Advanced Engine Concepts Made Simple - The Carmudgeon Show Jason Cammisa & ISSIMI's Derek - Ep 91

[@shravanav993]

Do the Piechisode next please......

[@JasonCammisa]

We know, we know.... :)

[@somerandoonline5852]

​@@JasonCammisa expect this comment like 50,000 times. I have patience others do not. I think one of your mistakes was mentioning that u were in the middle of his book a few episodes ago. Love the content keep doing what u and derek are doing

[@triaxe-mmb]

​@@JasonCammisa you both should take your time - like Piech, we demand perfection on this topic and nothing else will do, so money (yours) and time (ours and yours) are no object, 😆

[@johnmac609]

Yaaaaasssssss

[@dougrobinson8602]

@@triaxe-mmb Yes. Besides, one hour isn't enough time to do him justice.

[@JCDenton95]

Piechisode for episode #100 would be a good milestone and mile marker

[@energymc22]

No. Should be episode 408. Or 1001

[@dougrobinson8602]

@@energymc22 No. We can't wait that long!

[@carsaregood911]

I think it will be, Jason's face when DTS mentioned Piech suggests he's hiding something I feel

[@karolisstaknys5841]

Hey guys, Inserts do really help. As Jason said - I usually play Gran turismo and play this as a background, but when I hear something I don’t recognise I instantly turn my head to the laptop to look for the insert! Keep on doing the good job guys!

[@spongeborgtheford4971]

Yup if I happen to be doing something I always turn my head when I hear them say "insert"

[@babyfknblu]

same, its on in the background at work but ill pull up the tab if i know a clip is coming up!

[@nomenicuss2091]

yes, inserts are useful, I often watch directly, not in background.

[@JK061996]

I usually play Euro Truck Simulator 2 with the podcast in a picture-in-picture window

[@ziyadouais]

3:21 I agree, inserts are REALLY helpful particularly when you are talking about the most random anecdotes of the cylinder design of a saab or a headlight design change of a r129

[@benzina5917]

A little background info on the Dino motor on the Lancia. The engines are the same between the 246 and the Stratos with the difference of the carbs which make for a bit of a power difference. Interestingly the engine on the 246 was developed entirely by FIAT and tested in longitudinal configuration as used on the coupe and spider. When placed in the Dino 246 the engine was transverse which put the carb float bowls in an orientation that starved the carbs in sweeping left hand curves. For this reason Dino 246's have an un-curable stumble on sweeping lefts. This was all corrected on the Stratos with different carbs which eliminated the flat spots. Stratos carbs can be fitted to a 246 but it requires a custom airbox or a raising of the engine cover to clear. Just a little geeky info from a fellow Carmudgeon Dino owner.

[@mistreku]

You may be underestimating the viewers. IMO this is the best format and I was really bummed during the pandemic when you couldn't get together and only made episodes over zoom or whatever. I love watching you both since the early days at Issimi.

[@johnsandow2751]

I think the inserts really do help add detail to the show. I really hope y’all continue this as it is because it really is a highlight of my day seeing the new episodes pop up on my feed.

[@qx4n9e1xp]

INSERTS HELP!! Don't get rid of them, fam!

[@fastcargtv6]

The very first engine with "all" the dudads was the 1914 Alfa Grand Prix car. It has everything in one package: 4-valves per cylinder, twin-cam overhead, hemi-spherical combustion chamber, and dual sparks for each cylinder. That was the second engine after Peugeot's 1912's attempt for a multi-valve cylinder-head design.

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

I continue to listen on YT so I can rewind to the inserts when y'all talk about some obscure Alfa from the 60s.

[@ThatSteez]

I listen to 20 podcasts a week but I exclusively watch this one for the inserts

[@ceooflovingthehomies9294]

I will say the inserts are nice for stories. It’s also helpful because one reason I listen to this show is to learn about the weird cars that aren’t as pedestrian. So I like to see what I am learning about 😉

[@dougrobinson8602]

When DT-S goes off on a tangent about some little known car, most of us have no visual reference stored in our comparatively puny craniums. We most definitely need the inserts.

[@Cameron_Baillie]

For what its worth, I watch on KZbin when I can because I appreciate the inserts (and the rare opportunity to watch Hyphen choke on water!) But I listen on Spotify because I can do so in my car or when out for a walk-keep it up guys! :)

[@soulside]

I watch/listen to these exclusively on KZbin so please keep doing the inserts. Thanks guys for the great content

[@JanHejn]

Inserts are crucial and very nice. I sometimes check the video if I need context from the insert even if I started the audio podcast.

[@foxxlohf8953]

the c series, a 90 degree double cam, v6 was used in the first gen nsx and they used it in the legends and until the 3.5 RL. the 6th gen accord v6 was the first j series, before that they had the c series

[@joshamann5921]

The Legend was the C series V6. J series was 90s in Acura CL I believe. C series is 90 and J is 60

[@mchristr]

As a certified engine geek I'm currently enamored with the Lampredi Twin. I love that it has 2 valves, perpendicular to the crank center-line . The cam boxes are pure art.

[@ericokompatzki7110]

Inserts do help. It's the main reason I keep listening on KZbin

[@Landau93Droid]

I listen to every podcast with the exception to this one; I watch this one. Y’all reference so many cars, and special taillights, etc that it would be a lot less valuable to me if you don’t show a picture of the quirky thing you’re referring to. I greatly appreciate the inserts because without them I think I’d be lost when you guys discuss cars that were manufactured years before I was born. I’m sure they’re a lot of work to gather but I am grateful!!

[@karljamieson8573]

The inserts are great, keep them! Also an episode on very long lived (production run) engines would be interesting. From the GM and Ford small blocks to the Jag XK engine to the Colombo V12, to the VW Beetle engine. It's all fascinating why they lived so long.

[@Lelumi3s]

I've been always interested in aircraft and I like how much they advanced internal combustion engines in the few decades before transfering to jet engines. Just few things they had decades before they became commonplace in automotive engines: 4 valves per cylinder, forced induction (turbo and supercharging) , intercooling, Water-Methanol injection and direct fuel injection to name a few. Also good reading for anyone interested in the subject is from Harry Ricardo "The high speed internal combustion engine". It's an old book but still has very good information regarding engine design and basic principles.

[@chetanrajanwal]

Omg, I just found this channel and am so relieved after thinking the show ended while the Hagerty job was on the cards.😮 (Yes, I'm working my way through the old episodes after just discovering this show) absolute gem of a slow.🎉

[@josephgolio36]

100th episode should either be the Piechisode or be broadcast from inside a Pontiac Sunfire while doing the PET

[@kevinlloyd1088]

Thanks for the John Davis quote. Here's one more, "Motorweek Owings Mills Maryland 21117".

[@thatsleepyguy136]

well done and congrats on getting that stratos vid out! I know it was important to you.

[@dr_tate]

My favorite late 90s 16valve 4 cylinder engine is the Toyota Tacoma. It's basically the 2JZ engine with 2 cylinders cut off. Very easy to work on and it makes great power with a turbo. Iron Block, steel crankshaft, steel rods, aluminum head with twin cams. Great engine

[@jimiverson3085]

Not only was that old Buick V8 the base of the Rover V8, it was also the base for the Repco V8 in the 1966 and 1967 Brabham Grand Prix cars - which were SOHC!

[@Amy-dq2lg]

and in 1968 they made a DOHC motor, it was too unreliable to succeed

[@davidparnell6272]

The inserts are amazing I still can’t believe how small this channel is I’ve been watching since you went with Hagerty yet

[@mcspikesky]

Inserts are the gold sprinkling on top. Very thankful for them!

[@tonyflorio3269]

What I don't think you did mention was that higher revs also increased internal friction. So, the GM V8 approach: using displacement and gearing to keep revs low and a simple, bigger bore pushrod design to keep the unit compact, is actually a viable approach. High torque, low revs, lower NVH and competitive efficiency in the best of them (LS/LT and GM3800)

[@ewgeldfocker]

Inserts help me a lot. Love looking up and seeing a still frame of a car when you guys mention it.

[@aydotbee]

Please never stop doing the inserts, thanks! They're incredibly helpful.

[@clintoncampbell3076]

Excellent episode. This is precisely your sweet spot. Rifting off of each other, deep diving into technical subject matter. Well done guys.

[@racerx509]

Turbos were introduced on aircraft during World War 2 as a way to allow the engines to retain power at high altitude. The p40 warhawk had a massive rear mounted turbocharger fed by a 2 speed supercharger. The P38 and B17 bombers were turbocharged as well. The pilots manually controlled the wastegates because boost controllers hadnt been invented yet.

[@diazfernandezantonio]

I watch KZbin for the inserts… Then I listen you on Spotify the rest of the week 🤓

[@cameron1776]

Knowing that math about efficiency is so cool! The H22A makes about 153lbft at 5252, and spun to usdm 6800 it makes 197hp, spun to jdm 7300 it makes (varies) 205hp. on a chip spinning to 8k, it (supposedly) making 220 HP. Knowing why the gains get so much smaller per rpm now is so cool!

[@mndlessdrwer]

The Lancia Stratos is still one of the most stunningly beautiful and insane cars ever made.

[@tarynwebster2883]

I only listen because I’m “technically” at work right now. I love you guys, you make minimum wage bearable

[@Epacheco]

I listen to all my podcasts in audio form with the exception of this one, which I'd never understand without the visual aids

[@pereldh5741]

The twinspark tech is interesting too, worth discussing. Both Porsche & Alfa Romeo have successful recent engines there with both 2valve & 4valve heads. First twincam with cambelt; Fiat 124 1966, also pretty early with 4cyl 16v in the 124 Abarth Rally in 1974. Altho that sold in even smaller numbers than the next 16v, 131 Abarth. Injection tech: you don’t HAVE to use direct injection to shut cylinders off, usual electronic port injection works as well, the fuel residue goes away the first cycle (1micro sec). Direct injection is A LITTLE more accurate and A LITTLE more frugal, but creates bad particles due to the high compression ratio. Also all sorts of soot issues inside the engine…

[@zaktoob]

The Revuelto has the same bore & stroke as the Aventador. 95.0mm x 76.4mm.

[@greylonbrady]

I like this level of technicality in a subject that also shows what different concepts mean to the driving experience. The inserts are very nice.

[@hardcoreep]

Always appreciate the quality audio.

[@otavionovaes5865]

You were talking about the Rover V8. Those were also used in the TVR models. S series (my car), Wedges, Griffith and Chimaera. I hear great things about them.

[@matts5430]

The amount of information Jason and Derek don't know about Honda V6es is staggering.

[@e46m54nissansr20937]

Yes!! Love you guys

[@timwang2006]

4 or even 5 valves aren't technically the best use of the bore ceiling area, non-circular valves are. Yes, Honda did lag behind Toyota and Nissan when it came to adopting 4 valves. They were also doing their own weird side thing in motorcycle racing of using oval valves to get a huge advantage where regulations specified 2 valves only. It actually wasn't a complete reliability disaster either somehow, they made it work and maybe in an alternate timeline, it might be mainstream tech.

[@babyblubrzbestrotaryzleepe2634]

The 4cyl dual over head cam 20 valve engine that Toyota had was a awesome engine specially with the itb 🏎️🚀

[@tiredoworking9350]

Great episode. (Look at me. I'm learning! LOL) I already saw the DTS Stratos video. Excellent, by the way! Highly recommend it. 👍

[@mikesharpe9141]

13:50 - Honda mid-60's DOHC (albeit 2 valve) in S600/800 and early/mid-80s with ZC 16 valve DOHC in Civic/CRX/Integra.

[@BennyB2k4]

Pulling out your phone to google something is just an insert for real life

[@evalonious]

2:58 Sometimes I watch but don't listen, other times I listen but don't watch. Either way more inserts please. (And on the flat screen behind you) ❤

[@_que]

Yes to inserts, and more of them. Yes to longest running engine chat, don't change, save the manuals and NA high rpm engines. Mazda also made a new inline 6 finally... Porsche trying multi chamber combustion, all topics hope u brush on. Wished GMA made affordable cars for the rest of humankind. GMA/Cosworth V12 downsized to Gordon's favorite displacement of 3.3L displacement in V10 configuration would be epic... enjoy you show, will be tuning in

[@braapforce]

I am simple man. I see carmudgeon and I click like. 🤙

[@larry9580]

Ford UK and Germany released the RS1600 Escort in 1969. Volumes were small as it was a homologation special and built as road registerable. The engines' ancestors dated back to 1964. 1600 cc belt driven twin cam 4 valve.

[@ShahSelbe]

The Lotus-Ford Twin Cam in the Elan was DOHC in 1962. I guess that (and the Lotus 900-series engines) could fall into the “race derived engines” category but the 907 made it into the 78 Esprit S1 and earlier 70 Jensen-Healeys.

[@HandsomeAlex25]

I'm sure you guys know this, but you can also get more than atmospheric pressure on the intake stroke through tuning the intake runner length and manifold shape and size, as well as through exhaust scavenging effect.

[@BrycenKauai]

Side Note: Honda entered the twin cam 16v car engine market in 1986 but there was some cb750 iteration with the layout in 1979 iirc. Great episode!

[@kenm724]

The 750 was, in fact, a twin cam 4V. Made 77hp @ 9k RPM. That same time period, the 650 made 63hp @ 9k RPM with a single cam 2V! Both were fantastic engines and had an even higher power potential.

[@ps1hagrid823]

One manufacturer that went all out on 5 valve per cylinder engines was Yamaha. They designed the 5 valve head for the toyota 4A-GE, their motogp bike and flagship superbike used a 20 valve 4 cylinder up until the early 2000s, and their competition motocross bikes used a 5 valve single until 2009.

[@mdkaramazov]

I love these videos that are more technical and both of you have awe inspiring knowledge and experience . However you could definitely do more research on Japanese car history - as indicated by your statements on Honda V6 history, or differences between variable timing vs variable valve lift. Speaking Honda, it would have been interesting to mention the oval piston bike engines, which had up to 8 valves per cylinder and we're developed for race applications from the late 1970s. Honda eventually released this to the public in 1992 - the NR750. And while the focus here is on piston head design, it would have been fascinating to explore the Wankel rotary, which provide their own interesting design questions around how to maximise air and fuel intake, and of course don't use actuated valves...

[@ThmsPtrsn]

The C-Series V6 introduced in 1986 with the Acura or Honda Legend or Rover 800 series depending on where you're from, was 4v per cylinder and a had a direct competition with infiniti m30 when that was released soon after. The first generation NSX also used the C-Series engine but the only thing that shared with the legend was the 90 degree part of the engine. The J-Series went to a 60 degree upon the release of the 1996 Acura CL (J30A1). Funnily enough, the C-Series was still used until 2004 In the Acura 3.5 RL. So about a 20 year stint.

[@pflmikko]

I think in around 1911-12 Fiat S76 was OHC with three valves and mayyybe an extra cam lobe that could be engaged to reduce compression to help starting effort or something. Also I think Delage had DOHC engines with astronomical 8k redline in the 20s

[@MTBkid42]

Re:100 HP per liter, there's an exception. One of the Porsche GT cars found a way to use harmonic frequencies in the intake manifold to force more than atmospheric pressure into an NA engine. Jason at Engineering Explained did a video, I can't think of the specific gt car though

[@fabssgarage]

Neons were all 16valve... The 1.8, 2.0, and bmw 1.6. The Dohc was only offered only with the 2.0 and later on with the 2nd gen 2.4L.

[@andrewyeahknow]

Loved the last few minutes/tangents

[@tferrer6096]

Great episode BUT (there's always a but) would have loved to hear more about the designers/people involved in the early, groundbreaking engine designs and racing tech...like the super charged 8C Monza motors as a single example. Just a thought!

[@6rimR3ap3r]

About the Buick V8 to Rover V8 I once read it ended up being completely overhauled until only the valve lifters were original Buick parts.

[@ducbox572]

Thank you for your opinion on the Gordon Murray T cars. I thought the same. Listen to a Zonda R and the T50 and the ZR has a much more layered exhaust note.

[@ericmichael7732]

honda had 2 series of V-6 engines. the C-series which was 90 degrees found in original NSX and Legend. The recent engine is the J series which is 60 degrees

[@gearhead2319]

The original Honda V6 was a C series a 90degree V6 that lasted until 05 and was replaced by the 60 degree j series in 1998. Both were sohc except for the nsx which got dohc

[@racerx509]

Volvo had a dohc variant of its 2.3 engine in the late 80s/early 90s. It is loved by the Ford 2.3 guys because it can be bolted up to the Ford 2.3 with a little modification.

[@christopherlopez9458]

Honda c series was in the 1st and 2nd gen legend 1st gen tl and rl and 5th gen accord with sohc, nsx had dohc vtec version. Every v6 after was the j series from 1997 and up

[@JETZcorp]

Jason and DT-S need to look at Honda's 32-valve V4 from the late 1970s. It was their outrageous hail-mary attempt to make a 4-stroke competitive with 2-strokes on an equal displacement basis. They targeted, and achieved, 120hp from 500cc naturally-aspirated. 8 valves per cylinder, oval pistons, 2 rods per piston, crazy exotic stuff. However, they still got absolutely steam-rolled by the 2-strokes, which were making even more power by that time, and were lighter, and were more reliable. Soichiro Honda (who personally hated 2-strokes) eventually swallowed his pride, and the 2-stroke 500 Hondas went on to make like 220hp. I believe that's the highest specific output of any naturally aspirated gasoline engine ever - more than any F1 engine and more than the 787b rotary.

[@2of2DCH]

Test drove a new Passport a few months back just because I was interested in the sounds of the V6. If it was a tad smalker it'd be in a my garage right now, with an intake and exhaust. lol

[@Mcandmar]

Fun fact: VW/Audi did make an inline six cylinder, a Turbo Diesel unit found in the Volvo 740/760 series.

[@DustinDriver]

Yeah my second car, a 1993 Mazda Protege, came in two specs: DX with a SOHC 100-ish hp engine and the LX with the DOHC 125hp engine. Mine was an LX 5-speed and it ripped for being a cheap beige (champaign) sedan.

[@dougrobinson8602]

Speaking of sticking to an engine design, BMW Motorrad has been building Boxer twins for 100 years, and Harley Davidson has been building V-Twins even longer than that. That's commitment.

[@jm71681]

The conversation at 25:30 is one I've been curious about for a very long time. If I had the money to piss away, I'd pull the supercharger off of a Hellcat, and turbo it to the same window of PSI the stock supercharger makes, just to see how much more it could put down, and how it affected the real world usage of that car.

[@DustinDriver]

Oh! My first car, a 1981 Honda Prelude, had THREE valves per cylinder!

[@jasonmoyer]

Turbos were in racecars before street cars, just not necessarily in F1. In 1952, the pole sitter at Indy had a Cummins turbodiesel, and turbos came into fashion there by the late 60's. F1 didn't get them until Renault in 1977, but Indycars and Can-Am sportscars had been using turbos for years before that. And when Renault did bring one to F1, it was a 1.5L V6. My memory could be failing me, but I don't think 1.6L turbo-hybrid V6's with KERS and turbo heat recovery systems were really a thing in street cars when F1 adopted them in 2014.

[@billpayne9852]

Chopping up engines made me think of Allen Millyard. V12 motorcycles made with a hacksaw. Literally.

[@EmirOzturk14.]

#WhereisthePiechisode

[@emiliorescigno]

Ya'll gotta brush up on your Honda V6 knowledge! There are still only two Honda V6 families: the C, which was in the Legend/NSX/95-97 Accord, and the J, which is all other Honda V6es since then, including this new non-VTEC turbocharged variant.

[@Iamthestig42069]

3800s and Small Block Chevys aren’t always the most powerful things but there is something to be said for their dependability. I’ve had a turbo Mini, an E55, and 90s Subaru but now I’m in a TBI 350 k5 blazer and a 90s supercharged riviera simply because I’m not sacrificing free time to fix stuff all the time.

[@stooplimitee5596]

The AJ v8 works great in my 200k LR3. I think the timing chain problems were in the later 5.0 version in LR4 /RR. Correct me if I’m wrong.

[@jimiverson3085]

FWIW, the 75lb/ft per liter number for torque isn't quite a hard ceiling. The "closed block" flat-6 that Porsche introduced in the 2009 model year claimed to generate more like 80 lb/ft per liter.

[@ducbox572]

The 4.5 liter engine in the 458 produces 398 ft-lbs, 88.5 ft-lbs/liter. Engineering Explained has a great video on BMEP, the better indictor of engine power efficiency.

[@LZ6U]

Oh yes VW Group did inline six engines. From the late 70's possibly until the mid 90's. I believe Volvo (240) and Steyr-Puch (Pinzgauer) used some odd 2.4L VW inline 6 turbo diesel engine. This is the sort of thing we don't talk of as it likely lives in the Nutzfahrzeuge section of the parts catalog.

[@agb3344]

Team watching!

[@assininecomment1630]

Re. Early mass-market passenger cars with 4 v/cyl? 12:00 English maker, Triumph, used a Saab engine (1.7L SOHC 'slant' 4), in their 1972 Dolomite sedan. Being a of small-medium sporty(ish) passenger cars, in '73 they had an engine boffin from Coventry Climax (racing background) develop a 16 valve head for this motor. At the same time, the capacity was expanded to 2L, and the car was then called the Dolomite Sprint. Triumph advocates like to say this donk was the first to bring 4v/cyl to mass roduction. 😊

[@thehumanoid6543]

didn't coventry climax do the exquisite lotus elan inline four too?

[@assininecomment1630]

No, I'm pretty certain Lotus did the Lotus Elan 4s,@@thehumanoid6543.

[@dofalcao6995]

Big marine diesel engines have had 4 valves per cylinder for about/over 60 years now. The camshaft is still inside the block for ease of maintenance, but stuff like axial turbos that can be compared to the "new" twin scroll designs is nothing new.

[@6rimR3ap3r]

Wasn't the time 8V and 16V variants co-existed also the period where non-cat and cat versions were introduced?

[@jeffsloan9316]

Would love this in 4K instead of 720

[@darkwake3k]

NOx is a result of combustion chamber temperatures. 2500+°F. That can absolutely be from lean mixtures, among other factors. ✌️

[@nirfz]

Weren't there turbocharged F1 cars in the 80's or is my memory wrong? (when street cars were mainly NA) (My memory says they cranked up the boost for qualifying to make up to 1000hp and went for around 700 or 800 in the race. But i of course can be wrong)

[@takawaka1000]

5:12 the V6 from the NSX is based on the Legend

[@Trendyflute]

Apparently the "new Honda V6" is still a J-series, but with new DOHC heads and cam phasing instead of VTEC. The J35Y8.

[@HandsomeAlex25]

I agree with Jason's comments on the clips of the GMA-Cosworth V12 sounding too perfect... it's sooo clean that it somehow doesn't stimulate over a recording. A McLaren F1 does, Pagani's do, Ferrari's do... All of them sound nastier and angrier than the GMA motor... Now, the interior sound may be completely different when sat under the intake duct, but so far the videos aren't doing it for me.

[@kurtofer7988]

I always wondered with those headphones, if there weren’t people whispering all of those facts into your ears. Now, holy shit, you actually know what you’re talking about. Do you know how rare that is in our society today?

[@hduncan2587]

Jason, I suggest watching F1 and not just Drive to Survive. There's definitely some drama thrown into it in possibly misconstrued ways, but they also don't always show things that happen in the races. Last year, we heard Alonso complaining about Stroll's driving over the radio after being cut off (something Stroll seems to do a lot of-- there's a lot of development needed there), but that never made the DTS episodes. My girlfriend and I were laughing during the race because we were looking forward to those two butting heads as future teammates (it'd already been announced at the time), but nope... no mention of it. Even during the last race (Melbourne), seeing Toto looking closely at the Red Bull car as they were pitted under red flag for a second time, the eyes of Red Bull's entire team and the dirty look back from Toto... I don't know if that will even make the show, but it was an amazing standoff to watch. Or seeing Sainz sitting in his car during the red flag with a look of disappointed horror knowing what he'd done during the restart to his childhood icon. Watching the races and then catching the DTS season as a recap before the season starts-- it's a great way to get psyched. But also watching the races through all the relative dullness, to finally lean forward and cheer/exclaim about a track battle gone well or badly-- so much more fun than highlights.