A Cautionary Tale for AGPs in Hetero Relationships

[@thoughtistic5807]

I hope we reach a point in society where people don't feel pressured to either transition or to repress and can just live somewhere in the middle.

[@ChadZaugg]

Thank you again for putting these out there. As a 50yo autogynephile in a 20+ year married heterosexual relationship I think that Ray is absolutely right about not transitioning, living alone or compromising, and about not getting to have your cake and eat it too. Having AGP is going to be hard, lonely and frustrating. For most of your life. In nearly all of your relationships. Pretty much no one is going to understand you or your AGP no matter how hard they try or how well meaning they are. And that’s okay. And you can learn to live with it. You can learn to live happily in that most of the time. But nothing is going to cure your AGP. Nothing is going to fix the disconnect, your AGP. You are going to have to manage it, deal with it, and accept that there’s no fix. No perfect solution. No ideal relationship. You will have to compromise your whole life and never be 100% satisfied with your AGP 100% of the time. Sorry. It will be hard. But you can find joy in relationships. It’s just going to be hard and you’ll have to compromise to maintain any healthy relationships. But that’s life. Cis heterosexual people have to compromise to maintain healthy relationships. Thanks again Ray. Sorry this old man AGP had to ramble.

[@RayAlexWilliams]

I appreciate you sharing your experiences!

[@fashionforwardfellow]

I am a year older and married longer but all the statements you made still make me sad. It really is a struggle and no one understands. Not even ourselves it seems. I still haven't found a great way to cope.

[@ChadZaugg]

I think that a meeting of like minds is the best. Men need male friends. Those relationships are more important than society understands. I think that we need AGP friends. And I don’t know how to say this without it sounding bad… but, AGP men need to have those male AGP relationships in spaces that are more like an AA meeting and less like a bar. I don’t think that our AGP tendencies are should be treated like an addiction. But I think that it’s important for us to be able to talk to each other kinda like they are. In safe anonymous judgment free settings. Not to meet up, dress up, and hook up. It’s my assumption that most if not all of our Autogynephilia has its roots in: narcissism, autism, or childhood abuse/neglect. But I don’t think that we should or can be cured of it. But I don’t think that we are emotionally deformed perverts that require fixing. I also think that because the bulk of us are narcissistic and/or autistic we’re emotionally colorblind. We have to acknowledge that our view of ourselves and others, of relationships and attraction is fundamentally different. Maybe even less than or broken. And because of that we need to understand that we will always have to compensate for that lack. Internally. Emotionally. Intellectually. And there’s nothing wrong with that. Just like you’d never expect an actually colorblind person to feel a guilt or feel less than. Even though they are actually seeing less. Sorry again for rambling. But I think the main way that we will find peace and solace is by accepting ourselves as we are, and in community with each other.

[@anewagora]

I think the primary problem is behavioral; the woman in the relationship needs attention and appreciation, not to watch the man become fixated on his own dramatic performance as the star of the show. I question if it would be less addictive and healthier if the feminity and masculinity in cross dressing men was more integrated (such as in shadow work via Carl Jung) and not carried away into ego and dramatism. I think this is mostly a problem because women are encouraged to be dramatic, materialistic, vain, egoic, and obsessed in the pursuit of hyperfemiminity. As a detrans woman I never wear makeup. No interest in it. Conversely I do yoga and am in love with the process of becoming highly advanced, my body being healthy and highly capable. I also love being nurturing to my boyfriend, my cats and look forward to caring for my kids. These expressions of femininity are focused on community and health. Focused on others in tandem with oneself. If our culture moved this direction away from visual obsession, maybe cross dressing men would also find more peace and genuine compatibility in partners.

[@yindyarxvb8280]

Really heart wrenching. It’s interesting to me what dopamine drenching activities are considered normal. It’s almost like poly relationship gone wrong. Where two of the three partners decide they just like each other more than the odd one out. As men I think their is a way to balance our masculinity and our femininity without compromising our relationships. It’s a delicate balance for sure. I hope this individual finds this balance and sheds his traditional view on gender norms. Ie men don’t have to be hairy stoic freaks. You can be bald eyebrows down with long hair and flowy clothing and still make your women feel feminine.

[@GenX_NotBoomer-rl3ze]

Thank you for putting these videos out; it helps to get an AGP/s perspective, sometimes, even when it is sometimes "too much" for me. I want to point out, even though it will upset some people, that the reason many people develop "the ick," is because autogynophelia does not serve an evolutionary purpose in our species. Humans are "primed," to detect the physical features, first, and then social features of a person who will be a successful mate.

[@anima_nonymous]

Aside from AGP/trans/femme, it can be off-putting to date someone who shifts aesthetic mid dating, be it femininity or goth or whatever. Might help to integrate androgynous fashion from the start so you're only attracting partners who are already into it.

[@RayAlexWilliams]

Good advice

[@rosetintedrage1246]

I enjoy your perspective because it parallels heavily with my experience having husband who likes to fantasize about being cuckolded, which can be destructive to a relationship for obvious reasons. Repression leads to depression, but theres a need to protect ourselves from indulging too heavily leading to jealousy and resentment

[@MissKae_85]

Look I don’t want any smoke here. But as a bisexual person, my attraction is pretty clear. Natal men or natal women. I’m not into any grey areas. I think it’s wrong to assume that ALL people who are bi would be attracted to trans, agp or cross dressing people.

[@RayAlexWilliams]

Thank you for sharing!

[@LarkSist]

Was this assumption made in the vid? I must have missed it. No snark, I was listening with one ear.

[@DivaClariceWilliams]

Any love relationship is about trying to find and negotiate a middle ground. As pointed out the op found a woman who was comfortable in her femininity to enjoy the company and love with her AGP man. It sounds like he kept the growing desires back from her and she saw changes she couldn't deal with . So no one was communicating. If he had kept her in the loop he could have saved his marriage and saved the heartache. It's important to be transparent.

[@RayAlexWilliams]

Good points

[@HellCatt0770]

Women often try to be supportive- they’re told that’s what they’re supposed to do. In truth this would be a turn-off for nearly all women - they’re told that’s just haven’t been faced with it. Even Bi women will probably feel this way.

[@quackersplatfarm]

I'm a fairly new subscriber and appreciate your videos very much! If you don't already have one, I'd enjoy a video on possible childhood experiences/situations that may initially trigger agp. Or theories about why some young male children develop this as opposed to others who don't. Also, is there any link to other mental "conditions" like ocd?

[@aliceandroph1L3]

Thanks for this! If you’re aap or agp, I think you really really need to think long and hard before getting into a relationship. How much do you actually want an external relationship? Do not get into one just to hurt the other person cos you’re more focused on yourself. (I’m saying this to myself as well cos I’m aap). So yeah. Just be fucking self aware, it’s not that hard.

[@nataliacysne9585]

as you are doing, I also want to educate people

[@zainakhatar5116]

What are your thoughts on telling AGP individuals that they can live their fantasy (especially nowadays with mass acceptance) but will need to accept that it will cause a hindrance to their dating life? Isn't it better to live authentically and freely than being in a relationship and not being true to yourself? Being single seems like a better option tbh! Thoughts?

[@RayAlexWilliams]

I think most normal, healthy people crave loving relationships. It's hardwired. We give that up at great personal cost. Romantic loneliness is not pleasant no matter how "authentically" you live single.

[@searchingstuff]

Honestly a sad story. Thanks for sharing.

[@pattayaesl7128]

Happened to me. Just for being kind, sweet, attentive, respectful, considerate. I was never AGP. But just not presenting goofy cartoon-like Rambo-style "masculine" stereotypes, caused my GF to bolt for some misogynist goofball who treated her like garbage. I mean, she preferred that. She preferred to get bad treatment than to accommodate a non AGP emotionally available and sensitive guy. However, women will never tell you this. They will play along and create a facade until they get a chance to monkeybranch.

[@lauraigla6319]

Im not that redditors wife, but i very well could be. My husband was open about crossdressing when we started dating, and i was supportive and open minded. But he assured me it was only a hobby. Well, now 10 years later its his full time obsession. Please agps, dont start a relationship and bait and switch your partner. Find a partner who is enthusiastic about your agp, not someone who can just tolerate it. Because once you take it full time... we cant bear anymore. And dont baby trap us, kthx!

[@RayAlexWilliams]

Thank you for sharing 🙏

[@fashionforwardfellow]

This is depressing. I wonder why we can't just live and yet we have all these struggles and trauma. I think people should be authentic because i wasn't and still am not all the time. I do think that there are parts about the fetishistic outlets that are clearly wrong and should not be indulged. It is easy for most to reason that someone like a pedophile (extreme example) should not indulge their fantasies but some in this community think it is ok to have extramarital relationships, especially with other men, and it is not. That is am awesome thumbnail Ray! Where did you get it? A picture is truly worth a thousand words here my friend.

[@RayAlexWilliams]

Thumbnail is AI 😅

[@fashionforwardfellow]

@RayAlexWilliams on my goodness I so hate AI! Lol

[@chilo8187]

Thanks for the video Ray. It is sad. I hope he will find his way. Also wondering have I left comments that were inappropriate or unwelcome here, it seems I’m shadow banned. If so, I apologize

[@RayAlexWilliams]

KZbin has a tendency to censor comments for reasons inexplicable to me

[@chilo8187]

@ Strange!

[@Peaceful_Days]

What if I find a woman who is more masculine and dominant?

[@RayAlexWilliams]

Then you found a rare person! Are you attracted to masculine women? Most AGPs in my experience are attracted to very femme women

[@Peaceful_Days]

@RayAlexWilliams I've found a tomboyish woman who is into pegging. But she also wants regular sex, which I struggle with. I'm more of a sub and bottom, and I'm attracted to dominant women. I have a bit of AGP and a cross dressing fetish, but it's weaker than my allo attraction.

[@Peaceful_Days]

I'm a sub and bottom, and I'm attracted to masculine and dominant women. I have a bit of AGP, but my allo attraction is stronger than my AGP. Also my AGP is more forgiving in the sense that I'm attracted to myself as a twink too. I don't need to be an actual woman in my fantasy.​ And I'm happy with my body. @@RayAlexWilliams

[@Peaceful_Days]

​​Yes, I'm actually attracted to dominant and masculine women. Also my AGP is not so strict. It doesn't require me to be a woman. I'm attracted to myself as a twink too. I just want to be the bottom in bed. So I'm happy with my body.​@@RayAlexWilliams

[@Peaceful_Days]

@RayAlexWilliams Yes, I am attracted to masculine women. Also my auto attraction is not so rigid. I'm attracted to myself as I feminine man. I don't feel the need to transition.

[@AS74239]

Do you have a hope that AGP is "curable"? It seems so difficulty, as you pathological.

[@EastWindCommunity1973]

I don't get it, CDing all the time and being femme, but then doubling down on being masc to find another woman?? Why not just be with a man or why the necessity to do that again to a woman for the sake of having a "normal" life?? Seems cruel to yourself and the women. Is it social pressure? Why the drive to have a "normal" family and kids when clearly you are way far away from the "norm"?

[@RayAlexWilliams]

It’s well known that AGP intensity waxes and wanes, particularly in response to life circumstances

[@danieltenebrion9413]

I think there is a pretty big difference between liking cross-dressing or feminine things, and then attributing that to having Gender Dysphoria and wanting to transition. Please look into getting therapy to see if you have Gender Dysphoria before attempting any life-changing alterations that you would regret.

[@juliocesarfabianosaboia7330]

AGPs should just transition ASAP and forget about getting with heteronormative women.

[@RayAlexWilliams]

Transition brings its own problems

[@juliocesarfabianosaboia7330]

@@RayAlexWilliams True, but it's better than setting oneself up for disaster, going after heteronormative women will always end in disaster, it's just better for AGPs to transition if possible, because the feminization fantasies are not going away ever.

[@unreadlibrarian]

Literally eugenic opinion. No, people should not sterilise as first response.