Toranaga is HIM! Shōgun 1x2 Reaction "Servants of Two Masters"

[@dana8503]

See the imperialist games didn't work against the Japanese as effectively as others, because technologically the Japanese were mostly on par, but also, the Japanese were also imperialists in the region, with a record of that even in 1600. They both really are mirrors of each other from different parts of the world.

[@joshshave7833]

Both brutal cultures forged in fires. I've always thought that the differences between China and Japan mirror that of the Catholic and Protestant countries. China and the Catholics claimed not only that their religions were OK with conquest, but that it was ordained by Heaven and God, whereas Japan and the Protestants used the age old adage of "might makes right." One thing that's really stood out to me so far is that all cultures are shown as being ruthless. The Spanish and Portuguese are using subterfuge and assassinations to claim entire continents, the British and Dutch are killing anyone that could remotely be considered an enemy, and the Japanese are domineering and ruthless to their own people and have ambitions on the mainland. And perhaps interestingly enough, they all share the same regard for foreigners: They are barbarians.

[@dana8503]

@@joshshave7833 they were all ruthless. But they saw the other as being uncivilised because they didn't subscribe to their own particular cultural ruthlessness. Except the guy who bailed that man alive, he's just a sick psychopath who goes above and beyond.

[@skyworm8006]

Technologically they were no where near eachother, in literally everything. Hence the importance of trade with Europeans and getting/incorporating European knowledge.

[@dana8503]

@@skyworm8006 they were behind in ship building. But the industrial revolution didn't happen for a couple of hundred years so they were on par with almost everything else. Japan had resources problems with certain minerals, I guess that's partially why they colonised other areas. England did have mines to kick-start their Empire.(it's no coincidence thar the city that was the centre of the industrial revolution was in the midst of coal mining land)

[@MW_Asura]

Everyone was acting based on their own interests

[@atomictsarina4378]

At that time Japanese lords could have only one legal wife but as many official concubines as they wished and the kids from those concubines were their legal children. It was common to have concubines way younger that the man himself :)

[@BractosCrash]

Africans were bathing far less 🤣

[@overthewebb]

Europe wasn't trying to think things over Europe had warships and guns Japan had none. Japanese leaders wanted the knowledge of European guns and Cannons

[@skyworm8006]

Most of his crew is Dutch, who were conquered by Spain and at the time of this show are fighting a war of independence and likely know the brutality of civilian massacres and religious persecution firsthand. England had no colonial possessions to speak of at the time.

[@overthewebb]

@@skyworm8006 I am well aware of the history I don't see how this matters to my point above

[@johncmousley]

barbarian weapons is such a funny term to refer to european firearms. Gunpower was invented and first used in east asia; but all the constant warfare in europe really jumpstarted just how dangerous a technology they would become. So by the time of the show western weapons are being exported to the original inventors

[@dylanblue2271]

Another good reaction. My only criticism, and please take this in the spirit intended, is that you're not making enough effort to see the story from the characters' perspective as cultures meet in 16th century Japan. You're viewing everything from a 21st century perspective. Yes, the Europeans were brutal. So was Japan. They were colonialists in their region.

[@RandalReid]

"Yes, the Europeans were brutal. So was Japan. They were colonialists in their region" Goryeo/Korea would agree. Oh and the Christians during the Edo period, their death weren't quick.

[@MW_Asura]

This show is history. If you see history as black and white and you'll fail to understand it

[@Celequendi]

Love your reactions! Locking forward to going on this journey with you. I think the lady he was joking with is his official wife and the pregnant woman is probably one of his concubines. And Toronaga is descended from the Minowara clan

[@nont18411]

The pregnant lady was probably the heir’s mother’s sister that the council mentioned in the first ep

[@Celequendi]

@@nont18411 the heir's mother's sister isn't in Osaka with them. She was left behind in Toronaga's castle. Ishido used the heir's mother being in Toronaga's castle in Edo as an excuse to say he's trying to break the peace and summoned him to Osaka. That's why Toronaga says she is no more a hostage in his castle than he is in Osaka when the Ishido questions him about it in ep 1

[@M.Hiro79]

Toranaga is everything.

[@71sorceress]

good theory on the heir being Toranaga's son the thought didn't even cross my mind and I think Toranaga definitely did plan ahead with his whole spy network especially since he knew these other regents where going to be coming for him a year ago

[@billycovingtonjr1717]

I enjoyed the first two episodes of this show , the time traveling that they show is absolutely amazing. They show how treacherous people were in that time , and misconceptions are the norm. This has been a great show so far. And have you noticed how sneaky the Spaniard is in the show?

[@plastic_vicar]

I don't think the Taiko's plan for the five regentsd was a backip plan. I think when he asked Toranaga to be sole regent, he was testing him. Did he have the wisdom and foresight to see why that would be a bad move that would lead to the death of his son. Because he refused and foresaw how that would destabilize things, the Taiko was confident that Toranaga would do as he asked and protect the heir

[@jalcome4201]

i think ishido could come around knowing they have a common enemey to vanquish. man yearns for the role of general back, but ofc, under togonaras rule ;)

[@AishaWilson]

Possibly, but I think Ishida has beef with Toranga that goes beyond the regency. He seems the type to want to take Toranaga out first before going after the Catholics

[@nont18411]

Could Toranaga be considered as a DILF?

[@Waffalish]

fellow human, he is practically the definition of that. (i dont remember if he has a son but idc lol, DILF confirmed) EDIT: Son mentioned! DILF is canon!