Acknowledging Biological Sex Should Not Be Controversial - - Maya Forstater and Helen Joyce

Maya Forstater is the claimant in a landmark test case, Forstater v Center for Global Development Europe, which adjudicated whether the protected characteristic of belief in the Equality Act covers gender critical beliefs. She founded Sex Matters and is a specialist in discrimination and gender issues.
Joyce’s 2021 book, Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality provides a searing analysis of the transgender debate. Helen Joyce recently left her position as executive editor of The Economist to work for Sex Matters, and brings a
wealth of knowledge about gender issues on both sides of the Irish Sea.
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#beyondwapth #timesupwpath #genspectbiggerpicture

[@dragonfire4244]

Anything with Helen I have to watch.

[@timbarry5080]

Same

[@TheNesbittExperience]

💯

[@BigDog366]

Agreed. Something about the almost surgically precise way she speaks, laced with wry humour, just strikes a chord with me.

[@dragonfire4244]

@@BigDog366 With every interview I learn something different from her that’s fascinating & makes absolute sense. I wonder if her husband ever wins an argument with her 😄. She gives me hope that we can & will protect women & children against this insidious ideology in the end.

[@barekicks]

Seconded. She has immense intellect and a way with words. Just so sharp and incisive with the right sprinkling of humour. I think she's my favourite voice in this entire movement (though of course there's a lot of amazing people fighting this fight).

[@fraserreal8496]

Thank god for these women and their years of hard work

[@annetteannette9205]

I second that.

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

@@annetteannette9205 Thank god there are now a few actual feminist reformers now that are not acting just out of self interest, pretending otherwise . same same

[@SuperKripke]

How do you know they are women?

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

@@SuperKripke For the majority of people that i know it is when you live as & are seen as , accepted as a women by women. Not too different than being brought into any group thru ceremony . Many cultures historically , still yet consider females women only when they become mothers. Ironic that feminists have always written , theorized thru modern culture ,writing that how women live are "social roles" constructed by patriarchy. I may listen to these women when they are logically consistent in their views not picking, choosing what they will take from society in a me me way . Its obvious "trans women in sport is unfair so that is why i have been against it for years not become of the female chromosome. Nuance exists for the aim of overall fairness whereas laws &, policies on the basis of sex only exist for the female sex by feminists identity politics to the exclusion of others including children, fetuses, boys, men .

[@SuperKripke]

@@non_ideological_transexual7414 Your answer is a little unclear. Are you saying that we can't deteremine whether these are in fact women if we don't know if they are mothers? I agree with you that if women agree that allowing trans women into spaces is a good thing then we should adopt self ID as a rule. I also wish to persuade more people that this is the case. Trans people don't have to deserve to be women though. The issue of sports is interesting. One should be sceptical anytime this issue is platformed by folks who otherwise pay very little attention to women's sport or ridicule it. What women's sport do you follow? The question of unfair advantage should be led experts in the field, not by armchair quarterbacks.

[@HellCatt0770]

We are so lucky to have so many forthright, empathetic and intelligent women in the UK helping to push back the harms of Gender Identity

[@squamish4244]

Ireland. Just saying that because Irish people are adamant that they are not British lol

[@ME24689]

Two Irish women there! 😊

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

Literally no that i know that has transitioned either young or old transitioned because of gender ideology, you are conflating. If all they were doing was "pushing back the harms of Gender Identity" which is not true then i would support them .

[@Engrave.Danger]

​@@non_ideological_transexual7414so would it be fair to say that you have more agreement than disagreement? Care to share what issues you have with their approach?

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

@@Engrave.Danger All of them because they are dogmatic & not nuanced at all . There is also the standpoint that we all need to listen "because we are women " behind all of it they pick & choose their stats , culture ,history as they feel the need to win any particular tier of their arguments. In principle no brainwashing in schools should take place whether it be Gender ideology, feminism, queer theory , communism ect . Gender ideology as taught & used should not be used as the basis for transitioning or understanding what is going on in an individual.

[@digitaltango]

I sleep better at night knowing these women are confronting gender ideology in law and policy. Incredible work!

[@grothd09]

The problem is that “rights” for gender identity explicitly means loss of rights for sex categories!

[@timbarry5080]

At this point I think it's ok to be called a "transphobe" by a bunch of crazies"

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

@timbarry5080 - yes, I agree, we should wear it with pride - transphobic terf signing off - lol!! (Of course I'm not actually anti-trans) I think adults should be able to live their lives as they wish and hold whatever beliefs they want - I'm only concerned when their demands threaten my and other women's rights. And I draw the line at trans children - there shouldn't be ANY transitioning of children - these kids should be left alone and encouraged to accept themselves as they are.

[@kathystephen]

Thank you Stella, Helen and Maya, voices of sanity

[@marieparker3822]

Regarding puberty-blockers for confused children or distressed adolescents: there is a serious problem of 'fully informed consent'. Brett Weinstein has reminded us that at Nuremberg in 1947, seven doctors were hanged for having performed experimental medical and surgical procedures on people whio were not in a position to give their fully informed consent.

[@kellharris2491]

This! But it's like they can just give out anything to anybody without knowing the results.

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

Why are every one being so mindfully stupid ? Its the parents ( they should be more informed )that actually are making the decision for any patient that is not of "age " depending in almost every legal jurisdiction. Where that is not the case it was women feminist that helped it to be otherwise thru out most all western countries

[@carolphillips682]

Sooo happy maya won after 4 years and Helen Joyce is amazing also the Irish woman is fantastic. I am donating. I beg anyone reading this to donate.

[@ME24689]

Both Helen AND STELLA ARE Irish!

[@michellehudson6865]

Great to see 2 WONDERFUL WOMEN, Maya & Helen are a wealth of education & information. Thankyou ❤

[@ME24689]

3?

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

What about Stella? Isn't she wonderful too?

[@miranda_1111]

Such an amazing panel. The three of you women just blow me away. Every time I hear any one of you three speak, I feel so grounded, and assured. You do an outstanding job of articulating the concerns, and saying what needs to be said. Sex Matters is absolutely a beacon, and a vital one. I live in Canada, but I am a monthly contributor to sex matters, because I see you as the crest of a wave that is influencing the UK, and I believe that Canadian cases will ultimately be able to point to the work you have done. You are forging the path. I thank you with every fibre of my being.

[@catherinerobilliard7662]

Thank you, you wonderful women! ❤❤❤

[@bogdiworksV2]

Politicians don't have 15 min to listen to things they need to know before voting for laws that will change people's lives...

[@lovelover4408]

Helen and Maya give me hope that there are some grown ups leading the charge back towards reality. Gratefully watching from Portland Oregon, woke hellscape

[@AndyJarman]

A year ago the You Tube videos I was watching here in Australia were being interrupted by advertisements pleading the viewer to fill out a letter of support for draft "anti-conversion" therapy laws. I looked into the organisation sponsoring and funding the advertisements. It was a Conservative Peer in the Westminster House of Lords. There are often line individuals conspiring and fuelling the TRA movement around the world. They would seem to be people whose private lives could be disinfected with sunlight.

[@HellCatt0770]

Do you remember the name of the peer?

[@lukecarey613]

I’m Australian and I remember something similar.

[@poonamsvideoblogs]

At about 28 minutes, Helen Joyce says "then do you want to still have this operation..." Well with self ID it's not even anymore about the "operation" or "efforts" such as hormones, dress. Now anyone can IDENTIFY. So it's the IDENTITY, not the process that needs to be attached to these restrictions. I like this line of thought. Especially as it is a faster objective. Still it will not address the insiduous and poisonous ideology of SYNTHETIC SEXUAL IDENTITIES. Which is transhumanist, consumerist, and a war of sick rich pervs for their own pleasure, overriding women, especially lesbians.

[@dorasneddon774]

Yes. Which is why getting the ambiguity done away with by defining terms and meaning in law matters so very much and why Sex Matters is pursuing this line.

[@juliemoss3753]

Well put.

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

Lets conflate everything so we can just ban or make illegal things that we find personally problematic. BTW how high on the intersectional scale are you ? Not as high as black lesbians that started that intersectionality crap.

[@Hidinginyourcupboard]

Three of my favourite people all together at once! 👍🏼

[@marieparker3822]

It would be good if the existing *statutory law* was implemented (eg FGM).

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

Yes FGM is awful and to be consistent for male circumcision as well , prosecute regardless of religion or ethnicity

[@Jackjohnjay]

Man we need ladies like this in the US. Aside from Moms for Liberty, I know if no groups doing this in the US…

[@Nico5890]

Women's Liberation Front!

[@Disinterested-jg6pw]

These women - along with Kellie Jay are my heroes

[@lilmoi8820]

Take a good look at these absolute legends. ❤️

[@joanneehret3774]

I love you women! Thank you for your courage and integrity!

[@th_gender08]

Good work❤

[@miroirs-jumeaux]

🏆

[@Glenda-px4we]

As an Irish woman I'm so worried we seem to be the Canada of Europe.

[@user-xw1gk6wi1r]

Thank you to everybody who was involved in giving Maya and Helen a platform to speak about women's rights. ❤

[@carltaylor6452]

I do hope Genspect receive lots of $$$ from KZbin from the advertising revenue from this video. There are so many ads every few minutes it's almost as if KZbin don't want people to persevere with watching this through. I have, because it's great! 🙂

[@lukecarey613]

Brilliantly articulated.

[@terfteeps]

I arrived too late for this bit so glad to see it now!

[@jrd33]

Excellent work, ladies. Thank you.

[@jonnash5196]

Did I hear that There will be a GENSPEC even in Annapolis Maryland ?

[@giselec.7806]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="2509">41:49</a>.... unfortunately you are wrong....the gender identity already started to be teached in Brazil....

[@germk660]

So grateful to you amazing women

[@pseudonamed]

great talk

[@gayechapman4448]

Thank you wonderful women.

[@lawsonspedding6136]

Sad they never mentioned “Posie” Parker - her fight has been enormous !

[@helenromanelli2544]

I love that you are all able to laugh...

[@lane-petcarechildcare3341]

Running on anger and humour is my new motto in life!

[@bobbresnahan8397]

These insidious ideas wiggle up in all kinds of unexpected places. My daughter told me I was a sexist for thinking that there are two more or less immutable sexes. In her eyes I suppose that I am committing micro-aggressions against trans people. One of my oldest friends, a feminist since the 60s and former chair of one of the State NOW chapters, was accused of sexism for requesting donations of "feminine Hygiene products" on a website helping women in shelters. A photo of her, her home, and her address were posted online -- kind of like MAGA posting info on election workers. These ideas have a hold in universities! My sister, a lifetime feminist and an eminent scientist, is influenced by them. I remember being alarmed about postmodernism in literary criticism. I long for the days of free speech on the left. We really have to defeat all this nonsense.

[@lynnmarie2962]

@bob free speech only for the left?

[@lynnmarie2962]

What kind of "info on election workers"?

[@spirit796]

Brilliant brave beautiful ... Where would we be without these amazing women.. I genuinely hate to think 💜🤍💚

[@DeTransAllianceCanada]

Trans-woman is language which causes confusion. Man with a gender identity is clear and unambiguous. Men with gender identities and feminine gender expressions are a special category of men.

[@pollyester6639]

Agree they are men trans

[@scotswumin5502]

‼️Court of session 3 day hearing sitting, day one today, in Scotland with judge Lady Haldane presiding, re uk Gov applying section 35 order in relation to the Scotgov GRA reform to make self id easier. ‼️

[@user-yc5lb8fw5r]

Oh, is there a part 2?

[@salvolondon]

I love these 3 women .

[@sarahlovesdonuts9601]

If we don’t have male birth control on the open market, how can we think that we can actually change sex?🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

That first part makes absolutely no sense , i have not changed sex but i have changed secondary ones .Some "markers" i did not need to change & that's the point of transsexualism not gender ideology . I hope men do get safe reliable birth control because it will completely change society hopefully in a better way than female birth control & abortion has.

[@jrd33]

Have you never heard of condoms?

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

Such a silly frivolous thing to say , not related at all. The GC lie is that we all think we changed changed our sex or that we need to change it .Your simplistic understanding of sex based on gametes etc is counter to what you say about pronouns . BTW normal humans recognize all my secondary characteristic some of which preceded my medicalization. I guarantee that you think heterosexual women have the personal right to never be pregnant by unnatural means for their entire lives if they so choose. BTW when heterosexual men do have safe reliable birth control many will also choose to never have children ,you are so naive that you think that will benefit women, it won't

[@grothd09]

Love Helen! Stella caves on some of the talking points which is disappointingz

[@clarebear764]

"you'll be on the wireless" 😂😂😂

[@helenromanelli2544]

I wish Maya would speak louder....I have my speaker up on high and its still hard to hear her....

[@ecocentrichomestead6783]

It's hard to explain in a comment but: If "transgender" was defined as a person with a high number of characteristics (both physical and personality) commonly expected of the opposite sex, I would have no problem with that. However, claiming one IS the opposite sex, is bat shit crazy. A transgender man would be a feminine man. A transgender woman would be a masculine woman.

[@Hatrackman]

Economic collapse also means no more condoms.

[@tomgreene1843]

Who is the woman facilitating this discussion ?

[@sf6199]

✔️

[@iloveminiapplepies]

3 out of 4 my favorite women together, awesome. Add Kellie-Jay Keen and I'm in heaven

[@royjenkins6199]

OK - so these women are doing a great job, but what on earth happened to the world that made it necessary to even say what everybody already knew only even a short time ago?

[@ohman3216]

The new Trinity?

[@Islas_Canarias]

"Para los Ingleses ver." For the English to see.

[@jemase7931]

Schools. Vouchers. How many parents would chose this propaganda over academic performance if they could opt out?

[@voulafisentzidis8830]

People can be whatever they wish but children must be protected in public spaces.

[@nikobellic570]

Algorithm

[@digitalqueen167]

Pronouns are a bunch of bollocks literally

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

Yes other people choose them for you , never ever had an issue anywhere i go

[@loganjames3789]

Milk bottles? Distracting.

[@nogorman560]

z

[@helendancelot]

First..

[@MrTwitch1999]

Really enjoyed this. It seems a ‘Transphobe’ has many different meaning to many different people. Personally I think everyone has free will and if they want to dress up as / identify as a woman, there are no objections, until it’s involving woman’s rights and when it involves children, I just don’t understand how that is not understood.

[@Momoka7]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="85">1:25</a> Isn't it always the same song and dance? You speak out against the open celebration of same-sex couples, against promotion of it. I even had people tell me "how do you know you are not gay if you never tried it?"... it made me remember all the times my mother tried to make me eat vegetables I really don't like. What happen when I dislike everyone talking about same-sex relationships, about the changing of ones own gender into the opposite one. They make kids that are not even done with puberty doubt themselves. I remember I had doubts as well, well into my mid-twenties. Heterophobic, that is what they are.

[@xmaseveeve5259]

How can you 'dream up' a person's case 'before I even existed'? Scriptwriters do this. The jokes about a movie also disturb me. See Loufti's lecture on free speech.

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

Clear that gender identity is harmful , also clear what Genspect's motivation really is that should be no transsexuals living amongst women .

[@juliemoss3753]

No. Genspect supports David /Debbie Hayton who is a school teacher, admitted autogynephile (getsasexualthrill from performing femininity to a coerced audience) and union rep who wrote that males who identify as female can use female spaces and toilets in schools.

[@atticstattic]

That's not what was expressed

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

@@atticstattic I have spoken directly with genspect ( Stella ) , yes it is their policy, they do not want anyone under 25 to ever legally or medically transition, they do not believe it is ever necessary nor will they assist in anyway whatsoever. Ask them these Qs directly...hard to get them to say it.

[@atticstattic]

@@non_ideological_transexual7414 That has nothing to do with what you stated in your original comment.

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

@@atticstattic It is exactly connected , you assume that they have only one purpose as an Org . Don't confuse medical transsexualism with gender ideology like they intentionally do . The "women first " aspect is a non-starter if feminism was about equality , no i do not mean equity . I have read the WDI demand statement .

[@tomgreene1843]

Don't let these women near the Irish media or education facilities!

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1627">27:07</a> Does not have a right to a job with intimate exam ? Really how many female nurses should be out of jobs ect then ? This is exactly the nonsense by sex matters & WDI are pushing rather that address the minority problems ( because they are ) but still behind equity hiring except where you don't benefit from it . Same same

[@9395gb]

They aren't out of jobs. Men can request male doctors and nurses and they do. It's no different from getting a prostate exam. Most men request male doctors to do it.

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

I made a number of separate points on the same subject. People do not know that i was born male unless i tell them. That being seen as a women ,accepted as a women has a test in many cultures that you must bear children to be a women & not a girl. This was the west until recent modern times . Never have i made the argument for Self I.D for a number of reasons , i have advocated against it "Trans women"in sports is a completely ridiculous situation, it should never have happened. Not really interested enough in sports to follow any, most is so commercially oriented. I am against discrimination on the basis of sex alone, i am against having a right , privilege based on sex alone . In other words i am for actual equality. For example if a transsexual is attractive enough, meets the abilities needed for beauty pageants then any should be open on those terms....there is absolutely nothing unfair because there is no biological advantage like sport. Feminists, women & their supporters made the reasonable arguments against discrimination exclusively on the basis of sex alone , it MUST go both ways. The new feminist reformers that say a little has to be given back to men in order to exclude all males from some "women's" spaces does not cut it...that is again picking & choosing for an adopted position...i say NO !

[@LadyVandMrT]

​​@@non_ideological_transexual7414you keep stating this every where. It is clear that you need and want acceptance as a trans woman more than you care about women's issues. That's kind of the entire point of this organization. Prove them wrong, and listen to women even if it makes you feel bad about yourself. I listen to trans women, I see them as women. Prove that how you were born doesn't matter, and stop acting like a man in these comments for a start. You speak and clearly think like a woman, but having been born with a dick has influenced you. Trans women are beautiful in their uniqueness from women. For instance, ContraPoints made a recent video that I think is more informed because of the complexity of her journey to find herself. She is able to philosophize like a man, hold onto details, reference dead philosophers who were so dumb and sexist, most female philosophers don't give them the time of day. It reinforces her points. And yet, she is decidedly female, empathic, able to understand the way these old dead philosophers thought like no man could. That's a wonderful, amazing thing that we should celebrate, not dismiss as divergent from the trans goal of "passing" or whatever validation coping mechanism gives rise to the pathological nature of your comments in this thread. Be you, celebrate what makes you different. I hope the world grows less hateful, more fair toward cis women, and that others can find the center here. I am sure they can, but in the meantime, please be well and be treated well.

[@ericswann1417]

Are any of these people ever going to think about or even reference MEN'S single sex spaces being invaded? My guess is no.

[@Gingerblaze]

Hoping more men will speak up about this.

[@jrd33]

No. But that's fair enough, they have chosen to focus on how the problem affects them. As is their right.

[@pseudonamed]

Why aren't men speaking up about trans men entering their spaces? Likely because males are less likely to be assaulted by females than vice versa. Trans men pass better and don't tend to perve on men as often as trans women perve on women.

[@BigDog366]

Feminism absolutely created this awful situation. When women wanted to join the combat units in the army, the men in those units said they didn't want them, that it would ruin unit cohesiveness, the sense of brotherhood all-male units create and their psychological and physical well-being on the battlefield (they need their buddies to be able to carry them to safety if they're injured). Women said we don't care about any of that, let us in. WE want it, so you have to suck it up. Now the tables are turned and women don't like men in their spaces because of female cohesiveness in those places, our sense of being with just women, and our psychological and physical well-being. And men are saying they don't care, suck it up. Sorry, girls, we brought this on ourselves and we need to give ground (get women out of men's jobs) to gain ground again.

[@helendancelot]

But women have never demanded to go into the men's toilets and changing rooms prisons etc. Having said that I don't think the forces should have lowered entry standards

[@lillywest9204]

"Get women out of mens job"- The issue really, is that it isn't based on merit e.g. women get in some jobs based on a lowered standard. Make it based on the merits for the job only and there won't be too much of an issue, when it comes to women in the army, firefighter service e.c.t. anymore.

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

@@lillywest9204 Obviously you have not read much feminist legal theory or Equity policies on systemic patriarchal discrimination against women which state that if there is not 50% representation of women in EVERY field then it must be due to discrimination...there are stupid UK laws based on this as well as everywhere else.

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

Your right when there are groups of women chatting , so on and just ONE man enters it changes our whole dynamics which is a drag really unless he is very nice looking but even then.

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

@@helendancelot Not en masse but yes & feminist supported it . Lots of women sneek into male toilets at concerts , nights out when there are line ups...they think they will be safe & like they are almost alway. About 5 years ago because of all THIS i tried using a male restroom ( in a secure Gov building ) ..2 men came in & ran right back out , said nothing

[@MelvinWillikers]

The Father Ted reboot sux.

[@somethingsomething7205]

99% of the time "sex" is short for sexual intercourse, just do a Google image search. Then try listing all the terms with the word sex in them. How often does it mean male/female? Sexism, secondary sex characteristics, same-sex attraction... that's about it, all of which are rare & getting rarer all the time. What about the adjective form: 'sexual'? When does that ever refer to the sexes, rather being related to intercourse? And consider, what parents & teachers are going to be more comfortable talking to children about: sex or gender? You've been bamboozled into the self-ID cult's plan of making male/female obscene via their appropriation of the word 'gender' to mean self-ID & demoting male/female to "sex". "Sex matters" complicitly legitimises their monopolising of language withe their pseudo-language. Gender = the sexes. If gender isn't real, there is no gender wage gap, nor gender inequality, nor gender bias, nor gendercide. If gender doesn't mean the male & female sexes then "MtF transgender" i.e. the transitioning for male to female/from one gender to the other, likewise has no meaning.

[@pseudonamed]

People use the word "gender" in a million ways, I never use that word alone because it will be misinterpreted. Instead I will say "gender identity" or "gender role", etc. I also always say "biological sex" instead of just sex. Simply saying "gender" when you mean biological sex will just get confusing if you're talking to people who already think "gender" means how you feel about yourself.

[@somethingsomething7205]

@@pseudonamed The average joe uses terms like "gender reveal party" & all the other average joes understand perfectly what that means: a party where the parents reveal whether their unborn child is male or female. Likewise, I remind you of the examples I already listed. No one is confused by 'gender wage gap'. What's the alternative? "Biological sex wage gap"?

[@LadyVandMrT]

​@@somethingsomething7205it would be pretty simple: are trans women affected by the wage gap? It's a gender wage gap. If they're not? It's a wage gap for biological women. The terms gender and sex come from biology and psychology, science publications said them first.

[@somethingsomething7205]

@@LadyVandMrT The word "gender" is centuries old. If you didn't even know that then your opinion is based in ignorance.