Ableism, Discrimination Or Ignorance?

Thomas Henley reacts to The Thought Spot's video on what ableism can look like as a late-diagnosed or undiagnosed Autistic adult; within the video, Thomas seeks the boundaries of what could be classed as Ableism, and his thoughts on its usage in online spaces
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[@raven4090]

I think whether or not someone knows you're autistic, if they go out of their way to be mean to you, they're straight up a BAD PERSON. They could ASK me why I'm acting a certain way, or if I feel a certain way that they're thinking is negative, and I'd tell them. But instead they bully me.

[@Kimjay464]

I was late diagnosed and one of the first things I did was buy some fidget toys. I felt that I didn’t have to hide my stims anymore. My family accused me of “trying to fit into being autistic”. It took a while before they realised I had been masking and hiding my symptoms for so long

[@blondequijote]

“ Trying to fit in by being autistic. “ - normie regards thinking we all have cool powers or something and ppl want us around.

[@gothboschincarnate3931]

I had a nervous breakdown and my brother referred to it as a vacation....

[@blondequijote]

@@gothboschincarnate3931 and if u made it back without murdering maybe it really was a mental vacation. I for one don’t think ur a bd person if u neeeded a menta vacation from other ppl’s bs

[@gothboschincarnate3931]

aye... I had a stressful job. Now im on permanent vacation. but it was necessary. It was the only way i could heal. Thought i was healed up from partial OBE PTSD (downgraded from partial OBE C-PTSD) but a girl inspired it all over again.... and theirs the enterprise sliding into the nexus again.....i keep seeing that. She has Borderline Personality Disorder and i cant be with her. I just realized why i left my body, once, when i was with her. I might not have figured it out with your help, thanks. (@@blondequijote

[@siennaprice1351]

@@gothboschincarnate3931 well maybe you should stop having nervous breakdowns. It’s not healthy. You need to find ways to manage them, it’s simple. Feeling nervous is a bad thing, and it shouldn’t happen. I get so angry and kind of grossed out when I feel nervous or even sad or depressed because I feel like it’s a bad thing. Even though I am trying to listen to others when they tell me to not bottle up my emotions. A couple Thursdays ago, some of my pent-up emotions did come out, mainly in anger. I do get it, but at the same time, you shouldn’t have nervous breakdowns.

[@siennaprice1351]

I have Septo Optic Dysplasia and CPTSD. My Septo Optic Dysplasia caused me to be born totally blind, it also caused me to be on the autism spectrum, and it caused a few other things. I’ve had ablism when it comes to my blindness. They either don’t believe me, they underestimate me, or if they see me doing a certain challenge, they’ve told the person I’m with, ‘she’s not blind.” Just recently, I was climbing an obstacle course at an indoor trampoline park, and I was navigating it by myself, and I swear a kid told my staff, “she’s not blind.” I haven’t gotten ablism for my CPTSD yet, but I’m sure I will. Same for my autism. I’ve also gotten shamed, laughed at and mocked for some of the things I do because of being blind and autistic, but that was by a caregiver.

[@gothboschincarnate3931]

.....and maybe that is why i met you out in the eithers..... normally i would say i would meditate on it...but ive already done that. so its true then. Emotional pain and suffering can throw you out of your body.

[@siennaprice1351]

@@gothboschincarnate3931 could you please clarify what you mean? I do not understand what you’re saying at all? Are you saying I have no right to feel the way I feel when people say these things? Or are you saying you can relate?

[@siennaprice1351]

@@gothboschincarnate3931 also, emotional pain and suffering are a bad thing. You’re not supposed to have emotional pain or suffering. You’re supposed to prove to the world that you’re strong. There’s no such thing as crying, sorrow, sadness, anger. Life is all about 0 obstacles, 0 struggles, no vulnerability. We’re not allowed to have those things. We as a society are supposed to be strong inside and out. For a long time, I’ve bottled up my emotions because I feel like I don’t have a right to feel the way I do. For a long time, I haven’t given a f*ck about how I feel.

[@robokill387]

@@siennaprice1351 Emotional pain and suffering are normal, healthy and part of life, especially in a very bad situation.

[@siennaprice1351]

@@robokill387 I try to take those emotions away from myself in order to prove to the world that I’m strong, tough and capable of dealing with things.

[@Teddy143Fresa]

A person can be ignorant of their ism's while perpetuating them. So yes I think a person can act racist, sexist, and or ableist without realizing their actions. In fact I'd venture to guess that most ism's are acted out ignorantly

[@AnnaCatherineB]

You wrote 2 sentances that said what i took a whole paragraph to say. Lol 💫 Cool & concise

[@Teddy143Fresa]

@@AnnaCatherineB :) is a useful skill in a world without many listeners. Appreciate you. Be well

[@leilap2495]

I love the thought spot and her authenticity. Does it seem strange to anyone else that I am not aware of the amount of my masking and am not sure if others can tell? Yesterday I had an opportunity to provide some autism care tips to some new pediatricians (not my kid’s). As I spoke with them, I had this momentary jarring realization of: “If I’m a mom of autistic child, is it tipping them off to my quirks?” “Can they tell?!!” I really want to be open and fully unmasked. I have such a guard/wall up. Oof I want to be fully open about it, but fear the affect on my job now and prospects in the future. I guess the guarding is much the mask.

[@raven4090]

I've realized I'm not aware of the extent I mask either. I know that when another human is present, it automatically turns on, though. Sometimes, depending on who it is, I can loosen it a little and not worry so much about keeping up the act. I can be myself around 3 people on this entire planet. I sometimes wonder if people can tell, too.

[@lauraburystedmundsyoga8231]

@Daathiel except the masks autists use tend to not be consciously chosen - more a survival instinct.

[@Catlily5]

​@Daathiel The Doors?

[@Catlily5]

When someone is harming other people it is not ableist to call them on it. If they are making people feel mildly uncomfortable then it is ableist to call their behavior out. The tricky part is how uncomfortable does someone else have to be before it is warranted to call the autistic person out?

[@nate2838]

Overall I appreciate the insight and thoughts brought to this. So much of what you both express resonates with me. Especially when he talks about unintentional gaslighting, even well intentioned as it can often be. 1:02:00 Recognizing traits and even connecting it with autism still doesn't help them understand the totality of what it means and how it affects the individual they are interacting with, or necessarily help them to be any more accepting of the differences.

[@DandyXandy36]

52:23 I constantly have nightmares about work 😢

[@raven4090]

I do too. In fact, when I was being reassessed for disability, I told the lady in charge about that. I said, "If my disability is going to be discontinued, please send someone to kill me, because I can't do it anymore. Physically, mentally, or emotionally - and I don't want to live on the streets." She was nice, though, and it continued.

[@thuggie1]

i like the sound of the word weird. i have unusual fixations

[@autisticautumn7379]

I don't mind being weird .Been a goth-/hippie type of person all my life😅

[@AnnaCatherineB]

The thing about bigotry is that it exists outside of the bigots inteligence or awareness more often than you think. For instnace homophobia exists even in (especially in) spaces in which there are no gay people. Same for mysogyny, fatphobia, etc.. Ableism describes the way our society has norms and taboos which deem traits such as autistic traits (even in undiagnosed people) as bad, negative, broken, and unacceptable. This is obviously a problem and should always be pointed out, especially in retrospect. It helps us process the trauma we have been through. Trauma due to traits we didnt even know were autistic at the time, but that neurotypical people learn mostly subconciously through media and propaganda are bad. In the US especially there is a disgusting promenance of eugenicist rhetoric that is considered commonplace throughout all walks of our lives. Ableism is commonplace and each and every person takes part in unknowingly holding up these aweful standards onto other people. It absolutely is ableism, whether someone knows youre autistic or not. Ablism is often not personal or intentional, but pervasive and subconcious. Its important to point it out if we want to change society.

[@Agentlefox]

I think that a lot of autistic people arent black and white thinkers as the connotation would imply. Instead, it seems to me, based on experience and anecdotal evidence, that it more often stems from our common need to understand the why's of what we're doing and how it fits into the bigger picture of our lives and systemically.

[@E.Pierro.Artist]

So, what makes it ableist is when you are discriminating against a disabled person because of actual disability and/or traits resulting from it or perceived disability and/ or traits resulting from the perceived disability, and when that discrimination is either explicit or implicit and with or without one's knowledge of how such a disability does or does not present, and with or without premeditation, especially as to cause the disabled or perceived disabled to lack resources, accommodations, fair treatment, respect, etc. as compared to others that are not disabled or not perceived disabled, etc. And yes, someone doing something that is ableist is in fact an Ableist by virtue of what the word means and common usage thereof.

[@AmaranthineIntrigue]

54:59 Yes! I just wrote about this on another channel.

[@Catlily5]

You don't deserve to be treated badly for being different even if you are not autistic.

[@fabuloussloth8670]

I’ve been told: “Don’t be such an aspie!” How else am I supposed to act when I have the diagnosis? I recently started to use AAC (Augmentative Alternative Communication). Meaning other ways to communicate than speak with the mouth. In my case, a text-to-speech app because I’ve struggled with stuttering / word block tics and sometimes being silent, my whole life. I can’t always speak, even though I know exactly what I want to say. Which is very exhausting: the stress that someone is waiting for me to talk and I get frustrated internally because I can’t say what I want to say, having to repeat myself, not always being understood. The reaction was: “I want you to speak with YOUR voice. Are you going to become mute?” Which was very hurtful because I finally found an easier way to express myself than using a pen and post-it notes. I don’t use the app because I’m “lazy”, it’s to reduce a lot stress that I feel on a daily basis, making myself understood easier and faster. Forcing me to speak will only make it worse, not help.

[@jodimeadeblue]

I love how calm, caring, and analytical, your videos are. You have a beautiful mind and way about you.

[@Catlily5]

I don't want to be normal either. People called me weird as an insult. But better weird than boring.

[@meryluk]

2nd that. I like the word weird and quirky.

[@amandabrook5089]

I do sales and I have anxiety everyday and sometimes I go home and beat myself up about how weird I am but I'm pretty decent at it and it gives me more time at home and alone

[@turtleanton6539]

Yes

[@laradesautel3013]

I really love this girl!

[@fabuloussloth8670]

How do you get the ♾️ sign next to the profile name?

[@KatjaTheAutiArtist]

❤❤‍🔥💔💜💜💜

[@kellychuba]

[@tobydandelion]

Bias that exists due to societal expectations is still bias. "Ableism" doesn't need intent, the same way "racism" doesn't. These words aren't synonymous with "evil", but "ignorant". Like, just, try to learn about other marginalized groups, too. There's a lot we can teach each other about marginalization.

[@Catlily5]

Some racism and ableism is ignorance and some is evil.

[@melindasaddler559]

Sadly, I know someone who is "acting" to get sympathy. I have sympathy for autistic people because I have cptsd that I thought was high functioning autism and I was struggling until I got myself tested But, unfortunately, this person knows a few facts about autism and is trying to manipulate others. It really upsets me because people who really autism struggle just to function.

[@chelseapaine6290]

I’ve gotten about five minutes in to this, and here’s what I think. Your attitude in general towards this woman is dismissive and aggressively discriminatory, which leads me to believe this is more of a gender issue. She is over explaining because she has perpetually been accused of lying, her affect being off, intentions she did not have projected onto her, and her words twisted into knots to please the abusive commenters on KZbin. Point blank, that’s not something you’d need to deal with. But my main concern here is that you’re going to go on for an hour about this topic, yet never come to the actual discussion. On a basic level, is it not ableist ON ITS FACE to be openly discriminatory/rude/cruel to ANYONE, for ANY reason? Like, I don’t care if you’ve decided to be rude to me to impress someone, to feel superior, or anything to do with you. (And I don’t mean you you. I mean the collective “other person” you) Whatever perceived weakness I have that you’ve decided to exploit for your amusement is a classic hierarchical design that puts us in our “place.” As autistic people, particularly women, we don’t see “place.” We see ourselves as equal to anyone else, in the TRUE sense of the word, not whatever meaning NTs ascribe it. And that’s where almost all of our problems come from. Not participating in the hierarchy. If you’re at the top of it, that’s fine. But for those closer to the bottom? Blasphemer! Heretic! The efforts to press us into line get rougher and meaner, the trauma intensifies, and we break. We become this person over explaining and over apologizing for even existing. So yes, even in ignorance it is ableist. Because the first reaction to anyone acting “strangely” shouldn’t be to mock or to insult. It should be to ask questions, to learn. Ableism is the default.