Why Are Tiles Popping Up on this HYDRO BAN Shower Pan???

[@deeeeeeps]

As a contractor I stopped offering work I couldn't guarantee. I'd tell customers I couldn't guarantee it would work but if you want to try to save cost I can attempt it, but then if it failed they would hire someone else to do it right like how it should have been done and they would look at me like a hack/bad guy. Now I tell them I only do things correctly and if you want to jerry rigg it call someone else.

[@begalbrew5572]

This exactly, just turn those deals down, will always result in something bad. I would never set over someone else's "prep" that's for sure lol

[@natashabass215]

Everything needs to come out is always a contractor’s answer 😂😂

[@honestlyforreal6304]

I've had this conversation many times in 30 yrs. It can be difficult giving customers this news. We must ne VERY careful and not give hope for a simple repair. The surprise of a lower bill is much better than the surprise of un expected costs!

[@als1023]

Excellent comment, thanks for posting !

[@brandonmaugeri7828]

great demeanor coach. well spoken. calming influence

[@worshipwarrior12]

That's a random one lol. If there is one place where a contractor better get the prep done right...its the shower base. Man that's a sad case. The vertical staggerjust pooched it... Feeling sorry for Chris. He could cut a line at the height of the bench and put in a fancy listtello or some kind of horizontal boarder tile but attempting to keep everything waterproofed looks pretty difficult without a full ripout... Good luck guys!

[@matthewsaltzman5573]

I'd love to see full tear out to know if water was getting in edges and corners of bench, and creeping under layers.

[@TheVijimz]

Saludos ! Gracias por compartir tanta información, cuando empecé a mi carrera de remodelación tus videos definitivamente fueron cruciales en mi aprendizaje, en todos estos años use varios sistemas que conocí en tu canal de cómo hacer waterproof un shower y no cabe duda que la clave está en conocer los materiales y también como se deben usar. Sigue adelante amigo

[@simonproatl]

When the shower leaks usually it's a very small mistake or complete disaster. Most of the time water leaks around the curb, seat or drain. When water reaches plywood it start to expand and lifts that pan. That's why pan has cracked and is hollow when you tap it. Usually it's a very small leak that continues for many years. I replaced showers that had cracked shower pan and plywood was so severely damaged that liner and thick pan was holding everything together otherwise people would fall thru the ceiling. If you have few people involved in building shower that is always a problem. Thanks for sharing

[@als1023]

Another great lesson from the Tile Coach,, thanks for posting ! Would love to see the repair solution.

[@mikerudd4943]

The only way to make it look right and last is to tear it all out for the reasons he mentioned

[@Erenovates]

Tile coach is the best love your videos man thanks for sharing

[@chadharrigan68]

Love the buckhorn chisels! Every experienced/ licensed tile contractor has a couple sets in their repertoire of tools.

[@bretburt7317]

After watching your (awesome) glass box testing - I do dry pack, sheet membrane and Hydroban over all the lap joints.

[@elainerussell924]

Ok we get it !! Tenting ! Chris what he is saying get your check book out and put a lot of zeros on it !!!!! Better yet take out a 2nd mortgage!!!!

[@denismar1506]

Another option could be to make a cut line right at the lower wall tile joint and bring a floor tile up the wall, make a base all round from the floor tile. Esthetically that would look decent I think.

[@mikerudd4943]

The staggered joints would look off then I think and...if it's rock under, hard to take it out without replacing...soooo then you have to take the duro out and put in new studs..still a lot of work and the end effect will scream of a repair to a home inspection upon sale

[@Chris11249]

I think it would work, but look rough indeed. That staggered pattern and the pattern on the bench and niche also is "interesting" already to say the least. No wonder Isaac wanted to rip it out, he'd do a much nicer job

[@viperfanatic13]

Hey man, let me know if you need any materials. We can definitely help out and send a gallon of hydroban and some trilite or 254 to help the homeowner out with some repair costs.

[@PoisonJarl71501]

What a guy ❤😊

[@brennenbartlettphotography1576]

Are you a laticrete rep? I’m just about to install a hydroban shower so when this came up on my feed I immediately had to watch. If you’re a rep that’s some great customer service.

[@viperfanatic13]

@brennenbartlettphotography1576 yes. For NorCal

[@brennenbartlettphotography1576]

@ gotta say, the fact that you guys are watching these kinds of videos and interacting with the community in this way shows you believe in your product and are a responsive company. Locked me in as a customer.

[@PatRyan-c7z]

That's a good guy right there.

[@johnknightiii1351]

Concrete bonding adhesive would have made those two layers stick together.

[@lindamoser2532]

Just a guess. Maybe the first float didn't have enough slope, so second layer was added. If that was done wrong, then probably other stuff was done wrong. Unfortunately, looks like a gut to me. Now days, if I don't prep it, I don't tile it. Thanks for the video

[@tedspens]

One option might be to make a straight cut all the way around at the bottom of the full tiles. It would break the continuous waterproofing seal (assuming there is one) but I think mashing the new backer into a thick bead of sealant would fix that. Then do something creative with the new tile to look like it was always meant to be that way. Or just gut the whole shower. That would be fun too. 😁😁

[@mattdillon2331]

That's actually a decent idea, call it base. But I would leave 1-2" of the existing backer below the tile cut. Now you can flash that joint also.

[@tedspens]

@@mattdillon2331 I did this once but it was already cut out when I got there. The previous repair guy did the demolition then disappeared. Absolutely leave some backer exposed if possible.

[@georgebush6002]

Would the new and old tiles require flexible sealant joint instead of grout since the backerboards are not bonded with mesh tape and thinset like normal?

[@tedspens]

@@georgebush6002 I wouldn't use flexible sealant as grout but I would reinforce the joint between old and new backer, probably by gluing scrap pieces behind. To do that I would first glue strips behind the old backer, hanging down a couple of inches, and let it fully dry. Then glue the new backer to the splice piece so they are as one, and I would seal the joint with something like Hydro Ban sealant. I would not use HB sealant for the glue, however, because it's too flexible. For the glue I'd use construction adhesive, probably Loctite PL I usually have it on hand.

[@georgebush6002]

@@tedspens Sound like a good substitute for the normal mesh tape and thinset I was worried about not being able to install across the joint.

[@willinthearea6318]

I don’t think it would’ve leaked with a sheet membrane even with that loose mud. Sheet membrane is thick and won’t crack easily. If you do use liquid membrane in a shower pan, a fabric is a must! 2 part system, the liquid and the fabric installed together. Just liquid membrane won’t cut it.

[@eduardocampos2382]

What about cutting with an angle grinder a straight line into the wall tiles if they can’t find matching tile? It’s dusty but there’s good dust management systems. That way you can fully waterproof 8-12 inches up the wall and the new pan

[@Mentalidadalpha87]

I do old school the shower pan with sand mix water proof liner then the thinset to tile.

[@MoneyManHolmes]

I think water was getting under the Hydroban, probably around the perimeter joint, and caused swelling. Sure the 2 layers look hackish, but they were solid.

[@georgebush6002]

What exactly do you think has swelled? From what I understand most of the materials mentioned tile, thinset, drypack, concrete slab and cement board do not swell when wet.

[@MoneyManHolmes]

Maybe the strange patching compound that was used to fine tune the slope. That could be anything.

[@georgebush6002]

@@MoneyManHolmes Seems plausible although I wouldn't rule out the mystery substance thermal expansion/contraction differences causing uneven stress or it compressing under weight. I am definitely curious what the substance is and where else it was used.

[@Real_PK]

Looks like a full tear out is the way to go. That large tile at a 50/50 stagger just doesn't look good. I wonder how much lipage there is.

[@davidribeca1745]

If the guy can live with a pattern change if you can find the matching tile just saw cut the walls at the seat height to avoid the backer board damage from the staggered joints! May not be the best look but give it 1 month and no one will care about the repair as long as it's done to the best of your ability. Cut the bottom tiles into 12x12 squares and make a pattern

[@jeffreymiller6250]

Happy New Year- love your videos. There are a lot of new waterproofing products. My shower is thirty years old with no problems. Tile over mortar Cement and wall tile over 1/2 inch green Sheetrock about 3/8in. Off the cement and the wall tile to the finish floor tile and all tiled with thinset and grouted. Still I have no issues but time to remodel for new look. Can I or should I do it the same way.?? (Old way)??

[@bradluth7847]

I wonder if there was a bit of a leak in a corner somewhere and water was getting between that cold joint helping to separate those layers

[@1dariansdad]

Excellent forensic work. It looks to me as if the contractor put concrete bonder down on the original drypack and it never incorporated. Bonder is not an adhesive per se but rather an adhesion promoter that needs to be blended with one of the substrates.

[@dnicolae]

Was hoping to see if it was a two piece drain or a bonded drain with the hydroban where water wouldn't have anywhere to weep/drain if it made it through the thin hydroban membrane. Seems like it could be a failure of combining two systems.

[@realdan1]

Genuine question, in what circumstances could a shower pan be "repaired"? it sounds like to me the moment you pop of a tile it's getting redone.

[@davel8218]

So what’s the problem with hydroban? Why wasn’t it waterproofed with a membrane like Kerdi or others?

[@PatRyan-c7z]

My guess is whatever they used in the 2nd layer wasn't mixed correctly. Maybe not enough water and it started sucking up moisture leading to the tenting. That's a full tear down so you can fix the issue at the literal base. Also doesn't help if you have no adhesion between layers.

[@trooperfitclub]

I wonder if water is running behind the bench and getting trapped between the 2 layers. Seems like it started in that corner.

[@williamdewey9568]

I've used paragon deck mud and it's got a weird almost "sticky" feel when floating but it dries really hard.

[@Apexjasonmorganllc]

Great video!

[@Astros-dz4bx]

I have a question. Let's say it is a manufacturer defect. What would the reimbursement cost be? The cost of just the hydroban or would they offer a replacement cost to repair the damaged area?

[@cyclopsvision6370]

Here's a little secret that no manufacturer will tell you..... It's always an installer error, so you will never get from the manufacturer.

[@MSeroga]

That's why tiled shower pans are a scam... for the homeowner. It's pure job security, they install it knowing it will not last and then come back in a few years and say, well you need a new one.

[@PoisonJarl71501]

Assuming you’re going to pack another pan with a sheet membrane on top? I put waterproofing too for overkill

[@dantemariscal8679]

No such thing as overkill when it comes to water proofing. Personally I get an entire bag of ardex 8+9 only for the shower pan and first 8 inches of the bottom corners. Super solid

[@PoisonJarl71501]

@ I’ve never tried it. Is that something you prefer to a few coats of hydroban with fibermesh tape? Always looking to improve when I do bathrooms

[@dantemariscal8679]

@@PoisonJarl71501 I personally do prefer it because it is a cementious waterproofing meaning it’s rock solid when its working time is up. And like I’m saying once youre done putting the 8+9 it’s thicker than 40 mills. I still put 2 coats of redgard over the ardex as a vapor barrier. Try it and see how you like it. The only thing is the ardex 8+9 is $100 per pack if you’re ok with that

[@AlanMcCarthyguitar]

Was the original contractor contacted ??

[@honestlyforreal6304]

I wouldn't be surprised to see leaking at the bench.

[@alexk1947]

That's why it's best to install a fiberglass shower pan and install tile on walls.. and your good for life.

[@youtuberiches8670]

Agreed.

[@willinthearea6318]

Those fail all the time. It cracks and leaks. If things aren’t done right, it just won’t last.

[@alexk1947]

@willinthearea6318 as long as you don't by the cheap thin stuff it will last for a long time. .

[@JesusSanchez-xu2is]

I had two and both failed over years of course. I ordered a marble base that is thick and know will never fail.

[@MilesofTilebiz]

Tile Redi at least, actually considered an appliance

[@2Big2Fail2Day]

As a homeowner, that's why I do everything myself

[@Rocco101]

Great video bud

[@brewted]

Instead of #of coats you should go by product(wt.or vol)/ft2. AND accuratly measure! that way if you do thin coats you keep putting it on till you use all the required product, Personally id use a pre-formed foam base w/ waterproof by the factory- a bit more $$ but a no-brainer.

[@blipblop92]

Tile gives me nightmares about callbacks thats why we exclusively do prefab pans now

[@dcntralizedmind2754]

You could probably tear out up to the bench height in a straight line and keep the pattern above, being that you’re probably not gonna find that tile

[@tworiverspark]

Is the hydroban membrane a liquid membrane or a sheet membrane? Is that fiber reinforcing that I'm seeing part of the hydro ban or something else?

[@tedspens]

That's the liquid applied and too thin, but neither liquid or sheet would have prevented that failure.

[@cyclopsvision6370]

It's a thick liquid that you apply with a roller. If you know what Redgard is, it's the same thing, just from a different competitor.

[@D.A.1karp]

I gave up doing these bandaid repairs of 12" up and new pan. Although it 'works', there is so much time involved and expense just to finish with a repaired looking shower. That is not how i want my business card to look like.

[@alexmanns9658]

It looks like the two separated… Lack of a bonding agent. Also, the fiberglass fabric was not used, most people don’t know it’s necessary to embed into the liquid membrane. That’s what will give you the proper thickness, and I when going over a mortar bed, another method is to take 90% of the liquid apply and dilute with 10% water using it as a prime coat. This will help the Hydro ban penetrate deep into the surface of the mud bed. Thanks for sharing Isaac!

[@hamletshome220]

This is why a mortar pan is the only way to go it never fails if done right.

[@hamletshome220]

@@justinofboulder Never used logic in 30 years installing shower pans just used common sense and sticking to a plan that is done right.....

[@Itsgonnabeok312]

Where can I learn to make a mortar pan. Im about to put down a kerdi this weekend but going to return it.

[@shaunebatye6013]

What I'm seeing is vinegar damaged grout. The vinegar will eat the lime out of any cement product.

[@wainepate7191]

Greetings from the 406 state

[@tedspens]

Greetings Austalifornia, from the umteenth other state, Chinorado. 🏁

[@riccochet704]

Man that sucks for the guy.

[@nylonstringninja]

With a bench and a curb and niches, why take a chance whoever built this thing didn't screw up something else. Just start over and rebuild it right.

[@VZap-zt3cm]

That's a mess. Needs a complete re-do.

[@JoseyWilds]

Whoever installed it installed it wrong! The whole floor is floating, I can hear it! Tear it all out, and redo it!

[@rickdixontn]

I think TileCoach is great and I enjoy his videos, but every time I watch one it makes me worry about my install that I did over a year ago. No problems so far, but he gives me new scenarios of potential failure.

[@chadharrigan68]

That would be a ¹/32". Definitely do not use an elastomeric WP over the entire surface of the top layer of the traditional 3pc pan install. That will negate the reason for pouring the pre-pitch/slope. 1/32" is also the tolerance for lippage. KOKO!

[@Stevesbe]

Roll on waterproofing that cleans up with water makes no sense

[@PatrickS-m5l]

Kool sw airlines credit card..travel miles rule!

[@goran.radulovic]

Dude, never show your credit card on camera :)

[@palmerstile9379]

God that sucks.. wish people would learn how to do pans properly

[@MSeroga]

Every time I see this videos I am more and more convinced that a tiled pan is NOT worth it. Way too many variables and way too many ways it can fail. Sacrifice a little bit of the looks by getting some sort of one piece shower pan and not worry about the 1000 ways a tiled shower pan could potentially fail.

[@chadharrigan68]

6+ years, even from AZ TILE, is not going to happen!

[@JeremeyHowlett]

Liquid waterproofing products shouldn’t be allowed for use in shower pans.

[@MoneyManHolmes]

My upstairs shower floor is Hydroban only and I don’t lose any sleep over it. Of course I did it, so I know it was done right. Sheet membrane is probably safer, but there are plenty of ways for installers to botch those too.

[@hemidesign]

100% agreed

[@chadharrigan68]

There are too many niches. Not even on layout!

[@juliomartinez9315]

Come on just fix the thing. Instead all this political rhetoric

[@marioarenas4799]

I SAW ONE OF HIS VIDEOS AND HE SAID THAT HYDRO BAN IS THE BEST.

[@kevinbrasington1571]

To many chiefs on this camp fire for me, one person build start to finish

[@marioarenas4799]

VINYL LINER NEVER FAILS.

[@marioarenas4799]

I WOULD NEVER MAKE A SHOWER FLOOR, WITH THOSE NEW PRODUCTS, HYDRO BAN, RED GUARD, DITRA, USE THE ALL SYSTEM, PAN LINER IS THE BEST.

[@bryanbenson6551]

Thats why you don't use paint on waterproofing ALONE for shower pan! WAY too risky when other methods seem to be easier.

[@brennenbartlettphotography1576]

Doesn’t seem like it was the fault of the hydroban though.

[@MoneyManHolmes]

I don’t think it was the Hydroban’s fault. I think water was getting under it, though.

[@wasntme3651]

There’s no easier method than what was done to waterproof this shower. It’s the easiest and least labor intensive.

[@LinetteBecca]

Thanks for the analysis! Could you help me with something unrelated: I have a SafePal wallet with USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How should I go about transferring them to Binance?

[@Stucatz911]

This could have been an EASY REPAIR until the TILE COACH PUT HIS HANDS ON IT