Age of Sigmar 4: Disciples of Tzeentch Faction Pack 2024 - Full Review

[@CPyJIb]

00:00:00 - Intro 00:01:20 - Battle Traits 00:06:49 - Battle Formations 00:10:07 - Heroic Traits 00:12:18 - Artefacts of Power 00:14:09 - Spell Lore: Lore of Fate 00:20:45 - Manifestation Lore: Manifestations of Tzeentch 00:21:59 - Manifestation: Burning Sigil of Tzeentch 00:24:04 - Manifestation: Tome of Eyes 00:25:35 - Manifestation: Daemonic Simulacrum 00:27:14 - Kairos Fateweaver 00:32:10 - Lord of Change 00:36:58 - Curseling 00:39:08 - Fateskimmer 00:41:11 - Changecaster 00:42:21 - The Changeling 00:44:47 - Gaunt Summoner on Disk 00:47:30 - Gaunt Summoner on Foot 00:49:12 - Magister on Disk 00:51:17 - Magister on Foot 00:53:42 - Ogroid Thaumaturge 00:55:08 - Tzaangor Shaman 00:57:26 - Tzaangors 00:57:58 - Tzaangor Enlightened on Foot 00:59:58 - Tzaangor Enlightened on Disk 01:02:00 - Kairic Acolytes 01:03:58 - Jade Obelisk 01:05:44 - Tzaangor Skyfiers 01:08:22 - Chaos Spawn of Tzeentch 01:08:56 - Pink Horrors 01:12:19 - Blue Horrors and Brimstone Horrors 01:16:53 - Burning Chariot of Tzeentch 01:17:31 - Screamers of Tzeentch 01:18:45 - Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch 01:19:30 - Flamers of Tzeentch 01:20:43 - Outro

[@cursling9]

🧂 do I detect salty notes in the lack of plus to casting for the chaos god of magic comment 😂

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

you do

[@jaysalmon3259]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams which is pretty fair tbh. They reduce our save compared to other greater demons cause we are book nerds but then we get no bonus to cast compared to them? be fair! you have a more generous read of the faction than I do tbh, but I am still going to soldier on and see what can be done. I worry that we just don't have the dmg output to deal with other armies. The horrors can be a pit until you run into an optimized list of certain armies who can clear 40 wounds with relative ease, and with the unreliable burning mechanic (worse nurgle mechanic copy boo!) and our frankly lackluster spellcasting and shooting, I just don't think we have the dmg to compete. If your opponents are more casual could be ok I guess, but I dislike relying on my opponents generosity.

[@cursling9]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams me too, bud.

[@KBMinc]

@@jaysalmon3259 Nurgle doesn't get destiny dice for battle trait, so i think the worse burning is fair. However, nurgle isn't a great comparison as they are likely worse off than Tzeentch right now.

[@Archkeyon]

Super meme list ill be trying out 4 drops 3x Lord of Change and Karios with 12 flamers and 20 blue Horrors with Morbid manifestations and Lore of change

[@darkjester53]

I know you invented the term 'trippy stippy' out of thin air but I'll be damned if I'm not going to use this in AoS conversations or while judging as a TO.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Hahah the stippy is. You gotta qoute me

[@Jenkstudio97]

Really want to make a Tzaangor heavy list but they don't have an good combo box sadly...

[@jonpeacock5580]

sure they do its the thousand sons combat patrol, you get 20

[@cursling9]

@Jenkstudio97 this is the only way I've ever played Tzeentch

[@antonionotmyrealnamo6333]

Anyone else thinking Masters of Destiny dice should maybe scale based upon army points?

[@renaukint8264]

Wondering on something, doing the double turn you dont get to pick a battle tactice, can you then use Kairos to still do one that was allready used in the past?

[@renaukint8264]

Resurrecting by loc does not take into account fortified or not, its half of the starting amount when buying before you fortify, so it will always be 5

[@nicholassmith5206]

I'm a Daemons player in 40k so naturally all four gods in AOS. Never played Tzeentch in AOS but looking excited to try them, I do however wonder if I will have to build outside of the daemons to make them viable. Had a couple of slaanesh games under my belt and can see how rolling Daemon only units might be a little too restrictive

[@cursling9]

@nicholassmith5206 daemons are better (better here meaning higher win rate). It's mortal lists that are tricky but kore thematic.

[@LJIsak]

Q: Isn't stacking multiple +/- 1 to hit and wound generally a bad idea? Since it's capped at +/- 1 anyway.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

+2 Means any -1 you can ignore. The game has lots of + and - so thats the meta game state

[@jonathangatson72]

If you return a reinforced unit of Blues with LoC, can you rally that unit above 10 Blues, or does the half size replacement unit no longer count as reinforced (i.e. it is capped at 10 Blues and 10 Brims)?

[@gophermanX]

By my understanding the new unit is capped at the size you returned it at

[@pbodyjel87]

The "once per turn" conflagration of tzeetch " ability at any shooting phase. Does that mean if I damage multiple enemy units with shooting or spells that have the "wyrdflame" ability I can can burn multiple units in that specific shooting phase? Example 3 flamer units shoot 4 different enemy units and damage them.. each of my flamers can pick an enemy unit totaling 3 units to burn? Thanks in advance for any advice.

[@ParanoidBebop]

No, the Conflagration ability states "Once Per Turn (Army)." The Army keyword means you can only use that ability once across your whole army regardless of how many units may have it or are able to use it. The rest of the ability states that you "Pick an enemy unit" that has been damaged by a Wyrdflame ability. SO you only pick one unit as a target out of all units that were hit by Wyrdflame to apply the burning keyword to. You can however use the commands Magical Intervention or Covering Fire to cast or shoot in your opponents turn and apply another burning keyword to another unit because the opponents turn is a separate turn from yours. The only other way is to use the abilities from the Chariot/Skimmer/Ogroid because they have ways to apply the burning keyword directly without using the army battle trait. Hope this helps clear it up!

[@erikstoner98]

You should never have to roll a die for a Once Per Battle abilty in my opinion, or you may take as many tries until it goes off.

[@cursling9]

Does "burning" prevent rally from working?

[@Karnagar]

Yes, it stops healing and returning slain models

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

thanks for answering

[@cursling9]

@@Karnagar nice. Thanks!

[@oliverbradeen7524]

I want the tzangor side to be good- and everyone hyped it at release, but the demons have been amazing for me, with overlapping buffs/debuffs and recycling of units with lord of change. Enlightened on Disk or 20 tzaangor aare probably our only hammer so that’s kind of an issue but lore of fate lets you -1 to hit and 5+ ward them combined with -1 to wound from burning makes them decent. Curious to see your full thoughts by the end of the review

[@Njilin]

I think you were too nice on GW with the Lord of Change. It is not just the power level thing, in the past that was balanced by it having Mastery of Magic and Beacon of Sorcery which made it undoubtedly the most powerful and dominant non-unique wizard in 3e. I realize it is a good unit, but it is an atrocious and unforgivable flavorfail that hardly feels like a Lord of Change, next we shall surely receive Bloodthirsters that are poor in combat, Great Unclean Ones that are squishy and easily killed, and Keepers of Secrets that are super slow. If they had only bumped its power level up to level 3 in exchange I would be fine with it losing Mastery of Magic. Whoever designed this Lord of Change should be fired, that is how pissed I am.

[@itsmefirefox]

Tzench in the corner preparing for the buffs

[@jonpeacock5580]

burning feels hard to try to put on multiple things, and very easy for the enemy to lose the condition. all our range went down and for some reason none of our units only ment for shooting have the ability to shoot in combat or fallback and shoot

[@oliverbradeen7524]

Agreed in my experience you just target the thing you’re going to give -1 to hit to and then don’t roll the burn effect at the end or the turn. Also apply burn to second unit in opponents turn to keep them having to heal or rally

[@alexcannobbio710]

I played yesterday Tbh the main problem is that on a D3=1 the enemy stops burning Other than that, you can consistently spread 2 burnings per round, and even just having 1 or 2 to debuff a strong unit or prevent healing is very useful

[@gophermanX]

@@alexcannobbio710 It's hard to tell if it's intended but right now with the rules as written you can just choose not to use the damage ability for burning and thus avoid the chance it falls off.

[@PhoenixExcess]

Tzaangor spam feels really strong right now. Daemons feel ok? Burning is bad unless you’re in wyrdflame subfaction. Then it’s only good to leave on the unit for the -1 to wound and never activate it. Heavy healing armies like soulblight laugh at you and hard counter burning. Both heavily rely on morbid conjurations to shine right now. Not as down on the book as I was originally after about 5 games, but it still doesn’t feel right. I don’t feel like I’m playing the master of magics. I’m either tzaangor spam and doing my best destruction impression or I’m cowering behind horrors letting my endless spells do all the work in the list.

[@tomdavis3848]

Not true for Soulblight, it stops a lot of the healing

[@PhoenixExcess]

@@tomdavis3848 it stops one instance of their healing. Which they can just use rally to get rid of it before deathly invocations. Even if they don’t use rally to take it off Torgillus allows them to use deathly invocations twice which means even if you had 3 units burning somehow, you prevent the first one from going off sure, but then they just do it again. Vampires and the hunger are much the same, they out heal way more than you can apply the burning debuff. And if you’re just using it for negative -1 wound it comes off every turn. Sure you stop some of their healing at 1/3 the rate they’re doing it, but let’s not kid ourselves here, that’s not a good trade.

[@Carboncopie]

Can you use the ability of the tzaangor shaman on the same units more than once? As in: you have one tzaangor unit in combat and two shaman heros. Can I pick the same targets more than once per turn?

[@ParanoidBebop]

This should work. The Rule of One states: 1: A unit cant use more than one CORE ability per phase. Its not CORE and its two separate units. 2: A unit can't use the same ability more than once per phase, it's two separate units using the same ability, not one unit using it twice. 3: A unit can't be affected by the same PASSIVE ability more than once, its not a passive ability. So yes you should be able to target the same unit from multiple shamans if you want.

[@Carboncopie]

@ParanoidBebop thank you for the answer, I guess bird is the word then.

[@thesoothsayer9223]

My tzaangor are converted from beastmen gor and don't have beaks. Ready to ruffle some feathers

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

You best

[@jackwilliams1484]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams you best-igor

[@theOGBitSlinger]

Feel like the lord of change would be pleased with your ambition!

[@Kolbjorn24]

So you can have 10 blue and 10 brimstones in the unit at one time? I played with just have a max of 10 total and they felt like an absolute tarpit. I can’t even imagine what they will play like if the 20 in total for a 10 man unit is how you play them

[@FirstIncarnate7]

you can ofc

[@Jarlaxle890]

Are you sure you can also cast arcane suggestions magic (Kairos) in the enemy hero phase? If yes, it is also true for belakor magic Enfeeble foe?

[@daswookie79]

Yes, you can

[@Jarlaxle890]

@@daswookie79 can u explain me?

[@daswookie79]

@@Jarlaxle890Magical Intervention, it’s a command that lets you cast during your opponent’s hero phase, you just get a -1 to your casting roll

[@StriderofDoom]

First to the fray! 💪 Glorious 🔥

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Hope you like it

[@Narwaana]

Will there be a Bonesplitterz Review? :)

[@daswookie79]

Cult Demagogue doesn’t work with Destiny Dice.

[@tikelmypickel4729]

why is that ? was it asked in a Q&A or confirmed that it doesnt work ? cuz i thougt that could've been a nice way to make use of those 2-3 in destiny dice for a quick clutch spell even if yeah that sounds good.

[@tysonwollas235]

Played Tzeentch just two days ago they lacked magic. A 2 cast Greater Daemon is standard not the Daemon of magic. All your units hit with a max 4+. I found the army lacking.

[@pdthepowerdragon5412]

So as a Tzeentch player I adore almost everything in our book with the exception of the Lord of Change. A 2 cast wizard at no bonuses is just a real shame and it gives a lot of cognitive dissonance as my Lord of Change isn’t a better caster then many of my other wizards or even the other greater daemons.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Its so dumb how bad it is tbh but i like the book

[@pdthepowerdragon5412]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams I’m not even sure if it’s a bad unit; but it’s an underwhelming wizard. The apex of magic in Chaos and it doesn’t have a single magic related ability, they’ve had 3 editions to up the casting number. They took away so much and gave pittance in response.

[@oliverbradeen7524]

@@pdthepowerdragon5412in my play experience it’s not bad unit as you say just not a magical Dom bird we want it to be

[@pdthepowerdragon5412]

@@oliverbradeen7524 pretty much. If they made the recursion worse and gave it 3 casts, probably upped the points past 400 then I’d basically only be signing Tzeentch’s praises. I love so much of the index honestly just very sad about my chicken.

[@王思齐-s3d]

It is actually better than it looks. You can get the artefact to make it +1 to cast, and the bubble of Karios make it +2. If you got place of power it can be +3, which is quite powerful.

[@alexcannobbio710]

I have a match in 30mins, lets see

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

good luck and hope it goes well

[@alexcannobbio710]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams we tied at 40-40, many mistakes on both parts but not bad for the first game, and was very fun, i liked the castle playstyle i tried

[@moelester1008]

Creamy