A Sociopath Explains Sociopathy

Patric Gagne is a sociopath-one of the five percent of people who are. Growing up, she reports she “mostly felt nothing.” When she was diagnosed as a sociopath in her early adulthood, she finally understood why she experienced life so differently than those around her. She got her PhD in Psychology and wrote her memoir, Sociopath to demystify disorders like psychopathy and sociopathy.
Gagne doesn’t hold back-in a way perhaps only someone who doesn’t feel shame can achieve!--sharing with us what it feels like to be a sociopath and what neurotypical people get wrong about these disorders. It's not every day we get to hear about sociopathy from someone who lives it, so settle in for an extended episode and a conversation like no other.
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[@carolaltman1107]

Her terrific command of language allows her to explain herself beautifully

[@eliz49]

Such a gift

[@patricialavallee8286]

And explain away any issues if called on the carpet at a job. Make the ones above them think she's right, we're wrong..explain it all away. As they eye their job... Snake in the grass Very often people who are they're bosses are afraid of them, and when employees go to them with complaints avoid the employees under this, " manager." Snakes 🐍 in the grass

[@patricialavallee8286]

​@@eliz49 it's not a gift. Gift of BS. Crazy like foxes, and a nightmare to work under

[@Vypersprofoundpondering]

Being a diagnosed psychopath, it was seen as the most logical sense because you realized you're able to see bird eyes view of the situation with multiple undertones and codex to each individual person. I could tell your whole life story just by the way you sway your arms or the amount of muscle pressure you exude in certain movments.

[@bugsea54]

I have an older sister like this. I'm 60 and I just figured it out a few years ago. Most of my life and my parents have lived with shame and less than from her neglect of empathy. The lies covered up the real issue and the rest of the family would think we did something wrong because she did not care for us. But she would quickly cover her tracks and do the pretend thing covering up her dirty deeds. When I found out who she really was my anger at her was uncontrollable. During my elderly moms illnesses the destruction from stealing, not helping with care giving, etc just put me over the top. I have disconnected from her. For me the years of deceit and destruction of our family , I just can't forgive. She was born this way. Still not understanding what category she is in, but when I look back at 50 years of her life it all adds up to me. Yes more work needs to be done because family destruction is enormous from this disorder as much of mental illness is

[@surlypiratewench1969]

Please, just for yourself, forgive her. “ she knows not what she does”. That seems unfathomable to most people. I am bi-polar 1. I’ve spent my life regulating my emotions . I’m not always successful . I feel things 10x deeper than normal people. I hate it. You can’t see mental illness so people forget. Then when I react strongly ( and I’m on meds) it’s very off putting. I’m so sorry Your pain is palpable. I wish you healing and many blessings.

[@jammasterjay4298]

I can empathize with you my sister was like what you described

[@bugsea54]

@@surlypiratewench1969 she's forgiven but I can't be around her as she can't be trusted. Her daughter and her husband have also been conned and protected her behavior as they benefitted from it . She is 74 but still very dangerous. Financial exploration from a family member is devastating. She also never paid retribution for the last theft which is not a reconciliation for a relationship. Sad when she's gone her only grandson has no family on either parents side from her behavior. Everyone else pays for her crimes. My new boundaries do not include someone who can't be trusted.

[@surlypiratewench1969]

@@bugsea54 I’m terribly sorry. My own mom is a sociopath and she’s destroyed our family. What a horror to live through. Please take care of yourself 🥲

[@Kari.F.]

Sociopathy, psychopathy, narcissism and so on are not mental illnesses. They are personality disorders. Those disorders can cause mental illness in the people around them, though.

[@alexisarouge]

Glad this woman is sharing her experience. Appreciated.

[@rogerthornton4068]

Gratitude

[@cherylrleigh1912]

A narcopath is a person who exhibits traits of both Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD). The term is a combination of the words "narcissist" and "sociopath" or "psychopath". Narcopaths are also known as malignant narcissists and are considered to be among the most dangerous and psychologically disturbed people.

[@GinaHarrisToo]

Donald Trump. Vladimir Putin. Roger Stone. Meghan Markle. The list is endless.

[@stacysharlet3486]

And my mother. They are the worst!

[@AnimosityIncarnate]

Sam Vaknin, simultaneously giving insanely good conceptualizations and insanely bad information out in the same videos. These people are LEGIT like the riddler irl 😂

[@kolimarie]

Thank you for talking about the similarities between sociopathy, borderline, and narcissism. As someone who is diagnosed as BPD, that’s such an important distinction!

[@mariaverroye9510]

Katie…….Id love for you to have Dr Ramani on your show. Y’all could do a dive into malignant narcissistic sociopathic personalities (tDump).

[@johnbolton2149]

She’s had her on. That’s how I discovered her.

[@emilyau8023]

Ramani has a very black and white view of ASPD, and because of that I don't like her.

[@Argelius1]

Kudo’s to Patric for being SO articulate about concepts that are so challenging to explain/describe. I learned a lot. Thanks, Katie!

[@debbiebaddeley6159]

Oh my goodness! What a wonderful discussion with Patric. She was amazing at explaining what sociopathy is. Thanks to both of you.

[@jessicahahn6300]

Interesting, because there are people on the other side of the social emotion bell curve - who feel those social emotions *way* too intensely.

[@michaelspurling4376]

I find it amusing that the lady with the milkshake in the Mercedes might also have been a sociopath but her wealth allowed her to just get away with doing the bad things.

[@artiste335]

Definitely a sociopath. No concern about others, no concern about the environment, etc. Despicable.

[@pthornton102652]

Katie, you made me laugh out loud - for real - when you talked about sitting in church, and your imagination started thinking about what would have happened if you did something crazy. Only recently, I had similar thoughts while on Corporate Zoom Meetings with over 100 Attendees. Cheers!

[@seacatMEOW]

Thanks for sharing and informing! Keep up the good self-work. These types of conversations help inform the uninformed and can transform society in a positive way.

[@jabbermocky4520]

There is a distinction between sociopathy and psychopathy. But it doesn't matter much when you have been victimized by one or the other. Both psychopaths and sociopaths will do serious harm to others if they can. Deliberately. That's what they share in common. Unless you are a trained psych professional it's best to avoid both personality types if you want to stay safe and sane.

[@RM-xf9gi]

I love this lady.

[@yesitschelle]

You're right. The distinction is pretty huge to 1 in 20 people, though, who have one of those. 5% is a lot. Imagine if they were getting treatment before they grew up? Imagine if most of them became stable and safe?

[@JamFlava1]

Wrong AGAIN. I am diagnosed with ASPD and schizoid by age 27, I am 34 now. I don’t harm anyone….Why would I invest my emotions and hurt people when i don’t care about them? What do I get from it? Boosting my pathetic ego so I can feel better about myself? Sigh….Our true nature is indifferent, callous, cold, lack of empathy, limited empathy it depends on the person and emotionless at times but more in muted way. And that women who claim to be one is not an sociopath at all….I can read my own breed who has truly ASPD. We basically don’t care about humanity or society at all even It collapses. We don’t care. Right term is ASPD not sociopathy….All we know is we’re different than neurotypical individuals, which you call ‘’sociopathy’’ but we call to ourselves ‘’indifferent’’ ASPD individuals are intimidating, callous, predatory looks. Let’s face it, do you sense something off about her? I don’t think so, she is plain normal, that’s why. If she was an real ‘’sociopath’’ you can feel the aura there is something off. Most ASPD individuals have a cold presence, predatory stare. Like I said before, I can read my own breed.

[@Chrisbybeebee]

​@@yesitschelle It is untreatable. Therapy just makes them better manipulators.

[@yesitschelle]

@@Chrisbybeebee Evidence? If it's a single anecdote, that won't compete with serious research.

[@kez-chick5647]

This was so interesting, as I’ve always been Taught that, All Sociopaths and Psychopaths are Narcissistic but not all Narcissists are the above. And that Psychopaths are born that way and that Sociopaths come about by there environment. It shows me that, if you get a child into therapy early enough, they have a greater chance of learning and fitting into society.

[@user-yy9wx8pk9b]

I cannot thank you enough for this interview. Both in marriage and children, this enlightened my understanding of the person I was married to for 12 years AND the similar traits that are apparent in one of my children (I will be sharing this with his therapist and soon Children’s Hospital where he will have an assessment next month). THANK YOU sincerely. - Tiffany

[@SteveXNYC]

No one is perfect and every one is far from it.

[@Kari.F.]

That's very true. However, being a flawed human is VERY different from being a perpetually destructive force in other people's lives. Sociopaths and narcissists can seek help and do a lot of hard work and introspection to overcome their personality disorders, like this lady has done. Statically, very few of them have the self insight necessary to admit to themselves - let alone anyone else - that they need it.

[@camillewilkinson4343]

I am so appreciative of this interview. I find Patric's open-ness and Katie's deft empathy and journalistic prowess really helped me to see, and understand aspects of this personality 'curve', so much better. It sheds a light, also to personalities in general in the components of how we each/all experience ourselves in the world. I might seem like I am a bit over-applying my sense and perspective regarding these insights as explanations... But I feel it is a start in how we/I can even more compassionately appreciate one another, even relate to one another. Thank You to both of you for this conversation.

[@AvaJochheim]

Thank you for this interview. It is very interesting to me and helpful!

[@palmer5555]

I’m listening to Patric’s audiobook right now. It’s a bit of a spoiler learning she marries David but I’m glad they made it. Where I am in the book right now they are going through a very tough time. Most people would be throwing in the towel & breaking up. I’m glad to learn they stick it out & continue to grow individually & as a couple. I also must say how lucky Patric is just by the family she was born into - white, middle-to-upper middle class socioeconomic situation, parents who were emotionally & financially stable, even though they divorced when Patric was young. They were not perfect human beings but they were able to provide an environment where Patric could (sort of) safely figure herself out. Many young people with sociopathy are not given this opportunity. She hasn’t talked about this at all in the book and I hope she does at some point. Her born-given privilege definitely gave her a leg up.

[@gracenurse3365]

Absolutely. Most people cannot acknowledge their own privileges.

[@samhartford8677]

She acknowledged that right in the beginning of this conversation.

[@artiste335]

Definitely true. Also, her sister and her husband have been very healing for her.

[@Poppy-yx8js]

I would like to know why sociopaths gaslight people and try to make their victims feel like they are the ones with a PD.?

[@Jess-kn8vl]

Same. What a devastating issue to be accused of not caring when you do and it's the sociopath that doesn't care. Especially if it's a parent or spouse.

[@SandySass]

Because it shifts the blame away from them and precents you from recognizing what they are doing as abuse.

[@emilyau8023]

I have not done that since elementary school

[@bmac6645]

Learned a lot from this facinating discussion. Thank you!

[@60clow]

Great interview Katie! Thanks for sharing! So brave for Patric to share her story. 🥰

[@lizzien5846]

Really fascinating interview!

[@taylorblue8141]

Very interesting discussion. Thanks Katie & Patric for this excellent interview. Learned a lot. Keep up the research and writings Patric. Katie, I agree with Patric - you are level headed and always bring an open mind and thoughtful perspective to your interviews. Thank you both for sharing. Stay safe. 💙💙

[@Keepitkind7]

I was in a third world country with a friend. We walked past a beggar on the street (they were everywhere). I was so terribly sad-empathetic. My friend went across the street, bought food and gave it to the man. As we walked away, my friend said something funny. I asked, "Aren't you sad?" He replied, "Nope. It's a fine day...but who's the one who bought him the food?" I realized my FEELINGS were of no help that hungry beggar. Love is a verb at its best-an action. You don't always have to FEEL it. Lesson learned to my emo self. I applaud you Patric in your journey.

[@emilyau8023]

This is the best representation and explanation of an actual sociopath in daily life that I have seen so far that isn't in prison.

[@rfernandezlorain]

Had zero knowledge in this area. How incredibly interesting and enriching. Thank you for sharing, and making me a little smarter a bit more understanding today. ❤ to all affected.

[@complexmindsimpleman6642]

The fun part of this interview is watching the manipulation and shadowing skills play out. Patric could be a superhero or villian depending on the time and circumstance. Fascinating

[@SandySass]

Yep. Pretty sure I saw some duper's delight in there too.

[@MyFavoriteColorIsBLUE]

I immediately thought that you was going to have Trump on your show Katie.

[@donnabaardsen5372]

👍👍👍👍

[@itchythescratchygirl]

I really appreciate this conversation. So excellent to get a glimpse into another world.

[@nettwench]

Katie you're still the best interviewer in the business!

[@artiste335]

What an excellent interview! Learned so much from Patric and Katie's superb questions and wonderful interviewing style was perfection. I think Patric's sister and her husband have helped her tremendously. She is certainly a pioneer in this field and will likely help many people in the future.

[@lj9524]

Thank you both for this excellent conversation on these mental health issues. So important in so many ways.

[@Snippets-of-Mendi]

Thank you for shining a light on this. I learned so much. ❤

[@wendyfilice7274]

Such an interesting interview. Thank you so much for sharing.❤

[@yesitschelle]

I have my own reasons for having the wrong emotions, and I think there's a third option. As long as I cognitively understand how the people around me feel, I can express that. Say what I think it means to them, "This is so exciting, are you happy or overwhelmed?" "This must be a hard day for you," etc. People like being understood.

[@jerrydeanswanson79]

Morning Katie. Thanks for the discussion. And Hello from Wisconsin.

[@GinaHarrisToo]

Great interview! I have the book in my queue. Even more eager to read it now.

[@mpetry912]

Great topic. Listening with interest. Great glasses !

[@melissawilliamson8871]

Thank you Katie. This was fascinating. You have exceptional skills 👏.

[@lukeworldwide]

What an amazing and really important conversation. Unrecognised and untreated sociopathy and psychopathy is bad for those individuals, and is occasionally CATASTROPHIC for society. I really feel that the psychology profession has let society down by not improving the very low general understanding of this issue. Thanks Patric and Katie for this fascinating and important conversation. 😊

[@aminawood1737]

Fascinating conversation

[@dianayoga2010]

I am reading it. It is beautifully written. Bravo for this jewel.

[@dannybrashear5857]

I question if sociopathy can be called a disease if it provides an individual with an advantage for survival. As a biologist, I see an evolutionary advantage for such an individual in a world without the rule of law. History is full of sociopathic societies that overwhelmed others with their superior skills for warfare because it is much easier to terrorize others if you don't feel terror yourself. I think that our current political climate may be giving us a glimpse into just how prevalent sociopathy is in our society which suggests it is much closer to 25%. The prevalence of sociopathy may actually be what tips the balance between having an advanced civilization and the intermittent periods where chaos rules. Evolutionarily speaking, the superior individual is the one that most effectively spreads their genes and has nothing to do with how advanced a civilization is unless the rule of law prevents sociopaths from thriving.

[@janedoe1146]

Great observation, so well articulated! Everything you stated makes sense and is what i've been struggling to understand about society these days. And i agree, it does seem like there's a huge population as you stated at 25%. Thank you!

[@kmhkennedy]

Yeah I would say not. Social relationships and community are one of humanities foundational survival traits. We built our society (note society) on communal living, shared resource etc. we have countless examples of the ways we learnt to “trust” each other, handshakes to show we don’t have a weapon etc. etc. and people who put that trust at risk are a detriment not a benefit. The masking behaviors have developed as a result of the seemingly innate knowledge that sociopathic behavior fundamentally put the individual at risk of being ousted from society. Masking is not the disorder itself but a symptom of it being hidden. We won’t know what the disorders actual innate symptoms are until the mask is fully removed. So we can’t know what the benefits and drawback are. Also because we don’t know if it’s hereditary we don’t know if it is a gene that can be passed on or not. I would argue that all societies are sociopathic given that a society cannot feel emotion the same way an individual can. It’s by nature diluted by the differing perspectives of each individual who makes up that society. One person might feel anger why another feels sadness. For a society to reflect like an individual there would have to be a singular focus of opinion and emotion. Sociopathic society, is a term that really encompasses the overuse of buzz words, directly against what this interview was talking about. Multiple person disorder society, narcissistic society, bi polar society. It’s a little bit goofy. Also, what stops a sociopathic society from cannibalizing itself? If each individual struggles to empathize (without treatment) with the person standing next to them, and there can only be so many kings and winners in a society I would think a civil war is more likely for “sociopathic society” than any form concerted effort to over throw a neighbor

[@angelagladstone8863]

I have similar thoughts about ASD, HSP, ADHD to name a few. I can definitely see an evolutionary advantage and necessity to have a wide spread of talents and characteristics within a tribe as a basis for survival. You need the level headed thinkers, the ones that notice a tiny stick cracking, the hunters with boundless energy, those in tune with the mood of a group...

[@catnap8042]

Love the milkshake story!😏 Great interview, thank you both really much!

[@ko-dd5cp]

I’d be so curious to hear Patrick’s take on HSPs and if this is the opposite end of the sociopathic spectrum!

[@shecat1964]

I have suspected my youngest daughter of sociopath or BPD traits. Since she was little, she seemed to not get emotion. We would have family movie night every week and watch some disney or something with my older daughters. We would all be either crying or making oh my gosh comment, during intense moments, and she would look at us like we were from another planet. She would keep asking what what? Many times i would pause the show and explain to her what just happened.I thought at first maybe she was just zoning out and missing. At that point everything else seemed some what normal She seemed loving and empathetic. As she had grown older she has said and done some very cruel and unkind things, with zero remorse. If i bring something up that has hurt me deeply, no matter how recent, she just says bro when are you going to stop bringing that up? She is 19 now. She went through her worst faze when she was 13 to 16. She even made me very sick once by adding some strange salt to my coffee. When she finally admitted to it a year later she sad i was acting salty so she thought it would help. My acting salty was telling her i was warn out from driving her every day to her friends house, i was very weak from covid and took a long time to recover. I had to wake up to go get her every night. So i said look can we do this every second day please? She turned to me in the car and said i cant wait till you are old enough to dump in a nasty nursing home and leave you there. I had also just been through a hypotensive crisis and put on meds and was still recovering from nearly dying from covid. I could not taste. She put all this salt in my pot of coffee and my blood pressure was too high and i felt awful for days. I could have had a stroke, i have already had one TIA. I have had her cats poop rubbed on my head, glass jar thrown at my head. Shoulder checked into the wall as i walk by. Then found out i had cancer, I had to go in and have a section of lung removed. She brought home 2 cats from her bf, when they broke up, and they were peeing all over my house. I told her i cant come home and recover breathing that all in, it has to be cleaned up. It could damage my raw lung. Nope not a care. I had to stay locked in my bedroom. It does not help her father is a abusive narcissist and alcoholic, who has also filled her head with absolute garbage. Things she has accused me of, were either things hes done, or i can hear the vile lies coming out are from his mouth. When she was around 14 before the worst started, i tried to get her help yet again. I found a new lady psychiatrist at the hospital, i thought my daughter would like, she had a hard time connecting with other councilors in the past.. At that point she felt something was wrong with her. The damn Dr refused to even see my daughter, because i had said i thought she might have bpd. She was not diagnosed with anything. I even begged this drs receptionist 3 diff times. The answer was no.And if she acted out again to call the cops. I will never forget/forgive that, as my daughter ran away shortly after that, for over a year i was not even allowed to know where she was living. This all crushed me because she was my youngest and my baby. And yes i spoiled her way too much. I was making good money when she was younger, and i could afford nicer toys and things. Her sisters kinda resented that. She also did not have chores like my older girls, she had health issues younger too. I babied her. Now what is in her head, after i started geting older and sick, and had to stop working, that i was a neglectful rotten mother. Her father is her fav parent now, He will buy her pretty much anything she wants, if he has the money. He never paid me a dime in child support. He has recently convinced her i was stealing money from her. He has her convinced the child benefit i got, to help support her needs and every dime of it was used to her care and needs, was supposed to go to her, for her to use as she wanted. She may now have caused me some issues with my income. Because of the cancer and other health issues, i am now on government help. Because of her mental health issues they allowed me to keep her a dependant. But they did not give much more for her basic needs and i certainly could not afford to feed her cats. Her father had her contact my social worker and claim i was not paying for enough. I went without proper food so many times to make sure she had healthy things to eat. And she has expensive taste. So now im waiting for that hammer to fall. Wow geez i just wrote a short novel.

[@Arete37]

This deserves a long, expert answer and I hope you get one!

[@user-dt2hk5tf7o]

I feel for you as I know what you are going through. My husband is a malignant narcissist, if I wrote down what he had done to me I doubt it would be believed. My daughter, now 22, told me three years ago she thought she was a sociopath, she was correct. These two are working together against me. She is callous, cold, vengeful, a liar, a manipulator. Everything she accuses me of is what she has done to me. He lies to her and she lies to him about me. It’s toxic to say the least. I cannot leave, I have nowhere to go. She has told so many lies about me, it is character assassination. I’m living a nightmare that I can hardly believe. I wake in the night in a panic, I am highly stressed. It is difficult for outsiders to understand what I am going through. To overhear her tell him to throw me out has been a punch to my heart. He has lied about me to his family, his boss, his friends. She has lied about me to her friends, her boyfriend, his parents and family. It’s destroying me and they laugh about it to each other, it’s amusing to them.

[@shecat1964]

@@user-dt2hk5tf7o I know you feel stuck. But you have to get away. Even if its for a few months to clear your head. Watch HG Tudor. The man maybe a monster but hes the reason i knew what happened to me. He gives you the insight to the evil prospective and motives. If you do not get away it will only be worse. Please for the sake of any anity you have left, and you do have some left because you know whats going on is wrong. Find someone you can talk to. And document everything. Written or recorded.

[@jlvandat69]

Very interesting and important conversation. In discussing sociopaths I can't help but think of you know who, DJT, who litteraly displays every single attribute associated with that personality disorder.....and he's on the November ballot! But beyond that I also think the attributes of a sociopath are found to a greater or lesser degree in a much larger percentage of the population than the textbooks claim. It's either that or I have just had an unfortunate life in which I have encountered an abnormally large percentage relative to the general population. I have seen attributes associated with a sociopath in many people (and more frequently in people who have achieved positions of authority, e.g., in the corporate realm) and sometimes I even think that it's the majority versus the minority that are suffering from the disorder, to a greater or lesser extent. Side note regarding the milkshake through the sunroof incident....broadly-speaking, that incident, IMO, exemplifies this ladies journey.....she has fully identified her 'disability', learned from it, and successfully modified her behavior such that it manifests in constructive ways, There's a chance the 'dumpster driver' will reconsider her behavior.

[@bmac6645]

I think the other driver would be more likely to be angry and vindictive towards the next person she perceives to be disrespecting her. It might've been satisfying in the moment, but not a good solution by any definition

[@jlvandat69]

@@bmac6645 Possibly, since it's unlikely the single milkshake action would cause the Mercedes driver to rethink her values, i.e., she's likely "not salvageable" unless she experiences enough similar negative feedback to motivate a desire to change (she might need multiple milkshakes! 🤣🤣)

[@user-nq7mj1cp6c]

So funny you brought this up, I was thinking of Biden, who displays every attribute associated with that personality. Especially when he panders to black people and then tells them "You ain't black, if you don't vote Democrat"...wow....or when he speaks to people who have lost family members and always makes it about him to the point he actually makes up stories so it can be about him. Or when he pulled out of Afganistan, and the 12 marines were murdered, then when an interviewer brought it up he states " that was 12 days ago" with no emotion, just it was over and let's move on, because of course it's easy for him because he's a sociopath!

[@sunshine4sue2]

😱WOW, I think she just described "Dump Trump"👀?? 🗳️Vote 💙 for democracy and normalcies, no chaos, just peace ... 💁You know like normal human beings 🕊️👏👏👏🕊️

[@AllieB-11.11]

No she didn't. Vote Dems for TONS of chaos, insanity and general social breakdown. Btw they haven't got a chance of winning.

[@chet9128]

Sounds like she’s describing Brandon, Mr/Mrs O, and The Big Cs

[@lorettanericcio-bohlman567]

@@chet9128nice try 🙄

[@artiste335]

She is exactly describing Trump.

[@justrosy5]

It might help if people stopped using such ubiquitous words like "empathy" and started using plain English phrases like "take others into consideration" and "think about what others are going through" and so forth. The first time I ever even heard the word "empathy," I was in my mid-30s at work, being told, "Now, you aren't allowed to confuse sympathy with empathy." I was all, "Huh?" and "What's the difference?" No one ever gave me any good definitions for either term, and to this day, I really have no idea what the difference is supposed to be. In any event, I just try to make change where I can to help others who it seems no one gives a rip about. I figure that's what matters in the end, and the terms used don't really make any difference. Another thought: Honestly? I think it's ok to be more balanced and even-keeled when difficult things happen. I do think that some people over-react, and then that's called "normal." But a ton of that is socialized into them, they're not born that way. Each child is different already, and when you have two or more kids, they're each going to have a different experience, even when they're twins or triplets growing up in the same home, dressing the same, eating the same foods with their parents, etc. When kids watch how their parents do things, some kids will just copy what their parents do, others will do what they believe their parents want them to (to avoid punishment) and other kids will just do what comes naturally to them. The kids whose behaviors are influenced by their parents aren't being honest. They might get all the praise, be the "golden children," and wind up in their parents' wills, but they grow up not even knowing who they really are. IMHO, that's what's not normal (healthy) at all. I think what needs to happen is that parents get informed by society that they don't get to determine how their children should feel or who their children are inside. Literally, that needs to be outlawed. I'm sick and tired of seeing kids, everywhere, being put through this perpetual meat-grinder by their own parents. I mean, really, that's pretty disgusting, when you think about it for any real length of time. I like Suzie Plakson's "UBU." Every kid needs to hear that!

[@hearsayfiles]

I only felt after a life long of probing pushing from my narc mother, anxiety, walk this way talk that way, your no good you don't do as I say, you don't care about us you have no empathy or same mindednesss and feelings. I felt so distant and had of course low self-esteem from that. so I felt just anxiety. later on when I got the self-esteem back and the help I minimally needed I finally felt confident, just after making more money. I got the praise back from my parents so to speak. their shame from being an asp Tourette kid I internalized as anxiety. it's away now so exhausting. always finding a mask. I love stillness in me today. edit, it led to not hating people but just feeling nauseating from the social pushing im just not feeling.

[@Arete37]

Parents who only see their kids as being some kind of reflection of themselves, that hurts. You feel like they don't see the real you, and you don't know who you are because of that. Glad you found peace.

[@tartgreenapple1]

Its interesting how many comments are from a place of stereotypes and common "knowledge" (which may not be accurate). Many obviously didn't listen. This illustrates the stigma of many mental/neurological conditions. People think they know things, they dont and they help perpetuate a (bad) cycle. I appreciated this discussion. It was very interesting and thought provoking and I wish more would listen. I would like to point out that "neurotypical" is not necessarily the opposite of sociopath as she uses it. I'm neurodivergent but I didn't fit under her definition which seemed to be simply, sociopathy. Being "overly" empathetic, I hardly related to those unfeeling situations. The masking, though? I can definitely relate. I'm simply pointing that out as clarification, not a criticism. I think she's super bold and brave to put herself out there like this. I really hope that her book, her story, etc can help to change people's minds on health stigmas, jumping to conclusions and abelism. Thank you to both of you!

[@emilyau8023]

You seem like a very smart person. I have ASPD, and so many try to dehumanize me and accuse me of doing things I didn't when they don't know me. It's interesting how some neurotypicals want to view themselves as superior to neurodivergence, but I have met the most cruelest neurotypicals that could be even worse than someone with ASPD.

[@Unit68]

When she describes what she felt when she stabbed a classmate with a pencil, not once did she express any remorse or concern for that child's pain or fear. The whole interview was about how SHE felt and never about anyone else.

[@lr8763]

She’s a sociopath.

[@always-ask-why]

Exactly!!! I don't care if she has bad intentions or no intentions - I don't want to be around her or know her. If the person she stabbed in the neck has lifelong complications from the stabbing, naturally she would not care in the least. I'm happy she isn't actively hurting people but sociopaths are bad and I think of them as more animal than human.

[@angelagladstone8863]

To be fair, this interview was about her and describing what's it was like growing up with sociopathy, so...

[@Purplerose200]

@@always-ask-why Most sociopaths are dangerous people and are to be avoided at all times. Sociopaths don't feel empathy for others but want others to be empathic towards them and they will use you. They are very manipulative and do not feel guilt if they've done something wrong. At the end of the day, they only care about themselves and what they can get from other people. It's like a game with these people and they just want to win over others. And yeah she may not be hurting people as of now, but if she lacks empathy and guilt for wrongful actions then she's just as bad as people who do commit violent crimes.

[@emilyau8023]

That's the point. I have ASPD, and I only understand cognitive pain for others. She also mentioned that.

[@jbricks3358]

I’m curious if there are any IFS experts here willing to apply the internal family systems paradigm to socicopathy.

[@BloomByCC]

I adore that Patric is so open about her sociopathy! So fascinating and we need to talk openly about all aspects of beyond human. Thank you! How crushing that Patrics feelings are so obtuse and hazy, she wants to reach them but they're like balloons constantly out of reach. 🎈🎈🎈

[@terencecampbell4770]

I was born an orphaned foster kid and counseled most of my life..things didn't start to feel better until I came to realize these people invent disorders then analyze them so they can have a job-"Its all psychobabble rap to me"-Alan Parsons

[@coopersmom8339]

I think Patric should have her own podcast with an interview her husband as well. I would love to hear about her husband's unconditional love and efforts to work with Patric to get through their end of relationship. I can give huge credit towards her husband who's always been willing to listen and working with Patric for many years. I think it's crucial for people who have any type of personality issue need an opportunity to meet and work with a person who truly like, understand and have the other feel fully accepted regardless of who they are. Normally we all should have this from our parents being fully loved, accepted when we grow up, however, there are significant population who lack of this essential love from their parents. I have no doubt Patric's husband must've been nurtured by down to earth loving parents. This interview helps me to understand more about people who have sociopathic behavior. Thank you.

[@MayaChadalavada-nz7qg]

I was married to a sadistic sociopath and he almost killed me. There is no help for people like that

[@sharonhearne5014]

Two of my siblings plus my mom have sociopathy, I think, although my mom may have been a full blown psychopath. My sibling is highly intelligent and seems well versed in imitating normal human behavior but hides episodes of compulsive sexuality and normal conversations appear to hide narcissism and repressed aggressiveness. As in the instance presented this sister abused a younger neighborhood child for no apparent reason to the point where both sets of parents had to intervene or a lawsuit or youth incarceration was imminent.

[@cherylrleigh1912]

One aspect often overlooked in these discussions is that, while sociopaths may indeed lack empathy towards others, they often exhibit an abundance of empathy towards themselves. Their inability to empathize with others does not extend to themselves; rather, they frequently prioritize their own well-being and interests above all else.

[@michaelspurling4376]

Sounds like you are describing a Republican.

[@justrosy5]

I'd like to know where the following fit in with all of this: 1a) Autism 1b) Aspergers 2) Borderline Personality Disorder (in relationship to the rest of these) 3a) Narcissism (In relationship to the rest of these) 3b) Boomer/Joneser Generation(s) 3c) GenX/Millennial Generation(s) 3d) The parent/child relationship between both sets in 3b & 3c 3e) The remaining generations and all the relationships between all the generations, etc. 4) Bi-Polar 5) Our nation's economics, from our workforce to homelessness to our prisons 6) What our politicians are doing to improve everything for everyone affected by all these things in the US.

[@gracenurse3365]

Good luck! I’m sure you can figure all that out by bedtime!

[@chrishagreen3988]

42

[@Flowergirl7x7]

"Boomers" & "Generation X!" Don't talk silly 🙄😌🙏🏻🇬🇧 That's ridiculous. Nothing to do with this. & Millennials are Far worse re Entitlement

[@user-rh4vp7fd8n]

We need these insights in our House of Representatives and country. Sounds like an important platform to me!

[@timmyI115]

love that bookshelf in the background

[@dorothea_walland]

so much respect for Patric ❤❤❤ you may not be able to feel the full richness, but you do bring so much richness and understanding and appreciation to the world ❤ .and it will help SO MANY people! your karma check is juuust fine 🌟🌈

[@Keepitkind7]

Oh my. I've had that exact same feeling in church a few times. It's entertaining to think of the reactions to a scream. Would never do it and reminds me of the control we have and how were all mostly doing OK as a society...mostly. Brave of Patric to tell her story.

[@aclem8246]

We all have OCD to some extent. We live on routine and actually grow from a place of routine as a base. OCD is just becoming very specific.

[@norahmason7451]

I teach and this was very interesting. Thinking how it applies to some students…

[@Arete37]

Stabbing the other child with the pencil: I wonder if you had been taught that we are not all one thing, but different parts wanting different things, if that would have relieved some of your pressure. You can love and hate someone in equal measure at the same time; part of you wants to do one thing, part of you does not want to do that thing; you have an impulsive, non- thinking side, and a rational, cognitive part of you. That eliminates a need to decide what emotion or behavior you have to choose. You can accept that you might have many conflicting feelings, and they'll all pass. That understanding sure helped me. Ah, and then you both talk about Id, and Ego. Two parts.

[@60clow]

Doesn’t family of origin create sociopathy? Kids who are abused seem to be prevalent among this group?

[@emilyau8023]

Yes, those with a troubled childhood have an increased likelihood of developing ASPD, but not all.

[@Arete37]

But wait. If you felt like you SHOULD demonstrate your feelings of sadness about your ferret dying, wasn't that feeling of a need to respond like others because you needed a sense of being one of-- us? You wanted to fit in? You did care about the feelings of others as long as they related to you, maybe. This is a great video, I'm learning a lot. I'm a therapist. And I do feel like I've been in the presence of true evil twice. People who took pleasure in the pain of others and whose goal was to cause them distress. I could easily imagine them killing someone.

[@emilyau8023]

Hello, I have ASPD, and I will be honest and say yes I personally just wanted to fit in. But I never will.

[@janetomes]

She stabbed a child in the neck...I can't warm up to this person at all and will she do it again? She said it in such a cold manner...my ex is a sociopath and they make my skin crawl

[@emilyau8023]

That's fine, but this is when she was a child and children all have ASPD traits which is why they diagnose ASPD at adulthood cause it's not fair to say that them as a child is the same as them as an adult.

[@emilyau8023]

She was a child. She didn't have control like she does now.

[@emilyau8023]

She was a child. She didn't have control like she does now.

[@Privatenospying]

Be kind, brave and open minded invite Dr. Drew

[@alexandern8hgeg5e9]

30:45 I don't think there is such a concentration in her family. It seems to be widespread over the whole population of the world and can happen in any family but when it happens it's just one person and then nothing for quite a time.

[@MrDominic600]

Lol, if only you knew…

[@Starfish2145]

I’m surprised she got married and had kids.

[@emilyau8023]

We are basically like neurotypicals. Why is that surprising? The only things that separate us is being emotionally and socially stunted. I'm talking about the highly functional ones by the way. The ones that want to do harm typically use charm and charisma. Why is this surprising?

[@emilyau8023]

We are basically like neurotypicals. Why is that surprising? The only things that separate us is being emotionally and socially stunted. I'm talking about the highly functional ones by the way. The ones that want to do harm typically use charm and charisma. Why is this surprising?

[@cherylrleigh1912]

Our understanding of the prevalence of sociopaths and psychopaths remains obscured by limited research and the reluctance of individuals with these traits to seek treatment. A significant portion of the available research is conducted within prison populations, leading to an erroneous assumption of their prevalence primarily within such environments. However, it's imperative to recognize that sociopaths exist across various societal contexts, not solely within the confines of correctional facilities.

[@jem2250]

This sounds very left brain right brain. There is a brain thing going on. Just as in ptsd , where cognitively we understand but have not emotionally processed, but here there is not even the feeling. Fascinating discussion.

[@Basically8888]

I’m disappointed. When I saw the title of this video I assumed it was Meghan Markle.

[@mac-ju5ot]

Just finding out that if u say no to the sociopath has been interesting for me . I know the psychopaths take no as a challenge enjoy the game

[@LeoOrlando-yd2ut]

And how can I be 100% sure that you are not a sociopath, Katie “lives in an elite bubble” Couric?

[@artiste335]

Katie Couric has tremendous empathy and always has.

[@Poppy-yx8js]

I have a sister I think is a sociopath. I don’t know her well. She’s a half sister. I feel sorry for her. She doesn’t have any remorse for terrible behavior and seemingly no insight into how bad her behavior is.

[@Poppy-yx8js]

In addition to that I was targeted by a sociopath for 30 years- I thought she was borderline but I know now I was wrong. I found out things she was doing behind my back that caused permanent harm to me that is really awful. It’s difficult because they seem to make justifications for the harm and be able to convince more uneducated people they are victims.

[@Poppy-yx8js]

And I know Patric from someplace. I know this face.

[@emilyau8023]

If she doesn't become smarter like me, she will be a low functioning one.

[@shecat1964]

Come on the milkshake thing! Who would not have either done it or thought about it? I dispiose thoughtless selfish people.

[@BigSky000]

Patric might benefit from working with an intensely focused, persistent Gestalt practitioner utilizing hypnosis. Could start with deeply remembering when their ferret died, focusing deeply on seeing what happened to her sister.

[@aclem8246]

So if social emotions are learned emotions that means we all start out as sociopaths as children. No compassion, no empathy, totally self centered. Then we learn that society requires conditional love if you want to fit into society. I don't know if this is entirely true because we have the capacity for love just as other animal species do, so the seed is already in place. We just need to learn to interact with others effectively.

[@emilyau8023]

That's correct. Children have high traits of ASPD and that's why they can only be diagnosed with conduct disorder. ASPD is diagnosed at adulthood because the traits of ASPD typically decrease when people get older.

[@AetheriusComics]

Can't a person both be a psychopath and a sociopath?

[@emilyau8023]

No

[@tearose3763]

Give me a break, shes an actress but not a sociopath. Shes clearly gotten attention by this label and feds on creating a narrative.

[@junelbug]

What happens when/if "milkshake lady" discovers this??!!

[@Argelius1]

They really need to *rename* these disorders - for better or worse, they sound so similar so people are always going to be confused about the distinctions.

[@cherylrleigh1912]

Sociopaths exist because there's a necessity for their unique traits. Highly empathic individuals, while deeply attuned to emotions, may not always possess the emotional resilience required for tasks that necessitate a lack of empathy. This contrast sheds light on why leadership roles often find better alignment with individuals who possess such traits.

[@jannetteberends8730]

I have Alexithymia, I don’t really experience my emotions. That makes empathy difficult, because that’s an emotions. But there are a lot of people that like to discuss their problems with me. A friend told me once why. She said that everyone is having pity, but I analyze and discuss the problem. And that also.helps. So everyone has its place and function in this world. I’m a person that likes to analyze problems, and like to entangle them. (I don’t solve them)

[@maracuja888]

All sociopaths are narcissistic, but not all narcissists are sociopaths. Cutting is usually associated with Borderline.

[@garyjackson2333]

Do you think this disorder is part of the personality of "daredevils", ie, people who seek out thrills with dangerous activities?

[@AnimosityIncarnate]

Nope. ADHD.

[@Peaches328]

What are the differences in behavior of a sociopath and psychopath. Which is more dangerous and closer to antisocial behavior.

[@emilyau8023]

The terms sociopath and psychopath are not real diagnosable terms. ASPD is the diagnosable condition. You shouldn't really seek out people with ASPD, but sociopaths are on a case by case basis cause there are safe ones who will even be a better person than a neurotypical. I'd say psychopaths are not company you want to have unless transactional.

[@RM-xf9gi]

I love this lady! Batman.

[@Arete37]

Your levelness emotionally=equanimity. Many of us struggle for that.

[@ladygreeneggs]

Dumped it in. Who hasn’t wanted to do something like this.

[@livingintheforest3963]

I think we ought to stop labeling people and throwing them away in our society it’s wrong to say with someone’s narcissist or their as sociopath so now nobody should go near them or ever give them a chance to change or get better. I think it’s very wrong because people are capable of change. They may not be able to change their brain, but they can change their habits and their behavior. It just takes a lot of work and we should give people that chance.

[@alexandern8hgeg5e9]

1:25 If they behave the same, maybe they are the same. Also the difference is meaningless if they behave the same. 1:40 There is no easy way to differentiate between someone pretending to have learned to have an emotion and someone who actually has this emotion. 1:55 Which might or might not be true. I think the actual difference is habit. If you are like that, stay away from "bad habits" or you will end up in prison.

[@multivariateperspective5137]

Her description of the pressure and relief is very like addictions or lust.

[@60clow]

These diagnoses are weaponized which defintely hurts those who want to be treated. Psychologists don’t want to work with people with “negative” disorders because they see them as untreatable. 😢

[@Vypersprofoundpondering]

Yes, and that is totally ok because WHY wouldn't you right? It's not at all our fault for not being able to feel empathy. If YOU are not able to feel empathy how is that our fault? Because it's more of a psychopathic behavior to keep someone confined or behind bars, isn't that morality? Do animals create solitary confinement within other animals? no, it is because they are understanding free-will as it is naturally ordered, and maybe we are the gift from nature in the natural evolution process, Basically I feel as though psychopathic behavior relies more on biological function, The earth rebalancing neurotypicals because it's necessary to gain our more logical or "neutral" perspective in order to maybe slow earths destruction rate down more.

[@complexmindsimpleman6642]

Sociopaths deserve some understanding while psycopaths deserve fear and distance? But both are dangerous to others? End result being neither are condusive to social interaction.

[@anneeastaway2311]

👍