Trans Rights and Gender Identity with Kathleen Stock

What happens when public policy meets the complex world of modern gender identity? Our guest today is Kathleen Stock, Ph.D., a former professor of philosophy at the University of Sussex, author of the critically-acclaimed "Material Girls," and an Officer of the Order of the British Empire (OBE) awardee. Kathleen joins host John Tomasi to navigate the often-tense intersection of trans rights, gender identity, and academic freedom. Despite facing protests, security threats, and professional challenges, Kathleen steadfastly advocates for open inquiry and reasoned debate.
Today, John and Kathleen discuss the controversial landscape of transgender issues. Kathleen criticizes the medicalization of gender questioning and the societal pressure it places on individuals. She explains how academic and societal frameworks have rapidly evolved with the influence of activism, particularly examining the ramifications for single-sex spaces and public policies.
In This Episode:
• Criticism of the medicalization of gender questioning
• The societal impact of Stonewall’s policy changes and the Gender Recognition Act
• Challenges faced by Kathleen in professional settings due to her views
• Debates over the inclusion of trans women in single-sex spaces and sports
• The role of free speech and reason in academic discourse
• Concerns for the future of universities and academic freedom
Follow Kathleen on X here: x.com/Docstockk
Check out her book Material Girls: a.co/d/02sKzGz9
About Kathleen:
Kathleen Stock is a contributing writer at UnHerd and a co-director of The Lesbian Project. She is the author of Material Girls: Why Reality Matters for Feminism (Little Brown 2021) and Only Imagine: Fiction, Interpretation and Imagination (Oxford University Press 2017). Until 2021, she was a Professor of Philosophy at Sussex University. In the last few years, she has written for UK national publications on a range of issues, especially on sex, gender, and women's rights. In 2024, she was highly commended for her UnHerd columns at the UK Press Awards; in 2022, she was voted World’s Top Thinker in Prospect Magazine. She was awarded an Officer of the Order of the British Empire for services to higher education in 2020.
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[@bulldogklaus47]

Kathleen Stock and Helen Joyce have become my most inspirational thinkers.

[@dyoung1492]

Me too ... both are measured and kind.

[@clareclements6724]

💯

[@lynnm6413]

Yes, and even though is injustice towards women and girls is driving me up the wall, they are both so cal, logical and measured in their responses to the absolute insanity we are all facing from the TRA‘s! I have huge respect for both 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@bulldogklaus47]

@@lynnm6413 Absolutely! Their courage is without equal and they way the comport themselves in the face of such hate and vitriol is why I believe that, eventually, reason and civility will prevail. Madness is like a fire; it burns through everything in its path but vanishes the moment there's no more fuel.

[@salvolondon]

Helen is , Stock lives in a lesbian bubble , anyone who suggest that a child can actually have two mothers is as delusional as those who say men can be women ….

[@annthomas8280]

I'm always struck by Dr Stock's calm and reason in the face of this relentless onslaught. Long may she prosper.

[@jesipohl6717]

Who?

[@rmac3217]

Evidence phase

[@shantishanti1949]

@@jesipohl6717😢😢😢 for you.

[@jesipohl6717]

She's honestly just a basic quiter

[@galaxytrio]

She's very decent and likeable. Very sad to hear how the mob went after her.

[@catherinerobilliard7662]

And what a dishonourable thing for that young man Kass to do, be the host, take her out for a meal, introduce her to the debate then just as she’s beginning to finally feel a little less threatened under all the frightening circumstances, he turns on her in the nastiest, most sadistic way possible. I hope he remembers the rest of his life and hangs his head in shame, though from his smug face, the reverse is likely to be true. His parents must be so proud.

[@Barfield-cg7iq]

The same mob that has now been so easily turned against the Jews.

[@jesipohl6717]

​@@catherinerobilliard7662 so she's weak?

[@rmac3217]

All we want us some evidence, is that so much to ask for?

[@jesipohl6717]

​@@rmac3217the only evidence I know are her easily accessible deleted tweets on github. Someone has saved them all. She just doesn't know how to say things that are true, so she deletes reality to pretend like she wasn't wrong.

[@ewajustka]

Kathleen Stock is my hero. She gave me the strength to speak up against gender ideology in the arts. I paid the price, but it was worth it. Truth matters.

[@Gullvivas]

😇

[@jesipohl6717]

Good to know "the arts" (said no artist ever) doesn't abide malicious bigots.

[@ewajustka]

@@jesipohl6717 ugh, 'bigots', 'terfs', 'fascists' - women heard it all. you're boring, woke bro!

[@GarethPlafrey]

Well done, truth does matter. However, there is always a price for being right. There is only one thing that is required for evil (yes, I mean evil), to thrive is that good people do nothing.

[@codinghusky5196]

​@@jesipohl6717 ..I think when people say "the arts" they don't mean "I'm a painter" or "I'm a musician" but rather "the arts department at the university I study / am employed at"...

[@judyrudin2968]

I'm all for Kathleen (and Helen) getting those knighthood. Superlative and clear-headed thinkers should never be out of style.

[@studioclairobscur]

Thank you Kathleen, you were the first person I saw publicly speak on this topic at a time where it seemed taboo to do so, and you spoke so much sense it became the key to me waking up to this insanity that is the trans ideology. I applaud your candor and courage

[@KickRocks-me7hh]

@@studioclairobscur there's no such thing as trsns urology. That's a term made up by the right wing religious nutjobs.

[@jesipohl6717]

#youreaterf

[@ShrimpySoup]

​@@jesipohl6717 You are delulu.

[@kathyplank-q4o]

Keep speaking up Kathleen Stock- your voice,alongside JK Rowling,Kellie Jay Keen,Helen Joyce among others. We need your voices to keep reality alive and preserve children’s lives and their health. I really like the way you refer to society as ‘so-called progressive’, when in all actuality it is regressive,perpetuating misogyny. Keep on speaking up ❤🙏❤️

[@jesipohl6717]

Eve Braun was also a TERF.

[@LeeGee]

A crying shame what Sussex did to this academic.

[@TheNesbittExperience]

It’s now happening the other way around. A collegiate was chased out of her Colorado college by witch hunters and she will study in the UK in the fall. This is having a huge impact on our best, brightest and most empathetic.

[@frankgradus9474]

IMHO, wokery/genderqueer and islamism are two sides of the same coin; but pple are at a loss to know exactly what's going on; GAY NOT QUEER

[@morgondew1420]

I have found that if people are good at their job and a valuable employee it takes a hell of a lot more than a few complaints to get you fired. However, if you are not , and hard to work with it doesn't take much as the people in charge are looking for any reason to have you removed. Just saying.

[@evesapple]

@@morgondew1420she wasn’t fired though. She left because of relentless harassment.

[@jesipohl6717]

She literally quit. She's a quitter for clicks, it worked too. Pearl-grabbers love a good story.

[@clovermark39]

Great interview. I wear mens clothes now but I’ve never think I am a man, find them more comfortable. I always have been a Tom boy and you can do anything you want whatever sex you are as long as you don’t hurt anyone else. I was in the military for 12 yrs, had kids, rode motorcycles, bikes, do diy, make furniture. You don’t need to change sex for anything. I am now over 60 and loving my retirement. Wouldn’t change a thing but it’s scary to think, would I have been persuaded to go down this route and ruin my life.

[@babs_babs]

you wouldn’t have been “persuaded” to be trans. your experience has nothing to do with trans people, you’re just old ot of touch and you make it other peoples problem

[@Sherlock245]

So instead of sex change man should do all feminine things and be as girly as they want and society will accept that?? 😮 Like what you did?

[@dagnolia6004]

@@Sherlock245 YES! i bartended in a gay bar in the early 80's. there were girly boys and macho men and everything in-between. i remember some VERY effeminate 'straight' guys hanging around because they didn't fit in anywhere else. if you are a woman that is 6'4" or a man that is 5'0" people may WANT to put you in a gay box, but that is on THEM. society doesn't "ACCEPT" differences. but just because "society" is uncomfortable doesn't mean people should Masquerade to "FIT IN".

[@springwood1331]

@sherlock well, yes, they should be able to do that. As to society accepting it? Tbh, probably not, because it's generally not as accepted in the same way for men. Maybe changing that would've been/is a better route than getting everyone to question their sex if they don't conform.

[@kyoglesage]

Been a tomboy my entire 77 years. Never had any doubts that I'm female. I rejected the stereotypical way females were 'supposed' to look, dress, behave and think from an early age (1950s 1960s) even though some thought I may end up an old maid. I didn't. The best of men accepted me for who I am.

[@ApacheMagic]

Something I’ve noticed about the detractors of Kathleen and others like JKR, is that they seemingly deliberately misconstrue their words. Any comment that starts with ‘I feel like she’s REALLY saying…’ Is a typical as a example. They turn everything into a dogwhistle that doesn’t actually exist.

[@OlliePeach]

Strawmanning

[@poshdog123]

Ideologs do not care about evidence and reason

[@banedon8087]

As OilliePerach say: Straw manning. It's a well known thoroughly dishonest method of communication typically used by identitarians to misrepresent their opponents arguments. It worked quite well for them between 2014-2020, much less so these days as more and more people have wised up to it.

[@talldrinkofwater5259]

Typical of the mid to far left.

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

Untrue. JKR policies would if implemented mean that i would be unable to enter a number of medical services that i need . Normally these would just be accessed by women & jkr would specifically exclude me on the basis of my genetic sex not medical needs.Please tell me how this is not sexist , bigoted and misandry . Would men decide ever to exclude women on the basis of sex only from any medical services that they usually alone access ? Would that be tolerated even to discuss the possibility of men excluding women ? These women have the same extreme positions. Where there is sport yes it is unfair to allow trans in women sport yet these same women push for equity for women where the same capacity is not there as police, etc. Separate protected sex competion's for a game of intellect like chess but the demand equity for CEOs , STEM etc double standards all round . Cannot compete in the same comps in darts but demand equity in police. military . Please explain

[@kpt002]

I am a Finnish woman born in 1970's and I was never a girly girl - hated skirts and dresses - and had always lots of boys as my friends. In 1980's-1990's Finland that was not a thing.. Like the whole sex and gender was not a thing at all. My mom (born in 1940's) never wore make up, always had a short hair, mostly used pants and worked full time outside home and none of that was a thing. I think most of my friends had mothers like that. Now suddenly a man who wears a dress and likes to put make up on his face has become the norm for a "woman" and a woman who doesn't do that is then labled as "non-binary" or maybe even a "trans".. Like WTF has happened?? This poisonous idelogy has invaded Finland too - and just like anywhere else the univerisites and all the places where leftists have ruling positions it is the oppinion everyone should have. All though I have never been a very feminine girl/woman - and I definitely did not like how my body developed through my teenage years getting breasts and wider hips - I still have never ever thought I was not a girl or that I was a boy.. I just felt like a boyish girl. And that was totally fine then. I really do not understand who really benefits of this "new world" other than some fanatic activists and men who want to invade women's spaces.

[@varjaprotassova196]

I'm in Finland as well and I still hope the medical field at least retains some science-based constraints here....

It's not about 'trans' really...that's the proxy. It IS about coercion, manipulation, and power

[@kpt002]

Sure! The aim is just to confuse people's minds so that they not anymore know who they are and which part is the head and which part the tail..

[@banedon8087]

Correct. It uses DEI, minorities and "social justice" as a shield and a hammer. BTW the next thing to be sued is DEI on steroids called Bridge. Look it up.

[@Sherlock245]

A man who wear a dress is a cross dresser for sexual fantasy or Thomas Another example clearly a man. look at blair white for reference of what trans are. Blair white agree children going on blocker is wrong.

[@RIANAVENTER]

Kathleen Stock, Helen Joyce, Maya Forstatter, Kelly Jay Keen (Posie Parker), Dr Hilary Cass, JK Rowling ... Thank you for courage to stand against the aggression, the vitriol and the malice of power grabbers. 🎀🏆

[@Ilovecleanlaundry]

Poise Parker thinks children need a man and a woman to raise them.

[@jesipohl6717]

What a list of bigots.

[@281992pdr]

@@jesipohl6717 This will probably be reported as "ha**". Transgenderism is an ideology because it is a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy. Here are some elements: One e.g of a trans idea - anthropologiy students are being taught the idea that skeletons can not be identified as male or female, their sex can only be 'estimated', one e.g. of a trans ideal - that sex and gender used synonomously are or a spectrum, e.g. of a trans economic policy is that all trans cosmetic surgery should be provided on NHS/Medicare (which it pretty much is) no woman patient should be allowed to insist on having a woman doctor to consult with; one e.g. of trans political policy is having legislation changed so that birth history and consequent documentation is altered to suit the preference (called self-id) of the person who claims to be of the other sex. Other e.g.s - The transgender movement has its own flag that it's activists march under and it has organs set up to promote its ideas and ideals - Stonewall etc. It's members are active in shutting down discussion both public and private - e.g. Stock and others (if you want the names of 50+ people who have been fired/had to close their businesses, otherwise lost their livelihoods) because they refused to go along with the ideas and imposed speech of the trans ideology, I can provide that.) What I have just written is real.

[@jaijai5250]

@@jesipohl6717they’re standing up to the bigots, and the abusive, entitled men.

[@Herbie-in-CA]

@@jesipohl6717it’s bigoted to say biological sex is real?

[@paulafyans8954]

Wonderful interview with the intelligent, courageous and clear-thinking Kathleen Stock. Thank you for all your work in trying to bring truth and understanding to an area that has been hijacked, to the detriment of children, adolescents and women. Share with everyone you know!

[@ApacheMagic]

Wonderful woman,sees clearly and speaks sense. Sussex ought to beg her forgiveness.

[@mumtrader]

Kathleen epitomises beautifully reasoned discourse, she’s a real role model.

[@garyweglarz]

If the - "solution to the problem" - is cutting off healthy body parts, ingesting toxic chemicals and spending a life of medicalization - perhaps we need to rethink just what - "the problem" - actually might be. Thank you Kathleen Stock for the courage you have shown speaking out for basic common sense in this matter.

[@rosablume4346]

I‘m afraid today to a lot of folks a technical, medical solution appears neater, faster, „easier“ than addressing the real underlying issues, work on those and helping troubled teens over their anxieties.

[@sewfairyadhock8618]

I love love love this courageous, intelligent woman. Long may her voice be heard loud and clear. Shame on those who have tried to silence her.

[@jesipohl6717]

Enjoy those sex checks you advocate for, more cis women will be subject to them than trans women.

[@jesipohl6717]

Shame on herfor silencing herself by quiting and refusing to debate opponents.

[@SP-1414]

Solidarity with Kathleen Stock and others fighting for women and reality.

[@lancewalker2595]

I like how everyone just pretends not to notice that fathers have been degraded as “sperm donors” by BOTH the gender identity movement and the feminism that preceded it, so unless I’m being unreasonable in asserting that manhood and fatherhood are more complex and inherently significant than the term “sperm donor” implies, I feel at liberty to point out that this kind of dehumanization is hardly exclusively directed at women. Every objectionable thing that this ideology is doing to women and girls was already being done to men and boys prior to 2015 when the gender insanity begun, it might appear that women and girls are under a disparate degree of attack, but frankly that’s only because: on the one hand, women and girls and the essence of femininity is far less vulnerable to subversion than men and boys and the essence of masculinity are, which makes them a FAR more difficult target; and on the other hand, the attack upon men and boys and masculine identity has been going on for so long that we don’t even notice it as an aberration. The progressive mission to supplant masculinity with misandry has been institutionally and culturally achieved already, what we are now observing is the pursuit to achieve the next item on the progressive agenda: to supplant femininity with misogyny. I will admit that I lament the lack of concern for men and boys, who have been suffering silently in a milieu of misandry for decades now, compared to the much greater and more immediate concern in responding to the same sort of subversion directed at girls and women; but I have some hope that by attacking women and girls the progressive scourge will become necessarily more apparent to people who are (generally) instinctively inclined to notice and respond to the suffering of women and girls. Progressivism is nothing more than the praxis of nihilism, it would benefit humanity greatly to recognize the fact that misogyny and misandry are simply two sides of the same misanthropic coin.

[@lornocford6482]

​@@lancewalker2595​ can you give examples of what you're talking about? How are boys, men and masculinity erased in the same way is happening to girls, women and femininity is now? I don't see women in men's prisons, crisis centres, changing rooms, toilets, etc. I don't see females threatening the lives of boys and men. Please explain your point of view.

[@iamanomas]

She is as clear as ever and as needed. I’m a 78 year old female/woman and this issue has been driving me crazy. Thank you Kathleen. ❤️❤️❤️❤️🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦

[@kashesan]

You are appreciated Professor Stock.

[@jesipohl6717]

Not a Prof. She quit

[@QHarbin]

@@jesipohl6717 Many of us view her role as a professor to the public now. We can all learn from her.

[@advocate1563]

KS always worth listening to.

[@Michelle-c2r4e]

I remember her being hounded out of her university by tbe trans cult. It was shocking to me because she hadn't said anything untrue. She was so measured yet they hounded her out. No debate remember Stonewall manyra. I just like her. She's great. ❤

[@aodhanofailain]

How about we don’t tell people, ‘You’re right to think you’re born in the wrong body, mutilate yourself with my blessing, and I’ll go along with the fiction that you’ve changed sex’? How about we say, ’You’re mistaken to think you’re born in the wrong body. Your body is you. You’re beautiful, good, and loveable just as you are. We’re glad that none of us can change sex, because we love you now as the whole person you are, body, mind, and spirit. You have a difficult condition called gender dysphoria, but people have recovered from this without self-harming and with our support so can you’?

[@jomassey4207]

Exactly how this should be handled. Instead outsiders get involved and push parents away and brainwash young people to physically ruin themselves. It should be a crime to harm others by mutilating the body. The way we communicate clearly and rationally seems to have gone out the window.

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

G/D is also a stand in for a type of person who simply fits much better living as the opposite sex, it's easier & less stressful. Gender dysphoria is just ONE component of the problem and has been an accepted TRIGGER to allow transition for many to transition, also allows access to heterosexual men that every transsexual i know prefers. This has never been about "the wrong body" that is only a vague some what descriptor for others to try and comprehend it and TRAs have pushed it as literal which gender ideology does also. This below is quite accurate but of course Dr Cantor wants everyone to live outright as homosexual. kzbin.info/www/bejne/p2S4k2lreNyciKs

[@aodhanofailain]

@DebraJammis Thank you for this important information. Let's hope people in the Labour party read this before their proposed ideological ban on the use of science-based psychotherapy to treat gender dysphoria.

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

@DebraJammis There are 2 main and distinct types of G/D one od which is not really sex dsphoria ( G/D ). There has to be a separation and those who psychiatric problems that LED them there or were caused by post treatment after developing G/D & being very GNC as very young children. This is in no way simple so stop conflating.

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

@DebraJammis I believe that you have a vested interest in people not transitioning like all of the prominent gay therapist do. You all want a piece of the pie to remove any self determination . Kathleen stock is no different, no one must live as a homosexual it's not "better" that is a lie ,less true for girls where medicalization is more complex without the same end outcome possible post op . I do not advocate for any one to be affirmed , G/D is a STAND IN for a type of person who can greatly benefit. You all just want more bodies to break norms like queer theorists do or join the LGB. No thanks 👿

[@itsacomment5991]

As a psychologist who's done a couple of thousand comprehensive pych evals during my career, I will not have anything to do with an eval for someone who needs clearance to proceed with transitioning. A friend who is similarly highly qualified did one and found himself professionally attacked because he identified contraindications for proceeding with the transition. There is an industry of medical professionals and support people who want the appearance of good practices, but in fact, they just want a credentialed person to approve regardless of the suitability and best interests of the patient. Since this happened with one friend who conducted such an evaluation, I've asked a few other friends in the field if they'd accept that work. So far, no one wants to touch it for fear of the personal and professional repercussions if they found an examinee unsuitable to proceed.

[@64bluegrass]

What is a “psych evaluation” anyway?

[@itsacomment5991]

@@64bluegrass Takes seconds to Google it.

[@camimons470]

As a psychotherapist I was asked to do the therapy to recommend patients transitions in the 1980’s. I refused. I would not have felt ok about recommending it. One patient I saw was delusional and believed he had to change sex because of a sin his mother committed. He had been put on hormones. I wrote a letter to the doctor and explained the patient was psychotic and should not have been put on hormones. I never got a response. More recently, a therapist was murdered by her patient for delaying in writing the recommendation. This is a very disturbed population in general. I am retired and I am glad I retired before things escalated to the situation we have now. Transgender activists promote rage and bullying now.

[@tinamac2380]

As a ‘professional’ you have a duty to ‘challenge’ someone before they undertake life-changing procedures. That’s what ‘acting in the client’s best interests’ means. If their ideas can’t stand up to a few difficult questions then they probably need to go away and have a bigger think about what they want.

[@casteretpollux]

I would leave that situation. This not science, so what is it?

[@colinellicott9737]

Woman: adult human female.

[@River10081]

Thank you, Kathleen. It’s centering to listen to you speak clearly and calmly on this issue. I stumbled on a 10 minute clip that may be helpful to share with those who disbelieve that an intact male transwoman, repeatedly convicted of horrendous sexual violence, can be placed in a woman’s prison. It’s a video of the US Congress, interviewing a judicial nominee, posted by Forbes last month - you can find it on KZbin by searching “all hell breaks in judiciary committee”. Please share it with Julie Bindel if you see fit. Thanks, Patty

[@amandaelliott7953]

Yes, I’ve shared that one about too. Riley Gains was on Dave Rubin recently and stated in California 1600 men have applied for transfers to women’s prisons.

[@River10081]

@@amandaelliott7953 It’s hard to believe that this is commonplace. The judge said she made her decision based on facts. She described him as sober and wholly female. He hadn’t harmed anyone in prison - that was when he was placed with other men. She felt that the prison board’s concern for women’s safety was overblown. So hard to see a female judge do this to other women.

[@amandaelliott7953]

@@River10081 I understand where you’re coming from. I’m 51, a survivor of domestic abuse. I’ve been pointing these issues out to my older sisters for two years and they still don’t understand……

[@River10081]

@@amandaelliott7953 Glad you made it through❤️ I do think that women need good male power to stand with us, the way that the Senator questioned the judge powerfully, to stand up to this threat to woman’s safety..

[@amandaelliott7953]

@@River10081 yes we do and I have one of those now.

[@brockreynolds870]

I'm just flabbergasted as a 56 year old gay man at the idea of this occuring! I think back to 1977, when me and two other girls were playing Charlie's Angels on the playground... in today's world, you know damn good and well that some well meaning, virtue signaling teacher would try to tell me I was trans because I was pretending to be Kate Jackson on the playground!

[@jujutrini8412]

I always pretended to be her too! She was the more sassy Angel.😂 I used to like pretending to be six million dollar man too. 😂

[@Bambijae]

No, they wouldn't have and there are no teachers telling you. You're trans or telling anybody that they're trans for that matter. You're delusional. Do actual research into it and see why all they obvious pho ic people keep getting exiled from the medical community ITS BECAUSE THEYRE WRONG.

[@jesipohl6717]

Before 72 being gay was spoken of in the same way.

[@jujutrini8412]

@@jesipohl6717 Are you saying that before 1972 if a boy liked playing Charlie’s Angels with the girls in the playground a teacher would try to tell him that he is gay?

[@rosamontrose-690]

Wow! Never knew this inspirational woman was brought up in my birth town of Montrose. I am also classed as ‘English’ due to my Home Counties accent!

[@TheNesbittExperience]

It’s women like Kathleen who have inspired me to write my governor and Senator on this issue.

[@SuperKripke]

How do you know she is a woman?

[@richardfeit8296]

Lila Thomas tied Riley Gaines...but they gave the medal to Thomas for the optics. Thank you Kathleen for having the courage and disposition to fight these necessary fights.

[@Sherlock245]

Thomas is a man massive body built.

[@LeeJones-wk7xv]

Riley actually beat Thomas, it amazes me how often people get this wrong.

[@jesipohl6717]

Tied for 5th place, you don't get medals for fifth place in swimming. 4 other cis women won against both of them. But I guess those women break your narrative.

[@richardfeit8296]

@@jesipohl6717 My narrative is that there are no trans gendered persons. There are men and there are women. Our sexuality expressed is not truth, it's a reality. No one can change there sex, only their sexual preferences and identity. I have a sexual preference, heterosexual, and I have no sexual identity. I am a male. Men should not compete against women physically. It robs women of opportunity.

[@wjdeoliveira3809]

You aren't "born in a body", you ARE your body. Unless you are religious and believe in souls.

[@kpt002]

Sure, but I also think that many religious people who believe in souls do not believe that a soul can be in a wrong body. Like buddhists who believe in reincarnation. They still believe that the body you got in this life is the right one for you now - like there is a reason why you ended up being this person in this body in this time..

[@wjdeoliveira3809]

@@kpt002 Oh sure. I wasn't suggesting that to believe in a soul means you must also believe you can be born in the wrong body. I'm only saying that in order to believe one can be born in the wrong body, one must necessarily believe in some sort of soul, some sort of "spiritual essence", whatever you want to call it, something that is "you" but is seperate from your body. Yet the people who believe in this sort of "gendered soul", often claim not to be religious, some even claim it is a scientific concept.

[@pwalk4160]

You are more than your body.

[@wjdeoliveira3809]

@@pwalk4160 That's a matter of belief. It's fine if you believe in a soul. It's not a provable fact.

[@pwalk4160]

@@wjdeoliveira3809 Just like "anything that's not a provable fact doesn't exist" is a belief. And I didn't say anything about a soul in the first place. The very fact that you don't have total control over "your" body, and that you say "my body", points to something more.

[@noodleperson17]

Why has the money-grubbing opportunism of Stonewall not been called out for what it is. A charity’s main aim should be to obviate its raison detre not find devious ways to perpetuate itself.

[@benfisher1376]

Alas, the whole "LGBTQ " thing has become big business now. Hence why we have pride month. A whole month to profit. It used to be a weekend.

[@jesipohl6717]

You think stonewall is rich?

[@DrGreenGiant]

@@jesipohl6717 As at 31 March 2023 their reserves are just under £2 million. Their income for the year was over £7.7 million. I'd say yes, they're rich.

[@IsabellaMoss-oj]

Very real and refreshing. Let's save our children from chemically castrating themselves. Well-done for your common sense and candid honesty.

[@williamjohn7909]

The trans debate should be seen through the perspective of narcissism. The only thing that matters is what I feel. If you see it through that perspective, the whole phenomenon of adults acting like toddlers and glueing themselves to the floor is not so strange. Narcissism is often caused by neglectful parenting, and therefore, a child's need for attention from a parent are not met. In Western society parenthood, especially amongst the professional classes, is often seen as secondary to establishing a good career. Could it be that the growth in trans identity is as a result of parents failing to give their children the proper love and attention when they were growing up?

[@Gullvivas]

I agree,but that is not the only answers -we have had internet addiction for about 26 years!

[@rvastrik]

@DebraJammis Very agree.

[@Amy-ky5wr]

I don't really think so, there's always been neglectful parents. And while there's always been a small number of people yearning to fit in with the opposite sex, this society-wide obsession with gender ideology is new. If anything today's parents are way more indulgent than prior generations. So no, I think it's something else. But yes I do see a strong vein of narcissism in the new gender-obsession movement. And (not saying you don't realise it, but I just like to make it clear as often as possible) - not all trans people support the new gender ideology, many oppose it and hate being associated with its confused and damaging messaging. For those living with life-long gender dysphoria and taking steps to alleviate it by leaning into stereotypes of the opposite sex in various ways, but who are realists about themselves, and respectful of others, not wishing to impose themselves anywhere that would make others uncomfortable - these people deserve as much respect as anyone.

[@williamjohn7909]

@Amy-ky5wr I understand your point about today's parents being more indulgent, but what kind of indulgence? I say this because when I was bringing up my son, often carers and clubs were the order of the day. I also ran sports clubs when dropping off your kid was often a convenience/necessary. Kids were also much more in organised structured environments of their own age groups than just running free with kids of all ages than when I was a kid. Yes, I am that old. Then, of course, there is the internet where kids spend hours picking up all kinds of ideas. Emotional neglect from the important care giver, especially in early childhood can have lasting deverstating effects. In the old days parents also got more support from family and community. It takes, as they say, a village to raise a child. I brought up my son on my own with little support while trying to earn an income, juggling things was difficult and money tight. He didn't want to change gender, but he did suffer from depression, especially when he went to university and became more isolated. I don't know if you have come across Gabor Mate, Bessel van der Kolk, Peter Levine and Pete Walker. They write a lot about how complex trauma from childhood affects people throughout life. My point about narcissism is just that is a wider reflection of the woke movement being just about how I feel, nothing else matters. No looking at scientific evidence, just I feel like I'm a woman so I am a woman, end of story. I also don't deny that some people do know that they feel more comfortable as the opposite gender. These issues are complex and also can be very individualistic. My main objections to the woke movement, as with so much concerning them, is that they over simplify complex issues and shut down discussion. They are very totalitarian in the name of equality and diversity. The communists in the 20th century were exactly the same. I lived in the former Soviet Union where they maintained they were doing the best for everyone, and if you didn't understand that you were mad and needed to be sent to a psychiatric institution or gulag. Freedom of Speech has been under pressure in the West from the left in a way I never thought I would see in my lifetime. Heretics are persecuted in a way that is similar to how Galileo was persecuted by the Catholic Church.

[@slacktoryrecords4193]

These identities are a new-ish way for people with narcissistic personality disorder (or people who are merely narcissistic) to assert themselves and make themselves the center of the universe. A large percentage of A G Ps (erotic cross dressers) have NPD. Massive overrepresentation. As for the females, there might be some NPD but there is more autism and Borderline, as well as a history of sexual abuse and other serious disruptions in childhood.

[@neilmetcalfe5261]

Dr Stock should be made a Dame for services to reality! Always intelligent, measured and clear in her views on this divisive issue.

[@ChristineKT61]

Kathleen Stock is a calm reasonable courageous intelligent critical thinker who sees straight through the current ‘trans trend’. Magdalen Berns, was equally courageous and intelligent who offered the fire of women’s resistance, together they ignited the voices of women across the globe. I have so much gratitude to them both. 👏👏👏👏👏

[@jesipohl6717]

.9% of the population is not a trend.

[@lancewalker2595]

I like how everyone just pretends not to notice that fathers have been degraded as “sperm donors” by BOTH the gender identity movement and the feminism that preceded it, so unless I’m being unreasonable in asserting that manhood and fatherhood are more complex and inherently significant than the term “sperm donor” implies, I feel at liberty to point out that this kind of dehumanization is hardly exclusively directed at women. Every objectionable thing that this ideology is doing to women and girls was already being done to men and boys prior to 2015 when the gender insanity begun, it might appear that women and girls are under a disparate degree of attack, but frankly that’s only because: on the one hand, women and girls and the essence of femininity is far less vulnerable to subversion than men and boys and the essence of masculinity are, which makes them a FAR more difficult target; and on the other hand, the attack upon men and boys and masculine identity has been going on for so long that we don’t even notice it as an aberration. The progressive mission to supplant masculinity with misandry has been institutionally and culturally achieved already, what we are now observing is the pursuit to achieve the next item on the progressive agenda: to supplant femininity with misogyny. I will admit that I lament the lack of concern for men and boys, who have been suffering silently in a milieu of misandry for decades now, compared to the much greater and more immediate concern in responding to the same sort of subversion directed at girls and women; but I have some hope that by attacking women and girls the progressive scourge will become necessarily more apparent to people who are (generally) instinctively inclined to notice and respond to the suffering of women and girls. Progressivism is nothing more than the praxis of nihilism, it would benefit humanity greatly to recognize the fact that misogyny and misandry are simply two sides of the same misanthropic coin.

[@JescaML]

What rights do they want that everyone else already has. What they want is special treatment and privileges like an entitled brat. And not take punishment for their actions

[@jomassey4207]

People change in many ways throughour their lives. Its about accepting who you are and getting help with negative thinking. A young person will not necessarily feel the same in 2 yrs time. Lifes experiences change us whether we like it or not. But to make physical changes that have massive impacts on our bodies, is not going to change the way we feel inside. Its all very mythical, like reading fairytales or scarey tales.....and trying to run away from something you never can. Embrace yourself or get help to learn how to. The mind is so adaptive and complex. Far easier to alter thoughts than to change sexes and then in a few years, regret doing it and having medical problems for the rest of your life. I can talk, I had a total hysterectomy at a young age due to it being painfully swollen with disease. Now i have major health problems that I never knew would happen. I'd never promote any hormonal supression, unless to kill cancers. Hormones keep the body working like a clock.

[@jonathangmallender]

Such a great response and so very true. From birth to old age, we grow, change and adapt. As a gay man in his fifties, I've gone through so much that even though I'm e same person as I was when I was young, I'm a completely different person who's evolved because of life. All of this trans gender ideology worries me for today's young people as they're being taken down a dangerous route.

[@Anne_Onymous]

I clicked on this title expecting the typical cringe alphabet propaganda and ended up staying for the whole convo. Interesting discussion thank you!

[@slacktoryrecords4193]

The clue is in the name of the show - Heterodox! (It doesn’t mean ‘heterosexual’, it means diversity of ideas.)

[@fifidownunda]

Kathleen Stock is wonderful. Thanks for the interview 🙂

[@jesipohl6717]

I think Stock is the worst women ever.

[@Amy-ky5wr]

I admire Kathleen immensely. But not just because of the content of what she says. Because of her commitment to truth and clarity, and to intellectual humility. Her commitment to the concept of rational discussion and calm debate, the thrashing out of ideas while respecting all participants, as a means for our society to move closer to truth and clarity about things. How a person with such a quietly spoken and shy sort of demeanour, especially one who is open and willing to discuss ideas and admit if she's wrong and adopt new ideas that make sense, has attracted such a such a large yet vapid protest movement spouting boisterous vitriol, is amazing. But I don't think it reflects badly on her at all. It's just the highschool bullies, who always were devoid of substance, all growed up now. And maybe a few sheep-like NPCs following them.

[@jesipohl6717]

A bully, by definition has more power, the lengths stock supporters go to try to invent this power os absurd.

[@Amy-ky5wr]

@@jesipohl6717 are you able to explain how the opponents of Kathleen Stock who have opposed and intercepted her right to be involved in academic discourse, to the point of forcing her to resign from her career, and making threats of violence and murder forcing her to get CCTV and added security at home, are NOT bullies with power? Seems to me like "highschool bullies all growed up" is a pretty euphemistic term for them. But unlike her bullies, I am not opposed to robust rational and respectful debate with those who think differently, for the benefit of all to widen their minds and better refine their own ideas. And therefore I'd be very happy to hear your further views on it, especially if you disagree with me.

[@Viral9]

@@Amy-ky5wr Since jesipohl is focused on power dynamics, and trans is "intersectionally" oppressed, any critic of trans anything who isn't also trans is automatically a bully, since they're "punching down". Meanwhile, under this framework, it is morally justified for anyone to "punch up". Of course detransitioners are all grifters apparently, so it's not exactly a consistent framework...

[@dyoung1492]

She's right - REALITY MATTERS and we need to get over this nonsense because of its impact on women and children and safeguarding. Being female is not a costume and not a feeling ... grrrr

[@brynagallagher2304]

What is the deal with these MEN?!?! Why are you asking a woman who has received DEATH THREATS where she grew up and where her parents live????

[@sheilaroderick9123]

Well worth a watch. Thanks Kathleen.

[@janicelgo4522]

I'm STILL a bi-sexual tomboy, but at no time did I consider myself male. Social media (and parents) has completely ruined a generation.

[@lawsonspedding6136]

I like this woman, and admire her so much !

[@ebrearley3134]

Kathleen is so brave and the vast majority of women who believe in biology, thank her

[@bludeuce3855]

Dont forget Riley Gaines and JK rowling

[@mariannehavisham8323]

Being trans or a trans ally does not mean you don't believe in biology. That is straw-manning

[@izza_ISFP]

@@mariannehavisham8323 Yes and no. Trans activists and their allies do not believe in biology.

[@sewfairyadhock8618]

@@mariannehavisham8323 Well you'd never know!!

[@jesipohl6717]

​@@bludeuce3855Riley is a trump supporter.

[@max67766]

Such a clear, reasoned, rational speaker. And not a single person has ever landed a good point on her. Because she's right. Dr Stock is a wonderful and inspiring human being. Thank you both for this interview.

[@katespellxx9529]

That was terrific. Thank you both so much. Best thing I learned studying philosophy was that people can reason in all sorts of different ways and to all sorts of conclusions, with all sorts of justifications and we are richer when we make space for different ideas to be heard, and when we learn how to challenge and critique our reasonings and grow our understandings about the world, respectfully and without attacking each other. Kathleen you do this so well. I wish we taught philosophy and critical thinking to little kids in school. I didn't even really know what it was til I was in my 30s... Glad I found out!

[@jesipohl6717]

Most of Stock's fans are not philosophically inclined, her scholarship and inability to show her work are red flags to serious philosophers. Not surprised she quit, she was in over her head as a mediocre philosopher, calling out to pearl-clutchers was a great move to continue her populist career.

[@jonquillejaune]

So grateful for those, like Kathleen, who have had the courage to speak sense. I’m afraid this situation will get much worse before it (hopefully) gets better. It will take more people speaking reality and challenging fantasy.

[@petersolomon5227]

I imagine Kathleen Stock is somewhat weary of stating what is the blooming obvious to most people. Nevertheless she is to be congratulated for her philosophical and psychological clarity. Missing to date however from professor Stock’s public commentary has been an address to the cultural gobbledygook of academics such as “distinguished” professor Judith Butler. What about it professor Stock?

[@ChollieD]

Thank you, Kathleen! You're obviously a great lecturer, and students at U of Sussex are missing out.

[@robjordan63]

Outstanding person, fine interview.

[@goodgrief888]

It’s weird to see our most sacred and oppressed beings now being pushed into the oppressor category. I’m 55 and my entire life Jewish people were the most vulnerable, and LGB people were the most in need to protection. Now many of these two groups of people have been shoved into right wing groups as others have risen up as the most oppressed. Maybe the answer is to celebrate victories instead of continuing to look for the most oppressed and victimized beings.

[@Gullvivas]

The most Vulnerable beings on earth is Animals!

[@Amy-ky5wr]

Not quite sure what you're getting at, you've not been able to clearly express your position, unfortunately. No idea if you're in general support of or general opposition to the discussion in the video.

[@goodgrief888]

@@MyPronounIsGoddess Gee, ya think?

[@goodgrief888]

@@Amy-ky5wr I’m sorry you’re incapable of understanding subtext. Not my problem. Sometimes I forget how stupid most people are. The person two people above you got the point very well. The person after that kinda got it too. But you - you’re different.

[@Amy-ky5wr]

@@goodgrief888 Do you realise your original comment could be interpreted in two totally different ways? Who is the oppressor and who the more-oppressed? You could have meant if you're on the side of trans-activists, that Kathleen and her like-minded lesbian and gay friends are the oppressors of the poor weak trans people who need special cushioning from others' ideas. Or you could have meant the total opposite - the bullying, protesting and cancellation Kathleen and her ilk have experienced by a boisterous noisy mob of gender-ideologues, make the normal LGBs (divorced from the Ts) some of the most oppressed people on Earth. Or you could have meant something totally different again. That's unfortunately what happens when you write in a sloppy manner, no amount of intelligence is going to allow your readers to understand you without further clarification. I gave thumbs-up to both the 1st and 2nd commenters as I agreed with both and they both expressed their points clearly. But they did not indicate that they understood what you meant any better than I did.

[@nicmacmahon5697]

Will listen tonight .. I do feel the tide is turning .. enough is enough

[@GreenWhitePurple]

The “honourable” idea as presented here doesn’t make sense to me. Even if you could depend on people being honourable ( when it’s already been demonstrated that you can’t - otherwise we wouldn’t need anti- doping rules), you would need an endless number of categories for different people and different amounts of medical interventions etc. As KS says, it comes back to just say men and women, keep the anti- doping rules and offer an open category if there’s an interest in that.

[@maevey3]

Imagine being called a pearl clutcher by these ball clutchers!

[@lornocford6482]

"ball clutchers" 😂 good one. I might be using that one.

[@ronaldkable]

What I find offesive about the new trans movement is how it flies in the face of the centuries and still ongoing struggles of women for full human rights and dignity; and how it dismisses the lives of those people who embody both sexes and are often given specific roles in their cultures

[@gabychats]

Thanks for an interesting podcast. I always enjoy KS. cheers

[@HeterodoxAcademy]

Thanks for listening

[@TheVigilante2000]

I don't have a 'gender identity'. I am a male. I feel the way I feel, and I am male. Some people may have body dysmorphia, but that can apply to gender bits or any other bits on your body.

[@wjdeoliveira3809]

It's just a biological reality, just like your height, the colour of your eyes, your shoe size... None of those are an "identity", they are just what I happen to be.

[@mariannehavisham8323]

I think body dysmorphia is somewhat similar to gender dysphoria but it is a different thing -you could have both -eating disorders are quite prevalent in the trans community

[@TheVigilante2000]

@@mariannehavisham8323 Some people may feel like a dog, or feel like Jesus, but normal people just are. I don't feel like a male, I am a male and I feel like myself. If I feel more comfortable looking like a woman, I'm a man that feels more comfortable looking like a woman. I'm not 'really' a woman.

[@babs_babs]

@@TheVigilante2000why do you confuse dysmorphia with dysphoria? someone tried to correct you and you flat out ignored them

[@TheVigilante2000]

@@babs_babs ok, Gender dysphoria an unpleasant mood state. Including depression, anxiety, discontent, irritability, and unhappiness. Still not an identity, just unhappy you're not the other sex. I get it. I'm unhappy I'm not less ugly, but I've learn to live with it.

[@drewenders150]

What a wonderful conversation. Kathleen is so eloquent, clear, and precise and John interviewed and directed the discussion so marvelously well!

[@janewatson8108]

Well said Kathleen. I didn’t know you were so tall! Thanks for standing tall. (From a 1970s Sussex grad - it was all good fun then).

[@ragingzim]

47:35 Kathleen excellently articulates the difficult concept and hazard of making a (false) distinction between ‘real’ and not ‘real’ trans identity.

[@allanbrewer3898]

I love this lady she is talking so much sense and yet there are so many ignorant people that won’t listen and think about the answers she is giving the LGBTQ’s people need to learn about what is going on in the gay community and stop destroying women and their rights as well as the children she is explaining it so well why won’t they listen.

[@babs_babs]

lgbt people aren’t destroying women or their rights.

[@te4110]

No question I would have considered transitioning in the ‘80’s had we had today’s culture - NOT because I thought I was a boy, but because I was a bit of a “tomboy” who liked to play with my brother and his friends (Nerf football, climbing trees, etc.) I also hated the sexualization that came along with becoming an adult woman (eg. porn, which has only gotten more debasing) and because I resented being put down for being too intelligent! “Why can’t you be more simple and sweet and loving?” Sooo offensive.

[@d4hd4h]

you would not have gone through with a transition, don’t kid yourself

[@L_Martin]

@@d4hd4h How many stories from detrans women do you need to hear? Oh right, you never bother to listen to them.

[@sarral2008]

I love Kathleen.

[@jessk7240]

I found the filming of this made it oddly hard to watch. The way they're sitting almost side on and not really facing eachother, the way the window takes up more of the shot than the people, the fact I could see people moving around in the window. But as usual I could still listen to Kathleen all day!

[@pegm5937]

Kathleen's breathy, "wow" at the mention of Iris Murdoch's name immediately sent me to find out who that is. I now own her first novel and can't wait to get into it! Sometimes, technology is pretty fabulous.

[@dyoung1492]

you won't look back ...

[@HeterodoxAcademy]

Glad this episode satisfied your curiosity

[@jesipohl6717]

​@@HeterodoxAcademy poop

[@browndoc]

Clear and concise language as always from Kathleen Stock. The refinement of accuracy of how we speak about this subject is of the utmost importance. Helen Joyce is also brilliant. I hear too many people being too fuzzy with their language, and this can play into the hands of those we need to defeat in this argument. Take stock 😎 and learn something from these two sharp shooters. This all needs to be eradicated asap, for the safety and sanity of the women and girls in our lives. Harm my daughter and it’s war. That’s what men are for right ? 😂

[@sumairshirazi]

If there are more than two genders or sex where are they then ?

[@lornocford6482]

They think that intersex is different sexes. Therefore showing a complete lack of education on basic biology - what a surprise.

[@Shlomohamish]

This interviewer interrupts excessively and consistently asks irrelevant questions.

[@pegm5937]

As I comment in every Kathleen Stock interview, podcast, debate I listen to and/or watch, I have a huge, massive girl crush on her. ❤ Huge.

[@justmy2cents652]

Me too! 😅I'm just at aw. I'd have loved being her student.

[@Sophie20237]

Incredible woman and great discussion

[@grimming4886]

Wow Kathleen Stock is so refreshing. And a very pleasant tone from he interviewer. I'll check out some more videos 😄

[@njigyfd]

Ms. Stock is a voice of penetrating humanity. Thank you Mr. Tomasi. Excellent conversation.

[@jacksprat9172]

Hiya Kathleen you are a fabulous, kind, humane human being, who genuinely tries to help people. The hatred you have been subjected to is so unjust it makes my blood boil. As you said, you don't have many issues with trans people but with trans activists and they are an entirely different thing altogether. Trans activists are evil and are not interested in helping anyone, least of all children who are always the most vulnerable in society. The bullying tactics they use elicits fear out of far too many of your colleagues and probably leaves you feeling isolated but as long as there are people like yourself and Jordan Peterson around who speak the truth then the activist will not win. Every victory you win slows down their progress and helps to keep children safe. Not very long ago the mutilation of children would be considered a most heinous crime and it will be again. When enough people come to their senses or your colleagues find their courage, the monstrous ideology behind this will be put under a spotlight as will the 'people' funding the trans activist movement and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes when it does. Nor would I want to be one of the butchers cutting bits off kids. I know a high percentage of teenage girls have problems with self image during puberty and that is something that has always happened. But now in this day it has become an extremely dangerous time for young women with 'teachers' asking them leading questions and guiding impressionable young minds down a very dark path. What used to be referred to as a tom boy can now lead to real tragedy and those guidance teachers also have a lot to answer for although some of them may actually think they are helping. Lets face it, being a fellow Scot, you'll know most school teachers are thick as mince. Tavistock was shut down when enough people became aware of it. The Cass report and the work you do all help shine a light and for all the intimidation that trans activists and Stonewall are guilty of......................as of today twenty three thousand people have watched this video and virtually all of us are behind you and we are all talking. The Internet is a two edged sword, unlike mainstream media, it cannot be controlled and once the information is out there, it spreads. Whilst they try and curb free speech they will ultimately loose, they just haven't thought it through to a logical conclusion. Equality is something our ancestors strived for and attained. We have had it for many decades and a society that has attained that level of freedom will not give it up. Although both main parties haven't been working for the British Public for about three decades there is light at the end of the tunnel in the Reform Party. Though there is a hell of a lot to be put right the will to do so is growing and the flag that guarantees all our rights, the Union Flag will be dominant again replacing the pride flag and those malign forces that hide behind it hurling abuse. Thank you Kathleen......

[@SexRealityBites]

I love her!🤍

[@tomshotton3046]

Kathleen Stock is a very wise and inspiring person.

[@BN-hk6wf]

Whatever happened to safeguarding in our schools? Ideology trumps the welfare of children?

[@waldemarmarwalde6817]

"Whatever happened to safeguarding in our schools?" What happend? This is what brought us here. Children beeing "safe guarded" against hearing of other ideologies You just not got to be the one the that got to pick which ideologies the children are safeguarded against

[@ladavid7963]

Kathleen is a breath of fresh air from the feminist world we live in. She does not blame everything on men so I’m not sure how to take her. Her belief the young girls are fleeing womanhood and it’s expectations is very insightful.

[@ianwynne764]

Kathleen is incredibly sensible. Thank you.

[@astridjohnson6697]

Without Dr Stock and others, brave enough to counter the gender ideology , we would be heading towards a dystopian reality. I appreciate the clarity, intellect, and courage exhibited by Dr Stock . It sickens me that it is possible in this modern age, for people to be hounded out of positions. It’s exactly like the Salem witch trials. People are burnt on the figurative stake, for having the audacity to voice an apparent truth.

[@sarah2go]

When I was small, the only girl with four older brothers, all I wanted was to be a boy, the whole standing up to pee etc. Puberty hit at 13 and I was totally female! Not a fluffy, little kittens girl, but very happy to be a natural born woman!

[@A.Coe_the_original]

"Material Girls" is a must-read for anyone wanting to understand the trans "debate". Her thinking is coherent, cogent, and compelling.

[@shinywarm6906]

Stock would be far more credible if she honestly represented those positions she opposes. The host invites her to do that at 40:20. But instead of reporting the absolutely commonplace position of - for example - that we are best protected from assault not by the assumption that sex is an automatic safeguard, but by rigorous risk assessment, she first distorts and narrows the question to "finding a trans activist who will say that gender identity is more important than sex but that in certain contexts we should have exemptions". Then she makes the absurd claim that she "has yet to meet one". Anyone whose listened to this whole argument should be aware that there are significant numbers of trans advocates who think that there may be a case for excluding transathletes who experienced male puberty. Perhaps most shocking here is that whilst she criticises "trans rights activists" for allegedly downplaying the risks of assault in prisons, she goes on to dismiss the high suicide rates amongst trans-identified youth. The failure to acknowledge even a legitimate concern or a single cost from insistence on trans-exclusion is likewise unbefitting someone claiming academic rigour.

[@jrr239]

Brilliant interview with the extremely brave & intelligent Kathleen Stock 👏 👏 👏

[@sgscanlan2212]

Excellent.

[@deepoole820]

Then don't vote Labour, this confusion will just get worse.

[@swooningtree]

Possibly, but I believe "this confusion" has occurred during 14 years of the Tories being in power.

[@clovermark39]

Vote Reform for change.

[@iconiclust]

Take out God, chaos and evil enters. The same people who take Him out of public conscience also then complain.

[@HebaruSan]

Kant was German, so the American pronunciation is somewhat less bastardized than the British one

[@meitalsaad7989]

and freedom of speech. You allow celebs and politicians to lie, you allow people to call for a country's distraction u allow profesors to teach your kids lies but a professor can't speak on her point of view ? Why are you so afraid to hear others pov? It's about diversity, isn't it

[@Ed-lian]

Transition Before 2010 it was not common to transition so many people. About in 2012 health insurance covered the costs of hormones and operations. Since that medical professionals use it to make money. In the beginning it was difficult to get these things and to cover the costs. It was required to be sterilized first. If a transidentified male was married to a woman and he wanted to transition, he had to get a divorce first. Because 2 women couldn't be married. But then these obstacles have been improved.. and it got easier and easier. To the point as it is today. Everybody can chose if they want to be registered as female or a male in passports and documents. It a choice, you can chose. I think there are two separate things. The body and the mind. You cant change your DNA or chromosomes or anatomy. A male can never ever give birth. But you can have an identity that you feel you belong more into that group. One is physical body and the other is mentally or a feeling. These people dont fit into the binary sexes. They are a type of people who are different. We should not change sex in the passport. We should add more gender positions to the two main sexes. To make the clear one is physical and the other is mental or socially. We cannot overwrite the devine femininity. By saying the males are the new feminine.

[@jeffreywp]

Very interesting conversation. I thought the topic was discussed well and in a calm respectful manner. I was disappointed with the end of the interview which disparages “the Right” and somehow it is they who are against free speech. In the US, it has been the Left who during this presidency has weaponized the Law against free speech out of fear. Lastly, I Katherine’s comment about the debate she took part in had religious elements to it. Sorry she was raised in a “it’s really about faith” Catholic upbringing. That really has been a great failing of Christianity over this century: Believers failing to understand their Bibles and Faith enough to put forth a reasoned apologetic. Thanks for this discussion. New subscriber.

[@sailboat1921]

An incredible conversation between two philosophers who really know how to get to the heart of each and every issue regarding sex and gender identity. Thank you!

[@LorienzoDeGarcia]

This woman is way more handsome than me. Mr. God, why?!

[@skidcaesar]

Aaaaaaannnnnddd subscribed. 👍🏻 Srsly, this is the most respectful, rational and calm explanation / defense of an idea once taken for granted.

[@Flaxxseed]

Dr Kathleen Stock* The title needs amending :)

[@lco7080]

With all due respect, this isn't going to stop under a Labour government, and KS is still going to vote for them.

[@upnorth2421]

This all has happened on Tory watch.

[@lavienestpasunlongfleuvetr2559]

​@@upnorth2421Labour started it with the Equality Act. The Tories have finally woken up and started to row back on the madness. In sharp contrast, Labour will give it the green light all over again.

[@swooningtree]

As much as I bemoan the influence and effects of gender ideology today, I think it would be pointless to be a single-issue voter on this. And besides, I don't think either Labour or the Tories will realistically do anything substantial and meaningful unless society starts to demand it. I think Labour have a slightly greater tendency towards accountability and would like a different party to finally be in power.

[@dyoung1492]

@@lavienestpasunlongfleuvetr2559 I am hoping that they will have seen what happened to Sturgeon and the SNP in Scotland and take note. Starmer has now stated that a woman is an adult human female (well done!) and they have said they will follow the guidance from the Cass Review. There are too many rising voices that will hopefully stifle this nonsense. I feel extremely political homeless with regard to this matter. The Greens won't get my vote and let's face it, the Tories are toast and Reform ... well, that's really quite unpalatable. And this is where we are ... I wonder if Private Frazer from Dad's Army is right "We're doomed" ...

[@evakatz6351]

My head says vote Labour as I know they’ll do better for vulnerable people than the Tories, but my heart wants to spoil my ballot paper because I’m so angry about how they’ve handled this issue. fyi- Kathleen Stock said yesterday she would vote Labour.

[@brigidlasage]

Cornell faculty should be ashamed. Sheep.

[@TinaJuko]

I hear again and again I didn’t like being a girl, nor did I being a girl can suck especially when your body starts to betray you and boys suddenly want to be boyfriends. I LOVE being a woman it took til my mid twenties to love being me. How can boys and girls be encouraged to wait until they know what it means rather than being terrified of the half way stage.

[@babs_babs]

why the hell do you confuse clinical gender dysphoria with some cis girls feelings weird around puberty? when someone says they struggle with a major depressive disorder, do you yap about how sad you were when your pet hamster died? it’s the same vibe

[@TinaJuko]

@@babs_babs I don’t the Tavistock did don’t confuse feelings with facts read the reports