The Reality of Top Tier Jets... | War Thunder

[@SeekerHead]

I'm live right now! kzbin.infoSOtmM3lmpz8

[@House_of_Schmidt]

I wish we had RB EC. Top tier Air RB is kinda boring after a few matches.

[@copperthedergy]

RB EC with ace combat style objectives, real targets to strategically attack, a variety of SAMs so that more than half of the RWRs in the game get to use their other features, just something else honestly...

[@CoolLink-Zelda]

We have pseudo Enduring Confrontation. It is just bigger versions of maps like Vietnam that are called operation. But the matches are still only ca30mins

[@empiricalmadman3260]

@@CoolLink-ZeldaThe big maps isn’t all of what people are looking for. People want a game mode with multiple spawns and meaningful objectives outside of just being TDM.

[@HenryReed2001]

​@empiricalmadman3260 They can go play air sim. That shit is dope and they made it to where it's playable even with mouse and keyboard.

[@House_of_Schmidt]

@HenryReed2001 Sim is fun but it's VERY niche. Most people would prefer Air rb mechanics in EC match format.

[@Frogg-YT]

i still dont get why people still accept sponsorships from ge for wt

[@CecilioSprayetti]

Because it hasn't been determined to be socially unacceptable in the community yet even though its essentially a scam app. The amount of time you would have to spend in the app to get like 300 GE would probably be the time it would take to grind a top tier 400k rp vehicle lol

[@MrLefXi]

@@CecilioSprayetti I havent even found it on the app store in germany or is it just an android thing

[@thombrick]

It's an Android thing ​@@MrLefXi

[@Saber-ut8ri]

Don’t get it you can be banned for ge that you didn’t personally buy

[@mayonotes9849]

​@@CecilioSprayettiLiterally this.

[@snowdropfox5754]

As someone who played Top Tier almost exclusively since the Mig-15/Sabre F2 days, I can confidently say that I won't play it anymore. It's the most boring and one-dimensional gameplay ever compared to lower tiers. Point your nose at someone, turn away and spam chaff, repeat. Even a 109 BnZ is more interesting, especially interesting to watch, than this. The only reason I'm still subscribed to Seek, is that I like their commentary. The gameplay is basically not worth watching, since literally every video is top tier jets.

[@SeekerHead]

Fully agree. Unfortunately lower tiers don’t succeed on my channel so that’s why I don’t upload them

[@finkamain1621]

I went back to 8.7 for a match with my friend in my A-4 Skyhawk and got 7 people, 3 with AIM9Bs. at BR 10-12.7 I end up with 2-3 per match and at 13-13.7 I'm 0-1 per match because everything is basically an F-14 with missile spam. Stock grinding an F-15C with only 2 AIM120s going up against people with 8 active radar missiles is a pain. F-15A was bad enough getting up tiered all the time

[@DakotaHoll]

@@SeekerHead Gotta get them bi-plane videos going. Love the paper planes.

[@TheRimBrakeGuy]

Top tier is a pain that you inflict on yourself because you are a masochist.

[@Cepakor28]

As in 109 BnZ do you mean a 109 BnZ video or fighting against a 109 using BnZ tactics?

[@XYVTN]

you know its bad when a air RB only player switched to ground RB, because of how horrible top tier air feels. It feels more like a punishment to reach top tier in air rather than a reward. "Cool! I have my SU-27SM after 2175495 hours of grinding!" *proceeds to eat 10+ Fox-3 and IRCCM missiles in the first match*

[@BukLao-v5h]

This!!! Finally someone says it....

[@AirRBnpc]

Me too here. I'm really bad at ground RB but I'm having a blast. I have the bmp3 now and it's really fun and now I'm not even that bad at GRB -- Just got 2 nukes with the bmp in a row.

[@pepasverkos9544]

actually its tricky but you can learn how to dodge them and actually have nice time. It feels like spray and pray, but be honest. Who plays toptier because it is a top notch fun? In both ground rb and air rb. It is extremely cool, but the 5.7-9.0 is the real fun for me

[@XYVTN]

@@pepasverkos9544 you can learn until you have missiles coming at you from 6 different angles.

[@SkMc51]

Different weapons introduce different tactics. if you want to have fun, you have to learn and adapt to the new style of play. the missiles are only going to get better and reach further from here.

[@chieftainmk11]

I haven't even bothered to play top tier jets since they added AMRAAMs and similar missiles. I literally only use my JAS-39C for AA role in GRB

[@oscarrydbergh]

Same, I stopped toptier jets when they didnt give the gripen A fox 3 missiles. It had them irl and it never used RB71

[@jaek__]

@@oscarrydberghthe gripen A is at 13.0 and it gets chronic down tiers. and the gripen C exists, are you on crack

[@joy_gantic]

Gripen C is good in th current meta even in dogfights you should watch DEFYN's video on it

[@vinisardagna]

Not only that, but the JA-37D should get AMRAAMs as well, since it had them as a stop gap measure while the Gripen was being developed

[@mainhalo117]

@@oscarrydberghngl I actually like how the gripen a has no amraams because it makes it easy to club the 12.0s in sim/rb with all my 9m’s

[@tibcsikid5775]

Project wingman perfectly sum up wt top tier: "Spamraams out!"

[@Fffffffffffffffffrfrf]

Imagine playing the same match, against the same opponents in a f16adf...with no fox3s Just Two aim7m no hmd no tws...

[@Chapelron]

the prime 13.0 experience

[@hubril7921]

somehow same BR with the JAS 39A and F-15A because balancing is hard for gaijin

[@bradentucker4854]

The Italian f-16 should have its amraams and that 9 L the ice has if I remember correctly

[@dkvsoi]

Even worse in the block 10 f16a

[@market_gardener.mp3]

0:22 wow what i have to do on OF to get entire 6 ge

[@gnueshk1344]

I've gotten about 3,500 matches of War thunder and I totally agree. War thunder TopTier Air RB has gotten very stale. As a result, I have moved to simulator to try and fix many of the problems that the game faces. For anyone that is no longer enjoying War Thunder RB, I would highly recommend trying out simulator.

[@TheDzigi94]

+1 I agree 👍 sim's are more fun then RB

[@porcelanerang7254]

i’ve done the same. su27sm is basically impossible to reliably do well in air rb but i really enjoy it in sim.

[@keenan_wt]

Guys we got a veteran here!!!

[@caviestcaveman8691]

Sim vr with hotas lit asf holy cow I'm having a blast hmu

[@gnueshk1344]

@@caviestcaveman8691 Agreed. Unfortunately I have a bad joystick and no vr so I cant move my pilots head lmao

[@ivan5595]

The game would be ok at top tier if there was actual balancing and no "meta or bombing". Modern technology and BR compression makes the gap of stock or non-meta planes against meta planes too far

[@MrTheWaterbear]

I strongly disagree that IR missiles have no space at top tier - it is SO EASY to nuke ground-huggers who think I fired an AMRAAM at them, when in reality I fired an all-aspect IR. So many people complain that they were multipathing the missile, lol. Get wrecked.

[@enelx6375]

Fair enough. I myself always add 2 aim 9ms on my f16c and 2-3 on f15c. I just prefer those missiles for the cases of someone hugging the ground multipathing

[@honeybadgerbomb4469]

Mirage 4000 can put up a nice fight and it relies on magics

[@RT42069]

ETs and 9Ms are deadly in sim

[@Okivaviko]

you have a good match pray that it going to last

[@andreinedi1563]

I found AMRAAMS to be way too annoying to use while spading the F-16C. Playing "Settings simulator" with all the radar keybinds, the radar getting in the way at close range, radar missiles not wanting to fire at a target less than 15kms away, RWR telling me I'm notching perfectly and then getting slammed out of the sky by the missile I was trying to chaff... Yeah- no, thx. I'll take 4 AIM-9Ms, just 2 AIM-120s for head-ons and hug the ground with my radar off while using terrain to sneak around. Despite what all these youtubers say, multipathing works just fine. I don't think Fox-3s are a mistake at all, it's more than good to have more ways of playing the game and having such a major change in gameplay since the IR meta. And it's also cool having more recent technology implemented into the game. But all the radar missiles slinging and dodging at high altitude is just not the kind of gameplay I prefer.

[@Zosterias]

Man, I can't wait for the F-18's SPAMRAAMs.

[@Vipbossguy]

Perhaps radar jamming pods can save us

[@Cepakor28]

@@Vipbossguy Until you realise they just won't, they might save you at 20km+ but after that and it's either easy to break the jam or you will be too close for the jam to work.

[@Vipbossguy]

@@Cepakor28 not these early ARH missiles, later variants like the 120C had anti jamming tech, but not these

[@Cepakor28]

@@Vipbossguy I don't mean the missile's, I mean the aircraft's radar, not the missile's, the aircraft's

[@Vipbossguy]

@@Cepakor28 oh okay mb

[@phoenixgn9655]

i want RB EC, everytime that i play Sim battles i imagine how it would be a RB EC without plane markers just like sim forcing you to rely on your radar, but with RB controls...

[@jacknickolstine3355]

Everyone wants that, all we have is random operations that's a hollow rb sim with no respawns. Than everyone dose the same shit, kills each other and the match ends. Spaded all the top tear u.s stuff and now I have been playing ground and sea, tbh been having alot of fun with the coastal boat matches.

[@Jaeger_89]

We all know that the true ultimate gigachads of War Thunder play either around 6.0 or 9.0...

[@Hadgerz]

even 9.0 is plagued with supersonics with magics and r60s

[@finkamain1621]

I enjoyed 10-12.7 but now playing a 12.7 sometimes you get AIM120s in the match

[@Brzzzyexe]

for ground 10.3 seems to be the perfect balance of modernity and gameplay, besides for japan and russia, and cas can be really oppresive as the only spaa you get are rolands and trying to hit anything past 4km with them seems like a pipe dream

[@Jaeger_89]

@@Brzzzyexe As someone who loves CAS, I stop playing ground after 6.7 br. Radar SPAA facing aircraft outdated by decades in comparison is just not fun for me. I mean, a 262 has no business going against an M163...

[@guimbitencourt]

As a player that reached the top tier without having AIM-120 (I grinded USSR as first TT). I found myself very frustrated, I can got top 1 in a match but it's not that quite often. So I started to grind France and for my surprise I find a really cool spot to play, which is BR 10.0, I'm having such a good time with my Mirage IIIC, because it's a mix, we need to dogfight, we have missiles, but we need to use them carefully, not just lock radar and go eat donuts. And we can admire the beauty of jet fighters without concerns of being hit by a FOX-3. I mean I don't even have RWR and countermeasures, but if you play well you can dodge de missiles at this BR. When I got the F-16AM I think I might have a new perspective of top tier, since I will be using one of the meta aircrafts and not the really frustrating Su-27SM.

[@andreinedi1563]

I'm also grinding France, purely just to get to the Mirage IIIC and the Mirage IIIE, beautiful and fun planes imo. I find the 9.7-12.0 gap to be way more fun than top tier, although I still play 13.7 because I like modern jets and it's more challenging.

[@moe-iv7uq]

I think that Top Tier Air RB needs a wildly different playing system than a copy-paste from all the previous tiers. I don't really have a name for it, but I like to call it the Bastard Son of RB Air and SB EC. Players would be able to bring a lineup of aircraft (like in Air AB) that cost varying amounts of SP (like with RB Ground) depending on the loadout that's equipped. Players have a choice for what spawn they'd like to begin at, with there being 2 to 4 different airfields spread out evenly with some having closer spawns to bases or targets of value. The map, to make up for the 2-4 airfields, would be significantly larger; with upwards of 150km x 150km, maybe even up to 250km. This would also increase the battle timer back to 1hr at least, maybe more. To make up for the significant size of the map, there would be functioning radar sites or even AWACS, sending periodic markers on maps of detected enemy aircraft. These markers would be smaller to aircraft that were flying lower, making them smaller (but not significantly so) to see so as to avoid the lawnmower meta. Destroying these radar sites and AWACS would decrease tickets by a little, but would make it significantly more annoying to find remaining enemy aircraft. AI long range bombers (like B-52s, Tu-95s, nothing like supersonic ones) would take off, assisted by escort fighters and/or ECM aircraft. These long range bomber squadrons and AWACS wings would also allow for aircraft with more niche roles (like Interceptors, the Tornado ADV/F.3/F.3 Late) to shine, being able to *actually* intercept instead of flying around like glorified SL and RP targets. Of course, with a larger map, there would also *finally* be a need for aircraft to bring more fuel and choose engagements carefully instead of flying around like UFOs on minimum fuel. If you had low fuel, you'd have to conserve throttle or fly higher to get a bigger bang for your buck. I haven't put a significant amount of thought into this, but I still think it would be fun to see played out.

[@lukewhitehouse4103]

Giving the F-15 its historical 8 AIM-120 loadout was another egregious balancing decision akin to the KA-50 with it's 12 Vikhrs. US teams with F-15s just clean up, nothing can challenge them for the reasons above in the video. It's only going to get worse when the F/A-18 comes in "murder hornet" configuration. Sometimes in a game balance concessions should be made.

[@cleffl]

3:50 Yeah totally how a 90's missile should behave, I get that Gaijin needs to make ARH seekers that bad to fit it in warthunder environment but this is too damn hilarious.

[@mavor101]

Yea pretty funny seeing AMRAAMs go completely stupid against a target lazily flying away 30k ft above the ground with absolutely nothing behind them except blue sky. It's just hilarious.

[@MiGanFox3]

Love this video, in particular I love your comments about not over defending in the 1v1s. I do really enjoy that cat and mouse aspect of it. I do actually prefer the M2K and the J-10A in particular though for those jousting battles, the PL-12 and especially the MICA are so much better than the AIM-120 high off boresight that I find you can exert pressure so much better. Someone using the amraams has to expose themselves a lot more for those close range shots

[@notnurfcreanga]

the f14 problem is just the baby version of the f15 with spamraams

[@MrSukaBlyat]

It's actually vice versa, since F-15 at least have competitors with more Fox-3s, while F-14 has nothing that goes even close to it

[@sebulbableves]

​@@mikeyplayzwrld BAD F14 PLAYER ALERT

[@notnurfcreanga]

@@sebulbableves i dont see his comment did he cope abt smth and delete it?

[@conflictclips]

​The Mirage 2000C regularly faces the f14 and absolutely destroys it. The f16a, The Mirage 4000, These are all the other examples. It sucks at dogfights because most players don't know how to use the wings effectively and even if the f14 does all things right the Mirage 2000 still fucks it. The f14 is only good to kill people that are not paying attention and doesn't know basic bvr tactics.​@@MrSukaBlyat

[@reinni2968]

​@@conflictclipsYes, but does the m2k have insanely good bvr missiles? 6 of them to boot. No, it doesnt. F14A is still EXTREMELY capable against basically everything in a dogfight, but no shit, m2k beats it.

[@KaguyasBeat]

It's honestly incredible Gaijin doesn't implement different game modes people could choose to play. Like a top tier CQC type game mode that at most would only allow IR missiles if not guns only so people could do what they want to do with trying to dogfight with modern aircraft. Yea IRL things went very wrong if you end up merged like that but it's a game... I got back into it because I like the modern aircraft and systems so I don't necessarily mind it all the time. Would love to see RB EC for sure, and there is nothing wrong with them adding a dogfight mode for those that would like to do that.

[@mavor101]

They are just lazy AF. Making insane $$ by grinding out the same trash and using pre-existing IP given to them for free (ie. US/Russia/etc.. plane designs - all Gaijin are doing is recreating them in a computer game to profit off of them). Designing a fun game mode takes actual skill as a game designer and some work. Why bother when you can just roll in the dough by doing nothing?

[@SA80TAGE]

aren't there servers for that sort of thing (1v1 dogfights only) in custom battle?

[@KaguyasBeat]

@@SA80TAGE Might be but I doubt they are ranked where you can progress the tree you're playing and stuff. Needless to say I sure wasn't aware of it if so, so I'd doubt most players that explicitly complain about these things would know either cuz I'd imagine they'd want the larger scale/standard style battle just with the lack of the regularly expected gameplay for these types of advanced planes.

[@shadow_spark8788]

And also you need an aced crew, bc every turn on 0.7M and above, will turn game into black screen. I don't have aces/experts on F-15 (bc I wanna wait for Eagle with AESA radar) and it's nearly unplayable. Top tier jets need increased base g-tolerance yesterday.

[@Rayjacker]

It's usable if you opposite pitch well enough, but expert crew is basically required if you want any kind of sustained fight.

[@SuperTitoneli]

One of the most cracked things of top tier is the amount of players

[@rodneycook3674]

I hardly ever get EC maps anymore also.

[@Bad_man_bob]

> amount of red team players, Red planes just too weak at top tier.

[@SuperTitoneli]

@@Bad_man_bob ItS rEaLIsTiC BrO 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅

[@firestar7890]

You know how that Gripen chaffed your AIM-120A from like 6KM? Well I have a clip of a Gripen just randomly chaffing in a straight line, fooling my pl-12 from like 2km lol. I feel like the gripen is still broken in some ways (broken as in bugged).

[@y.kazayaki3681]

It ain't because the Gripen has the best position for countermeasures and the size of the countermeasures is irl accurate. Tbh the Gripen in game doesn't even have it's ghosting tech installed( where you'll see 5 gripens in radar but only 1 is on your screen) . They didn't even include human-machine collaboration technology to make most planes unable to take down the Gripen (it's a tech where eventually the Gripen will find your frequency of your vhf or rwr and bombard it with false targets and just ruin your targeting system. )

[@firestar7890]

@@y.kazayaki3681 Ok but then again, stuff like electronic warfare isnt really in war thunder at the moment, so if the gripen does get stuff like that (which it might not in arb as its more gameplay focused) other planes will likely get similar capabilities too at that point if it comes

[@redlionkeg6654]

120 is a game breaker. F15s can literally cruise up too launch them and not even notch simply because they are still too far for the other missiles to hit them back. Pathetic.

[@Vipbossguy]

I think ECM like radar jamming would be a great help to jets that aren’t so much meta like the F16C especially because these early ARH missiles have no HOJ capabilities

[@Cepakor28]

Wouldn't that not work in war thunder (at least with the current maps) because all jamming (almost) has a certain range where the jam will be too close for it to be effective?

[@MrLefXi]

Without watching the video first I´ll just drop my thoughts on AirRB. Air RB atm is just unfun cuz on high tier you will just get absolutly smacked if u dont have a jet with a lot of long range radar missles or havent unlocked it yet. I personally just unlocked the Gripen and I cant get it to work properly cuz I barely can research anything cuz its either the fack u only get RB74M IR missles and most of the time cant get to the fight in time because everyone just dead from long range radar missles or u just play the dodge the missle game because again everyone just spams Radar missles and its not like if u get a downtier u just farm everyone because on downtier u now get the F14 with the Fakour rockets which basically makes the downtier essentially the same as a normal match or an uptier. Its just a powercreep and it will only get worse over time because new jets cant be worse than the older one otherwise noone would play them

[@randomguy4616]

The more and more you get higher in BR you are starting to realize how big the difference is between fully stock vehicle compared to fully spaded ones not just in air rb but also tanks and ships as well it so painful 😅

[@MrLefXi]

@@randomguy4616 Top Tier tank is just not enjoyable. I mostly go to like rank 5 and sometimes 6

[@Adrianricky004]

The problem with top tier air rb is that it is literally arcade and sim is the true air rb

[@Okivaviko]

eh not sure | tried sim fired aim120 (i know how missile works) doing def doing aggrisive THE end im dying idk i have new sim player card stick in missile or its unbalance still dont like sims its always one sided games for example before all those updates in sim ground Jagtiger facing m4a3 sherman and you tell me its fair no its not fair because its a fking sim gaijin just love german and russia ground gaijin gives usa stuff its always bound to be suck(going to uptier) or (reduce performas) last few years nerfing m62 m82 rounds Cant pen it in front vs front shoot first CANT FKING PEN IS2 side cheeck armor or Tiger 2H Turret ARMOR it should pen and disable gunner at best it should disable cannon BUT NOOOO FKING GERMAN WEEBOOS Complaining complaining now cant kill big fellas till you got luck in your side or pay to win told you you suck or its just a pay to win game in disguise

[@Adrianricky004]

@@Okivaviko haven’t played ground sim just top tier air but I’m fairly good at dodging 120s just gotta go cold and wiggle around

[@limyarplane1991]

why would you play top tier sim when you can just play dcs though? its better more fun and more interesting to learn.

[@Adrianricky004]

@@limyarplane1991 oh I wish but I’m on ps5

[@lilcj2014]

​@@limyarplane1991dcs requires a manual and dozens of hours just to take off

[@JunkNVamps]

American mains: 27ERs are OP WE NEED AIM120s American mains: Missle spam sucks

[@YukarisGearReviews]

both can be true

[@JunkNVamps]

@YukarisGearReviews You can't expect to always balance a game by adding a completely new tool to the game. The R27er was only OP because it made long range BVR only viable for planes that had it. Atleast when you fired a fox 1 you had to commit to it if your missle didn't have IOG. Now you need counter measures and maneuverabillity; if you don't have both you very literally don't have the endurance to have a prolonged fox 3 dual let alone the other 5 headed your way

[@SeekerHead]

The R27ER ruled every aspect of missile fighting, not just long range BVR. It was superior in every single metric by a very large margin. The only saving grace was you could still reliably multipath back then.

[@JunkNVamps]

@SeekerHead ehhh not entirely every aspect not saying donuts video on sparrows "suffering" is gospel but the 27ER at short-mid range has too much energy so could have been dodged a lot. Reason why I say using the 27r/27er on the yak 141 when it was first added was just broken. Yes, multipathing was a big thing then but it wasn't a forsure kill. Notching/cold flying, then Full rudder+elevator when you couldn't notch, or multipath if you were able to(unless it's 1.0 pheonixes).

[@SeekerHead]

The R27ER is by far much harder to dodge at close range than the AIM7. Speed is what makes it hit the target. The “too much energy” thing is actually just the ER covering more distance before the seeker turns on. The 7F is slower so it has more time to react. This is extremely easy to negate by simply leading your launch. The 7F/M is easy to out-roll all of the time, especially up close. The ER is near impossible to out-roll past 2-3km

[@mfern45]

This is exactly why RB needs a good - even improved-upon - RB mode, with a custom lobby that allows for more flexibility - and so creativity, that will go into what kinds of lobbies we can make.

[@ryox82]

The only way to beat the snail is to stop feeding it. I've been spending more time trying to learn DCS and Vtol VR.

[@rubotok3703]

to do either of those you need Money

[@ryox82]

@rubotok3703 DCS cost of entry is zero and yes modules cost money but it's not pay to progress because the only progress is your skill.

[@rubotok3703]

@@ryox82 Joystick, track ir, vr, the TIME you have to put into it, the fact that the servers run like SHIIIIIT, it's not an accessible game like wt is. there isn't a competitor to war thunder unfortunately, none that strike that balance between sim and arcade while still being accessible

[@ryox82]

@rubotok3703 vtol vr is the in between for me. Yes you need pcvr, but cost of entry is lower these days. Every time you are tempted to spend on GE just put the money away for Sim things.

[@rubotok3703]

@@ryox82 what if you don't enjoy sims?

[@brandanreese123]

I don't know but this seems fun

[@ВячеславФролов-д7я]

Personally, I don't see the problem with fox3 gameplay. It's...unique, and that's great. Wt has a wide br bracket for jet dogfights, not-so-wide bracket with mixed fox1 bvr and dogfights, and a single br for purely missile slinging. Wt is not an ace combat

[@networkgeekstuff9090]

After reaching top tier my compensation mechanism was that I actually switched back to props and simAB for extra challenge and I am more happy than top tier AirRB. EDIT: Actually in simAB all the way to some 12.3 battles I had a blast clubbing F14s in a mirage as most players are just glued to their radar-rwr and if you know how to apreach them without getting noticed it is great satisfaction, the lack of "blue/red" icons on all enemies and actually managing to surprise someone is a great aspect of simAB.

[@SA80TAGE]

need to setup my vr and HOTAS controls before I attempt simAB, it's just such a goddamn pain mapping controls

[@networkgeekstuff9090]

@@SA80TAGE Start with props, there the control scheme is just a few buttons to setup. Also with props the VR+Hotas combo is much more powerfull since those games are more based on energy and close fighting where VR freedom to look around and better estimate distance/speed is great. Only after mastering that you move to jets/radar/missiles and you can map those controls later.

[@Cepakor28]

To play sim is the vr headset and hotas so necessary? I don't have either and I just can't engage a single aircraft in a dogfight because I know I will lose or black out, how do you people do it, spinning circles around me all day long and such?

[@Professor_Ramen]

That one fully spaded f15c in a full downtier with its 8 aim120s and 4 aim9ms

[@MapleThunder]

Hey man I've been watching you for a while now and I just want to let you know that you make absolute banger vids, don't let anyone else tell you otherwise

[@SeekerHead]

Thanks man 🤠

[@alexpayne2662]

Lol we went from Gripen and SU27 being game breaking to being shat on by this plane and generally AIM 120 spam

[@blessthismessss]

the mirage is actually evil in this type of fight too, since it not only has HMD & MICAs, but good flight performance ontop of that!! full real mirage feels legitimately like ace combat if you practice using it casually enough

[@kerotomas1]

A few days ago i had a game in my US F-4E where for some miracle i didn't get uptiered to the F14 spam shitfest and i had a nice long 8 kill win game with a 1v5 at the end. It was so satisfying and took a lot of effort to pull off but it was so enjoyable. Top tier, well i don't even want to talk about that lol.

[@dannyobject5581]

me when the f4f ice as germanys only "top tier"

[@obayalharbi82]

honestly i just couldnt with top tier air rb anymore as a russian main, 10km hms range and trash fm of my planes and just inferior missiles, i have to pray to get into a dogfight even though i have one of the worst fm of top (mig29smt) and it isnt exactly easy anymore to get into dogfights,

[@rodneycook3674]

They buffed the hmd and you can now take 8 r77.

[@obayalharbi82]

@@rodneycook3674 eh r77 is unreliable anyway, hate that missile. i dont think you can even utilize the new hmd range either.

[@rodneycook3674]

@@obayalharbi82 I’m using the derby on the new f16 and they have less range than r77. It works fine. Just fire within 18km

[@obayalharbi82]

@@rodneycook3674 i usually fire within 10-6km range, and go 10-15 games with only 1 kill

[@Jason-jb1vs]

I think the vertical ACM (you need to switch scan mode inside ACM mode on some plane) can somewhat replace hmd but it's definetly not optimal

[@prepareuranus8097]

im still only at 11.7 that late cold war era. its a had change from early cold war with just IR missiles and slow and heavy R- missiles. now the R-missiles are getting better, but tech is still quite low. il go into 12.0 and i can see getting true IWR- and a HMD is going to be a real learning curve, but this battle showed me what im going to need to practice on. when i do get to this point. im also a sim player. so this will be interesting. as thats the hardest challenge in sim, friend or foe identification..

[@ttvkyberwolf6659]

11:45 The F-15C MSIP II is missing the bol pods it went into msip to get (at least it has the amraams but the bol pods were a big part and quite important). It is SUPPOSED to have 880 countermeasures. But Gaijin can’t stand to see America have the best version of their own plane, let alone make it accurate (it is gimped in a lot of other ways too like thrust to weight and top speed).

[@Xfuera]

Top tier currently shows that all the fun was the journey getting there only to be let down.

[@danielwang6201]

They should be introducing notching, chaffing and multipathing resistant Fox3s soon, that way make the match more spreadout rather than a Fox2 range Fox3 clusterfuck, also need RB EC maps

[@Marco-cg7fb]

I’ve been playing since the game came out. And mostly been playing top tier jets. But recently a friend lured me into 6.7 tanks. And i must admit, it’s the most fun i’ve had in warthunder for a loooong while

[@SA80TAGE]

I was the same when I played Helicopters for the first time. Refreshing to switch it up between modes now and then.... plus it was great for grinding lions and crew points in a chill environment.

[@SkullH4T]

I started playing the f15jm after struggling with the su27sm and the difference is night and day. Reliable radar with fox 3 good missiles

[@Karter_Blackpaw]

The addition of Fox3's has made top-tier utterly unplayable. It's not fun getting sniped from 30+km from something you never saw coming, and that with the iranian F14 it has made it so much worse.

[@rodneycook3674]

That’s what your RWR is for

[@finkamain1621]

@@rodneycook3674 Not when you get put on Sinai for 7 matches in a row

[@illegalaryan823]

I actually love the top tier meta, Fox 3 warfare is fun for me. At least things like the F15 have counters (not great counters but counters) the F14 on the other hand...

[@spicynoodle-b9d]

my jet doesn't even have a fox missile or any arh missile but i am 13.0 so fun..

[@WurstWesen82]

There are three variations of the Fox acronym in use, with a number added to the end of Fox to describe the primary type of sensor the launched ordnance has. Fox one Indicates launch of a semi-active radar homing missile (such as the AIM-7 Sparrow) Fox two Indicates launch of an infrared homing missile (such as the AIM-9 Sidewinder) Fox three Indicates launch of an active radar homing missile (such as the AIM-120 AMRAAM or AIM-54 Phoenix)

[@chanka6221]

Mig 29?

[@rodneycook3674]

They really need to take the AI planes out of top tier.

[@mich421]

Every time I see F-15 and F-16 radars finding the enemy so quickly I understand that the SU 27's radar is not up to par plus the missiles are not that good

[@deannguyen1910]

get prepare for the AESA radar era :) You can't know when u get locked or just scanned

[@chrise2621]

Eagle on top. Im sad the f15a is facing the horde of fox3s, as i dont have the f15c yet.

[@razgriz4978]

My favorite part of the video is when Seek said "it's seekin' time," and his radar sought out all the enemy planes for his missiles.

[@michaelvigil5321]

So sad to see the game get degraded so heavily to make room for these top tier missile slingers. We all know what air combat is like irl, idk what people were expecting when they added shit like this. It would've been nice if Gaijin just separated this top tier crap with a hard BR cap like they did with the Abrams, Leo 2k, and T64B update. So many actually engaging gun fighters are obsolete and not worth playing because 16g-30g missile slingers.

[@Asspiss100]

1 aim 9m for those sneaky shots where you don't want them knowing where you are (radar off)

[@mrcaboosevg6089]

Needs to be some new top tier game modes, every single game goes the same. Just spam out fox 3s, hope for the best and then die because 13 missiles have been launched at you

[@flynntaggart8549]

i hate it when my skill of pressing the missile button is outmatched by opponent's skill of pressing the counter measure button

[@TheChickenJ]

Map allowing, I find flying low works fine and I enjoy top tier by going past everyone at the start and forcing a 1v1 or 1v2 with the “BVR guys” at the back. Works quite well. Sad that’s the only way to have any fun tho😔

[@Waffletractor]

I absolutely hate top tier, well I hate radar missile spam. It’s not fun the only time I thought top tier was fun was sim top tier maybe it’s the fact that you would almost never be double teamed or it’s the fear. If I was to play air rb I would just play the US f-100 because there isn’t really any radar missiles

[@ivan5595]

War thunder isn't set up for these technological leaps; the stock grinding, the unbalanced BR and compression, makes it extremely unbalanced; it's not like you can "just flank" an Abrams with a Ho-Ro.

[@williamkwl6153]

​@@ivan5595Why flank when the Abrams will come to you

[@finkamain1621]

@@ivan5595 There's also no cover on these maps. Whenever I play top tier I almost never get City, Southeastern City, or Mysterious Valley... all which have mountain cover or other forms of cover. I get Golan Heights so many times in a row I just hop off the game for the day because every jet in the match is basically an F-14 with AIM120s when there's no cover. Can't flank either on those maps

[@Playboi2k]

ngl your decal is the best one i seen

[@sankyu3950]

Its sad and depressing and its all about the dopamine when playing top tier

[@SA80TAGE]

that's.... what all games are about 🤷‍♂

[@theballingboi5360]

I wish there was a version of top tier without the bvr stuff. I kinda just hate BVR combat and arh spam, i get that it's realistic, but it just doesn't excite me the same way a 2 minute ling 1 v 1 gunfight in 50s jets does. I don't care how long the queue is, I just want the exciting fights back, because BVR doesn't feel rewarding when you get a kill and extremely annoying whem you die. At least if you lose an extended gunfight, you can just be content with the fact the other guy is better, and when you hit an insane gun shot it feels great. Idk man, top tier is just insufferable to play.

[@SeekerHead]

It's not even realistic. These weapon systems were never deisgned to be in 16v16 warfare. Any real air combat with modern air forces happens at an exceptionally small scale. Jets are more expensive now and more capable, less of them are used. I'd really like to see some 8v8 matchmaking.

[@theballingboi5360]

@@SeekerHead that's also true, I just think if it's already unrealistic, let it be even more unrealistic (not arcade, that's a whole different level of brain rot)

[@farmcat9873]

I just turn that crap down and use the RWR for my Eyes even though the sound of whining and dinging is such a lovely sound cause I like to here it even after the headphones are I still turn that crap down to as low as possible. Not gonna lie but if I want to sling missiles across the map I will go listen to it on DCS where its not 16 vs 16 and more towards the realistic side of air combat for modern aircraft. Hey good video I sure miss that sound.

[@pikapika2-7273]

great vid seek. Once the amraam patch dropped i basically quite top tier for good even though I barely played the game now I only do props and cold war era jets when I do play. Anyways this video made get an idea. Could you do a top tier bvr 1v1 video it can be both instructional and for fun. I remember you did a f14 bvr fight video a while ago and it was really fun to watch I'd love to see you do another one

[@PolarisCentuari]

vid on playing fox1 planes like the su27 in ARHM lobbies next?

[@manusavior4120]

flight performance still matters, try going defensive in a Flanker, first time you turn around you lose all your speed and cant do shit anymore

[@SeekerHead]

I lost all my speed at around 8:00 that entire fight happened on no speed. That’s what a fight between 2 competent players will devolve into. Flanker would be even better offensively bc R77, but weaker defensively bc less chaff

[@manusavior4120]

try flying the SU-27SM, for a video that is, i want to see that. Brother i have top tier on almost every nation except israel, and tried the japanese F-15, the one with aamrams. flankers cant compete in a dogfight

[@SeekerHead]

I too, have all top tiers since it’s my job and all. Flanker is without a doubt the weakest in a dogfight, but that’s not what the video is about, nor what 8:00 is about, nor what top tiers is about. You don’t need good dogfight performance to be defensive in a fox 3 1v1

[@nu-7316]

Atleast i know what my Gripen Gameplay gonna look like 9.0 for now

[@justmarc2015]

Every time I criticize top tier in game chat, people get really mad at me. Then I come here, and everyone feels exactly like me after all. I think they're just mad at the truth.

[@buttcracker]

Was playing low tier a bit ago and people were talking about top tier in the chat and I said it wasn’t worth it and suddenly had the whole lobby of level 6s telling me nuh uh it is worth it

[@bananomet4052]

F-15C feels also very smooth to play in ASB. Very good overall handling and a decent radar. Personally I don´t even play ARB anymore because of the 16v16 thing. Currently have 3:1 K/D which is not bad IMO. The only other plane I have higher K/D in ASB is the Me 262 A-1A/U1 with 6:1 xD

[@HalIOfFamer]

The game would be so much better if we progressed the airframes to better performance but kept missiles at rear aspect very close range only.

[@alextonev3017]

when I got my japanese F-15 amraam spammer I was very underwhelmed by the gameplay. I wasnt even doing bad my k/d in it is like 1.8 but its just so boring to get most kills because the enemy got unlucky with multi-pathing or something

[@mavor101]

Haven't played the game in over 5 months and feeling pretty good about it, haha. :D

[@mr808stunna]

as a top tier ussr player, i struggle to get within my missiles' maximum range before getting spamraamed

[@INeatFreak]

F-15C should actually have infinite countermeasures like the Gripen but Gaijin refuses to add it's flare BOL pods -_-

[@ReviveHF]

I really wish Gaijin would add new PVE modes for top tier, I mean they could take inspiration from Insurgency Sandstorm. PVP modes are getting very stale.

[@FM-hw8yv]

Considering fox3s are basically worthless when i fire them in my F4F ICE aswell as the ICE General insanely bad Performance I wont touch air rb until there is anything at top tier i need to grind

[@doorknobsoup]

This is actually the combat i've wanted at top tier, because I came to warthunder wanting a casual milsim. Theres plenty of nuance and there's plenty of skill involved in being a better 13.7 player, its a REAL fight (and I dont just mean in the sense of it being realistic), so its not boring. If you dont like that gameplay, you have 12.3 br's were you can dogfight till your hearts content.

[@bobbylight5114]

Make CHAFF overpowered again!!!

[@sirius_solaris]

Honestly, I said it when Apex Predators dropped and i'll say it again. I don't know what players were expecting? Sure there's a PLETHORA of external problems in top-tier ARB from the small maps to the multipathing physics and the horrid reality of the tech tree balance, however, for top tier gameplay, i don't understand why people are so mad. How could you possibly expect dogfighting to be the main gameplay loop with modern fighters, they're literally designed to stay away from dogfights for as long as possble until its a last resort. The main combat of these fighters IS MISSILE COMBAT, BVR is more than 'fire missile, turn away, your missile misses, you dodge missile, repeat'. There's more minor tactics you can use to guarantee kills or even coop with teammates on who to shoot at. Hell, at WVR combat you can bait with IR where you give your opponent 50/50s. Sure it isn't as dramatic as low-tier combat and I'm not saying i like top-tier more, but truly what did you expect?

[@No_Feelings]

Way to go BVR LARPers, you killed the furball! Now instead of dying to random IR missiles, you're doomed if you have a russian HMD or less than 120 countermeasures. We traded one purgatory for another.

[@ClassicGamingPortal]

Man wish you could train me in high br combat I struggle a lot notching missiles

[@Dogey089]

Honestly the only jet gameplay is rank 5 jets. Very basic to no missles and it still takes skill

[@tacotvgaming6639]

I don't know what the snail is gonna do once we get to next gen fox 3

[@sonwig5186]

Luckily I do enjoy rwr sounds. Honestly I can't even hear them anymore.

[@Null24]

Can we see a similar video for the Su27SM?

[@mikeinmelbourne9491]

And this is why I don't do top tier air... tanks are OK, but for me the game below 10.3 is great with mid-tier WW2 the best.

[@antonisashitteragain6993]

Some vehicles needs to be the punching bag so other players have fun :)

[@Tovello]

I prefer to use the IWSM sound mod, it makes the RWR a lot less annoying.

[@ricofighter]

i'd decrease the team size still, even the 12v12 on smaller maps is too much. Ideally 10v10 on EC maps imo. But to the gameplay - launch missiles and go cold, that is pretty much modern jet combat in a nutshell, i'm not really sure what people expected. It's what the missiles and jets are designed to do - bvr combat. Most people play top tier jets just because the jets look cool and cause it's top tier, but in reality they don't enjoy bvr and then they cry about it that it's boring. - if this is you, go down in tier to have more "fun" EDIT: multipath is supposed to be unreliable, like it is in real life, the way it is now, it lets you survive sometimes if you fly low, as it should, the worst meta was when multipath worked 100% of the time and clueless people who knew nothing about missiles got to be invincible

[@e_sd]

please stop advertising GE for WT as it violates War Thunder EULA and has gotten many people's accounts banned. I do not want to see my favorite content creators also get banned for advertising a product like this

[@plat216]

youre making a big mistake by not using manual radar target-designator-cursor slewing; i would argue that this is far more important than having 19km helmet mounted cueing ACM as they essentially serve the same function: easily pointing your radar in a desired direction without having to maneuver (i bind my slew TDC controls to Alt + WASD and Alt + EQ for elevation, so it's very quick and natural) In comparison to HMD ACM, manual TDC slewing combined with TWS provides far more range and awareness, and you can fire your weapons as soon as your radar receives a return, rather than acquisition it is extremely handy in a situation where you have a rough estimate of where the opponent is, but not precise enough to pick them up with HMD ACM in this fight at 7:00, if you had slewed you radar to the proper elevation angle, more than likely you would've been able to pick out your target without having to point you nose up, and counter launched your amraam

[@Datroflshopper]

The most fun br is 7.7-8.7, followed by 2.7-3.7

[@starliner2498]

I'd argue even 10.3 to 11.0 is also a fun bracket cause everyone has decent (not OP) missiles and CM to defend themselves

[@mrcaboosevg6089]

Everything outside of Fox 3 spam is fun

[@theballingboi5360]

@@Datroflshopper 9.3 is great in the Ariete, when you win you're a giga chad, when you lose, well, you don't have missiles and flares, what are you supposed to do

[@raphael_banane]

Su27sm with 12 missles💀💀 final boss of missle spam

[@IamWartinder]

Ir missiles just aren’t as useful he said before using an IR missile to secure a kill….

[@RoachEatsVipers]

and this is why i dont see range as an important stat for fox3, range doesnt matter anymore and the fight at around 8:30 wouldve ended sooner if one of you had R77 or Micas, they ARE the better missiles for these engagments

[@noahg1236]

Okay that dawn map, what are your graphics settings cause I need them

[@robanson32]

I feel like Gaijn would have to really f-‘d up the balance if the F-15C wasn’t head and shoulders above the next best plane. It’s simulating the mid 90’s early 2000’s currently and that was a time of extreme US dominance. Eurofighter and the rafale should push the pendulum back a little bit towards other nations. Only issue is those planes have Aesa

[@rafaelsoto6109]

Well, by the time the Rafale and the Eurofighter was out, we had the F-22

[@skillquestion3482]

@@rafaelsoto6109 🤓