Battery Extra EX01 vs. 555 Desulfator Kit - 12v Solar Shed

[@giottodiotto1]

I did buy a battery extra desulvator (same as yours) and did use it on several aging sla battery's,for month's at a time, but could not get any positive improvement whatsoever, so I do believe that it's only usefull purpose is to measure the battery voltage, what my multimeter does way more accurately. There is a German made device called "battery plus" with gives pulses in an interval of 15 seconds each time, this device which is not only cheaper, but seems to actually do seem to work as It has been keeping the 75Ah car battery attached to it in good order for more than five years! I've been experimenting with Bedini devices all so in the past and they to can give aging or undercharged sulfate battery's a new live but are tricky to use, I would suggest to check these out for experimenting, general speaking I've given up on lead acid battery's and since I bought a Life Po4 battery don't have the need for desulvator anymore!

[@kainduran3480]

On all that that lead acid batteries you need to have some kind of power going in like a 1 amp charger constantly be charging on top of that the desulfator. Thats how you see results...

[@darrenhague6669]

I built a 555 kit with low voltage cut off some years ago. You do need very thick and short cables so that most of the high voltage spike gets thrown back into the battery. I connected this across a 120ah bus battery and was left for about 3 or 4 months with a trickle charge from a solar panel .... It did clean the plates and brought the battery back to life somewhat. I am not so sure I would use them on those sealed battery's though due to them being more of a paste (wet tissue) rather than an actual liquid electrolyte.

[@darrenhague6669]

Just a quick addition for testing is to connect a diode from the positive of the battery to one side of a non electrolytic cap ... other side of cap to battery negative then test across the cap with a high voltage meter (150v ish) with the desulfator running. The higher the voltage the more sulfated it is .... or so they say !.

[@mosfetangel]

Thank you or the informative video. I would like to mention that there is a objective approach to assess if a desulfator really desulfates a battery, by measuring the internal resistance of the battery under desulfation proccess. You only need to invest on a battery tester (about 35 euro) capable of measuring this critical parameter. A battery under desulfation must present declining values of internal resistance over time. Mesurements of internal resistance taken on a weekly basis can proove the effectiveness of a desulfator or not.

[@michaelthomas3105]

Hi mosfetangel. I did that using a Centec conductance tester. The internal resistances did not get lower after weeks of using desulfators. A guy on KZbin called 'My Playhouse' did that too & said he thought the desulfators he tested were useless crap. CCA ratings obtained by some conductance testers would have a similar effect, but obviously the higher the CCA the better on testers with no resistance measuring feature.

[@zerodegrekelvin2]

Hi Adam, thank you for the measurements on the scope and debunk the Battery Extra EX01 8-), we can see why it is doing nothing. I have used both the 555 kit and another one I bought on Banggood called "Enusic™ 12V 6A Pulse Repair", basically doing the same thing as 555 kit but at more strong voltage pulse, peak at 15 to 16V, all I can say is the 555 and the Enusic work to restore to some degree my old car battery (2014) on a Honda Accord 2003. I have a battery tester that can measure the internal resistance, which gives the "health" of the battery, I made measurement before (28.18 mOhm) and after (12.61mOhm) I can clearly see the internal resistance dropped into the "good" zone, and also the battery maintains better its charge. I just change the same battery for my sister's car and I measure 6.41mOhm on a completely new battery. As you know now because of covid19 we use less the car with work-from-home. Good video you did.

[@haywire17]

Pulse height is going to be directly proportional to the internal resistance of the battery. A high capacity battery that is healthy (low internal resistance) is going to have a low pulse amplitude, while a smaller and / or more heavily sulfated battery (higher internal resistance) will "allow" a higher amplitude pulse measured at the terminals. Hopefully you compared these units side-by-side hooked to the same battery...

[@MrKitesurfercharlie]

I am looking forward to seeing the results. I did think of buying such a gizmo but the reviews of the particular device I was looking at were very negative.

[@untungsuharto7991]

I use one like on the right side...still continued for desulfating my battery. Yes, I get results decrease internal resisten my battery after 24 hour from 31mohm to 24mohm....

[@tbbw]

Thanks for watching... keep your stick in a shed :E

[@AdamWelchUK]

:-)

[@CRUCC22]

In general high voltage spikes doesn't desulfate anything, despite what kind of pulses they are and what kind of devices you use!

[@michaelthomas3105]

I see on the Yachting & Boating World forum that a chap (Maine Sail) has done extensive desulfator like for testing for months on similar age/type batteries & found the same as me.The desulfators he tried did not improve the batteries any more than an equalization charge /cycling. He used proper discharge testing methods & was hoping for some improvements, but didn't get any.

[@AdamWelchUK]

+Michael Thomas That's interesting to hear and much the same as my suspicions. Thank yoi for that.

[@xanataph]

I'm with you Adam. I am sceptical of the benefits of any desulphator units. Although not to the point where I am done experimenting with them. Let's just say "the jury's out".. lol However, the scope patterns of that Battery Extra tend to suggest it's pretty much snake oil. I would dare say you have saved me a few bucks, as I was almost rearing to purchase one based on the opinions of some down-under "solarists". Yes, I should know better! rofl I think a better desulphator unit is one which derives it's energy externally from the battery, like the mains. That way it can keep the battery topped up as well as desulphating. The best unit I ever made was from a 50 volt garden light transformer with a 555 simply gating an output transistor on & off. No dicey flyback action. I would really like to play with that unit again however it seemed to disappear during our move from Foxton Beach all those years ago...although the xformer did show up. Also I have made many units based on neon bulb thresholds discharging a cap. Not sure if they work that well, I suspect the spike is not sharp enough. In case anyone wants to know where this whole idea came from - it's from farmers! Back in they day they found that connecting a duff battery to an electric fence for a month or two could often revive it. So I would suggest if anyone is really serious about desulphating experiments to get a surplus electric fence controller. See, the problem is that you can make a voltage as high as you like, but if it is high impedance when you connect it across something that is low impedance (e.g. a car battery) the voltage will fall to a very low value. Basic ohms law. If you want a massive spike it has to be delivered at a high impulse current. I suspect an electric fence controller would do that for you. Oh, and if you're gonna charge a battery while a (flyback based) desulphator is connected, run that charging current through an inductor, but with the desulphator unit connected directly to the battery. That way you can be sure none of that precious spike is heading back towards towards your charging source.

[@AdamWelchUK]

I just haven't seen compelling evidence to say they work - you'd think one of the big names would provide some conclusive proof, but they talk about the theory and show a picture of some clean looking plates. Why has no one built a clear sided battery and done a time lapse for example? The jury is out but I think I'll enjoy testing them out. Cheers for the information and explanation - I really enjoy your comments, you always seem to have an interesting story to tell!

[@xanataph]

You know, I think I did see KZbin video once of someone running one with one of those clear case batteries. But it wasn't timelapse from what I can remember. Maybe they just swapped batteries?

[@deslomeslager]

If you don't mind the noise, you can use a relay which is disconnecting itself all the time. Catch that spike and there you have it. I don't like that noise so I usually use a dc to HV converter at a fairly low output, using a Gas Discharge Module (you could also use a small spark gap or even a small neon light). Of course, I do am powering these devices from an external source (usually a small solar panel, 2 Watt or less). I do think higher voltage peaks do a much better job. But I do have a couple of very sulphated batteries (Gel) which I can not recover. I also have a car battery (36 Amps or so) with just one bad cell, and it just will not recover. So I do agree partly: handle your batteries with care. Don't keep them discharged over a to long period.

[@AdamWelchUK]

Cheers - I'll be interested to see what I can find between the two devices. It's not an exhaustive test but may at least allow me to form a better opinion based on a few facts!

[@CornishMiner]

Sulphation is only really likely to be an issue if batteries are not reaching a fully charged state. Batteries that are regularly charged fully will not develop crystalline deposits on the negative plates. These pulse gadgets are unproven scientifically. They will work on batteries that have soft sulphation, but then fully charging, perhaps even overcharging (2.5 to 2.6V per cell) will have the same effect. Batteries with hard sulphation have been badly treated and have not been allowed to reach a fully charged state for a long period of time. Best wishes.

[@AdamWelchUK]

Thanks. That's pretty much my feelings too, but I haven't really seen any conclusive tests - I might not be able to prove anything either way either, but at least I will have tried and will have some experience on which to base an opinion!

[@michaelthomas3105]

Adam I think you & Cornish Miner are spot on. Knurlgnar 24 isn't impressed by desulfatsted either. He states 'desulfators don't have to work to patent them'. 'My Playhouse' tested them & found them not to work. I have loads of 12 v batteries. Nothing I have tried works any better than a slow trickle charge for AGM's or a 15.8v or so equalization overcharge (current limited) for wet cells. I just can't see a pulse of a few hundred millivolts having much effect.Any desulfation apppears to ta

[@michaelthomas3105]

Sorry my computer (or me!) is playing up. Any desulfator appears to take months to work. I 've tried 3 desulfators & used equipment where you can set the load & cut off voltage. It then gives an accurate reading on the display in amp hours. So far desulfators have just done nothing . Before & after conductance readings showed the same. Shame, but no luck so far.

[@mrjohhhnnnyyy5797]

I somewhat revived old battery by using such charging algorithm: charge it for 2 seconds, then discharge for 1 second, repeat. Left it overnight doing that, the battery now seems more conductive (voltage sags less when you load it). I also built the same 555 desulfator. It's not a kit, but the same circuit. Long story short - I didn't see any noticeable improvement using that gimmick.

[@AdamWelchUK]

Interesting. I expect this will take a while to conclusively test. I hope I can be bothered in a few months time to carry on!

[@mrjohhhnnnyyy5797]

The problem is that if there is an effect, it's pretty mild. Thus it requires a lot of time, can't resurrect dead batteries and so on. Another problem is that these things discharge the battery, so you should keep an eye on it. It's ridiculous to desulfate the plates and then let this thing discharge the battery, thus sulfating them again LOL That trick I told you about gave a result that I can see easily after running overnight. The plates in the battery see AC while doing that, I guess that knocks off those crystals exposing active surface. Just a hunch, but seems logical.

[@AdamWelchUK]

+MrJohhhnnnyyy It does seem logical and also roughly what the battery extra seems to be attempting. I'll have to think how I can charge and discharge them as evenly as possible while running the different devices. Hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew! Of cause the whole thing of cycling the batteries in the test may well improve the performance!

[@michaelthomas3105]

I built a set up using a mechanical timer & a relay to switch a 12 v lamp load on for a few hours then change over to a non smart (old fashioned ) trickle charger of 1.5 amps max to cycle the battery in parallel with the desulfator. The desulfator made no difference compared to similar tests done with cycling /trickle charging alone.

[@mrjohhhnnnyyy5797]

Michael Thomas I'm glad to see you saying that, it means this method gives you an improvement you can spot.

[@Luke-san]

Maybe a weird question, but can you show us the connection where you measured? As far as I understand there is a certain loss over the wires and connectors which is understandable. A bigger battery should have a lower internal resistance and as a results the peaks will be smaller making a more powerful desulfator desirable. But how much is enough?

[@AdamWelchUK]

Where I connected the oscilloscope probe? The was directly to the battery terminal - and the desulphator(s) were connected directly to the terminals with spade connectors. How much enough indeed!

[@oldtimeengineer26]

I have often wondered if the over priced one really works? Many people keep telling me they do but 80mv is nothing in my book. I think your is better I should build one for my 48v system.

[@AdamWelchUK]

They are highly regarded by a few youtubers but I'm yet to be convinced. I have the same feelings as you, but always prepared to eat my hat!

[@Mosolarfan]

was hoping you would open it up and see what you bought

[@AdamWelchUK]

+The Left Hand Yeah I was worried that might be a bit destructive though and I'm interested to test it. Perhaps once I've tested it for while.

[@TheBlackadder-Edmund]

For the drop on voltage due to the cable, have you tried a wider cable? For disulfation, the method I have found works best (car batteries with maintenance option) is equalisation at 15V. Cost is minimal as I do it with used car batteries and a 15V 5A with a second hand laptop charger (after having charger as much as possible with the car battery charger and using a fan to cool dowl the laptop charger). Well... to be fair I have only done this twice and with the necessary precautions, will try to upload someday.

[@AdamWelchUK]

When I built the 555 Desulfator I drilled the holes in the PCB to get thicker guage cable in there - so hopefully it's performing as well as it can. I can't do much with the battery extra (I think opening it up may well destroy it - but perhaps after fully testing it I may rip it apart). I've just been looking again at an old lead acid smart charger I bought years ago for my motorbike. Like you suggest it does a high voltage charge in it's 'recovery' phase if it detects a sulfated battery. Obviously the makers agreed with your method. Cheers

[@dragan3290]

Could you biuld a frequency generator with a power supply? Adjust to larger spikes? Quicker timebase? I've had that thought but I'm not experienced enough to do this! Lol. Top job 🙂👍👍👍

[@tsb3093]

My experience with Battery Extra same as others commenting on this video. It was completely useless at reviving old 12V car batteries. Wish I had returned it.

[@RWBHere]

Sounds like smoke and mirrors to me, Adam. As others have said, the best thing is to look after batteries properly in the first place. * I've partially recovered sulphated gel batteries by prolonged constant current trickle charging - in the order of 50-100 mA for a 12Ah battery. Done with excess voltage, and immediate reduction when voltage spikes began to happen. Later in the process, I limited voltage to about 2.25 Volts per cell, until fully charged. An example: One 12V gel battery was received dead flat and unable to accept a sensible charge. After several weeks it had a capacity of around 9-10 Ah, and it was used normally for three or four years after that. * Out of interest, does vibration (ultrasonic, perhaps) have any useful effect on sulphate layers? Thanks.

[@patrikalexander2521]

Did you manage to test for real on sulfated batteries? Checking specific gravity and CCA (cold cranking amps) before and after treatment. I didn't find any video where you mentioned at the end of this video you had 3 sulphated batteries to test on. There is a company that claims that they completely dissolve sulphated batteries, American Batteryminder.

[@lutfisaleh4659]

sorry I can't hear the last minute tell me pls wech one better thanks

[@FireballXL55]

I have built one from a circuit online, it provides 600mV pulses at approx 1kHz. To be honest I have not found it to provide any benefit at all, but I have only tried it on AGM batteries.

[@iantheinventor8151]

How did the desulfators go, did you try them on the batteries?

[@narmenia]

I think the battery extra manufacturers expect you to install it on the car along with a newish battery to keep the health good.

[@Blakehx]

So what are your recommendations regarding sulfated batteries? Thanks!

[@jimmybrad156]

i bet you bought a new car battery in the last 7 years :)

[@cayrick]

Adam thanks for the video. I am upset that my Battery Extra is ordered and on its way. Your video begs the question- is there an optimal pulse size, frequency and duration for battery desulfation or is the whole concept of desulfation and battery restoration with an electric module just hocus pocus?

[@richardballinger517]

I tried one of these battery extras, I put my scope on it and all I was seeing was 100mV spikes, absolutely useless. Re long leads, I would have sent it back but missed returning it in time so I cut the leads down but still SHITE. Don't waste your money on it. I'm an electronics engineer so am looking into this as I have several motorcycles/ batteries to look after.

[@johnturner9561]

Hi Adam I purchased one of these, connected it up and all was fine for the first week. Then I noticed the led was not on and checked the fuse and it was blown, after replacing the fuse I connected it up and this fuse lasted for two seconds.So I then started checking for problems and found that 470 ohm and the 22k resisitor were bad I replaced both and and replaced the fuse reconnected it and this fuse lasted for 2 seconds. Do you have any ideas on what the problem may be.

[@jms019]

Is the reason the pulse looks so low that you’re using a DSO and at that scale what you see is an average over a sampling period. So zoom in and let’s see the pulse properly. About to start playing with a kit on my few year removed car battery which is pretty shagged

[@kainduran3480]

This is my story.. I I bought 2 desulfators from ebay..very similar to the ones of this tile "Desulfator Circuit Board " from Mad Electronic Engineering.look them up in KZbin....i I couldn't figure out how to order or make them my self ...so i use these and had very great succes i desulfated around 12 battery deep cycle.the desulfator take a long time around 60 days .and they do work....if you understand how to order let me know...i need a few...

[@tocrob]

The same board design from AliExpress ... www.aliexpress.com/item/32295560968.html ( USD$8.30 shipped ) .

[@solarfunction1847]

How long did you cut the battery extra leads

[@AdamWelchUK]

About half as long as they were originally. About a foot long I'd suggest. Agreed the shorter the better however the oscilloscope image sent over by them suggests that they think spikes in the mV's are normal!

[@solarfunction1847]

Ok, so shortening will improve them is all that matters really.

[@87xfute]

Hi Adam I bought a Battery Extra EX01 for my system here in Australia and at almost $100 aus it pretty bloody useless I think !! I'd like to try the 555 desulfator to see how it works, on ebay there's someone selling them assembled ready to go for $16 aus !! Do you rrecon there worth getting ? Seeya Rob

[@AdamWelchUK]

Cheers - I was a bit shocked when I saw how small the peaks were, I guess time will tell. Think I'll miss the 60 day money back guarantee window though!

[@michaelthomas3105]

Hi Adam, my Battery extra packed in just after the 60 day period but they were happy to give me a full refund anyway.Nice enough chap their Dan, but their desulfater was giving the small pulse output on my 'scope for weeks, yet still did not improve the battery capacity. Loads of people seem to think these desulfaters are working & restoring their batteries, but often appear to be basing this on nothing more than a voltage check with a multimeter, so it could be wishful thinking. I built one from a kit from Courtiestown. I used 6mm square cables 9 inches long. It gives a voltage spike higher than the Battery Extra & the Infinitum one I tried ,but none gave any improvement on the batteries I tested them on for weeks.I just think these things are 'snake oil', or at best have a slight effect over many months, so are not worth the bother, unless somebody can prove to me otherwise.

[@michaelthomas3105]

I am an electronics engineer. I have tested the 12 V Battery Extra & it did not have any effect on the Yuasa 70 AH battery I tested it on after several weeks. To be fair I checked & it originally gave a visible waveform on an os

[@michaelthomas3105]

My Battery Extra originally gave a visible waveform on an oscilloscope but packed in completely within 2 months. I have conductance meters & an automatic battery load discharge tester. No desulfators I have tried have worked on AGM batteries to any degree I could measure. I note

[@andreasmeyer9011]

Dieser Akkupulser bringt wirklich etwas. Arbeitet mit entladepulsen. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmjCdJtprdN1gJY Schaltpläne sind auf dem Kanal auch vorhanden.

[@TheFlyre]

hey can i add mhz?

[@NitroGuyJH]

Your videos remind me of Julian ilett

[@AdamWelchUK]

I’m a fan of his. He’s also been good enough to recommend my channel on numerous occasions.

[@tomswift26]

Maybe if the battery was put in an ultrasonic cleaner......

[@smileypete4625]

The desulphators from Courtiestown Marine look a lot more powerful than the EX01. There's a desulpator forum out there, just google for Yuku Desulfator Forum, enough reading there for some time. :-)

[@michaelthomas3105]

Hi smileypete. I built the Courtiestown desulfator & yes my 'scope showed the pulse is a fair bit higher voltage than the Battery Extra.Sadly it hasn't improved the batteries I have tried it on.I haven't tried leaving one connected for over 3 months like Darren Hague did with a solar panel, just got no improvement after a few weeks. I'll try it longer. You wouldn't want to leave an AGM or GEL battery on charge at more than 13.8v though for months ,so you'd need to check it regularly in case it dried out due to excess voltage(GEL especially don't fare well above 14.4 v even for a day or so)

[@smileypete4625]

Would have thought for best results the batt should be held at a fully charged state while the desulphator is being used, and even then it will take some considerable time. Not easy to do with a batt that's actively being used, and of course it can't reverse any damage to battery plates. Seems the desulphator allows the batt to be exposed to higher than normal charge voltage which most off the shelf chargers can't do, or can only do without safely limiting current. Though a lot of the commercially sold desulphators seem to be a bit weedy and sold at inflated prices alongside snake oil like claims.... I've had some success with a non sealed battery by doing a mild EQ for a couple of half hour periods a day then trickle charging for 24/7 in between, but it did take a long time.

[@michaelthomas3105]

Hi Smileypete, I think these desulfators are so slow that that if they work at all they'd need to be connected for months & even then the improvements are likely to be slight. Equalizing wet cells at 15.5 -16 volts has been proven to restore battery capacity. Manufacturers like Varta & Rolls recommend doing it. I've never seen a manufacturer suggest using a desulfator. An old fashioned battery charger set to trickle with a series resistor of a few ohms to limit the current, has 'brought back' some sulphated batteries to an extent for me after a few days to a week. You'd think that in these days of conductance testers, loads of guys would be showing the 'magic' results they've got from their desulfators, but they don't seem to be. I'd love these boxes to work. Having bought 2 & built one from a kit, it's annoying to find they've done bugger all after weeks, but that's my experience.My experience of chemical additives is that they might give a short term improvement to a useless battery, but will shorten the lifespan if added to batteries that are reasonably new & in good condition. regards.

[@omegarugal9283]

Dead batteries, fully disrcharged that have been stored for months will not return to it`s original state, only slighty sulfated ones can be restored to a usable state, never good as new but close

[@robertdixon6536]

Desulfator are a scam.

[@bobgreene2892]

I gave it a thumbs down-- not for your content, but for the ads which offer "SKIP AD" but do not respond. The name Adam Welch is now associated with mandatory advertisement, and will be avoided.