Adult Children of Alcoholism Alcoholic. Different from Self-Love Deficit Disorder. Codependency ACOA

Because of so many people confuse codependency / Self-Love Deficit Disorder with Adult Children of Alcoholism, I created this video to straighten things out. In it I explain the differences between ACOA (ACA's) and SLD's (Codependents). As much as there are similarities and common traits, these two groups are quite different.
Ross Rosenberg M.Ed., LCPC, CADC latest book, The Human Magnet Syndrome: The Codependent Narcissist Trap (2018) and his personal development, seminars, workshops, and other services can be found at his Self-Love Recovery Institute company, www.selflovere...
Ross is a psychotherapist, educator, expert witness, and author and is known globally for his expertise in codependency (Self-Love Deficit Disorder™), Pathological Narcissism, Narcissistic Abuse and Trauma Treatment.
His book, “The Human Magnet Syndrome” sold over 120,000 copies and is translated into ten languages. Ross’s KZbin channel has amassed over 19 million video views and more than 200K subscribers. He is a keynote speaker and educator who has presented educational workshops in 30 States/70 cities and abroad. Ross has been regularly featured on national TV and radio.
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[@MT-tx7bu]

It's hard for the ACOA because we were not children that were given the fundamental right to be that. We became the overseer's, the helpers, the therapists. We became so hyper-vigilant. We knew, as children, we were good. We also knew that our parents weren't going to protect that. Even as I grew into the woman I am today, I had to come to terms with supporting my own beliefs about myself. I am a good, thoughtful, compassionate person. The day came when I realized that what my father had and was saying about me wasn't true. I turned my focus on me, by getting help and being almost over-the-top compassionate with myself. You have to be! That's how you learn to see the value in other's when they can't see it in themselves. If alcohol was a choice for your parent, make a better one for yourself. Choose to love yourself.

[@RossRosenberg]

Thanks for sharing Mary.

[@pannellclara]

every ACOA had a different experience so we’ve had different issues! some similar but not all the same

[@angelinakokott4041]

I feel this so deeply. Thank you for sharing.

[@teriboyd917]

Thank you for sharing. I can relate.

[@yvettewhite3983]

100%agree and even at 8 giving advice or a request to stop his habits he’d love it because it meant I loved him. But then he’d laugh and throw his head back when he continued with the habit - like laughing in your face…my care didn’t mean anything. So I stopped, deflated, disillusioned. Empty.

[@philc4520]

I relate. My mum was an alcoholic. She never was able to be there emotionally or physically for us. Never able to express physical affection. I ended up becoming an alcoholic too. But I’ve been in recovery & sober for nearly 8 years now.

[@janetrobinson8925]

I am 8 years sober in June! Best thing I ever did was get sober, thank you for sharing.

[@dianeibsen5994]

Can you help me understand how that works? But you're watching this person ruin there life and yours with alcohol, I would think you'd want to run from alcohol?

[@Pecan215]

Congratulations, @philc4520!!

[@deb9784]

So proud of you! You've overcome so many obstacles in your life! What a champion!

[@clearday9525]

"Self love deficit" is the best and most compassionate way I've ever heard co-dependency described.

[@rachelmoore5079]

Yes i agree, it’s much easier to understand too

[@clearday9525]

@@stevenhaack3547 It's okay to think of it that way. Compassion is part of love anyway. Sometimes emotional abuse can leave you not even knowing what love is, let alone able to love yourself.

[@Curious1304]

sld is codependency, even if you wish to rebrand the terms to sell your book

[@clearday9525]

@@Curious1304 Self love deficit is an easier term to understand for me. Codependency makes me think of being guilty of something.

[@RedPillsAreGood]

Interesting. I'm 29, male. My father I assume is a malignant narcissist. Always had a temper, he would get triggered easily and raise his voice, he would literally sound what I think Satan would sound like. He wouldn't drink every day but maybe 3-5 times a month. When he did drink then all hell would break loose. He would abuse all of us, meaning myself my sisters and mother. He would cause trouble with neighbors, strangers on the streets. He was a disaster. He never taught me anything, never formed a bond with me. I was neglected emotionally, threatened by him multiple times, he has verbally abused me in the most disgusting ways, the things he would say I rather not to repeat here, once tried to kill me, wanted to have a street fight with me (this was when I was in my early 20s)... Im still trying to figure out if I am codependent, or sldd.. I've definitely been dependent on others many times, I was always a people pleaser, super "nice".. I was naive, easily taken advantage of by so called friends.. I was attracting the wrong type of people in the past. Now I'm becoming aware of everything and making better choices in my life. No more narcissistic "friends". Looking forward to the video!

[@dischargesummary8794]

RedPillsAreGood way to go

[@cindyfarmer1619]

Wow you described my dad .I grew up being needy I understand you well .I was so gullible and naive too.I pray for you to find peace. 🕯🙏

[@RedPillsAreGood]

@@cindyfarmer1619 thanks, I'm definitely doing a lot better now that I've grown up and started learning all about this stuff. Hope you are doing well too.

[@julie-annjameson721]

🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼 Sounds like my Dad.

[@RedPillsAreGood]

@Ange Lom thank you, I'm thankful and looking forward to growing through the coming years ahead.

[@MemoryChronicles]

Both parents where alcoholics and mother is a narcissist 🤦🏽‍♀️ out of it all I married a wonderful man! We have peace in our home! It’s weird because my husband is like the mother and father I never had and it’s not why I married him lol but I realize how it all worked itself out! From growing up in a very toxic, chaotic, violent home in my childhood to being currently in a loving, peaceful home! With support I never had as a child!

[@bettywillbrowse]

That sounds like the fantasy dream we all have but never actually get .... So you were lucky, 1 in a million chance. I'll be honest, I'm a little bit jealous 😁😀😉

[@pannellclara]

is that even possible?

[@bettywillbrowse]

@@pannellclara I wondered the same

[@tmr8043]

Same ...thank god

[@Christina_Hira]

You’re blessed. I grew up in your same situation too. I’ve been in and out of so many long term relationships that I thought and hoped would be “the one”

[@jendavis9374]

Hmmmm. I am definitely a child of alcoholics. Not a day has gone by in almost 37 years. I am also so codependent. I will do absolutely anything for most people and I am so lonely 😔. I am also suffering from depression

[@dischargesummary8794]

Jen Davis you can get through it

[@jaysrabbitholejaysonallen7989]

That sounds just like I could have written it....I understand that feeling

[@catsjavachat6565]

Same.

[@brynleytalbot778]

It's also prevalent in a child of narcissistic parenting. Like alcohol the preferential treatment goes to the Golden Child though just enough to maintain credibility goes to the scapegoated child. In the end we hate ourselves for the things we willingly do for others finding, in the end, we're being used for their benefit. We attract wounded others, seeking to heal them, or exploitative others, seeking to serve them. It's a fragile house of cards.

[@caudery2]

Jen Davis allow yourself to receive help that is available.Alanon ( for family and friends of alcoholics is a good place to start ....google Alanon . Any type of art or craft is also great for you . Good luck and look after yourself .

[@Alicia-gp7nh]

Wow, just happened to run across this video and I don't know whether to jump for joy or to cry! I am 52 years old and the adult child of an alcoholic father. Everything you said in the video was true. My home was anything but quiet or predictable. I learned very early to walk on eggshells and look for places to hide in case my father came home drunk. My mother, was not an enabler though. She would actually fight my father and protect my brother and sister and I. He never hit us, but we did feel the emotional abuse, neglect and abandonment. I've been in three relationships in my life. Two were marriages - 14 years apart and both were very emotionally abusive. Finally, I realized that I must be the problem since I keep attracting abusive men and have resolved to stay single. I'm happier and calmer when I'm alone. No abuse to worry about! Love comes to me from my family and friends. I'm happy, I ran across your video. I bought your book and plan on reading it this weekend. I thank you for your work and compassion with this issue!!!

[@RossRosenberg]

Thanks for sharing Alicia. Hope Ross's book helps you. For more of Ross's resources, please visit humanmagnetsyndrome.com/hmsblog/ and www.selfloverecovery.com/

[@rosalindmillar9278]

Thank you Ross...I'm an ACA. I have been in recovery for 18 years with Alanon & ACA 12 step programmes. You cleared up alot of questions I had... I just made a decision to leave a relationship as I was using my boundaries ( at last ) and he didn't like it but I found out where I stood and decided to end it.. .I had the strength to stick to what I wanted, as I've always been a people pleaser, but no more...it's so freeing..

[@sianmegginson8110]

So true, my Mother was an alcoholic and I married an alcoholic. You live what you learn. I am now very wary of any relationships.

[@selah71]

I'm wary of relationships, too. So I live a quiet and peaceful life that I cherish.

[@faithevolution552]

Living with war wounds, I have symptoms of all of the personality and mood disorders. I can't thank you enough for your work. You're videos are insightful and they are saving my life. I'm looking for an online ACoA group today.

[@RossRosenberg]

Thanks for sharing and glad this is helpful. Keep up the good work!

[@Bubblies005]

I’m a child of narcissistic alcoholic and a co addict empathetic narcissist. Being raised in that environment made me an empathetic SLD (codependent). I am a passive ACA which caused my severe dissociation and imagination to get out of control. I have made friends with mostly narcissists that physically and verbally abused me from elementary school to college age. Today I have several mental health problems and I am on medication and seeing a therapist. Since then I am able to cope better and have more productive relationships. To anyone out there struggling I want you to know you are not the only one going through this.

[@merrym7174]

Well, now I know why I'm so screwed up. I think all of these conditions were present. I have been affected by every area you mentioned. It's a wonder I have my sanity, but it's also no surprise on days I don't. Furthermore, I have jacked-up siblings that added insult to injury, literally. My sibs have done as much damage as my parents. It's really F'd up. My seven sibs could have been the wonderful healing balm to my soul, just simply loving one another and understanding one another. Sadly, that didn't happen. So basically, I'm an orphan. Both parents deceased, and no caring siblings in my life. I married twice. Both alcoholics. So, unfortunately, I passed this crap onto my wonderful children. My children who I treasure more than anything, were also affected. They have all done extremely well in the social realm. They have great friends and relationships. They are all successful. That doesn't mean they didn't have issues; it just means they dealt with them. They did far better than me. My struggles are still a daily thing. Some days better than others. But I still would like to be healed and feel whole. I'm 68. I hope it's not too late for me. I long to be happy. I long to have reciprocity in a relationship. If I could find the right therapist to deal with all of this in Cincinati, I would go. Please send a suggestion if you know of someone here. My issues stem from emotional attachment trauma, emotional neglect and emotional abandonment. I have struggled with severe loneliness. I want so much to experience true love and happiness before I leave this planet. Thank you for the video. It was extremely enlightening. God bless you and your work to help so many hurting people. Your "calling" is a real mission field. The world is full of us. Some want help; but many others prefer to not know or deal with it. Some feel threatened with the idea of facing it and choose to ignore it. It's a sad mess. But I guess there is a measure of hope, if you can find the right therapist for psychotherapy. God bless you, and thank you for your life's work.

[@apple4914]

Self love deficit disorder, codependency and I'm an adult child of an alcoholic. This explains a lot! I also have anxious attachment style and either chose emotionally unavailable partners, dismissive avoidant, codependent ones, socioptaths, psychopaths or narcissistic ones. A step up in my love life has been my dismissive avoidant who is also emotionally available.

[@RossRosenberg]

Thanks for sharing Crystal. Glad this content is helpful.

[@valentinavadillo]

Yes my dad as an alcoholic is super codependent and my mom a narcissist not an SLD. As an ACA I did notice I was not the same as a codependent or other ACAs. This video is very clarifying and confirming. Thank you!

[@RossRosenberg]

Thanks for sharing Valentina!

[@markbusby9709]

What a shame this wasn't a better recording, have been looking for something on this subject for a long time, not enough is said about ACOA'S . I was married to a woman who's mother was an alcoholic (heavy) also a father who was keen on drink and aggressive, apart now for 10 years I have tried to piece together what she was, difficult as I accept I was in a trauma bond relationship, I couldn't see the wood from the trees, yet new something was wrong, with separation and hard work and learning to look after/love yourself I have moved on..... Thank you Ross

[@yuk498]

check out Jerry Wise Relationship Systems

[@Divine_Beauty-uh9xi]

Definitely codependent, hoping to find better ways of dealing with the attachment issues resulting from childhood emotional neglect.

[@michaellemmen]

This is so devastating. 27 ACA here. I am floundering in life. No intimate relationships, narcissistic tendencies, hyper-compassionate, chronic over thinker, just to name a few. Mom was/is alcoholic. Dad is co-addict. This is seriously so devastating realizing all this. I’m considering confronting my parents, but I’ve briefly tried before and it did no good. Plus the damage has been done. It really is devastating. Idk why else to say. Been to many therapists, tried all forms of self-help. I just don’t like living my life this way. Why did my parents have children?

[@duncanbug]

I feel the same way. I confronted them… they are aware and trying to work on it.

[@CorePathway]

“Plus the damage has been done”. Exactly. If your parents were miraculously healed today, and were available, genuine and loving today and tomorrow, that will do fuck all to heal the child that had to hide from chaos 23 years ago. It’s about you. Don’t take on their pain until you’ve cleared up yours

[@truthspeaks623]

You're parents had children so they would have someone to love them, and someone to take care of them in old age. You show a lot of self awareness, and with self awareness you can redirect yourself, as I am.

[@deb9784]

michaellemmen, I suggest that like me, you concentrate on you! Your healing. Learn to love yourself, decide who you desire to be, what your priorities are! I'm still I the process, but I have found my relationship with the LORD Jesus helped me find greater healing and forgiveness!

[@catsjavachat6565]

I would like to see a video if one parent was an alcoholic, and your other parent is so high on the narcissistic scale, they very well maybe a sociopath, how that affects a child and how it then affects that said child as an adult.

[@brynleytalbot778]

I know someone with what I suspect to be that combination. A brilliant graduate from the best U.K. university but they've been twisted by narcissists into forms to suit them destroying their fragile self identity to foster and validate their superior grandiose lifestyle and aims. An amazing generous, kind, empathetic, caring, person but lacking a self identity after they've unmasked the troubles they experienced and been too clever in seeing the falsehoods perpetuated against them. I'm very much in love with them but I too have codependency issues. Sometimes I think that that's the ultimate solution. That they find the love in each other they can't find in themselves and that creates the love they lack thus turning the trials of the past inside out and dissipating them. The main issue will be a double abandonment should the alcoholic parent die and the narcissistic parent abandon the child as they seek supply elsewhere. You have one parent dependent on alcohol, perhaps due to the narcissist driving them to despair. The narcissist will play both saviour and martyr. Perhaps saviour to the child, gaining supply and admiration, and martyr to the alcoholic parent, gaining supply and admiration. The narcissist will probably feed the alcoholic dependency as it benefits them until it embarrasses them and they part to find less strenuous effortless supply from another partner. The child will gain abhorrent attachment models from both parenting styles. As an adult they'll have two conflicting models within. Success from the narcissist driving them, failure from the alcoholic collapsing them, each dominating at points of life. It's not the best home environment and, as I've seen, soon leads to collapse, though it's denied and concealed.

[@acer4237]

It’s a long road for them, the narcissist never sees any wrong and can continue to daunt their adult child. But once they stand up to that person, it’s possible to be happy. My hubby detached from narcissist after years of tolerance in adulthood and sadly the alcoholic passed away. But he is a wonderful guy.

[@gail9566]

My dad was an alcoholic who eventually quit. My mom is a dyed in the wool narcissist.

[@freetobememe4358]

You know just hearing this I realize we the ones suffering is by what was done to us, an effect of. But we berate ourselves as if it’s our fault that relationships fail.

[@fragosa]

My sister thinks like you, but I wonder if our parents decide to blame their parents for becoming SLD, narcissists, alcoholics.. an so on.. Than we can never be truly happy!

[@GeorgeLaFavor]

I am very grateful for your information you've lovingly shared, thank you. I am almost 65 years old and have struggled in my own living hell all these years wondering why. I can relate to both ACA and SLDD. I've experienced every negative action against me as a child. I finally understand why I'm missing 5+ years of childhood memories from age 6 to 11, why I never fit or thought I didn't, and why I've always chosen to self medicate to block out and numb as I got into my teen years. I consider myself very fortunate to have made it this far with all I put myself thru and been thru. I have always said, a day without learning is a wasted day. Thank you again Dr. Ross, you give me hope I long since left behind.

[@RossRosenberg]

Thank you for sharing and your support George.

[@Gwen13061]

The alcoholic in the family was predictable. The narcissist was the one who was unpredictable. The alcoholic was the kind and gentle parent. The narc was the involved parent who did all the child rearing

[@marypaulosky2214]

And the narc was extremely bitter about being the only involved parent. So much so that she took it out on her youngest daughter. She threatened to leave all during my childhood. Then, when I turned 18, that is exactly what she did. Came home and she was gone. Just started therapy FINALLY (I'm 59).

[@patriciabentley850]

So true. Al Anon helped, this is what I need now.

[@roseannereddy9687]

Yet all these labels describe people who may have been doing their best to do the right thing, while carrying loads of trauma passed down to them, through generations of people struggling to survive. I think blame and labelling can be very hurtful and unhelpful. We are not objects. I say this as a recovering alcoholic (35 years sober) adult child of an alcoholic parent. These complex issues impact real people's lives.

[@dominus6695]

Therapists make it complex-ish. It can be interesting in that way, but some people just use psychedelics or nutrients to heal.

[@m.filmtrip]

People through around these terms way too much.

[@dlwsport250]

Thank you in advance for sharing this.

[@athena3865]

I am a teetotaler as I witnessed the damage of what alcohol did to both my parents and the effect it had on all of their children. Father was a narcissist and mother was a BPD/covert religious narc/schizophrenic/HFA. Being the eldest, all responsibility for the family's emotional health was placed on me. My mother even told me I was the glue that held the family together. Just the tip of the iceberg, it took me decades to discover and learn the antidote to this abuse, recover, and finally live my own life. Ross's work is a main proponent of that healing journey ❤

[@ladybaabaa3294]

This is all very interesting to me. I have come to terms with the fact I'm an ACoA. My dad was an alcoholic from the time I was 4 until I was 14. I won't go into detail but I basically lived in fear every weekend (during the week he mostly didn't drink), stopped expressing any negative feelings around age 6-7, as it became embarrassing to tell your dad how much you hate it when he gets drunk, and have nothing change. A little kid can't grasp the complications of it all. My dad was great when he wasn't drinking. He himself had a very traumatic childhood. His mother was an alcoholic and one time at the age of 10, he woke up to her trying to smother him with a pillow. When she wasn't drinking, she was a wonderful mother. Sadly, she died when my dad was only 35 and I was 5, from alcoholism. My mum was (and is) phenomenal. It was so hard to know what to do. Leave or stay. She only wanted to do what was best for me. It's hard when your husband is great 5 days a week and bad / absent for 2. There was verbal abuse, never directed at me (only at my mum), though I wish it had been at me. I could take it. I was scared of my dad, even though I loved him so much. At a young age, I understood a lot. My mum and I were in it together and I was always in agreement with her whilst trying to still show "nothing was wrong" to my dad. I became the passive, peacemaker, funny clown. I had no negative emotions and showed only wisdom and strength. Just below the surface though, was enormous chronic anxiety, compulsive skin picking, OCD, speech issues (stuttering and speaking way too fast), debilitating self consciousness, maladaptive daydreaming, insomnia...and then much later, BPD, APD, tourettic OCD, self harm, depression, and of course, CPTSD. So my question now is...how do I feel better emotionally? I know all of this stuff. I know the what, the how and the why. I have no anger about it. I'm very proud of my dad for stopping drinking for good when I was 14. I'm 42 now. I understand it all on a deep level. I have good and healthy thought patterns, have been to psychologists on and off since I was 19, but talking doesn't help me. It doesn't change the feelings. What CAN change them?

[@merrym7174]

Writing can change them. Because they have discovered C-PTSD uses a different part of the brain to recover when writing/journaling. Why?? Because it's neurological, (not just psychological) The brain waves become dysregulated. Writing, helps greatly. If you want to know more, there's alot of stuff on you tube. One person's formula I use is from a lady called The Crappy Childhood Fairy.

[@ladybaabaa3294]

@@merrym7174 Thank you so much for this. I actually already subscribe to the Crappy Childhood Fairy and find her excellent!

[@skepticalmom2948]

This is so true. I grew up with a dad that was an alcoholic, my mom was codependent. My sister turned out to be a narcissist. Both of my brothers became alcoholics, I'm the only one that escaped.

[@jessicaa.6690]

Question for all: Is growing up naive or gullible an outcome from having a narcissistic parent??? Several people mentioned being naive. I am a bit better, but was super naive growing up and in my early adulthood. My SLD friend,, raised by a malignant narc Mom, is extremely naive to the extent of almost being child-like. I wonder if naivety/gullibility is extremely common amongst SLD children & adults who were raised by a narcissistic parent. I think it might be common because we were taught not to believe our own interpretations of what we experienced, felt, heard, thought or saw... So we were taught to believe the one who told us what to believe. We had to believe what we were told even if deep inside we knew it wasn't true. Thoughts? If anyone agrees or disagrees, I'd be interested in your expanding on the idea, or countering it with an explanation.

[@emmy_okaye9942]

"Taught not to believe our own interpretations..." what you said in the body of the paragraph is a spot on definition and well said.

[@WarriorConstance]

Yes I believe so 💯

[@hearme4581]

This is so my life , I was told I have borderline personality disorder from it. My mother is an alcoholic and I’m still till a few days ago trying to help her.

[@adrianacowart]

I am so glad I found you here. ACOA is so real. Had no idea that breaking bad from unsatisfying relationships is a codependence thing

[@pavanatanaya]

As an ACA, the thing I share with SLDD is the ability to read a room before I enter it. Overdeveloped empathy

[@andrewmass1414]

Excellent. So good. My father was an alcoholic and he was also a covert narccisst. Thanks for this information.

[@RossRosenberg]

You are so welcome Andrew.

[@holisticenergymedicineappr7898]

Dr. Rosenberg, excellent! My parents were workaholics, never there. And as much as people Don t consider it as bad, the symptoms are exactly as you mentioned. I would love to buy the book, however Amazon is not delivering to England and Scotland. After the Pandemie, I will buy all of them! God bless you! Bye, now!

[@RossRosenberg]

Thank you for the support! We are still delivering, although it can be some delays because of Covid. You can find the alternatives here: www.selfloverecovery.com/collections/human-magnet-syndrome-books

[@lesleygarvs4640]

I just bought it! Thanks! I buy some physical ones when they deliver to UK.

[@beverlyorlando8040]

I'm definitely an empath codependent, maybe SLD. It wasn't 100% fear of loneliness that kept me married to my covert narcissistic soon-to-be ex husband. It was my trying to reach the deep hurt I sensed from him, in hopes if "fixing" whatever was broken in him do we could have a happy, non toxic relationship. I finally woke up and realized that I was ill equipped to reach this person, who for years promised to change but never did. Then just recently, came the final straw that ended it for me. I've been out on my own for a couple of months. The first few weeks were awful! I'm doing a little better now dealing with a lot of different emotions and nightmares. But I'm finally free to heal and be myself again!

[@RossRosenberg]

Thanks so much for sharing Beverly.

[@perhagman6112]

ACA is also for people who grew up in a dysfunctional family with no substance abuse.

[@TheRugghead]

Just wanted to thank you for your work Ross. You saved me, saved my kids, and helped heal my relationship with my parents .

[@RossRosenberg]

Glad to hear that Aaron, and thank you for the support.

[@rubberbiscuit99]

I faced my SLDD and have been on my own for several years now, taking care of me, and doing trauma therapy. I can spot certain narcissists at 50 paces now. I used to be attracted to them, and now I chuckle to myself and think, "Now there's a Stop sign if I ever saw one!" I am learning to trust myself. It feels amazing.

[@Ce2009ce]

Thank u so much.. you’ve cleared up so much of what I suffer from after not really understanding why I am the way I am. A pple pleaser..caring way to much for pple in my life n so call friends that didn’t care abt me caring abt them so much..I was told, “u care too much” that was a shock to my system..caring too much was considered a bad feeling..But..those words made me think that..yes..she’s right..I do care too much for pple that didn’t want my care..So..I stopped caring..it’s not easy to turn off. Also..I’m a super empath ..I no what they feel n what they’re going thru so I try to help..but..no more I just listen n let go..No more over reaching,, over sharing, over caring..just want to hve balance. The loneness hurts but..I’m learn to embrace that..I’m ok being alone..I hve no choice ..

[@cathy_clarinet]

This is a fantastic insight and explanation! More like this! There could be more videos on ACAs. Thanks Dr Ross!!

[@RossRosenberg]

Glad you liked it Cathy!

[@k-lysbliss8875]

Thank you Ross!! I was wondering...can a recovering alcoholic (a few years alcohol 'free' with a few relapses) be a covert narcicissist too?

[@jeffdodson8532]

Yes .. My understanding is there can be clusters of personality disorders I.e. narcissistic personality disorder, BPD, ETC. behind alcoholism/addiction / compulsions

[@inkwell7835]

cant wait to listen!

[@Martty_4]

My mother was adopted and got stuck with my alcoholic dad because she had no place of hers to go back to. She wasn't an addict but she was a narcisstic person. My dad died when I was 23 and his addiction lasted for the last10yrs . But I really wish my mother atleast acknowledged what we as kids survived. She is always so defensive saying she took care of us and educated us. She doesnt realize we as kids r totally damaged within. We haven't married , we got trust issues and can't keep a job. This was so helpful and I feel so acknowledged .thank you so much ❤

[@eyesralwaysdeeperbrown1809]

Also being deemed an empath by oneself & others is now highly misunderstood. It’s even become trendy the last 2 decades. What being empathic actually means is having sloppy psychological, emotional & spiritual boundaries. Compassion & empathy are very different. Former leads to a lifeline being through from a secure platform. The 2nd has everybody in painful powerlessness together with no way out.

[@eyesralwaysdeeperbrown1809]

Sorry Ross. I tried to remove the dislike but ended up making more that one dislike hits I’m afraid. Wanted to punch dislike cause although you shared some good insights I thought, found it highly annoying how much you plugged your book - this detracted from the content of what you were saying to me. And I didn’t really come away clear as to how an SLD is created vs how a ACOA person. What I think I overstand from this vid is that can both be made in a childhood home where there is addiction type dysfunctional living going on whether those addictions by the adult caretakers are substance or process addictions.

[@Haha-hp6bo]

My Dad was an alcoholic and Mom was a Narcissist, diagnosed and with sadistic tendencies 😞

[@JamesTyreeII]

I think I am ACA and SLD

[@donnabradley765]

As an adult child of an alcoholic I mostly date narcs! Just as when I was a child, I hope to love them out of it. I decided about five years ago never to fall in love again and I haven't dated in years. I don't trust my own judgment. I feel like I don't have the ability to see toxic traits.

[@RossRosenberg]

Thanks for sharing Donna. In case you haven't watched it yet, this other video may be helpful: kzbin.info/www/bejne/equZhXWKq9t0rKc

[@christophersibley8354]

This isn't exactly correct, as ACA stands for Adult Children of Alcoholics AND Dysfunctional Families. It doesn't require alcoholism or addiction to create an adult child. Additionally, alcoholism and addiction are often throughout a family (inter-generational). So you can have a family with extended family members who were alcoholics and directly impacted members of that family, when the parents themselves may not have had any addiction issues at all. A family can function as 'para-alcoholics' when the alcoholism itself was in grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc.

[@VeganGoddess79]

My mom's dad was an alcoholic. Her sister (my aunt) died of drug misuse (heroin) and my uncle is a food addict (morbidly overweight). My grandma was a nurse (codepedent stayed married to terrible alcoholic husband). My mom was a chain cigarette smoker who died of lung cancer at age 69. She was also a narcissist. She did not drink alcohol much, she never gained weight, her addiction was nicotine and being 110% in control (narc) of everyone and everything. My childhood was very dysfunctional. I have one sister, she had four kids with an alcoholic (narc) and stayed with him by choice even though he treated her like the DIRT UNDER the door mat. MY #1 love has always been sugar.....and food. That is my addiction. Not men, not sex, not porn, not gambling, not alcohol, ect ect. People can be ADDICTED to MUCH MORE than just substances nowadays! My sister is now married to a guy in ghana she NEVER sees or communicates with!! She works endless hours to SEND him HER money! HE is HER ADDICTION. Just like the alcoholic male partners are the CODEPENDENTS' ADDICTION. It is truly that simple. You just have to admit it that the CODEPENDENTS ARE ALSO ADDICTS. EVERY HUMAN BEING ON THIS EARTH IS ADDICTED TO SOMETHING/SOMEONE. My family examples is same for ALL families, it just becomes a matter of different levels of severity. No one ever truly overcomes this either, not even Mr. Ross Rosenberg. He spreads hope just like the entire self-help industry but I believe 100% in ADDICTION TRANSFERENCE, not 100% TRUE SELF LOVE by any human being.

[@ginarossi1541]

Thank you Dr. Ross. It feels so good to be validated. 🙏🏼

[@RossRosenberg]

You are so welcome Gina

[@r.bishop1127]

I'm 44 years old. Both of my parents were alcoholics. My father passed 4 years ago. I am the youngest of 4. 2/4 now have alcoholic cirrhosis. For some reason alcohol was never my thing, which I am grateful for. I've literally dated my father in different bodies. Recently divorced from an alcoholic, he is sober now. I'm grateful for that too, but lost my marriage. Alcohol has destroyed my relationships throughout my entire life. I'm trying to heal but it hasn't gotten easier.

[@allisontaylor1818]

Doing intense therapy after years of terrible dysfunctional relationships and alcohol abuse myself....I did live with chaos and many of the things you have said, and my mother gave me a job as a little girl to watch my dad to make sure he wouldn't drink when we were out....definitely self love deficit.

[@susanw9475]

I've listened to Ross's content a lot, over time. Somehow, I don't feel that he answered the question he brought up - what's the difference between ACA and codependent? As I look it up elsewhere, I see it put that codependent is a more specific category than ACA. And I know in ACA literature there's a lot about codependence. I just tire of KZbin titles that don't get delivered on.

[@user-cl6uj5bn2f]

Thank you for validating me through this video Dr Rosenberg. As an ACOA, and survivor of lifelong neglect, this resonates beyond belief🙏

[@AaronNellessen]

What about those of us who learned to be independent instead of codependent? I have an avoidant attachment style. Everywhere I look I learn about what an awful boyfriend that makes or how to avoid people with avoidant attachment styles. Where do I go to learn how to do better so that I can live a happy life And not hurt people?

[@matilda4406]

That makes full sense, they are all independent, I must read your book/s..

[@RossRosenberg]

Thanks for the support Matilda... the book is available in many formats, paperback, audio, digital and kindle: www.selfloverecovery.com/collections/human-magnet-syndrome-books

[@lindseyluna13]

I have overcome so much. I wish I wasn't still healing from their abuse and trauma but I am so grateful to break these awful cycles. Recovery is lifelong and I never want to put my kids through what they put me through.

[@Grungefan2018]

Being told hundreds of times “you are nothing “. “You are worthless” “Kids are sh!t”. “You are nobody “. Smacking me in the face /nose and then yelling at me for sneezing . All this goes back before I can remember . Now at 60 years old after decades of trying to get rid of this black hole and waiting for my life to start while being completely isolated .. Thanks mom

[@GullerudGallery]

This is spot on.

[@minnesotajude8447]

Can you be both on SLDD and a Codependent? My dad was very Narcisissitic, but only drank sometimes. When he did drink, he was either super happy, angry, or wanted pity. When he didn't drink, he was more neglectful, passive aggressive, silent treatment, condenscending, physically violent. Statistically, he was easier to deal with when he did drink. Oh, and we had to go to church every Sunday, which caused even more confusion.

[@RossRosenberg]

Thanks for sharing Mike. This short video explains Ross's definition of SLDD and codependency: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIfTk6aQlsqZbrs. I hope it helps.

[@minnesotajude8447]

@@RossRosenberg Thank you Ross. I wrote the question wrong, my fault. Can someone be an SLDD and an ACOA?

[@yvettekastur4795]

Thank you for this. This helps me, additionally, to break out of the denial of my childhood experience and its affect on me. You, really, clarify my experiences!

[@RossRosenberg]

Glad it was helpful!

[@krisscanlon4051]

Like the video and read and own your work. I don't completely agree with assessment of codependency and ACA...ACAs are also from otherwise dysfunctional families... its in the name of the group so this too includes narcissist type families etc...I urge anyone to read the ACA big red book and more will be revealed also I enjoy Ross' work...its vital when on the healing path.

[@RossRosenberg]

Thanks for the comment Kris.

[@krisscanlon4051]

@@RossRosenberg You are welcome Ross...2 years 9 months ago I started on this path and your book was the first I read...I am VERY pleased you mention ACA because this was my next stop after your frontline help. I went down a path of healing that had me look at myself honestly. I am a recoverying alcoholic and codependent ACA as well. I now have the tools to help others...your Anais Nin quote was an early touchstone for me...so thank you I am no longer being used by people,I have worth.

[@MsVideoBot]

Ross, this is so helpful! I am an ACA who was "overly sensitive " as a child. I learned to avoid difficult feelings, like you'd suggested, by disassociating from them, sometimes cutting them off and often times escaping into my imagination playing out scenarios where I was the hero instead of being helpless to the situation. I've often thought this was how I trained myself to be codependent, always preferring to be the hero rather than feel helplessness in the presence of suffering. Might this be true? Or do you see it differently?

[@MsVideoBot]

I have a thousand more questions! I'm with everyone else who'd love to see an additional segment on this topic. Some of these questions I've already sent to your website portal : ]

[@Mrstiaforeva]

Some recent interactions with an addict and their partner led me to this video. I have a huge interest in Psychology and just wanted to say you did an AMAZING job With this discussion and I look forward to reading your book someday. Thx!,

[@RossRosenberg]

Thanks for listening! 🙏

[@odette8905]

Great work Ross. Love your distinctions and explanations. You have a terrific way of explaining these ideas. Do you have a book on your Hitch method btw? Much love. 🧡

[@RossRosenberg]

Not yet the book, and the best alternatives are my video seminars for HITCH and the Codependency Cure here: www.selfloverecovery.com/ Thank you for your support Odette!

[@SteeleMagnolia]

Our alcoholic father had to self medicate, to numb his pain from constant rampages of our mother, who would definitely be diagnosed with NPD. Unfortunately, as children, we didn't get the luxury of numbing. Damage control was my role.

[@nickdelia9122]

Don't know how I stumbled on your videos but grateful I did. 42 yo male, mother is, has always been, an alcoholic. My sister got the worse of it, but hearing what you have to say is giving small doses of clarity. Pretty sure I'm married to a covert narcissist as well, wanting out but worry about my kids... I'm going to keep digging through your info... Thank you.

[@RossRosenberg]

Thanks so much for sharing Nick. You may be interested in exploring Ross's resources at www.selfloverecovery.com/ and humanmagnetsyndrome.com/hmsblog/

[@hearme4581]

I thought if you have abandonment issues you have borderline personality disorder. Can you explain the difference between a codependent fear of abandonment vs borderline personality disorder fear of abandonment.

[@robertaf2333]

Great talk! A bit scientific and less simple than most program discussion, but I really liked the thorough comparison of different terms.

[@RossRosenberg]

Thanks for the feedback Roberta!

[@volkischfrau2957]

Both my parents were, and still are alcoholics😔. Currently struggling to gain my autonomy and break away from my toxic family.

[@doreendawson8978]

I don't think there is any difference between the damage of abuse and neglect to an acoa. Both are incredibly damaging and traumatizing you can't compare.

[@Somun-a]

Well, think about it this way. It may be possible to remember and work on traumatic events to at least process it and get some healing. Can you do that for neglect? It becomes your part of your identity.

[@loveleelibra5599]

Unreal never knew all this, growing up in a toxic family😯🙏🙏

[@RossRosenberg]

Thanks for listening.

[@momackin1]

This is so helpful! My husband is an ACA, and I'm definitely a SLD/Empath. He has narcissistic traits, but this video fills in the gaps and answers a lot of my questions. Thank you!

[@RossRosenberg]

So glad it was helpful. Thanks for sharing Marisa!

[@teetrav]

I am so serious about making sure we all understand what this really is and why we all are suffering

[@blissfulbaboon]

Aren't all ACA's SLD's too?.I would think all of these conditions involve self love deficit ,including narcissism, because at its core,it too is a shame based disorder.The alcoholic parents suffered from self love deficit producing self love deficit disordered children.Isn't self-love deficit the common denominator of all mental illness?

[@Sylvieanjouben]

So what am I if my mother is an alcoholic and my father is a narcissist ?

[@marissapowser1755]

Is it possible to go from being a fawning codependent to self neglecting and controlling of others? I am struggling with this.

[@michaelmartinx714]

Excellent

[@marycoan976]

my ex was a aca it was so difficult. he had both adhd and aca. I tried to make it work but his outburst killed the relationship. too much pressure on me to play the role of his mother to make everything in life okay and smooth. he just didn't get role relationships and how they play out.. his dad left them at age five. I made the mistake of therapy to him.. he went busted into my apartment held me in a hair yelled in my face blamed everything that ever happened terrible to him after his stepdad died on me.. im not going through his trauma again.....id love to know ran his circle.. dangerous. he almost punched me out. I had to ask him to leave then call the police. I loved him but its well over. I still worry for him. he's fragile. im not even angry its just life is difficult.

[@ebenham1713]

This why I think that mental health disorders such as personality disorders should be linked to ACOA , If there was this link the mental health teams I think my mental health recovery would have been so much better. Dont label me as boderline, label me as an adult child of an alcoholic, I am developmentally arrested.

[@sumina8653]

Clarity needed. Thank you. After years of counselling, still unsure where to begin on road to recovery. Read much about Narcissism as involved with a neighbour who has bought up old trauma wounds to examine this. She is dangerous, controlling, violent, manipulative as was my alcoholic Father, though he functioned and always worked very hard and oddly had a kind sensitive side too, sometimes when sober, so a Jekyll & Hyde character. I always feared him as i fear her. I think my Mother was co-dependent as my Brother also became an alcoholic and carbon copy of my Father. My Grandfather ie her Father who we lived with likewise an alcoholic, so that's 3 generations in the same household I grew up with. I recall the house set on fire once by my grandfather. A miracle everyone survived. I have remained single and childless so thankful this inter generational torment and trauma will not be passed on by and so ends with me. My father used to take me skating and leave me alone in the car whilst he drank.I suppose that means i am likely to have abandonment issues. I dreaded this and his return. I always used to look at how bloodshot his huge eyes were as an indication of how safe he was to drive and or not loose his temper. In those days no breath tests. Until present painful relationship with Narcissist neighbour I always thought I had escaped all this and facing the pain. Denial was easier and I was happier then. Now I do not know who I am, have no interest in life, depressed, exhausted, lost, no flock or purpose. I am retired and provide intensive care for my sick and elderly cat. I dread his loss as he is the love of my life. I have had lots of interests, all fallen by the wayside. Where to begin. Just watching video on roles of ACA'S. See myself as both hero and lost child. Self care, parenting needs attention. 12 step program, joining a group doesn't appeal. I do not know anything for sure but would think I have SLDD, but only as far as my cat is concerned. I have stopped partaking others and loathe the Narcissicict next-door. I also think I am beginning to set boundaries but still have to deal with fall out of not people pleasing. This includes false accusations, smear campaigns, outcast, labelled as crazy. You name it. I do not feel presently capable of forming healthy relationships as those i attract tend to have power and control dynamics. I have decided I feel more safe and better to be alone than among toxic vampires. Any thoughts on where to begin to find a way out of this maze most appreciated. It is important for those who already feel lost not be misguided or become even more confused and decide what is appropraite for them as there are so many theories and resources out there. Thus videos like this are so important. Thank you so much again.

[@cindihunter9119]

Interesting... I can from an alcoholic mom, and have the tendency to take care of my mother, and my brothers, and sisters. I always tend to help others before myself. I'm confused...?

[@theempresss]

My mom is narcissist who forced us to suffer with her marriage to my alcoholic stepdad . Found out she would purposely trigger my PTSD ex marine stepdad and laugh at him when he would try to tell people. Funny though he never went to jail for alllll the times she forced my sister to call the cops. It is like she simply wanted to humiliate him..she was never in danger because after he begs her to not leave him we would appear as his savior. The family he never had . She was ruining him. Torturing him

[@laurenesmith1554]

My mom did that to my dad with his shellshock from the war..but he beat her and strangled her so she pushed him and he got violent. That was my first memories

[@sandicadumitru7735]

Thank you for this video! Hello from Romania!

[@RossRosenberg]

Hello there Sandica! Thanks for watching.

[@deborahyarborough1348]

I know two different narcissist, that blame their dad’s drinking for childhood abuse. I feel bad for them having to go through the abuse. But why take it out on every person in a relationship with them?

[@jayashiaco9476]

Yes. They are 2 different things. …and many, like myself, are both.

[@ryanledford8682]

My fathers drinking during my young years (4-15) was just awful. He wasn’t, like, in and out of the house. Took us to baseball games, signed us up for sports, put food on the table. But looking back, it’s all he did. Alcohol always crept into the equation.He held a job as an underground lineman for an electric company where he made over 100k/year. From afar my life seemed pretty sweet. But he was and still is suuuuuch a beerbrained habitual drinker. Drinks these strong tallboy IPAs and it’s just a reeking habit of his. Has feng shui’d his personality to that of a peruser of local craft beer. Him, my mom, AND my bro. This ‘hobby’ (physical addiction) he is convinced is built on good natured fun will kill him sooner or later. Gets fuuuming mad when you try to talk to him about it, too. ESPECIALLY when he is drunk, naturally right? Hes 58 and is one of those fat dudes with extremely red skin and an excessive sweater. To the point where he wears a fan around his neck around the house lmao. It’s a ‘medical condition’ from ‘working outside’. Used to get in these alcohol fueled arguments with my mom and threaten to kill himself in front of me and my brother, we were like 10. Went on a killer vacations to tropical islands - he’d get drunk (like the selfish prick he is) and make the vacations all about him. We had to dodge the wrath of a drunk fuck thousands of miles from home when these vacations should have been about us. Is this evil, or am I being dramatic? See, I was never given a shot in fucking hell at this life. Just forever stunted. It’s weird because when he’s not drinking, he’s palatable. And I try to be chummy with him, why, again, idk, but I secretly revile the fucker. Ultimately, I give him 5 years at best. I know the drinking will never gradually taper off, save I guess for some mind altering stroke.. which is on the table. I know and relinquish to the fact that it only gets worse from here. Here’s the kicker, my mom was gonna divorce him in ‘06 but I begged her to stay with him. I didn’t wanna have divorced parents, the thought scared the shit out of me. Well, they stayed together. And now she’s an alcoholic too! Just as bad! She doesn’t seem to get it either, shes 54 and it’ll probably claim her life too.. maybe not as quick as it will my dad.. but perhaps eventually. Part of me is entertained by the thought of this, which is scary. Oh and my big bro also became an alcoholic. The irony of life, man. I just about hate my life, I carry a lingering bitterness and shame about my situation and rue my misfortune that these people raised me. I’m a 25 year old male and and very lost, just a general inability at everything, it seems . God help me

[@laurenesmith1554]

Get help anyway u can Trauma therapy and get out

[@tld-q9n]

i was powerless over a power greater than myself which was my alcoholic mother ,and the people she brought into my life, who also wer alcoholis, perverts, dysfuctional, toxic personalities, who firced me t develope behaviors that were self destructive,sabataging, dysfunctional like hateing myself loathig myself feelin unworthy of lovebor goodness in my life,developing peraonality traits of people pleaesing, looking to others for my value.. i was forced to surrender my gid give rights to an all powerful soverigne,,, my alcoholic mother.. the list of damage is ver long.. iv soent most of my life trying to recover from the danage done by these "SOVEREIGN RULERS OF MY DEVELOPMENTAL STAGE "

[@Karina_Engr]

Can you talk about any of these types of people and the pros and cons of them taking SSRI/SNRI for the short term and long term on their healing journey. Assume general mental health with exception of depression and anxiety and any other typical MH associated with SLD, ACOA. Thanks!

[@Wishyouwereabeer321]

No one ever covers the whole abuse just tid bits They become your lifetime stalkers as well.. Try to have you killed Disabled from the lifetime of it. Always get away with everything!! It's even in my doctor records from birth the abuse and neglect.. school, family, friends, cop's/ cop's were scared of them!!?? SO much more to it... I'm so tired

[@Creashone]

By this definition, if someone is neither an SLDD or a narcissist, they will not feel a great romantic attraction towards anyone? It's only possible to be very passionate or very attracted if you are at the extreme end of the scale as a codependent or a narcissist? It would be interesting to research couples where they are not SLDD or narcissists and see if they are all without romantic spark? I feel like there is a door number 3... just not sure what it is.

[@ebenham1713]

This was also so hard to listen to I disociated twice throughout this.

[@r1leyb0y1]

I am very interested in this topic and found the content to be spot on for me, however the soundtrack is not synced with the video. It made it very difficult to watch.

[@RossRosenberg]

Sorry about that Jennifer! We will review it.

[@_c0rnholio_]

It’s crazy for me I’m 26 and my mum 52. Was a super high functioning alcoholic and She’s only really came to terms with a lot of her trauma in the last 3 years and is bordering 2 years sober. At this age it feels like a rollercoaster coming to terms with a lot and adapting to such a change with her sobriety but I can’t even begin to imagine how it feels for her too. She struggles a lot with sobriety and letting go of resentment My early childhood was always good from my memory n all, but from the 2010’s onward it went majorly downhill for what felt like so so long for us all

[@StarseedAgenda]

Do you do private counseling I've been healing from this for a long time and still have struggles

[@lyndabuswell139]

Thx.so much for sharing your comassions and your wisdoms with us.blessings

[@thatlittlehomestead]

ACOA/Dysfunctional Families it’s all the same symptoms. Listen to Tony A’s video on KZbin. Very helpful in understanding.

[@Somun-a]

Came to say this. It is not right to separate out alcoholism or other drug abuse. Those are also a product of the dysfunctional families.

[@fightswithspirits915]

Alcoholic father + Covert mother = double whammy. NB: Spot on again, RR. I didn't exist. Still don't 59 years later.

[@0neven439]

thk you so much

[@RossRosenberg]

You're welcome!

[@ZFern9390]

Ross my mother is a daughter of alcoholics. She has never drank or done chemical dtugs but is a self proclaimed christian since i was about 5. Every subject for her leads back to religious talk or redheric because of that she can't have sensible or mutual conversations, it dictates everything she does. She is never or has been emotionally available and physically violent in the name of god.spare the rod sort of crap. She is a nightmare. I consider her an addict. Would you agree on some leve? What is your input about this particular subject. I never read anything available about this issue. She is a nightmare 😢