Age of Mythology Deathless, Chapter 3: Scratching the Surface

[@garymorgy4036]

Dang that was quick! I've never thought to attack the docks by sea for some reason, so this mission almost always takes me a bit to complete. Looking forward to more!

[@Melth]

Thanks, I hope you enjoy the series!

[@Elfis99]

For the shift-queue, you have to activate the command first, then hold shift, then click the targets. There are a couple of commands that can be done with right click, such as move and (hold alt and right click to) attack move. These can be done just like Starcraft and other RTS games, you just hold shift and go crazy. But if you want to add most commands into the series, you have to release shift, hit its key combination, and then press shift again and click destinations.

[@Melth]

So let's say I wanted to move to a location, kill a target, and then build something. Is it correct that I'd need to go 1) start holding shift 2) right click the area to move 3) right click the target to attack 4) release shift 5) click the building hotkey 6) hold shift again 7) click the building location 8) release shift again?

[@Elfis99]

@@Melth I believe that would work, and that you could also use the regular commands, but that would require : move hotkey click attack key hold shift click release shift building key hold shift click release shift I really haven't played it that much. I'm pretty sure that's how it worked, but it might forget its queue every time you use a different command regardless; you'll probably figure out its exact limitations before I get back to it heh. I only remember for sure that you can hold shift and queue up multiple right click commands like moves or repairs, and you can build multiple buildings by using the building key, then hold shift while placing them.

[@Melth]

@@Elfis99 that seems like a frustrating and unnecessarily complex way for it to work!

[@Me1Internetuser]

Actually, in retold, it doesn't matter who you go through in heroic, you get water myth units through either major god.

[@Melth]

Yeah, I learned that after making this video. Dionysus is definitely still the best pick though for this strategy to get Chthonic Rites

[@Fingolfin_the_Warden]

Now every major god gets a water myth unit in both heroic and mythic which is much more balanced! the only god-specific water MUs now are the hippocampus from Poseidon and the Servant from Oceanus which are nice to have but don't really impact balance too much lol

[@tomato3456]

Very nicely done. Really curious to see if you'll be able to continue the deathless run into Mission 4, though. That one seems like a nightmare with all the different ways you can get attacked.

[@Melth]

@@tomato3456 it absolutely IS a nightmare, but I already finished it. I'm working on mission 5, which is also a nightmare, when I get back from a trip

[@tomato3456]

@@Melth The absolute madman

[@rbunk_3]

I would love to see you play WC3. Challenge style or not. Love that game as well.

[@Melth]

@@rbunk_3 it's an amazing game! I do have a few videos for it already, but I never figured out a satisfactory balance between thoroughly exploring all the many time-consuming secrets in the campaign vs making reasonably short challenge run videos. Thus I never did a full run

[@cont1nuous505]

@@Melthyou can do challenge runs like destroying unreal enemies bases, killing Archimonde, Cenarius without plot tools and etc

[@BeartatoTime]

What do you mean when you say "Nothing happens in the Iliad?" A great part of Greek mythology occurs outside of Homer's works of course, but the idea that the Iliad is superfluous in anyway is absurd.

[@Melth]

No, I stand by that. The Iliad is superfluous even to the story of the Trojan War in particular. Nothing important happens in it. Nearly the entire thing is repetitive and pointless and tedious passages where some C-list Greek or Trojan goes on a rampage and kills 50 unimportant enemies, only for some guy on the opposite side to immediately do the same thing. None of the plot events that seem like they COULD actually matter, like multiple repetitive times the Greeks consider leaving, actually do matter. No important characters die, no plot events happen, and there isn't even any character development because pretty much everyone is a flat character with at most one personality trait and no arc. Some people will say that the major event is Hector dying, but Hector is of at best mild importance as one of a hundred warrior sons of Priam and Hecuba, several of whom are better than him. And he's already been tied or defeated several times by that point! Neither Achilles quitting nor Achilles returning actually has any effect on the war. It had already been going for 9 pointless years before the Iliad despite Achilles fighting, it continues in the same pointless way while he is sulking, and his return is meaningless too because all he does is go on another repetitive rampage that changes nothing just like the 200 almost identical passages of other heroes doing the same thing. And then it just ends without the fall of Troy, without the death of Achilles (which also doesn't matter in any way because the Greeks win just fine without him), without anything happening. You could read the pre-Iliad epics in the cycle, skip the Iliad, then read the post-Iliad epics and miss nothing

[@BeartatoTime]

@@Melth I absolutely disagree. The Iliad is repetitive, but it's done to a point. C-list Greeks and Trojans don't go on 50 man murder sprees, they enter into duels with their opponents. Each duel follows a specific structure (obviously spitballing): Batracus came from the city of of Horsetou. His father was a sheep herder and owned several hundred of the finest of the species. He said one day all of this will be yours. Batracus was sent to fight for the Trojans dreaming of those sheep and the life he once had when he stood facing Dolrigad. Dolrigad sliced Batracus' neck, his brains spurted out of the back of his helmet. His father died alone in Horsetou and the sheep withdrew to the wild with no one to care for them where they were eaten by lions. The structure is repeated time and time again, but every single time it reinforces that these aren't just mooks to be slaughtered like it's an action movie (thanks Brad Pitt), but that these are human beings who lived full lives. The only person to go on a murdering spree was Achilles after the death of Patroclus, and it's portrayed as this unnatural thing. This section where you've spent chapters upon chapters reading about war written in this specific stanza, only for Achilles to disregard all of that in his inhumane, and inhuman violence against the Trojans and the Gods. The story ends without any of the things you described occurring because they were already widely known in Ancient Greek society as they are in todays society. What the Iliad does is looks beyond that, and looks at the human beings involved in these stories that we already know, and I think it does a great job of that. You say that Hector isn't an important figure because he's not an important figure in the Trojan royal family. That's absurd, he's important because he's one of the many humanising faces of the enemy. One forced into conflict because of his duty to state, duty to family and the love of his father. His fictional position doesn't matter one iota. You can just read Ancient Greek mythology and have a good time, but you'd be a fool not to read the Iliad. It provides a level of connection with the people who lived 3000 years ago via a shared medium, that of theater and literature.

[@le_nub6711]

holding shift+right-clicking for sequence creating not working? edit: mythic naval units (exept servants) are not tied to specific gods anymore, only age+pathenon, their upgrades, however still are. for example: once age 3, hades player also can build scyllas, but have still no way to access hydras or their autoheal tech

[@jakobandersen3210]

Do you have a favourite version/translation of the Iliad

[@Melth]

Not really for the Iliad. I like Fagles's Odyssey translation, but I've always hated the Iliad regardless of translator

[@TYR1139]

Wait, lure is a dropping point?... Man I didn't notice Agamenon is as pointless here as he was in the source material. It's inspiration is probably more interesting but I'm not well versed in the even older greek stuff, at best whatever AC: Odyssey told me. This mission overall it's just easy thanks to water and now that you said it, yeah, not much for heroes in the sea huh.

[@TARDISES]

The Argo has *slightly* more avaliability in Retold compared to vanilla/Titans/EE. It was originally exclusive to Poseidon and Mythic Age only, whereas now it's tied to a new Aphrodite tech (so Heroic Age and Hades players can get access to it too). No hero ships for Zeus or the other three civs in skirmishes though.

[@BeartatoTime]

I would strongly recommend reading the Iliad if you're keen on learning Greek Mythology. Homeric literature is still some rip roaring good reads 3 millennia later and I assure you, Agamemnon is not pointless. I find his characterization to be immensely relatable in the 21st century.

[@Melth]

Yeah, I just learned that Lure is now a drop point on the previous video! Not sure what I think of that, it seems kind of weird and sort of cancels out one strategy aspect that existed before where you could try to lure animals PAST your granary and then shoot them as they walked next to it.

[@Melth]

I'd call that roughly equal availability I think. Instead of being available to 100% of Poseidon players, now it is 50% of Poseidon players and 50% of Hades ones (roughly)

[@Melth]

I'd recommend the Odyssey to experience Homeric literature. It's quite good! I really can't recommend the Iliad at all though