A 9x19 new barrel for the M1912 Steyr Hahn?

[@StarWarsSurvivalist]

I like the idea that the folks at the Fiocchi factory are sitting down at the lunch table, probably smoking a cigarette with a glass of wine, when one of the ponders "Well, it's Friday afternoon...when is the last time we made some 9mm Steyr ammo?" And the others just look at him before taking one final drag of their smokes before they begin to load up the tooling.

[@blackpowderburner7296]

And they only load .450 boxer for 19 minutes on the anniversary of the founder’s favourite pidgeon’s birthday and only if it’s during a leap year.

[@alan-sk7ky]

Ah Speckled Jim's birthday...​@@blackpowderburner7296

[@herrcobblermachen]

@@blackpowderburner7296 AFTER they produce the biannual quota of 20 boxes of 455 webley.

[@npconman]

Hi, I purchased one of these IGB 9x19mm Steyr 1912 barrels back in 2016 and had the exact same issue where the barrel lugs became deformed after only ~100 rounds of factory ammo. IGB was responsive and offered me a new barrel which I received about a month later. The new barrel has been excellent in the last ~9 years with no noticeable deformation or damage. You can find a fairly recent video of my 1912 in 9x19 on my channel. The handgun has been reliable and a joy to shoot in that time. I hope IGB continues to offer these barrel in 9x19 so others can enjoy the Model 1912 with easy to find ammo.

[@pmgn8444]

Interesting as always Le Chap! Kinda fascinating how 9x19 became the 'standard' of the various different early 9mm cartridges.

[@DebatingWombat]

I think there was probably three main reasons why the 9x19 became the de facto world standard 9 mm: 1) The 9x19 (AFAIK) was one of the more powerful early 9 mm with its competitors often being noted as being more towards the “could be fielded in simple blowback pistols” - even if they were designed for much stronger actions (Austria-Hungary being a clear example with both the M1912/Steyr Hahn and the M1907/Roth-Steyr/Roth-Krnka, though the latter was an 8 mm design). 2) The 9x19 was fielded in a reliable and accurate pistol (the Luger) and at the end of a long and systematic development and testing process that had actually started with a different cartridge (the 7.65x21 mm) and thus ensured that the cartridge was fired from a platform that could use its potential. 3) Scale. The Imperial German Army standardised on the 9x19 mm and ensured it would be available in both quality and vast quantities along with the pistols to shoot it. It also helped that German small arms production weathered the aftermath of WWI better than many of its competitors, especially among the “loser states”. While there were some other calibres and options (mainly the frankly ancient M1879 Reichsrevolvers that hadn’t yet been phased out entirely, the Mauser C96 and various .32 pistols as accepted standard/private purchase), the Imperial German Army basically went all in on 9x19 mm before WWI and only remnants and the need for far more pistols during WWI made some accommodation necessary. Again, Austria Hungary is a good counter example as it fielded a bewildering amount of cartridges along with its large selection of handguns in WWI: - Where Germany had one “legacy revolver”, Austria-Hungary had two (Gasser M1870 and Gasser-Kropatchek M1876); each in a different calibre. - Austria-Hungary also had a “modern” revolver (the Rast & Gasser M1891) which was again in a different calibre from the two “legacy revolvers”. - Austria-Hungary’s two official, main service pistols (the M1907 and M1912) were each in a different calibre. - Austria-Hungary also fielded several .32 pistol designs. - The Dual Monarchy also ended up buying C96s from Germany during WWI in their original 7.63x25 mm configuration (yet another calibre that wasn’t shared with any of its existing handguns). - And you could even risk having some officers using privately purchased Mannlicher M1901/1905 which also had a proprietary cartridge, not used by any of the other handguns or the Dual Monarchy. - By my count that amounts to a total of six different “official” calibre plus another two as either wartime or private purchase.

[@Shellshock1918]

It’s because Germany invaded most of Europe in World War 2 and their pistols ended up everywhere, plus the ballistics are actually pretty good.

[@Mildcat743]

That 6 inch option is giving me some evil threading related ideas.

[@worldtraveler930]

You and me both!!! 🤠👍

[@Georgewilliamherbert]

Have to worry about the rotational moment of inertia of the barrel plus suppressor system. Similar to most pistols and recoilling mass. But I have no idea how sensitive the gun actually is to that.

[@argonzificationd.1531]

I'd be wary, especially since those lugs on the barrel are known to have hardness issues. Anything threaded on will only increase the slide recoil force. But I really want to see what would happen, so don't let that stop you. May God (or possibly Satan) bless your project.

[@TrainmanDan]

These guns were a lot of fun. There was a lot of ammo available but if I remember correctly it was Berdan primed. Some guys turned down the rims of .38 ACP cases for reloading and some guys did some mods to the extractor and bridge to enable using .38ACP. They had an annoying habit of dumping ejected cases down the back of your neck!

[@DirtyDiksgunoroma]

I know 38 super comp donor cases don't work.

[@Xerxes1688]

I read that you can also make 9mm Steyr cases from .223 Remington or 5.56 NATO brass but's kinda of a pain as you not only have to cut the case, you'll also have to ream the inner walls so the 9mm bullets could fit properly, and also so you avoid pressure spikes that could destroy your gun.

[@herrcobblermachen]

@@DirtyDiksgunoroma damn, raining on my parade u___u have a coffee can of it. Back to the drawing board, Pinky. Starline 9mm brass maybe

[@AndreasMarx]

I remember when IGB first started offering these barrels, they talked at some lenght about how difficult it had been to get the hardening right. Disappointing to see that the problem crept back in.

[@oblivionshadow9453]

This is my experience with IGB Austria's Steyr Hahn 9x19 barrel. My initial barrel had some issues with trigger reset where the trigger would not reset reliably after each shot. After about 100 rounds, this issue went away on its own, however after about 500 rounds, the camming surfaces on the locking lugs started to chip. Warranty replacement of the barrel was very easy although, at the time, IGB Austria only shipped barrels out of Austria once a month so it took about a month and a half to receive my replacement. The second barrel I received had a different finish on the barrel and the locking lugs and camming surface edges were not rounded off as was done on the original barrel (1st barrel was a shiny light gray finish vs matte dark gray finish on 2nd). I have about 500 rounds through the second barrel and have not yet encountered any problems with trigger reset or cracking that occured with the original barrel.

[@thebotrchap]

Glad to hear it! Did you change recoil spring for 9x19? I don’t see the need currently but it doesn’t mean I shouldn’t.

[@oblivionshadow9453]

@@thebotrchap I'm still using the original springs in mine, but I'm planning to test out replacement recoil springs if I'm able to find any in good condition.

[@thebotrchap]

@ I saw somewhere online that certain Glock springs are suitable replacements.

[@smitthone]

In italy we got a lot of these Steyrs (WWI war reparations & booty from Austria). Some have been converted to 7.65 parabellum (.30 luger) in the '70.

[@acheeseburger7367]

While researching getting a Steyr I saw these barrels. Many people mentioned a very long wait time and many reported quite sloppy machining, at least one post hinted at a possible catastrophic failure caused by one of them… So I just saved up a bit more and bought an 08 model. Personally I would just avoid the IGB barrels

[@davejackson2190]

I brought mine from Fultons while at Bisley one weekend during a service pistol competition in the 80's. My example had Chileian crest on the slide, dated 1911. I brought 100 rounds at the same time for the brass. Quickly got a dye set from RCBS. Enjoyed using it generally as well as competing in classic service pistol comps.

[@corditesniffer8020]

Cool beans Those Chilean Styer Hahns are actually quite rare and a good find if you still have it 5000 in total made of my memory serves

[@lelonbond6682]

i made cases for my styer out of 38 special brass.i cut the cases to length cot offthe rim and cut a extractor grove.reloaded with 9mm cast bullets.wored fine.

[@VS-ff4ez]

I have always wanted to get a Steyr Hahn, but didn't due to ammunition cost and scarcity. This could be the answer to my problems. Thank you for your videos and for this information.

[@simonjones6128]

Great Post Le Chappie Ian did an in depth study of this fascinating pistol.

[@thebotrchap]

Hence why I didn’t 😜 C&Rsenal also have a very good historical deep dive

[@eisenkrieg553]

I thank you for this video. I've been considering buying one of these guns with the intent of getting an IGB barrel. In California, acquiring ammo is made even more challenging, so sourcing 9x23 Steyr would cost me dearly. Knowing there are some serious QC issues has saved me a lot of money.

[@ExF1Guy]

Why not just reload 9x23 Steyr? Starline has brass available and dies are available from CH4D. That said, I would probably first try using a 5.56 / .223 FL sizer die and then do everything else with 9x19 dies. Based on what I'm seeing for 9x23 Steyr dimensions it should work (obviously test and verify yourself, I don't own, nor have I ever shot 9x23 Steyr). You may have to polish the .223 FL die slightly as the base diameter of the .223 rem case is .1mm (.004") smaller than that of the Steyr, not sure. Cost to reload should be only slightly more than reloading 9x19, due to the more expensive brass. Lay a tarp down when shooting and you should get the majority of your brass back.

[@robertl6196]

Nice! Every once and a while my gunshop sees one of these come through. Might have to pick one up.

[@mannywilliams6409]

Passed on one of these some years ago not because of ammo, I own an Astra but because the stripper clips are hard to find on this side of the pond.

[@Gabby6060842]

Sarco has/had them. a dozen for 10 bux. I bought some a couple years ago.

[@AbananaPEEl]

Yeah I had no trouble getting a pack of 10 clips for quite cheap after getting one here in the US. And they work great too. Was probably 2-3 years ago now. I think it was just on gunbroker.

[@peternicol3439]

It's a Patented Brass Pokey Thing!

[@wubaru]

I actually already have a 9x19 barrel. It has a weird chicken/eagle stamp on it along with the pistol.

[@lawrencemartin1113]

Fascinating. I have not seen one of these pistols in detail before let alone firing, so this was a really interesting video. Thank you. I do hope the barrel issue gets resolved satisfactorily. I guess, on the positive side, the barrel does not seem to have inflicted damage to your lovely pistol, but at least was the sacrificial component. 😊

[@cheesenoodles8316]

Very cool pistol, good piece of history.

[@Ashcrash82]

I also have an interest in these pistols. Although it doesn't really fit anywhere in my collection, I may have to just call an audible some time and get one if I can. Now that I think about it, I do have a Husky m/07 in 9mm Long, I guess they could be mates after all (got it early on when I really didn't know what it was, just that it looked like a bigger version of my 1903 Colt pocket hammerless, ha).

[@nothim7321]

The recoil and muzzleflash of that first shot... A bit more than I expected...

[@miketranfaglia3986]

Very cool old gun---nearly bought one of these, but the price in the store seemed excessive; it's good to hear that someone thought to make a barrel conversion to keep the old warhorse going

[@jamesbromstead4949]

Does this mean that "They just don't make them like they use to?"

[@Henchcorp]

Those shooting glasses tho, wew lad

[@mkruk2]

I ordered one of these from IGB for mine. The one they sent did not fit (the slide was not able to be installed). They sent another, still didn’t fit. So I had to send them back for a refund. EDIT: I did reach out to several gunsmiths about reshaping it (lapping the lugs), but they warned me that it would be a bit of a science project and the cost of the work would be excessive.

[@fraserconnell21]

Heyup chap 💥 That's a lovely looking pistol ! Pretty unique, too. One does admire the countries that still allow a wide spectrum of firearms available to own under license, ie England 0 Switzerland 5 ft score. 🤲🇬🇧👋

[@truckerallikatuk]

Got to love PR folks trying to make their own job harder when the customer service had already solved the issue.

[@minkinomics3002]

Be honest, did you consider getting the 6 inch barrel and threading a suppressor? I'm pleased to see that stripper clips stay functional with both barrels!

[@thebotrchap]

Czech vz 24 7.62 Tok stripper clips

[@stanislavczebinski994]

"Friday in the hardening shop" - my money is on monday....

[@keithplymale2374]

Always thought highly of the Steyr Hahn and wanted one but never seen on at a price point I can afford.

[@tigidoug]

If the rifling are still in good shape just see an armorer to rechamber to 38 Supercomp caliber and use 38 super loads ( not IPSC loads) Thats what I’ve done. 38 Supercomp have the same rim that the original 9 mm Steyr rounds. Works perfectly.

[@blackpowderburner7296]

Bubba noooooo. Dies and brass are available. Put the reamer down!

[@thebotrchap]

I would never rechamber a gun in good original condition for the sake of convenience 😦

[@thecommissaruk]

What appears to be the world's finest recoil control at 6:28 !

[@julianviso6701]

l love those old "workhorse" working againg.

[@AbananaPEEl]

Thanks for this video! I had been looking at these for a while, but was never too sure how US import laws would handle a gun barrel, so never ordered. While anecdotally, it sounds like it could be worth it in the end, after getting one, then getting the better replacement, lol, ill probably just stick to reloading the brass of the 3 boxes of Fiocci i was somehow able to grab for pretty cheap on gunbroker. Though thats been its own issue, where i buckle like every 15th case when bullet seating. Anywho, an informative video!

[@randompanda876]

Gun barrel? No no. I ordered a paper weight, officer

[@happyhaunter_5546]

Interesting! Have a great and safe new year from America Bloke

[@philliplopez8745]

Interesting to see if that rotating barrel lockup provides accuracy.

[@Willindor]

Good to see you again Chap, I was worried that you were buried underneath a cheese avalanche without any appropriate wine with you

[@screwyu1329]

You might find your groups will tighten up a tad if you put the thumb on the off hand in a different place. Putting it on the front of the trigger guard causes all sorts of problems with grip consistency.

[@thebotrchap]

I see what you mean but there isn’t really anywhere else to put it. The slide covers the frame obole the trigger so the only other choice would be holding it off completely. It wasn’t conceived to be shot two handed.

[@screwyu1329]

@@thebotrchap Neither was the P-08 or the 1911, however we manage it. A grip where the off thumb rests gently along the strong hand thumb seems to work. No pressure from the thumb to effect the grip consistency.

[@thebotrchap]

@ The 1911 has a good bit of frame above the trigger guard to rest your thumb(s) without risking contact with the reciprocating slide. Likewise for the barrel frame on the P08, there is plenty of space for thumbs above the trigger. Not so on the Steyr. As I said, I don’t disagree with you on the influence of thumb pressure, just that this pistol offers no safe place to rest the off thumb aside from where I put it.

[@HomesteadDork]

When are we going to get a video on that Lucius no.98 Pattern I see up on the shelf?

[@-Ironers-]

Yes, and some shovel action as well.

[@thebotrchap]

@@HomesteadDork Well spotted 😶

[@batwing-plays]

The most beautiful handgun in my opinion.

[@Joakim-j7h]

I think this is a great idea! :D I would like one with a treaded barrel. :P

[@EXO9X8]

Is this still covered by the Steyr warranty?

[@worldtraveler930]

Yep'ers this is one of the Cool guns that I have always wanted to Own!!! 🤠👍

[@Revener666]

So about that lasgun in the background? :)

[@thebotrchap]

My my what sharp eyes you have 😮

[@GlockamoleG17]

That nasty guy from ww2 with a funny mustache had them converted to 9mm Luger for police. Here in the states, the are fairly rare and extremely expensive… Cheers!

[@Madmatt252525]

Perfect timing as I just acquired a 1914 dated Steyr M1912 myself yesterday. Unfortunately, mine ended up missing both the recoil spring retainer and one of the two recoil spring end caps. I've searched all over but these seem extremely hard parts to find. Curious if anyone may know of a source for them? PM me if so. I've been told that you can fire the pistol without these parts (as the disassembly wedge will retain the recoil spring), but I don't like the idea of doing that. Thanks!

[@Pigness7]

I wonder how this would perform suppressed

[@hendriktonisson2915]

Interesting stuff. Would also like to see a video of M27 Lebel or M34 Berthier in action.

[@thebotrchap]

M27 is one I don’t (yet) have 😢

[@hendriktonisson2915]

@@thebotrchap M36 would also be interesting to see.

[@peterconnan5631]

Bugger. Hope the next one is correctly made!

[@LN997-i8x]

I've always loved these, easily my favourite handgun. Made better by the fact you can use VZ-24 stripper clips in them, which are plentiful and useless to most people. Also, relying on the clip to keep the slide open and your thumb intact is rather brave of you!

[@nirfz]

Is there a disconnector spring that could be worn? (so not pushing it back up with enough force anymore) And what about the recoil spring, wouldn't that also need to be a different spring with the 9x19 having more pressure than the 9mm Steyr?

[@thebotrchap]

Disconnector spring is fine. The recoil spring does not need to be changed out between calibers.

[@krockpotbroccoli65]

The aesthetics of your strange shooting glasses go with those of the pistol. You just need a strange hat to go along with it all.

[@CitizenSmith50]

$500 to get one to Australia ! ? No thanks; I'll keep waiting for the Fiocchi 9x23 ammo !

[@3of11]

.25 a round for 9 Luger versus .75 for Fiocchi 9 steyr. Ouch. Break even is 600rds on the $300 barrel.

[@jweathers131]

How hard is it to get stripper clips? Does anyone make new versions of the proper design, or is there an alternative?

[@blackpowderburner7296]

Czech SA 24/26 clips work well, are common, and cheap. Originals aren’t very hard to get either but pricier.

[@АндрейШмырев-ж3з]

Германцы после ,ашлюса, Австрии ...переделали австрийские ,штейры м1912, под 9×19 ,люгер,...так им было удобнее.Такие экземпляры попадались в виде трофеев Красной Армии на территории России.Хотя германцам при аншлюсе Австрии досталось всего около 60.000 ,м 1912,...довольно редкая была вещица на фоне 5 миллионов пистолетов произведенных в Германии до 1945 года.🧐

[@rosemaryblock7751]

Is the 9x23 hotter than the Parabellum round, power wise? Didnt the Germans make a "hot" Para load, for submachine guns during WW II? Or was European ammo just warmer than US made stuff?

[@nirfz]

Wikipedia says the 9x19 has more pressure. And from what i remember reading years ago, your +P ammo is the normal european 9x19. (There are no different power levels available here in europe that i have seen. 9x19 is always the same as NATO standard 9mm to my knowledge.)

[@BlokeontheRange]

Nah, there's a vast difference between manufacturers and loadings. I've got some Fiocchi 124gn that's seriously weak sauce. Saltech 124gn is quite hot. When you've got an integrally-suppressed PCC these differences become super visible.

[@nunyabidniz2868]

You're conflating the 9x25 "export Mauser" chambering that the SS had obtained a lot of Austrian subguns in w/ the 9x23 Steyr. Not to be confused w/ the 9x21 Largo popular w/ the Spanish police. [Let's count all the "9mm" rounds we can think of off the top of our heads, shall we? 9x17 Kurz, 9x18 Ultra, 9x19 Para, 9x20 Browning Long, 9x21 Largo, 9x23 Steyr, 9x25 Mauser [there's a few other x23s and x25 wildcats in there over the decades too, I think one was even homologated by Winchester? Ow, my head hurts now, make it stop!.. 🤪]

[@jamesW8316]

Nice video, thanks...

[@recoilrob324]

I've had several guns knock up a burr that started to impede function and a quick swipe or three of a stone knocked it down and then the gun ran fine with no more deformation. Considering that they are going to send you a new barrel....I'm wondering if you asked them to let you knock down the burr and see if it stops the deformation? Would be interesting at the least and might save people some grief down the road.

[@Tom-b8k1g]

Bought one of these 10-12 years ago. Fired it about 20rds, very accurate but sheared one of the lugs off and jammed up the gun. Was a bit of work to disassemble the gun. Contacted IGB and they sent another barrel to me without fuss or complaining. I’ve never fired the second barrel. The machining of the lugs of both barrels doesn’t match the original barrel. I suspected it was slightly different deliberately for the different pressure curve. But now I think it’s just poor work.

[@adonoghuea02]

You need your shooting (glasses, not sure what the correct terminology is) to be made out of brass and really lean into the steampunk aesthetic

[@Voelund]

Steampunks shooting goggles as well.... 3S? Swiss Steampunk Society? Have you tried a Ballistiol bath to clean that disconnect dirtiness?

[@AKlover]

Modern 9 mm Parabellum probably makes higher or equal pressure to the old 9 mm Austrian cartridge. In your position I think I just seal the old barrel into something covered in oil I am more or less forget about it unless for some reason I wanted to sell the gun

[@rusky1971]

how does 9x19 work in9x23 magazine without modification ?

[@blackpowderburner7296]

The shorter 9x19 don’t seem to be different enough in any dimension to matter with this design.

[@Dot-bs4yv]

what watch is that?

[@dmg4415]

The 9x19 seems to have a snappier recoil.

[@nunyabidniz2868]

It's a higher-pressure round than 9x23, so that figures...

[@dmg4415]

@nunyabidniz2868 A harder spring to slow down the initial movements?

[@cedhome7945]

So the 6in barrel isn't getting a thread on the end for a can? That would be worth it just to see the looks on people's faces at the club!..... Interesting nevertheless as usual 👍

[@isaaco5679]

I had the same thought. A competent smith should be able to thread it.

[@mistermann7579]

Once saw a comment under a video about the 1912, it said: “shoulda stopped at 1911” 😂

[@thebotrchap]

That’s funny since the commercial designation is the 1911 😜, the Austrians only adopted it from 1914 as the 1912.

[@blackpowderburner7296]

Would you mind describing the recoil impulse? The cz24 with a rotating barrel I have shoots like a .22 compared to my blow back cz38 with the same ammunition (both are in .380).

[@thebotrchap]

Recoil is a bit less than a modern polymer 9mm due to the weight but not significantly less. Same experience with my MAB PA-15. The recoil with 9x23 was smoother than 9x19 which was a little snappy.

[@leeharveyosmond]

Automatic pistol loaded from above via charger clip? Not seen that before

[@nunyabidniz2868]

Yes, WW1 gave a lot of field testing for those older "let's try it this way" firearms development dead-ends that seemed feasible in the early days of self-loaders. Completely normal & accepted in 1910 when the Steyr Hahn first surfaced, made popular by the C96 Broomhandle...

[@nunyabidniz2868]

Hey Chap, your audio from the workshop/studio is really muffled; just an FYI for next time.

[@imnotvoid8169]

Don't drop the hammer without the slide on, im not fully confident as I've never handled one but from my experience with similar guns it can cause damage. Love your videos though, keep up the good work 👍

[@ulaysoe6742]

Original barrel was a bit on the thin side.

[@БорисСимонов-э3п]

Почему бы не сделать как некоторые вставляют в потронник например в Browning m1903 кольцо чтобы более короткая гильза не проваливалась в патронник? В этом есть смысл так как очевидно есть не разница в закалке ствола. Вторая более важная проблема может быть в том что новый ствол не должен быть более твердый чем затвор иначе изнашиваться будет затвор а не ствол,это обычное правило в машиностроении. Так же надо помнить что если уторы затвора имеет некоторый износ то новые уторы строла плохо прилегают и легко меняют свою форму из за меньшего контакта. Надо быть очень осторожным с закалкой скорее всего производить специально именьшил твердость чтобы не иметь проблем но это так же плохо,твердость должна оптимальной и только немного меньше затвора. В некоторых случаях проше поставить в патронник упорное кольцо и не иметь проблем с непонятным качеством ствола и износом старых деталей так как оригинал ствола уже имеет нужную термообработку и за долгое время идеально поилегает к старым боевым упорам затвора

[@GaiusCaligula234]

@thebotrchap what wristwatch are you wearing in the video? Cheers

[@BSJ-VT]

Engagement.

[@Zek-vs6ox]

👏👏👏

[@thadward4629]

What are those glasses😂😂😂

[@thebotrchap]

Perfectly normal competition shooting glasses to enable aging and/or damaged eyes to see iron sights, why?

[@BFVgnr]

That's pretty neat that a company is making a barrel for an all but obsolete caliber in a very obsolete design. Bummer about the heat treat, hope they get it squared away.

[@nunyabidniz2868]

9mm Para obsolete? Not hardly... [But yeah, it's nice that someone is offering "update" parts for these old warhorses...]

[@elberttanner6189]

147 grain.

[@karlhakansson1706]

=) gunfunny

[@davidrossi3914]

I literaly found 80 rounds of 9 styr last week and you show up with this video AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!