A High Calcium Diet Reduces Oxalate Absorption

[@paulfiedler9128]

A couple of months ago, I started buying organic beets to include in my Meal-1 smoothie because of their nitric oxide content. And, because I'm a little nuts, I also found a good organic beet powder grown in Idaho and started using it with the beets in the smoothie. Also, because of CADT's parsley recommendation, I was using my homegrown parsley in the smoothie. I also grow Chinese celery---which is a powerhouse of nutrients--and started chopping up celery greens for the smoothie. About that time, I started getting pain in my right side abdomen. A similar pain to when I was drinking lots of alcohol, and I thought I may somehow be getting a non-alcoholic fatty liver disease from the many supplements I take, or maybe my new addition of cocoa beans to my coffee grind may be hurting my kidneys. The abdominal got really bad a couple of weeks ago, and I also started getting leg cramps. I called to make a rare doctor's appointment, but my guy was away on vacation. Then, when researching what could be causing my abdomen pain, I ran into an article about oxalates. As it turns out, beets, parsley, celery, and cocoa, are a few of the highest oxalate-content foods on the planet. Ironically, beets and parsley are high in calcium, which I desperately need for osteoporosis. But their oxalate content overrides any negates any nutrient value from the calcium. As it turns out, there are only about 10 leafy greens that have a low oxalate level. Nutrition is incredibly complex. There are not NEARLY enough people watching this and the few other very helpful KZbin channels that deal with optimal nutrition and it's complexities. To make extra dough, I work as a grocery cashier, and I can tell you firsthand that 90% of people eat garbage daily. TV dinners, ice cream, and potato chips must be the top three 'foods' consumed by Americans. When we read these stories about our healthcare system totally breaking down in the next ten to twenty years, it all begins with what America is running through in its digestive system. I can't decide what group is more evil. Big Pharma or Big Food?

[@jpintero6330]

I hope you are all better! I have been eating a lot of almond butter and juicing parsley, etc and I am having a problem with my joints, which is so weird for me. Oxalate arthropathy is a thing too! Who knows.

[@reynolds753]

When I was reading your comment I was thinking, “those are high oxalate foods!” Things like almonds beetroot spinach cocoa… they’re all high in oxalates. Kidney stones are not fun

[@PankajThakur-hq1vw]

​@jpintero6330 I'm curious.. what kind of joint problems? I've been eating a lot healthier (greens, nuts etc) the last few years, but I've also developed some strange symptoms in my wrists and angles. I find a CONSTANT urge to pop/Crack them. It's like a pressure building up. Mostly when I'm not moving about. And they often feel irritated and maybe inflamed. Can you relate or?

[@andrewtaylor9799]

Very informative; thank you. Kefir is a good source of calcium that I use; a single cup has 400 mg of calcium, plus probiotic bacteria.

[@brianwnc8168]

I don't think you have to have high calcium diet but rather just have calcium in the same meal when you consume oxalate containing foods that are very high in oxalates

[@matttee1319]

Thanks. Have a great dayyyyy...

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Ha, catchphrase!

[@zmdeadelius]

Definitely becoming the channel's signature!

[@zakazan8561]

vegetables that are usually high in nitrates are also high in oxalates, which is why whenever I have such vegetables, I pair them either with cheese or milk.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

yep, same!

[@eliaspfeffer]

Do you have a lifestyle video, where you just list what the daily things are, that you are doing? Including what apps you use / your daily protocol? Would love to just copy and paste yours.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Hi @eliaspfeffer, I post daily diet and HRV, RHR data on Patreon Full diet composition is in the tracking biological age checklists...

[@zmdeadelius]

Great video! Thanks for putting it together.

[@bhut1571]

Thanks. Nice to have this "quantised" Both the wife and I have had kidney stones. We now put some plain yogurt on beet-root. However, the wife can't handle the gritty curdling of dairy products on rhubarb. For me, a nice piece of cheddar goes well with rhubarb-strawberry pie. The unanswerable problem however is how much oxalate is in the beets, or spring rhubarb and how much Ca is needed to get it down to a reasonable level.

[@ChessMasterNate]

One potential source of kidney stones is having vitamin C with calcium. If you take 500 or 1,000 mg of vitamin C from a supplement, you want to do that at a different time than you have calcium.

[@davidflorez1196]

Have you considered making a book with your journey and findings?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Yes, 100%! It's not a matter of if, but when...

[@Joe-mp9qf]

great video! do you have your plasma oxalate levels measured? with all the moving pieces, seems like that might explain the net effect of oxalate retention in the body. If I'm understanding your videos, then measuring urinary oxalate output wouldn't be as helpful as the levels in the plasma. in the lab links you provided, however, I couldn't find any plasma based lab tests, just urine. appreciate any perspective you can provide on this. thanks!

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @Joe-mp9qf, not yet on plasma oxalate, but kidney function is youthful, so it's unlikely to be high Plasma would be a better measure-if kidney function is reduced, there might be less urine oxalate, as it wouldn't be excreted. Ultalabs doesn't include oxalate, nor does lef.org, so I'm not sure if plasma oxalate is commercially available.

[@Joe-mp9qf]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 thanks for the response! so does that mean eating excess oxalate over what calcium levels could bind wouldn't necessarily show up as higher oxalate plasma since a healthy kidney would just filter it out? then what's the risk in the dietary oxalate/calcium levels, straining your kidney which would show up as kidney problems later in life? trying to understand the mechanism on cardiac risk...also I was thinking for urine oxalate measurement, seems like higher levels could just mean kidney is working perfectly filtering high dietary oxalate and no dietary changes are needed...just trying to figure out if there's anything to measure that would help with assessing the net effect of significantly higher oxalate consumption and if calcium is working to offset that or not...thanks!

[@friedux2065]

Antibiotics wiped out my oxalate degrading bacteria verified by the biomesight test. I tried adding more calcium but ultimately found cutting out high oxalate foods entirely was necessary. Otherwise I get bad arthritis type symptoms. May try incorporating collard greens.

[@FrankMartinez1980]

Thank you for sharing Dr!

[@user-bn2zj1yn9w]

Nice video! I have an unrelated question, do you have any concerns over the microplastics within canned sardines, or does it not matter? Especially since you're consuming a sizable amount?

[@CharlesOffdensen]

Aren't canned sardines in metal cans? I live in Europe and there are no sardines in plastic cans. Unfortunally there are no boneless skinless sardines that are not also canned in sunflower oil.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

I'm not worried about them in sardines-a far greater microplastic pollution-threat is living in the city, and I'm hoping to fix that issue sooner rather than later.

[@simonmelville5218]

@@CharlesOffdensen The metal the can could well be mixed with a plastic when manufactured.

[@simonmelville5218]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Michael, do you ever do testing for heavy metals? Sorry, I can't recall if I have ever asked you that before. Your channel was recommended by Michael Allen Smith @ Critical MAS blog and he eats sardines as well but has flagged the potential risk of heavy metal contents.

[@davidb9670]

In the von Unruh study, where they looked at the protective effects of dietary calcium, they dosed the patients with only 50 mg of soluble oxalate. However, a single almond spinach smoothie can contain several hundreds of mg of soluble oxalate. Some people on a "superfood" diet can consume well over a 1000 mg of oxalate per day. Will 1200 mg of calcium protect these people? Can we extrapolate the absorption percentages reported in the von Unruh study to such higher levels of oxalate intake?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Great question, @davidb9670.I 'd stay away from spinach-no amount of calcium in the diet can overcome the oxalate dose from that.

[@davidb9670]

@@thomasmuller1850 Yes that was the Bahadoran et al study. The participants were eating diets that had oxalate contents ranging from 130-260 mg/day. The investigators found a critical cutoff for calcium:oxalate of about 7. In other words, if a participant had a calcium to oxalate ratio of less than 7, they were statistically more likely to develop CVD.

[@davidb9670]

@@thomasmuller1850 Yes that was the Bahadoran et al study. The participants were eating diets that had oxalate contents ranging from 130-260 mg/day. The investigators found a critical cutoff for calcium:oxalate of about 7. In other words, if a participant had a calcium to oxalate ratio of less than 7, they were statistically more likely to develop CVD.

[@thomastoadally]

Collared greens are good for keeping your eyes healthy. Especially the macula, preventing macular degeneration.

[@rwh4114]

Really appreciate this video Mike. At what point does calcium consumption become a concern as it pertains to cardiovascular health? Or does that only apply to supplemental calcium?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @rwh4114. I'm not sure-if people have published data for high calcium intakes and health-related outcomes, I'm all ears...

[@rwh4114]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Tried to post a link but keeps disappearing. Search BMJ article for calcium and all cause mortality.

[@jamesgilmore8192]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Mike there are studies on Calcium intake and all cause mortality. Optimal is around 900-1200mg/day. e.g. Long term calcium intake and rates of all cause and cardiovascular mortality: community based prospective longitudinal cohort study Dietary calcium intake and mortality risk from cardiovascular disease and all causes: a meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies Presumably this would give you an upper limit on oxalate consumption of around 200mg/day using the calcium to oxalate ratio of less than 7 from Bahadoran et al 2022.

[@Schu2505]

This is very interesting. I thought calcium was the bad guy ("calcification" of the arteries). I'm aware of oxalates being bad for the kidney, but didn't know its negative impact on the arteries. I switched from spinach to collard greens because of it. Since magnesium competes with calcium for absorption, and it's important for health and typically deficient, how should one balance the two?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @Schu2505. Calcium can be a "bad guy" if circulating levels are too high, but that's mainly a kidney function story, which regulates systemic calcium levels.. Mg can also bind to oxalate-I aim for about 2x the RDA, and from whole foods. I don't try to balance Mg intake with calcium or oxalate, though.

[@shinola228]

But does the calcium need to be in the digestive tract along with the oxalate? Or is the binding of the two taking place in the vascular system? Just wondering if I need to ensure calcium intake with every meal containing oxalate.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Yep, consumed at the same time is ideal. We don't want it to be absorbed into the blood, that's where the bad stuff can happen.

[@shinola228]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Ok , good to know. Thank you

[@jamesherried9269]

The human body makes oxalates endogenously (from amino acids like glycine and Vitamin C), whether you ingest dietary oxalates or not. Plus, theres the beneficial gut bacteria Oxalobacter feeds exclusively off of oxalates, thereby lowering dietary oxalates in the body. And I've heard and read that Oxalobacter lowers endogenously-produced oxalate levels in the human body too. Yet I've read and heard that only about an estimated 37 percent of the population in the USA has Oxalobacter in their guts. Ive also heard that Oxalobacter is one of the very few gut microbes that has been associated with greater longevity in humans.

[@CharlesOffdensen]

Should I eat my dairy or collard greens together (at the same time) with the fooda high in oxilate? Or the time of the day in which I eat calcium rich foods doesn't matter?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

The safest bet is probably together

[@edwhite2255]

Michael, unrelated to today’s topic, but is there a way to block, blunt, or down regulate IL-11 naturally with foods or exercise? Thx Ed

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Great question, Ed. I looked into that-O3 might, but in mice. Also, centenarians have higher, not lower IL-11, which either complicates the story, or indicates that we can reach longevity with elevated levels.

[@haritanone6264]

Does this mean you need to consume calcium rich foods with oxalate rich foods all the time? For example, if you drink a glass of milk 6-8 hours prior to consuming the high oxalate food, would the calcium ions still be in your intestines to bind with the oxalates 6-8 hours later or would the calcium already be absorbed into the bloodstream after 6-8 hours?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Yep, ideally at the same time

[@Battery-kf4vu]

What about the idea of dissolving calcium citrate in hot water and adding cocoa powder to bind to the oxalates? Concerning the proportions, one mole of oxalate weighs 88g, and one mole of calcium 40g. 10g of cocoa contains 70mg of oxalates, so it would take 70*40/80=32mg of calcium. Since calcium citrate is 20% calcium, it would take 32/0.2= 160mg of calcium citrate. Is the logic sound? That sounds a bit too simplistic. Would it possible to test if it works by doing oxalate urine tests, one day without the calcium citrate, one day with the calcium citrate? Any thought Micheal?

[@richardheck3794]

Do you think collard greens are the main contributor to your great creatinine numbers?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Collard greens are not significantly correlated with creatinine in my data. In contrast, the strongest correlation for lower creatinine is with chickpeas (r = -0.5, p < 0.01, 36 tests). Those correlations (and others!) are on the correlations Tier on Patreon...

[@Rostere]

Well, this result was quite expected.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Because of the title?

[@Rostere]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Yes, I meant that some of the videos on this channel are more speculative or discuss experimental results with weak associations. In contrast, the interaction between oxalates and calcium (and the measures of kidney function) seem rather well established. Of course, I don't mean to say the topic is unimportant.

[@reynolds753]

It’s worth exploring the vitamin C connection with kidney stones. Chemically, vitamin C is made of a negative ascorbate ion, coupled with a positive ion such as hydrogen or sodium or calcium. Hydrogen makes ascorbic acid; and the other two make ascorbates (which are slightly alkaline). Oxalate stones are less likely to form in alkaline urine, so taking ascorbate might actually be beneficial? The opposite is true for phosphate kidney stones, which are less likely to form in acidic urine, so taking ascorbic acid might make sense in this case? Is this correct? Does VC have a role in preventing calcification in the body generally? Would love to read more about this, as it’s rarely discussed…

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

I can look into it, thanks @reynolds753. Until then, I think the best options are limiting oxalate intake and/or having a high enough calcium intake to limit systemic absorption.

[@reynolds753]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 There is an earlier observational study (n=91,000) which found “High intake of dietary calcium appears to decrease risk for symptomatic kidney stones, whereas intake of supplemental calcium may *increase* risk” - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9092314/ In addition, non-animal protein may pose a slightly lower risk, as may higher potassium intake. Higher dietary acid load from animal protein may pose a higher risk - journals.lww.com/cjasn/fulltext/2016/10000/dietary_protein_and_potassium,_diet_dependent_net.17.aspx

[@eliaspfeffer]

Cool!

[@jimjam1719]

so where can i get tested for oxalates? pcp doesn't do that. also, i eat almonds every day along with walnuts and cabbage, however, i eat a lot of cheese too, sometimes at the same time, sometimes not, along with meats and grains. do any nuts have no or very little oxalates? grains too? thanks.

[@jimjam1719]

one more thing, i do drink coffee and lots of water every day too, could this help flush out the oxalates? thank you.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

afaik, plasma oxalate is not commercially available. Measuring kidney function markers could act as a surrogate, though, as mentioned at the end of the video. Also, subscribe!

[@jimjam1719]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 i am subscribed.

[@chetanrs]

does yogurt contain calcium?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

yep

[@ummadam9608]

Does consuming k2 lower oxalates in the body?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Is there published data in support of that?

[@ummadam9608]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 not clue, that's why I'm asking you lol

[@wocket42]

Or just don't eat any oxalates. They are very easy to avoid.