Adverse Effects from Meditation Part 1 - Difficulties

In this video I explore some of the examples of adverse effects that people can experience when practicing meditation. I share a little of my own experience with this near the end of the video. Part 2 looks at some tools that can help with recovery from these challenges.
Useful supports:
An article I wrote on this topic: Lost in Oblivion - An Exploration of Adverse Meditation Experiences themindfulnesscircle.com/blog/...
Cheetah House www.cheetahhouse.org/
The varieties of contemplative experience www.brown.edu/research/labs/b...
David Treleaven Trauma Sensitive Mindfulness davidtreleaven.com/

[@mysecondrealemail]

Thanks for the video John. I get psychotic symptoms after meditating for 1-2 minutes

[@jonnysaytherapy]

Hope you're working with a therapist/psychologist with expertise in psychosis. You may want to check out Willoughby Britton's work at Cheetah House

[@sr2291]

Define "psychotic".

[@deinszukovskis6215]

Just read the article on your page about this. It is truly a great and very helpful article. Thank you.

[@jonnysaytherapy]

I’m glad you enjoyed it and hope you’ve watched part 2 for working with this and the recently released video for working with meditation adversity in practice

[@FOJO27]

Thank you for sharing your own personal experiences - it's beyond refreshing. Relatable content. Feel so much less alone. (New subscriber)

[@jonnysaytherapy]

Thanks for the feedback and glad it is helpful, you’re certainly not alone.

[@jordanjmdjmd74]

People trying to hijack their central nervous system and induce psychosis. Mini sensory deprivation

[@jonnysaytherapy]

This is definitely one of the mechanisms that is involved for some people, although clearly there is more to it as many people don't have these issues even with 50 years plus and many long retreats, people have adverse effects with much smaller doses, psychosis is not the only adverse effect people experience (and is not the most common according to Willoughby Britton's research). We obviously need to know more about how to spot the people vulnerable to this, support them and provide alternative ways to practice in safer ways...

[@yashjain5249]

Hey John i am struggling from anxiety and after seeing your vedios on meditation causing adverse effects i am really concerned and scared that should i really do it or do something else .

[@jonnysaytherapy]

Hi Yash, I would view the practices that I have on ACT skills, OCD skills, anxiety and depression skills as different from meditation. We are learning skills of attention, acceptance, compassion etc to use in action in our lives, using our thinking brain where it is helpful. The clients that I have worked with that experienced psychosis all were doing intense meditation retreats, many hours a day in silence for 10 days or more. ACT and compassion focused therapy are both used as treatments for psychosis and are safe to use in that context, they are adapted by not spending long periods of time in stillness practicing, to practice short sessions and integrate the skills into life. You can also utilise more cognitive strategies from approaches like Cognitive Behavioural Therapy for anxiety disorder as another alternative. The key is to find an approach that works for you and gradually builds skills up, rather than practicing too intensely on your own. If in doubt work with a therapist or mediation teacher with a therapy background to help you navigate these questions...

[@yashjain5249]

​@@jonnysaytherapy can I get help from you

[@jonnysaytherapy]

@@yashjain5249 if you email me I can discuss options, presently I have a waitlist but have some people I recommend with immediate availability

[@ritz6982]

I dissociate in a scary way when I try to be present in my body using mindfulness. I’m partaking in a rehab project for people with chronic pain and fatigue. We’re guided to be present in our bodies and connect to our inner self. I can never do this. I panic and then become numb. I have to quit the session every time. I am the only autistic person in this group and I can’t relate to anyone else. I have never been helped by CBT or mindfulness. No one believes me though, they just say I am doing it wrong and it will work if I do it correctly. I don’t think it’s good for me to try and feel everything and go into my thoughts and feelings too deeply. I have severe over sensitivity to all stimuli and it breaks me to go into feeling all this awfulness. I am always uncomfortable in my body due to my over sensitivity. I have become severely depressed since I’ve started this project, I feel like an utter failure and like I am completely alone in this world.

[@jonnysaytherapy]

I'm sorry to hear your experience, it might be worth checking out Cheetah House resources for adverse meditation experiences. The way I use ACT and compassion practices for recovery when people are experiencing what you describe is to not practice them as meditation and long practices of going inside. Instead to use the skills to connect more with actions and activities in the world, people, also to engage task focused thinking and attention together rather than just meditative awareness. With Autism it can be useful to find ways that you can access more soothing ie with less sensory input but non meditative, finding repetitive actions that are supportive, activities of interest etc. I have an interview with an autistic client on this channel about what was useful for her to practice which you might find interesting. For pain some people find it more useful to focus out into the world and to use different focus points to help with this, sometimes compassionate supportive self-talk can be more helpful. Sometimes health distraction. It could be worth finding a therapist with more specialist understanding of Autism and pain...

[@ritz6982]

@@jonnysaytherapy Thanks for replying. I live in Sweden and don’t have options within the public health system. Been going to the same psych clinic for 10 years and never received any meaningful or lasting treatment. The rehab I have been trying to attend is at the only clinic in the country that deals with chronic pain and fatigue, so after this there is nothing else.

[@jonnysaytherapy]

@@ritz6982 I would look into Alan Gordons work as an alternative to mindfulness and cbt for pain. You might look at my ACT skills for pain video and the strategy of just acknowledging the pain and then focusing out more. Also the dropping anchor for overwhelm practice. Building up your own sensory soothing approaches for Autism. Self-compassion and values connection practices as other alternatives (see on this channel). Also the recent Andrew Huberman podcast on pain with Dr Sean Mackey