

[@DK-tk1nu]

Everything in the life of Jesus points to his concern for the poor and the marginalised. You cannot be for Christ but indifferent to the poor and marginalised. Your political views have to prioritise their interests over those of yourself. Your wish to lower taxes has to be motivated by a desire to ensure more and better jobs for the poor, not to have more to put in your pocket for your middle-class comfortable life. If you wish to raise taxes, it has to be motivated by a desire to help really poor people, not merely to get at the super-rich so that your personal drug-costs come down.

[@VJacquette]

If you're following God, you're going to do good towards others. There's no right or left, politics vs religion, etc. This is a ridiculous debate! See, for example, Mark 9:38-41 and all of James 2.

[@laurelhicks5889]

Does she play chess?