A.B.I.torial: Jojo's Bizarre Fighting Games

[@OccuredJakub12]

I love that Mista 4 Curse mechanic because it discourages players from just keeping their ammo at its safest ampunt, not too much and not too little, and encourages either going with lower or higher amounts of ammo. It makes Mista fights feel more scrambly and panicked, which fits with the way he had to fight in the manga and his general personality

[@leithaziz2716]

Damn, Mista's gameplan seems like a protoype for Happy Chaos in Strive. That's cool.

[@diablorojo3887]

"vogue your way out of danger..." perfect And All star battle is a masterpiece on animation

[@geronimobellicoso1438]

It's surprisingly good looking! I wish it could be a different game but I really enjoyed my short time with it playing extremely casually

[@Ramsey276one]

5:55 YES YES YES *YES!*

[@Cri_Jackal]

Would just like to inform everyone that the origin of the term and archetype "puppet fighter" *comes* from Heritage For The Future, Devo is the ORIGINAL puppet fighter in fighting games, the entire reason why it's called a _"puppet"_ fighter is because his stand is _literally a puppet._

[@llDbGll]

This is actually pretty interesting. I also remember (maybe I'm wrong) that the term Tsundere originated from a Jojo character. I'm stretching my luck and betting it was Josuke's mom, but I can't remember. Edit: Damn, my memory is really bad. Yukako, Koichi's girlfriend, was the first ever Yandere. This was a surprise when I first read it. Jojo is an deeply influential piece of media, huh.

[@Cri_Jackal]

@@llDbGll Uh no, tsundere is WAY older than JoJo, there are tsundere characters as far back as 1972. And the anime that popularized the entire concept, raising it up to the notoriety it has today, was Evangelion in 1995. Though JoJo part 4 did run between 1992 and 1995. An obvious example of a tsundere predating JoJo is Launch from the _original_ Dragon Ball, who first appeared in the manga in 1985.

[@outoflamps9939]

@@llDbGll You're thinking of Yandere, I believe.

[@edwardfoley4244]

this isnt fucking true, guilty gear came out a year before with zato in it. Asuka 120% had a puppet character in 1994, 5 years before jojos. why would you just make some dumb shit up like this?

[@Cri_Jackal]

@@edwardfoley4244 I never said he was the first, I said he was the ORIGINAL that the entire archetype spawned from. And Guilty Gear came out the same year as JoJo's Venture, with JoJo's Venture releasing just a few months after Guilty Gear, the updated version, Heritage For The Future, came out the following year. Also the fact thag I and probably everyone else here has never heard of Asuka 120% before should tell you just how much influence it actually had.

[@HollowPurple-if2co]

Hirohiko Araki didn't write the Eyes of Heaven story mode, but he had a hand in some parts

[@srrorsas7811]

Yeah he only supervised.

[@striderm]

He basically provided the design for that version of DIO and some supervision. I think that’s about it.

[@pajamapantsjack5874]

Fun fact: the physical release of All star battle is going for like 100+ bucks. It’s a neat little way to show how jojo wasn’t as popular in the west when that game came out

[@returnedtomonkey8886]

When was that released? 2013 iirc.

[@mrhades113]

@@returnedtomonkey8886 Before part 3 anime, so yeah, around 2013.

[@CherryPixelBun]

Gotdamn, i remember buying that for like $40 in 2014. I might go sell that now that I have a PC that runs it better than it did on PS3

[@DHTokyo3915]

When the game came out in Japan, it was in the bargain bin the next week because everybody was pissed by the stamina system. I remember the loading time at the beginning was atrocious. I still have my copy, so maybe they did some patches to fix a lot of stuff (I know we had some patches in the weeks following the release to soften some aspects people were complaining about, but I don't know how much they patched the game in the following months).

[@stylesheetra9411]

I got the collector for 40€ I obv opened it tho

[@Pyre]

A quick note that Eyes of Heaven also features an alternative 'good end" timeline for the whole franchise that is honestly tearjerking. Hurrah for licensed fanfic.

[@eieneidnf]

Except jorge joestar

[@PetraDunamancer]

Can you really call it a fanfic if it’s written by the author himself?

[@dressigvil]

I'd argue there's one thing that keeps us from a fighting game that truly feels like JoJo, and that's its aspects of mystery, dynamism and improvisation. Many times in the story we see characters come up with on-the-fly solutions against enemy powers that they have incomplete information over to win the day, and deducing an enemy's Stand power and making a significant turnaround from that information is a core component of an exhilarating JoJo battle. In fighting game terms, JoJo fights are all about learning character matchups mid-fight or die trying, so when that mystery is solved I feel like it's going to be hard to maintain the "JoJoness" of the fighting game, if that makes sense.

[@cise3895]

I think the best bet at trying to capture those aspects of JoJo would be giving the players tons of agency as to how they express their ideas and style, agency that is at least somewhat accessible to even new players. IMO newbies and casuals usually end up playing very similarly to each other in most, if not all other fighting games because they just want to score a hit on the other person, which when pit against more dedicated players ends up giving a repetitive, predictable experience. Now, as to _how_ any dev would implement this…I have no fucking clue

[@coyraig8332]

I feel like they could do that at least a little, by having the multiple fighting styles be selected by different button inputs instead of the usual "highlight and press select" way. The meters would have to all look the same and some characters would need Jostar levels of creativity to design, but focusing on mindgames could work really well. Imagine your opponent picks Jotaro. You might pick a zoner style to counter a rushdown style with several rapid punched, but he might expect that and pick one with more powerful supers, where you should pick something that can end the game faster, but he might predict that too so you both need to figure each other out.

[@panetoneninjacanal2692]

But what if it was a team fighting game, not only it gains this learning matchups on the fly thing (because its not just character vs character, its team vs team) it also gains the teamwork aspect of jojo of trying to work together with the diferent stands (for example, imagine if you were dio on time stop, than you threw some knives, then change to kira and explode those knifes for big damage, that would be really cool)

[@incognitiosaystransrights]

@@coyraig8332 maybe something like 3rd strike's supers would work? cause a few characters play completely differently depending on what super you pick

[@PikaPenny17]

I feel like you could get that level of incomplete information for a jojolike fighting game by, instead of having characters with their own movesets, each match you have randomly selected moves unconnected to the specific character. Gameplay would consist of trying to figure out what your enemy's moves are and try to trick them into a perfect place for one of your moves while avoiding their own tricks.

[@geld1620]

For the "clones" point on HFTF, they aren't actually clones like ryu/ken. The characters mentioned play significantly differently from each other and have their own strengths, and some of them are VERY DRASTICALLY different, like rubber soul and kak, or chaka and bpol. Those guys are nothing alike playwise, you just went off the models and stands. I love the diversity between having different designs for the same JoJo character (once again rubber is NOT comparable to the kaks in design or gameplay), and I think it does the game a great disservice to say half the roster is unnecessary because they're just based off different iterations of the same character, despite their drastically different playstyle.

[@owengilroy9256]

big chungus

[@Cock-Man]

Okey.

[@anongoldster9915]

Shadow Dio was honestly iconic, my favorite clone character

[@HawkHollywood]

hi geld

[@geld1620]

@@HawkHollywood squeank

[@clashmanthethird]

"The nature of stand battles usually dictates that the enemy stand user initiates the fight with an overwhelming advantage that the victim needs to figure out" Honestly, thinking about how you'd capture this in a multiplayer setting, my mind instantly thought of Hunt Showdown and made me realize that a JoJo Battle Royale game actually makes way more sense than a fighting game. You could very easily turn that feeling of being shot at and having no idea where the opponent is, into the feeling of being ambushed by an enemy stand user. I assumed JoJo Last Survivor was a ridiculous cashgrab, but maybe they're onto something.

[@srrorsas7811]

Nope, 100% a cashgrab Last survivor sucks

[@cise3895]

Yeah, as much as a JoJo fighting game sounds great on paper, other genres would probably do a better job capturing the full JoJo experience. Tbf though, ABI wasn’t arguing that a fighting game made *more* sense than any other kind of game.

[@llDbGll]

Please, DO NOT encourage Epic to make a Jojo crossover unless you want to see what a real, 100% authentic ridiculous cashgrab looks like.

[@harlannguyen4048]

There is a Jojo battle royale game, but it's exclusive to Japanese arcades.

[@Inari_the_Fox]

I'm still mad that didn't call that game "The last stand".

[@sodfheisnbc8395]

Can we get a moment to appreciate cc2? they're expert at fan-service in each series they've done and even their stand-alone stuff (Asura's Wrath and the fuga series) is also great.

[@leithaziz2716]

CC2 games are great casual fun, but that's about it really when it comes to what you can get out of those games. Not bad games though. Asura's Wrath though is underrated imo. Allthough the amount of fan-service and attention to detail they do is excellent.

[@rumncoke76]

I fucking hate them myself, but maybe I shouldn't. Their games are bad and style over (gameplay) substance, but if they weren't around we would probably get more anime games that don't even service the fans properly.

[@thomasthecoolkid7228]

They should remake Asura's Wrath into one of their classic arena fighters. The walks through an area and big group fights could easily be turned into their classic story mode gameplay shift, and it would make the 1v1 or 2v1 fights play _so much better._ Also, playing online against your friends with _those characters_ would be a dream come true.

[@shupasopni]

@@leithaziz2716 Fuga is an actually great and heart wrenching tactical jrpg about war orphans in fantasy WW2.

[@Bone8380]

I'd rather not. CC2 is like disappointment distilled and turned into a game dev studio. Pretty much every single one of their games are all style and no substance. If they could hire some people who actually know how to make the most vitally important part of a video game be better than merely serviceable and less painfully mediocre, then maybe I'll start actually respecting them as developers.

[@bananabike279]

"Vogue-ing your way out of danger" is one of the funniest yet on-point descriptions I've ever heard lol One thing that also held All Star Battle was the campaign mode and it's weird mobile-game like way of unlocking new costumes and such :/ But aside from that, ASB has to be my favourite out of the 3!

[@kevingriffith6011]

I do think the "starting from a disadvantage" stand battle is something that better fits in a story mode, but we're trying to capture that *in gameplay* so let's brainstorm a bit. Bit of a disclaimer that this probably won't make the most balanced fighting game experience, but then again when has that ever stopped a Jojo game, and all of these ideas assume some kind of "meter" system that is pretty common in all fighting games these days. 1. Maybe some kind of pre-match setup phase. I don't know what a full-blown setup minigame would look like, but I would avoid anything that pulls you out of the core battle system: You don't want people to say "ugh, this stupid minigame again" every time you start a match. 2. A wager system... something like both players start with full meter and bet a certain amount of it in secret, and the player who bet the most meter gets an advantage. In the case of a tie neither player gets the advantage. 3. Both players start with full meter, which can be used to activate this advantaged state as a super on hit. This way it comes down to the first person to land a clean hit into super gets the advantage, but this one is a *really dangerous one* since I don't care what fighting game you're playing, some characters have an easier time getting hits in than others. You could theoretically balance that out by having the characters with worse neutral have a better advantaged state, but I don't know. Do I think any of these ideas are potentially fun? Eh... "Disadvantaged state" is too nebulous of a concept to make any judgement on, but this at least facilitates that jojo style setup.

[@cise3895]

#3 sounds the best-fit to a fighting game, but I think #2 best emulates the nature of the advantage in a lot of JoJo fights: the mystery and surprise. Most players will never experience the same stress of not knowing what the hell is going to happen-at least not in the same way the characters do in the series-just because they’re already familiar with the characters and their powers. But this wager system at least allows players to be caught off-guard by the *other players* controlling the characters. Also the idea is just completely fucking bonkers, 100% in-line with the series.

[@DyxoXinoro]

#1 reminds me a lot of the character customization menu in Dissidia. Which is a super controversial feature, though admittedly not as much as it's Bravery system, that has been known to cause matches that are a half hour long at high level play because both players spent 20+ min customizing their characters to try and predict whatever their opponent is predicting they would do. Which, honestly, sounds hilariously on brand for JoJo. Or at least on brand for Battle Tendancy.

[@MT-jd8pc]

The second one is basically the clash system in the injustice games

[@splitreality8712]

In defense of the 2 polnareffs,regular polnareff is your general bring stand out, pull it back in, change moveset etc. Black pol actually doesn’t have a stand mode, instead he has unique attacks by using the stand button, and he’s actually a rekka character.

[@SuperLJTheOriginal]

Also rubber soul is extremely different from the other kakyoins, and all the anubis users are different from each other with virtually no similarities, shadow dio is basically standless dio with different moves which makes him very different from regular dio, hoingo is the closest we have to clone however his playstyle is still extremely different from regular hol

[@starbreaker6740]

@@SuperLJTheOriginal the only thing they share is the learning mechanic, I think

[@realfromtherealreality4148]

I remember someone making a video over how King Crismon could work in a fighting game, and it was brilliant! (You also forgot to precise that Heritage for The Future is the only game where Midler is playable, alongside officially getting a design, after being basically one-shotted in the original manga. Devo is also a neat idea for a puppet character in a 2d game.)

[@HollowPurple-if2co]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpi3f5d3pqylidE

[@HollowPurple-if2co]

He had a few other ideas in there and they were all really interesting

[@realfromtherealreality4148]

@@HollowPurple-if2co Exactly! (I didn't post the link out of fear for my comment to be deleted.)

[@Cri_Jackal]

Devo was the original puppet character _PERIOD._ As in, the _entire_ reason it's called a _puppet_ fighter is because Devo's stand is a _literal puppet._ He's the character every other puppet fighter is based on.

[@llDbGll]

Midler's appearance is really well made. Araki is a master in characterizations through clothing, and her design is just 😙👌🏻

[@Valforg]

DIO doing a team attack with his bf to punch someone at mac5 speed is the coolest thing I've ever seen. Also, the taunt reset tech holy sht. And the animation of kira's bite za dusto is, soooo on point

[@WDSimp]

Using the mystery stand advantage seems like it would be a good fit for a story mode, giving the players some kind of puzzle solving element to discover the nature of the enemy stand as well as it's weakness before transitioning into a more classically styled brawl.

[@jonnysac77]

I just want an actual fighting game studio to get ahold of the JoJo license

[@tokuguythereviewer4496]

like arc systems

[@pabloespinola3855]

The day that arc sistem announces a Jojo fighting game with the care of FighterZ ....i can die in peace

[@cise3895]

Iirc, CAPCOM was _the_ fighting game studio when they released Heritage to the Future. I still feel the same way, though; that was a long-ass time ago.

[@fissilewhistle]

I wouldn’t mind if Capcom took another shot at a Jojo game once their fighting game division gets their shit together.

[@bennyboi5179]

@@pabloespinola3855 is lxx as n

[@icabiyas9650]

The coolest feature in All Star Battle that almost never gets brought up is that you can make the game play music you have downloaded on your PS3. So you can play using the anime openings and stuff

[@bfeldz1023]

Honestly, JoJo seems like the perfect property for an asymmetric multiplayer vs game.

[@twinkpeaks9993]

I mean, I guess there's Last Survivor...

[@TomMendy]

The first one was on dreamcast also it was my first experience with the Jojo universe it was worth every penny

[@Evergladez]

Cool down abilities would help capture the jojo feel in a fighter without compromising gameplay. The puzzle comes from trying to guess which ability the enemy would use and when. That's pretty much the point in the battle where they've figured out the opponents stand and now have to beat it story mode could help with the initial process of the puzzle.

[@MrCraftingchannel]

Imagine ArcSys making a Jojo's game in which each character had their own specific mechanics and gimmicks. It would be godlike, especially if they inserted some universal mechanics like the taunting from all star battle and stuff like that.

[@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034]

*STOP*

[@MrCraftingchannel]

​@@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034​ No, let's suffer toghether :)

[@leithaziz2716]

My money's already on the table, Arcsys : )

[@leithaziz2716]

@AT Productions I can understand coming to that reaction. To me, it's moreso that I find Arcsys my first pick when it comes to a good blend of presentation, fun mechanics, non homogonus cast, good netcode, attention to detail, etc. Capcom needs to get their act together and I think SNK is great, but I wanna give them more time to get better with the art design. That's basically why everyone wants Arcsys for everything. Of course, variety is the spice of life, so I also get where you're coming from even if it doesn't bother me as much.

[@leithaziz2716]

@AT Productions Thing is, for me Arcsys provides substance as well. They've done a pretty good job with DBFZ and Strive. THAT's why I dont mind it, because they strike the right balance. As long as it's not a Granblue-like game, we're good. Only big issue people might forget is that Arcsys rosters are not big (unless you're published by Bamco I guess?). So they need to be prepared for around 15 characters at launch.

[@Gero_XZ]

I think the funniest thing about this video is that he describes the Injustice games to be his ideal JoJo game

[@mix1947]

ArakI stated that when he thought of stands he realize that battles didn’t needed to be brawls he needed drama and misdirection to excite the viewers so essentially it’s hard to make a fighting video game about JoJo while including stands. I think they should do a 3d fighter again but locked the stage but have a ton of stage interaction and have tag team system instead of what they did in eyes over heaven

[@twinkpeaks9993]

I really want a port of All Star Battle to modern systems with 60fps, I honestly think ASB is an excellent game

[@lordanzu8763]

I don't know about the framerate yet but it seems like it's happening.

[@_insomniac_423]

I think the best genre that would fit a JoJo game would be some kind of hybrid of an action game and a point-and-click adventure game.

[@Artersa]

I always thought JoJo would work well as an RPG or CRPG. Something where you can take time to create unique scenarios that aren’t inherently “fighting game materials”.

[@johnman6836]

That's basically 7th stand user. It's an unofficial fangame but it's really good

[@Peasham]

A point and click game would fit Jojo perfectly. No one's gonna make it, but it would.

[@dariogonzalez8989]

The mental image of a LucasArts-style JoJo point n' click is now in my head, and I blame you for it.

[@Micha-Hil]

wh-

[@ArcCaravan]

Cool topic on Jojo's fighting games. Closest thing I can think of to a fighting game that best catches stand battles would be adding competitive puzzle elements and a lot of stage interactions. Each character would get abilities to set traps before the battle or get into better positions before trying to counter the other's "puzzle", each character having different priorities on making and solving puzzles or using the environment. Kind of an asymmetrical multiplayer experience if that makes any sense. Mostly I want to capture the feel Narancia vs Formaggio or Josuke vs Kira, two fighters having to figure out how their opponent is doing what they do and how to stop them while keeping their assault going.

[@CoolerMartin]

I fucking love ASB thank you for putting it in the lime light a little more

[@ItsDanbo]

I really just like jojo fighting games for the fact that they use lore accurate abiltiies, like how sheer heart attack can be stopped by Act 3 Freeze, or redirected when Avdol burns someone. It's those details from the series that make he game so much fun to play.

[@seanr.6498]

Dio deserves to have so many clones, his powersets are so different. Shit, Eyes of Heaven should've made a playable version of Dio Over Heaven.

[@leoangelomiranda3312]

Been saying this since XRD came out: ARCSYS, PLEASE MAKE A JOJO GAME!!!

[@Kriss_ch.]

If you want that jojo experience in game form I feel like we need a horror game with a buncha different weirdo monsters that all hound you until you ora ora them completely at the end. Like how Little Nightmares or whatever would have one boss monster hound you for each section of the game until you get to turn the tables somehow in the finale of the area. Only a bit more hype than that, naturally. Which is a hard sell for horror fans I think, but that's more fair to the source material than any fighting game could do for most of these fights

[@maotheraconteur5369]

Sugarpunch Design Works is a JoJo reference now.

[@negative1001]

To add to what would make for a good JoJo's fighting game, I'd love for it to be a 2V2 game like Eyes of Heaven (Though obviously in a 2D format like MVCI or Project L) for all the reasons you mentioned in the video and more. Gameplay wise, I think it could create a lot of specific interactions and character combinations that a player hasn't seen before, and that alone would fair well for JoJo's as seeing unique stands and fights is what gives the manga/anime a lot of their charm. This would take a lot of time obviously, but specific team interactions would give the game a very unique sense of player expression, maybe stuff like Koichi being able to use his abilities on a teammates stand or whatever, causing it to fall and have a hitbox (something like Narancia's plane). I really hope we get to see a new JoJo's fighting game soon. Arcysys would be a great studio to make one

[@realislit8064]

If accurate jojo battle involves an enemy having advantage, does that mean the jojo battle royale has thr most accurate depiction of a jojo battle?

[@kylenguyen7371]

4:04 Say it loud, and say it proud, doods! To hell with that vile bird!

[@toanuva6178]

For a Future JoJo game, it’d be cool if they brought back older Araki characters into the roster like when All Star Battle included Ikuro Hashizawa/Baoh as DLC.

[@seanr.6498]

Baoh was FUCKING HYPE, my god.

[@joshbruh6584]

Irene would have such a cool moveset tbh

[@Motleydoll123]

I think also there could be some characters who might fight very differently compared to others. Like the lovers, goo-goo doll, little fingers, and such for example all have some variety of different size or perspective altering powers. Lovers forces a internal stand vs stand battle if steely Dan lands any stand hit, and if the stand is not active… Dan just brutalises his opponent with no counter play until his stand is defeated in th internal battle, where things function as normal, except Dan no longer has his stand and because of his, he is very easy to just pound into the dirt. Little feet though either shrinks himself to be evasive but more vulnerable to damage, or shrinks his enemy to weaken them and dominate the fight, however, his the focus of his stand breaks… the size situation resets. As for gwess, she can punch her enemy and hit them with regular objects, her stand shrinks her enemy to small size, forcing a fight with the small stand goo-goo dolls… but that’s not the biggest issue… the biggest issues is now you have to also deal with giantess gwess also beating the shit out of you. Of course… you can beat her normally by beating her stand and finishing her off when she pulls back the stand, but also giving yourself some distance can help you negate her stands shrinking. Of course… a task easier said than done, given gwess while giant handily wins grabs and can inflict devious damage with any of her attacks.

[@peeton4031]

I really liked all star battle! Something I noticed when watching high level play was that, the game is focused around loops. I’ve seen the diavolo loop that consists of like, 3 moves but it’s an infinite. There’s also Johnny’s which is a little harder to do since it involves a charge motion. At a casual level it’s pretty great too, having a KOF max mode cancel is pretty cool and being able to have your stand start a motion and use some meter to move yourself while your stand continues attacking is great.

[@NEET1822]

All Star Battle no longer has any "Infinites" in the way of combos anymore outside of MiH Pucci, and hasn't had any for a long time now.

[@OmegasWorkshop]

I think an interesting idea would be for an asymmetrical JoJo game in the style of say DBD or the recent Dragon Ball The Breakers, where a team of players playing as JoJo protags or team members goes against JoJo villains, needing to find their weakness or just survive long enough to get openings. It’d keep that puzzle battle idea while letting either side feel the satisfaction of playing that side of a JoJo battle

[@Starborn_XVII]

I love that you posted this when i was researching how people would like a jojo fighting game to be made because well... I would love to make one, like an actual licensed fighting game so this helps a lot

[@TheSignGuy1234]

I've got some bad news. Said news involves an all star remaster and a particular bird that has ice powers.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

He's there because we needed a ice user and Pet Shop already had a model.

[@mas8705]

“F*** Pet Shop.” *meanwhile, a bird in the distance stares down menacingly*

[@o_oro-q1k]

All of the fanservice and details in All Star really had me shook. If it played more like Heritage it would've been perfect.

[@Zadamanim]

I feel like a turn based game would fit the series more, especially since they have the chance to monologue between every attack. A turn based single player game would also allow for very asymmetrical balance, like JRPG bosses having extremely high hp. I imagine something like Valkyria Chronicles but with stands instead of guns. Finding the right position on the field, assigning the right actions to assign each stardust crusader, exploring the map to find the enemy stand user, and mitigating their unfair advantage as much as possible, would be the most important tactics needed to clear the scenario battles.

[@realfromtherealreality4148]

Oh boy, Heritage to the Future, here we go!

[@Shnibbledacat]

I think for me, a good jojo fighting game would have to be one where i am able to fully utilize the potential of a character. and if we're going by that goal alone i don't think it's too difficult! at least barring a few characters that are *impossible* to have as a fighting game character, so the roster will have to be specific in what characters to have. As for the abilities, i honestly feel there's a lot of potential in some of them! Besides the notable stands from Stardust Crusaders being very simple in nature as we've seen that they were able to implement the abilities quite well in HFtF. We can still implement some of the more unorthofox abilities, like imagine if you can play as Mista, you set up your bullet buddies (like how Venom from GG sets up his balls) around the screen, and the bullet you shoot would ricochet between them. Another similar example would be Kraftwerk (whose ability is to store kinetic energy in objects or hold them in place), where you could place some items whether as platforms or hit them and depending how much you hit them you could have a very slow projectile or a really fast near-instant ones! If we bring up another example from GG, even a stand like Moody Blues whose abilities are not as combat-oriented could work like Bedman since he'd be able to "rewind" previous attacks and moves that were used! Even simple things like how The Hand's swipes could create empty spaces in which if you walk into them you'd teleport past it, with whatever gameplay benefit that would give. As long as I am able to creatively use a Stand ability to fight my opponent, i would be very satisfied! and isn't that one of the most fun things about FGs anyways? figuring out ways to open up your opponent, making counter-plays against their strategies and such. I truly do hope that someone (ahem, based arcsys maybe *cough*) could make the dream jojo fighting game come true someday.

[@joshbruh6584]

I think sale on his own might not have that unique of a moveset , mainly involving setting up traps that hold the opponent in place so I’d have him as a team up character with his partner the guy with Soft Machine kinda like the entire stallion in hftf. He could be used to stab the opponent and stun them like hanged man does or could deflate sale and pull him underground to dodge attacks or as a teleport .

[@reilly5005]

3:55 none of these are clones. they all play very differently

[@joshbruh6584]

True but the animations are recycled though and new Kakyoin basically doesn’t have any different moves from regular kak

[@JH-lb6qf]

And now we have All Star Battle R. SuperPunch predicted this.

[@Original_Katros]

I think what could be done instead is having a sort of 'Handicap Mode' that adds the elements of a typical JoJo fight. Maybe something like: You select your character and you don't get to see your opponent in a VS. screen, and during battle the opponent is a black silhouette and their attacks do more damage, and yours do less, and it would be through countering/defending, successfully landing a certain number of hits on the opponent or other factors like getting too far from your opponent for them to hit you (like let's say you're fighting Jotaro and you exit his effective range where even Star Finger won't catch you for a couple seconds) that you would meet the criteria for your opponent and ability to be revealed to you, making the odds even and changing the damage back to normal.

[@cise3895]

I think this is a really cool idea, just that the damage modifier would have to be exclusive to story mode. After all, you can’t have both players simultaneously doing more and less damage.

[@Original_Katros]

@@cise3895 That's true, I was thinking of it as VS. CPU thing as well, Co-op at most

[@insanemakaioshin]

9:30 - there were 2 Diego's in SBR Heritage's Gameplay + All-Star's Visual Style & Gimmicks + Eye's Roster

[@DBShinnin]

Gonna “well actually” you real quick about 4:18. CC2 isn’t “largely responsible” for Bandai’s arena fighters. They made 2 out of the at least 10(?) series out there. Then they went on to put out the Demon Slayer game for another publisher. All Star Battle wasn’t a departure from their usual fighter either, since they put out a whole series of 2D fighters before they made arena fighters. The Eyes of Heaven section is… questionable. On one hand, what you said about the gameplay is pretty spot-on except it being hard to pin people down. On the other hand, everything else before you got to the story is iffy. The “clones,” except Part 4 Jotaro, don’t play the same. The Puccis are just All Star Battle’s Puccis split in two (Whitesnake & C-Moon with Made in Heaven) so Pucci would be a viable character in this environment. The Diegos use different stands (won’t talk about that for the anime-onlys). Each stage has a gimmick that affects a match, like Grateful Dead’s aging on the train station stage, so part of the battle involves fighting shit like that off or using it to your advantage. The lip flaps excuse doesn’t fly, not when some dialogue is reused from All Star Battle and some characters had proper animation in-game (Jolyne & Ermes’ interaction). If the fanservice aspect of All Star Battle makes it a great JoJo game, Eyes of Heaven is arguably a better one since not making it a 2D fighter let them put more varied attacks and applications of them in it. Definitely a worse fighting game, though. Also, not mentioning .hack is a crime.

[@BainesMkII]

It's not just that manga/anime Stand Battles start with one side having a massive advantage. As the are treated like puzzles, "solving" the puzzle can eliminate a fair amount of their threat. That's okay in a manga where the whole point is for the hero to struggle until victory is attained, and afterwards it doesn't matter how the balance stands. But it doesn't work so well in a fighting game where you are expected to keep facing opponents that you've already "solved".

[@aegisreflector1239]

Capcoms Jojos Heritage for the Future games are my favorite. It was my very first introduction to the Jojos series on Dreamcast back in 2000. The sprites are great running on the same hardware as one of the greatest fighting games of all time Street Fighter 3 3rd Strike. Its also a solid fighting game in itself. Wish it was out for modern consoles as well as the other games.

[@miningapple1058]

I’ve always thought it would be sweet if we got some sort of game that focuses heavily on the stand battle part. Focusing more on environment interactions and unique abilities over face to face brawling. I know it’s a strange pull but I feel like if you could somehow take rainbow six sieges necessity for environmental awareness and destruction mechanics, make it 1v1, and have each character fitted with completely unique mechanics and systems on the same level as a guilty gear character it might become a fun time.

[@darkknight072]

Hope we get an All Star Battle sequel someday, hopefully with less characters tied to the PSN servers as DLC.

[@OneGamer2EnvyThemAll]

Uh-huh.

[@v.emiltheii-nd.8094]

Hftf is my favorite due to nostalgia. Also for spoiling me on Part 3 in a great way as a kid. :3

[@brandonfelix8116]

Alright I have to disagree with asb being a bad fighting game. The asb community didn't ban any characters compared to hftf, that firstly says a lot about the balance. Also no sidestep is extremely important in this game, characters are literally balanced around the fact that they would be unbeatable without sidestep

[@seanr.6498]

He didn't say it was bad, just that it (probably) wasn't good. It's a squarely average fighter, and that's fine.

[@theoneandonly2441]

Eyes of Heaven may not be a great anime arena brawler (same can be said with most of its kind), but I'd still play it over Knights of Brittania, Jump Force, One Punch Man AHNN and other weaker anime arena fighting blunders just for the lively presentation and tasteful fanservice alone. Still sucks that it doesn't have local co-op though.

[@seanr.6498]

Oh fuck, I forgot Knights of Brittania was even a thing.

[@MegaDoogles]

I feel like the JJBA battle royale game would have been worth looking into and mentioning here, even if it's not gotten a home console release. From what I've seen, the battle royale genre suits JJBA surprisingly well

[@dusknoir64]

Not sure what prompeted me to come back to this but I feel like the only way you could truely make a perfect jojo fighting game, is if you somehow designed the world's first asymetric fighting game. And good luck figuring that one out, cause outside of the concept itself I have no damn idea.

[@BingBangPoe]

I want a Jojo fighting game made by ArcSystems. I can't think of a better developer to make it than them. They really solidified themselves as the best anime fighter devs ever. Also, hear me out: what if Jojo JRPG instead of a fighting game?

[@Gamsterjeff600]

Im happy we are getting All Star battle as a new release adding a new gameplay option and no longer requiring campaign mode to unlock costumes also better frame rate. I personally dont think its a bad fighting game.

[@jackawaka]

I think jojo's doesn't need a fighting game, but a singleplayer action game that follows the "villian of the week" style of structure. That way you can genuinely capture that feeling.

[@arandomguyontheinternet2308]

It exist is the golden wind one

[@thekoifishcoyote8762]

Implement a fighting style system, but instead of picking from a menu you pick by pushing a button. Make them play subtly different and let the mindgames commence! They're mainly using normals so did they pick a style with bad specials or are they trying to psych you out? Was that taunt to boost damage or gauge fill rate? Was that last move a tiny bit faster or was it your imagination? There should also be settings for if you change styles between rounds. Just an extra layer to the mindgames.

[@GamerTowerDX]

This is the most elegant solution yet

[@thekoifishcoyote8762]

This idea was even better than I thought. It doesn't just give mindgames: it lets players reveal their tricks at the perfect moment like a JoJo character

[@IkariTheWraith]

I always thought that JoJo lent itself best to a Battle Royale type game, where you're dropped into an arena against an unknown opponent and you have to figure it out before they get the drop on you or spring their trap. Granted, you could be doing the same, and that's where JoJo's trademark second-guessing comes into play.

[@twinkpeaks9993]

There is a JoJo battle royale game but it isn't really strategic or trap based like you mentioned.

[@cise3895]

If we’re trying to emulate that sense of an unfair advantage before the fighting even starts, we could take Melty Blood’s system of allowing players to move around before a round and give it a shit ton of steroids. Before each round, each player can not only freely move around, but also use specials, summon their stands, or literally anything except damage the other player. As an example, imagine Faust could just pull out pull out like 3 bananas or trumpets or some shit before the “LET’S ROCK!” prompt

[@chadafiy]

Doesn't make you feel the exaggerated swagger of a Japanese delinquent with a ghost body guard. 6/10

[@timogul]

I think instead of a fighter, if you _had_ to make a multiplayer Jojo game, it would be better as an asymmetric game, like Dead by Daylight, where player A picks a Jojo villain, and then players B, C, D, however many they allow get to pick one of the hero characters, who tend to be a bit more straight forward. You wouldn't know who you're fighting in advance, so you couldn't meta a perfect combo, but each hero should have _some_ option for dealing with the villains' shenanigans The villain would have various options to lay traps, separate heroes, and pick them off, while the heroes would need to complete objectives to defeat the villain. I think it could be really crazy, although to really be fun the players would need to understand their characters well.

[@Micha-Hil]

Fun Fact: Roblox has a plethora of JoJo arena fighting games, all varying in quality, and they're all as fucked as it sounds

[@johnr5779]

All I’m saying is that a brutally difficult turn based jojo strategy game would slap

[@DarkGodJames]

I absolutely love the shit out of All Star Battle

[@cyrusbrown2275]

Bro same, shit is amazing

[@LUKEYDIE]

god i wish they put it on ps4

[@donavanwarren426]

Good news

[@eath2496]

the jojo stan battles actually sound like the formula for a fun single player

[@nathanl8622]

It's not a fighting game but that one JoJo battle royale looks like it comes closest to capturing the vibe of a JoJo fight. It puts the focus on positioning and the noncombat applications of Stand powers, both of which are way more important than pure fighting ability in most JoJo battles. As much as I think a proper JoJo fighting game would be cool I think other genres are just plain better at doing it justice.

[@mikaelamonsterland]

i think calling the alternate Pucci and Diegos clones is pretty off mark because their stands not being the same wildly differentiates how they function in game

[@WabbitHunter47]

I think my favorite part of the Eyes of Heaven story was part 4 Josuke decking Joshu out of impatience.

[@danielchen1047]

7th stand user (an rpgmaker fangame) is what i would really consider a "jojo game". From a personalith test to determine your stands, the wacky ass unique stands, the way your stand can solve problems outside of just battle is all really fun!

[@Xynbra]

10:38 I wonder if he'll make a vid focused on the Project X Zone series since they have alot of cool team attacks. Maybe he'll also include Namco X Capcom and Super Robot Wars OG Endless Frontier

[@JBNagis]

your channel randomly popped up on my feed and I'm glad it did. get this sub homey

[@raikaria3090]

Gonna have to argue with calling Deigo a clone character in Eyes of Heaven. One is Deigo Brando from the SBR universe, with the stand Scary Monsters. The other is an alternate universe Diego Brando with The World; who; if anything, is a Dio clone. The two Diegos have entirely different kits; abilities and powers. Calling the Deigos clones of each other is like calling Part 1 Dio and Part 3 Dio the same character.

[@aegisreflector1239]

Arcsystemworks made imo a game that had influence from Heritage of the Future in their Persona 4 Arena games. Similarly you also use stands or personas as well as every character having different properties and some no stand/persona. A rerelease is coming out next March

[@heavymetalmixer91]

Persona as a series already existed as a Shin Megami Tensei spin-off with Jojo inspirations since the 90s, ASW teaming up with ATLUS in the PS3 era to bring us two FGs of P3+P4 was a godsend. Now, given that the new release on March has Denuvo, there's no rollback confirmed and the balance we're getting is the last one in arcades (the kusoge one) the future is looking rather grim.

[@JTown465]

Something people are pointing out is that it's technically not the arcade release. The final arcade balance was version 2.0, but the new port has been saying version 2.5. It's unlikely, but there might be a chance that the Shadow alts aren't absurdly OP this time.

[@idon7613]

I feel like Persona 4 arena might scratch my itch for a jojo fighter, but it being pure p4/3 is a little limited in scope

[@KingOfDarknessAndEvil]

If you don't have it already, get it, it's grest

[@TheNexDude]

I'm not shocked at all I recently started getting into Jojo and it's fucking rad.

[@chopper8209]

THEY SHOULD RERELEASE HERITAGE OF THE FUTURE!!!

[@rootfelixfake6716]

4:20 I believe there was a point where everyone stopped pronouncing "Bandai Namco" correctly.

[@heehomgee4671]

I would actually love to see a Heritage to the Future version of Jojolion with the craziest characters.

[@KillerMeme]

I also remember eyes of heaven has some stupid levels of detail too such as Sheer Heart attack not functioning properly in the burning mansion and is drawn towards fire attacks more Also that The Hand can erase sheer heart attack and remove stray cat for Kira to then have to collect back

[@joshbruh6584]

Two characters I really want to see in the next JoJo game that I’ve seen get brushed off as unable to work are Lucy Steel and Axl RO . This mostly stems from people’s lack of understanding on how Ticket to Ride works and how Civil War is based on the opponents own guilt but I think they could both be amazing fighters and I’ll put my ideas in the comments if anyone wants to read .

[@joshbruh6584]

Lucy - Accidental attacks like B.B. Hood in Darkstalkers but can switch to using her tear blades . The more she hits the opponent with her tear blades the stronger her specials get but the attacks themselves are weaker . Specials involve instances of Ticket to Ride’s Divine Protection causing events to play out in Lucy‘a favour ; bringing in objects like carts and bees nests to attack the opponent , causing a mouse to scare Lucy that she jumps away from and bumps into the opponent , causing the opponent to randomly miss their attack for a counter and as a bonus she could either call out Steven Steel or Part 8 Joseph for an assist which you can switch between like Hol Horse in HFTF where he can either fight with Hanged Man or Boingo but she only takes up one character slot so think of it more like variations in Mortal Kombat . Steven used to be a boxer so he could punch the opponent with some quick jabs or use some of his attractions like the mini-horses for a low projectile or the hairless monkey to latch onto the foe and attack them meanwhile Joseph could throw his sandals for projectiles or use his stand’s vines .

[@greenpoolball5136]

Nice video, was hoping for a longer video but it's short and to the point.

[@Wlightning25]

I haven't played any of these games, but they do look cool. I hope the idea of a Jojo's fighting game would be revisited in the near future.

[@MarioGMan25]

I just want the Yakuza devs to make a Jojo game.

[@Benxall]

I don't know what would make the perfect jojo fighting game but tandem NEEDS to be there. Making combos by attacking with your stand was fucking sick.

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

Jojo: It jusgt simply works!!

[@Xeroxthebeautiful]

One additional issue with Eyes of heaven is that iirc multiplayer is online only with god awful netcode so basically even if you do have a friend to play with you mostly can't

[@twilightwolf90]

ASB is getting an updated port. I'm so hype. They confirmed more characters and a balance pass. Also assists!

[@tubazo1989]

Fuck Pet Shop! All my homies hate Pet Shop! -signed by the Iggy Gang

[@marplatense31]

"What would make for a perfect JoJo fighting game?" Well, it would need to star a character named "JoJo" and they need to be setting off on a bizarre adventure of some kind.

[@BlackIce0]

I been playing alot of Jojo PS1 and god I love it I haven't gotten to play alot of the other games other then a little bit of Eyes over Heaven with my friend this video makes me excited to try All Star Battle and play more Eyes over Heaven.

[@tornadoandy123]

10:50 Oh, that explains why we got the Bad Leg finale again...