AIR COOLED VW flat 4 engine Running hot how to prevent it in more detail

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[@spud-from-Nam]

I worked as a heavy duty VW mechanic for dealers in California for 12 years (1968 - 1980). I totally agree with the idea that I never saw a filter location cause a fire. I had a fire in the engine compartment of my own 64 bug, but that was caused by the carburetor nipple falling out of the carburetor as shown here.

[@johnfreeman1189]

Thanks for putting that great information out there. I have noticed my rubber fuel lines stiffening up (getting brittle) in less than 2 years since the fuel chemistry has changed.

[@TheDasbull]

I have a 1600 in my '60 bug. The cooling capacity was originally for a 36 horse engine. I prop the engine lid at the latch on freeway drives in the summer - definitely lowers engine temps. My front tin in front of the fan shroud is modified to allow air to enter. I run dog house cooler with functioning thermostat and flaps. Heater boxes and old thunderbird header. The ethanol fuel "vapor locks" or "boils" way easier than non ethanol gas. When I stop during a drive in the summer I always let the engine idle for a few minutes to cool down. You definitely get hotter in so-cal than we get here in eastern washington 🙂. Thanks for the video 👍

[@Mikefngarage]

Yea mostly here we dont run them flaps. some guys run them welded open. say it pushes the air to the right places. I feel like the restriction from the obstruction of flow is a catch 22 on that one. We did have lots of engines come in the cooked from stuck thermostat. Several cars. like 50 or more. We figured here no need for them. Just let the engine warm up, drive it slow low rpm and in a mile or so it was totally warmed up. Some easterners need them for cold winter driving. I think today not necessary because people are not winter driving old vws

[@TheDasbull]

If I lived in California, I probably wouldn't run the thermostat and flaps. Up here, I like the heater for defrosting the windshield in the spring and fall. I won't run the new style thermostat, only the old style "bellows" type - they fail open rather than closed like the new thermostats. I probably drive my bug 4000 miles a year unlike when they were daily driver status 😉

[@Mikefngarage]

@@TheDasbull yea for sure. I would run them too there. Beware We did have the original style ones and they were the ones that became stuck shut. I dont recall how it would happen but it was VW stamped ones that were failing. Original OEM. Keep an eye out on them and you should be good.

[@markjacquet]

Mike, Agree with you on the fuel filter position and the brass inlet tube coming loose. The one and only fire I had was caused by fuel hose rot. I am seeing rot on stock German hose that was installed approx 1 year ago !!! Due to the nature of modern gas (I am in California) I am now switching over all fuel hose to one specifically formulated for high ethanol use: 4219BG Barricade. I am also switching over to fuel injection clamps. I know this hose is not the exact same size as the German 5.6 mm hose but it is very close. If you want to spend the $$$ you can order a European hose of the exact inner diameter that is also very resistant to ethanol, etc. Keep up the good work!

[@Mikefngarage]

I havent had any rot yet but heard about people who do. I use german hose. It may be there is some china stuff that looks like the german out there. not sure on that. the hose on some of my engines is 3 years old and no rot. Keeping an eye on it though. All the stuff I get comes from a reliable source for german hose.

[@NormT2a]

Another great part to have are the extra ears by the airrvent. More air through them or an extra oil sump. 🤙🏻great Video again Mike.

[@martyp7134]

OP 0

[@greggstrastrain8642]

Hi Mike, I really enjoy your channel. You and EZGZ are my go to guys as I got into VWs about 4 years age when I bought a kit car. Basically it was a 69 Beetle with a fiberglass body that looks like a MGTD - a car I always wanted. When I got it, the only thing that worked was the brake lights. I rewired it and ended up putting an engine assembled out of all new parts. Now it’s a 1776 duel port, with a mild cam and external oil filter. I’ve always had heating issues. Most would think that the engine cooling is like a dune buggy. I did install a dipstick temperature warning device (calibrated). With that and my VDO oil temp gauge, I can keep a pretty good eye on things. On a 90 deg day, I would see the oil temp reaching 230+ after an hour at 60 mph and I would stop of course. I’ve done everything that you suggested up to and including cool tins. All of these things helped, but each change made small improvements that just delayed the time until I became uncomfortable with the temperature. I was investigating an oil cooler when I ran across something else that made sense. Installed a smaller alternator pulley for a 356 Porsche. The ratio with my stock pulleys was about 1:1.75 and after changing the pulley, it became 1:2.25. It made the biggest difference of all. On a 90 deg day, the engine would stay below 210 even when I pushed it to 70 mph for 15 mins after doing 60 for a hour. I worried about the ability of the fan to handling the rpms, so I installed a nice welded one from Scat. My pulley failed after 100 miles and I decided it did because it wasn’t OEM, I got another one and had the hub welded to to the back half like a stock VW. 500+ miles so far. I do think in the spring and fall I should change to the stock pulley because on a cool day, the oil temp will only reach maybe 180 even after driving two hours to a show in northern Ohio at 45 deg. (No heater or top, but I do have heated seats!). Once again, thanks for all the help.

[@elpuerco6059]

The factory did not have an external plastic filter and neither should anyone else. Further, over tightening those unnecessary clamps on plastic IS the cause most leaks after rotting hoses. Do yourself and all the viewers a favor and keep all external filters out of the engine compartment. Last point, the cloth covered German hoses clamp with plenty if force if installed fully and don’t need clamps. Rubber hoses may need clamps but I don’t use them.

[@Mikefngarage]

OK so when they were new they had no rust in the tank or lines. So yea there was less of an issue. I just pulled a chunk of rust out of my 36hp carb plugging the needle and seat after the screen in the pump......SO dont tell me not to use a filter. IMO and most shops do it as well. Run a filter . Plus we DID see several and I mean several German hoses, slide off the carb..... I ALWAYS and every shop I know always put clamps on the pressure side of between the pump and carb.... The carb does not have a anti slip bump on it.... I have seen several cars where the hose slid off and caught fire over the years. FYI. We are talking 35 to 40 years working on these.

[@Mikefngarage]

and the reason we run the filter there is because sometimes the old steel fuel lines come apart from the inside from rust and age.. Putting the filter in another position. will do no good. If it is used like they way I do it in the engine compartment with clamps.....30,000 plus cars we have seen with no issues. That is a lot of data.

[@elpuerco6059]

@@Mikefngarage You misunderstood me. I’m saying don’t put the filter in the engine compartment. Ever. You choose to put it there purely for convenience and nothing else. It’s dangerous and a silly risk to take for a sweet ride. Clamps are optional with correct parts. I’ve never had any issues in my anecdotal experiences.

[@georgelewis8904]

Why do any one want barrel fire,neaver heard of that, thanks for the video have learned some

[@Mikefngarage]

many guys have too small cc combustion chamber and use shims to lower compression This is common on many vw engines THe best way is to open up the heads but it is more work and money. At least now they have new combustion chamber heads like CB has some AA performance has them and a few others. AA best value. IMO

[@HubertusSchaper]

Great Information Mike well explained.Regards.HCS

[@tecate9408]

Good insights from years of experience cannot be substituted. Just recently got back into vas and realize I forgot a whole bunch, and never really learned some important stuff. I'm thinking now I need to ind a reputable builder for an engine and transmission specifically for my lowered 62 type1. I never owned a lowered one and man so different from stock height in many ways. I wish I had some more knowledge around to help guide me preserving and enjoying my ride. I have had them lowered, lifted, and by far my best driving experience was stock. I appreciate the knowledge presented in your videos very much! Thank you!!

[@DemopVWgarage]

seen a few cracked plastic filters mainly ryco, but I guess there's a few different brands out there now that are not good quality.

[@Mikefngarage]

possibly In my lifetime all brands of cars toyota nissan chevy ford have made plastic filters prior to fuel injection that were ALL in the engine compartment. Never been an issue on any of them. I only have seen filters that were cracked that should have been changed years before. so old it would not matter.

[@redshirt-scotty]

of course VW wouldn't admit it. (super cool tins type 3) i use them too. been running cool for thousands of miles

[@Paulman50]

Best vidio on this I've seen so far. One Q. What is the dia of the power pulley, I think that the builder has put one on my engine.

[@Mikefngarage]

I will need to check. They are smaller than the stock one. a lot smaller.

[@Paulman50]

@@Mikefngarage thanks I would say mine is stock size then.

[@silversurfer233]

Great stuff Mike!

[@oldvolksbus]

i totally agree!!! these are the reasons you say. its absolutely nothing to do with the fuel filter. I'm glad you've been so brave and argue the case knowing you will have people argue. sorry I have'nt liked more of your videos! i have multiple accounts where i follow you, so i have liked, loved you videos on at least one. keep up the great videos!

[@Mikefngarage]

Exactly!!

[@kenmoyer9704]

Thanks for the explanation. Appreciate it. That oil cooler setup is off of a Vanagon? I would love to put something like that on my 1970 bus. I want to try to increase the air flow as well, but not sure how. I have all of the standard tin in place but the engine still gets hot way too easily. Anyway, I'm always impressed when I watch your metalworking. You've definitely built up your skill-level over the years.

[@Mikefngarage]

empi makes them now and they are pretty good quality for todays china empi.

[@kenmoyer9704]

@@Mikefngarage I've tried other empi products in the past but did not like the results. Have they gotten better?

[@kevinhamling1963]

Hey man, Kevin here from Australia. Great video you've covered a lot of ground i hope people take notice. But some won't and they'll just continue to whinge. But anyhoo thankyou for sharing man. 💯 ✌ Peace.

[@muzzcovw7674]

Great video! I will disagree with one thing ( one of those guys lol) Recently I have seen a new, cheap pos plastic fuel filter cracked at the base where the nipping meets the body and was leaking. Fortunately no fire! But yes its usually what you've said

[@Mikefngarage]

yea for sure I bend them a bit before I put them on too just to make sure they are pliable. Plastic filters were used in all makes and model cars and in the engine compartment before fuel injection..... Auto manufacturers never were concerned Toyota Nissan honda GM and ford.

[@elchicousana2]

Fire happens because the tip of carburator goes pop away and keeps pumping fuel while carburator goes empty. You need to use the small sheet trick embracing the carburator tip and tip sink with the worm screw ot he hose.

[@toro80]

I run the type 3 cooling thin but I modify the bottom covers to fit Do that make the engine run hotter? I even make the covers for the j tubes so it’s completely close like the original

[@Mikefngarage]

that would be cool too to shield the exhaust heat. also wrap the pipes. helps as well. I am putting home made clamp on heater boxes on the merged header after i am done I will wrap them so that is not done yet on that bus.

[@toro80]

@@Mikefngarage great man thanks for sharing that info I learn the hard way to run all my cooking thin and your videos were a great help rebuilding my engine 👍🏽

[@IAm1InTheIAm]

Mike, I have a setup very similar to your bus, no heater boxes, just J-tubes. Seems like they radiate a lotta heat back up to the heads by their close proximity. Any value in wrapping the J tubes (or even the entire headers) to direct all that heat away from the underside of the engine, and instead out and away through the tailpipe??? Thx

[@Mikefngarage]

yea that is a good Idea. I did that on my 2007 engine. I will be doing it on that one in the video too when I finish my home made. Merged header clamp on heater box. I will wrap the whole thing. It helps a bit but remember the air flow is away from the head so the hot exhaust air is pushed away. I was in near high 90s weather driving to Havasu climbing the grade out of the desert passing at 75 in that bus No detonation.

[@vayabroder729]

Also helps if you use these. Only $7.95 per side: www.geneberg.com/product_info.php?cPath=24_547&products_id=1262&osCsid=7vphrvpafgkrd73gdsdsaedp27

[@jamesmonaghan8304]

The most cause of vw engine fires is the fuel delivery hose leaking on to the distribar

[@nickel1008]

I have weber windows that were uncovered. Overheated at anything over 2700 at 55 mph, it has dual 40s and I thought it was tuning or timing, but after I removed my decklid for the ride home and it ran much cooler at over 60-65 mph. I'm thinking the weber windows are "stealing air" that the fan would use and it's getting sucked out those windows instead of cycling thru the fan. I have all the tin and the super cool tins. I don't believe it's hot air being recycled since I'm going 60, could this be my problem? That I just need to cover the weber windows?

[@elpuerco6059]

There is a reason the factory put the intake vents where they did. Those “windows” MUST be covered or you are sucking in hot air from below rather than cool air from above because it’s an easier path for the air to travel. Just cover them and make sure ALL the seals are in good condition and properly installed, check timing and jetting, too.

[@Mikefngarage]

yea could very well be stealing air Especially on a early car with no decklid vents. Those are ducts were designed for 40hp engines. We used to put a spacer on the decklid latch which held it an inch off of the rubber seal . That usually solved some of the overheating issues on early cars.

[@nickel1008]

@@Mikefngarage it's a 72 with the 4 sets of vented rows on the deck lid. Yeah I think since it happens at highway speeds air enters the engine bay then exits the weber windows instead of flowing thru the fan

[@nickel1008]

@@elpuerco6059 at idle or low speed, yes. But this is happening on the highway in 40 degree weather, I believe it's more of air not entering the fan when entering the engine bay and then flowing out the windows instead of thru the fan. I don't think it's hot air recirculating cause when I'm sitting at idle it will cool back down, so it must be related to the fan and rpm speed

[@Mikefngarage]

not stand offs on the latch area.

[@patrickmclaughlin6013]

13:34 you can't get those little tins anywhere

[@Mikefngarage]

yea you got to have some old heads to salvage them from if they are missing.

[@nickel1008]

I just found a place that makes them. It's called awesomepowdercoat.com

[@kevinhamling1963]

@@nickel1008 you click on there custom store . And they are called super cool tins $20.

[@vayabroder729]

@@nickel1008 I believe they are $20 shipped and you can rivet them to your aftermarket cylinder tin. Also they’ll weld them for you if you buy new Scat tin from them. Powdercoated as per your choice of color for $85.

[@patrickmclaughlin6013]

@@nickel1008 Thanks for the follow up NICKEL 100

[@paulhaggard8237]

I had the 3 piece screw together, came close to a fire, leakage 1 time.

[@Mikefngarage]

Yea I only use the plastic ones. all guys here stay away from the screw together ones. they are a fire hazard.

[@jamesmonaghan8304]

The biggest problem with vw air cooled engine is the small amount of oil the sump

[@jamesmonaghan8304]

I love vw air cooled engines driving them since 1970

[@fogsho]

Great info

[@mk-jl3zd]

That coil position is incorrect though!You tell me why!

[@soggz4246]

Great vid. Would a stock 1600 twin port benefit from a Empi breather box please?

[@jamesmonaghan8304]

It is in the head

[@Blairzboy]

91 Ron lol

[@johnjennings4843]

y

[@BMC1100]

I was once driving along in Western Sydney on a very hot day in my truck when a woman pulled out of a side street in a Beetle and passed across in front of me. As she passed I could see flames dripping down under the engine. I quickly did a U turn to follow her to try and help. She pulled to a stop when the carb run out of fuel and she got out and opened the hood to be greeted by a ball of flame! I managed to get the fire out but it had done a bit of damage to the wiring and plug leads. It turned out that the barb into the Solex was loose and her husband showed her how to push it back in when the motor stopped and she had done this numerous times.

[@elfenmagix8173]

Excellent information! I knew most of it but you added and clarified a few things here and there.

[@modotvideo]

Awesome knowledge Mike. Love the words of wisdom. I always run cool tins they work! Hey these are air cool motors

[@MostynFaulkner]

Mike, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. 👍👍👍😎😎😎

[@vayabroder729]

Great video; also read that distributors with vacuum advance as came stock also help the motors run cooler and be more fuel efficient for street use. What’s your take on that?

[@Mikefngarage]

I dont think that really has any merit. Usually people run vacuum advance distributors to mask jetting issues.

[@fritzkuhne2055]

VERY important video!

[@thomastalbot5947]

Also: fan belt tension, Hoover bit for the dog house, and run the factory thermostat and flaps.

[@Mikefngarage]

FYI I dont have thermostat flaps or thermostat. running 9:1 compression and 100 plus outside temps No overheating issues or running hot in a bus. I did see several cars come into the shop many years ago with stuck thermostat and toasted pistons. I am not really a believer that the flaps help I think they do as much damage as good. Restricting the flow of air, and the possibility of getting stuck and ruining the engine. The theory is that the flaps direct air to the best positions of the engine to cool it. My theory is that more stuff in the way slows down the air flow. and when I run the cool tin the air is maximized allowing more air to the hottest part which is the heads.

[@alexjinks6172]

One of your best !

[@haskyb9184]

Really enjoy and get a lot out of these mechanical videos of yours, Mike. Also found the gearing/tyre videos really helpful. Thanks for uploading Ben 🇬🇧

[@Mikefngarage]

cool man it helps to know some of these things.

[@haskyb9184]

@@Mikefngarage it really does help. I’m now watching a few pairs of 195 80 15s to go on the back on my oval. Something I never would have considered without stumbling across your channel. Think there’s a lot of us out there who get a lot out of your uploads. It’s a shame more people don’t take a minute out to say thanks. Merry Christmas from a distant England 🇬🇧 Ben

[@milo6373]

@@Mikefngarage Mike always on point , thanks , and thanks to my brother Victor Torres race engines sound advice always , from both....✌️🙏☯️💎🔥👍😊

[@merlin1346]

I have seen trikes without any tin around the bottom of the pots, is that normal?

[@fredruiz3855]

Mike, if i run a 74mm crank with a 110 engle and 88 thick walls and use a cb performance electronic ignition (distributor less) what do you recommend for advance timing degree to run?

[@jamesmonaghan8304]

That's the wrong engine for that model