Why You Might Be Wrong About Disney’s Most Controversial Decision

[@KingYertle082]

Hey Brickey! Long time watcher, first time commenter. I’ve greatly enjoyed your Disney analysis but this one really shocked me. I have a different take on the importance of Tom Sawyer Island. My 10yr old has Cognitive disabilities. He loves Magic Kingdom, but it gets overwhelming. Extreme visual stimulus, large loud crowds, and long tedious waits. Tom Sawyer Island is the only area of the park that provides an escape from that stimulus while offering a completely different, physical and tactile experience. At TSI he can run, explore and imagine his own story, as opposed to just experiencing a story. We visit TSI on every trip, because it provides my son a break from the typical attraction experience and the loud crowds. The Disney E-Ticket attractions are amazing, but it is MK's unique blend of E-Ticket, D-ticket, Shows and the TSI "playground" that truly make Magic Kingdom a magical experience for our family.

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

I'm autistic and when I was a young kid I loved the river boat and exploring the island and my Dad loved the cool air of the water... And I love the sandbox areas iof theme oparjks that are all going away...

[@tysona23]

I'm from the UK. I hate that they are destroying rivers of America 😢 it's a nice tranquil area in the midst of the stress that can be a Disney trip

[@LeePrice-r9u]

Disney doesn't have to remove Rivers of America to add a knockoff Cars ride. There's plenty of space or other ride replacement locations like Tomorrow Land Speedway or behind BTM. Rivers of America is the centerpiece of the West side of the park. It's Destruction will destroy that side of the park.

[@Mammothsaber-4457]

It’s highly impractical right now to build paths into those areas without either altering the haunted mansion que or removing the river

[@sharonshade4437]

@@Mammothsaber-4457why does WDW need Cars Land? Disneyland doesn’t have Pandora. Also, they are literally altering the Haunted Mansion queue at Disneyland currently. Seems it is not an issue on the West Coast. 🤷‍♀️

[@Mammothsaber-4457]

@@sharonshade4437 if I had to guess they want cars in the magic kingdom because it’s a popular I.p for a park that doesn’t get as much traffic as they think it should ( cars land in California adventure is like the main reason people visit that park anymore) also it’s not just a matter of altering the haunted mansion path, they’d have to destroy it altogether or at least greatly reduce it, the haunted mansion que changes in Disneyland are meant to expand it.

[@Primogen16]

Disney isn't getting rid of ROA because they desparately wanted to put a Cars ride in Frontierland. They wanted to get rid of ROA to improve guest flow and place Villains land on top of the north end of the river. Disney is putting in Cars because they needed SOMETHING to go into the leftover space on the south end.

[@LeePrice-r9u]

@Primogen16 There are 12 empty acres from the north end of the River all the way behind Fantasy Land. If Disney reworked the River like at Disneyland, there are a few more and upwards of 10 depending on how severe a reworked River would be. Also another 6-8 behind BTM. where they could put a Cars ride or better a new Frontier River Town. Then, rework the existing Frontier Land into Liberty Square and a New Orleans Square.

[@yamihoole]

Its not so much losing RoA, its that Cars does not fit in the surrounding area. The RoA fits with the historical surroundings. Cars does not. Cars got put there because it vaguely fits a southwest aesthetic. I've read the Imagineers original intent for this section of the park. There was a logical planned out flow going from Liberty Square all the way to Caribbean Plaza. Cars breaks that flow.

[@Skye_Writer]

You are not wrong about that, unfortunately. But they don't seem to take overall theming into account anymore, as we see with EPCOT. The Living Seas? Not anymore. Tell me, what characters have we got that are ocean-themed that we can put here instead? Nemo? Great, fine, let's do it. Nvm that it isn't educational anymore. :eyeroll:

[@GeoffZimmerman-e5x]

Sorry Brickey, you're wrong. I visit Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer's Island every visit to the MK. It's one of my favorite parts of the park! Though I would like to see a Cars ride, I spend far more time and get more enjoyment from ROA than I would on an ill-fitting replacement where you spend much more time waiting in line than the few minutes on the actual ride itself. ROA and Tom's Island are a time machine into America's past. I ride the river boat. I marvel every time (yes, every) at its working steam engine as it blasts steam from its twin stacks and churns the water with its stern paddle wheel. I explore the boat and its artwork. I think of the long-gone era of when steam was king. I enjoy Mark Twain's charming and witty commentary as the boat rounds each bend in the river. I journey over to Tom's Island. I explore all the paths, the caves, the mine, the mill, the fort. I cross the rope and barrel bridges and watch the water from the stream above splashing down the rocks. A simpler time. A place for adventure. ROA and TSI are fun and enveloping experiences you can enjoy at your leisure in contrast to a ride where you wait, wait, wait, get shuffled in, sped through, then spit out the end. There are many rides like that. Not so many like ROA. Plus, ROA is truly being underappreciated for the ambient aesthetics it contributes to Frontierland - but you'll know it when it's gone! Cars doesn't fit the area at all! It would be ripping a hole in the entire theme of the land. Whose idea was this??? It would go well in Hollywood Studios, or some other unused area, not here. Once Frontierland is trashed, it's gone forever...

[@scottmanies8614]

This is how it operates at Disneyworld. They leave it to rot to the point where it is most cost effective to replace than fix the problem. On the flip side TBA was re themed but they appear to have not fixed the reoccurring ride issues.

[@FreedomforHaiti]

That's been the m.o. at Disneyland, too. For example, Mike Fink Keel Boats was neglected until there was an accident, and thus the attraction closed permanently.

[@imtired1696]

Maintaining natural water attractions in a swamp climate is WAY different than maintaining natural water attractions in a dry arid climate like So Cal. And the costs of maintaining natural water attractions in FL might not be worth the return they get. You can at least admit that, right?

[@nadezhdasmirnovadefonce4483]

It's not Sleeping Beauty Castle in WDW in FL, it's Cinderella's Castle. I will miss ROA too.

[@drewwhitney7327]

Unrelated to the point, but let’s take it easy with re-assigning already common acronyms and abbreviations. TBA is To Be Announced.

[@duderdude4831]

Natural, classical Americana is core to Disney. Eliminating that kills the brand. Cars land is absolutely not a worthy replacement

[@zarajenkins6948]

There a business, it doesn't make money for them and people don't use it, best decision they have made, it will look beautiful when it's done

[@Thazo79]

Spoken like Bob Chapek. Forget the magic, the only thing that matters is 💰💸💵

[@Brandis13]

With that logic, RoA and many other areas and attractions should have been removed during the Pressler years, when they neglected maintenance at Disneyland as well. Remember when someone was killed because a pollard broke free from the rotted Mark Twain dock and hit the man in the head? The MK has so much unused space to fit in a new land easily. By todays standards the Jungle Cruise isn‘t the most exciting ride, but the Imaginees of the time still found space at congested Disneyland to put Indiana Jones where it is now instead of replacing Jungle Cruise. It just meant an effort, but they cared. If they cared, they would spruce up the island, make it a bit more fun, maybe, but otherwise leave it as a nice quiet place to get away from the crowds. It has been a while since I was at WDW, but when I saw the current state of the island, it broke my heart, so different and uncared from when I was there. Just take the „Old Mill“, wheels not turning anymore, of course it‘s boring. I loved to go in there and just spend some time watching and taking in the ambiance.

[@Flyoff1234]

Why settle for the Cars Land vs. Tom Sawyer Island when it’s pretty easy to include both? There are like 5 or 6 expansion zones that could have been used for the Cars (not) expansion. TSA is only falling apart because executives aren’t spending money on maintenance and they knew it would get demolished in the coming years. It sets the theme and mood for 3 lands as well as providing a less crowded space for guests. While it is “underutilized” land, the beautification factor cannot be underestimated. But at the end of the day, fans are waging a war against new vs. old instead of standing up to the executives who fail to maintain their attractions and expand the park. These people don’t want to spend the extra money to develop the expansion pads, which is a disgusting reason to tarnish Walt’s legacy.

[@Parkitecture]

11:33 Fun fact: The river used to have 2 boats, unfortunately they accidentally dropped one of them in dry dock

[@charvelgaming2975]

Disney has purposely let the ROA get to this condition. There is no excuse with the amount they charge customers to visit the park. Why not build around ROA and complete the loop around it somehow. I think the Cars attraction sounds fun, but it will absolutely destroy how beautiful that area looks now. There's so much space why destroy what a lot of guests love? Its all about $$$

[@bobwitter7319]

Disney neglected this beautiful area for years and “ now it’s a mess and too costly to repair “ is a completely bogus excuse. Let’s call it what is is …. A planned destruction. And revenue per square foot is also not a valid argument IF it’s really important to keep the brand and uniqueness of Disney. Walt designed his park to be just the opposite of an amusement park mentality. I guess New York could then use the same reasoning to pave over Central Park ….. look at all that retail space . This is a terribly misguided move . Lastly, as stated by many, thanks to Walt’s vision for the Florida project, this had unlimited location options if the current management really cared . SAD

[@lukeribeiro9361]

The worse part is Walt was dead well before the land for the park was even bought and, this isn’t Disneyland

[@Primogen16]

Park operations wanted to get rid of ROA, and I think they've cut back on maintainance for that reason. I heard that they stopped ordering new parts for the Liberty Belle.

[@MrMac1138]

They did not neglect it without good reason. The reality it there was not a lot of thought in putting it there in the first place. They realized quickly the issues that they could not fix. Nature in Florida is very different from California. Water moccasins, gators, and other nasty things quickly entered into the system and have made proper maintenance far more difficult that it is in California. This solves that long term problem that has plagued the park since 1971. The reality is putting in the Rivers of America was a terrible idea in the first place - but they had a need to copy much of Disneyland's layout without thinking too much.

[@RainbowHill01]

This is exactly what happened with Splash Mountain, I hope people start to realize that these things are planned

[@CLIFFLIX]

Disney is letting MANY attractions at WDW slide today. Every attraction needs to be maintained or it begins to look worn. Burbank doesn't like this location for historic political reasons and they are neglecting it deliberately in the hopes that we will be OK with it's destruction.

[@kevinpeterson6468]

When I heard cars was coming I was excited. When I heard when it was replacing rivers of America and Tom sawyer’s island I was heartbroken.

[@Parkitecture]

Loosing Tom Sawyer Island is a huge loos, I saw that as a huge Cars fan I have to confess I like cars 2

[@ChunkychunHealy]

You’re loss! You need to give it a chance!

[@briandavis6898]

They should do pirate Island like in Anaheim.

[@EC-gq7sx]

Unacceptable! Removing rivers of America with the excuse of ‘awe shucks we were too cheap to maintain it” - simply unacceptable. Loyalty to the original content and its history means something to Disney fans. Disney may experience even more financial hardship as people boycott the new and hotter land crowded/jammed into a space when they could really expand. They have the room. Why not have both?

[@greggregg4852]

and crappy food. don't forget to mention the crappy food.

[@Primogen16]

They can't expand into the area beyond the railroad tracks without getting rid of the river first because of the need to build guest paths to the area. Big Thunder Mountain completely blocks building a path on the west side of the river. Going behind Big Thunder means moving a lot of infrastructure (including a canal) required to maintain the river. Haunted Mansion makes it hard to build a path on the east side (and would be a VERY long walk for guests if they could somehow move the HM queue and hide the HM showbuilding).

[@SlackerWannaB]

@@Primogen16Figure it out. Disney has done problem-solving like this repeatedly at WDW, Disneyland, etc. Are you on their payroll?

[@EC-gq7sx]

@@Primogen16 This makes more sense than anything people are covering in vlogs. Thanks for the insight. Still am upset about losing the liberty belle and the river.

[@elsiestormont1366]

For my lifetime (I'm sixty), Walt's parks were known for their meticulous care in maintenance and appearance. The stage was always set and ready for GUESTS. They were the Tiffany of theme parks. This long-term neglect of an entire land is shameful. The corporation should have kept it up or updated it sooner. Yeah, it's always been about money, but it was worth the cost to visit a park that you knew was treasured. And safe. Neglect like this makes me question the safety of the entire park. They have lost the Disney standard of quality. A good reputation can be inherited with a name, but if the subsequent generations do not work to maintain and build on it, the titanic name of Disney can fall beyond redemption.

[@JohnnyRocket199]

I just wish Disney would actually expand instead of tearing down the old stuff. They have plenty of money and expansion land but they’re failing. They spent just as much money on Epcot (which was a let down) as universal is spending on epic universe. Not to mention the re theme of the entire corporations most popular ride. Walt specifically said he bought enough land to capture ALL the ideas that could ever be imagined. I would love a princess and the frog ride. I would love cars and villains land. But I already loved splash mountain and I love going to the river when I’m tired or over stimulated and most importantly the integrity of the theming and story telling of the park. I will be optimistic no matter what but bob iger is destroying Disney imo

[@zarajenkins6948]

It's not a museum, Walt always said the parks are never finished

[@phillipureno1614]

But, not everything has to be an IP ride. It's a PARK. The better parks have water. Why can't they just fix it up? They don't want to. Disney can do something to bring back the river and tom sawyer island. They can add a restaurant or a better adventure area for kids. Disney is creative...well not really lately..but you get my point. Dead ends, there are dead ends in many places at Disney in California too. Dead ends, I don't think is an excuse to add an IP and kill the rivers of America. Disney is getting away from the creativity they once had...when I was working as an Imagineer. Very sad.

[@ChunkychunHealy]

But, everyone likes IPS so shut up and enjoy it!

[@albertjimeno5315]

@ChunkychunHealy What an a-hole you are.

[@phillipureno1614]

@@ChunkychunHealy Not sure if you're trolling, but I'll bite. Thank you for your comment. From your comment, it seems you are fine with the filling in the Rivers of America. I'd be curious of your age. Although it may not matter. The problem with IPs is that they are only popular as long as the IP stays in the mind of the guest. Things that stand the test of time has been non IP things. As for me, being older, I value the traditional history of Disney over the new shiny IP. So in that case I won't "shut up" As you put it. Can Disney improve on the island and the river? Obviously yes. It's a Themed Park not an amusement park. An amusement park was what Walt wanted to stay away from. We have a difference of opinion but that is OK. Take care Chunky.

[@LeePrice-r9u]

The stakes were huge with the Splash Mt change to Tiana's it's broken again. They aren't up to the task anymore. To many employees that don't understand the Disney Difference. Or just don't care about it.

[@johngean4034]

Everybody's missing the point ... Walt Disney purchased over 27,000 acres ... 47 square miles of land in Florida for Walt Disney world and the big reason for that is so he would have enough room to put all the things he wanted ... Rivers of America has always been one of the things that he had wanted ... There is plenty of room to build new attractions and that is why he bought the land. They are going to start putting a animatronic Walt Disney at Disneyland and they probably will put one at Disney world and the animatronic Walt will be talking about his visions and attractions... It seems counterproductive since the people in charge are trying to remove his ideas and attractions... If this keeps going in several years there won't be many if any of his ideas left. It is called Disneyland and Walt Disney world for a reason but I guess in several years they will want to change the name too. 🤔

[@LilMzMandy]

I was just wondering if you knew that most of that land was set aside back in the '70s as habitat and wildlife conservation area. Making it completely unusable for anyone including Disney. That being a huge part of why Walt wanted to have such a big part of Florida.

[@Primogen16]

Walt bought all that land to build a city. Unfortunately, Magic Kingdom wasn't built in such a way that it could easily be expanded into the undeveloped areas on the outer perimeter of the park. You could build a Villains land outside the north-west corner of the park, or on a vacant plot of land two miles to the south of the park, but the problem is getting park guests to it.

[@THE_BaconPirate]

​@@Primogen16 Train/monorail.... Walt was nothing if not obsessed with transportation and moving people about here and there efficiently. I'm sure they'll make it easy enough to get to and from any new lands. Probably even including a newly themed hotel.

[@edstrong597]

So they neglect Rivers of America so that destroying it makes the most sense ? These new areas could be built without completely changing the original park design. Is Liberty Square next is what I was thinking? It will no longer be Walt Disney World, now I think it will be called Iger’s Disney Park. Thanks for making this video, you did a great job of explaining what’s happening and why. Keep up the good work! I will say this change should generate a lot of interest in WDW and a ton of ticket sales. Hopefully they “ build it better “ like Walt would.

[@JimmyRussle]

hardly anyone goes to the island or rides the Liberty bell and its been that way for a while. Disney would be stupid to spend money there when they could spend it somewhere that makes more sense .

[@edstrong597]

@@JimmyRusslethey could put a restaurant back on the island. They could have characters on the riverboat, or a band and some dessert and charge some money to ride it at night with a party on the boat. To neglect it and say see it doesn’t work is a Lame excuse. Although a cars land ride is much more exciting than a river. I just think they could have done both.

[@WhirlOmar]

They''ll just neglect the new thing. Brickey makes no sense here.

[@Skye_Writer]

@@edstrong597 That had been my idea, too. Theme it all to Princess and the Frog, put Tiana's restaurant there on the island, a jazz band on the riverboat...I know it doesn't exactly fit the Old West theming, but it can't be any more theme-breaking than them putting Redd the Pirate at the dock for meet and greets like they do now.

[@Skye_Writer]

@@JimmyRussle very true, and it's always cheaper to renew an area that isn't getting a lot of foot traffic now. Building infrastructure and foundations and utilidor corridors underneath takes a lot of money. If they can reuse an area that already has all those underpinnings, it's cheaper overall. Eisner's too-fast expansions in the 90s were incredibly costly and did a lot of damage to the brand. No one is willing to risk anything now because they are scared of pulling another boner like he did. They are playing things too safe these days.

[@LeePrice-r9u]

You are wrong. Is Rivers of America underutilized? Yes Does the island need remodeling? Yes That's on Disney to fix it. Just because Disney has dropped the ball on maintenance isn't a reason to remove something. You certainly don't replace it with a knockoff Cars ride.

[@Neanderthal24]

That may be true but Disney gains really nothing from renovating TS Island and everything to gain from that land and the IP they put there (Cars) it’s disappointing but I try to see the positives

[@danielthibodeau4316]

Disney did not drop the ball on maintenance in that area, they deliberately chose not to maintain an area of the park that wasn’t being utilized by guests so they could justify a reason to replace it. As someone who enjoys hiking and is a lover of nature, this saddens me but also, someone who is a business owner, I understand why this happened at Disney and how they can justify the decision.

[@LeePrice-r9u]

@Neanderthal24 I said remodel should have said retheme.

[@danielthibodeau4316]

@@LeePrice-r9u that’s an interesting take. I hear you there seeing how Tom Sawyer is very much a part of yesteryear. Your original post isn’t wrong either other than I do think maintaining that area was a deliberate decision by Disney not to do. There is too much analytics in business decisions these days and that definitely takes away from the details, and even customer service, that some companies, like Disney, were built on!

[@espo221b]

​@Neanderthal24 there is nothing positive about them ruining the parks. They hate American history and want to purge the parks of everything Walt cared cared about because it is pRoBleMaTIc.

[@kurtsims]

FYI, they drained ROA during Covid and repaired tracks and took the Liberty Belle out the back canal to the seven seas lagoon and to Bay Lake to the maintenance area. As a former CP and cast member in the 90's, I know the areas and land beyond the rail road and the back stage areas. There is way more than enough land to build this behind Thunder Mountain, and then have more than enough room for Villians and even a hotel with a park entrance. This is pure money saving cheap sh-t. The MK is the most popular park due to the theming. I'll just go to Tokyo Disneyland instead and probably will never go back to WDW. It's been almost 2 decades since I last went, so to hell with it. I spent more hours than I can count working by the ROA at the Patriots' merchandise cart. Hearing about this was like hearing a friend died and I just found out today, 3 years to the date that a friend died. I guess this just makes aug 21 even worse. Thanks for nothing destroyers of Disney.

[@johnmccaslin-doyle6917]

At what point does a theme park become an amusement park?

[@jamesf791]

I'm not here to argue, I am sad it is going away, but I am happy to see what will become. I was sad that 20,000 leagues under the sea is gone, but I am happy of what became. I was sad that Mr. Toad's Wild Ride went away, but happy of what became. I have memories of these rides/areas and can't wait until I make new ones in the new areas.

[@bvh94117]

how does cars in frontierland make good design sense?

[@yoopergamer2121]

I just hate how they just seem to be destroying something to “add” something. I feel like there’s plenty of space and empty land around this park that with little imagination they could have made some other area work for cars land. Yes it is under utilized space in the most visited park in the world. But it’s also a necessary break from a concrete jungle and a unique feature that should not be destroyed. 😢

[@ronon3849]

Disney has totally lost its way. The Splash Mountain disaster is just a preview of the future. Now, this impending demolition of one of Walt's visions of the Florida park shows how far it has fallen.

[@blurkkies]

I respect your opinion, Brickey. I am of the opinion that the vibe of the park (including ROA) is what makes it the busiest park in the world. Cars is not for Magic Kingdom. Disney is missing the mark continually lately, massively overpriced, parks in poor shape, and removing beloved areas that also work as natural air conditioning is just more misses. Honestly, WDW is going to be second place at best in the future at the rate at which they are burning political capital with their customers. It's just so sad to watch it all unravel. We went to Japan early last year, Disney is on a whole other level of greatness there.

[@the_mackshack]

Seems like the perfect compromise would have been to keep the front loop of the river, and then just built the new attraction where the back portion of the river currently is, extending out into untouched land as far as needed. You’d preserve the iconic views and nostalgic vibes along Liberty Square and Frontier land, while still bringing in something new.

[@tball8]

I wonder why they don’t just take out the Speedway which is already a car themed ride, demo that area, and turn it into the incredible new Cars ride as proposed at D23? Seems like that would’ve been simpler and much less expensive.

[@DrStarlander]

Yes, and instead of driving cars through a wilderness (which is questionable in 2024, kind of a dated idea) you could instead be driving exploratory rovers on an other-world planet if it's in Tomorrowland. Tron and Space Mountain would look behind this landscape as space "bases" and would finally -- for Tomorrowland -- create a sense of "place."

[@tball8]

@@DrStarlander Disney needs to hire us!

[@SagaciousSilence]

I think it’s also worth pointing out that thousands of families already ride the ferry boat to and from Magic Kingdom, and are likely somewhat less inclined to spend their precious time riding yet another boat very similar to the ferry boat they rode to get to the park in the first place. Not that it played a factor in all of this, as I believe that this decision was based on the needed millions of dollars of repairs for what Disney views as an unprofitable swath of land in the park. They will get rid of the rivers in the boat and replace it with rides shops and restaurants, which are going to make oodles and oodles of more money than the river.

[@sharonshade4437]

You are correct. Disney only wants to make more money; so hey, just scrap the ROA. I wish Disney could be convinced to do that to Tomorrowland at Disneyland, but they are willing to let that sit for years untouched. Even the old People Mover tracks from the 70s are still in place. They seem okay with letting that land sit and fester year after year. 😂

[@Alex-sh2ll]

I just want them to keep the river. I don’t necessarily care about the island. It does seem almost political that Disney is removing Americana.

[@kotch35]

Without the island the river is a lake.

[@marcoantoniogarcia38]

Is it nicer to walk around the river bank or Tomorrowland in the Florida summer? The whole place is going to feel like a parking lot.

[@RonVining]

I too, spent a good portion of my VERY EXPENSIVE, 8-Day visit to WDW on Tom Sawyer’s Island, experiencing Hall of Presidents, having lunch / hanging out at Pecos Bill, riding on Big Thunder, Haunted Mansion and The Liberty Bell, returning for dinner to dine at Columbia Harbor House, etc… to soak in the atmosphere that CAN NOT be found at any other Disney Park. Ya, that’s right, the scope of Orlando’s Frontierland cannot be found in Shanghai, Hong Kong, Paris, Tokyo or Anaheim…IMO! I grow tired of the mostly Disneyland Bloggers, endorsing Disney’s decision to gut my first Disney Park’s Frontierland, when your home Park’s will likely never be removed. You say there’s no history to the WDW vision, well…I’ve been exploring that River since 1975 and I disagree. My Grandfather took me and I’d like to take my Grandchildren one day. All Disney needs to do, is get a waiver from the District so that they can build ‘Beyond Big Thunder’ as we were led to believe they would. Out of D23, Disneyland is mostly getting ALL-NEW additions, whereas, WDW’s additions are subtractions…how does that help capacity? Why replace timeless timeless attractions that, IMO, cannot be replaced. Let that sink in! Just because the area needs to be repaired, doesn’t mean that it needs to be destroyed. When my Grandparents passed away, I bought their house. It was in a far worse state, top / bottom & inside / out than what I experienced in Orlando. I had two choices, I could bulldozer it or I could fully restore it with modern touches. Guess which I did? I fully DIY renovated it, now it’s a beautiful home that another generation can enjoy. Just as Disneyland restored yours, Disney World should do the same for mine.

[@RonVining]

BTW: Josh is not a “leader” for making this decision, he’s a coward, dishonest by not confronting the fan community, at D23.

[@RacerXgogogo]

First, thank you for discussing this with an actual, boots-on-the-ground approach. It's one thing to hold onto nostalgia (I STILL lament the closure of Mr. Toad's Wild Ride at WDW) but quite another to see the reality of the moment. Second, I am sad that you have to add a note about civility in the responses, but that's the world we live in. I do love the view, and have a fondness for what that area once was. But I also haven't had utilized it, walking around it instead. It's easy to be negative and just see the greed angle of this, but it honestly is a loss of money. It's a lake full of memories, but it's not really generating new ones... not in the way this new land could. And I think that's the biggest thing to consider: this is a new place to build NEW memories. And that can be a wonderful thing for so many. Yes, the actual topographic changes are something to consider (and kudos for mentioning that) but changing this aligns with Walt's own stance about Disneyland, in that it would never be finished, and always changing.

[@javiercortes5232]

Your phrase that its a lake full of memories but not able to create new ones, is really good and accurate. It encompasses all the discussion

[@TroyCorreia]

While the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island may not be making money, it is creating an atmosphere and a setting that is priceless. Amusement parks do not have areas like Disney parks have and do not create the escape that Disney parks do. Removing a place that can slow ones mind down in a busy park is only putting Disney in to the Amusement Park category, not the Theme Park category. The River and Island may need work, but with some work can make them a bigger attraction. Retheme the Island to a Pirate Island, clean up the river area and make it more attractive, give the Liberty Belle some updating to make it more like Disneyland's Mark Twain. Also, by adding the Cars Ride and Villain's Land back behind the existing river, it would add more space to the park helping thin out crowds and actually add new space and attractions. New attractions without eliminating old ones will give guests more to do too. This change will hurt the park. In time those younger guests that are use to Amusement Parks and don't care about that escape a theme park gives you, may not care and accept this change, but it will be at the cost of making The Magic Kingdom an Amusement Park and not a Theme Park...

[@jlperez3305]

Brickey, I've been a fan of your channel. As a WDW pass member, I enjoy your visiting the Magic Kingdom and the rest of Walt Disney World. But I strongly but respectfully disagree with this. To remove Rivers of Americs at any park is equivalent to removing Cinderella's (or Sleeping Beauty) castle or the Main Street USA railroad station. It's not just an attraction, but a classic and iconic part of the park. They should keep it.

[@HeyBrickey]

I respect your opinion and totally get it. I never want an audience that blindly agrees with me but a bunch of polite and passionate Disney fans that can disagree and discuss what we love about the parks. And you sound like one of those folks ❤️

[@jlperez3305]

@HeyBrickey Absolutely. I'm glad you're back at Walt Disney World. I myself just got back from a visit to Disneyland in Californis. Welcome back, stay hydrated.

[@kyle5555]

@@HeyBrickey yes. We disagree with you.

[@MrMac1138]

People just do not understand how much wildlife has impacted the area in ways that do not occur in California. The original engineers and designers quickly discovered that maintenance would be much more difficult compared to Anaheim and that wildlife would be an ever present threat to guests if they could not maintain proper barriers. That's why guests being too close to the water in boats has long been a problem. The water is filled with snakes and Tom Sawyer Island itself can get infested with all kinds of animals that it takes a lot of effort to keep at bay and keep away from guest areas. If they had known when laying out the park that this were a problem, they never would have included Rivers of America in the first place. But this was their first park outside of Disneyland and most of those working on it were not familiar with the Florida ecosystem, so they used many of the same rules from California. This section has been eyed for removal for a long time due to all the problems it presents - going back to the original plans to build Big Thunder at MK.

[@RainbowHill01]

​@@HeyBrickeyI love your content, thanks for hosting such a cool community that is able to respectfully discuss about things!

[@lostinart]

Perfect example of Disney removing something precious to replace with I.P. Without making improvements using what’s there. Instead of removing all that, how bout the tunnel from the island to the pirates que? And hey, maybe build more into it too?

[@SpiritOfTheSeasons]

I worked in a theme park in California in their entertainment division. Every year we ran a halloween event with mazes and scare zones and whatnot, but management wanted to get rid of it. Their argument was that on paper, our event made no money. They couldn’t prove that guests going to the special-ticketed halloween event were going for the mazes or the shows. But we all knew that if they got rid of the halloween mazes and shows, people wouldn’t pay top dollar to go to this special-ticketed halloween event. My point being, just because something doesn’t make money on paper, doesn’t mean it isn’t an important part of someone’s trip to the park. To your point on would a family have more fun on Racers or on the island, I think they would have more fun on Racers. But, I remember as a kid on Tom Sawyer Island running around and having so much fun with my siblings and family. We took so many pictures on that island that are still up in our family home today. I don’t have an onride photo of my family on Racers framed, why would I? The value of an experience that is so much fun for kids, that has absolutely no line is so high to me, and I think it’s a shame they’re getting rid of it.

[@craigtiano3455]

Yes, Tom Sawyer Island has suffered through demolition by neglect. They eliminated the keel boats long ago, and your only trip to the island is on a "raft". The rest of the waterway is used for the Rivers of America Riverboat. Ok, I understand why you'd want to remove this and replace this with something else. Villain Land could take over the Island, or even the space if the river itself is filled in. But, let's discuss the "vibe" of the area. It's quiet, with minimal noises that you wouldn't hear back by the Mississippi River was part of the frontier. Tiana's and Big Thunder Mountain are in keeping with the theme of the Frontier. Adjacent to Frontierland is Liberty Square. You've got the rather quiet Haunted Mansion. Villain Land is coming next to that. Now, let's throw in a 20th century Cars Land immediately adjacent to all of these attractions. How does that fit? It doesn't. Cars Land deserves more space, and that's why it should be taking over the Tomorrowland Speedway instead of the River.

[@DrStarlander]

I agree, it should replace the Tomorrowland Speedway as planetary rovers on a fantastical other world. It would be a cool-looking landscape and be something nobody has ever seen...a real chance for Imagineers to use their imagination. Cars driving through the wilderness is a very dated idea, did Disney run that by environmental experts? Who thinks that's a "good thing" to promote? Put a next-gen river rapids attraction there instead...Rivers of America 2.0. Keep the water, keep the wilderness, keep the vibes.

[@iseewood]

Excellent video. Excellent perspective. Still not convinced a Carsland belongs in the Old Western Frontier, but I think Villainsland, which will consume the northern side of the Rivers of America, will be a big hit. If it were me, I would shorten Rivers of America, build Villainsland and skip the Cars ride.

[@nzjonty]

Thanks for being honest and giving us your perspective. Well thought out and reasoned

[@Ratedgforgtfo]

The entire time I was on the island I was worried about gators. But also nobody is booking a trip to Magic Kingdom being like, "hell yeah I'm going to visit Tom Sawyer Island and ride the boat around". People will, however, buy park tickets to go on a Cars e-ticket. So I can see why Disney is doing it.

[@kirkvandewalker3574]

I get the business and unused space angle for Tom Sawyer Island. And not keeping up for Liberty Belle, TSI and Rivers of America. But them not maintaining and not refurbishing those areas/rides is a continued issue with WDW as a whole and their reluctance with doing any maintenance is something that has happened with the Magic Kingdom, Epcot, Disney Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom parks. The issue there is with WDW management (and TWDC) not spending the money to maintain and keep those pre-existing areas; unless TWDC stuffs WDW management's throats with money and scream "thou shalt fix this!", because not any one of the theme parks, rides in particular, are not allowed to go down and be closed for extended periods of time (it's a reason why the Magic Kingdom does not have the Holiday overlays for their Haunted Mansion and It's A Small World rides.) I think one of the biggest flaws with the "not" carsland concept art is... they're designing two outdoor rides that's made for Califorian weather and I very, very much wish WDI had moved to Florida so they could have properly design rides and spaces/lands for the Florida theme parks (and not have them be yet another outdoor, open field area with little to no shade.) I hope they reconsider and just enclose the two rides so that rain and thunder do not close the two rides.

[@willrontani5894]

Brickey, you are pointing out the perennial maintenance issues WDW has suffered from, and that points to bad management not taking care of their creators or their designs, treating the pop art as expendable. It is part of the OB problems the company has overall. You are not wrong, but I came to different conclusions.

[@greggregg4852]

further to your point, what is an example of new creations or designs at WDW?let's look at resorts on property. Art of Animation and Pop Century. looks like someone threw blue paint on a Motel 6.

[@GrifftyMcgriff]

Here's what needs to happen - Save the Island! As you said Brickey the negative space and the breeze you get from the island are huge, not to mention the lower walkway along the water through Frontier Land is one of the best walkways in any park in the US, My family and I invest a ton of time every year into Disney, I won't bother with Magic Kingdom's castle nor do I do the Tom Sawyer island or the boat, my family and I have been on the boat once in 15 years and never been to Tom Sawyer island. We live way up north nowhere near Disney butttt when I'm at Magic Kingdom watching the boat go around and looking out at the water hoping to see an alligator that's when I know I'm at where I want to be! Always wishing I would finally go on Tom Sawyer Island is something special to me, seeing the boat out of the corner of my eye but not caring to go on it means something to me. Build the new lands behind, Don't take away from an epic villain's land just take more space, make 1 or 2 tunnels for the train maybe add an effect in the tunnel, and make it so you can circle around from Haunted Mansion to Thunder Mountain.

[@maddercat]

They could do a million other things that fit with the vibes and refurb that area like building a SEA attraction or castle there. Cars is just a completely wrong fit.

[@craigwoods2355]

I believe they should keep the “park” in theme park. There needs to be open space where you can relax from the heart pounding rides and sensory overload.

[@jeffstoeger2974]

Brickey, is it worth giving up the island to keep up with Universal Studio and creating a new ride to keep things fresh. Great input and great insight.

[@ronaldeaton652]

Cars land in frontierland? Don't see the connection.

[@ChunkychunHealy]

They’re going into the Rocky Mountains!

[@FloridaSupremeDisney]

NO! NO! NO!

[@shansangr]

Cars attraction has nothing to do with history. The theme of that area is the past. I still do not see how a cars attraction would not ruin the vibe of the area. Disney has been almost criminal in not taking care of its parks.

[@Primogen16]

Well, to be fair, neither does singing bears or other anthropomorphic animals.

[@Chili327]

Once they remove Liberty Square it should fit right in to modern Frontierland.

[@yoopergamer2121]

100% Agree!!

[@sharonshade4437]

⁠@@Primogen16Umm, the animatronics are apart of Disney history.

[@tristancold3022]

I disagree. I think Cars is considered part of history in many ways. 1. The Location - Radiator Springs is an accurate portrait of many cities in the South and Southwest. Go visit Williams, Arizona and tell me if there’s history of the Gold Rush and Route 66 there or not… 2. The Character Vessel - The actual history of cars (especially in the US) is INSANELY fascinating. Think of all the different makes, models, accessories and brand names that you can remember being in Cars. Each one of these recognizable moments is history. I hope you can experience the new land once it’s here, while appreciating your memories from the past.

[@KarenB-t6x]

I think you have nailed what the two competing issues are: the value of nostalgia and scenic "quiet spaces" versus opportunities to make more money. And Disney has shown their hand time and time again on this one: making money wins out. There are no sacred cows if there is a chance to increase profits.

[@JP-1990]

No Rivers of America No Tom Sawyer Island No America Sings No Western River Expedition No Edison Square No Dick Tracy Crimebusters Guys... I think we need to bring back "Disney's America* as the fifth gate.

[@christopherjunkins]

I'd hate to see what today's Disney would do to that idea... *shutters*

[@Primogen16]

I like that idea, but does enough of the public nowadays like American history?

[@JP-1990]

@@Primogen16 A ton, actually. Yeah. So long as you have good rides, attractions, shows, and ambience, you can very easily get people interested; particularly if you included a lot of cancelled or discontinued rides. Also, not only could you co-sppnsor school trips from across America, which would guarantee large foot traffic, but it would also put you in the good graces of conservative critics both in the Florida government as well as within the Disney Fandom by bringing fun and exciting edutainment that celebrates American history and heritage.

[@christopherjunkins]

@@JP-1990 but would you trust the stateside disney to do it right??

[@PhilDonaldson]

@@Primogen16The current problem is that we don’t even agree on American history these days. 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@JamesBrown-hs9yz]

Nostalgia is priceless, I will spend mounds of money to connect with my childhood.

[@EstebanRapido]

8:40 Have you been on Tom Sawyer's Island Disneyland recently? It's not in great shape either. For both the islands, it's not the island's fault that Disney isn't putting money into the island. Recently, I visited Disneyland for the first time in 3 years. I wanted to go on to Tom sawyers Island but I knew it wasn't worth it, because Dead Man's Grotto was closed. Although, the main problem with your argument is, rides aren't everything. There are at least a few chances to enjoy a car ride as an attraction at Walt Disney world. Once this is over, there'll be no chances to enjoy a leisurely riverboat ride, a canoe boat ride, or a chance to explore the wilderness at Walt Disney world. It's not about more rides. It's about having unique experiences. The amount of money it would take to make Tom sawyers Island a better experience, would be nothing relative to creating two new lands after bulldozing the rivers of America.

[@marcoantoniogarcia38]

Disney don’t even know how to do exceptional anymore. The last exceptional thing they did was Cars Land and that was a long time ago. After that they’ve been mediocre at best.

[@sharonshade4437]

Or just IP overlays of existing rides and convincing you it’s new.

[@DrStarlander]

Cars Land is fantastic. Then, next door (literally, you can sadly see it from inside Cars Land) they built Avengers Campus, which from the name tips off how pedestrian it would be. "Campus." Hmmm. I just paid a couple of hundred dollars to go to a...campus? Yep. Like a community college campus. Or a business park for a generic tech company. There is zero fantasy, immersion, imagination, stimulation. Of all the places in the decades-old Marvel universe they could have built, they built a nothing-place nobody ever would desire to go to. Then they got to work on Tiana's Bayou Adventure and made that salt mine food co-op. Then they put a high school cafeteria in Epcot. Yeah, there's reason to be doubtful.

[@marcoantoniogarcia38]

@@DrStarlander Yes, completely agree.

[@ThemeParkThoughtsOG]

From a completely practical point of view, it's easy to forget that all of Disney World was built in a former swamp. A body of water that large in the park is always trying to revert back to swamp, and probably requires more maintenance than they'd like. No matter what anyone feels emotionally about the changes, removing all of that water will undoubtedly make park operations much easier and more streamlined and less swampy. I rode that riverboat in 72 and 73 and it was great, but the park and river were both brand new. Give a swamp a decade or two and it'll be right back. I'll obviously miss that ride but I still miss 20000 Leagues Under The Sea and nobody cares about that. 😢

[@Skye_Writer]

Well, the river is lined with concrete, actually. It's the only way they were able to keep the water in to begin with. But under Florida sun and heat, they can't keep out the algae growth, and it's really expensive to keep filled considering how fast it evaporates. It's just not one of those rides that translated well from the California climate to this one.

[@sharonshade4437]

@@Skye_Writerevaporates? It rains constantly there. Every attraction requires maintenance. They left Tomorrowland sit in California unattended for years, but they aren’t ripping it out. Gas guzzling Autopia is still running too. It is not about the maintenance, Disney just believes Cars land will squeeze more money out of park visitors pockets than the Rivers do.

[@espo221b]

Why do people defend the mega corporation like we should care about how much maintenance it takes to upkeep their park? Of course it takes a lot of maintenance. Being the best theme park is not easy. Letting your rides rot is not what disney is supposed to be about. Cutting corners and disregarding theming is not what Disney is supposed to be about. I will never understand anyone defending this horrible decision.

[@espo221b]

​@@Skye_Writerdisney charges you an arm and a leg to go to their park so they can let their rides rot? The disney corporation is most rotten thing atm. The entire regime needs to go. They are ruining everything. They can't even build a ride that works anymore.

[@DrStarlander]

@@espo221b There are many different perspectives in these conversations, and one group of people here take a pragmatic, realistic approach, keeping in mind that Disney is a business that needs to make a profit to exist. If it's not making a profit and becoming more valuable then investors (giant institutional investors like state pension funds, not emotional individual investors loyal to the company) sell their stock, then Disney has a bad balance sheet, has a harder time getting bank loans to make movies, build attraction, etc. and a harder time paying the interest and premiums on their debt. So then they then must stop investing, and things really fall apart. So, these people are not necessarily blindly defending Disney, but are discussing what is possible, where the company's resources should be allocated, within a framework of business reality and trade-offs.

[@disneywisebear]

The replacement of the Rivers of America with Carsland is disappointing-especially from a theme perspective of Frontierland. I worry about what the sight lines are for Haunted Mansion, looking over a northwest American frontier on one side, and Liberty Square on the other side. That’s what bugs me more than losing Tom Sawyer’s Island. I understand it’s more beneficial to Disney to have a new E-ticket focused on a popular brand. If they ever try to get rid of the Rivers of America at Disneyland, I will probably be more freaked out. I wish they’d focused on a better Frontierland-themed attraction, but they decided to go with this. I get it, but it’s still sad. 😢

[@TweetsieRailroader]

Brickey, thank you as always for offering your perspective. I did the Disney College Program back in the Spring this year, and on the days I was a guest, I always tried to make sure to hop on board the Liberty Belle whenever I visited the Magic Kingdom. It became my favorite attraction behind the Railroad, and admittedly, even I noticed the grimy appearance of the old boat. I think the problem I have is that it’s going to hurt a lot of the peace and tranquility that’s in Frontierland. Being on Tom Sawyer’s Island was always so peaceful, and it was always nice to just enjoy being in nature. Ultimately, however, despite my anger over the riverboat going away, I did appreciate your perspective on the matter. From a business perspective, it absolutely does make sense to get rid of it, and as much as I hate it, what matters more at the end of the day? Regrettably, it’s the almighty dollar. Thank you for continuing to make awesome content, Brickey!

[@Kevin-lo7se]

Thanks. Great points to consider before judging the plan.

[@frommewithlove13]

What an exceptional video, the info and insights you share are spot on! Great job Brickey

[@shaunygfunk]

I appreciate your honest perspectives. You’ve become one of my favorite KZbinrs because of your honesty, creativity, and the unique way you approach your content. Gotta get me a Vibes over Rides shirt to rock on my next Disney trip.

[@HeyBrickey]

Thank you so much 😊

[@tabcdemabcde4143]

Hey Brickey - love your channel. In addition to the obvious destruction of the theming described by just about everyone below, my other concern is the execution of what Disney will actually build. The area represented in the new Cars Land rendering measures about 4 acres, which about half appears to be for the new rally racing attraction. For reference, Radiator Springs Racers measures about 6 to 7 acres, Tomorrowland Speedway measures about 4 acres, and Toy Story land Slinky dog dash and Alien Saucers measure about 6 acres. So unless Cars Land grows further North into the back of RoA from what is shown on the rendering, I am nervous that Disney will not be able to execute properly what is shown IMHO. So I am hoping that Disney hears all of the negative feedback and pump the brakes on this retheme. If Disney has made the decision to eliminate RoA and TSI, I would rather they move Cars Land to the back 40 and retheme RoA to some type of 1800s river experience (rafting, barrel boats, canoes, River Country Part 2, skipping rocks across a pond, cane pole fishing, anything) but add a bridge to an updated / rethemed TSI, keeping the similar atmosphere, theming, and kinetic energy. Heck, maybe it could be called Splash [something]. At any rate, thanks for your insights.

[@albertjimeno5315]

If the old frontier is something “people don’t care about,” they should, they should care about their history, the history of this nation.

[@stevenburns521]

i have your shirt - so what happened to vibes over rides? if they let TSI decline and half broken it's not surprising that there are less vibes... but I got the shirt and now you're basically saying 'rides over vibes'?

[@jeffreyhughes7107]

From the perspective of someone with kids - Tom Sawyer Island is a sanctuary. The river boat is a nice diversion with little ones.

[@josueelombre931]

The body of water is expensive to maintain and isn’t a money maker. It’s just an expense.

[@Yurmom007]

I agree that the area is overdue for a refurb that's more relevant to current gens. I'd be curious to hear your POV on the impacts of Cars getting put there given the current state of Parks like: - Final product a downgrade from concept art - Lightning Lane and VQ impacts, new rides don't decrease capacity w/ these systems they just increase demand - Mechanical failures of new rides - relevancy of IP in MK. LMRA has not resonated well with crowds I feel like a good alternative would've been making it a Country Bear island since there's a nostalgia demand for that park IP that the company is riding with. It would be better for overall capacity by upgrading it without putting an inaccessible queue over it, match the sightlines while keeping the river.

[@QuatroAtYale]

As usual, a careful and thoughtful analysis.

[@craigsvonkin6710]

I'm very disturbed by the gutting of Frontierland at the Magic Kingdom. Just because the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer's Island at the Magic Kingdom don't work right now, at least not for most contemporary visitors, and the area clearly needs some sort of renovation, that doesn't mean that Disney should plop a sentient car area in Frontierland. First, it is unwise for Disney to get rid of a huge water feature. Second, Disney really shouldn't ruin the thematic logic of the park by putting sentient cartoon cars in the land that was designed to be themed to the western historical frontier. If this space is too valuable to leave as is, then Disney should rethink Tom Sawyer's Island, and perhaps also the river, but not put cartoon cars there. First, they could put boat traffic back on the river by bringing back the canoes. Second, the could create themed things for visitors to see from the Riverboat and canoes: animals, or cowboys, or western legends. They could also add a second sort of boat on the river. They should consider keeping the river, but putting a ride where Tom Sawyer's Island is, like that geyser mountain ride planned for but never built at Disneyland, or that unbuilt Young Indiana Jones stunt show (for Disneyland), or a western-themed ropes course similar to the adventure ropes course built in Shanghai, or a western legends ride (Pecos Bill, Paul Bunyan, and John Henry, etc.), or a bayous and New Orleans area (with a tunnel or bridge over or under the river), or something exciting that isn't tied to modern IP, like a balloon ride over the American countryside, with Camp Disney or a 19th century farm community where the island is now. People would still like an American west area if Disney were to build something cool there. And while talking cars are cool--I love the Cars Land at DCA--they just don't fit a western, frontier, past-themed area. Destroying the west and the river for cars: that would be a huge loss to the thematic logic of the park. And the fact that the space is underutilized doesn't mean that Disney should gut the theme entirely and thus destroy the thematic/spatial logic of the park. The Imagineers are creative, plus there are great older Imagineers who could be brought in to come up with a great ride to revitalize the area. Maybe Disney should hire Eddie Sotto. He had his start at Knott's, where he designed an unbuilt but impressive flooded town river rapids ride. Heck, hire Eddie, give him a big budget, and he could revitalize the area, keeping the river, and saving the frontier or western theme for the area.

[@valeriemcdonald440]

Just maybe, more people would be enjoying the river if Disney actually did the upkeep. I don't particularly care about the island. I do care about the riverboat. Believe it or not, one of the selling points of theme parks is that you pay to get in and then the rides inside are free. I'm not interested in buying cars land popcorn buckets. I'm not at all against cars land though, I'm against this slapped together nickle-and-diming design approach.

[@JBX302]

How?! How does this man cover so much ground so well!?! Your designer’s perspective, your candor and humility are unparalleled. This channel is absolute excellence. Thank you, Brickey.

[@b18c1love]

Ur gay

[@jo3yd12]

I completely agree tbh! I do love the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island, but the sad truth is that I never ever go on them, I think the best part of them is the aesthetic and kinetic movement that they provide. The thing I think people don’t understand is that this is a huge cars land without any show building, so that kinetic energy and aesthetic will still be there! Will it be different, yes of course, but I think it will be different in a very good way!

[@Qenton]

I was there 22 years ago. The river was forgotten then, it was a shadow of what Disneyland had. So I happen to share all your feelings on this and pretty much knew as soon as they showed the picture at D23 where it was going. I didn't need to wait till Monday. At Disneyland they have a major money making show that keeps the river running, they have to keep both boats in perfect working condition. It is also a major estuary. Probably somewhere between 5 to 10% experience the river as an attraction and a huge amount see the show on it. In all your shot in this video I didn't see one Bird, why? Because Disneyworld has hundreds of Acers of wetlands for the birds and other animals. The Rivers there doesn't serve any purpose, no shows, no habitat, just a spot where 1% goes in the park. It is a swamp... it looks like a swamp... and you can get that almost anywhere you go in Florida.

[@kennyburgess1756]

Wonder where there going put the library bell , disneysprings?

[@NealHunterHyde]

Did you say it WILL be fully interior?

[@GlenHallstrom]

Brickey, well done. You make some valid points. Now, Devil's Advocate time - speaking as a person who grew up 20 minutes away from Disneyland and have never been to WDW when you sad that the Tom Sawyer/Mark Twain/River Belle era is something that most people care about, wouldn't that also apply to the Rivers area at Disneyland? I would be devastated if Disney ripped the Rivers in Anaheim but what is preventing them to at least consider it? Especially since the Anaheim park has so much less room as compared to Orlando. Just something to think about...

[@TheRealVolk]

Just do what you did last time (your Splash Mountain livestream) and call anyone who disagrees with you a racist bigot. If only I could unsubscribe again…

[@marcoantoniogarcia38]

Are you serious? That’s the worst thing that could ever happento the MK. The River gives the whole ambience to Frontierland, it’s essential to the theming and it makes the area beautiful. It’s also the only peaceful and quiet place in the whole park. They already removed the submarine lagoon, now this is the only body of water left in the park. Can you imagine cartoon cars running by the HM? Or by a 1800s Frontier town? That’s going to be even worse than the Snow White trailer🤦🏼‍♂🤦🏼‍♂🤦🏼‍♂

[@MrMac1138]

It is also filled with snakes and has been an ongoing concern since 1971.

[@Skye_Writer]

@@MrMac1138 Yes, unfortunately. Look, I'm a MK girl all the way, the park and I are nearly the same age. But Walt got so tied up in his whole experimental community project that he put no real time into the design of DisneyWorld. He didn't even want to build another theme park, but it was the only way anyone would move ahead with the EPCOT plans. I think if he had spent any real time down here in Florida, he might have thought better of just transplanting attractions wholesale from the steady California climate to the unpredictable and often harsh one of Florida. The plain and simple truth was that they had a MUCH HARDER time keeping up with maintenance on 20,000 Leagues and the Rivers of America areas. (The Jungle Cruise, too, actually, though it's still running. So no, the Rivers of America is not the only body of water left in the park.) Water attractions are VERY DIFFICULT to maintain in the Florida sun, as any outdoor water that isn't chlorinated would be. (Trust me, we have a fish pond, I KNOW how difficult it is.) The Rivers of America is not shaded enough to keep the sun off, and it's not cold enough to inhibit algae growth. It's not deep enough nor is it fed by a natural water source, so keeping the water levels up is incredibly difficult with all the evaporation that happens. It is climate and climate alone that made 20,000 Leagues Submarine ride too difficult to maintain, which is why ours became irreparable so fast yet DisneyLand still has theirs, just reskinned and renamed. 20,000 Leagues closed when I was still under 18, and we honestly wondered whether Rivers of America was going to last much longer. I'm shocked it has remained viable for 50 years. Honestly, I'm shocked the Island has held up as long as it has, since it appears to be made mostly of wooden buildings -- it has been forever since I was there, I don't remember if it's real wood or if, like at EPCOT, everything is made of fiberglass and concrete. Real wood rots VERY quickly in the Florida humidity.

[@espo221b]

​@@Skye_WriterThere are two issues. One is the one everyone is focused on: getting rid of the rivers of America. The other is replacing it with Cars. Disney is getting rid of frontierland. It is a travesty that they are ruining the backbone of Walt's vision. If they want to turn the island into something else that is fine, but why ruin the theming with Cars? The western town and liberty square is next on the chopping block. It is a shame that the very soul of these parks is being torn out and replaced by shallow nonsense.

[@DrStarlander]

@@espo221b I agree. Putting cartoony Cars there is the salt in the wound. They could have put a wilderness rapids river ride there which would have kept a scenic waterfront, added waterfalls, geysers, and used less concrete, to keep people cool, and would have fit the theme. Rivers of America 2.0.

[@espo221b]

@@DrStarlander amazing idea. Better than anything disney has come up with this passed decade. I always wished they would expand beyond big thunder with new Orleans square. But instead they had to ruin Splash and shoehorn 1920s new Orleans into 1880s old west.

[@eizel10]

I was heart broken at first but then I thought when was the last time any of us Disney Worlders stepped foot in Tom sawyers island and rode the liberty bell? It’s pre pandemic for me.

[@espo221b]

You don't have to set foot on it to enjoy the theming and vibes of that area of the park. Imo frontierland/liberty square was the best park of the park largely because of the river.

[@ChunkychunHealy]

@@espo221b but, now a days I see liters hardly anyone on it!

[@robertnove528]

If they are going to keep TI at Disneyland can they at least take care of it? When I went there in June almost the whole Island was run down, closed or broken.

[@HeyBrickey]

Agree. Too much is closed on the island currently

[@sharonshade4437]

@@HeyBrickeyToo much closed everywhere at Disneyland.

[@Chili327]

I agree it is heart breaking, but I do understand its business. I don’t think actually visiting the island or actually riding the boat is what will be missed, it’s the vibe, riverside, that wooden path along the shore with the river and the boat as the view. Hopefully they do it so well we don’t miss it at all, but I have my doubts.

[@JasonGillard-design]

As a fellow designer, I love your approach and totally agree with you on this. They will need to nail it though. The 'west' is a big concept- including things like Rocky Mts towns etc - and really think they can do it. Anyway, great work Brickey!

[@mattjbg7025]

Also, u r super insightful and smart. Very refreshing when it comes to online disney discourse

[@jandalight1598]

The best Disney park related content - this channel Is criminally under subscribed!!!

[@HeyBrickey]

Thanks. I appreciate that, but we're getting there!

[@Primogen16]

I only discovered the channel a couple of months ago, and now it's one of my favorites. Hopefully, the exposure Hey Brickey is getting on WDW News Today will help grow subscribers.

[@greatdayadventure_]

Great video! Sad to see Tom Sawyer Island & Rivers of America go, but definitely agree with you! At least the Disneyland’s (the original) & the other Frontierlands’ Rivers of America will still be there.

[@Blatsen]

Disney's neglect of the Magic Kingdom’s Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer’s Island is no excuse to get rid of them. They should be restored, not replaced. I would love to have a California Adventure caliber Cars Land at the Magic Kingdom or elsewhere at Disney World, but not at the expense of the Rivers of America. Not every Disney World guest has the ability or desire to also visit Disneyland so having a similar Cars Land at Disney World is not an issue to me. I love the water, lush landscaping, and peaceful, parklike atmosphere of the Magic Kingdom’s Rivers of America and would hate to see it destroyed and replaced. I’ve always wished that Fantasyland and Tomorrowland had something similar to the Rivers of America as they both have large areas that are ugly, poorly designed, unpleasant, sparsely landscaped concrete and metal jungles. Disney seems bent on removing as many references to history and traditional Americana from their parks as possible. It’s stupid to destroy the scenic and gorgeous Rivers of America when there is plenty of space to build Cars Land elsewhere. If Cars Land must replace any existing attractions, it should replace the lackluster Storybook Circus or equally terrible Tomorrowland Speedway. I don’t mind the removal of Tom Sawyer’s Island as an attraction as long as the island itself remains beautiful, tranquil, and befitting of the area, but I do care about losing the ambiance of the Rivers of America. The Rivers of America is my favorite location at the Magic Kingdom in terms of ambiance. Destroying Magic Kingdom’s Rivers of America will be the dumbest, worst, most inexplicable blunder in Disney parks history. Losing Rivers of America is even worse than removing great attractions like Horizons, the original Journey into Imagination, or World of Motion as this doesn’t just eliminate or ruin one ride, but ruins the ambiance of a significant portion of what is the flagship park of both Walt Disney World and the Walt Disney Company as a whole.

[@lgwapo6793]

Looks like we could use a volunteer hiking/biking trail crew to help fix things up on the island. I’d be down to help volunteer my time to get things ship shape.

[@David_Smith_]

Hey dude, i appreciate you! Thanks for the great video!

[@disneyjack1]

New sign in Frontierland “Welcome to Frontierland. Here, those young at heart will explore the gritty adventures of America’s pioneering past, and leap ahead 150 years as they drive rally cars across snowy mountains”. New sign in Liberty Square “Welcome to Liberty Square. Here, relive the days of the first American patriots as they explored the meaning of independence, and leap ahead 250 years as you drive…blah, blah, blah”

[@SF-wm7zf]

It is not about a design, upgrade issue or even a popularity issue, it’s about current day Disney getting rid of everything Americana from their parks

[@MrPaynejoh]

You are right. This is the REAL issue

[@bvh94117]

if filling in roa is such an awesome idea, why didn't josh announce it at d23?

[@jasoncarbone5553]

What a hot topic Professor. Both sides of the coin have compelling arguments. Ultimately I believe this is about progress vs. perfection and progress generally wins this argument. The other topic that no one is talking about is that this massive change to #2 will further give it a unique and compelling story that is different from the mothership and as such should lure folks from the west to head east for attractions and lands that are unique and not available to them. Sad to see this area go the way of the dodo, but if they can nail this your POV Brickey will prove to be Carnac like! Keep the vibes flowing!

[@KReck1313]

Where is that hat from? Love it!

[@sizzlemann]

Yay! Finally someone else that thinks that TS Island is a waste of space compared to TS Island at Disneyland. I've been saying that since I visited WDW a decade ago. If anyone who is complaining about this being removed. Go see the original at Disneyland then. It's vibe is so much better.

[@espo221b]

Why should we be okay with disney ruining their theming because disneyland' island is better?

[@ChienaAvtzon]

@@espo221b - There is a reason when designing Frontierland for Disneyland Paris, the imagineers chose to put Big Thunder Mountain on the island, instead of recreating Tom Sawyer Island. They learned that the island could easily turn into a waste-of-space without a major attraction on it. If anything, Magic Kingdom should reroute the river and turn the island into a peninsula.

[@espo221b]

@ChienaAvtzon That would be great. Anything is better than shoehorning cars into frontierland and destroying the theming. They're turning frontierland into the same mess Tomorrowland is in.

[@ChienaAvtzon]

@@espo221b - While “Cars” is a weird fit for Magic Kingdom, due to Pixar usually going into Hollywood Studios. Children would much rather race around a national park setting in a car, than wonder around some lame fort. Reroute and keep the Rivers of America, but Tom Sawyer Island has got to go. Even if it were not falling apart, the entire thing is an outdated and pointless waste-of-space.

[@espo221b]

@ChienaAvtzon why don't they just hire a 5 year old to run the park? They should reroute and keep the rivers if America. The problem is they are not.

[@Jinkyleizle]

You have great perspective and ability to translate into a teaching moment for a novice like myself. I do think you have a pulse on things that most don’t see keep it up! WDW is my home park now so I’m excited to see more of your videos here also ❤

[@realestateunplugged6129]

They could re energize the entire ROA, cut it in in half and add new show scenes and attractions around the river and on the island.

[@DrStarlander]

This reminds me that Robert Niles did a great article on the canoe attractions at the Disney Parks in Theme Park Inside a few years ago... It would be cool if they revamped Tom Sawyer Island with tunnels and show scenes that you can see from canoes and brought them back. You'd paddle through the dark ride! Each canoe fits around 18 guests. I wonder if they had a 4 or 6 lane loading dock if they could get one canoe out onto the river every 40 seconds, and match the hourly occupancy of Radiator Springs Racers at 1,500. It requires two CMs on each canoe but the capital and maintenance costs of the attraction would be so much lower than the Cars attraction.

[@realestateunplugged6129]

@@DrStarlander Cool! They don't even have canoes currently at Magic Kingdom. I like that concept, add new show scenes like you mentioned, maybe even a new boat to circle the river and jump into a show scene river tributary or cave or mountain. 👍 Cool idea!

[@admiralthrawn1287]

Great video. I was definitely very upset when I heard that Tom Sawyers Island was going to go away but after hearing you talk about it this way I have to say I agree with you. As long as TSI stays in Disneyland then at least it is honored somewhere and gives you another reason to go to DL. MK definitely needs more space and foot traffic. I do still feel they could easily move the Cars land north around the river but I can financially justify why they are doing it and that it will make the travel distance not so far with also allowing future growth. Good video sir.

[@Primogen16]

From everything I've heard and read, this decision was largely driven by requests from park operations. They have long wanted to get rid of ROA. It impedes guest traffic flow due to the dead-ends at Haunted Mansion and Big Thunder Mountain. It is also very difficult and expensive to maintain because of all the Florida storms. I read one post from a guest who said that castmember told him the the island had become structurally unsound and unsafe for guests. The river bed is currently in very bad shape, as Brickey says, and Operations doesn't think it's worth the huge cost to fix for two attractions that are hardly used by guests. So Disney management made the decision to have Villains replace the north end and chose Cars (over competing Imagineering proposal of Coco) to replace the south end.

[@Skye_Writer]

That makes at a lot of sense. The Florida climate was just never a good fit for this kind of attraction, at least, not the way it was done. It's too shallow, making any loss of water due to our LONG summers easily visible; the weather was never going to make anything other than treated, chlorinated water able to to fend of the algae; and humidity and the rains were never good for the wooden structures that were put in back then. These days, they understand the climate better and everything is made out of materials that can withstand the climate; and let's not forget all the snakes on the property. It's a 53-year old attraction that no one actually uses much anymore, and while the nostalgia geek in me was at first infuriated to hear they would take it out, the rational side of me realizes that it makes sense. And when I was a 40 year old having to walk that loooong stretch back from the Haunted Mansion back past Liberty Square to get to Adventureland, I seriously wished there was a way to cut across the river to get there. Idk, I feel like it's ridiculous to get upset until it's completed and we get to see what it REALLY looks like. But since a Disney trip is so damn expensive these days, the chance that I will ever get to visit the park again before I die is pretty much nil, so...I don't really have a dog in this fight.

[@DrStarlander]

But why was it Cars vs. Coco? That's a big part of the problem. Why wasn't it: what can we create that embellishes all the surrounding themes of Frontierland, has incredible vibes and atmosphere and WATER, has high-occupancy, and will be relevant for decades? I think framing this as "what movie should we put here?" is a key part of the backlash.

[@Primogen16]

@@DrStarlander It has to do with IP that hadn't yet been used elsewhere in WDW (Disney management has a mandate that all future attractions must be based on IP) and of those, what might fit, or be made to fit, with some definition of the word "frontier". Cars won out over Coco because the team proposing it made the case that it would sell more merchandise in the park.

[@espo221b]

@@Primogen16 Disney has lost its way completely. "We need everything to be based on an IP, so what can we shoehorn into frontierland that makes no sense?"