Against the Odds: Demonic Pact (Pioneer, Magic Online)

[@MTGGoldfish]

You can vote for next week's Throne of Eldraine Standard 3.0 Against the Odds deck here: www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/against-the-odds-demonic-pact-pioneer-magic-online

[@christopherrue1773]

You mentioned needle takes care of reclamation...it does not... reclamation is a triggered ability....

[@jimmybuffettsr1157]

Gideon protecting you from your demonic pact is such a lore win.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Nothing like a good flavor win :)

[@phoebesnow7142]

Lore win? noooo dont you mean Amonkhet and Origins? :P

[@jimmybuffettsr1157]

@@phoebesnow7142 That was a pretty good one, it made me shake my head.

[@Zologe]

You know what's also a good flavor win? Between Origins and Eldritch Moon, there are 3 sets (BFZ, OTG and SoI), and there are 3 good modes on Demonic Pact. The 4th is the bad one, and harmless offering was released in Eldritch Moon. Soooooo... coincidence?

[@triopsate3]

Gideon doesn't end up dusting himself after protecting you though.

[@arthurkeech]

"I expect a thank you in the chat". That was awesome

[@MTGTavern]

Twas me on the UB improvise deck. I was streaming it at the time and we had literally just brewed the deck so it needed alot of work still. For what its worth you may remember me as the guy who made mono red Living End (from your Fall of the Thran Against The Odds last year). The deck plays all the good improvise cards plus metalwork colossus, and Tezzeret Planeswalkers. as pay offs. However from testing it turned out Anitquities War. which was only a 2 of in this match, was by far the best pay off. Anyway, GG's twas a fun and VERY weird matchup.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Antiquities War was by far the card I was most scared of in the matchup. If I can't Thoughtseize it it's pretty hard for me to beat unless I have Nahiri or sideboard Anguished Unmaking. Deck looks sweet!

[@chriswest9871]

I saw the username and I was like "Oh hey it's the pimp fiend guy." You're the reason I know every living end variant that my friends are confused by. So that's cool.

[@germanyjones2700]

Kinda poetic that it’s Gideon(‘s emblem) who takes it on the chin when the deal with the devil goes south

[@MTGGoldfish]

Gideon's just that kind of guy.

[@ashnodsbestfriend3627]

Why is this deck not called Harmless Pact?

[@pauperjaymtg2920]

...pact offering even.

[@JohnDoe-sw1sm]

because Cat Pact rhymes

[@pietroboni2553]

Demonic cat still best name

[@MTGGoldfish]

Traditionally it's called Cat Pact.

[@ashnodsbestfriend3627]

@@MTGGoldfish If it had gone 0-5, would you change the name to reflect it's danger level?

[@pldl10]

I think discard 2 is a lot better than draw 2 "looking for thoughtseize" when you are already discarding them to 2 with the first demonic pact.

[@pauperjaymtg2920]

Honestly so freaking gooood

[@RobWirdWachsen]

yeah that was a punt

[@MTGGoldfish]

Most of my punts come from my love of drawing cards.

[@dannygeorge9131]

New Life goal: Play Catpact in a GP and win a match saying "I expect a [thank you]"

[@grim3646]

Don't give people ideas... now everyone is going to demand a thanks

[@kylebigos2756]

Make a manners deck. Add didn't say please theres got to be tons of other flavor text cards to finish it out

[@rexone9564]

Kyle Bigos I really want a counterspell called ‘nope’

[@zackattackk2]

@@rexone9564 I want one called Stop That and it can only be used on a card if a card with the same name is already in the opponent's graveyard or exile

[@rexone9564]

zackattackk2 for U.

[@nicklittle8399]

53:55 "Glory brought" You crack me up Seth haha

[@2236UmbrellaCorp]

Content has always been my favorite... best add ons last couple years: beard cam, fishbowl thu, and adding mon stream.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Thanks :)

[@ruudvanlaarhoven5776]

Instead of Dark Petition for Nahiri to exile one of two Fevered Visions, you could have searched for Gideon and emblem, to not die to them

[@Atmapalazzo]

"How does Fires Friends plan on casting their spells" It's in the name Seth :V

[@jjohansen86]

When he said that he hadn't even seen a Fires of Invention, so I don't think it was so clear at that point.

[@Frommerman]

@@jjohansen86 he'd thoughtseized one.

[@aaronnava5656]

I dunno if he knew there but he figured it out eventually. He was joking on the podcast this week about people he's seen playing Fires with no way to cast their spells, I think he was referring to this

[@zackattackk2]

@@jjohansen86 Interplanar beacons help too

[@computersocsci]

21:08 I love how this evil black deck brings out the sass from Seth!

[@JohnnyDeLeo1]

Damn Seth! “I expect a thank you in the chat” was savage! I will hopefully never be on your bad side! I don’t think I could take a roast like that!

[@MTGGoldfish]

:)

[@Demosthenes6666]

I LOLed when you missed what the UB Fevered Visions player was on, because that deck was almost a straight port of the old KLD standard Izzet Visions deck that sort of flew under the radar. Same Fevered Visions plan, just updated with counterspells that it didn't originally have access to. You set up a howling mine effect, discard scaabs, reanimate them at instant speed, and eventually start chaining Elder Deep-Fiends together with your skaabs as permanent fuel.

[@theishik]

*Secretly hoping this deck slaps, so my 80 foil Harmless Offerings bring papi a return*

[@MTGGoldfish]

I wouldn't get your hopes up (even though the deck is sweet!)

[@owenbartels9333]

Not sure if it was ever worth doing, but you can play around assasin's trophy by early offering the pact.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Hmm, that's a good point.

[@rat488]

This might be one of my favorite decks for a long time!

[@skylerhornagold4849]

Dude yes yes YES! Super sweet. Great content Seth

[@MTGGoldfish]

Thanks!

[@deathpyre42]

Should that build at 21:58 include a metalwork colossus?

[@MTGTavern]

It was me playing this- it did. Unfortunately I didnt draw a single one in the match :(

[@deathpyre42]

@@MTGTavern delicious, cool. Does it also include ensoul artifacts?

[@MTGTavern]

@@deathpyre42 it does not. If it did then would just be a really bad Izzet ensoul artifact deck. Also its toughtrying to balance artifact density + payoffs for improvise cards. For every non artifact spell in the deck every improvise card gets a little worse...

[@dweebyphoebe3033]

Why is it called Fires Friends when clearly it should be named Friendly Fire

[@andrewmarinkovich8657]

Fun! I would have liked to have seen any comments to you from your opponents when you gifted them the Demonic Pacts. LOL

[@MTGGoldfish]

Sadly our opponent's were quiet :(

[@Borkybaby]

I love you so much for playing this :) loved playing this with blue. :) I like keeping my pact :) too much value.

[@chemset475]

OMG Fevered Visions. Please play a Fevered Visions deck Seth!!! My fav

[@auron92]

This is the coolest pioneer deck that I have seen

[@juliancurry6489]

Wow. Niiicee...i gotta try this in an esper dance of the manse. Doom foretold just doesnt seem to be that bad with pact. Also that manse play with a bunch of pacts and doom foretolds just seems soooo juicy!

[@DiogoVKersting]

The last two decks were surprisingly powerful for against the odds decks. The standard version of those against the odds felt like a struggle, but the pioneer version feel like legitimate decks. Here are the other versions, for anyone interested: www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/against-the-odds-hedron-alignment www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/against-the-odds-blood-pact-modern www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/against-the-odds-harmless-pact-standard

[@MTGGoldfish]

I think the bigger card pool really helps.

[@crovax1375]

The Elderspell would be a good card in the sideboard to answer all of this planeswalkers in the meta

[@pauperjaymtg2920]

The card is bad. It seems cool but usually is dead.

[@crovax1375]

@@pauperjaymtg2920 it's not bad against the super friends match up

[@pauperjaymtg2920]

@@crovax1375 superfriends isnt a competitive deck.

[@anevilmurk4186]

Already running dread bore, murderous riders anguished unmaking and pithing needles, no need to run elderspell when it is so narrow.

[@silverdeathgamer2907]

@@pauperjaymtg2920 Aren't the fires decks pretty much superfriends?

[@mrquastenegger6366]

So, how does the interaction between Demonic Pact and Gideon's Emblem work exactly? I have the Emblem and a Gideon and in my upkeep I choose the "you loose the game" option, but I don't loose. But what happens, when the opponent destroys Gideon on his next turn? Do I loose the game then, or was 'loosing the game" a one time effect that got prevented?

[@dudacalvin]

The Dark Petition performance was amazing in this deck, maybe the card could be more explored in Pioneer

[@theyonlycomeoutwhenitsquiet]

Seriously enjoying seeing pioneer versions of these decks. Not playing Tron is wonderful.

[@FlawlessRhythmGG]

I think this is the first time I've actually had all the cards from one of the decks. Gonna sleeve this up and troll my lgs on friday!

[@StahliCell]

Oh boy I remember un-packing a harmless offering and have been thinking about a deck for years to work with that... I was thinking of filling it up with downside creatures (like demons that make you lose life or something) but with demonic pact it seems way way better!! Good idea

[@MTGGoldfish]

Yeah! Demonic Pact is one of the best instant-win cards with Harmless Offering. Plus you get to get the good triggers out of it before giving it away.

[@StahliCell]

@@MTGGoldfish Love those against the odds videos, they always give me ideas to be called the worst MTG player by all my friends :D

[@nicklittle8399]

Curious question here, why Sign In Blood over Night's Whisper? I feel like the easier mana cost outweighs the option of targeting your opponent.

[@LegoSauce]

is that card legal? was thinking about it too

[@MindstabThrull]

Night's Whisper isn't legal in Pioneer. Its only "normal" printing was all the way back in Fifth Dawn; Masters sets don't count toward set legality. Basically you want to ask whether it's in a set that has been legal in Standard and that set is RTR or newer. Night's Whisper fails there.

[@nicklittle8399]

@@MindstabThrull Ah my bad my bad, forgot what version this was.

[@MindstabThrull]

@@nicklittle8399 All good. Inicidentally, in my Pauper Monoblack Burn deck, I prefer Sign in Blood over Night's Whisper because it can actually be used to push through the last couple points of damage if necessary - a hidden mode for Sign in Blood over Night's Whisper!

[@MTGGoldfish]

Night's Whisper isn't in Pioneer unfortunately.

[@joserene-t5z]

Seth, do you see yourself upgrading this deck with cards from Theros Beyond Death

[@MTGGoldfish]

Maybe, it will depend on what cards are in Theros: Beyond Death :)

[@edya505]

Why don't you play leagues with the decks?

[@bennymarty6972]

Final Payment fits well in this list too 👍 Coming from someone who already brewed around Pact.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Hmm, I might have to add a copy. A removal spell that can also sac Pact seems nice.

[@martyb1667]

Nice one. That deck make me want to play pioneer now.

[@MTGGoldfish]

It was a fun one!

[@Stayner]

Esper with red Splash for the ofering would not be better? You can have better card draw, and teferi.

[@MindstabThrull]

Fun deck! Thinking about adding blue in order to add Teferi, Time Raveler in order to also deal with Demonic Pact (use it three times, bounce it and replay it). Thoughts?

[@MTGGoldfish]

Esper Pact was one of the lists I built, but I decided against it because people don't like Teferi (and bouncing Pact with Teferi is less exciting than giving it to opponents). I do think Teferi is good with Pact though.

[@TheSailorKing]

what is the point of L. void if you don't mulligan for it

[@faceoctopus4571]

39:38 why not dark petition into kill spell?

[@MTGGoldfish]

We just didn't have a way to deal with the recursion. We could have gotten a sweeper, but the creatures would keep coming back and we didn't have a way to deal with them.

[@faceoctopus4571]

@@MTGGoldfish Are you sure OP would be able to trigger the recursion? From what I could tell, there is a chance (s)he could whiff'd long enough for you to win.

[@wesleyperry3193]

Love it Seth! Nice work 😎

[@MineRoyale.]

White doesn't seem good in this deck. Why not go grixis for good card draw and counter protection?

[@blueeyedenvy9715]

Seeeeeeeeth this deck is amaziiiing please stream it!! I just wanna see you play it mooooooooore

[@MTGGoldfish]

I'm down for playing more of it at some point.

[@blueeyedenvy9715]

Best news ever

[@thecollectiblecollectabill2298]

im only able to play 4 player Pioneer games. is there a better card than thoughtsieze for a multiplayer game?

[@melissagrenier2200]

Needs fires in the sideboard so you can build your own 3feri passive.

[@melissagrenier2200]

And by needs I mean for the memes. I know it's too convoluted and a bad idea.

[@IslandLimer]

Maybe this deck could work with offering as part of a wish board?

[@starrycat6185]

Seth when he draws a demonic pact and harmless offering: oh yeah it’s all coming together

[@Commanderkittenface]

Why radiant flames over anger of the gods? no budget concerns and there's only two creatures in the deck

[@MTGGoldfish]

Easier to cast. Hitting double red on turn three isn't always easy, since we're only playing 14 duals to go with Fabled Passage and basics.

[@hankhill5616]

Woah, that Sign in Blood full art looks sick! Is that an MTGO exclusive?

[@ayrexen7506]

No, It's like 5 bucks, from the player rewards program

[@NicoJansevanRensburg]

Are you guys done playing modern?

[@grim3646]

About time for the cats to find a home!!! Who woulda thought that demonic pact would end up becoming viable let alone competitive!

[@scottmwyman]

It went 13-1-1 at a gp in 2016....i remember cause i got a playset of harmless offering....still trying to finish that deck lol

[@MTGGoldfish]

Yep. That was one of my favorite GP's of all time. Chris came out of nowhere with a deck no one was playing (Cat Pact) and crushed with it.

[@grim3646]

@@MTGGoldfish oh wow, never knew someone actually played it competitively the time it was in standard... dude's a mad lad for pulling a deck such as that in a GP and actually winning

[@Beefman.0]

Was waiting for this deck! Also, do you think Demonic Pact would see any play if it didn’t have the downside?

[@ironocy496]

Possibly, wouldn't it be just like a saga at that point?

[@Beefman.0]

I havent really thought of it like that, but it is a lot like a saga. A better saga, that is

[@anevilmurk4186]

I was in the process of building this deck, and am a little salty that this is prob better than how mine was gonna turn out.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Keep going! There's room for plenty of Pact decks in Pioneer :)

[@anevilmurk4186]

@@MTGGoldfish Got me there :)

[@Zeac]

Awh yes thankn you for this video been waiting to see it since pioneers announcement

[@MTGGoldfish]

Glad you liked it! The deck ended up pretty sweet I think.

[@OsseusChicago]

Wow, early indeed. Deck looks sweet

[@robspear03]

No. O it doesnt.

[@restoreleader]

isnt day of judgement or wrath of god better than kayas wrath?

[@myztik5716]

This is Pioneer. Those cards aren't legal.

[@BinaryClock]

consider: Karn, the Great Creator over 1 copy of Ob Nixilis in the sideboard for the affinity matchup? Demonic Petition means you have an extra playset of any SB card you need, there is a benefit to diversifying your silver bullets. Usually an enchantment like Stony Silence would be better than KarnTGC, but since your win condition is an enchantment, having your interaction not be an enchantment is actually good!

[@MTGGoldfish]

Hmm, Karn as a Stone Silence sounds sweet. I might have to try a copy.

[@guardbreak4034]

That thumbnail pic doe 😍

[@shorty1815]

Why no RIP in the sideboard?

[@giacomobaccilieri8413]

RIP turns off spell mastery for Dark Petition

[@MTGGoldfish]

Leyline of the Void is basically a Rest in Peace that doesn't turn off spell mastery on Dark Petition (and is even free sometimes!)

[@Humstuck]

At 20:20 I was almost expecting dsphere. I would have lost my marble if that had happened.

[@Jormungadr]

Can you willbender demonic pact

[@Vorasii]

Doom foretold would be interesting

[@MTGGoldfish]

I considered it, but it seemed like it would force us to sacrifice Pact too often before we wanted to. I think in some sort of Starfield of Nyx style deck Pact and Doom Foretold could be really good together.

[@fanhoop187]

Title should say Demonic Pack!!!!!

[@francescogulisano2917]

The best cat combo deck

[@MTGGoldfish]

Lol, best and only now, at least in Pioneer.

[@CanadianPianoMan]

last time I was this early my comment got turned into a 3/3 elk

[@crovax1375]

Oko's banned now. He can't make you lose all of your abilities anymore

[@Omnicrom]

That's the joke.

[@winstonsassman2122]

isn't radiant flames just a worse deafening clarion in most red white decks? it isn't irrelevant, you can give chad lifelink.

[@giacomobaccilieri8413]

He only plays murderous knight and he already has lifelink

[@MTGGoldfish]

Yeah, I guess that's true. The main upside of Radiant Flames is its easy to cast, but Deafening Clarion might be correct. I think Anger of the Gods and Sweltering Suns are too hard to cast thanks to double red, but Deafning Clarion might be fine.

[@НиколайБолдырев-ш3ч]

Realy fun deck!!!

[@MTGGoldfish]

Glad you liked it!

[@PresidentofAntifa]

No flickerwisp?!

[@mattwakeford9060]

I really wish more people voted for The Great Aurora or Indomitable Creativity.. Now that would be entertaining!

[@MTGGoldfish]

I've still been working on The Great Aurora, I think you'll be seeing it soon, although it is bugged on MTGO, which makes it less powerful than it should be.

[@mattwakeford9060]

@@MTGGoldfish I can't wait to see that video! Hopefully they fix the bug before you make the video!

[@cedricwestcott1852]

16:11 damn that opponent made some bad decisions smh

Sometimes I like to give decks little narratives. You know, take the characters and spells and make them into a story... This one is: Liliana (as we know) signs the demonic pact. In her revelings on Innistrad, she noticed an oversight in her pact. She was soon doomed if she did not slay the 4 demons the pact was signed to. She sought the help of Gideon Jura, who could keep her alive with his healing magic. Before the pact was to take Lili's life, Gideon spotted a non-assuming kitten - "Liliana, I have a weird plan." They found a way to graft the pact onto the poor kitty, and handed it over to the demons. "No takesies backsies, demon bois!"

[@SilverAlex92]

Actually I think a more accurate description is lily "offering" the pack to gideon in war of the spark

[@Wretcheded1]

Has everyone forgot about torment of hailfire

[@Wretcheded1]

so good with gary and nykthos

[@MrTandtrollet]

Mardu Cat Pact - I want it...

[@terrynagle7410]

I WISH Pioneer was on Arena

[@ComedyinHD]

It's not a cat. Turns out it's a Flerken.

[@stanleyburke01]

5:31

[@stronggreenflame]

should have sided out the urborg in game one

[@kartoffelnpommesgut]

Trixx. Pioneer trixx.

[@letsgobrandon6992]

Technically if a card says you win the game then you shouldnt have to go to round 2 or 3 because those are rounds. The card should say you win the round lol

[@TheRealWormbo]

A game is a single game of magic from start to the point where at most one player/team is left. The first-to-2 sequence of games is called a match, and "round" is typically used as a term for the stages of a tournament, where one round = one match from a player's perspective.

[@letsgobrandon6992]

@@TheRealWormbo chill it's a play on words plus it would be super dumb but hilarious if a card effected games outside of the current game.

[@lanaalways]

Cat pact cat pact we in here for the cat pact

[@Smorehead13]

Yaaaaaaaas

[@davidvonjohnston]

This deck is sweet like fudge! Yall Fudge Pacting!

[@RyanMclain]

*half wry grin/half disproving frown Cute(ish) Potential. Had to reach for that one. might have something with work. prob not worth the effort. extra points & deductions. 5.5/10

[@cross25011990]

im missing this crispy modern decks from you goldfish. pioneer sucks :/

[@ToxicallyMasculinelol]

insurance fraud: the deck

[@ToxicallyMasculinelol]

what happens if both your harmless offerings get countered or milled though? maybe this is my neurosis talking and it would make the deck worse but if i was playing this i'd probably have a slot for mastermind's acquisition so i can get a graveyard shuffle spell out of the sideboard

[@ToxicallyMasculinelol]

fyi your opponent saccing their creature on the oath of kaya trigger does not fizzle the life gain. it's an enchantment. the life gain is a triggered ability on entering battlefield. the spell has already resolved and ETB by the time the life gain goes on the stack. so if they sacrifice the targeted creature it stops the damage but it doesn't stop the life gain. it's not like the spell says "deal 3 damage and you gain life equal to the damage dealt this way" or something. it just says deal 3 damage and gain 3 life. so really not killing the neonate was a pretty big misplay since no matter how the game develops from there you're very likely to lose a lot of hp to that neonate, and damaging your opponent is pretty much never relevant

[@MTGGoldfish]

Hmm, good call on Oath of Kaya. I was thinking of it like Lightning Helix, but I think your right. If Harmless Offering gets killed we just win normally (with Gideon/Nahiri to keep us from dying to our Pacts). All four Pacts adds up to 16 damage, so we only need one Gideon attack to win.

[@TheRealWormbo]

@@ToxicallyMasculinelol The ETB trigger only has one target (the thing being damaged), so if that target becomes invalid, the ability won't resolve. That's exactly the same as for any other spell or ability with targets. Yes, the enchantment already resolved, but the life gain is tied to the ETB trigger resolving.

[@myztik5716]

@@ToxicallyMasculinelol 5/3/2019 If the target is an illegal target by the time the first ability of Oath of Kaya tries to resolve, the ability doesn’t resolve. You won’t gain 3 life. FYI your reasoning only makes sense if 'You gain 3 life' was in a separate sentence. Since it's all one sentence, if you counter one part of it (by no longer having a creature being targeted) you counter all of it

[@ODIRGO]

so, your against the odds decks are much more likely to win than your much abrew decks lately.

[@roberty7999]

i thought oko was banned

[@chuckstevens4985]

NO BIRD this is pioneer

[@RyanMclain]

each format has its own banned list

[@roberty7999]

@@RyanMclain thx

[@MTGGoldfish]

He's oko-ay in Pioneer still.

[@RyanMclain]

@@MTGGoldfish boo! Seth, wtf? That's horrible. youre not tomer. ugh

[@jancukasu]

MIAAAWWW 💕🐱

[@milo8425]

lol

[@swizzlatheone4081]

wtf are you talking about?

[@robspear03]

This deck is trash.

[@Omnicrom]

That's the point.