Acid Damage OPTIMIZED: A Chromatic Orb D&D 5E Build!

[@comradewarners]

Since many people have commented about this I decided to make it a pinned comment. Dragon’s Breath CAN be cast on a familiar. Not only can it, I think the spell was specifically designed for it. So that’s why I didn’t explain it in the video. I thought people knew that. Here is why: ​​⁠ Dragon’s Breath says this. “You touch one willing creature, and choose Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Poison. Until the spell ends, the target can take a Magic action to exhale a 15-foot Cone. Each creature in that area makes a Dexterity saving throw, taking 3d6 damage of the chosen type on a failed save or half as much damage on a successful one.” This isn’t the casting a spell through a familiar rule, this is just how the Dragon’s Breath spell works. The only requirements are that it’s a willing creature. This could even be cast on an NPC, a fellow party member, or a pet cat you have. Here is also a JC tweet about it. 2024 didn’t change any of this. x.com/JeremyECrawford/status/943256832969019393?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E943256832969019393%7Ctwgr%5Ef731416e725013c87493c65b79a98e999accf3df%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sageadvice.eu%2Fcan-you-cast-dragon-breath-on-your-familiar%2F

[@AllNighterProduction]

Since owl can fly if it shoots the cone straight down it can turn that cone essentially into a 15 foot diameter sphere making it easier to hit more targets.

[@comradewarners]

@@AllNighterProduction OOOOO, I didn’t even think about that! That’s awesome!!

[@deadku6150]

looking back on this, u can go 2 levels into warlock, take acid splash/ sorcerous burst as ur cantrip (I would do acid splash), and take agonizing blast with it, so ur aoe acid splash can do (at level 8 minimum), 2d6+8, which is cool even if you hit like 2 people

[@comradewarners]

@@deadku6150 so I thought of this, one of the reasons I didn’t do this is Draconic sorcerer already gets to add the charisma bonus, but the problem is that in the sorcerer ability it’s specifically says, “your sorcerer cantrips.” And Warlock it specifically says, “your warlock cantrips.” So you couldn’t stack them sadly.

[@deadku6150]

@@comradewarners Looking at elemental Affinity currently, it says: "You have Resistance to that damage type, and when you cast a spell that deals damage of that type, you can add your charisma modifier to one damage roll of that spell" so it would work to stack the damage, but would not benefit from innate sorcery, you can get acid splash from pact of the tome, 1 spell save isnt that bad on the aoe, but they do stack in this case because the level 6 DS feature does not specify sorcerer spells

[@comradewarners]

@@deadku6150 Ah!! I just reread it and you’re right! I guess when I first read it I only read the Warlock one and assumed the sorcerer one. It would for sure be worth taking away those fighter levels I feel like. Especially because you could pick up spells like Armor of Agathys and the like.

[@deadku6150]

@@comradewarners combined benefit of getting a "stronger" familiar with warlock, the flyby on owl is great of course, but you can get something like sphinx or imp to be a little tankier and shoot straight down like how that other commenter said

[@sohkaswifteagle2604]

5 ft radius is 5 squares. instead of shooting it in the corner of the square shoot it in the middle of the square. it goes 2.5ft into the other square so in the middle of every adjacent square in the shape of a + Diagonal square still count as 5ft for DnD 5e purposes, so we have a squared circle. But the corner squares only have 1/4 of their area covered by the spell effect. And in the grid rule it states that if a square is at least covered by half an AoE you consider the creature inside that square affected. SO every creature within the + signed would be affected if you target the middle of a square.

[@WanderingRagabond]

For single target damage, Witch Bolt and Scorching Ray with Transmuted Spell could go pretty hard, no? Maybe the Witch Bolt becomes a chain of acid connecting you to the boss?

[@comradewarners]

Scorching Ray would do big damage, and would for sure do more than Chromatic Orb for single target damage. The benefit of Chromatic Orb when it comes to AOE at higher levels is that every target it bounces off of has the chance to take the same damage as every other target. With Scorching Ray the damage would be split amongst the various targets you’re hitting. The thing about the new Witch Bolt is the damage only scales with the first round of damage. Every round after the damage is as if you cast it at level 1. At lower levels though it does a TON of damage.

[@clarkside4493]

Because most Artificers lack good blasting power, I wonder how well this is viable for them? I'll have to try it some time on a straight Artificer.

[@hammert0es]

I don’t understand the levels in valor bard? Is this just to get the “cantrip as an extra attack” thing? Seems like a big investment.

[@comradewarners]

@@hammert0es Yup! The goal is to do as much acid damage as possible. You can only cast 1 spell slot per round so since we are already quickening chromatic orb you might as well cast an acid damage cantrip with your breath weapon. Also, there aren’t any spells I desire from sorcerer at higher levels. Bard gives you an extra free casting of sorcerous burst every round plus another instance of adding elemental affinity every round and you can use your Dragon Breath weapon. You also get access to healing spells and the aid spell to buff your familiar. What would you do instead? No wrong answers, just curious! 😄

[@sohkaswifteagle2604]

how to really calculate the DPR of your chromatic orb: let's assume a 60% hit chance and a 80% bounce (you can put your number after I"m using those number to show you how to calculate your DPR) and your chromatic orb level 3 deal 5d8 damage and can bounce a maximum of trice (dealing 4 times his damage) For a single bounce it's easy (only one legal enemies no possibility for bouncing): we have 40% chance to deal 0 damage and 60% chance to hit the first target so 60% of 22.5 damage = 13.5 damages. For 2 bounces (only 2 enemies so can bounce a maximum of once): still 40% chance to miss and deal 0 damage. Then 60% to hit at least once, but we need to divided it in 3 possibilities - bounce and hit (80% x 60%) or - bounce and miss (80% x 40%) or - no bounce (20%) Since both "no bounce" and "bounce and miss" have the same effect (no extra damage and no extra bounce) we can add them together and that probability is the probability to hit at least once (60%) mius the probability to hit twice So we just need to calculate the probability to hit twice Those % are multiplicative. So 60%(to hit the first time)x80%(to bounce)x60%(to hit the second time) = 28.8% chance that you will hit twice. 60%-28.8% = 31.2% chance that you hit once So 40% chance to deal 0 damage + 31.2% chance to deal 18 damage once + 28.8% to deal 18 damage twice 40%x0 + 31.2%x22.5 + 28.8%x45= 19.98 Then the 3rd bounces (3enemies so can bounce a maximum of twice: Same thing so 40% chance to miss + 31.2% chance to hit once + 28.8% to hit at least twice. But we need to divide it into the same 3 possibilities using the same logic as previously. But this time those probability are multiplicative with the second bounce hitting. So the probability to hit at least twice (28.8%) bounce (80%) and hit a 3rd time (60%) = 13.824% to hit trice. 40%x0 + 31.2%x22.5+ 14.976%x45 + 13.824%x67.5 = 23.0904 damages Now the 4rth bounce (4+ ennemies) 40% chance to miss + 31.2% chance to hit once +14.976% chance to hit twice + 13.824% tohit at least trice, But we now need to divide it into the 3 possibilities: so 13.824%x60%x80% = 6.63552% to hit 4times. Meaning we have 7.18848% to hit trice. 40%x0 + 31.2%x22.5+ 14.976%x45 + 7.18848%x67.5 + 6.63552%x90= 24.583392 damages Now I didn't took into account advantage in my calculation (switch the 60% for 84%) and I assume 60% accuracy which mean I targeted an AC 15 with a +7 to spell attack roll (but you have +6 since you also focus on your constitution) and I didn't include the charisma bonus in damage So readjuste your numbers using your build but I guarantee you that chromatic orb will deal significantly less damage then what you advertise. I mean just compare to fireball using the same 3rd spell slot. - Fireball deal 8d6 damage so 28 damage per target to Chromatic orb dealing 22.5 per target - save for half damage compare to your chromatic orb which if you fail to beat the target AC you deal 0 damage - Then if the first monster succeed on his saving throw, the other monster caught in the fireball still need to do their saving throw, compare to chromatic orb where as soon as 1 mosnter succeed at dodging the attack (you miss the AC) no more monster risk being caught. Now if the monster are in a line with 30ft distance between each of them, fireball can catch maximum 2 of them while your chromaticorb might hit all 4.But when you include the probability to hit in the calculation, yourChromaticorb on averageon 4 target will deal a total of 24 damage (not per target, all 4 target together will share 24 damage on average) while my fireball on only 2 target, let's assume a similar 60% chance to fail theirsaving throw, 60%x28+40%x14= 22.4 PER TARGET. So2target wemultiply by 2 foratotalof44.8 damage. my fireball on average on 2target will do about twice what your chromatic orb will do on 4 targets... for the same spell slot. if you have allies in the middle of the combat fireball will hit them as well but you can careful spell or teach your allies to position better toavoid friendly fire.

[@comradewarners]

@@sohkaswifteagle2604 thank you very much for explaining the math. I really do appreciate that. The thing is everyone knows Fireball does more damage than Chromatic Orb. This is just to show what Chromatic Orb could do if you decided to use it instead. If all my build videos used fireball because it’s the highest damage spell it would get boring real quick.

[@Tommyd1013]

Your familiar cannot use a magic action and can only deliver touch spells. This would only work if you have a very easy going DM. The rest of the build is cool though.

[@comradewarners]

I already replied to a similar comment. That’s actually not the case. ​​⁠ Dragon’s Breath says this. “You touch one willing creature, and choose Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Poison. Until the spell ends, the target can take a Magic action to exhale a 15-foot Cone. Each creature in that area makes a Dexterity saving throw, taking 3d6 damage of the chosen type on a failed save or half as much damage on a successful one.” This isn’t the casting a spell through a familiar rule, this is just how the Dragon’s Breath spell works. The only requirements are that it’s a willing creature. Also it IS a touch spell. It’s just one that adds an ability to a creature. So you could cast this through the familiar even at range with the touch spell through the familiar rules. This could even be cast on an NPC, a fellow party member, or a pet cat you have. Here is also a JC tweet about it. 2024 didn’t change any of this. Nothing in Find Familar says it can’t make a magic action. x.com/JeremyECrawford/status/943256832969019393?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E943256832969019393%7Ctwgr%5Ef731416e725013c87493c65b79a98e999accf3df%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sageadvice.eu%2Fcan-you-cast-dragon-breath-on-your-familiar%2F

[@sohkaswifteagle2604]

round 3 is when damage pumps up... you know that round 3 most fight are almost over, even the big important BBEG fights. few fight eer goes over 4 rounds, and when reaching round 3-4 it's often just clean up duty finishing the few remaining HP left. YOu chromatic orb bouncing 3 times sure IF you hit you have 98% chance that it bounce, but you still need to HIT FIRST and that is 60% sure with incarnate magic you have advantage so 60% goes up to 84%. But you got 60% chance that all 3 hit even with advantage (if you were an elven race with elven accuracy you would have 83% to hit with all 3) and if you miss with the first one, you cannot even attempt the second or the 3rd bounce. (even at higher level with 9 bounce... you need to hit all 9 bounce and if you miss on bounce 3 you only have 3 bounce with your 9th level spell slot... I hope those 3 bounce were worth it when compare to my fire dragon sorcerer casting meteor swarm for 40d6+chararisma damage, or casting Wish to create a simulacrum of himself and now cast 2 spell per turn and hold 2 concentration spell at the same time. Then wow at level 5 you cast chromatic orb dealing 5d8 damage to 3 target??? you know most sorcerer no matter there subclass or race, at level 5 will cast fireball instead and deal 8d6 fire damage. I you want your combo to impress me number wise, at least be able to do better then fireball. Sure your chromatic orb won't damage your ally that rush in the middle of the pack... but between careful metamagic and teaching your ally to position themself smartly so you can blast AoE spell safely, I

[@comradewarners]

@@sohkaswifteagle2604 this is a build idea with the concept of only doing acid damage. If I wanted to make a damage build that only did the most damage possible I would’ve said that. Of course there are builds that could do more damage. This is just for fun my dude. Fireball is well known for being one of the highest damaging spells for its level. So I wanted to make a video that doesn’t something different. If I only did builds that did the most damage every build would be a wizard using scorching ray and conjure minor elementals. That’s super boring to me.

[@StMansur]

are you sure? you didn't 'roll' the matching die number, it 'became'.

[@comradewarners]

@@StMansur “when you roll damage for a spell you cast that deals damage of that type, you can treat any 1 on a damage die as a 2.” It’s specifically says “when you roll.” Also what does , “treat” mean other than act as if it is a 2. Damage die normally are “treated” as the damage you roll on the die. This is an exception. Just my take on it though.

[@davedelacey137]

Familiars can only cast touch spells….

[@comradewarners]

@@davedelacey137 Dragon’s Breath says this. “You touch one willing creature and imbue it with the power to spew magical energy from its mouth, provided it has one. Choose acid, cold, fire, lightning, or poison. Until the spell ends, the creature can use an action to exhale energy of the chosen type in a 15-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a Dexterity saving throw, taking 3d6 damage of the chosen type on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.” This isn’t the casting a spell through a familiar rule, this is just how the Dragon’s Breath spell works. The only requirements are that it’s a willing creature that has a mouth. This could even be cast on an NPC, a fellow party member, or a pet cat you have. Also here is a JC tweet about it. 2024 rules didn’t change anything about this. x.com/JeremyECrawford/status/943256832969019393?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E943256832969019393%7Ctwgr%5Ef731416e725013c87493c65b79a98e999accf3df%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sageadvice.eu%2Fcan-you-cast-dragon-breath-on-your-familiar%2F

[@sohkaswifteagle2604]

So much redundancy in that build it's ridiculous. Dragon born let you do am acid breath attack, Since you ever only have 1 attack you basically get 1 breath weapon as an action. Or you can cast dragon breath with your bonus action, and have a breath attack with your bonus action. Sure you could do 2 breath attack in the same round I guess. Dragonborn give you acid resistance, and dragon sorcerer at level 6 give you acid resistance Chromatic orb, even with your tricks remains a bad spell dealing weak damage and no secondary effect. casting sleep will remain a 1000 times stronger then your chromatic orb. Allowing the rogue and the paladin to have free critical hit on the sleeping target is so much stronger then those 3d8 damage. Sorcerous burst suffer the SAME problem as Chromatic orb, a weak cantrip doing low damage and no secondary effect. At least Acid splash can affect multiple target if lucky... But cantrip should be reserved for supporting spell: minor illusion to give free advantage to your allies (like the rogue) ray of frost to slow down the enemies (a slow that stack with weapon slow and difficult terrain and prone) allowing for kiting synergy groups. Having to pay a taxe of 1 sorcerer point (a resource that sorcerer have in very limited quantity) in order to cast an acidball is ridiculous I know the fantasy is soo cool, but WotC hate sorcerer and butch the class yet again. Sure it gave it nice gift, but those gift are useless without more sorcerer point and the sorcerous restauration we received at level 5 is not strong enough to compete with he other spellcasting class.

[@comradewarners]

@@sohkaswifteagle2604 thank you for telling me how to “Win” D&D my dude. I am far more interested in thematics than DPR, and I made a build that is thematic and does decent damage. Sorry that I disappointed you.

[@apocXIX]

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