A Freudian/Jungian Dialogue Re: "C.G. Jung: Face-to-Face with Christianity"

[@jamiequigley5906]

The ego responding to the call of God, dissolving into the Self. Beautiful

[@doncarveth]

Yes. Amen.

[@carlt570]

Wonderful - Thank you .

[@AdrianHackman]

There is something to Freuds Idea of narcissistic neurosis but Freud always held doubts about the accessibility of psychotic patients to psychoanalytic treatment. In my own experience with psychosis and I at one point started working with active imagination. I very much feared that I would become psychotic again but I saw it turn around. There needs to be integration between the concious and the unconcious for the process to actually work. This is where I think that Freud also falls short.

[@AdrianHackman]

Great talk 🙏

[@doncarveth]

Freudian psychoanalysis has been weak on psychosis

[@AdrianHackman]

@@doncarveth Alright yes. I still really think that there is something to the Oedipal theme over all; the importance Jung also places upon it. I was never a religious person yet I have dealt with visions and hearing voices as a child. The psychotic delusions (when they erupted) where strongly religious. I saw an angle light up the night sky etc. I have met and heard about others who see Satan, think that they are Jesus Christ and so on. I wish psychoanalysis would be more accepted where I live here in Sweden. There should be a reformation. In the future I hope to work with it as a journalist.

[@zakatista5246]

I wonder whether, to be human, Jesus must have suffered without knowing that he was God, or even that there was a God. Surely only that would make him human. That is why Jung’s statement sounds hubristic - although I hear him as saying that he has had personal experience of “the unconscious.” The most astonishing response to gnostic heresy I have seen is the Cathedral of Albi in France (built after the Church defeated the Albergensians).

[@doncarveth]

Jung can sometimes sound like a Cathar

[@doncarveth]

Lusensky suggests that when Jung says he knows he might mean he feels it to be true. Feeling is a kind of knowing I think.

[@doncarveth]

I say, I don’t “believe“ in God, but I feel that He exists and loves me

[@zakatista5246]

I recommend a short book by the jungian analyst Craig Stephenson ‘Anteros: A Forgotten Myth’.

[@michaelkulyk]

Thanks for this great discussion. With regard to the problem of evil and the all good God my associations are as such; firstly evil isn't what's bad. An animal can turn bad and do awful things but in the end it's not evil, evil requires freedom and choice and according to the Christian tradition this is something that God allows humans. At least part of God's plan, according to this view, is that human beings develop their potential for freedom. There can't be sin (choosing to gain satisfaction at the expense of the well being of others or even the self) without freedom. Jung believed that the God image is better represented by a quaternity than a trinity, that evil and the terrible are part of the archetypal God image. However However he doesn't distinguish between the two, humans can be extremely evil and volcanic explosions can be extremely terrible and devastating but they're of a different nature. The trinity, as I suspect Peirce and Lacan would attest to, allows for choice, including the choice to sin; this or that not being a true choice unless there's an 'Other'. So despite the nature of evil which is part of God's creation, and Christians believe God is both immanent and transcendent in creation, overall God is good if not all good-although from an eastern Orthodox perspective God is symbolized as an all seeing eye within a triangle, God being incomparable is unknowable and can never be described .Amen.

[@dan-arebjrngrnvik3513]

Have you attended the divine liturgy in the orthodox church, Don?

[@doncarveth]

No, but I would like to. I love Anglo Catholic services, but I suspect I would like eastern orthodoxy even better.

[@dan-arebjrngrnvik3513]

​@@doncarveth It's beautiful, I don't think I've experienced anything like it before. No meditations, rituals or even psychedelics can come near to the experience. That has been my experience at least.

[@LaoZi2023]

Christianity is great, if you like believing in magic, and false claims, Gods that don't show themselves, ideologies that stem from ignorance of how nature responds to stress and movement of land, air, sun, etc.

[@Linda-mx5cn]

Christainity is true. Jesus is Savoir.