A real-world mud bog drive & recovery

[@MrRanma3030]

As a new 4x4 driver I can't express how valuable your videos are! Your calm, methodical approach with emphasis on safety of the people involved and mechanical sympathy speaks volumes to me. Thanks again for the work your doing!

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks, that's what I am for. You won't find any scripted drama here.

[@G-force_Motorsport]

As they where finding a spanner, I was thinking, just pull the strap through from the front. Sure enough they did -after getting the shackle undone ;) But I probably would have done something similar, very easy to say from an armchair! I've also arranged a strap, in the same manner, same thing happened... One thing to possibly bare in mind, make sure the passenger is prepared to let go, in the unlikely event the strap does snag at the other end, or on the tyre tread.

[@L2SFBC]

Good point thanks 👍

[@stringyGG]

Haha I also had a chuckle when they pulled it through the front after all that. Like watching a footy game and wondering why they didn't just kick it over the other side whilst we have a birds eye view..

[@William64641]

Really helpful and detailed as always. Thank you for showing a varitaty of vehicles equiped differently.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad you liked it! Please share :-)

[@spencerm106]

The bypass tracks would not be a problem if people used their brains and showed respect for the land and others. The tracks get chewed by morons with 35" wheels that flog them out, destroying the area and making passing impossible to the average 4wd which would otherwise, be perfectly capable in standard form. There are too many channels displaying this type of complete and utter disrespect to the world around them. You channel is like a breath of fresh air, and I only wish more people took the time to learn how to be respectful and help keep tracks open for everyone.

[@L2SFBC]

On a daytrip like that, if you can't drive it, turn back. It's not like there's life and death if you don't get through, not like you've drivenfor three hours and are blocked.

[@lukebrady3728]

I agree completely with you on this.

[@shootinbruin3614]

Your technique is very good, but your explication and ability to articulate are simply masterclass. Glad I found your channel

[@L2SFBC]

Appreciate the comment!

[@shootinbruin3614]

@@L2SFBC I'm going through your catalog of videos as I type this and have seen seven of them thus far; It is not an exaggeration to say that you have some of the clearest explanations I've ever heard in regards to the technical aspects of off-roading and vehicles in general. I just feel frustrated on your behalf for having to deal with that one commenter who keeps conflating brake traction control with engine traction control haha. You clearly have a gift for getting a point across. I am also an amateur photographer and found your quick video on exterior photography to be superb! Your channel may not be as large as the mainstream American and Australian off-roading channels with their high-energy delivery but the density of information here far exceeds the infotainment they provide. This channel is a blessing for anyone who wishes to learn in as efficient a way as possible. Keep up the good work!

[@andylo4607]

Thank you for the detailed explanation. Very very educative for this newbie here.

[@cyclemoto8744]

Well done Robert. Cheers

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks, please share!

[@jims408]

What a great step-by-step analysis of the situation and how to deal with it. Many thanks; very helpful!

[@L2SFBC]

Glad it was helpful! Please share :-)

[@toyotatreehugger]

Once again proving that your channel is the best one out there for actually making people better at off-roading. Thank you.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks so much! More to come

[@veryaware]

Another good sensible set of instructions. Well done.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks please share 👍

[@druspork7737]

Rob, some thoughts: Adding the hitch receiver for a snatch simply adds metal and connections. It's better to insert the snatch into the hitch directly and run the pin through. It can be a bit fiddly, but removes metal from the system. For the second vehicle, if the connection is still fiddly you might use the hitch receiver for the sake of ease. Given you wanted speed. It isn't necessary though. Both the speed and the hitch receiver. Once you have a vehicle through, shouldn't you use an equaliser on the vehicle to be recovered (rescue vehicle)? I'd rather the forces were spread across the vehicle frame on the rescue vehicle, personally. The recovery vehicle will be off the hitch, but the rescue vehicle can be set up before the bog with an equaliser. In a bog recovery, I would initially simply look for a low impact tug. To start with. Only if that doesn't work then the snatch. Your snatch by the way, did not have anything like the momentum in the recovery vehicle that it should have. You want that snatch strap to stretch something like 40% and it needs commitment. Mostly though, the slow tug works. Half way between is not text book, even if working. You are better using the vehicle horns to communicate STOP or completion of the recovery. Calling it out by voice can miss the drivers and even radios can be missed. Final - the dampener should go over the metal that might fly. Why was a metal shackle required on the Hilux? Shouldn't be. You've got a hitch pin, hitch receiver and a shackle. Too much metal. The dampener should be on that metal. Weighted. You'll most likely need shackles for an equaliser - soft shackles are better. Thoughts for further recovery vids - try something where a single snatch strap isn't long enough. What straps do you combine and why? How do you connect them? Can it be extended to a third or fourth strap? What changes in the recovery? How to connect a snatch (or other) strap to an equaliser? Some comments below complaining that 4WDs on 35s somehow create these (bog/obstacle) problems. Drivers I know with modified set up on 35's understand these things. It's not what you drive, it's your knowledge, training and how you drive that creates problems. Yahoo drivers on amped-up vehicles create problems. No doubt. So do vehicles towing trailers spinning wheels. And well meaning untrained drivers outside a controlled club environment on "mild" or stock vehicles. Personally, I would have taken the option track. My tyres and suspension should not be troubled by the axle clearance. And bogs/water cost money. Eventually bogs will kill diffs and axles. I keep out if I can. If your concern is seriously to stick solely to the main trail - stay home in these conditions. Painfull in our current wet world, but still. All the best, my friend.

[@L2SFBC]

Very good post, well thought out, thank you. My response: "Adding the hitch receiver for a snatch simply adds metal and connections. It's better to insert the snatch into the hitch directly and run the pin through. It can be a bit fiddly, but removes metal from the system." It does, but it also hugely decreases the bend radius of the strap which reduces its strength then and into the future, and as the strap is flexible, doesn't place the pin properly in double shear. Towbars tend not to shear off, the strap is the thing that breaks. "For the second vehicle, if the connection is still fiddly you might use the hitch receiver for the sake of ease. Given you wanted speed. It isn't necessary though. Both the speed and the hitch receiver." Safety before speed, but everything is a compromise. We could have dug out the car, used Maxtrax...that would have further reduced the recovery load but it was already low so no need. "Once you have a vehicle through, shouldn't you use an equaliser on the vehicle to be recovered (rescue vehicle)? I'd rather the forces were spread across the vehicle frame on the rescue vehicle, personally. The recovery vehicle will be off the hitch, but the rescue vehicle can be set up before the bog with an equaliser. " We could do that. But the recovery forces were low, so no need. As you saw, the Hilux easily pulled the LC80 out. So no need to go for a bridle. "In a bog recovery, I would initially simply look for a low impact tug. To start with. Only if that doesn't work then the snatch. Your snatch by the way, did not have anything like the momentum in the recovery vehicle that it should have. You want that snatch strap to stretch something like 40% and it needs commitment. Mostly though, the slow tug works. Half way between is not text book, even if working." Here I disagree. The more force inolved in a recovery, the greater the danger. So, we always start with a low-speed tug, more of a traction pull. "You are better using the vehicle horns to communicate STOP or completion of the recovery. Calling it out by voice can miss the drivers and even radios can be missed." Horns are also ambigous. They can be accidentally pressed, or another sound can be mistaken for a horn, or a car unconnected with the recovery may sound its horn. "Final - the dampener should go over the metal that might fly. Why was a metal shackle required on the Hilux? Shouldn't be. You've got a hitch pin, hitch receiver and a shackle. Too much metal. The dampener should be on that metal. Weighted. You'll most likely need shackles for an equaliser - soft shackles are better." The cars in question had metal shackles, so we used those. "Thoughts for further recovery vids - try something where a single snatch strap isn't long enough. What straps do you combine and why? How do you connect them? Can it be extended to a third or fourth strap? What changes in the recovery? How to connect a snatch (or other) strap to an equaliser?" I've covered the physics of bridles, and four ways to join two straps. "Some comments below complaining that 4WDs on 35s somehow create these (bog/obstacle) problems. Drivers I know with modified set up on 35's understand these things. It's not what you drive, it's your knowledge, training and how you drive that creates problems. Yahoo drivers on amped-up vehicles create problems. No doubt. So do vehicles towing trailers spinning wheels. And well meaning untrained drivers outside a controlled club environment on "mild" or stock vehicles." Agree to some extent. A car going mad on 31s can damage a track. A car on 35s may not. However...the car on 31s literally cannot make a rut as deep as the car on 35s. It's impossible. And even driven properly on 35s with no wheelspin the ruts will deepen. Every tyre has a slip ratio, and in mud that's much greater than bitumen. The slip angle creates a little wheelspin, which loosens the surface, so the next car sinks a little further. 35s create 35-sized ruts, and driving them well only delays the problem doesn't eliminate it. "Personally, I would have taken the option track. My tyres and suspension should not be troubled by the axle clearance. And bogs/water cost money. Eventually bogs will kill diffs and axles. I keep out if I can. If your concern is seriously to stick solely to the main trail - stay home in these conditions. Painfull in our current wet world, but still." Sure, bogs and water cost money. You are in effect saying I'll save my truck/money and take the bypass track,...my argument is that the bypass track wrecks the track as it becomes wider. Then another bypass track is put in. And another. It never ends, and the forest management get annoyed, rightly so, and close it all down.

[@druspork7737]

@@L2SFBC Wow that was quick! The strap loop goes in the hitch pin - same as in the shackle. Not sure how the bend radius is impacted. Sounds like we are similar mind on the slow tug - I just didn't see it used, rather a half hearted snatch. 35s will air down to a larger footprint than smaller tyres and in turn produce more flotation per tyre. That works btw with your thoughts on narrow tyres just the same.The "spin" you talk of, minor mostly to start with, is reduced. And has less torque on larger tyre , I would have thought. Maybe that's not technically correct. Same torque on larger radius providing smaller slip?It's not impossible to create deeper ruts on smaller tyres - it just involves the rest of the under-vehicle scraping. But in all likelihood, more vehicles getting stuck, more recoveries, more risk. The real issue with creating those bogs is driving in wet wet conditions to start with. It's not always avoidable but often is. I would use the equaliser automatically, just me. Note that the horn is standard training in basic and advanced 4wd. Which doesn't make it absolute but does put some recognised thought behind things. I recognise dropping recovery vids is always going to meet critics. I've done my best for ages to avoid films of my recoveries being broadcast. Love your work Rob, no cynicism there, absolute genuine.

[@L2SFBC]

Well you caught me when I was working through comments which I do in batches :-) I appreciate your thoughts, they're good even if I don't agree with all of them. If I've understood your point correctly, then you're saying put the strap loop over the pin - the pin is a smaller diameter than a shackle, so greater bend radius. Yes the initial pull could have been even slower. Yes 35s will work as you described, but even so, they will eventually make bigger ruts than 31s. The 31s are limited to a rut depth by the diff or whatever else drags, and that depth is less than 35s. Lots of things are taught in training which doesn't make them right, it just means trainers repeat the same thing and the justification is "that's what we do". Every method of signalling has pros and cons - radio, horn, lights, hand signals....one can point out disadvantages of each. I prefer radio as the human voice is the most clear, and other instructions can be given. The others are binary. Thanks again for your comments!

[@Russianmafia10]

Nooooo,. Do not recover off of just the hitch pin. The pin is much stronger with a the hitch inside, as it is supported all the way with a true double shear. With an empty hitch and just the pin, you risk bending the pin and then you can't remove the pin. It's a decent method if you have nothing else, but always use a hitch. That piece of metal is not going to break off. There are much more weaker links in the system

[@nenadmil]

Always useful. Thanks.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad to hear that! Please share :-)

[@danielparsons2859]

Like a formula one pit crew. Really impressive.

[@davidholmes3323]

Good real world video.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks please share 👍

[@HughSmith]

This looked like a "really fun" trip.

[@cameronwood1994]

My opinion on dampers/blankets is this. They are, if a bright colour, a warning flag to everyone that there is something unusual in the way. It at least means that if Joe Bloggs walking his dog comes around the corner, he stands a fighting chance of at least seeing the rope, cable or strap. As for actually damping the recoil of a rope, cable or strap, they're as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

[@L2SFBC]

Great point, they are a good visual aid! Should always be a bright orange then I reckon.

[@cameronwood1994]

@@L2SFBC Mine are bright yellow, but yes, orange would be better.

[@Malc664]

Yeah the dampener bags need redesigning to be like the ones Ronny Dahl uses. I think they're black though.

[@laimingsun5790]

I learned a lot👍thank you so much 🌹

[@L2SFBC]

I'm so glad! Please share :-)

[@cam4954]

Was the recovery point you used on the front of the 80 series rated? Just asking because I recently replaced it on mine with an aftermarket rated recovery point, on the understanding that the factory point was not rated. I do think the factory point looks pretty sturdy and don't imagine it would be close to failure in this situation.

[@L2SFBC]

It's the factory point which is strong enough for the recovery in question.

[@martybell7930]

Are dampeners effective if you use two ie. one at either end?

[@L2SFBC]

The only way they're effective is to make them massively large and heavy. The ones you buy from 4x4 places are useless, just not enough mass to make any difference. They don't hurt, but don't do anything really useful.

[@davidstrachan8912]

Hey Robert. Size of snatch strap. Can they be too big? 11t strap for 3t vehicle or bigger the better? Thanks

[@L2SFBC]

Yes and no. An over-rated strap won't break, but it won't have much elasticity and therefore not store much energy to add to the vehicle's momentum. Most strap ratings are designed for vehicles 1.5x GVM.

[@alanpickering1504]

How do you effectively clear the mud from the coolers and radiator after a trip like this?

[@L2SFBC]

Don't need to as none was thrown up there. But if it was, something like CT-18 and water would fix it. Worst case pull the radiaitor out....yuck!

[@brunoterlingen2203]

I find it difficult to believe that you did not "insist" on using soft-shackles.

[@davidholmes3323]

Nothing wrong with an appropriately rated steel shackle correctly used. Recovery gear is mostly repurposed lifting gear. Bow shackles are fine. Would not use one to join two straps but as a vehicle attached bit of gear they work OK.

[@L2SFBC]

We worked with what the cars had to hand. Metal shackles can work as shown.

[@operation4wheelz]

What to do if your shackle is bound up… kzbin.info/www/bejne/apyqXoGOaLuNipY

[@L2SFBC]

That works sometimes, but not all the time. Also, the bow of the shackle should be in the recovery point as that way the shackle can pivot and still retain the correct orientation. When the shackle is oriented that way, it's harder to rattle.

[@operation4wheelz]

@@L2SFBC correct… see tip 2 or 3… or whatever it is lol

[@Russianmafia10]

A bow shackle was not the best tool in that position. a soft shackle would have been ideal

[@L2SFBC]

Yes that was an option

[@grahameroberts8109]

Is this teaching children?

[@L2SFBC]

What's your view?

[@davidholmes3323]

Not everyone is an expert

[@HughSmith]

Lol ....

[@ianweal3081]

4.30 "Just drop the shackle on the ground there". Why for god sake. I was getting the impression you were teaching recovery technique but once you encouraged this ridiculous concept, nah that's just redicuous. Really. Just leave it on the hitch for goodness sake, no need for hide & go seek games in midst of a recovery. Where's the shackle??? Count to 10 and start looking. I've seen enough, far too arduous to watch.

[@L2SFBC]

It's quicker. If the car is sunk in the mud you want it out ASAP as every second costs money.. The recovery car will be in position, just get the shackle and go. No need to remove it, and then immediately replace it.

[@ianweal3081]

@@L2SFBC I'm not here for a sledging match. If you truly believe that you have just taken all credibility from your training process. Why. 1. The anchorage point in discussion is the recovery vehicle, so always easily accessible. 2. The location of your stationary recovery vehicle will not be the location of it during the actual recovery. Result Should have the vehicle (Hilux) got stuck, someone has to move the recovery vehicle (Pajero) into position, that's when your inspirational hide the shackle and seek it out begins. "Teach leaving shackle attached and being sure it has not been bound up first" prior to any recovery. That's how time is saved, the shackle remains in situ with recovery vehicle. In practice, if a vehicle is stuck in time critical situation, people become irrational enough, don't teach practices complicating the situation.

[@L2SFBC]

Ian, there is no sledging on this channel otherwise the comments get removed and you'll note yours still exists. Dissent is welcome when justified. Your points: 1. yes it's easily accessible, I'm talking about speed of recovery which in mud bogs is critical. Same for incoming tide beach recoveries. No so much for rocks for example. Grab the shackle and connect, easy. 2. we know where the recovery car will be within a metre or two, and the shackle is easy to find. 3. anyone else can get to the shackle if the person assigned can't Often in recoveries quite a large amount of gear is outside the vehicle, especially in winching. I teach to have ONE place for it all, the Recovery Spot. This means that everyone knows where it is, and kit is less likely to be left behind...and less searching for it. Now there's nothing wrong with leaving it attached. Nor is there anything wrong with having the shackle with the person pre-assigned to connect it. There is another comment saying always use horns not radio for the instructions - yet there are pros and cons there too.

[@ianweal3081]

@@L2SFBC I'm sorry, I still believe you're adding a non required hindrance. What I also didn't cover, but you just did; In the event nothing eventuates, if the shackle is left attached all gear accounted for to drive off. In your teaching, if everyone drives off, next recovery, where's the shackle, oh no, it's in that special location 10 klms back, shit! All my years of practical experience accounts for people's actual practice, the shackle will still be on the ground after everyone has driven off, guarantee it. In your beach recovery scenario you included, no one is going to be preparing to drive into a soft sinking sand situation, it takes everyone by surprise, but if the shackle is placed on the sand it will have burried itself, another complication added to again delay the recovery. Anyhow, by now anyone reading the comments have two views and can make their own determination. Once they have lost 1 shackle they'll learn to leave it attached, just partially loosened so not to delay a urgent recovery.

[@L2SFBC]

I can see your point, and my technique to avoid loss is ONE spot for all gear, and a final check before leaving. Also works with camping, I drive off and then come back for a check. Very often recovery gear lives outside the vehicle during recoveries, especially multi-vehicle situations. There is no single right way to do most things, pros and cons of different approaches. Thank you for highlighting another way.

[@Gemini_0815]

Im sorry I really like your channel and this content is interesting but the shaking video is so terrible I’m going to puke if I watch it. Literally 😢

[@L2SFBC]

Sorry about that