A320 TOGA LK stall

This video shows how easy it is to “unintentionally” override Airbus protection. It took around 1’30’’ to destroy the plane. Severe turbulence could help a bit to shorten the time. Autopilot and protection are there for a reason and are more efficient than us, humans.

[@aviatorgator4754]

I'm an A320 pilot and I see what scenario you are creating there. The VLS and alpha prot creeping up that quickly on the speed scale from the bottom side and the airplane going to AFLOOR / Toga LK is reminiscent of an AOA protection kicking in due to AOA probe disagreement (maybe one froze or got stuck). The airplane then will automatically go Alpha floor and Toga lock for stall protection (even though a stall was not imminent), and worse, it will start giving nose down inputs which will be extremely difficult to manually override. This happened in real life to a Lufthansa A320 crew. Anyway, we have a flight operations bulletin that specifically deals with this situation. You have to leave one ADR on, and turn two ADRs off, which will then force the aircraft into alternate law. That is the procedure. Then you can level the aircraft manually using known pitch/power settings and take the airplane out of Toga lock. Above FL300, aim for about 2.5-3 degrees on the attitude indicator and about 83-84% N1 power (assuming CFM) engines. That's the policy at my airline, and then of course back it up with the QRH. But what you created here is a situation in which the pilots are NOT doing what's necessary to recover the aircraft. IF that really is your purpose, fine. But please don't make it look like an A320 will just lose control and crash in 1'30" as you are implying. Not true.

[@therublixcube3052]

complex shit here.. XD

[@ronbusdriver319]

being an A320 driver myself may I add following the correct procedure Abnormal V Alpha Prot, if the one ADR kept on is receiving incorrect data from the AOA, hence faulty, may it generate an erroneous Stall warning? I say yes...things would turn out complicated.

[@twiff3rino28]

Thanks for the writeup. Just out of curiousity, has this recovery method been in place since '87 when the A320 was introduced, or was it developed after the DLH incident you mention?

[@johnjustjohn8168]

ok you have training in that.. kurtikistan airlines crew of A320 dont :) ..

[@rigor.m9422]

But the whole point of the flight envelope and alpha floor is that even the dumbest idiot couldn't stall the a320, so, arguably, airbus havent done their homework

[@galar6519]

Hearing the over speed Alarm and the Stall alarm at the same time is the most terrifying situation you can be in. And having TO/GA LK. It gave me goosebumps

[@freeamericanairlinesadvertiser]

Air France 447 moment

[@tudorginga]

Unfortunately I don't see any comment that remotely fits this scenario. In the following I shall try to provide my own POV on the development on the exercise: - The scenario begins with the aircraft in level flight, 25 deg bank turn, with AP and A/THR engaged - Autopilot is disengaged, at 00:24 an overreacted pull-up (undesired descent correction) engages the A. FLOOR function. After the A. FLOOR disengages, the A/THR commands TO/GA thrust until A/THR is disconnected (TOGA LK). Very interesting is that the angle of attack did not reach the A. FLOOR engagement threshold. Rather, it most probably activated due to its other engagement condition: sidestick deflection is greater than 14 degrees nose up, with the AoA protection active (FCOM DSC22_40-30 ALPHA FLOOR PROTECTION) - Next, I can see that the sidestick is held at its right mechanical stop (bank angle limited to 45 degrees when AoA protection active, active since the speed is below the top of black and yellow barber pole) - FCOM DSC27-20-10-30 BANK ANGLE PROTECTION - The large pitch drop at 00:35 is impossible to having been FbW initiated, since by freeing the sidestick at this time would cause the aircraft to enter a climb, due to it attempting to maintain V ALPHA PROT. I reckon the sidestick is being now held fully forward and to the right. - At 0:40 the pitch attitude protection limits the pitch angle to negative 15 degrees - At 0:41 the bank angle protection limits the bank angle to 67 degrees - At 0:42 the high speed protection engages. Even though the sidestick is being held fully forward at this time (pitch not rising from negative limit even though high speed protection activated), the pitch authority will smoothly reduce to zero by the time speed reaches VMO+16/MMO+0.04 (FCOM DSC27-20-10-20 HIGH SPEED PROTECTION). This is immediately aparrent at 0:49 when the pitch "jumps" from -15 degrees to -9 degrees AND. At this point, most certainly pitch authority is zero. However, and also according to FCOM, if the sidestick is being held fully forward the aircraft will significantly overshoot VMO/MMO. The pitch authority being zero does not necessarily imply that the speed will stabilize at that value. - This situation continues until 1:07 seconds, when the speed reaches Mach .91. Upon reaching Mach .91, the active control law will revert to the Abnormal Attitude Law and remain in this law until the aircraft recovers into the flight envelope. (FCOM DSC27-20-20 ABNORMAL ATTITUDE LAWS). Most important to note in this control law: no protections (except load factor limitation) is active and without auto-trim. - This reversion is made at 1:08 seconds, at a Mach number of .913. This seems also to be the Mach number at which the aircraft stalls due to the shockwave forming over the wing (high speed stall). Notice the aircraft falling on its left wing while also excessively yawing toward the left. This is reflective of the high AoA protection (also incorporating high speed stall protection) not functioning under Abnormal Attitude Law - No attempt to recover out of the situation is ever made, and the speed continues to rise until Mach .92 and an indicated airspeed of 389 knots when the aircraft structure is compromised

[@tudorginga]

And, unfortunately, I don't think it's their fault. As much as one is responsible for his development as an airman (skills & knowledge), one cannot ignore the continuous push of the airlines to cut costs in the most undesirable area there can be: crew training.

[@jesse00pno]

Excellent explanation! Thank you!!

Thank you for the explanation! I'm just a simmer interested in aviation so it wasn't clear to me what the pilot was doing after the initial stall. I was wondering if he was trying to level the plane and failing even though the speed was increasing (but why?) or if he was indeed forcing the nose down and banking to the right. Your explanation points to the latter - this would explain the dire development of the situation. What is that supposed to illustrate though? Even if we assume the pilot is somewhat incompetent, why would he do this? It doesn't make sense, especially the banking?

[@tudorginga]

The only point at which any maneuver displayed in this sequence makes sense is the moment when you assume it is all done in a deliberate manner in order to facilitate the development of this precise scenario. Talking about the bank, for example: it comes right before the A. FLOOR. Being banked and pulling would cause a faster increase in overload values (G) and thus a faster engagement of A. FLOOR. Not that pulling vigurously aft at FL380 would not have triggered A. FLOOR either way even in level flight. As for what it's supposed to illustrate... it's hard to say (for me at least), but I'm gonna go with an explanation I've seen somewhere in the comments: deliberately flying into a thin portion of the flight envelope in order to show that you can crash the plane in Normal Law. Guess what, wish for something hard enough and it might as well happen, eh? Being an A320 instructor, I cannot regard a pilot as being incompetent, it goes agaist the purpose of it, but rather lacking the experience needed to recover from this upset. In the air, anything can happen (especially after a somatogravic illusion, or something of a startle factor) and so I wouldn't be surprised if someone found himself one day in this situation (we are excluding criminal acts here), but it would be important to at least note that at any moment during the development of this exercise a recovery action can be initiated in order to recover the aircraft to normal flight envelope.

@@tudorginga Thanks, it all makes sense now. What marvelous times we live in BTW - a lame ass simmer can get a detailed answer about an A320 flight scenario from an actual A320 instructor - thanks again! :D

[@thesalandarian3314]

Ryanair: so I just started barrel rolling to France lol

[@AtlanticSimulations]

Ryanair does not operate airbus

[@oofnoof1193]

@@AtlanticSimulations r/whoosh

[@i_mixr]

Ryanair doesn’t fly Airbus… 🙃

[@aecelik]

@@i_mixr 🤓

[@Mineral2290]

“AWKCHUALLY 🤓 Ryanair does not operate any Airbuses in their fleet according to my CALcUlaTionS. So study before you talk about AIRBUS ALRIGHT PAL?” 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓"

[@phomaisogood]

Ryanair pilots: Nice stunt boy. We should learn that

[@alexandroacha8123]

stall stalll stall stall

[@markofexcellence5209]

Thanks, Airbus! I didn't even know I was stalling. I was wondering why I felt weightless and everything was flying around!

[@patryk3537]

@@markofexcellence5209 Due to the overspeed, the 'Fire Alarm' avtivates indicating overspeed, the stall alarm activates before the plane starts to pitch down, but it loses speed and goes on - 29000ft /m. That's the reason for the alarm to activate, it doesn't mean everything will fly at first, but when the 29000ft/m is on, the G forces gets lower and they possibly go on 0G.

[@thorstyraccoon4216]

Patryk r/wooosh

[@kiwikiwi2483]

@@thorstyraccoon4216 Leave him be, that was good information

[@andreluispinheiro9039]

*Stall in French accent*

[@Adrianlovesmusic]

1:08 dang

[@ashwath2207]

Ryan air pilots training video

[@lolroffel7238]

Ryanair hasn't got any Airbus planes

[@Adrianlovesmusic]

ASHWATH ASTHANA you mean EasyJet?

[@kjcomputer]

ooo i wnat to seel ryanair do a new landing the call "STALL LANDING"

[@felixpj8h704]

I hope they go thru what to do in these kinds of situations.

[@ashwath2207]

@@felixpj8h704 yes it's a landing training

[@djpablish6270]

0:05 For those who don't understand what it says Here is the English translation: *This video is intended to show the behavior of the A320 when the pilot bends too much protection at high altitudes.*

[@757simmer7]

I fucking love that thumbnail LMAO

[@artyjaycayairlines]

Yes

[@darthslather89]

i am so damn terrified of the warning sounds

[@yuvigamesonmobile6950]

Just imagine looking down and seeing this on your FMA followed by barrage of alarms.

[@arkan144abdussalam8]

Thank you for flight with ryanair!

[@aaron8862006]

Not sure this is actually very damning. It's a thin portion of the flight envelope... Do dumb stuff in that region in any aircraft and you're going to pay.

[@TheHVACkid]

aaron8862006 ummmm I think this was a flight simulator

[@alexsheppard8331]

@@cintektok no ewe

[@manbeau2379]

The analogy for drivers for this video: Look, a wall, let us drive into it! This car is crap, it drives into walls!

[@gabrielfranciscorp]

It might as well be the last thing you'll hear.

[@matatanXtreme]

0:53 my ears lol

[@zakksrage]

Classic case over pitching the aircraft an full throttle

[@manusmacgearailt667]

How can an aircraft stall at 340kts? was this in coffin corner at cruise altitude, assuming the red bar that comes down on the speed display means overspeed, how can you stall while over speeding?

[@Morrov]

It's called a high speed stall. Air goes supersonic in certain places, behind the wings for example, which creates a ton of drag, and it results in a stall.

[@thejoyofflying182]

An Airplane can stall at any speed. Not a low or a high speed creates a stall, but the exceeding of the critical angel of attack.

[@youkofoxy]

It can be a sensor malfunction.

[@grigorig8403]

0:42 Pilots: check out ECAM People: wait! you forgot to close your doors!

[@connor3580]

Classical landing of Ryanair)

[@FreshRobloxTroller]

0:42 OVERSPEED WARNING when the airspeed reached

[@aviationgaming1564]

Whoop whoop, pull up, whoop whoop, pull up

[@migueldreamchannel6450]

nice one

[@jasonlee3392]

What does the monotonous tone indicate at 00:38 seconds?

[@LucaPed94]

I thinks its the "level bust" or altitude deviation warning which tells the pilot its altitude is deviating from what it was originally assigned to

[@markofexcellence5209]

It is telling them that the plane is deviating from the set autopilot altitude

[@matthewtrainsandlifts]

Mark of Excellence aka. Altitude alert

[@mr.nibblenips4231]

That's a normal Polish landing.

[@yolopolotyur]

Well I do read Polish so I understand it

[@dainsleif7916]

What does it say?

[@artyjaycayairlines]

What does it mean???

[@sesanti]

In a real world situation, could they not turn on Direct Law and manually recover the plane?

[@captainfeelgood5128]

The plane goes to abnormal attitude law. The plane could be recovered in the initial stage, but it was not the purpose of the test

[@user-fp6iw2ex1x]

@@captainfeelgood5128 Alternate law is good enough for this actually

[@Nawaf7fen]

When it started saying stall I thought someone was calling

[@MhkhQ8]

نواف

[@MhkhQ8]

؟

[@radeksvoboda7629]

Yes, Stallin was calling.

[@renn2332]

the plane was almost upside down

[@PengembaraBiruMinecraft]

01:10 Thumbnail Go Brrrrrrrrrrr 🗿

[@noahgroenewoud4754]

I hope this is a sim-

[@Mr.President]

1:18 I dropped my coca-cola

[@aviation37.]

Bro never posted age 💀

[@ricardoscultetus6386]

Ryanair pilots: nice decent

[@matty8780]

Nothing is done "unintentionally" here. I mean, of course you can outsmart the protection with stupidity.

[@AEht_]

In reality, the pilot doesn't operate the a320's wire wrap protection system to automatically change out to a controlled situation

[@Kaipeternicolas]

Scary

[@chadkintz]

Guys will do anything to avoid clearing that scratchpad message.

[@ernestbrown6834]

Airfrance 447 was here

[@hzmicide1738]

Was this is a simulator or are you really doing this in a real plane?

[@janintelkor]

think 2 times

[@emanuelstrachan6224]

Why it shows TCAS passing FL270? ND sais TCAS and GPS lost, Is it because in direct law?

[@MONRFin]

Emanuel Strachan no. It's just because they turned off 2 IRs (IR 3,1) to force aircraft into alternate law which made aircraft to lose the corresponding GPIRS positions. The TCAS has also been lost because apparently it was set for transponder 1 which receives data from ADIRS 1. Same with weather radar auto tilt function.

[@taejunchang396]

"Brain Explosion" mhm.

[@user-uw1gr2ib6v]

0:42

[@fachrialwaan6397]

Pull up... Pull up.. Pull up........

[@regeonX]

RIP

[@patryk3537]

Overspeed

[@marcbrady7241]

UnPetitPatryk ok, they also stalled

[@artyjaycayairlines]

So?

[@MBUER]

I don't know why plane suddenly started to drop with high-sink rate and why the stall warning activated even the aircraft seems to have huge airspeed (The right screen indicates the speed limitation(?), 260 at first of this video).

[@MsFly974]

+MBUER It stalls at an high speed beacause the plane exeed the maximum altitude that it can fly threw, it's at 38 000 feets, to high for an a320, it think it is called "coffin corner",

[@MBUER]

+Mister Fly This is the first time that I know about "coffin corner". It seems to be same as the crash of AirAsia 8501. Thank you for your advice!

[@MsFly974]

you're welcome :)

[@ElBantosClips]

I believe it's called a high speed stall, being at a pretty high altitude, then suddenly going down at 20k fpm, then trying to pull up makes the plane exceed the critical AOA.

[@ElBantosClips]

+kiereniskwl *ACCELERATED STALL* not high speed, sorry :)

[@CameTo]

This is hard to do in purpose in the bus.

[@kl6379]

Just dont trust the system when its stall. Recover the aircraft, manualy

[@captainfeelgood5128]

As long autopilot is in, it will handle the upset much better

[@artyjaycayairlines]

@@captainfeelgood5128 WHAT DOES THE TEXT IN THE VIDEO MEAN???

[@morsznetik]

@@artyjaycayairlines polish

[@artyjaycayairlines]

@@captainfeelgood5128 ???

[@doabarrellroll69]

@@artyjaycayairlines the text is in Polish

[@chickensupremez4555]

0:57 plane a320

[@novemberdelta1282]

no shit

[@donutsaviation2543]

novemberdelta1 he was just saying it was an a320 mate

[@novemberdelta1282]

@@donutsaviation2543 then why state the obvious?

[@truesonic341]

Airfance stall must means you get more miles on your credit card

[@manbeau2379]

There is a clause in there that says miles only apply after the completion of the whole flight..

[@danaazri]

QF72 belike:

[@saidheerajjanagam1734]

Have a look on 0:42 it's engine fire alarm not stall and later it calls "stall stall stall stall stall"

[@AustriaTV]

Its also overspeed, which is triggered if the aircraft is too fast

[@saidheerajjanagam1734]

***** Thanks Mate

[@windshearahead7012]

Saidheeraj Janagam LMFAO thats the overspeed

[@Adrianlovesmusic]

Pilot Bravo ~.~

[@derchang3522]

That sound is master warning, it can be activated in many situations, incuding overspeed and engine on fire

[@flightgearHD]

how does one stall at 320knots and falling?

[@balto2455]

a stall is not about speed, but about the angle of attack...and in a turn its even worse

[@flightgearHD]

NDABEZITHA yeah I didn’t see they were at 33k feet lol

[@manusmacgearailt667]

@@balto2455 Isn't it kind of scary that by applying normal stall recovery procedures you can inadvertently destroy the aircraft? also could you explain this scenario in simple terms for those of us who struggle to understand fly by wire logic?

[@balto2455]

@@manusmacgearailt667 what do you mean? how can applying stall recovery procedures destroy the aircraft?

[@islamicschoolofmemestudies]

This does not go well with Air France 447.

[@manbeau2379]

THis is not what happened to Air France

[@aungaung-pn2et]

Biting.pilots bro😘😘😘😘😚

[@storm_4659]

*XL airways flight 888?*

[@junrenong8576]

XL airways crash because (a) Frozen AOA sensors (2 frozen, 1 working, but by logic computer accepted the values of 2 frozen AOA and reject the AOA sensor with correct value) (b) When the pilot reduced the speed of the aircraft the auto trim trimmed the aircraft towards a nose up position to maintain level flight, up to the moment the computer switched to DIRECT LAW (c) When approaching stall speed, with landing config, the AOA should increase. However, the AOA sensors were frozen. (d) Frozen AOA sensors' reading didn't fit well with the algorithms of the computer, thus in this case, Airbus computer did the right thing and switched the aircraft to DIRECT LAW. (e) Direct Law was activated (USE MAN PITCH TRIM displayed) and the pilot, either didn't notice OR forgot to trim the aircraft nose down, only push the stick forward, but the trim was at a high nose up position, thus the aircraft continue to pitch up, stalled and dive into the ocean. TL;DR these are two different scenarios.

[@BozonCechowania]

nie rozumiem. pokazuje przekroczenie prędkości, a słychać alarm przeciągnięcia....co jest fałszywe i dlaczego

[@BozonCechowania]

@Adam Rędzikowski ale alarm przeciągnięcie nie pojawi się jeśli prędkość nie spadnie poniżej minimalnej....A właśnie brzmi alarm overspeed. Dziwne..kilkaset godzin spędziłem w symulatorach. Dziwne. Ale zawsze latałem Boeingiem. Może airbus ma trochę inaczej

[@someone3.2007]

how tf are they stalling if it appears that they're overspeeding

[@aspecreviews]

Stall is Angle of Attack problem, not a speed problem.

[@plane_____spotter1591]

The fly by wire helpful

[@airbott1091]

Fly by wire is garbage and dat auto trim tho dats made for FIGHTER JETS

[@pietropolo4945]

@@airbott1091 you are definitely not over the age of 5 lmao

[@nativeafroeurasian]

Normale Landung der Flugbereitschaft

[@theVakhovske]

AF447....

[@DavidAlonzo0621]

Bonnin

[@athikanmamun8890]

Airfrance pilot belike

[@artyjaycayairlines]

el?

[@sukhoi6944]

Стол стол стол

[@elizabethshoemaker3454]

the title should be,"1 minute annoying stall sound".

[@erenovic99]

Only simulator !

[@futurepilot6749]

A320

[@artyjaycayairlines]

So?

[@futurepilot6749]

@@artyjaycayairlines i don't like

[@nickymouse1617]

Если сильно постараться,то польский не такой уж и сложный

[@egiagustina]

👍

[@julx1787]

But what hapened exactly ? Wind?

[@Pedro_absa]

I think that is a sim, the pilot just wanted to have fun

[@tomstravels520]

Faulty AOA sensor I think

[@Qwerty-101]

Is that real ??😨😱

[@dreamliner3122]

Kunaon eta mang?

[@spoonlimited5717]

teu paham

[@weazenvevo]

please, CPL $$$???

[@nelsonpitogo3419]

The Aircraft Stalls When Overspeed Happens!

[@tomatosoupwoo]

Yes because the body of the aircraft can only take a certain load.

[@manbeau2379]

NO! An aircraft will happily overspeed into the ground without stalling.

[@shamseddinbzeek1417]

Poor handling cut the power level the wings and smoothly recover

[@eph3672]

They did that on purpose, they did not try to recover.

[@travelerc2735]

Can someone explain

[@artyjaycayairlines]

.

[@user-xr6tu8yy1x]

فن

[@nguyenvananh6800]

Virtual cockpit

[@patryk3537]

You expected them to do this in a real plane?

[@MrKoirakanava]

Patryk they do

[@nakqalzaki]

@@MrKoirakanava Of course they do. But by the looks of the situation in this video, clocking over Mach 0.9 and falling over +15k ft/min, I doubt the aircraft survive. Probably disintegrated halfway down.

[@thesalandarian3314]

....

[@carlosalexandrino1326]

Crasch

[@artyjaycayairlines]

crasCh?

[@alexbaysha2586]

Данунах...

[@HafySalamSeruSeru]

Jatuh Kah Pesawatnya?

[@rohanbaty3155]

Yes hafy the plane crashed . All dead.

[@artyjaycayairlines]

?

[@maxchan6215]

The altitude is too high for A320.

[@FlugSim]

sure?

[@maxchan6215]

Yes I'm sure. In bad weather the maximum altitude is about 35000.

[@markofexcellence5209]

A320 has a ceiling of 398

[@OortCloud]

Max Chan I’ve been 40000 feet before in an A320...

[@Phandoraaa]

@@OortCloud dunno about that, i flew an A320-216 myself n its maximum ceiling is FL398...

[@irsalrafiabd_]

BIARIN AJA TERUS SAMPE JATUH

[@marioehrlich6136]

Nice

[@artyjaycayairlines]

?

[@riyasbinyousuf6598]

It's a simulator

[@migueldreamchannel6450]

phew

[@kamilchmielewski3810]

I po polsku

[@TheBlindingWhelk]

0:40 bANK ANglE

[@Ben_Stewart]

This is why I fly Boeing.

[@peteconrad2077]

So you’re dumb enough to I think Boeing aircraft can’t fail?

[@dietermuller6356]

🔥 Fake! I do not speak Polish, but this is 100% unlikely. As a fromer A320 and now A350 first officer this is a provocative behavior, which led to the control loss!🚫⛔

[@tomstravels520]

A Lufthansa A320 did something similar but not so sudden with frozen AOA sensors causing plane to pitch down due to Alpha Prot and Max moving up

[@ozgurhamsici9293]

why are they installing so sophisticated electronic alarm circuits to an aeroplane instead of just putting another mechanic spare velocity-speed sensor ? maybe just another air fan ? then no stall will happen as much as I guess. it is ironic that a technology wonder of million dollars like this just crash because of broken velocity gauges ! and another one. we have g force sensors even in our cheap smart phones but they don't put a g sensor to this million dollar planes. with a g sensor - an artificial intelligence auto pilot can easily recover from g-force recovery errors. I should be on o f the engineer working in the factory of these planes. humanity would be free of many problems .

[@Admiral_Jezza]

In other words, stick with Boeing