Advice on Learning New Characters

[@TohoEggbirb]

it took me 10 years to learn all these characters. I forgot how to play in 2 seconds.

[@seabear3874]

THATS ABOUT IT

[@MrDrumStikz]

As a musician, I'm always surprised at how similar the learning process is for fighting games.

[@chromulus2225]

Honestly I feel like learning fighting games has just made me better at learning life skills in general. Like I'm trying to improve my art skills and I can just compare it to learning fighting games. Learning basic shape construction for the human figure is like learning neutral and learning anatomy is like learning set ups. Maybe I'm just weird but it helps me to create some analogy to fighting games to help learn skills.

[@ИванСкороваров-ц5т]

Takes around the same time too.

[@Puffzilla777]

No wonder I suck at both

[@iorilamia]

As a stoner , I agree

[@sylascole5254]

@@chromulus2225 Moving laterally in complexity is always easier than moving vertically. Hard to learn complicated stuff for the first time, but once you do, you always have another thing to compare it for the second, third, or fourth difficult thing you try to understand.

[@SilentSolvent]

The analogy of fighting games as a whole being the instrument and individual games/characters being like different songs is perfect.

[@Luckydeath973]

How do you switch your shirt that fast ? 6:31 ? That was like 3 frames at most. Teach me the secret discord tech please

[@demonkingnobunaga]

My favorite part of learning a "new" character is how I gotta learn how to play baiken again for the 3rd time

[@BBGunRenegade]

One thing Sajam has also said in the past about learning new games/characters is also to just jump in and play. I think too many people think they have to learn every single setup and combo with a new character before playing other people. You really can just learn a few pokes, an anti air, and a basic combo to start playing against other people. Then you can learn what else is missing as you play more

[@Loansome_]

I second this, still trying to get into fighters and spent too much time in training/trial modes with some games. I find myself having more fun and understanding more from the games where I just played against others.

[@Uber_scorpion]

I do this. I for one find spending large amount of time in training mode super boring. I have more fun just learning on the fly.

[@robertwizzy666]

Kudos to this. I 100% spent like 10 minutes with Baiken in Training mode, downloaded a combo, tested it, then went online and fucked around with her for 15 hours. In between i'll try 5 minutes of combo labbing and stuff, but straight back into matches.

[@sebasoler5347]

To me the exception is when the game has totally different mechanics, the its not a "bad" thing to lab a while. I mainly played 3rd strike, but recently I wanted to get into P4AU and it was completely different, so I had to spend a few hours trying to remember how the thing worked because it was too much information for my monkey brain at first

[@deathbringer9893]

ima be honest i cant do this i love doing sick combos so il stick the training mode looking at combos and blockstrings looking at tournament how they play then i go and play the char against other people

[@samthemessiah9330]

I'm learning piano and everytime im practicing a new song i always think of it as a massive combo

[@JustSoji]

"this shit ass piano ate my inputs"

[@artoriasalter5700]

I am so happy that you addressed this. I got so down after picking up Baiken after playing Sol exclusively since I picked up Strive. I wouldn't know which button to press how to pressure or even do a simple combo. I was absolutely clueless and it felt as if I was starting from square zero.

[@SashaSlvt]

i played solo millia and wanted to pick up baiken spent a week learning her moves and once i went online my mind still kept doing millia shit on baiken and i felt so down thinking i can’t learn more than one character.

[@chris-cu3kl]

I like your analogy to learning an instrument because after playing for so long, I realize that my proficiency with my fightstick is so much better than when I started that I can confidently learn more executionally demanding combos that I would've never thought I'd be able to do as a beginner. It's hard to explain to new players unfamilar with the controls but as you've played hundreds if not thousands of hours with one controller in many different games, you can just hit the buttons real good. Now if only I spent this much time practicing guitar

[@zatharista]

When the shirt change at 6:30 is as smooth as the segues, you know you have a W.

[@buritosman2824]

Strive is my first fighting game, picked up i-no and made it to heaven, just started playing around with axl and it feels like I'm playing a different game

[@blargh559]

I like the musical analogy, if you just learn to play a single song on a specific instrument, learning another will probably take close to as long, but faster since you have some experience. But if you learn all the chords/notes, aka the building blocks the song is made from and go from there, then learning every future song goes a lot faster, but your first full tune is further out. I know the intro to smoke on the water on guitar but I don't know any chords, I can only play that lol

[@georgesears934]

While I understand the music analogy, the problem I personally run into when learning a new character, nowadays, is that it often doesn't feel like I'm being handed new sheet music, but that I am being asked to learn an entirely new instrument, and I keep trying to play the new instrument with the same skillset I used to play the old one. If I've gotten competent with a character that has a dive kick, an advancing low profiling move to get under high projectiles, and an advancing mid that's plus on block, and then I'm trying to learn a character who has no air specials, has to duck or block every projectile thrown at them, and their only advancing attack is a duckable high, it completely changes how I have to think about the game. But in those stressful situations, I keep defaulting to the playstyle of my main even if the tools of new character don't lend themself to that at all. The differences in what options my character has and what I am fundamentally trying to achieve from moment to moment (do I want to be close? Do I want to be far? Do I value oki over corner carry or vice versa? Does this character benefit more from cashing out damage or screen positioning? Can I throw loop? etc) changes how I view every single match up, it can feel like a whole different game if the options for new character don't have strong parallels to my main. I know for a lot of people, that's the fun part. The fact that every character can feel like a whole new game within this bigger game. I used to be like that, I used to really enjoy playing the whole roster and learning them all (at least up to a casual level), and honestly I don't know what changed. Now though, once I've found a comfort pick it feels really unappealing to peel myself away from them and commit myself to getting beat up over and over and over again to maybe possibly potentially one day down the line learn a new character half as well as I know my main, and learning their unique gameplay style that is nothing at all like what I have been practicing this entire time. I know that having other characters could potentially give me other options to make some match ups easier, but at this point I'd rather just double down on my main and trying to figure out the match ups giving me trouble. Because at least I have a base understanding of what my main character is about. I'd like to change this mindset, though I know the answer is just "Bro just don't care about losing and keep gitting gud lol."

[@terrysalt]

I can relate to this. Once you've reached a level of competence it can be very hard to go back to feeling like a newbie all over again. That said, if you do stick it out a lot of the skills you learn with your new character will help with your main as well. Sure your main has a dive kick but now you know how to play without one so you're less reliant on it and can have more versatility in how you play. It's a lot of work so I understand not wanting to do it but the benefits are there if you stick it out. :)

[@zen7ry]

Changing mindsets is hard. However you can dodge this issue occasionally by just playing games when they're brand new.

[@georgesears934]

@@terrysalt Thanks for the encouragement. Currently, my strategy for learning new characters involves branching out into a character that functions similarly to my main, and then into a character more similar to the second character than my main, and (in theory) so on and so forth until I learn someone who is not similar to the original character at all. This process of course takes a ludicrous amount of time and can leave me playing the same problem match ups but worse (since I'm using characters similar to my main meaning they will likely struggle with similar things, but now I'm just worse at the character)

[@georgesears934]

@@zen7ry That is one of the reasons why I've been strongly considering getting KoF 15, despite not really liking the artstyle that much and not really caring about the roster or the history or the lore, (in fact the only SNK series I care about is Metal Slug which I'm quite a fanatic for), but just because it's new and based on what I've seen it will be a lot of peoples' first KoF games, so I might be able to slip in and fight some newbs before they all abandon ship and only the ancient ones are left to pummel me to dust. That, and the fact that I still don't know if the next NRS will be MK-12, Injustice 3, or Rumored Marvel game, because if it's Injustice 3 I don't give a shit but if it's MK-12 or RMG I am throwing my credit card at that shit like a goddamned shuriken.

[@Ironpecker]

Great stuff sajam, I also really reccomend to divide learning each character in sections, and focus on each section one at a time, after I've done a quick overview of the character. Taking the example by sajam the sections can be: how do you move? Where does your character wanna sit on the screen? What are great neutral tools/pokes? What is their win condition? What are their defensive tools and so on and so forth. Once you figure out two or three sections, try some stuff in training mode and then just jump into it, and during each match when learning the character try focusing on doing one of the sections decently, also if I can manage to do it properly I feel bad even though I may lose, because I know progress is being made

[@thisistherun4015]

Just when I thought this topic was done to death, you explained it in a fresh new way. Very cool!

[@amon8088]

Thanks for the vids and streams. Times are rough right now and they help getting my mind of things

[@Glandulf19]

I think I remember Brian_F making a similar analogy between music and FGC, and as a music teacher, I cannot agree more with you guys. The advices are the same : - SLOW DOWN. Don't try to learn all the super sweaty stuff right from the beginning, just go for the basics and try to land them 11/10 times - USE RECORDINGS. Record yourself so you can see/hear where your weaknesses are, you won't be able to notice them as you play, otherwise you won't be playing as good as you can because you'll be focusing too much on trying to notice them. - WORK CONSCIOUSLY ON YOUR WEAKNESSES. You might be tempted to play and only apply what you're already good at, or what is easy for you to learn, but you'll improve only if you take your weaknesses one by one and try focusing solely on them (i.e. I keep getting A.Aired over and over, let's focus on varying my air approaches and learning new ones/ I keep using the wrong finger to play this note, let's try and play these 2 bars a few times until I naturally use the right one) - HAVE FUN. Because if you only try to improve and never take the time to enjoy what you're playing, there will soon be diminishing returns and you'll start to lose interest in this instrument/song/game/character. Thanks for your input (and everything you do), I improved so much at fighting games thanks to your content and sound advices !

[@aruretheincomprehensible20]

This probably doesn't apply particularly well into traditional fighting games, but whenever I've tried to learn a character in a platform fighter I usually start by jumping in and boxing as hard as possible. I'll usually have some idea of what the character does from playing against said character and/or playing other similar characters so I'll usually have some idea of how to play neutral, I'll frequently get myself into bad situations so I learn how to play in disadvantage, and when I get a hit I aggressively look for followups, giving me some amount of knowledge on combos. After the first couple games I'll probably have a good number of ideas on what to do and what not to do, and it makes the learning process more bearable. It works really well for most playstyles, but if the character is a zoner with 1-2 projectiles then it's really hard to actually make this strategy work. This happened when I tried Mollo in Rivals of Aether, where I was trying to box when his kit is built around zoning with bombs. Thankfully, Rivals of Aether has a lot of zoners that can legitimately box, either through good mobility or good damage, so I wasn't too lost, but give me a zoner in Smash or Slap City and I'd probably be a little lost with this strategy. With traditional fighting games, it's a mixed bag. There are more buttons, so it's much harder to find the move you need unless the move you're looking for is on a universal input (like how many games have a universal anti-air by pressing forward + your weakest attack button), and the combos are a bit harder due to a more refined combo system so it's harder to find half-decent combos from just playing the game. That said, the stuff that makes picking up a new character harder in traditional fighting games is part of what makes them great, so these mechanics aren't necessarily bad.

[@KuroShiiiiro]

learning chars like musical instruments is a great analogy. that makes perfect sense. the issue is ive only played fg's comp since Smash Ult came out 😂 im just now getting better ab learning 2d fighters nonetheless other chars in the games

[@JagerXIII]

Watching videos really helps, like, i mainly use mishimas in t7, but then I wanted to learn non mishimas in case my execution wasn’t on point, so I watches mr naps, jdcr and knee and looked at how they played certain characters. It gave me a rough idea of what buttons are good and what the general game plan is, after that, I just fill in the gaps.

[@cptstickmangaming183]

That shirt change though

[@Sorrelhas]

When learning a new game I'll usually cheat and just play the character the streamer I like is playing, so we can "learn together". (Max with Ranger and Sajam with Nine were the exceptions)

[@MakotoCamellia]

Dang, I wish that was me on the instrument analogy. I've definitely become faster over the many years, but I'm aways really slow to build muscle memory with these crummy fingers of mine. lol All the same, nothing to it but to put the time in until you can perform in a natural state.

[@xarezarcs4125]

For the youtube age restriction it might be the title that set it off with both unethical and kill in the title.

[@user-wl1hv3uh6i]

Thx Sajam I needed this

[@kinginthenorth1437]

Bold of you to assume I've learned more than one song on guitar in the 20 years I've been playing.

[@calebolds9609]

This was the analogy I really needed

[@conanbdetective]

that end bit though

[@lukadahusky4005]

Well that makes sense. I suck at learning instruments and I suck at learning new fighters too XD

[@fluffykitten077]

Yeah children shouldn't be gambling. You don't want a 12 year old crying to his mom that Sajam stole all his channel points that he was farming for a whole month.

[@yano4473]

so new it's not in the videos tab

[@9clawtiger]

Meanwhile I cant read sheet music.

[@omarortega537]

Unless the character has some crazy mechanics then I'll take a very long time to learn or even try that character

[@granddaddy_funk]

That angle of tatami in the air is kinda wack. I get hit out of it alot

[@goose5288]

good timing

[@RainbowLizardOne]

why did he change shirts halfway through

[@gregoryolenovich6440]

Why would you air tatami when you have j.s

[@Idontevenwanachannel]

I'm not good by any means, but from what I can see it provides disjointed pressure that leaves you plus on block similar to millia's top.

[@Exiacalibur]

Sajam got hit with that age restriction for being too guapo

[@ggpt9641]

Watch the good players at the char, and learn from the lab monsters.

[@LightWeaver_Cyph]

Bro trying to learn a second character in strive is so hard for me. Every character is too damn different lol (which is a good thing)

[@acedefective1491]

Lmao I know how that feels. I went from a fuck ton of hours on axl to zato=1 who I've tried before but barely know how to play him

[@mikecampau438]

I have a hard time not making fighting game analogies to people who dont play them

[@apinkdslite1833]

HOW DO HIS SHIRT CHANGE????

[@SlickRick4EVER]

Magic

[@hiitztroll1548]

Dude changed shirts mid video

[@carlosvergara4132]

Change the name to "Will it KO?"

[@peteryang8189]

🎮

[@boislap]

and then you play kazoo and you straight up DP into celestial jk

[@TheSoriYamato]

I'm here early the hell?

[@MunkFano1]

Damn, Sajam aged 10 years within 1 year. Entertaining twitch kids took a toll on him...

[@FGCbaronkorvo]

Sajam just invented and coined the phrase "Stick-to-it-iveness"

[@NickJJU]

He absolutely did not, people have been saying this for decades

[@just_ahuman1501]

Damn, If this video wasn't about strive it would have been alot longer ..maybe 15-17 minutes Strive is very basic and quick

[@rumpatumpboobadoop3728]

moste what song is in the thumbnail