The ULTIMATE Cloud of Daggers Build | NEW D&D 5E 2024

[@comradewarners]

So we have decided in the comments section that Cloud of Daggers can effect only 2 squares because of new AoE ruling in the 2024 DMG that states the effect must fill 50% of a square to effect it!

[@bocahcebol2815]

bro really said "Ryoiki Tenkai: Fukuma Mizushi"

[@comradewarners]

@@bocahcebol2815 LOL Exactly!

[@battwebb9137]

I can't help but feel you can achieve this with a starting build into Eldritch Knight, that way one of your attacks can still use a cantrip, and you can then dip into Cleric

[@comradewarners]

@@battwebb9137 the problem is it would require 7 levels, and if you went 3 Paladin, the rest cleric you would only be getting 7th level spells at max level. If you went 7 fighter the rest cleric you would only get 8th level spells at level 20. My build you have 9th level slots at level 17, 7 fighter 10 cleric you only have 6th level slots then. If you are okay with Cloud of Daggers doing less damage, and slowing spell progression then for sure. The one level Paladin dip gives us smites so that level is pretty important too.

[@brynwtsn]

Graze does your ability score damage, not proficiency bonus damage, on a miss.

[@comradewarners]

@@brynwtsn true!! yeah, that was a misspeak on my end.

[@James-kv3ll]

CoD in DnD 5e fills me with rage after playing BG3. It’s so small and you have to do weird things to make it more than just a mid single Target damage spell. Thank god we can move it now though

[@comradewarners]

Very true! I wish they made it a 10 foot cube. I feel like it wouldn’t be much stronger and would be way less confusing/frustrating. They could even have made it a level 3 spell.

[@MrMalicous1]

I have a Goliath clan, that this build would fit perfectly into!

[@brynwtsn]

I would certainly choose an epic boon over warcaster for that last ASI.

[@comradewarners]

@@brynwtsn yeah, there is probably some great options, my reasoning was mostly motivated by there not really being any good way to avoid dropping concentration besides avoiding damage in general, and since my build was motivated on a concentration spell I just slotted it in. You’re very right though! 😃

[@legendario2511]

I think it is a little bit of stretch to let the spell affect four squares, but it's open to interpretation because the wording is confusing. I wish they always just used radius. A good rule is allowing the square to be part of the area of the spell as long as at least half of it is included in the cube/radius. So two squares should be fine. Always good to talk to the DM first though

[@elfhririn]

Nah OP is right. Its been this way since points vs squares targeting was introduced. The only aoe with strict 'select a point on a grid' is spheres/cylinders/circles atm.

[@brynwtsn]

​@@elfhririnfrom the 2024 DMG: "Areas of Effect An area of effect must be translated onto squares or hexes to determine which potential targets are in the area. If the area has a point of origin, choose an intersection of squares or hexes to be the point of origin, then follow its rules as normal. If an area of effect covers at least half a square or hex, the entire square or hex is affected." So, spreading a 5-ft cube into four squares, means it actually wouldn't affect any of those squares.

[@brynwtsn]

How do you plan on having shield of Faith active most of the time, when you're using your concentration for cloud of daggers?

[@comradewarners]

@@brynwtsn it’s because at later levels War Cleric’s channel divinity lets you cast it without concentration.

[@brynwtsn]

@comradewarners good call. Totally forgot about that.

[@zukuu]

5f cube is a single hex imo. Otherwise it would affect 10f on each side, which is what a 10f cube is. You'd have to always have more hexes affected than what is written on the spell.

[@comradewarners]

I totally get what you’re saying. This is the evidence I have for otherwise. Two tweets from good old JC. x.com/JeremyECrawford/status/672590371835088896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E672590371835088896%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url= And this: x.com/JeremyECrawford/status/774037607097311232 So it seems it is DM dependent to an extent, but the spell was intentionally designed to effect more than 1 square rules as written. The reason I say this is they could have made it like Create Bonfire which reads: “the magic bonfire fills a 5-foot cube.” Whereas Cloud of Daggers reads: You conjure spinning daggers in a 5-foot Cube centered on a point within range. A “point” gives it the freedom to be anywhere. Just my interpretation of it though.

[@KarlMarkyMarxx]

The spell says "point." Not "space".

[@zukuu]

@@KarlMarkyMarxx Because "hexes" and battlemaps are not required to be used in the game so those wordings are very general (e.g. theater of the mind). If you do "translate" it to a battlemap with hexes, 5f = 1 hex, so 30f of movement is 6 hexes, you can't really argue then that 5f of something else suddenly affects 4 hexes instead of 1. It gets very inconsistent if you mix and match in particular when you consider radius, cube, spheres etc. I mean, of course you can, but that's definitely a table specific thing and overly buffs or nerfs other spells for no reason.

[@comradewarners]

Did you see my sources though? Why do you think it’s worded differently than Create Bonfire?

[@zukuu]

@@comradewarners Create Bonfire is not in the 2024 book for one and another is that it specifics "ground". A "point" can be casted in the air as well. Not that it matters on a battlemap for the most par tho as both are 5f.

[@James-kv3ll]

CLOUD. My god. CLOUD. CLOUD of Daggers. Sorry but the start of this video is triggering.

[@comradewarners]

Dude, you’re not alone. I edited to whole thing and noticed myself. 🤣 I already filmed it for like over an hour so I just went with it, especially because I didn’t trust myself to get it right in a second filming. I think the phrase “Cloak & Dagger” got me mixed up lol.

[@Jvstm]

Mate can you out 5.5 in the title and not 5e so I know to ignore it, please

[@comradewarners]

@@Jvstm it’s just it’s not officially called 5.5. It’s the “2024 rules” lol it says it in the thumbnail. Sorry

[@mjust7119]

Unsubbed for hallow cheese.

[@comradewarners]

@@mjust7119 I had a misunderstanding of how Cloud of Daggers AOE worked and in the comments we have agreed it can effect 2 squares and not 4. Even if your interpretation is that it effects 1 square the build still works. I get what you mean though. I try my best in every video to get the rules right, and I’m willing to admit when I’m wrong. I even said in the video, “Let me know if you think it works differently.” And I said, “based on what I’ve read I’m pretty sure this is how it works.” I understand though unsubbing. My future content I will try my best to have to work rules as written.

[@mjust7119]

@comradewarners brother, I appreciate this thoughtful reply. I was a bit catty in my comment, and you didn't have to do that at all. I'm sick of the Hallow/Channel Divinity combo and feel like it's gonna define the two types of tables for this generation of dnd. However, I shouldn't have taken that frustration out on you. My bad.

[@comradewarners]

@ totally understandable man, so I agree that the hallow spell for sure can become bad for the game, for example in my builds I try not to use Conjure Minor Elementals, but for this build specifically I felt like it was creative enough(using slashing weapons with a slashing damage spell.) that I thought it was fun to add to the build. It unfortunately does work rules as written, but yeah it for sure is a pretty crazy part of the new rules.