Air Sim is Broken Right Now at Top Tier - War Thunder

[@zehi04]

i'd fly in sim more often if we had maps like dcs, just overall bigger, more airfields on different parts of the map( not just lined up next to each other ) and if there was more shit to do than to just kill each other, more convoys, anti ship missiles, carrier exclusive maps with no airfield etc. , if gaijin wants sim to stay alive, they need to make bigger maps with more objectives , i feel like these old maps just aren't built for fox3's, they're built for coldwar era jets, and also the issue of the balancing, they need to just make flight models accurate, america in real life was always better at bvr, but not in dogfights, the missiles that america has will always outrange ussr ones except if they make an even bigger timegap, but russian flankers should be beating american jets in dogfights, and they just arent flying like they should be

[@gabrielneves6602]

I'll tell you a secret about them wanting to keep sim alive: they don't want it. Remember the strike? Guess which game mode had the far shorter end of the stick? GSB and ASB. They actively hate and avoid us because we are a active voice on community, and don't just take their shit

[@iulian29-67]

Bigger maps would also incentivize high altitude flying and BVR to conserve fuel and maximize the missile's range. We also need smaller teams. 32 players on a 128x128km map all armed with Fox 3s is not fun at all

[@theperson5185]

@@iulian29-67a 250x200km map would be phenomenal

[@lasse4416]

This so much! Unfortunately wt is full of ”arcade” players who dont wanna get into sim and just wanna spam 30 games per hour in air rb (which i consider arcade btw). Wt has so much potential and awesome vehicles, but game mode and map design is holding them down so bad 😢

[@JunkNVamps]

​@lasse4416 the thing if people *wanted* to play DCS, they'd play DCS. Trying to argue that WT isn't an arcade game is completely ignoring the roots of the game

[@bubyboo]

they need to add a pve sim mode, with more objectives, for example destroying radars, SAM sites, dynamic frontlines with infantry, etc. And 2v2 3v3 and 5v5 PVP

[@mavor101]

And AI that is capable of threatening players, not just dumb targets randomly flying around.

[@joddypranata1862]

Hear hear, I approve of this idea, since even DCS allows players to commit PvE even they made it better!

[@TheDAWinz]

@@joddypranata1862 PVE in DCS is a joke, the AI is the worst of any game out there and you have to meticulously script every mission just to get something done. BMS has a actually good dynamic campaign.

[@Frost_x_NB]

Just join low pop lobbies. If your not good

[@finnm.2582]

@@TheDAWinztry the Skynet IADS script and build multi layered air defenses. I guarantee you that you will get shot down.

[@GRNbull98]

Mega-larp masterpost inbound:I think a lot of the problems with the asymmetric matchmaking would be remedied if the game modes were asymmetric inherently. A bunch of Su-27s and MiG-29s, even with fox-1s, would be able to decently contend with F-15Cs and F-16Cs if they were operating over friendly ground for THEM but for NATO its a sprawling IADS of GCI radars and SAM sites. In a 2v2, two F-15Cs vs two Su-27SMs on a 200x200km map over neutral territory, unless the Eagle pilots are near braindead they should realistically 1) get the first shot off 2) never be seriously put on the defensive. BUT if that same exchange happened over idk Israeli-Syrian border while two F-15Cs were escorting some F-16As on a strike mission, the F-15s would be at the mercy of Su-27 pilots who have assets at their disposal that ARENT radar sets powered by some hamster wheels and vacuum tubes. (exaggeration). Of course there should be improvements to the typical sim game mode BUT a broader, slower paced and more immersive game mode that plays out more like a persistent campaign than a 2.5 hour match, would be nice as well. Also: Should we get larger maps (PLEASE) the MiG-31BM would easily close the BVR gap. It's radar vastly out ranges the F-15 and F-16 and carries some of the better missiles WITHOUT having to make a colossal and rushed leap to the Su-35 with its AESA radar. MiG-31 cant dogfight for shit but from an avionics/BVR standpoint it should be basically an F-14B with better missiles

[@TheDAWinz]

SU-35 doesn't have a AESA, its a PESA.

[@okakokakiev787]

Su35 carries r37m as well. 200+ km kill irl

[@mangosuppe8706]

@@okakokakiev787 Only really effective against awacs and similar but maybe that will be added by then who knows?

[@КанистраКеросина]

@@mangosuppe8706 right as 54s, both are designed to counter large, barely maneuvering targets

[@blessthismessss]

protip for bypassing slow Su-27/MiG-29 radar scan: swap to IRST HMD and lock your bandit up, usually IRST HMD will pick any afterburning jet out beyond the 10km that PD HMD can reach, and additionally IRST locks seem to acquire much faster and more stable than PD locks in any HMD/ACM mode, assuming theres no flaring. once you have the lock, swap to radar and you basically achieve all that in less than the 8 seconds it takes to scan normally, if you can get used to it. sometimes this enables me to lock afterburning twin engine fighters at up to *25km* frontal aspect with the IRST HMD, which you can then hand off to your radar. this means sometimes you can even outrange the NATO standard 18km ACM mode

[@ItzCPU_]

I am watching this whilst cryogenically frozen.

[@silkyzoid]

CPU

[@Swimmy109]

Bruh, we found eachother lmfao.

[@freezedvegetal]

@@silkyzoidshut up

[@silkyzoid]

@@freezedvegetal no

[@ItzCPU_]

@@silkyzoid?

[@DEFYN]

aktuly blue side DESERVES to bully the skillless RED players after they had the MOST OP MISSILE ever for YEARS.......

[@srgabrielfb]

Agree, was a pain in the ass to defeat the R27ER, while trying to counterfire with a missle that could be Kinect defeated, slower and with no IOG+DL.

[@RylanTempleton-w5l]

@@srgabrielfb why didn’t you just fly low? I flew both teams and rarely got killed by the ER mainly the ET from a sneaky flanker

[@RaeAGE]

Another Russian main bitching lmao welcome to SIM it’s realistic as possible and in real life Blue team would rule the skies, go play ace combat if you want arcade mode even teams

[@RylanTempleton-w5l]

@@RaeAGE I’m a U.S. main because it’s easier bruh. You have to balance both sides or who tf would want to play the worse team? There is a reason why there is only 2 Red players per game and 12 Blue players, it makes it so it’s boring gameplay, all I gotta do to kill a MiG or Su is turn in a circle, if that’s fun to you then go to DCS

[@TallyPatka-dz2cz]

nah but in all actually you gotta realise DEFYN that the Russian flight models have been shit after the mig 23mld compared to other planes, also I wonder why no body complained about mld vs f14, they had aim 7f which was much better. Also in sim the aim 9m is such a pain, no being able see it. Also the ER could easily be avoided 100m multipathing existed, f4j vs mld the f4j players complained cause of flight performance and people cared, but now we have worse flight performence, worse radars, debatably worse IR missles (ET no included that is just something else) and worse radar missles. The balance has all shifted towards America, they have better everything

[@therealmp40]

For what it's worth, my understanding is that the weird waffle fins the R-77 has aren't modelled correctly. They are supposed to help the missile retain energy in turns better than normal missiles, which of course doesn't help with range but it would at least make it so R-77s would stop missing what seem like guaranteed kills, since right now it's very easy for someone to dodge them without even realizing it

[@TallyPatka-dz2cz]

yeah the chicken fence fins arent modeled correctly they are supposed to have very little drag when the plane is above transonic and they dont effect energy retention as much as them having stability for like high angle attakcs, e.g the guy is diving, gaijin gave it the transonic drag from what I have heard which effects it alot.

[@camaradeKC]

btw for the red sides enjoyer just pick a map with french on ur side so you will have the mica help. i dont think that sim will die since its already dead compared to his past glory the rp u win are way too low to be attracting

[@pbluma]

I'm an old guard but I only recently got to top tier and I jumped most rank 6-7 jets with the Mig 21s... This era was alright, but then the Mig 29 and SU27 felt like playing with a handicap. But now I see this wasn't all just in my head.

[@Dank-o-Dave]

All well made points, I'm sure Toast will appreciate that he's not a sweat lord lol.

[@yashkasheriff9325]

Holy shit you remember me

[@erice.9514]

I really wonder why no one even mentions that they changed the system so planes do not render over 8km range... It should be called Beyond visual render... And that just sucks. I can't most of the time find enemies visually....

[@Unknown_Comrade_]

Was wondering why I just couldnt see my opponents using my TGP, thanks

[@erice.9514]

@@Unknown_Comrade_ you know what Gaijins explanation for the change is "you can not see planes with bare eyes beyond that range." That they also took it from other means of viewing and even introduced targeting pods is just boggling the mind

[@dimka9777]

@@erice.9514 yeah man thats fucking wild same happens when you are targeting ground targets with lantirn or some sh

[@erice.9514]

@@dimka9777 yeah and something that is also bothering, is the inconsistent nature of things. You can spot things, when it's in a friendly 8km sight bubble, also AI units create such bubbles. But sometimes it renders not dark but bright or pastel blue behind a blue background. Or you can't see it against the color of the ground but the target creates a huge heat flair trail you can spot. It's just a mess

[@spray916]

Flanker could really use a flight model buff so you're not completely reliant on your R-73s. At this point I think the addition of the R-77-1 may also be warranted. As for the Flankers radar, as far as I am aware, the issues with the radar scan speeds are accurate. This would only be fixed with an SM3 or a later flanker like the Su-30/Su-35. R-77-1 is an equivalent to the AMRAAM C5. A flight model buff would give red side more cards to play then a missile which may not help at all due to the bad radar.

[@mikeyplayzwrld]

R-77-1 will be added with the C-5. It’s ok for Russia to not have the best radar missile in the game for one patch dude.

[@spray916]

@@mikeyplayzwrld Only adding a superior would give a much needed boost to red side? The R-77 is trash. There's also the factor that red side has worse situational awareness, worse avionics, carries less avionics on average, a considerably worse FM, and can only guide on two targets at once. Even with the R-77-1 the F-15s would STILL be the most dominant jet in game. I don't believe the R-77-1 would change much though as the main downfall for the Flankers is the radar. The 29SMT lacks sustainable battle presence. They really should buff red FMs a bit and perhaps add the R-77-1. Not to mention Blue side ALWAYS has more players.

[@SgtWall1ce]

Amongst the big four (WT, IL2, DCS, BMS), WT's greatest strength is that it is the most easily accessible combat flight "sim". Your proposal is just treating the symptoms, and would just be another link in the leapfrog arms race of what the current meta is. The pressing issue is that Sim EC is a neglected gamemode, it isn't the cashcow that ARB is. We're missing significant elements that a 4th gen air combat environment would have. We need TDL (EWR and AWACS implemented), IADS, SEAD & DEAD. Many are frustrated with how simplistic WT's gamemodes are now. Warthunder Sim EC is a bare bones air quake game mode now. Those with HOTAS simpits and the means are transitioning to DCS and IL2, as are those in DCS to a higher fidelity digital "warfare" simulator known as BMS. So it goes.

[@dinosaure_jr4595]

They could also just make realistic ec. Making support for the game mode not just for the niche sim community but also for people that only play realistic right now and feel bored by that

[@davinparker3614]

@@dinosaure_jr4595i’d love only ec maps in realistic i’m tired of playing these small maps..

[@dinosaure_jr4595]

@@davinparker3614 proper ec just in realistic settings

[@KaguyasBeat]

Slight correction: The T's and ET's do have IRCCM the same as the R-73's, but it's not nearly as good. It's sight shrinks from 1.75 to 1.33 degrees so it's not too major a change. Rear aspect it's basically impossible to flare so that's generally the best use scenario for it if the opponent is aware of you and flaring, but other than that particular instance yea it's very easily flared. I've had an F-15 flare it when it was 1km away from impact just yesterday. Idk if the R-77-1 would be much better as things stand based on datamines of it. It would be an improvement but still likely outranged by the AMRAAM A. R-27EA might be too much for now in terms of how this game plays and where it currently stands.

[@mogu3reklame]

My experience on red team is mostly getting hit by aim 120 while i am taking off the runway

[@BeerSougion]

Ask the Iraqi airforce for their average game experience

[@Nigh-T]

I have actually had a lot of fun with the Mirage in SIM if you can sneak up on people the MICA at 10km outperforms everything

[@clankplusm]

one small note from sonmething you said towards the start: R27ET actually does have IRCCM, iirc it's similar but somewhat inferior to the R73, meaning rear aspect ET shots are pretty hard to flare, especially what with many of your targets right now being ultrahot F15Cs. I've seen ETs get flared at 7 km rear aspect and hit Asides that I concur with this opinion from my own findings, especially that it's not JUST the missile difference, having grinded the Su27SM and F15J Kai this patch already (the latter by using the stock F16AJ I never used and working through that towards spade + finishing my F15J spade) fighting REDFOR every time with the JASDF planes (the US players are objectively worse on average than anyone playing redfor rn), the SM has the hands needed, but what REALLY makes things rough are the avionics differences like the radar and the usability of things. The SM however gets the one pro of getting ETs pretty quickly I guess, so it's not waiting for the ARH missile to be at peak performance. **That said, one of the other big things turning redfor away** (and this is a theory as I grinded the SM in RB then spaded it through Sim), has to do with the trees themselves, **Not the F15C and Su-27SM inherently (Though because of extensions of the same issues)**: If you look at the BLUFOR side of things, most players have a F16C at the start of this patch, and want the F15C/AV-8B+, this means they have to knock out a ~20k RP modification to get the 120's onto their F16C, a very competent platform with, notably a range/ID RWR and a perfectly good Radar. This allows that player to play with that until they get their MSIP/ Harrier. Alternately, a few will play the F-15A, which has a disadvantage to the SM as no ARH, but we'll return to that later. On the REDFOR side, bar retreating to another bracket in rank 7 like

[@cruz0reu832]

Great vid, for me the real killer is just how slow the radar is in picking up targets. You can play around the missile having poor range, but not a radar that refuses to pick up targets. As far as i can see the NATO planes would still be greatly superior to the 27SM even if the latter recieved the R-77-1

[@ВячеславФролов-д7я]

I'd love to see some sort of awacs/ewr in sim battles

[@jordancourse5102]

Gratz on 3k subs 🎉. Asa flanker main, 100% agreed. Imagine if every blue team main was actually a good pilot and knew what they were doing, red side wouldn’t stand a chance at all. A lot of sim players use the argument “well you have 15+ kills in the flanker so clearly the plane must be OP”. 85% of blue main players just fly in a straight line and don’t even try to contend but I digress. Also gaijin needs to fix the matchmaking and ghost lobbies. That’d be a good start.

[@dti1312]

The R-27ET does have IRCCM but it's worse than the R-73 IRCCM. Plus it's the FOV shrink type which works best at close range (while the ET is long range)

[@dazcookiez3714]

the R27T/ET have worse FOV than R73 and MagicII, however it is way more sensible to rear aspect. it can entirely bypass flares in rear aspect even from 5km.

[@dinosaure_jr4595]

I mean we have so many country’s having both Red and blue. For example East and west Germany, Italy and Hungary etc. If we would get harsh wets vs east balance in sim those nations can join both sides with either their f4’s or mig21‘s. So when harsh balancing of team sizes is active those can join either the team that needs more mates. This also giving Hungary to the red team. Maybe add Romania to France. More small Warsaw pact nations to fill lobby’s. I would also put more emphasis on china. They have a lot of planes not even added. Also a lot of players that would fill red teams.

[@Hazey652]

If im remembering the dev server test video right (and I could be wrong) the 77-1 was almost the exact same performance (range) as the current 120A so I don't know why we couldn't get it because even RB is suffering (although nowhere near as bad as sim) from how strong the 120's is compared to the competition.

[@craigohagan4053]

It’s great having the jas39c tho bc I can play on both sides so now I get to launch the rb99 at unassuming American pilots from 25 miles at fl350

[@nimbal3304]

@@craigohagan4053 That thing is definitely 3rd best after the F15 and F16

[@RylanTempleton-w5l]

Last update was ok the ER could be dodged so it allowed Blue team to force a merge, now Blue team has the range of the ER and red team can’t just fly low and force the merge

[@a.e.richardson218]

red team also lost in the merge in both :(

[@RylanTempleton-w5l]

@@a.e.richardson218 true but red team used to have the range advantage (but that was countered by just flying low)

[@ClankerWanker]

I agree. The question is what should we do about it? I think that with new more advanced missiles coming out, we already see such a difference in capabilities and theory of use in weapon systems, I think it’s REALLY about time gaijin starts thinking about balancing these teams with different game modes. The doctrine that Russian aircraft were built to fit just doesn’t match the Wild West every man for himself gameplay offered by the EC game mode. They were built to operate with heavy support from SAM sites and if we had for example, an S300 or two in game, that would not only provide red team with some much needed relief but also give blue team something to kill other than players and static bases. Not to mention it would make the game more realistic and give some incentive for gaijin to work on SEAD weapons. That’s just an example but I think with the player base mismatch at top tier I think it’s definitely okay to put blue side at a gameplay disadvantage especially when they also have a hardware advantage. Then they might even be able to bring back a more historical matchmaker where the US isn’t fighting against Japanese fighters and Israeli aircraft don’t attack the US except for that one time nobody wants to talk about… What do you all think about this idea?

[@zehi04]

i agree with you on the adding of more ground targets that could provide needed cover for their aircraft, not just because it'd help redside but because it's a breath of fresh air for sim, the gamemode needs variety in ground targets, objectives, larger maps etc. , instead of just keeping everything the same as it was years ago, why wouldn't they add stuff that plays into the advantages of redside playstyle ( or blueside for that matter, not that we need it ), conclusion from all the drama would just be that sim needs alot of working on, and balancing will be an issue so long as gaijin ignores what the players say

[@Registered_Simp]

If I'm not mistaken, the R-77 we currently have in WT massively underperforms in speed retention. The grid fins are supposed to provide a bit of an edge in supersonic performance at the cost of notably worse transonic and subsonic performance (This is reflected in their estimated IRL ground-launched range being significantly worse than Aim-120). Literally all the Su-27SM needs to fight is for R-77 to be fixed. Even if the plane still won't be as good as say F-15C or F-16C, it can finally stand and swing. Same applies to MICA and Derby/R-Darter.

[@MagentaFerret]

You are mistaken. Not even russia uses grid fins anymore on the newer R-77s. It's a shit missile and should not have anywhere near the range of an amraam.

[@ValadarishUR]

​@@MagentaFerret Even newer versions don't improve much, R-77-1 in Ukraine war footages are all being fired under 40miles... I say to my friends all the time that Russian bias time has passed, now every single russian fighters going to be at least 30% below the average, we need to accept, Soviets used to made great birds, but russians don't have any idea how are they doing.

[@devdream9277]

40 miles is a good launch distance though@@ValadarishUR

[@Registered_Simp]

@@MagentaFerret My understanding for why Russia does not use Grid find on the latest version of the R-77 (R-77M), is so it can fit within the internal weapons bay of the Su-57, which it is primarily designed for. My understanding is that R-77 should be close to early Aim-120's. If this is not the case, could you point me in the direction of some good sources?

[@-..----.--.-...]

​@@MagentaFerret R-77 is superior to the 120A in most cases, and its straight line performance is on par with the 120C-5...

[@hanimim]

I basically only play my JAS39C on the red side because I can't get games otherwise, and I always do get outnumbered 2:1 except on very rare occasions. But the blue side players I get are more than often really bad, which makes the situation somewhat bearable. Balanced but not really I guess.

[@rixyl7475]

Side note, on Paper the R77 should be as good as if not better than the aim 120A and is closer to a 120B. The problem is that in actual use cases the R77 is almost non existent. Really the problem is that we know IRL a 120 is about a 50% hit chance (imagine that but Gaijin makes it feel closer to 70-90%) and that R77s have been used a handful of times AT BEST. The R77 should not be getting THIS out performed until the C comes out and HOPEFULLY for Balance we get R77-1 to maybe keep up. Keep in mind I play a lot of both US and Russia. The AIM7M and R27ER difference wasn't/isn't as big of a difference as we have now. People need to stop being afraid of launching bad Aim7's to make people go defensive early to force a better Aim7 launch. Again, I play both and my F16's are confidently out performing my Mig29s and Su27s.

[@gendo1]

Insanely accurate description of the sim situation in WT right now. 10/10 all takes are solid to me and it makes me fear for the future of the game mode.

[@CptToastman]

I tried to stream re-direct to you the other day but it didn't work.

[@dazcookiez3714]

the only thing i would change for sim, is having controls like DCS. use WASD to move the plane around like RB, but make pitching "relative" so you dont need to tap the S key to turn slowly. basically like a very high speed trim. that would make planes way easier to fly with m/k, giving more people access to sim.

[@gabrielneves6602]

Me watching this, safe and sound on my 109's and p 47 's, as well as ob my tigors and t 26

[@Schimml0rd]

LIKE A G6!! 🎷

[@gabrielgiordano5080]

77 battles in the old J11 gave me 16 victories, 21% winrate, all that with 1256kills in it... and with J11A 6 battles with 1 win, if nothing is wrong there then i might be crazy, my f16C with 81% winrate xD

[@lameducky]

"Just notch bro"

[@ShuRugal]

I don't know about the state of the R-27 family in War Thunder, but in DCS you can turn the tables on someone who is used to fighting low/slow Flankers by climbing up above contrails and getting up to at least mach 2 before launching. If your target isn't used to that, the missile can reach them way sooner than they expect, letting you get the kill. especially if you don't immediately crank away and give them an obvious cue that you've fired. You'll still eat AMRAAMs, but you'll sneak a few kills in.

[@DonutWithMustache]

Great vid, great points, great takes. Bravo, you earned a subscriber. also inb4 all the redditoid cope comments of "ERM YEAH NOW YOU KNOW WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO GO AGAINST R-27ER LOL STOP COPING ITS FAIR".

[@michaelstodovski2219]

On the other hand You thought the R-27ER was "balanced" against Sparrows lmao The only issue rn is that the Aim-120A Is overperforming more like an Aim-120C In DCS the A/B is not as long ranged

[@franciscohughes1757]

​@@michaelstodovski2219the r27 wasn't "better" it just had guidance that didn't fuck up the track and sling it into god-fucking-knows-where-istan or making it wobble so much it bled its speed faster than a diabetic and a packet of skittles

[@DonutWithMustache]

@@michaelstodovski2219 i never said the R-27ER is balanced against the sparrows. dont put words in my mouth, man. The AIM-120A/B isnt overperforming. its flight profiles match most real life numbers. The problem is that the R-77 has more drag than it should, turning its "less range" into "no range". The AAM-4 and PL-12, which should be artificially nerfed to AIM-120A/B performance for balance as they are better in real life, are for some reason nerfed even more and are worse than the AMRAAM. The MICA just flatspins and the Derby just throw itself into a wiggle that bleeds all its energy most of the time. tldr: AIM-120 isnt overperforming, but the other missiles are seriously underperforming.

[@Notanpilot]

You dont get it donut, if they have to notch so they dont die to a radar missiles, its op. So usa suffers (pls f22)

[@Hurin170]

@@DonutWithMustache lmao just notch bro

[@MythicPi]

I think the sensor gap between the REDFOR and BLUEFOR jets is getting pretty obvious as a major concern, but to some degree, im not sure what can be done to remedy this unless they start skipping REDFOR jets entirely. Its also not as big a deal in RB as it is in sim, which makes it much lower priority game-wise tbh. The R-77's seem to suffer from the fact that they generally aren't designed for the launch conditions seen in WT. They perform more similarly to the AMRAAM at very high alt and high launch speeds iirc, but people tend to launch from lower speeds and alt, which harms them disproportionately, and the 77-1 doesnt really rectify this issue, just gives the missile more motor to work with, which might arguably be the best solution atm tbh. We could also talk about team comps tbh. The chinese likely could have skipped ahead and gotten a better J-11 variant with better sensors, instead of an arguably inferior Su-27SM, the germans should've gotten something more capable, such as an F/A-18 or an F-16 as a subtree addition (instead of france, which did not need the BeNeLux tree at all). Its not just Russia thats on the backfoot, though they make up the backbone of REDFOR in sim, its all of REDFOR being subpar, with the 2 primary REDFOR nations being supbar, and the Germans being the clear worst top tier air nation by a country mile. This means your only real chance as REDFOR is hoping France is on your team. Sim matches could/Should also have more varied team distributions available, with an option for "Everyone vs the US" being a pretty clear option for resolution of player counts between both teams, granted it would be damaging to jet type distribution, with F-15/16's being seen on both teams rather heavily if done. Map sizes really need an increase, though im not sure how technically feasible it is for WT tbh... Finally, theres the issue of objectives. The objectives in sim are dated and need a rework for modern combat. GBAD sites, ground based radar, convoys that actually do things on roads that arent low poly and dont allow them to clip through the ground would be a good step in the right direction. AWACS would also allow for datalink to be a thing, limiting the issue of the bad russian radars. Theres also the massive issue of REDFOR teams never getting bomber destruction missions, which make it near impossible to win, as the BLUEFOR players are the only ones to get the super easy air defense objectives, which is massively imbalanced.

[@plaguetheair8975]

Nimbal, we used to play sim together roughly a year ago. Og Gaming and Holliday

[@WIKUS70]

The planes in sim are lovely to fly but the game mode is so dull and so static for so long... recently tried to get into bombing there to get a tiny bit of variety in gameplay and what do you know the new update broke carrier bombing for my F105... bombs hit but no detonation anymore. This game never fails to frustrate me. EDIT: they fixed it finally. EDIT#2: It is borked again. they pass through now and explode in the water.

[@delayed_control]

Now you know what DCS pvp feels like

[@duncanbester7380]

Lately I've been back on ww2 it's been a good time on sim

[@AeroTurtle]

You made some good points in this video. I think what they could do is add the R-27EA which is the fox-3 version of the missile. Just limit the amount you can carry to 4 or 2.

[@СергейНикольский-я2ц]

I’d say that 27EA would be too OP, they just need to fix bleed rate of 120A cause rn it is kinda funny to see almost 40km MAR at 10km altitude when it could barely reach 50km irl, rn it outperforms 27ER in terms of range (not speed/how fast it can reach the target but just max range) while irl 27ER’s max range is kinda close to the 120C-5 so basically rn we have 120C-5 instead of 120A. Also irl min range of the 120A is 2km while ig it easily hits targets inside this range and turns harder than 9M at such close rangers

[@toothlessDJErcik]

R-27EA is never used and it didn't even go into mass production. And even if R-27EA comes into play, I'm sure it will be more powerful than AIM120A. I think what needs to be done is to either reduce the range of the AIM-120A. The 120A's range is ridiculously good in game. In fact, it is almost at 120C-5 level. Sounds like even adding R-77-1 might fix the 120A problem lol

[@-..----.--.-...]

​@@СергейНикольский-я2ц Yeah, now it's a better dogfight missile than the aim-9m...

[@AeroTurtle]

@@toothlessDJErcik tbf gaijin has added a lot of things that aren't even mass produced. F-20 and HO-229 to name a few. Gameplay trumps realism in gaijins eyes, since that's what makes them money.

[@spasti7026]

@@-..----.--.-...a higher bleed rate would make it even better in a dog fight

[@rixyl7475]

Just from my Experience today alone. All of my R77 kills have been fired within 10km. Not one outside of 10km has even COME CLOSE to its target. I've also died from an R73 fired at an INCLINE 10km. I'd like to argue in its current state the R73 is out performing the R77.

[@dmitriikuznetsov575]

So I am one of those from the red team. I used the avia sim to quickly get from the very bottom to the top of the USSR avia br and a felt pretty good on 10.0 and even 11.0, but when I started to fly the first Su 27 I've noticed that I just suffer. Yes, I thought it is because of the experience and stock plane, but when I got my R-27th, nothing has changed. I am still suffering without any chance. My last sim flights were 0:6 and 0:3 kill to die ratio due to merciless f-15 and f-16. I hoped that the newest flunker can make any change, but no. After that I just dropped back to the su-25 and shitty no-radar Mig-27m, and magically I was still doing kills once again. So I can only say that even flying on the Tram A6 is way more entertaining in avia sim then the current Soviet top. This is just screwed up.

[@mavor101]

Shitty radar, shitty airframe, shitty radar missiles, shitty IR missiles (compare side aspect shots with 9m). The new su-27 is garbage at it's BR.

[@Boris_The_Turtle]

The normal R-77 is supposed to be kinda comparable to the AMRAAM but Gaijin doesn’t model different drag at different speeds so the grid fins end up being literal air brakes.

[@flashtirade]

Obviously to continue the trend of full realism, Gaijin should add RED balloon targets to fill out the teams

[@folftasticgaming7491]

I love sim, but I struggle with this same issue as a Blue player I find myself flying around not finding anything. And then when I do its borderline impossible to tell friend or foe as F-15's on both sides go brrrrr

[@ДонныйАдмирал]

Funny thing. In 90s British guys tested aim-120A and R-77 and the results showed us that r-77 had a bit more range than 120A and more maneuverability. Aim-120A must be the worst missile of all in the game, but sooner we could have got much more advanced ones which are of course much better than Russian missiles (except R-37 lol but US also have an alternative). But well, every first summer update in WT is "God bless America", no balance at all

[@joaopaulovianaladislau4105]

Could you provide sources from where you found this information?

[@Vini_the_Teco]

There's a easy way to make It even, 3km death rádius for contested area AA, 5km for convoys, remove the despawn of It when the mission is over, americans hardly do ground atack and It would make the battles better

[@olivetheguy2234]

im so happy someone is finally speaking out abt the flanker's atrocious radar. i fking hate it in sim, legit. its not even a joke when u say it takes a million years to pick it up on radar even though u see the guy. bro is my new fav ytuber

[@fallen_kinx179]

When flying red side expect to have 2~4 players on average on your team and by the time you land there's on 1 guy left 😂 the best way to survive is Pray that you have a Griphen on your team

[@Tabaskospecial]

I think the solution is why many of us play sim in the first place, I think it’s high time Air RB enduring confrontation matches should be a thing.

[@ActuallyNotIlmatar]

If multipathing was anywhere close to real life, the altitude larpers could still play the exact same way, whilst knife fighting missiles like R77 and Mica could be made better use of. Sure this would screw over a bunch of lower top tier rank 7 jets, which operate on a more diverse set of seekers, but that'd be easier to remedy than whatever this hot mess is.

[@UkeoerD]

The main difference in dcs pvp for flying flanker is AWACS A-50 planes that help situational awareness and strategy

[@PvtPartzz]

I’ve been doing better with the F4F ICE than I have with the Mig29G and that’s before I unlocked the aim120’s for it. It’s almost all due to the efficiency of the radar it has compared to what the Mig29G has. That’s to say that I totally agree with the viewpoint shared about the workload the Russian/soviet fighters have. As for your suggestion, while it might help, I don’t think it would do too much to change things. The best thing I think gaijin could do to alleviate the balancing issues is to put AI on teams that lose players and become imbalanced. The AI can be found in matches that are started through the matchmaker rather than by creating a new lobby. While the AI are far from perfect, they are tenacious once they’ve merged with you and having more enemies for the blue’s to worry about is HUGE for taking pressure off of the few remaining actual players on the red team.

[@Ki0hazard]

one thing i dont see people talking about is the planes actual cost, if a plane is better then the other make it cost more resources. if one sides planes are cheaper, let them have more planes on that side. there are more ways to balance the game without just buffing or nerfing the plane its self. also missile costs, full loadout of fox3 should cost more in game match resources then fox 1 and 2. like if you had a full team of high end planes dieing the cost could lose you the game. encourage them to have a mixed loadout.

[@dln6231]

What if they added the R-27EA? It wouldn't have nearly as good of a seeker head as the R-77, but the speed at which it flies would make it a very good missile. Basically you would trade in useful range for speed making it an interesting tradeoff for semi-close engagements.

[@skiby2852]

Yeah I agree that rn playing with the red side is a challenge most of the times up to some level I like that challenge that keeps you alert but there is nothing I can do to evade 3 targets because I am one of the few players in my team. At the moment I'm grinding with the first mig 23 and oh my I didn't knew it had such a terrible radar and spading it is a nightmare with the missiles the few flares and f4s as enemies. But as I said I like it most of the times because it force you to adapt and be creative with your tactics. One day I will reach top tier, till then hold on brother!!!!

[@Zenitchik_130]

I'm Japanese main, and even tho I fly single best fighter in the game it becames quite... Not hard, but very energy and attention demanding, there always like at least 2 planes on you and they all basically you but sligtly worse in dogfight and your team is just flankers who struggle becasue it is flanker in sim and half of the team bombing. Combine it with red team having like 4-8 players less and you get single F-15MJ and single Su-27SM fighting whole damn USAF fighter wing on their own. In one game I got 39!!! kills and friendly flanker got another 25 or so and we still lost with enemy having about third of their points

[@Zenitchik_130]

And why the hell Japan on red side? Good hlaf of my death are from teamkills becasue people confuse me for enemy eagle

[@Dark_Reaper2-6]

I need to start my air trees grind lvl 100 and don’t have top tier air lol

[@loganvelasco1889]

I played a ton of sim games in the MiG-21S and won exactly zero games because the team just gets stomped. Also super annoying being on the same team as China or Germany and having to worry if that Saber in front of me is friendly or not. Yes I keep my radar off 90% of the time to avoid sweeping an RWR so no IFF isn’t useful

[@House_of_Schmidt]

Air game modes just need a rework. They're not working.

[@3YearsApart1613]

Whole video is how bad the flanker is, but drops more kills I have ever gotten in my entire life. lol

[@freakmusicaddict]

The point about Captain feels so real. Ita like he is asleep when he records his videos.

[@koju_]

I'd like to complain about one thing, Past 9.0 Japan should be able to get in the same side as France Idk why gaijin didn't add any composition where Japan and France are both in the blue team

[@HowIsAsh]

"MLD was or still is really competitive to go against something like an f14" Yeah no, after gaijin listened to a broken report that wasnt even talking about the mld its been a brick. It was one of the best dogfighters in the game and now its f14 and f16 food

[@elementalgolem5498]

yes, the flanker is also forced to fly low, literally like 10m over the ground in real life too, sim is a sim at the end of the day. its not like you can 1 v 1 with the flanker in DCS in the air you are using valleys and mountains to hide your radar

[@SlipKnot7866]

The worst part about trying to use the Flanker even in RB is that it's just so ill-equipped comparatively and then throw on top of it that even if you are someone who knows what they're doing in BVR situations and working to the merge where the Flanker is more lethal, half the time chaff doesn't do anything besides represent confetti. Last night I went into a pretty long session in WT and at least 10 different times I would turn, notch, chaff, turn cold, pull away from, and then re-engage after a solid period of time and either A: some other prick is already there firing another AMRAAM, B: the person who initially fired on you is some either tunnel visioned or complete moron who follows you the ENTIRE way you're evading and just waits for you to be turning back in to fire another missile and you're just fucked. I mean I literally had someone in a Mirage2k fly alllllllllll the way to OUR airfield, and then he finally turned in on most of the teams' 6 which was insane to me because I tend to spend a few extra seconds before I take off to lag behind and because I like to lag behind, I'm not expecting someone to really appear behind me since 9/10 people will turn in from their flank in front of me, but when I was shot from behind by that M2K I wanted to quite honestly throw my monitor at the wall. 99% of the time NO ONE and I mean NO ONE is following the suggestions of what you should do, esp in the current Fox3 meta that when you're someone who's following the usual rules and ideas of BVR, you're literally playing at a disadvantage because now there's thousands of idiots who are just SPAMRAAMing left and right, scraping the ground to turn in at the weirdest times, or they're just some schlub who's up high lobbing missiles from like 70km away and then wondering why they never get kills [maybe it's because the missile has no energy left DUH]... I know it's a rant but to sum it all up, unless you're flying in a western plane with solid radar and missiles, you might as well just not even play... It seems a lot of people who play the red side are legit trying to follow the typical rules of BVR and trying to make it work in some capacity, but because of the better equipped western jets, and the plethora of just mindless people who do the dumbest shit sometimes lobbing and spamming Fox3's left n right just to RTB for more within the first 5 minutes of taking off, you're purely f u c k e d.

[@evolking801]

I love how everybody is engaged in his conversation points and I'm floored by his 16x kill shadowstreak in sim

[@ericw2674]

Fix the radar scan rate and give the R-77-1. Easy win

[@honzavasicek]

Scan rate is correct, that radar was shit, in fact all mechanical radars they produced were utter dog compared to what was used on the west. Only with the pesa they caught up, late but they did.

[@hemendraravi4787]

@@honzavasicekwhat about Smt radar ?

[@Kwendrastorm]

You should take the Mirage out for a spell, it was cute to get the MICAs then dodging an amraam kinematically to find myself at 400kmhr and surrounded by eagle falcon gangbang. Flying the mirage low sucks too, I want the speeeeed! And the MAW who sees a launch anywhere on the map and dumps all my flrchaff. It's still fun though ❤

[@cleanpotato8600]

My biggest pet peeve about sim is the nav ball, it doesn’t work and it seems lazy from gaijin to just ignore such a crucial part of the hud

[@jimnycricket2322]

I fly sim in VR. I completely agree with you.

[@zenki_ls400]

i like your input on this and i feel one way to fix this is adding the R-77-1 since it has a sustainer it will have the extra range and its already in files and giving US the AIM-120B with better tracking is all and its already on the Tornado and such and not super different but on the pylons that accept the ETs they should be able to take 2 and ONLY 2 R-27EAs which are a ARH R-27ER and will get the speed advantage that they have but with the ARH seeker so you can fire and forget it may be a bit OP for the current state and maybe just the R-77-1 and maybe the AIM-120B would be all thats needed but even then the F-15J has the AAM-4 which is similar to a AIM-120C and also the AIM-120C is already in the files so who knows what happens but its safe to say that the current state of the game is historical to real life because American and Western jets in general are just known to be more user friendly for the pilots than the Russian counterparts

[@Fatdog223]

NATO got the aim-120D before r-77-1 was produced

[@marcoderry9349]

I'm getting into sim lately and germany is my first (and only) tech tree. I'm currently at the Mig23MLA and it sucks ahahah. It's not even because of the aim120s because I can't really see them yet HOWEVER, the MLA doesn't pick up the lock from F4Ss and they are very common in the blue team, so you basically just blow up out of nowhere because the RWR just isn't good enough. You get pinged once and you get an approximate idea of where they might be, but you can't turn towards them in case they shot a sparrow at you you need to be notching (which is very hard considering that you don't really know where they are and I'll repeat that you get ping from the RWR not locked warning. On top of this they recently changed how the mig23 radar works and now it automatically switches from src to src mti based on what you're looking at, however if you had locked someone with src and it switches to mti, the lock will disappear (and I believe it works like that in the other way around too). So basically locking is completely useless as well as the R-24Rs. The only viable option is taking cover with the terrain to avoid getting spotted by f14s and f4fs and if you see someone just swap to IR radar and hope for a lock within the next 30 seconds, after which, if the opponent realizes what is going on they can just kind flare twice and the missile is dead. Overall kind of frustrating honestly but I'm now researching the F4F ice and hopefully I'll have a better time then

[@nimbal3304]

@@marcoderry9349 yeah not being able to pick up PD signals is really tough rn at 11.7. Quick tip though if you didn't know, the radars in the F4J/S and F14 really struggle to track or even pick up targets flying away from them. In most cases, if you're somewhat low to the ground and suspect someone has fired a missile at you, all you need to do is fly away from them ever so slightly, in other words you dont have to STAY in the notch as anything past it wont get picked up by those radars either. (This wont work for Phoenix's as the have a different onboard radar) F4f is also deffo worth a try now, it lacks sparrows yes but you get an amazing RWR and better flight performance than the F4J/S so if you get to the merge you should ulhave the advantage Its tough bro but hang in there and try to make the most of it!

[@marcoderry9349]

@@nimbal3304 Thank you so much, this was a much needed tip ahahaha. I'll try this out for sure. Do you know if this also works in Air RB?

[@nimbal3304]

@@marcoderry9349 glad to hear it dude, it does work in RB aswell yeah the mechanics are the same

[@brodykloster2102]

The r77-1 is comparable to the aim 120c-5 in terms of range, it still has the problem with speed bleed and being a flying brick, but it has a LOT more range, when they add the aim 120c-5 and the r77-1 as they are both in the files, they will outrange every single missile in game, and the flankers will be competitors with the Americans

[@algroyp3r]

Similar issue in DCS - red is just not competitive because of the missile performance gap. Interesting fights can only happen in 80s scenarios without AMRAAMS, in modern almost everyone wants to play blue

[@kurotenusagi]

The situation is bad as matches can (and sometimes does) become 1 vs 5 or even 1 vs 8 like I had just. These aren't fun although you can get a lot of kills by staying completely silent and low and as you have no team, you can almost always assume any contact as enemy. R-27ET and R-73 are your best friends. Even the IR sensor feels nerfed as it really doesn't do any good. It cannot see anything. You can see enemy planes way easier than Mig-29/Mig-23/Su-27's IR sensors can pick them. Your missiles can also pick them while onboard sensor does not see anything. Eyeballing and roleplaying some submarine simulation by flying 20m above ground below mountains and hunting unaware enemies. It's not a real air war simulation. As long as game relies mainly on 'air quake' stylish battles, there's not much that can be done. Give a better missile and better IR sensory or create a sim matches where FOX-3 missiles cannot be accessed.

[@Someguy7488]

The other thing, and this will be the saving race. India has not entered the game yet they have been tied to Britain if you introduce India as its own country and tech tree this could save red forces. They have all types of Russian aircraft some of their own, but also French aircraft this could tip the balance.

[@blackchallis]

I'm sitting around 9 to 11.3BR and I think thats more fun

[@luggilu7864]

Honestly war thunder sim should get a full rework. The flight model is just horrible. Flying with a joystick just feels incredibly weird. Id recommend switching to DCS for sim gameplay, as the cockpits and radar models are way more tuned to be used properly

[@realmealdeal1999]

Uuuuummmmmm the R27ET does have IRCCM bro. I agree on the other points though such as AMRRAM > R77. Something does need to be done about sim urgently.

[@iulian29-67]

Gaijin messed up A LOT of things with this new update in terms of Fox 3s and radars. For the missiles, the AIM-120A severely overperforms (it should behave more like an AIM-7M with an active seeker instead of being a copy paste AIM-120B), the PL-12 should have a range of around 100km, the R-77 has about one third of the range it should he able to reach since the moment the motor stops burning the missile starts braking heavily. Even at high altitudes (10,000 meters or more) the R-77 is not usable beyond 20km. For BVR id much rather use the R-27ER than the R-77. As for the radars, the Su-27SM's radar should have a range of 150km as well as an MTI mode (the N001VEP was made to do terrain scanning as well) and should probably be able to pick up targets easier than the N001 we have on the Su-27S, given its a big upgrade. I doubt Gaijin will make any changes to balance red side though. The US is the cash cow when it comes to top tier jets, and Air RB is the main gamemode so Russia being outmatched is a non issue to them since you can overcompensate with teams full of F-16s and F-15s.

[@ClankerWanker]

I have it on good authority (people who have actually fired the aim120A) that the amraam is slightly underperforming as far as energy is concerned. I’m not sure where you’re getting your info. The B variant shouldn’t be much different from the A. The only reason the B even exists is because there was a reliability issue with the A variant that wasn’t a large enough concern to warrant disposing of all A variants. They just started mass producing a corrected version and called it the B variant. Don’t really have much to say about the other missiles mentioned here, though I will say I am not inclined to believe the R-77 should have the flight model it currently does. It seems like a lot of people are exaggerating a lot when they say it’s bad… there is absolutely. No. Shot. Gaijin would release a Russian missile with 30% of the range it should have. Those grid fins are NOTORIOUSLY draggy and are no longer used in modern versions because of that. I will grant you it could use a minor buff to straight line, passive energy retention, but certainly not while manuevering. Again those grid fins suck.

[@MythicPi]

That AIM-120 claim is pure cap, we have MULTIPLE primary sources on its performance, all that actually say its underperforming. The issue with the other missiles is that without as robust sources as the AIM-120, its hard to say if they actually should be outperforming it or not irl.

[@jacknickolstine3355]

There needs to be a sim sytle game mode with RB settings. I love sim, its sooo fun 😁

[@spectrex176]

Tbh whatever nation you main you will cry when it is underperforming and be silent when it’s over performing. Just be happy most matches are mixed nations because USA ground doesn’t get that benefit.

[@MrExpertT100]

All i want, is some good ole missiles i can dodge and some cannon fights... I dont want to start evading as I reach top speed.

[@Someguy7488]

I can tell you exactly what the problem is. There’s no jammers in this game Russians use jammer if they had that it would be a lot harder now this game is complicated enough DCS does have jammers so I’m familiar with it. The thing of it is Russian doctrine has surface the air missiles baked in this keeps the Amram threat at Bay. this game needs more coordination and a lot more talking. You would have certain air frames provide air cover such as the MIG 25/31 the Russian version of an F14. The absolute fact here Russia never intended to go head to head with Amram capable 15 or 16. They have surface the air missile systems that keep them at bay with the Russian jets lurking at low levels.

[@twothouse123]

Afeer being absolutely demolished in ground in every match as top tier america I will take the air superiority in sim every time just so I can win every once in a while sucks for Russia when you don't have complete control with the panstir

[@h0lypeanut863]

I haven't played Sim in forever lol. What's the economy like nowadays. I'd like to get back into it.

[@jonesy66691]

I have no idea what is going on in this gameplay, but it kills any drive I had to reach top tier which is nice.

[@grahh7234]

10:55 Such an unfortunate truth, it makes you question why gaijin even added these missiles into the game when they’re so nerfed. It’s a big slap in the face when you grind these nations just for their indigenous equipment to be garbage

[@zehi04]

well they added them because otherwise the players that play that nation would complain, there was no soultion, japan didn't really have an early version missile like the r77 or aim120a , they only later started getting their own missiles later when shit got figured out, so it was either really good missile that's nerfed or no missile at all

[@hemendraravi4787]

@@zehi04Japan used aim120 n they have both aam4 n aim120 in game

[@zehi04]

@@hemendraravi4787 right but i'm saying that the japan mains would complain that they're missing an indigenous missile ( aam4) and then there'd be an outrage if they didn't receive it

[@hemendraravi4787]

@@zehi04 it’s aim120 c5 equivalent obviously a bad idea to add it

[@TheDAWinz]

AAM4 simply isn't finished, it was rushed but stepanovich confirmed its still being worked on.

[@ItzCPU_]

I quite enjoy playing the flanker compared to the F-16

[@iulian29-67]

Honestly the Flanker is pretty enjoyable when the lobby is pretty empty. Flying the Su-27 when the teams are at most 6v6 is pretty fun, despite the giant disadvantages (missiles, radar, flight model)

[@guilhermevitorio273]

Buff red side by adding the mig-31 to the game, it outranges a lot of planes and it's maneuverability sucks so, the r-33 and r-37m would help

[@abidbmtt]

5:20 you can just use ur HMD to lock them if ur that close...

[@itsaadenmate]

Cpt Toastman mentioned🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥WHAT THE FUCK IS YORKSHIRE AIR FORCE✈✈✈✈💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥

[@RogueBeatsARG]

Just waiting for "The Notch that Killed War Thunder" video title

[@SlaingWolf]

thank you this rly needed to be said AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GAIJIN MAKE THE AAM-4 AND PL-12 AT LEAST ON THE SAM LEVEL AS THE AIM-120 IF UR NOT GOING TO MAKE IT BETTER BUT HAVING IT IN THE GAME WHEN THEY R BOTH NEAR THE BOTTOM OF PERFORMANCE OF ALL FOX 3S IS POINTLESS LIKE THEY SHOULD BE AT THE TOP sry for the rant but as a japan and china main im pissed that they have the worst fox 3s

[@arandomredarmykomrade9529]

this problem also seems to have sparked a lot of animosity in the community where i see "red" side players openly disrespecting "blue" players simply for playing that side, even to the point where they justify spawn camping because of their self-described superiority, sometimes with a pinch of irony in that they are playing a country such as france in the new f-16AM (which to be frank really is just a crutch in sim) which doesn't belong to either side like america or russia does

[@The_Official_DDKHellcat]

im a french mirage pilot and mica is also needs some adds - mika em is good for 18 km? but for close combat its good to get mica er