Accused of CHEATING in Europes Largest 40K Tournament - BUT I Can't Tell You Why!?

I was accused of Cheating in Europe's Largest Warhammer 40,000 event - after my opponent had run out of time on their chess clock. The TO decided to run away?
Support me and the channel!
🔴 KZbin Member ► bit.ly/2ZZmvvr
🔴 Hellstorm Sub Website ► bit.ly/3lSk6tZ
========
🎲 Dice and Objectives and more ► bit.ly/3mWdr38
Shirts and Clothing ► HellstormApparel.com
========
WATCH ME LIVE ► KZbin | Every Monday and Wednesday at 18:30 UK time
LIVE BATTLE REPORT | Every Thursday at 19:30 UK time
==========
Community:
Twitter ► bit.ly/3gkndKa
Discord ► / discord
Insta ► bit.ly/3lTZIZw
========
For Business, contact [e-mail]
#HellstormWargaming #Warhammer40000

[@ChapterMasterValrak]

I believe him, you grassed on my Drednought weapons.

[@HellstormWargaming]

Maybe if you stick to being WiZzwyg you’ll be fine

[@sn_dc]

😂😂😂😂

[@real-lomas-chenko]

@@HellstormWargaming 🤣🤣

[@damienwatson9102]

@@HellstormWargaming don't listen to val. He's a very toxic person haha

[@jacobguevara3708]

@@HellstormWargaming You got nerfed worse then the Votann.

[@PleasantKenobi]

No one should be shitting in anyone's coffee. That is uncalled for.

[@HellstormWargaming]

I've seen the places you go for a brew so I wouldn't be surprised.

[@jacobguevara3708]

If he's that worried about cheating, he needs to keep track of his own points.

[@Hurricanelive]

Guy wanted to cheat you 100%. Don't let yourself be bullied by cheaters.

[@HellstormWargaming]

I think if id not lost a previous round I wouldve stood my ground more - but after that it felt a bit pointless?

[@jacobguevara3708]

They really are corrosive and if allowed it can spread pretty fast.

[@Tehquall]

@@HellstormWargaming totally get your point mate. Whilst it means loads of stress for you and putting yourself out there, it might prevent the guy getting away with it again with someone who can’t hold their ground as well. Props for telling your story, hope the rest of your games were more enjoyable!

[@ArhainHainar]

Mikey lost to a chess clock is how it reads

[@HellstormWargaming]

I lost in life

[@xommul79]

It’s really useful listening to bad tournament experiences so that people with less experience can learn how to deal with difficult situations. Let’s not forget some people do cheat and don’t want to lose but hopefully those people are fewer and far between the good players.

[@System-Update]

What if you were in Costa and tried to use a mug from Starbucks to proxy for a dreadnaught? What then? Where does it end?

[@HellstormWargaming]

ASk Valrak. He still owes me

[@System-Update]

I heard that Valrak promised your opponent a fully painted Blood Raven's dread he had going spare if he would slow play and then make a fuss. E. Z.

[@paultonks]

I think what you did was perfectly fine mate, doesn't matter if your a you tuber or not, your allowed to be annoyed and express that on social media. The way you dealt with it, you was very reserved and you could of done so much more really.

[@RobbSavag3]

Shout out to the TO who didn’t do his job literally the only reason for his existence there, encouraging bad sportsmanship 😤 aye well get em next time champ you can’t keep a good King down aye

[@HellstormWargaming]

Probably running to get a Costa right

[@RobbSavag3]

@@HellstormWargaming 😂 yeah you right

[@callumwilliams5095]

I definitely agree that Lgt needs more TO's for more than 700ppl and you are right on the chess clock pretty sure it's actually in event pack......

[@NoMayonaisse]

Didn’t know timers were used. Learned something new!

[@bripa3890]

Every time I hear a story like this, it makes me not want to play in tournaments. It would be awesome to go see everyone's nicely painted armies, but I don't care much about winning or losing, I just like to have fun, people like that dude would probably just kill my love for 40k

[@Mortys_Toilet_Attendant]

Is that the worst experience you’ve had Mikey? It’s stories like that that make me glad I’m playing the in the same close friend group for my 40k life!

[@HellstormWargaming]

Probably, never been accused of falsifying a score that leads to my opponent then falsifying a score himself

[@patrickbaron829]

Unfortunately we've all faced opponent's like this. Don't let it get to you dude! I've never had the pleasure of playing you but, I already know I'd love to face more opponent's like yourself. The TO that walked away half way through a rules dispute was a massive oversight and shouldn't have happened. The fact zach and the team tried to redeem themselves is a step in the right direction is the best that can happen out of a shitty situation. Haters gunna hate! Power through 💪 Keep producing great content. Keep putting smiles on faces. Keep being you dude 👌

[@letstalkwargaming9202]

great video. Bucket hat man was interesting to play.

[@HellstormWargaming]

Shouldda seen it coming with the crazy dice roll shenanighans

[@gumbalina4816]

Should have gone for the petty revenge and bought him a coffee from Costa but have a shit in it first

[@Deathguarddave]

We might not have met but you seem like one of the most straight forward people on the scene. You're fine, like you know you are, good thing to call it out.

[@Jimmy-pf7kr]

Your Starbucks/Costa comment is epic 😂😂

[@HellstormWargaming]

I'll be honest i prefer Starbucks too. Less shit in it :P

[@Josco83]

The only thing you did wrong was letting the problem player win. He got what he wanted and his bad conduct was rewarded.

[@ladycubed5605]

You should just have played by ScamRak rules and had a 2++ for all your units

[@Pershoreify]

a vid on how to use a chess clock would be really valuable

[@HellstormWargaming]

Deal

[@DalmarWolf]

I think it might be wise to go forward with it, especially since someone else had an issue with the same player, it could save someone else from having to deal with that guy another time.

[@barryhercules7588]

Most salty moment is "its not like they gave me a free ticket"

[@ruramen8]

Nice video. What do you thing about fire raptor gunship being Iron Hands? I played a couple of time with it, tbh amount of buffers we can give it makes it an enormous brrrrr threat. Raptor goes brrrr opponent goes whoops here we go again 😂

[@HighSparrowsTheHobby]

Just typed in mani cheema and James Kelling into search box. First two videos were from auspex tactics “that guy guides to warhammer”. I guess that says it all.

[@philbatchelor9325]

only 6 TO's for the whole tourney? That is mad! you'd need more than double surely?!

[@eddieg82]

I have heard of tryhards who bring crazy lists and has tons of complex rules to confuse their opponent, but you ran into the rare lazy tryhard who just shows up and says "I win".

[@Buckshot81]

Unfortunately this situation is happening all too often in 40k.

[@HellstormWargaming]

I dont pretend this is an isolated problem, but its definitely FEW and far between imo

[@Azzo114]

@@HellstormWargaming Good to hear! I play at a local club with the same players and I've been close to playing 2 tournaments (had to cancel weeks ahead because of work) and seeing lots of stories/drama like this feels bad but its good to hear about them but also seeing that its not as bad and as common as it seems.

[@thedamneddice575]

of he didn't keep track i would call the TO over and be like look, I've been keeping round by round scores, he hasn't bothered at all. his clock ran out, I managed to force a 3 pt win. he's accused me of miscoring and now claims to have miraculously won the game by 2 points

[@thedamneddice575]

I had a tournament luckily against a friend in the final, the top 4 were playing to win and second. top table me and my mate 2nd table 2 random. we played. we both tracked. we finished. he'll we've played each other so many times we were talking each turn out and reminding each other if we were forgetting something (not normal I know but 2 mates for you) we got to scoring and there was a minor discrepancy he was scoring by hand, me by itc. we went through turn by turn and found it. problem solved. to came by and asked if we needed help and we were like not yet, just trying to spot a discrepancy. the dice tray down and are clear all my rolls go in there, if the dice are not in it they don't count, and then if my opponent doesn't have 1, offer them the use on the same rules. haven't met an opponent without one that has turned it down yet

[@CB-sf9mx]

I think we have a classic case of man-child. Competitive 40k can really bring out the worst in people.

[@TheSixYardBox]

This is why I don't go to tournaments.

[@mistamomo]

Reminds me of a game that I played on TTS vs a guy who I wont name, but his name sounds like...Chapter Master Nutsack. Anyways, one thing that stood out to me was when I shot at a unit of his Marines he played out in the middle of the board sans cover because, and I quote "DEY ARE ARMOURED WIV FAIFH IN THE EMPEROR". I shot them with Eradicators, and he tried to roll his 3+ saves with them. I mentioned that they had no cover, and should be saving on 6s and he just said "NAHT TWODAIH". He kept rolling 3+ saves, and when questioned would breath heavily into the mic and mutter something about the Iron Cage? I'm not sure what he meant, but it has stayed with me since the match. Hope the situation gets resolved, Mikey.

[@alexclare5352]

I wanna go to the LGT next year, just hope I don't come across this kinda thing. There for fun and a cheeky holiday.

[@Halrian-Christopher]

Ok so if the TO doesn't demand chess clocks or enforce them. your shit out of luck.

[@HellstormWargaming]

Chess clocks were advised to be used by the Event pack :)

[@Halrian-Christopher]

@@HellstormWargaming im sorry you had a bad experience

[@maijin007]

You don't understand why it happened? Because you played 40k with a douche bag. This sort of eventually is bound to occur when we go into the world and play with people we don't know. Not to mention that judge to player ratio (1:100) was just insane!

[@freeRadioArmageddon]

He plays space wolves, I think you already won...

[@alpharius2098]

i remember my.good rolls i once killed a bane blade with the g man before his first round of nerf in 8th i rolled max damage he could it was amazing

[@lieutenantgothmog4370]

Who was it? Sounds like a Patric San Filipo type thing lol.

[@tompayne4945]

I was right with you 'til you were offered to make a formal complaint and didn't bother. Not everyone has the platform to get this shit out of their system. One P***** S****** put me off tourny play almost single handedly. This guy will do it again too....

[@HellstormWargaming]

The formal complaint was towards the judge, I reported the player 👍🏻

[@tompayne4945]

@@HellstormWargaming Ah, fair dos! If a tournament allows for or mandates clocks, they should really provide a link to a rules pdf for them, ahead of time and accessable during play, to avoid this even needing a TO though. This might be a learning experience for you own... (Does that make it tax deductible?👏🤓)

[@IdioticSynergy]

I wanted to see a massive fight :( 0/10 not angry enough

[@Azzo114]

I belive in the honest misstake. Refs was tired from the earlier debackle and you asked a clear and "easy" question, they answered it clearly and was going to the next thing. To bad the opponent was a piece of work but thats not on you nor the TOs fault.

[@MoistVonLipwig]

Bad grass lol poor Mikey

[@Joyfulcheese]

Why let them get away with it though, yes it's a ballache but they'll never learn and you'll be robbed of what you played for.

[@Dunston205]

You have every right to speak about poor sportsmanship, platform or not.

[@DevilsBrushGaming]

It's a sad thing when you run in a player like this. Of course mean you giving loads of your time and doing the players job by keeping track of there scores complete disgrace. 100% joking aside as a TO myself you don't leave a table until both players understand. I can't see anything than a fun game with yourself don't let these people put you down. Christopher DBG

[@Sc1fi]

Winning by timing someone out is the worst way to win, especially if the rounds started late. Equally if you agree to play on the clock you should know the consequences. It sounded awkward as fuck, especially if you rushed your last turn for the sake of the recorded scoring. Having said that I witnessed your mate Jay also timing someone else out, spending along time questioning elements of his opponents army (base size, colour requirements, rules of the army and making rules queries on his opponents time ect.), starting deployment after 45 mins of talking, then timing his opponent out mid turn 3, something about it seemed like a well worn path, even more so now that Ive heard you talking similarly about timing your opponent out. This is not directed at you, but using a chess clock can legitimise more underhanded plays... fuck all scummy slowplayers.

[@smc5666]

You should be proud I think. Whenever you "complain" you couldn't be more polite and respectful 👌 true gentleman.

[@HellstormWargaming]

I’m so British it hurts

[@smc5666]

@@HellstormWargaming you're the best don't change!

[@SandmanofTerra]

♥️

[@PopcornSkorpion]

Shame that stories like this can scare new players away from tournaments. I'm sure it's 1 in 1000 but it does feel like these are the only people we hear about in the tournament scene. Sorry you had to face a butthead like this.

[@HellstormWargaming]

Defintiely one in a thousand, shit happens sometimes, and theres more good than bad

[@Pershoreify]

if you don't track the score you waive your rights to complain about the score. pretty obvious really

[@kemal2900]

ban from all tournaments for this SW guy!!!!

[@moncey1120]

What's a TO?

[@HellstormWargaming]

Tournament Organiser/Event Judge :)

[@marshmallow1680]

I like the approach the LVO judges have. Challenge a judge's ruling? Instant Yellow Card. Harsh but at least a judge's ruling is treated with a bit more respect...

[@lancelloyd8762]

Of course you can talk about it. You didn’t mention names and brought up good from the tournament too.

[@liamhartley-wright8739]

ah mate, I've been to a load of tournaments and luckily not had a bad experience but think I'd lose my shit with someone wasting my time. we're moving little plastic models around a table for feck sake lol. also iron hands are a pain in the arse, only because I can't beat them

[@real-lomas-chenko]

This the one at steel city mikey?

[@HellstormWargaming]

No.

[@real-lomas-chenko]

@@HellstormWargaming got to where you mention it.

[@Lioris13]

This guy needs picking up & warning! How can there not be a ASBO like system for problem players, I've had issues with Sour players & it just ruins then atmosphere

[@cymrodave]

Sorry you had to play a guy like that Mikey, it’s such a draining experience playing “that guy”. People like that ruin this hobby.

[@DmanDrums]

I remember playing a live poker re-buy poker tournament. I had just lost an all in and needed to re-buy chips. The cashier was walking past my table and I asked for chips but she either didn't hear me or ignored me, I said "chips" again but louder but got nothing so I stood up and yelled "CHIPS" so loud that the whole room turned around and looked. I got my chips, I know it ain't your fault but next time yell the fucking joint down bro, get what you want even if it makes a scene. ❤

[@geoalpharius396]

Just give him 1 on the sportsmanship score, and explain why you gave him 1 on the screen. Your friend should of done the same.

[@Redcoat86]

Nah - you’re right to call out poor sportsmanship and bad players. If they don’t want to be shamed publicly they should quit being assholes. Easy fix.

[@moncey1120]

Wow, I can't believe you're trying to steal Valrak's content

[@ChapterMasterValrak]

[@HellstormWargaming]

The audacity 😂

[@moncey1120]

@@ChapterMasterValrak I got your back boss

[@HellstormWargaming]

The irony that Val has both stolen the joke about, as well as steals content ideas is the perfect circle jerk.

[@moncey1120]

@@HellstormWargaming you should be used to it by now. Can't trust those Northerners

[@capinchaos4367]

Comment for the YT Gods

[@Accidentalcrofter84]

Would it cost a lot to hire some ex-teachers or exam adjudicators or something for these events? Mature professionals who work with enforcing rule sets in some way, they will be used to dealing with children who cheat. I have yet to experience the joys of a tournament. It's hard to tell what goes through peoples heads or motivates their actions though, this poor man child may have had a terrible childhood where his parents never tolerated failure, or some people just don't take getting beat or failing at something very well, it's like a personal attack to them, perhaps too many toxic male friends around him? Shame he took an opportunity to make some new friends and enjoy himself in his spare hobby time to cheat and lie.

[@smc5666]

Magnus did nothing wrong. Last time I went to a tournament was 3 years ago and it was mostly a good time but people that actively do negative crap is such a bummer.

[@78Showboat]

Score your own game if you aren’t happy🤦🏻‍♂️

[@crabpee]

I dont know much about the tournament, but if your opponent had issues with the clock and it was a optional thing. He should have just declined lol. You both would have had a more enjoyable experience and in the end if you're not fighting for a placing why bother lol. Mind you I am not a top placing player and dont take this stuff as seriously as some.

[@deanbrereton1809]

Guy sounds like a massive nobhead, fair play, I would have got another TO. You can voice your opinion, feedback is important for things to improve

[@Dave-jh7rj]

Was there Mikey, for the round 2 drama. I commend them for eventually giving the 0-0. I’m not a TO like yourself, but it’s pretty cut and dry. Times up lads. Pretty obvious given the body language who was cheating there too. As for you opponent, plonker. Shame people like that are about. It’s a hobby we are all enjoying in our own time, with plastic toy soldiers and dice. I disagree about the points though, mainly because I went 0-5 and I’ve been clinging on to 271 points not being too bad somehow. We don’t even have a mega chippy down here Mikey, please don’t take this away from me 😂

[@dustinpearson9108]

Wow that judge just left. That judge is a piece of work. LARGEST TOURNY

[@ADhammer]

This wouldn’t happen at LVO I would hope. You handled yourself well.

[@stephenspooner2908]

Did you sign anything before saying you wouldn't talk about your experience? I'm assuming not as they would want you too if it was all good... If not imo you should be using your platform to better the community, part of that is calling out bad practice and poor experience to inform how things could be changed for the better surely. To some extent name and shame is important, otherwise why do we have rating on just eat? No one wants a bad burger.

[@oc8473]

I think you were justified in our annoyance and the argument that you shouldn't talk about it because you have a platform is silly. The problem was inevitably the minimal amount of judges, that seems crazy but I suppose it's hard to find them

[@HellstormWargaming]

Eh, clearly a cock up on their part. I hope they improve next year as theyve improved a lot of things since last year

[@oc8473]

@@HellstormWargaming Them staying receptive to feedback will be nothing but good, at the end of the day this was all caused by a player losing their perspective on having a fun game and causing all this, 100% gamer moment

[@HellstormWargaming]

Thats what we call bad gamer etiquette

[@chrisyc2k]

You are allowed to voice your opinion on any platform, if you was saying how great a time you was having I’m sure they would have allowed it.. but due to a failure on their part they get all uptight. Tuff really, not your fault you have social media exposure within our hobby

[@zlaqonion2902]

The problem with what you did is that you agreed to a score with your opponent and then complained about it after. Since you hadn't scored it wrong, you shouldn't have changed to appease your opponent. But since you did, it's annoying that you would then publicly complain about it on Twitter.

[@HellstormWargaming]

True enough, but I tried to have the situation resolved at the time with a judge, but they walked off mid issue. At that point I gave up

[@kainiemi4895]

I've played a few tourneys, never had a bad experience. Every single opponent has been reasonable and good spirited. Hopefully people getting into the hobby don't let things like this hold them back. This is not the average experience, it's an outlier for the Top Tables.

[@aaronsomerville2124]

I continue to not understand why people play tournaments. You power through games all day and don't even have a chance to enjoy them. You play with WAAC players and have to maintain constant vigilance. The tables probably don't look that good most of the time because the terrain pool is stretched, and you're probably also dealing with models that have a hasty or perfunctory paint job. You end up with matchups that make no sense to the lore. And all to prove what exactly? It's not like it's Chess or Go. You're hardly going to be invited to write a commentary on Sun Tzu because you won a toy soldiers tournament. Or are they offering cash prizes? I don't understand.

[@plethoranz]

My opinion on the matter aside. If you've had a bad experience with a player, or there's something not quite sitting right, then please contact a TO of the event. You may feel that it might be a one-off, however it also may be a pattern of behavior. TO's can only enforce what they have information for.

[@Vissiun]

Aren't you the guy who was match fixing at one of the events run by the same TO and got away with it?

[@Ng-zg4dq]

Weak.

[@ScorpusFlexSlotCarRacing]

The real problem is that wargaming isn’t fundamentally designed to be a competitive game, it’s kind of like a square being forced into a triangle slot, and that chess clock is just a wedge trying to force that square through.

[@ryansta]

Judge was right in continuing to walk the room though, as you only asked to clarify a ruling not to clarify and observe to arbitate any disagreement as a result.

[@mahubunting]

40k needs to be less wishy washy on clocks. Make the rules clear and REQUIRE them. If people have a hard time with that, they can play narrative in their basement. Clocks are FAIR FOR BOTH PLAYERS. Learning to play on clock is EASY.

[@MekBoooooi]

I'm on the your opponents side. If you're already winning or both almost out of time why not call the game and score there and then play it out for fun? I can't imagine going to an event let alone travel for my opponent to not let me play til the end.

[@HellstormWargaming]

That’s not really how chess clocks work sadly

[@chazwiseman5326]

Wow what a western world problem, there's people who are starving in the world, children being abused and your pissed over a silly little game, get some perspective

[@dustinpearson9108]

Wow your so kind and that prick wouldn't stop cheating

[@Retribution83]

What's the guy's name?