A Bodybuilder Navigating ME/CFS Recovery - Joel’s Story

In this video Joel openly and honestly shares what it’s been like becoming unwell with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS) at `such a young age, what it’s been like going from being a bodybuilder to not being able to exercise, the things that have helped him recover so far, and how he keeps himself motivated, hopeful, and continually working recovery
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Meet Joel
01:19 Life before ME/CFS
04:38 Joel’s illness onset, ME/CFS diagnosis, symptoms, & problematic treatment recommendations
09:57 From bodybuilder to chronically unwell - Joel’s family and friends’ reactions
11:36 Why Joel’s not giving up
13:50 How Joel has improved his condition
16:52 Finding structure, routine, meaning, and accomplishment in recovery
21:38 The challenges and benefits of becoming unwell so young
23:15 The daily things Joel makes sure to do for his recovery
28:27 How this all has changed Joel and his feelings about his future
29:51 What’s available in England for people facing ME/CFS
31:58 New ME/CFS research and treatment options
39:11 How to contact Joel
…
NOTE: This description may contain affiliate links to products I enjoy using myself. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases. Should you choose to use these links, this channel may earn affiliate commissions at no additional cost to you. I appreciate your support!
REMINDER: This is for information purposes only and nothing I share should be considered medical advice. Please make your own assessment, do your own further research, and consult your trusted healthcare professionals before deciding if anything I talk about here might be right for you.
#chronicfatiguesyndrome #cfs #chronicfatigue

[@RaelanAgle]

TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Meet Joel 01:19 Life before ME/CFS 04:38 Joel’s illness onset, ME/CFS diagnosis, symptoms, & problematic treatment recommendations 09:57 From body builder to chronically unwell - Joel’s family and friends’ reactions 11:36 Why Joel’s not giving up 13:50 How Joel has improved his condition 16:52 Finding structure, routine, meaning, and accomplishment in recovery 21:38 The challenges and benefits of becoming unwell so young 23:15 The daily things Joel makes sure to do for his recovery 28:27 How this all has changed Joel and his feelings about his future 29:51 What’s available in England for people facing ME/CFS 31:58 New ME/CFS research and treatment options 39:11 How to contact Joel

[@joelgunner634]

Thank you so much for having me on Raelan, I had a wonderful time meeting you and Blue🐶 Brain fog got the better of me in this conversation and I believe I skimmed over plenty of important stuff, my bad - sorry! I would love to answer any questions you guys might have, so please comment here or message me :) thanks for taking an interest in my story!

[@danielleroberts9772]

Laughed so hard at this can totally relate thanks joel

[@joelgunner634]

@@danielleroberts9772 🤣🤣 honesty is the best policy!!

[@demolaj1]

did you ever have any vaccines in past prior to getting ill ?

[@joelgunner634]

@@demolaj1 Yes! Tetanus, MMR etc.

[@101noz101]

Hey Joel, in a similar situation to yourself. 31 year old guy would always be the first of my friends to summit every mountain or complete the hike and gymmed 5 times a week. Been with this for around 10 months now I would say I'm at 60% of where I was before. Something that really helped me was getting to a Chinese naturopath who I'm working with to restore my mitochondria. It seems traditional Western medicine doesn't have many answers on CFS or other similar ailments. Send me a message if you want to get in touch and we can hold each other accountable. Nick

[@seffie4363]

Joel - recovery is absolutely possible! I have recovered twice for 10 years both times but now in 3rd bout and realise that lack of self care, negative outlook/perception and chronic anxiety/stress are the root cause. Once you’re recovered just make sure you live in a way that won’t trigger a relapse x brain training has always helped me x all the best to you 👍

[@joelgunner634]

Hi Sarah, thank you for your advice regarding the brain training! I’ll be sure to heed your post-recovery wisdom when I’m there😊

[@EndersWorlds]

Thank you for sharing this in the comments, this is so positive and hopeful to hear, that you've not just recovered once, but twice, and can see how it happens and why you relapased. I am taking note of this for the future.

[@seffie4363]

@@EndersWorlds thanks! I can only speak for me of course but I believe my CFS is stress/anxiety related so the theory of CFS being caused by ANS dysregulation resonates with me. I recovered from the 2nd bout of CFS with Reverse Therapy and Lightning Process but the main thing I did was massively reduce my anxiety and how i perceived stressful situations. Unfortunately life happens and the past 5 years have been difficult for my family and I should have looked after myself and my needs better but I now know that I can’t fall back into the old patterns if I want to be CFS free. This time I’m using ANS Rewire among other things and it is definitely helping. You do have to work hard for recovery but its so worth it and you learn so much along the way. All the best for your healing too xx

[@EndersWorlds]

@@seffie4363 thank you sarahf 😊🙏💚 mine is stress triggered too so I'm working on it all. Going to start ANS rewired in jan/ February, saving for it now. Good luck and kind thoughts to you too. X

[@deion312]

I was literally just thinking about how people who develop CFS are chronic exercisers. Exercise is very healthy, but, there is such a thing as over-exercising. Over training and over exercising can be just as stressful to your body as overworking or sleep deprivation. As I am healing, I am learning to how be kind to myself. I am now very close to being normal and healthy again, and now I am learning to exercise because I want to rather than doing it because I feel I need to prove myself to feel worthy.

[@joelgunner634]

Totally agree! I can definitely attest to the fact that I had abused exercise as a means of an outlet, certainly a reality and a possible thing to do! Good to hear you are finding a balance🤘🏼

[@HayleyMarieAshleyPrincess]

@@joelgunner634 I have cfs have had it for 4 years after my second baby. I am from the UK! I was severe last year and have made huge steps! I have done rewiring my brain and only extending my envelope every 4 days if that's possible. In other days I do things around the house x

[@joelgunner634]

@@HayleyMarieAshleyPrincess hey Hayley! Really happy to hear you’ve improved, what program did you use?

[@ljon008]

Agree with you 100% that’s how I got ill from over exercising.

[@KWilliams22]

I wasn't doing any exercise when I got really sick...I was working too much and too stressed out...i think a big link is mistreating your body in some way ( including stress) 😩

[@Happydealhappyday]

One time when I fainted, I was sent to the psych ward thinking I OD'd on meds, when I just fainted from POTS and no one knew.. I saw 16 doctors, was diagnosed with POTS from a physical therapist, had a traditional therapist that told me it was my fault I couldn't control my anxiety, and had a primary care physician who told me to go on birth control to stop the anxiety and the long covid will go away eventually. I changed PCP's, and she told me if I went on birth control, it would have put me at risk for stroke since I had a history of migraine with aura. I tried EVERYTHING to get better. I felt so guilty as a mom and a wife that I sat on the couch and my husband became a single parent. The brain fog was so severe that I couldn't look at a to-do list when that's how I lived prior to getting sick. I would go running 3 times a week to stay in shape and help control anxiety. Becoming trapped in my own body was my worst nightmare. I would have never have thought an upper cirvical chiropractor would be the one to help me the most!

[@angiegarden8196]

Joel you are an amazing young man & I love how you're approaching your recovery. Grounding, meditating, healthy food & the right mindset is important. Sending hugs to you & your amazing girlfriend. x

[@joelgunner634]

Thank you Angie!! Very kind of you. Hope all’s well for you😊

[@packwilliam290]

Thank for both you so much ..I'm not a body builder but I'm a trainer and Its been one and half years now that I can't do any exercise because of that chronic illness ..thank for all your motivation videos I wish myself and everyone get a fully recover soon 🙏🙏🙏

[@joelgunner634]

Good luck!!

[@RaelanAgle]

I hope you can put this behind you soon 💛

[@tonywallace7452]

Hi, just came across your channel... I've had a severe relapse since beginning of 2017. Been a horror story but coming to grips with it. Had been a Police Officer for eighteen years. Was medically retired, marriage failed, lost family home, however, started to improve this year with help. Listening to Joel, it's so similar with symptoms. I think you have to reach a higher mental discipline to understand "mind over matter" just does not apply. I live in Perth, Western Australia and medical understanding is lagging behind. I was actually diagnosed by a UK trained GP. Good on you and Joel for the segment. No way I could have a conversation at that pace at the moment, quite a fall from being a Police Prosecutor addressing the Court and making arguments, advocating on behalf of the community.

[@joelgunner634]

Best of luck going forward, Tony. On the whole, things do get better somehow. Despite how often people say they don’t, and how at the darkest of times it seems impossible. In the year and a half since this interview happened, I’ve re-entered full-time work as well as the gym. Two things I previously thought could only happen in an alternate universe.

[@demolaj1]

Problem is especially my age group ( growing up in 80s as children ) we are engraved in the high speed , high powered , high profile , life ! .. we grew up watching Rocky train , rambo fight , Gordon Geko make millions , Karate Kid getting the Girl winning the tornament, " your the best around " .. Tony Montana push it to the Limit , Jean Clead vand dam train on broken glass being stretched by ropes to avenge his brother !! and many other inspirations in Pop , music and culture grown during that time period ..... it has backfired i believe ...and many of us cannot let it go no matter what ... to us theres no point of life if we can not "push it to the Limit " !

[@RaelanAgle]

So very true, Jay!!

[@movewithdonna]

Wow. Joel's story is same as mine, body building lifestyle has alot to a answer for! Also the huge change in identify. I'm in Portsmouth, so only 45 minutes away, good to hear about experiences so close to home. Diagnosed with Glandular fever 2017, ME/CFS in 2019. After a huge rollercoaster journey with recovery you'll get there, 2021 and I'd say 90/95% recovered (had a dip with C recovery) But rest & pacing is still power 💪☺️ (I find emotional stress is my main trigger)

[@joelgunner634]

Donna! Your story sounds very similar to my own, I’m so glad to hear you’re nearly back to full health! That’s amazing! Are you back training now, or has life changed too much to return to its previous shades? Do you mind me asking how you made your improvements?😊

[@movewithdonna]

@@joelgunner634 training now is very different, took me a few years to let go of my old 'lifting' ego! I now find joy in walking in nature, yoga/pilates to help repair old lifting injuries... And home Workouts that are using Kettlebells/dumbbells, no HiiT as I found my body struggled to recover after. I started 15-20 min home strength (body weight work) then gradually increased to 25/30 mins. All trial and error with recovery. Also eating more food and ditching old rules from body building diets helped with energy. I did gain some fat and lost muscle over the years, hard on the mind but for living life recovered it was worth it... Just purchased a 16kg Kettlebell and 10kg weights, still minimum HiiT but muscle will come back. Just didn't rush the process... And napped alot !

[@joelgunner634]

@@movewithdonna Glad to hear you’ve adopted a more holistic approach to staying in shape with an emphasis on FEELING good rather than looking the best way possible, a state which is often deceiving. Good luck going forward!

[@basketballfan5763]

Hi Raelyn.... little Blue is an absolute fluffball ray of sunshine!!!

[@HealwithLiz]

Such a powerful interview -- Joel is so wise beyond his years! Loved the part about finding structure and meaning. I love the metaphor "walk to things you can do don't run to things you can't." Can't wait for his book! Such a great interview Raelan!

[@joelgunner634]

Liz! I’ll be sure to hurry up the book process for you… and I’ll mention that metaphor!!😎 Thanks for the kind words too! Love the work you do for your channel too.

[@basketballfan5763]

I'm glad you didn't get rid of the dogs from your videos after someone made a couple of snotty comments because dogs are healing and I absolutely adore the dogs if they are ever in your videos

[@KWilliams22]

Such a wonderful young man...I can't wait to see your full recovery story! I don't think it's far away ❤

[@joelgunner634]

Thank you so much Keren, I am excited for the day too!😎

[@iamthefiremanjj]

When you dig yourself into a hole , build a ladder

[@dfblake7]

Joel...I have only got halfway through your story so far, but I want to say...you must not give up hope; you owe it to yourself to try whatever comes in your path that potentially might help. Also don't lose your present due to fear of those possible decades of illness ahead. Reset your mind daily ...you clearly have great discipline to train as a bodybuilder, so use that skill to navigate this challenge. You can do it! I speak as someone who got ME in my early 40's and still battle with it after 2 decades. You might think I am not in any place to give advice, but in my experience, the people to listen to are those who have learnt by their own experience/ mistakes. I did not accept the diagnosis...I didn't have the awareness to stop pushing through the fatigue etc. There is a lot more awareness and help out there now, ( especially Raelan's channel) and I wish you every success for a measured and happy recovery. Keep going!

[@joelgunner634]

Dorothy! I think you have epitomised exactly what this community of ours is all about; encouraging each other to not give up, to try different routes and retain hope, but to be sensible and stay grounded in the here and now! Thank you!😊

[@jensmith7776]

Great to hear your story Joel, wishing you the best on the journey 💪🏻

[@joelgunner634]

Thank you Jen! Likewise!

[@loveyfife3622]

Such a beautiful interview ❤ Joel is so refreshing!

[@mirandaandrea8215]

What a lovely Super articulate guy! ❤ totally agree regarding NHS!!!

[@irenepapaspyros4847]

Thank you for sharing your story! Keep smiling 😍

[@joelgunner634]

I will Irene! And you!

[@grahamkeil2253]

Thanks again Raelan. You have abundant skills of allowing people to bring their best to any situation. Thanks again

[@RaelanAgle]

Thank you, Graham! That is so nice to hear and so kind of you to say 💓

[@ThomasAT86]

Loved the interview! Always a pleasure listening to someone who can express themselves in a way like that. Also, cool to see a bodybuilder here. Always loved the gym!! Love and strength, Thomas

[@joelgunner634]

Thanks Thomas! Hope you’re doing well brother!

[@sarahmaurice3930]

Thanks for another video Raelan, just about to give it a listen :)

[@RaelanAgle]

Hope you enjoy it, Sarah! 💓

[@ethereal_shawty]

Joel has obviously blossomed through this and I can’t wait to see where he goes in life!!! Thank you both for another amazing interview💛💛

[@joelgunner634]

I’ve tried to make the most of this thing, that’s for sure! It doesn’t feel day to day like blossoming, quite the opposite, but I’m happy with who I have become as a result ☺️ thanks Adelynn!

[@tanvilaxmicant]

This is such an inspiring interview. Honestly an honour to hear about you experience. Good on you for powering through everything life has thrown at you. Sending lots of love and all the blessings, because you deserve it all!

[@joelgunner634]

Tanvi, thank you☺️😊

[@rachelc4865]

This guys is an artist. He emanates it. Such a brilliant soul. I can relate to being a creative and philosophical type of personality with this illness. It’s a unique path of healing for us. Would love to chat with you sometime. Also a big JP fan!

[@Bitachon]

Great story. Keep up the good work!

[@joelgunner634]

Thanks to Raelan for this one!

[@charlyanne9925]

Really enjoyed watching this and wish Joel continued success for his future. Thanks for a great channel Raelan 😊

[@joelgunner634]

Thank you so much Charly!🤘🏼

[@RaelanAgle]

So glad you find it helpful, Charly!

[@j.b.244]

Fantastic interview! Raelan, you are doing a great job in giving us hope by finding all these great people who tell their recovery stories. 🙏🙏💜

[@RaelanAgle]

So glad to hear it!

[@apple369]

I love the image of you getting up close to trees and giving them a sniff. In Japanese cities, they have these little pocket forests - like a foot wide and a few inches deep - that are made for putting your face into for some forest bathing. Isn't that cool? There's a teeny-tiny bamboo grove on my block and on windy days I like to stand in it and listen to the wind blow thru it. Nature is so important and I'm glad I live in Vancouver, BC because it's a very green city. Thanks for another fantastic video!

[@RaelanAgle]

That's amazing!!! You always share the coolest things - your messages are like little gifts. Thank you! 💝

[@apple369]

@@RaelanAgle Thank you! What a very heartwarming reply.

[@djbb7079]

Incredibly articulate chap!.. Hugely relatable...thank you so much for posting this Raelan, I am curious if there is something in the theory of "over achievers" getting fatigue related conditions.. Immune disregulation? Stuck in sympathetic mode? Cns stress through years of working out? More chance of getting a chronic infection?

[@joelgunner634]

Thanks! I appreciate it! I’m positive that the over-achiever mindset weakens the physical body and makes us vulnerable - it’s certainly involved in the trigger/onset for many✌🏼

[@napoleonbuska]

This is super helpful. Pretty much similar what ive been going through the past two years but i just didnt have a word what this excactly is, always thought its just regular burnout or overtraining etc.. So no diagnose but now i atleast know. and need to take this thing more serioisly and do the right things for this to get better. Big up for your channel.

[@dorishangel3661]

Great video and I'm looking forward to Joels book. You are two great people that make my life a bit lighter 😀

[@joelgunner634]

Likewise Doris!

[@RaelanAgle]

So glad, Doris!

[@aaronwray9139]

Love the message of hope! Really inspirational to see someone giving of their best and doing so many wonderful things with such a difficult condition. Excellent interview and so many good ideas for anyone who’s struggling at times. Going to give grounding and tree sniffing a try and can’t wait for Joel’s book to come out!

[@RaelanAgle]

Thank you so much, Aaron! 💓💓💓

[@joelgunner634]

You’re the man bro!🤪

[@jeff92109]

Fantastic interview. Joel, you feel fatigued, but you are full of amazing energy as a human spirit! Tell me how to find out more about the German cataract stoke cfs treatment you mentioned.

[@joelgunner634]

Hey Jeff, thank you! I remember now that it was now cataracts but glaucoma, I can’t seem to find the study as of yet though. Will keep looking :) take care!

[@DannySmith-lt9tz]

My story is similar to Joel's. I was a keen boxer, loved training, weight lifting and could exercise intensely for hours. I got galandular fever, fatigue set in and I never recovered. The first year was the worst but slowly it did get better over time. Don't know if anyone else here has tried Low Dose Naltrexone but that recent addition has helped make a big improvement to me. Joel if you see this - I live not far from Guildford, had CFS for over 5 years. Back to weightlifting, hiking mountains and working full time. The needle can move way up from 35% over time. Happy to share any info with you of things that have helped me

[@joelgunner634]

What’s up Danny, really glad I did see this message. Thanks for the positivity brother👊🏻 can’t imagine how stoked you are to be back training. Have heard and looked into LDN, still a potential route for me yet. How did it help cor you? Would love to hear more about you did it my man!

[@DannySmith-lt9tz]

@@joelgunner634 yeah it was a big leap forward being able to train. I just do lower rep strength training now because it seems to be more sustainable than anything high rep or cardio as they can trigger the fatigue. LDN for me so far has been the best thing I've ever tried for CFS to be honest, been taking it less than 3 months but noticed improvement quite rapidly. I take a few other things like amino acids, resveratrol, Vit D etc that may help a little bit too.

[@andylopez6411]

What a powerful statement the title is 🙏🏼

[@joelgunner634]

Raelan killed this one🤘🏼

[@RaelanAgle]

This was all you, Joel ❤️

[@DD-wv3pf]

🤍 Absolutely lovely! The clarity he has on things is gold! It's a must takeaway! Beautiful attitude! Find what works for you, don't bother about what doesn't work, or what works for other people but doesn't work for you. Keep trying different things. Solutions ARE there. Which is why this channel is such a blessing, because it is such a lovely repository! Thank you Joel 🙏😇 Jordan Peterson is a blessing. But it could take a while before you find what you need, because he has spoken about tons of stuff. So, although it's a great idea to explore Jordan Peterson, it should be done slowly, with patience, else it could get frustrating. Find what you need and take it, don't bother too much about the rest. Thank you Raelan. 🙏🤍😇

[@joelgunner634]

No, thank you! Glad to hear I made some sense despite the brain fog!🤣 solutions even if partial are certainly there or are beginning to come to fruition, I believe that whole heartedly😊 Agreed regarding JP - lots of content, if anyone is reading I would suggest those little motivational clips first. KZbin algorithm does a good job from there on in!

[@DD-wv3pf]

@@joelgunner634 😊🤍🙏🤘

[@shinanneshisana3684]

Thank you Raelan and Joel ❤️. Blessings to your recovery Joel. And great to meet you Blue🐶

[@joelgunner634]

Hey Shinanne! Yes, Blue stole the show I must say 😉😂

[@shinanneshisana3684]

@@joelgunner634 Thank you once again for sharing your story 🍭

[@joelgunner634]

@@shinanneshisana3684 my pleasure!!

[@Bitachon]

I think the flip side is im sure many people worry constantly that things will happen to them even though it may be very rare.

[@iamthefiremanjj]

Did you ever do the follow up interview ! I would love to read the book if it’s available

[@grahamkeil2253]

Thanks

[@RaelanAgle]

Thank you so much, Graham 💝

[@somethingsmatter]

What a powerful interview. Thank you for Interviewing someone in the thick of it. It’s definitely great to hear from someone who is fighting so hard like Joel. He is such a positive person and so lovely to listen to. Many great tips!

[@joelgunner634]

I really appreciate this, thank you! It was a real pleasure to be able to talk from the perspective of someone peri-illness rather than post!

[@RaelanAgle]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@__OL__]

You're an old soul, Joel. Wishing you well, brother. Agree with person below who said to look into brain retraining (e.g. DNRS, Gupta). Also, I tried to google the studies you mentioned @33:40 about cataract drugs helping with ME/CFS but came up empty. If anyone has a link, would appreciate it. (I don't believe there is such a thing as a drug for cataracts, so am guessing it's a drug for some other eye condition, which is maybe why google search came up empty.)

[@__OL__]

Also recommend looking into low dose naltrexone. Just start at a VERY low dose if you try it (like 0.05mg or, at most, 0.1mg). Many groups on FB for more info, including one specifically for using LDN for ME/CFS.

[@mirandaandrea8215]

Joel have your worked on nervous system, calming it down, brain retraining stuff?

[@Happydealhappyday]

Type A personality who left a cult. Followed by stress of covid. Got covid twice and long haul twice. The vaccine healed me the first time, and made me worse the second time. I've been sick for a combination of 19 months. I'm starting to feel relief by seeing a upper cervical chiropractor - they found that two of my vertebrae had scar tissue that fused two almost together (probably from a car accident from when I was a teenager.) They told me that old injury could have made me more suseptible to long covid, POTS, cfs since my nervous system was stressed from the injury, on top of all of the emotional stress of leaving a cult and living through a pandemic.

[@dorishangel3661]

Joel, forget about the f.. statictics - you will do it!!!!!!!

[@joelgunner634]

Doris!! Thank you, I love your enthusiasm! I believe so too!

[@dorishangel3661]

@@joelgunner634 I have CFS myself - for over three years now and I can't work etc. - and I also know about these statistics and what doctors told me was either not helpfull or devastating. But I decided that I will succeed in getting over this. I am absolutely sure about this. Even though it's hard to stay positive like that sometimes. And I'm sure you'll succeed as well. I wish you ALL the best for that.

[@joelgunner634]

@@dorishangel3661 really sorry to hear this, happy to know that you have bypassed those figures though. I can’t see the use in believing them even partially - there has to be more to life than numbers😇

[@dorishangel3661]

@@joelgunner634 Very logically I'm sure, that all people that have fuly or almost recovered don't show up in the statistics. I studied statistics and I know you can't always believe in them ;-)

[@joelgunner634]

@@dorishangel3661 take all with a pinch of salt, right?

[@sarahmaurice3930]

Joel, did you see the NICE guidelines info now? Such a relief that GET taken off it!

[@joelgunner634]

I just saw that the other day!! Fantastic news! 🤪

[@sarahmaurice3930]

@@joelgunner634 It is! I was pushed into a gp appt in 2016 in a wheelchair barely about to sit upright due to cfs and the gp told me to exercise! Safe to say I refused to see them again and ignored him!😅

[@joelgunner634]

@@sarahmaurice3930 That’s absolutely terrible Sarah I’m really sorry. Such a flippant and careless thing to say to someone suffering so much. Things are changing now, though!

[@iamthefiremanjj]

When you dig yourself into a hole , build a ladder